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  1. #1
    All fat, all the time.
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    gorilla tape fail....

    So my rear wheel started losing air last week.... No big deal, been about a year since I taped it up....
    Pulled it all apart, cleaned the rim, re taped, fresh sealant.
    Within 30 mins it's leaking out the rim holes...
    Wtf?
    Two layers of tape.....

    About the same time I'm messing with rear, the front starts to leak out of the rim holes too....

    By this time I'm done with it, no time for a bike ride, grrrr....

    Went to lbs, grabbed a couple 24"-2.75 tubes with removable core, split tube it is.

    Held air perfectly last night and no issues today riding 30 miles...

  2. #2
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    My experience with Gorilla Tape is it needs a few days under pressure from a tube before it fully adheres to the rim. If liquid gets under it before then, the tape slips around.

  3. #3
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    split toob seems like the way for us anti-fiddlefvckers to go.

    jisch as been kind with info sharing.

    rog

  4. #4
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    I think the rim needs to be really REALLY clean before you apply tape. I always drench mine in simple green...then take isopropyl alcohol and wipe it down real good. Let the iso flash off, then apply tape.

    But, I am split tube now, and won't ever go back...EVARRRRR!!!!

  5. #5
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    Yep, it just works.
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  6. #6
    bigger than you.
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    Tried the Gorilla tape, had similar results. Then, i figured out that rim strip for Clown Shoes, just might work to keep Marge Lites airtight. Yep, it works swell, no tape needed.
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  7. #7
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    Is going to try that, no lbs had that rim strip in stock....

    Only thing that bothers me, when you let the air out, the beads pop off easily with the split tube....
    With the tape, even after all air is out, you really have to force the bead off....
    Dunno, maybe after its been on for a while it'll permanently seal better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Tried the Gorilla tape, had similar results. Then, i figured out that rim strip for Clown Shoes, just might work to keep Marge Lites airtight. Yep, it works swell, no tape needed.

  8. #8
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    gorilla tape fail....

    Who has the best tutorial on this method?


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  9. #9
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    What's a split tube?

  10. #10
    Loud hubs save lives!
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    Quote Originally Posted by newmarketrog View Post
    split toob seems like the way for us anti-fiddlefvckers to go.
    Except it's a one shot deal and you have to toss the tube when you change tires. (Unless someone has come up with a method to reuse or tape a split-tube setup???)

  11. #11
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    The split tube in my front wheel has been used in 3 different rims with three different tires over the last 9 months or so. It's got two holes in it, but it's still holding air - I tried to make sure the holes were above the rim, I guess it worked.

  12. #12
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    If you don't trim it too closely, you can reuse them, I have, numerous times. Just need a little extra care is all, no more time spent than all that taping, overnight tube pressurizing, etc.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  13. #13
    Loud hubs save lives!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    If you don't trim it too closely, you can reuse them, I have, numerous times. Just need a little extra care is all, no more time spent than all that taping, overnight tube pressurizing, etc.....
    Interesting.. I'd guess around a 1/4" extra on the edges? Might be worth a shot, but as Shark mentioned it's reealllly nice having that bead seal, just for ease of working on the tire.

  14. #14
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    gorilla tape fail....

    I've been split tube for two years on a MLr. I run 5 lbs of air with no problem. I let the air out to add Stan's with the injector and the bead stays seated.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Is going to try that, no lbs had that rim strip in stock....

    Only thing that bothers me, when you let the air out, the beads pop off easily with the split tube....
    With the tape, even after all air is out, you really have to force the bead off....
    Dunno, maybe after its been on for a while it'll permanently seal better?
    I had to special order mine, it was worth the wait. The bead doesn't unseat easily and it can be reused. I have 1400 miles and 2 sets of tires on mine since February.
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  16. #16
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    I run gorilla tape without any issues. But it takes proper prep. I use brake cleaner first then ISO alcohol. Never had a seal issue so far and I mount and add sealant right away.
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  17. #17
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    Yup I cleaned the rim as well....who knows, maybe my roll of tape it defective....

