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Thread: Foes Mutz

  1. #201
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    Just take a mirror with you and look at your face after the test, your smile will be as big as the wheels size

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Pidassle View Post
    i have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow. my hope is that the bike will bring fat tire benefits to a trail/am/enduro platform. i am looking for the fat tire version of a go anywhere do anything bike. for those who have real world experience, is there anything that i should pay attention to on the ride?
    Just be sure to keep an open mind. I've come to find setup to be a pretty significant factor.

    Mine can go from "good" to freakin' awesome with pressure changes alone. The nice thing as little changes can go a long way to making behave exactly how you want it to.

    I've been riding mine about 13-14 hours a week since I built it and have made quite a few incremental changes here and there and now that it's working well and I've adapted my $8000, 18 speed internal gearbox, Nicolai Helius TB 29'er wunder-bike just sits in the garage. I suppose I'm keeping it to use when my shock needs servicing.

    Enjoy it; and it's only money, they'll print more

  3. #203
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    Thanks for the encouragement and thanks to Likin Bikin for allowing me to test ride their demo. overall i really liked it, the bike is certainly a major upgrade over my hardtail fat bike. that said i was not blown away and feel that i would have a hard time keeping up the my normal riding group on the mutz. to be fair the cock pit felt cramped, i would have felt better with a longer stem. another factor was the demo loop was not very technical so the bike did not have a real chance to shine.

    it is better for me to purchase a new bike at year end, so i plan on building up a summer wheelset for my current bike with the expectation that i will be getting a mutz at some point in the future.

    thanks again for your input, i will keep an eye on this thread.

  4. #204
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    Bring a multitool and use it to adjust the cockpit, seat, etc, don't be shy. Pay attention to sizing, it rides big, so if you're between sizes you have to think about how youll use it.

    Read up on adjusting the CC Inline, the factory setting is neutral, with slow speed rebound a bit to the negative (cushier).

    Also bring a fork pump so you can mess with pressures,I run a lot less psi on the CC than on an RS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Pidassle View Post
    i have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow. my hope is that the bike will bring fat tire benefits to a trail/am/enduro platform. i am looking for the fat tire version of a go anywhere do anything bike. for those who have real world experience, is there anything that i should pay attention to on the ride?

  5. #205
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    My Mutz

    Medium frame w/Bluto fork
    Mix of XX1/XO1 w/twist shifters (28 T chainring)
    BB-7/FR-5 brakes w/180 rotors
    Hope hubs & DT Swiss BR 710 rims / Bontrager Hodag 26X3.8 tires
    Gravity Dropper seatpost
    Easton Haven 35 stem & carbon bars
    Cane Creek 40 headset

    A bit over 34 pounds (Heavy Crank Bros platform pedals)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-mutz8.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-mutz9.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-mutz10.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-mutz11.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-mutz12.jpg  


  6. #206
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    Paid Spam: Mutz frame set + Bluto


  7. #207
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    Foes Mutz-kimg1049_resized.jpg
    Foes Mutz-img_20150715_211640_resized.jpg
    Foes Mutz-kimg1050%7E2.jpg

    #1 Medium in Red, 650 3.25"
    #2 Large in Green, 26 x 4.8

    No pics yet from my new build (Large Red), we rode Xanadu yesterday, it was fun

  8. #208
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    Change that seat post. Doesn't match the bike.

  9. #209
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    How tight of a fit are the 4.8s on the green Mutz? Thx

  10. #210
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    What rims are those from the 650+ / 3.25 tires?

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRWLN View Post
    How tight of a fit are the 4.8s on the green Mutz? Thx
    Bulldozer 4.8's, kinda tight IMHO, but I was just the builder. There was a 1/4+ to the stays and bridges, 1/8" to the chain. I think if the rider gets going fast in the largest cog he could break his chain on the tire. I spaced the cranks over as far as reasonable and trued the rim a bit toward the non drive side.

    Personally, on a bike of this caliber, I'd run 26 x 4" with studs in the winter. An FS fatty is not about floatation, it's about going fast, traction, jumping, climbing. If you want mega float, get a CF hardtail and run the fattest tires you can get.

    What rims are those from the 650+ / 3.25 tires?
    WTB Scrapers i45 with Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 3.25

  12. #212
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    Thanks!!!

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWS View Post
    Here is my Mutz with the Trixxy fork. As you can see, it has taken me 7 years to figure out how to post pictures on here. Lol.




    This is super hot. I love triple clamp forks. Haven't ever ridden one on an MTB tho. I guess these are heavier than the Bluto?

  14. #214
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    Muuuuuuuutz !!!!!

    Just finished mine

    This week i'll go test it in Nice countryside; Then next week i'll bring my Mutz just near the French/Italian Alps

    I' m so happy !!!!!!!


    Foes Mutz-mutz-7.jpgFoes Mutz-mutz-5.jpgFoes Mutz-mutz-4.jpgFoes Mutz-mutz-8.jpgFoes Mutz-mutz-9.jpg


    Steve, from Nice, France

  15. #215
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    Has anyone seen a mutz setup 650b+ with a fox 34 150mm fork? I'm considering it for a dedicated mini fat, but probably can get away with doing that to a shaver.....

  16. #216
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    Just an stupid question: the factory set up is 5" rear travel or 5.5"?
    Mine came with the shock in the lower hole. I think that this is shorter travel. I am going to try an insane Manitou dorado 29" fork and Vanhelga combo.

  17. #217
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    That triple clamp Risse Trixxy may look cool, but good luck getting one!

    After eight weeks and numerous promises, I'm giving up on Risse.

    Since they have stopped answering the phone, I'll have VISA sort it out.

    Next?

    Gawd help me if the Bluto is the best we can get. ..

  18. #218
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    I answer my self: lower position 5". Upper position 5.5"

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Gawd help me if the Bluto is the best we can get. ..
    This is why I'm really interested in it for a dedicated 275+ xc shredder....

  20. #220
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    I did "finally" get ahold of Risse, so the fork should ship this week, fingers crossed!

    I'd like to have two of these forks, but the delay, the weight, the old tech, I would prefer to have a Pike or something similar if only someone would produce it.

    I've had biker buddies tell me it's not profitable, but with the number of Blutos being sold on fat bikes and the lack of alternatives to the Bluto, wouldn't it make sense to offer a higher end fork on a higher end bike?

    Putting a Bluto on a Mutz is like putting a Reba on a Troy.

  21. #221
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    In 1 week I would have mounted the Manitou Dorado 29" on my Mutz. It looks crazy, but I just see one negative point: weight:2900gr
    You can choose the travel just limiting it while pressuring, and the Hodag and Vanhelga tires have enough clearance.
    But sure we all pray for a pike or 36 fox for Fatty use.

  22. #222
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    Where to purchase frame

    This will be the next fatbike frame I will buildup this fall. Can anyone recommend the best place to purchase this frame from.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    This will be the next fatbike frame I will buildup this fall. Can anyone recommend the best place to purchase this frame from.
    Timberline Cycles in Colorado Springs sells quite a few Mutz frames. I think they sell more frames out of state than they do locally.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRWLN View Post
    Timberline Cycles in Colorado Springs sells quite a few Mutz frames. I think they sell more frames out of state than they do locally.
    Thanks for the response. Bought a frame from them last Saturday.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    Thanks for the response. Bought a frame from them last Saturday.
    No pics, then it didn't happen

    What fork are you getting?

    I have a fork on order from Risse, it's a Trixxy, spacers for a 15mm TA, I'm going to run it on the fat tandem first, then see about running it on the Mutz. I had lost hope that it was being built, but I finally spoke to someone last Friday and the only hold up is the spacers. Of course, I was told it would ship last week... no news is no news

    I don't really hate the Bluto, it's taken some time to get it working well with the CCinline, but it does work okay. I'm not a little guy and I feel like the small bump compliance could be a whole lot better, as well I'd take a little more stiffness.

    Bluto 120mm: Two tokens and 65psi is the sweet spot for me (200#), using 90-95% of travel, small hits are okay, still struggle with sticky stanchions...

    CCinline: I think the factory Mutz CCinline settings are durn close for me. At 100psi I get about 25-30% sag, which keeps me at 90-95% travel usage. I added two clicks of HSR one or two clicks of LSR so the back end was more supple without compromising climbing. So far this seems to work on big hits (my big hits are likely smaller than your big hits, YMMV), but I may add a click for HSC if I start bottoming out on jumps; so far it's worked fine.

    I am now running Specialized Purgatory 650 x 3", so much better than the Vee Rubber Trax Fatty, more traction, less autosteer, very neutral feeling tired, pretty much point and shoot. It was a little "weepy" the first week of riding, but after a long ride the other day it has very few squirt marks. The Purg has a much more square profile than the TF, the outside knobs actually grip and it's a fast tire.

    Great bike, my favorite bike of all time!!

  26. #226
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    It should arrrive this Friday. I will post pics for the non-believers. Working on my build part list. I have a lot of fatbike parts laying around I might use. I will be using the "NEW" Bluto. I have the "OLD" Bluto on my El Gordo and it is fine.

    I will be lacing up the DT Swiss rims to I9 hubs. I already have the hubs from a previous bulid that I did not use (My wifes fatbike).

    The tire will depend on what fits. I have most of them laying around so I will see what fits best Vs what ride quality suits me.

  27. #227
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    Manitou Dorado on:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-dorado.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-dorado6.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-dorado5.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-dorado11.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-img_2669-1.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-fullsizerender-4.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-fullsizerender-5.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-img_2671.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-img_2670.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-dorado9.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-sdim1263.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-sdim1271.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-sdim1264.jpg  

    Last edited by pplucena; 08-26-2015 at 06:07 AM.

  28. #228
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    Big fork, what's the travel? Is it a 135mm spacing?

    I'm still waiting for my Risse Trixy, it's closing in on three months...

    I'll be calling them tomorrow, again, I'll wager a week or two of getting voice mail until I get a live person who will tell me it's shiiping on Monday...

    I would not recommend Risse at this point, not sure what's up with them but they are clearly having problems.

    I was going to call Visa last week and reverse the charge, but I finally got through to a live person who said it would ship Friday; note that this is thr fourth time I have been told this same thing.

    If there was a better option for a 150 axle, that's not a Bluto, I'd buy it.