    I'll be curious if I let the pressure out after a while, if the beads stay-put.
    When I removed the core to inject sealant, they fell off after first install. With the tape, there was always the "pop", then you could let pressure out right away and they stuck.

    Have 2 good rides on them so far with split tube, no leaks, no burps, no problems.

  18. #18
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    I've been using the Clown Shoe strip method on Marge Lites for nearly a year and no problems at all.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Yup I cleaned the rim as well....who knows, maybe my roll of tape it defective....
    With Gorilla tape, you don't know what you'll get.

    There's so many reports across a wide range of applications where Gorilla tape works for one instance, and fails for the other in the identical environment with the identical materials (same batch/source) and identical prep (in some cases, literally 20' apart). It looks like there are far too many reports for this to be an occasional bad roll/batch.

    Unlike the majority of quality tapes, "Gorilla" won't publish data for tensile strength nor for adhesion. Independent tests have tensile strength varying from 40 to 58 lbs. per inch, and adhesion between 45 to 80 oz. per inch. In an area where an engineer will decide between a tape with 48 oz. adhesion vs. one with 52 oz. adhesion, 45 to 80 is a huge variance. Is this a QA problem, different standards in different factories/countries, or does it suffers degradation due to varying conditions or age (be it in transit, storage, retail shelf or once in the consumers' hands)?

    The anecdotal evidence for Gorilla Tape seems to be:
    • higher heat, higher rate of failure,
      (both when heated, and once cooled back down)
    • if you've got a fail using Gorilla Tape, if your surface prep is good, look to trying a different roll of Gorilla tape from a different source
    • or go for a different tape. Tapes that publish their results and the tape performs to spec.

    Given the variety of tapes with published specs, there has to be a better choice.
    And some will publish their adhesion to Al, not just to steel.

  20. #20
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    I agree with that - I tried two different rolls of Gorilla tape on my Specialized Fatboy rims, I cleaned the rims with soapy water, then alcohol. I tried Gorilla tape three times with those two rolls and it failed every time. When I pulled it apart, the tape came off the rim with ease, it did not adhere well at all, never mind being air tight. Before the last attempt I lightly sanded the rims with 400 grit sandpaper and it still did nothing, the tape peeled off really easily - even off the rim strip! Perhaps two bad rolls of tape? I don't know.

  21. #21
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    gorilla tape fail....

    What is the aversion to the ghetto(split tube) method? I've had my ML'r set up this way for 2 years and run pressures as low as 3 psi. With the Stan's injector it's easy to top off the sealant.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecanoe View Post
    What is the aversion to the ghetto(split tube) method?...
    I don't think there's an aversion to one way over another, just that different methods & materials will resonate more with one person than another.

  23. #23
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    Use Tyvek tape for house wraps. It weighs nothing and works, been using for years. It is designed to be water and weather resistant. Gorilla tape is heavy and the adhesive is thick and gooey, which lets stans in. I have used gorilla tape in the past and it works, if you put enough layers on. I only run 1 layer of the Tyvek and it is money.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    Use Tyvek tape for house wraps. It weighs nothing and works, been using for years. It is designed to be water and weather resistant. ... I only run 1 layer of the Tyvek and it is money.
    Interesting.
    - Thickness: 3.0 mil: polypropylene film 1.4 mil, acrylic adhesive backing 1.6 mil.
    - Steel peel adhesion 40 oz/inch, so at 2.82" wide that's 112 oz per inch of length.
    - Will withstand temperature extremes from -40F to 220F
    - Tensile strength is only 27 lbs/inch, so possibly not the greatest for handling rim cutouts on it's own.

    1strongone1, did your experience with this include rim cutouts?

    Showing as available in only 2.82" wide. Shame, as it would be nice to lay sealing tape in one strip for a 100mm rim.