  29. #229
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    It is a Manitou Dorado 29" Down Hill fork. Axle is 20mmx110mm. Travel 175 mm but you can adjust it just shortening the fork while pressuring the chamber. The bike has change completely. It will stay there, even if a Pike or something similar for FAT is developed next years.

  30. #230
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    I just filed a complaint with VISA against Risse Racing for failure to deliver the Trixxy fork as promised.

    Two months, four promises of delivery, numerous attempts to contact Risse by phone and email, and I never received a single contact explaining the delay.

    So sad, the fork had promise, now I'm back to square one, looking at swapping out hubs to the boost standard

    Caveat emptor

  31. #231
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    Sorry about that, you seemed to have drank their coolaid for a bit, you almost had me convinced to get one...

    I have been watching Eurobike like mad, hoping Rockshox or Fox would come to the table with one... hell even Marz, Magura, someone.... but nothing...

    Though I am really interested in the Mutz, I am gaining interest in the 27.5+ and would love to see a Mutz like bike with the 148 rear and ready to accept a 3.25 tire...

  32. #232
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    Foes Mutz-image.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    It should arrrive this Friday. I will post pics for the non-believers. Working on my build part list. I have a lot of fatbike parts laying around I might use. I will be using the "NEW" Bluto. I have the "OLD" Bluto on my El Gordo and it is fine.

    I will be lacing up the DT Swiss rims to I9 hubs. I already have the hubs from a previous bulid that I did not use (My wifes fatbike).

    The tire will depend on what fits. I have most of them laying around so I will see what fits best Vs what ride quality suits me.
    The frame arrived today. Now I need to get together my parts build list.

  33. #233
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    Foes Mutz 4 inch Vee Mission & 2.8 inch Trailblazer

    Foes Mutz-img_20150726_082350_edit.jpgFoes Mutz-img_20150726_090223_edit.jpgFoes Mutz-img_20150814_121253.jpgFoes Mutz-img_20150814_121425.jpgFoes Mutz-img_20150814_152721.jpg

    Build:
    Foes Mutz Medium
    Chris King Headset
    RockShox Bluto 120mm
    RaceFace Next 35 20mm Rise Handlebar trimmed to 740mm
    RaceFace Atlas 35 50mm stem
    XTR M9000 with SRAM Rotor 180mm front/160mm rear
    XTR Di2 - Battery hidden in seat tube
    Nextie 90mm with Vee Mission 4
    and Nextie 50mm with WTB Trailblazer 2.8
    Hope Fatsno
    ODI Rogue
    KS LEV Integra Dropper
    WTB Pure V
    RaceFace Next SL 32t & BB

    2 bikes for the price of 1

  34. #234
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    That is what I am considering, using I9 with Whiskey rim and Stans Hugo 52 27.5. But not until the 140mm travel fat Pike is announced, hopefully at Interbike next week.

  35. #235
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    Foes Mutz-dsc_0235.jpg

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timppa H View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ^^^ Nice!

  37. #237
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    Do you have some insider info or is this just you dreaming?

    I'd snap one up in a blink!

    Quote Originally Posted by JCHKeys View Post
    That is what I am considering, using I9 with Whiskey rim and Stans Hugo 52 27.5. But not until the 140mm travel fat Pike is announced, hopefully at Interbike next week.

  38. #238
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    If I didn't ride in the snow, I'd stay with 3" tires, but I'm all about one bike and swapping wheels... currently riding Purgatorys, great tread, no issues with casing wear or flatting.

    The Foes Alpine Plus just came out, I think it's 27.5+, the pics I saw showed WTB Trailboss 3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by JCHKeys View Post
    Sorry about that, you seemed to have drank their coolaid for a bit, you almost had me convinced to get one...

    I have been watching Eurobike like mad, hoping Rockshox or Fox would come to the table with one... hell even Marz, Magura, someone.... but nothing...

    Though I am really interested in the Mutz, I am gaining interest in the 27.5+ and would love to see a Mutz like bike with the 148 rear and ready to accept a 3.25 tire...

  39. #239
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    Here you got:

    Foes Mutz-imgl2059-750x500.jpg

  40. #240
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    Just ordered my Mutz frame today from Free-Ride, so need to get started on gathering parts.
    Anyone know if clearance OK for Clown Shoes with say 4.8" tyre? I'm probably not going to go that wide, but would like to know what the limit is.

  41. #241
    the fat kid
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    I have the Barbegazi 26×4.7″ tire on an 80mm rim. I'm NOT a fan of huge wide rims. I think you need to have some contour to the tire instead of it looking like a quad/4wheeler. If that doesnt fit, maybe Foes could secretly not-so-secretly popping some 197mm rear triangles out O:-)
    I ride faster than I should.

  42. #242
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    That's not helping...

    Quote Originally Posted by pplucena View Post
    Here you got:

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1016510

  43. #243
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    What's the largest tire you can fit on the Mutz?

  44. #244
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    Thanks for that gearhead. I'm currently riding a Fatboy with 4.6" tyres on 90mm rims and like the feel, so didn't wan't to go too much narrower.

  45. #245
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    Bulldozer, it was tight to the stays and the chain.

    Why would you want a super fat tire on an FS dat bike?

    Trust me, a typical 4" tire with some good knobbies is what the Mutz was designed to run. You go too big and the bouncing will defeat the suspension.

    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    What's the largest tire you can fit on the Mutz?

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Bulldozer, it was tight to the stays and the chain.

    Why would you want a super fat tire on an FS dat bike?

    Trust me, a typical 4" tire with some good knobbies is what the Mutz was designed to run. You go too big and the bouncing will defeat the suspension.
    Because I have a set of almost new 5" Dillinger studs for riding on ice and in deep snow. I use to have a ti-Mukluk.

    I have a set of 4" Van Helgas for summer already too.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Bulldozer, it was tight to the stays and the chain.

    Why would you want a super fat tire on an FS dat bike?

    Trust me, a typical 4" tire with some good knobbies is what the Mutz was designed to run. You go too big and the bouncing will defeat the suspension.
    I don't have access to a full suss Fat yet, but my experience of riding fat front suspension hasn't led me to conclude that a 5" tyre bounces significantly more than a 4" tyre and so defeats the suspension. Perhaps I'm just a clumsy and insensitive rider.

  48. #248
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    Anybody recommend a good crank for the Mutz? I'm not looking to break the bank, but don't want to skimp either. Does the frame take a threaded or push-fit BB?

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    Because I have a set of almost new 5" Dillinger studs for riding on ice and in deep snow. I use to have a ti-Mukluk.

    I have a set of 4" Van Helgas for summer already too.
    Having been using vanhelga's on my mutz with great satisfaction this summer.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownmruk View Post
    Anybody recommend a good crank for the Mutz? I'm not looking to break the bank, but don't want to skimp either. Does the frame take a threaded or push-fit BB?
    It uses BSA fornthe BB. I use a RaceFace Turbine Cinch which I had moved over from my previous bike. Am using a BSA30 bottombracket from ROTOR.

  51. #251
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    Nah, tire size is personal preference, I like my tires to track and carve when I ride firm. I have the privilege of being able to go from 5" to 4" to 3" on my bike, so it's just something I notice.

    I'm not sure there is an ideal tire size as terrain and user preference varies greatly.

    I rode 5" and 4" tires on my Bluto outfitted hardtail fat and I noticed the ride was faster and I had more control at speed on a 4" tire; tires, unlike fork or shock suspension are "uncontrolled suspension".

    If you need a 5" tire on an FS bike, it makes me wonder why you need an FS bike, but if you have 5" studded tires, I suppose that's what you got; I'd trade them for 4" or stud your own.

    Good cranks: RF Cinch with direct mount NW ring.

  52. #252
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    from the Likin Bikin Facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/LikinBikin/timeline/
    There are a few pics of the fork


    Foxy Mutz! A pretty sweet test kit arrived today from FOX.
    A new extra-volume (EVOL) DPS shock to try out is cool enough. But, after learning that the "boosted" 275+ Fox 34 will actually take this much fat (VanHelga on Whisky rim), we had to try it. Thanks Fox for the extra help. We'll treat 'em real good.
    Full name of the fork: 2016 34K FLOAT 27.5in Plus F-S 140 3Pos-Adj FIT4 Matte Blk Orange Logo 15QRx110 1.5T 51mm Rake AM (not kidding)

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Nah, tire size is personal preference, I like my tires to track and carve when I ride firm. I have the privilege of being able to go from 5" to 4" to 3" on my bike, so it's just something I notice.

    I'm not sure there is an ideal tire size as terrain and user preference varies greatly.

    I rode 5" and 4" tires on my Bluto outfitted hardtail fat and I noticed the ride was faster and I had more control at speed on a 4" tire; tires, unlike fork or shock suspension are "uncontrolled suspension".

    If you need a 5" tire on an FS bike, it makes me wonder why you need an FS bike, but if you have 5" studded tires, I suppose that's what you got; I'd trade them for 4" or stud your own.

    Good cranks: RF Cinch with direct mount NW ring.
    I need a 5" because I'm going to ride it in the deep snow in the backcountry. I have found that a 5" floats a lot better than a 4" in deep snow. In the summer Ill ride the 4". I only want one fat bike so its going to be a full suspension.

    You make it sound like you are real pro at fat bikes. I'm no beginner either. Here are a few pics of why I want a full suspension fat bike. It has to do it all.

    My ti-Mukluk did fine but Im hoping the suspension in the rear will help with the back country riding.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-jewel.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-jewl.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-jwl.jpg  

    Foes Mutz-jwwl.jpg  


  54. #254
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    Well I'm not trying to sound like a pro... I just like riding fat tires.

    I just don't see full suspension providing as much benefit in big snow slogs, the suspension movement will compromise clearance, suspension is more prone to low temperature failures, and suspension makes a heavy bike type even heavier.

    If i was doing serious snow riding, I'd have studded 5" tires on the lightest carbon hardtail I could afford, possibly with a Lauf fork.

    I really don't think FS fat bikes were intended for snow use per se, I believe the target population was the four season fat biker.

    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    I need a 5" because I'm going to ride it in the deep snow in the backcountry. I have found that a 5" floats a lot better than a 4" in deep snow. In the summer Ill ride the 4". I only want one fat bike so its going to be a full suspension.

    You make it sound like you are real pro at fat bikes. I'm no beginner either. Here are a few pics of why I want a full suspension fat bike. It has to do it all.

    My ti-Mukluk did fine but Im hoping the suspension in the rear will help with the back country riding.