    As the house wrap is supposed to be wind proof & water proof, but allow some water vapor through, they give a rating for the Tyvek Tape.
    Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate: (MVTR @ 100F and 90% Relative Humidity), 0.3 g/100 in/24 hr
    But as it's worked for 1strongone1, I assume we don't have to worry about what that means...

    The leading edge tapes and similar are available in 8, 12 and 18 mil: polyurethane film with acrylic adhesive, 2", 3", 4" and 6".

  25. #25
    Laramie, Wyoming
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    I read these threads and wonder why people have issues with Gorilla tape. I've set up a lot of wheels for myself and others, and ridden a lot of miles on them. Some ideas; I always run the tape to the outside of the rim and trim, I pull the tape as tight as humanly possible, and any seams overlap at least an inch. If done this way, the tape doesn't even have to adhere to the rim.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    I read these threads and wonder why people have issues with Gorilla tape. ...
    Once the rim is clean & grease free, and a known proven application technique is used, there's still inconsistent results - when you're using Gorilla Tape. Which is the point.

    And not just geto-tubeless, but a wide range of applications that gets inconsistent results when using Gorilla Tape. Tests of Gorilla Tape show inconsistent results.

    Which leads to: just because each person buys Gorilla Tape, the anecdotal evidence is this doesn't mean they're holding an identical material with identical properties in their hand. Some do fine, but may get a bad roll on occasion. Others living in different areas (different supply chain?) are much more familiar with mediocre or failed results, making it nothing more than a thick and variably performing duct tape that's unreliable.

    What's unknown is the source(s) of the difference. Back the speculation in my post below about possible causes of the variance across rolls of Gorilla Tape.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    Once the rim is clean & grease free, and a known proven application technique is used, there's still inconsistent results - when you're using Gorilla Tape. Which is the point. ...
    1. I've read many posts of people who don't use actual Gorilla brand tape.
    2. I've never cleaned my rims and it doesn't matter if the tape is ran to the outside of the rim.
    3. I've set up and helped others set up a lot of wheels with very consistent results, as in, I've never had the tape fail.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    1. I've read many posts of people who don't use actual Gorilla brand tape.
    2. I've never cleaned my rims and it doesn't matter if the tape is ran to the outside of the rim.
    3. I've set up and helped others set up a lot of wheels with very consistent results, as in, I've never had the tape fail.
    1. I'm referring to those using Gorilla Tape, not other tapes.
    2. Cleaning and/or degreasing rims is one of the standard attempts to make things work with Gorilla Tape (and other tapes) when the install fails. Sometimes it helps, some.
    3. I assume you're using Gorilla Tape that you got from your same geographical area, so likely from the same supply/production chain.

    I would expect that your consistent results are due to: you've got a good supply chain with a good QA Gorilla Tape, along with your proven technique and experience.

    So many failures using Gorilla Tape do not become successes, even with addressing cleaning and technique. In the end, the common denominator is, somehow, the Gorilla Tape is failing.

  29. #29
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    But other versions have the same issue. Stans etc all has failures, much of it is prep: cleanliness, temperature, application method. Then wheel not taking to the tape easily for whatever reason. Then adhesive not getting along with sealant, actual tape failure etc. I have ordered a roll of gorilla tape via amazon (grabbed it since I was ordering something anyway) and bought from local store. Same quality, same product, from 2 completely different regions. That just comes to bad luck and it happens no matter what u buy.
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  30. #30
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    What you're saying is not inconsistent with what many have observed, nor with what I'm saying. We don't know if it's a regional supply issue, or a QA variance between batches. The end result is you don't know for sure what performance you'll get.

    There are multiple failure points reported for geto tape tubeless, but once they're all addressed or accounted for, there are way too many failures left where the last thing remaining is Gorilla Tape.
    The performance of that tape is too variable.
    Tests of that tape are hugely variable. Which is consistent with the practical results.

    This is for a wide variety of uses. So much so that it would be odd if we didn't see variable results for its tubeless use.

    Perhaps part of the high failure rate is due to people looking for a "stronger" tape for a demanding application and using a consumer tape, when for superior and consistent results they should be looking at the commercial/professional tapes.

  31. #31
    ogarajef@luther.edu
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    I have 2" and 3" rolls. The rims do have cut outs, I use colored duct tape with the adhesive side facing inward to cover the cutouts.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gorilla tape fail....-image-1.jpeg  

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  32. #32
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    I will be trying something else next time I have to tape a rim, hopefully next time will be a different rim (for the bucksaw build)....if I only have to tape up spoke holes, might go back to good ol' stan's tape, or strapping tape I've heard works well too.
    Gorilla tape is going in the toolbox for anything other than sealing rims from now on haha.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    ...2. Cleaning and/or degreasing rims is one of the standard attempts to make things work with Gorilla Tape (and other tapes) when the install fails. Sometimes it helps, some.
    3. I assume you're using Gorilla Tape that you got from your same geographical area, so likely from the same supply/production chain.

    I would expect that your consistent results are due to: you've got a good supply chain with a good QA Gorilla Tape, along with your proven technique and experience.

    So many failures using Gorilla Tape do not become successes, even with addressing cleaning and technique. In the end, the common denominator is, somehow, the Gorilla Tape is failing.
    I don't believe I've ever degreased or cleaned a rim. The easiest way to eliminate that being an issue is to run the tape to the outside of the rim and trim it. I'm not the only one who does this and it works well.

    As for the "regional" quality control of Gorilla tape, I can't imagine that over the course of time that any one geographical region would get one quality of tape and another consistently get a lessor grade.

    From the occasional pictures of how people are trying their tubeless conversions on here, I would say that the problems are due to faulty design more than tape failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    What you're saying is not inconsistent with what many have observed, nor with what I'm saying. We don't know if it's a regional supply issue, or a QA variance between batches. The end result is you don't know for sure what performance you'll get.

    There are multiple failure points reported for geto tape tubeless, but once they're all addressed or accounted for, there are way too many failures left where the last thing remaining is Gorilla Tape.
    The performance of that tape is too variable.
    Tests of that tape are hugely variable. Which is consistent with the practical results.
    ...
    Perhaps part of the high failure rate is due to people looking for a "stronger" tape for a demanding application and using a consumer tape, when for superior and consistent results they should be looking at the commercial/professional tapes.
    Method, method, method. The tape is plenty strong, that isn't an issue.
    Last edited by alphazz; 07-18-2014 at 12:06 PM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    As for the "regional" quality control of Gorilla tape, I can't imagine that over the course of time that any one geographical region would one quality of tape and another consistently get a lessor grade.

    From the occasional pictures of how people are trying their tubeless conversions on here, I would say that the problems are due to faulty design more than tape failure.

    Method, method, method. The tape is plenty strong, that isn't an issue.
    Regional: I agree. As sales occur, the supply sources would be adjusted around. We don't know if there's multiple factories, countries, shipping methods (slow boat vs fast need, etc.), storage conditions/seasonal, time on retail shelf, etc..

    Faulty Design: yup. Seen a number of times. But once that is addressed, you're left a number of failures with a common denominator. A tape known for variable adhesion strength.

    Strength: I agree that the tape is plenty strong enough (subject to applications with cutouts, their size, with/without rimstrips, etc.).

    But the tape's adhesion strength varies, over a very wide range. As the strength quality of the adhesive varies, what other properties of the adhesive may be varying? What's observed could be indicating a contribution from a variable susceptibility to the sealer. Back to tape production QA, which factory, etc., different suppliers, and so on.

  35. #35
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    When going split tube, what are the preferred tubes to use?
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  36. #36
    All fat, all the time.
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    Qtubes (kenda printed on the tube itself) seem to be good, they have removable cores in the valves so you can refresh sealant easily.
    24x2.4-2.75 is what I found locally.


    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    When going split tube, what are the preferred tubes to use?