  55. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Well I'm not trying to sound like a pro... I just like riding fat tires.

    I just don't see full suspension providing as much benefit in big snow slogs, the suspension movement will compromise clearance, suspension is more prone to low temperature failures, and suspension makes a heavy bike type even heavier.

    If i was doing serious snow riding, I'd have studded 5" tires on the lightest carbon hardtail I could afford, possibly with a Lauf fork.

    I really don't think FS fat bikes were intended for snow use per se, I believe the target population was the four season fat biker.
    When you are only going to have one fat bike, it might as well be a FS.

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    When you are only going to have one fat bike, it might as well be a FS.
    That's why I ride a Mutz, but I'm kinda odd that way

    Are you going to get some 650+ wheels for non snow riding?

    The "big deal" right now is getting a decent fork. The Bluto is functional, but it has terrible stiction, rebound is garbage, and it can be leaky, not to mention the damper failure issue. I want to buy a Wren, it looks like the right combination of form and function (34mm stanchions), but travel is only 110mm. The owner responded to my email, saying that a 150mm travel/150mm hub spaced fork will be available in the Spring. I'd like to believe it....but I'm tired of waiting.

    I continue to work on getting a DH fork rebuilt for 150mm spacing, currently waiting on Timberline bikes to help me get through to Risse, but at a certain point I'll have to give up. One option would be 135mm spacing, but it is also seems to be a dead end for everyone other than Wren, so then it's boost which may clear a 4" tire in some forms; boost will definitely not clear a 5" tire.

  57. #257
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    I'd like a bigger/better fork too, but I guess it is all about sales volume for Rockshox. If they are selling enough Blutos, then maybe they will produce a Pike sized fat fork and also refresh the Bluto. Otherwise we will have to hope a boutique manufacturer will get it right. From what I have read, there seems to be more action in the +size fork arena rather than the full fat.

  58. #258
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    Dorado or Fusion Revel

    The new Bluto is suppose to be a lot better.

  59. #259
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    got one...

    Hey Guys,

    Thanks for all the comments, it helped me in my selection. Trying to pay back all the good advice so here's my lengthy report. I've always wanted a Foes Bike and when I saw the Mutz it along with the stellar reviews sealed the deal. I respect what Foes has done with his builds and the bike has not disappointed. I rode the Bucksaw before I bought this and really would have been happy with it but again, always wanted a Foes. My build is:

    Weight: 32.4lbs
    Frame Size: Medium
    Whiskey 70 wheels
    I9 Hubs
    Van Helga tires
    Canfield Brothers Crampon flats, Mg
    New XT8000 Rear drivetrain, set up as 1x11
    XT brakes, comm error with my builder and I will be changing over to XT8000, the XT's are ok but being used to XTR they're not cutting it for me.
    RF Next SL cranks, 170mm w/ RF 28T ring
    ODI Rogue Grips
    Truvativ Noir 40 Carbon Bars, only 640 (from another bike) I have the same bar in a 720mm on it's way.
    Spec Phenom seat, Ti rails
    Thompson Elite Setback post
    Bluto 120 fork
    CC DB Inline shock
    lower end RF stem, 50mm. Wasn't sure about length so I didn't bling out.

    So far this thing has been great. I did buy the XT front derailleur for when I go out west. Having the mount elevated this frame over Turner imho. Though I suspect a Turner frame would be sweet as well.

    I do notice Bluto flexing but not much choice so... Not interested in DH fork. I do plan on a 40-50mm 650b setup next spring and may consider a '+' fork. I've heard a lot of speculation that a fat pike or equivalent may become available, I sure hope so but I don't hold out much hope. It seemed clear from Interbike that 27.5+ is all the rage and I believe the big boys will continue to go that route. To an extent I understand. I think until someone comes up with a high volume 4 inch tire with rigid side walls we may be stuck with the Bluto. In the limit they simply won't corner as well on singletrack as a skinny tire. Sand use is the exception.

    i really like the CC shocks. I replaced an RP23 earlier on my Tallboy and really there's no comparison. I guess I have a problem with buying brand new stuff and shipping it off to Push to make it right.

    I'll probably 'borrow' the Bud from my wifes Fatboy to try it out in the snow. If it's a go I'll get another one.

    On several sections of my favorite track it easily out climbs my Tallboy. Note I'm not that great of a rider really and at 54 my climbing is meh... I mention this to those in my shoes who might think they won't be able to go with 1x11 and/or climb as well as they used to. Not the case, my TB is a sub 25 lb bike and after two rides I can climb better on the Mutz.

    That's it!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-mutz.jpg  


  60. #260
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    It looks awesome. Enjoy it!
    But I can't explain how you don't use a dropper seatpost. The Mutz is the funniest bike that I ever ride and the funny starts when you drop your seatpost, lower your gravity center and lean your bike. Even if you are not going to use it for enduro, even if you will use it just on road you will note a big change dropping your seatpost.
    The second part is that I had bad experiences with setback seatposts and suspension frames. In my case the frame doesn't work ok when you change your position so back and you have a lot of vertical movement when climbing. I don´t know if you will have this problem with the Mutz because it is a really good suspension system climbing. My inline and fork are always full open without movement while climbing.

  61. #261
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    I agree, your build sounds awesome, no expense spared and I am green with envy. But the fact that you are using a setback vice a dropper caught me by surprise also. Without a dropper I think that you are missing out on the full capability of that bike (just like every other 4-6 inch travel bike on the market). I have reverbs on every bike I own (other than my tandem, that would just be weird), and it unlock so much potential. Even my hardtail fat bike is a new beast when you hit that reverb button.

    Either way, you have an awesome bike, enjoy it. And you are in the boat with the rest of us, settle for a bluto and start searching/hoping for something better.

  62. #262
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    Interesting... I have a straight post I can try but I've always gone back to the setbacks, the position feels better for whatever reason. I have a straight post I will try to see if it does affect suspension. Haven't heard that before.

    I've tried a dropper in the past, I think the reverb I have is the wrong size else I might have put it on there. Mine was unreliable and stopped working in the winter, maybe I'll bleed it and try again. Much of my riding here in Michigan doesn't include many big drops but I can understand why folks like them so much.

    couple other points I didn't mention about the frame/component combo that maybe I should have since I did call it a review:

    0. Everyone has their reasons and preferences for frame selection. For me the biggest advantage of a FS Fatty is I can run higher tire pressures on dry dirt without basketballing into orbit. I just don't like the feel of my fatboy at lower pressures during hard turns, to each his own.

    1. The Frame is a tank and amazingly stiff laterally, that said it seems to operate quite smoothly. The build quality, welds, fit, finish is as good as it can get. Foes doesn't screw around with compromised parts that's for sure. It looks to me that every last thing is machined, not a lot of bending going on here... Oh and it is the best looking bike I've ever seen...

    2. Coming from VPP I wondered how it would compare, so far it seems capable and comparable. There does seem to be a little added bob over my Tallboy but the DB Inline takes care of it for me using the climb switch. The bearings seem uber solid but easy to get at and maintain. So far this single pivot works for me as well as the VPP and on my Tallboy my links are exposed to hits so in this regard it's better. Santa Cruz has changed their design for the better on later models.

    2b. One note, even when setting SAG to 30+% I can't seem to reach max travel. I checked and there are no spacers in the shock so this is new to me. I'm 195 dressed so not exactly a lite weight. Perhaps the leverage change due to the setback post??? It does leave me curious...

    3. I can't speak for anyone else of course but I love the slack head tube angle, I do notice it going downhill and my initial impression is this bike would be just fine on real mountainous terrain. Others have real proof, mine is only opinion.

    4. I've read some odd comments about seat tube angle that I still don't understand, perhaps it's along the same thread as the comment regarding using a setback.

    5. This is my first thru axle on the back and it just works, why they waited this long to do this is a mystery.

    6. There is a rub point with my rear der and brake cables around the shock linkage. I'd be interested in knowing how others routed theirs.

    7. TBD as to how the braking and suspension interact with each other, I only have a couple rides so far.

    8. One final component related comment: I agree with others, the tubeless whiskey carbons are a game changer. I have a Fatboy expert and there is no comparison, on singletrack at least. I know a bunch of folks run theirs tubeless but I don't want to become a 3M or Gorilla tape expert, and I don't want to deal with this on a trip.

  63. #263
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    The Reverb is not a good idea if you are going to ride in snow with low temperatures. At least in my experience hydraulic is affected with the cold temp. People use to go for Gravity Dropper in these conditions. I don´t know if Thomson, Lev,... works ok in snow.
    The Mutz is awesome in any case but, believe me, try it with your saddle low and you will be ordering a dropper post in a minute.
    For the rubbing hoses use a 3M protection or change them to the lower route are the options.

  64. #264
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    Another Mutz from Finland.

    Foes Mutz-wp_20151003_009.jpgFoes Mutz-wp_20151003_007.jpgFoes Mutz-wp_20151009_002-2-.jpg

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika111 View Post
    Another Mutz from Finland.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Very Nice!!!! Love the color and the Gumwalls are awesome!

  66. #266
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    Come on, I'm fifty, what's this about old guys can't climb???

    In terms of what the Mutz can do and how it rides, I would never call it akward or heavy, to me it's an enduro bike in a fat bike body

    So, I live out West (Cascades WA) and I say you don't need the front derailleur, just stick with 1x, even on my fat tandem I run 1x.

    Quote Originally Posted by TallBoy51 View Post

    On several sections of my favorite track it easily out climbs my Tallboy. Note I'm not that great of a rider really and at 54 my climbing is meh... I mention this to those in my shoes who might think they won't be able to go with 1x11 and/or climb as well as they used to. Not the case, my TB is a sub 25 lb bike and after two rides I can climb better on the Mutz.

    That's it!!

  67. #267
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    How did you run your lines? There supposed to be run through the shock hanger. I'll post a pic of mine I can remember...

    As to the 30% sag not working, first check that your factory settings are correct, then reset the sag, then ride and tweak one thing at a time.

    We're the same weight, I had no problem getting full compression at 30% sage, I think my pressure is ~ 115psi. I'm running a little less LSR and LSC to slow down and soften the ride, but I believe I left the HSR and HSC at factory.

    What fork pressure are you running? Are you getting full travel up front?

    Did you cycle your shock to see where the travel ends? I believe at full compression the rubber ring will be a couple mm from the can, at least that's been my experience.