  37. #37
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    MargeLites with ML rimstrips and Clownshoe rimstrip worked well for ne too. After several attempts of taping the wheel (although the front taped well with Tough Duct Tape - Transparent).
    To sit the bead it helped me out a lot when I scrubbed the rim and bead with soapy water. I used the inner tube to sit em..popped one side, remove the innertube...etc.

    What I noticed with my taped front wheel is that it leaks when I put too much pressure. I was thinking that Stans will work better if the pressure is high, but it seems to be the opposite. Try taping it and inflating it to about 15-20psi and let the liquid do its thing.

    as soon as my front wheel start to loose air i'll do the ML+CS rimstrip.

    Good luck!

    P.s. Several brewskies also helped with my patience. HA!

  38. #38
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    I had a Gorilla tape fail on some brand new HED carbon wheels today. Front wheel flat after holding 15psi for almost a week. I re inflated and it was leaking from the spoke holes so I took it apart. Very little adhesion to the alcohol cleaned new rim and it came right off. I had purchased a roll of the red Tyvek style house rap tape and decided to give it a try. This seemed to work much better to the re cleaned wheel and since it is thin I double wrapped it. I could stretch this tape on much better and tighter than the Gorilla tape. It sealed instantly and I will update in a week. I probably would have tried the split tube but I do not think it is doable on these because the tires fit the bead pocket so tight there may not be enough room. The split tube is also heavy at 200+ g with Gorilla tape at about 45g and Tyvek type about half that. I also read about aircraft leading edge tape which has similar properties but is much thicker and stronger than the red tape.

  39. #39
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    I have had issues with Gorilla tape on many different wheels... though it still comes standard issue with ENVE tubeless wheels.

    If you use tape the full width of the rim, like 25-30mm tape on a rim that it can be stretched on and up both bead walls a little bit its usually not too bad... but Stans eventually gets below it and un-sticks it, causing failure into the spoke nipple chamber.

    Here's a crude drawing that I have had failures with Gorilla on quite a few occasions, the overlap point when you have done 1 full wrap, the second wrap steps up onto the start of the first and leaves a tiny gap as you are stretching the crap out of it. Overlap by 6" and stop stretching it for a further 4" before sticking the end down. I have found that Stans fluid and Gorilla glue doesn't make a good match and the Stans will eventually get under the end.
    If you finish the wrapping under tension, it will peel back and eventually fail.

    Black = Rim, Red = Gorilla tape.

    gorilla tape fail....-untitled.jpg

    I have had better luck with 3M 8898, now Ive gone full circle and am back with 3M Filament tape as I don't need the width anymore.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    ...I have had better luck with 3M 8898, now Ive gone full circle and am back with 3M Filament tape as I don't need the width anymore.
    I've only found 8898 listed up to 2.83" wide, but at 160 lbs/in it's got tons of tensile strength, and on steel it's listed at 65 oz/in adhesion. I haven't found a spec for Al.
    Is it like 8959 that's only listed up to 2.95 inches wide, but is occasionally available at 3, 4 and 6 inch from some of the commercial suppliers?

    Which of their filament tapes are you finding works?
    I'm intrigued by the suitability of filament tapes for the filaments providing extra ridges for extra pressure for sealing.

    I have some 220 lbs bi-filament tape with an adhesion of 90/in, but I'm concerned the cross filaments may provide a leak path.

  41. #41
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    I am kinda out of this conversation on fat rims as embarrassingly... I dont own a set of alu wheels anymore, I have 3 x 29er carbon sets (4th on the way) and 2 x carbon Fatty sets

    I spent many hours... actually full days trying to get the best tubeless fat setup, it was just easier to go carbon rims and the price difference is nothing really when you have to buy wide tapes and rims strips.

    The nextie fat rims only need the spoke access holes covered to achieve tubeless, so 3 wraps of 25mm Filament tape sorts that out. The 29" rims are basically 25mm spaced, 2 wraps on those.

    Clean the rims with acetone and pull the tape so tight that you need a break between wheels to save your hands from bleeding. The Filament tape I use has only got fibreglass wraps along the length, not side to side.

    The adhesive properties of the tape is not really an issue IMO, the tightness of the tape, the neatness of you taping job (no wrinkles) and cleanliness of the rim are the main points to get it to hold air and Stans.

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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canoe View Post
    I've only found 8898 listed up to 2.83" wide, but at 160 lbs/in it's got tons of tensile strength, and on steel it's listed at 65 oz/in adhesion. I haven't found a spec for Al.
    '8898' products search results (R.S.Hughes)

    They have it in about 10 different widths.
    Trek 9.9 Superfly SL
    FM190 Fatty
    Indy Fab Deluxe 29
    Pivot Vault CX
    Cervelo R3 Disc

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    '8898' products search results (R.S.Hughes)
    They have it in about 10 different widths.
    That's more like it. 144mm would certainly go across and up both edges.
    Like so many of the tapes, there's published standard widths, but if someone is ordering enough, they'll cut it to custom width off the production roll.

  44. #44
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    When I was doing 65mm marge lites, I used 48mm tape and overlapped in the middle... too hard to pull full width tight and get it on neat. 8898 is tough tape.
    Trek 9.9 Superfly SL
    FM190 Fatty
    Indy Fab Deluxe 29
    Pivot Vault CX
    Cervelo R3 Disc

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    ...The nextie fat rims only need the spoke access holes covered to achieve tubeless, so 3 wraps of 25mm Filament tape sorts that out.

    Clean the rims with acetone ...

    The adhesive properties of the tape is not really an issue IMO, ...
    I greatly prefer cleaning with acetone over alcohol. Does a much much better job, but man those fumes... Fun for scrubbing Ti when you need to bond the scrubbed Ti before it oxidizes again.
    For those with issues with bonding, getting away from solvent cleaning (wet, dilute grease, wipe off) and into a true degreaser (that doesn't include solvent cleaning's first step that wets and spreads the grease around) could be a faster more thorough approach.

    I'm more interested in when tape covers under the bead, expanding the rim diameter a bit for a tighter tire fit: will filament tape's filament ridges provide a useful sealing advantage here.

    With Gorilla Tape, many report results where the adhesive has let go when in contact with Stans. Others are fine with it.

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    I like OZZYBMX's explanation as mine failed there and at the valve stem. A common theme in this is the adhesion loosing its tack and not being able to stretch the Gorilla tape. I am going to re do my rear tire with the Gorilla tape on it to see if the bond is breaking down. I will do this one with the red Tyvek style tape made by Intertape polymer, like I did the front one yesterday. The way this stuff stretches it would hold airtight even if the bond did break because of the pressure it's putting on the wheel from tension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    ... the overlap point
    Overlap by 6" and stop stretching it for a further 4" before sticking the end down. ...
    If you finish the wrapping under tension, it will peel back and eventually fail...
    Here's a stretch (no pun intended). Anyone get any feel if there's a correlation between pass/fail and the direction of wrap/over-lap? As in, does that direction result in the Stans flowing off the overlap onto the lower material or is the trailing end of the wrap getting hit by Stans flowing against it. Could this matter? Could this matter when the wrap is finished under tension?

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    Just pulled the rear tire apart and the Stans had de bonded the 1/4" in from the outside inwards. My seam was good but is was only a matter of time till it released. As far as stretching goes I think you would need a gorilla to stretch Gorilla tape. The glue on that tape is not Stans safe as the glue looked different where it had contacted the Stans. I might try a glass of Stans with several brands samples dropped into the liquid to see if all types of the glue is dissolved or only Gorilla.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetiski View Post
    ... the Stans had de bonded the 1/4" in from the outside inwards. My seam was good but is was only a matter of time till it released. ... see if all types of the glue is dissolved or only Gorilla.
    And there's the odd part. Some people have this issue, others don't.
    Common denominator: Gorilla Tape with Stans.
    With other sealers?

  50. #50
    frl
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    I use gladpack. 8 rounds around rims. Easy and it works everytime.

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