    How tall are you? That post sticks up kinda far and your stem is kinda tall, not trying to be a jerk, but I'm 6' tall, I started with a medium and ended up on a large. I got called out on it and got fussy about it, but in the end a large rides waaay better for someone my size.

    Good luck with the set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TallBoy51 View Post
    2b. One note, even when setting SAG to 30+% I can't seem to reach max travel. I checked and there are no spacers in the shock so this is new to me. I'm 195 dressed so not exactly a lite weight. Perhaps the leverage change due to the setback post??? It does leave me curious...

    6. There is a rub point with my rear der and brake cables around the shock linkage. I'd be interested in knowing how others routed theirs.

  68. #268
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    Hey Ben,

    I posted to get comments so no issues from this side. I had the bike built up by a dealer and told him to leave a lot of post and fill with spacers. This way I can figure out the stem height that's right for me and cut down when I'm satisfied. I'm 5'9" btw... They also routed the cables which other than the rub and they're too long I'm ok with. A couple more sticky cable mounts should do the trick.

    My front fork seems ok, I can get full range and am ok with it. You're running your db inline at 115lbs or were you referring to your rear shock? Yesterday after receiving my digital shock pump I set the inline to 145 lbs, had about 18mm sag without my pack on it so my guess it was around 20mm loaded up. I rode my local track and still could only get about 2/3 travel so I don't know what's going on. I even set LSC to one click. I had no problem with maxing my RP23 but maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here. I'm not complaining about performance, just curious about whether something's up with my shock. Oh, and I did cycle the shock and it's fine.

    Overall I really like the bike, yesterday would have been perfect conditions for my Tallboy and I simply didn't want to ride it. That's the best vote for this rig I could give. I wasn't quite sure what you guys meant when you said "it's just more fun", but now I do. It's like a little kid with his Tonka truck... Isn't that the point? Build up and ride whatever you want that keeps you on the bike!!

    One question for all: What's the biggest fatty tire we can run up front? It will be snowing soon so I was thinking BUD or something similar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How did you run your lines? There supposed to be run through the shock hanger. I'll post a pic of mine I can remember...

    As to the 30% sag not working, first check that your factory settings are correct, then reset the sag, then ride and tweak one thing at a time.

    We're the same weight, I had no problem getting full compression at 30% sage, I think my pressure is ~ 115psi. I'm running a little less LSR and LSC to slow down and soften the ride, but I believe I left the HSR and HSC at factory.

    What fork pressure are you running? Are you getting full travel up front?

    Did you cycle your shock to see where the travel ends? I believe at full compression the rubber ring will be a couple mm from the can, at least that's been my experience.

    How tall are you? That post sticks up kinda far and your stem is kinda tall, not trying to be a jerk, but I'm 6' tall, I started with a medium and ended up on a large. I got called out on it and got fussy about it, but in the end a large rides waaay better for someone my size.

    Good luck with the set up.

  69. #269
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    I am going to the Beist tires from 45 north (have to order some). Those are 4.6??

  70. #270
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    Foes Mutz-13193_45n_tire_geo_update_v3.jpg

  71. #271
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    5'9", yeah a medium is good, you might want to drop the bars to improve handling.

    The 115psi is for the DBInline, I'm 195# nakid, I have run as little as 100psi to get a soft ride for low speed play, but for big hit and jumps, I need a little more support.

    To set the DB Inline correctly, start with the factory setting and get the sag at 30%, then start twisting knobs.

    Average pressures can vary across units, but 145psi is a lot unless you weigh 250#.

    If you want a firmer ride (less plush), then get the sag corrected first, then crank up the LSC.

    Biggest front tire is whatever fit's in your Bluto

    Quote Originally Posted by TallBoy51 View Post
    Hey Ben,

    I posted to get comments so no issues from this side. I had the bike built up by a dealer and told him to leave a lot of post and fill with spacers. This way I can figure out the stem height that's right for me and cut down when I'm satisfied. I'm 5'9" btw... They also routed the cables which other than the rub and they're too long I'm ok with. A couple more sticky cable mounts should do the trick.

    My front fork seems ok, I can get full range and am ok with it. You're running your db inline at 115lbs or were you referring to your rear shock? Yesterday after receiving my digital shock pump I set the inline to 145 lbs, had about 18mm sag without my pack on it so my guess it was around 20mm loaded up. I rode my local track and still could only get about 2/3 travel so I don't know what's going on. I even set LSC to one click. I had no problem with maxing my RP23 but maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here. I'm not complaining about performance, just curious about whether something's up with my shock. Oh, and I did cycle the shock and it's fine.

    Overall I really like the bike, yesterday would have been perfect conditions for my Tallboy and I simply didn't want to ride it. That's the best vote for this rig I could give. I wasn't quite sure what you guys meant when you said "it's just more fun", but now I do. It's like a little kid with his Tonka truck... Isn't that the point? Build up and ride whatever you want that keeps you on the bike!!

    One question for all: What's the biggest fatty tire we can run up front? It will be snowing soon so I was thinking BUD or something similar.

  72. #272
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    I'm curious whether anyone has experimented with the 5 vs 5.5 inch rear shock setup? Mine came set up at 5 inch, is that common? If anyone has tried both, which one did you prefer?

  73. #273
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    Interesting, way down at 115lbs. Thanks I'll give it a try. As I mentioned, I had them setup the fork with a bunch of spacers. I assumed I'd be going lower but I kinda like it the way it is. It's easy to pull up the front wheel and I really don't notice it wandering on climbs, plus it's great on the back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    5'9", yeah a medium is good, you might want to drop the bars to improve handling.

    The 115psi is for the DBInline, I'm 195# nakid, I have run as little as 100psi to get a soft ride for low speed play, but for big hit and jumps, I need a little more support.

    To set the DB Inline correctly, start with the factory setting and get the sag at 30%, then start twisting knobs.

    Average pressures can vary across units, but 145psi is a lot unless you weigh 250#.

    If you want a firmer ride (less plush), then get the sag corrected first, then crank up the LSC.

    Biggest front tire is whatever fit's in your Bluto

  74. #274
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    I run 5.5" inch position since I put the manitou dorado fork. With the Bluto your travel is front limited but you can try, it will take you five minutes to change it.

  75. #275
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    I run mine at 5.5 with the Bluto. I can run the shock a little softer with fewer pedal strikes.

    It really isn't that noticeable as I'm deep in the travel. I'm heavy though about #250/w gear

  76. #276
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    Has anyone tried to mount 4.8 knards? Or whiskey 9s or similar width rims

    Would assume front end fitz

    Rear?

  77. #277
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    Test rode Mutz lat sat in Red Rocks open space, courtesy of Timberline cycles, awesome folks! conditions were dry, with everything from long varying grade hard trail climbs, to sand, gravel, and some brief downhill stretches with jumps and other moderate technical pieces. Bike setup 26x4, vanhelga up fron nates in back. In short loved the bike!! (what a change from a 29 hardtail). Climbing surely more work, but payback is huge going down! Traction was insane, and it's quite something for me to be cardio limited, as opposed to traction limited, when climbing - On mutz i would give out before wheels ever spun out-a rarity for me on my 29x2.1. I'm Thinking though that I likely had more traction than needed, but you hate to give that up! Still, and being more interested in dry all mountain summer riding, wondering whether to go 275+ to start, although both wheel sets are my future.


    "When debating a fool, retreat is the only option"
    Richard N Busternutt

  78. #278
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    Regarding the dropper, have an adapter coming for my Reverb, so... soon...

  79. #279
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    What size seatpost clamp?

  80. #280
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    The Hulk in the Wild

    Beautiful fall day for a ride around Folsom Lake. What's left of it .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-image.jpg  


  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    What size seatpost clamp?
    ??? Is that a question for me? 31.6mm seat tube diameter. I have a 30.6mm Reverb and will be getting a .7mm shim. If I was convinced these things would keep working I'd get another one but mine wasn't that reliable in the past. Going to attempt to rebuild and bleed it to see if it makes any difference. I don't get it, how hard is it to make one of these, seem pretty simple when compared to a shock.

  82. #282
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    What size seatpost clamp does the mutz take?
    Last edited by kntr; 10-27-2015 at 08:15 PM.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallBoy51 View Post
    I'm curious whether anyone has experimented with the 5 vs 5.5 inch rear shock setup? Mine came set up at 5 inch, is that common? If anyone has tried both, which one did you prefer?
    I tried it both ways, at 5.5 it may have slowed travel, it was not better, perhaps with more travel up front..

  84. #284
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    Just ordered up the flow dunderbeist setup for mutz

    Looking forward to some powder and wider footprint

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by kntr View Post
    What size seatpost clamp does the mutz take?
    The frame comes with a clamp. I believe the post is 31.6.

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by blidner View Post
    Just ordered up the flow dunderbeist setup for mutz

    Looking forward to some powder and wider footprint
    "Clearance Clarence", I built a Mutz with 80mm Chinese Carbon rims and Vee Rubber Bulldozer 4.7, the tire barely cleared the frame and it was too close to the chain; had to true the wheel toward the non drivr side so it wouldn't rub the chain.

    I did post this info earlier in the thread...

    Ya might want to test fit that Dunderbeist before filling with sealant.

  87. #287
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    Thanks Nurse Ben

    Mutz ran them on his mutz so I don't have any concerns

    The only difference between his bike and is he may be a larger front ring and a different crank but he knows the bike so I am not worried

    The nice thing about ordering the bike from mutz at likin bikin is all the post purchase support

  88. #288
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    Fat just got fatter

    hope to ride in a few days

    aired up nice with a floor pump. Hopefully they hold air tonight

    Pretty jazzed (where is the snow!!)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-image.jpg  


  89. #289
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    Wren is testing a 150mm inverted fork on a Mutz, if you go to Wren's Facebook site you can see a picture.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCHKeys View Post
    Wren is testing a 150mm inverted fork on a Mutz, if you go to Wren's Facebook site you can see a picture.
    And there is this...I discussed this option with Foes on phone last night. Hard to judge clearance from photo though.
    Foes Mutz-mutzfox.jpg

    2016 34K FLOAT 27.5in Plus F-S 140


    "When debating a fool, retreat is the only option"
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  91. #291
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    I think I posted that photo a little while back

    That is mutz's bike

    And in case some of you were wondering, yes I mounted those tires incorrectly

    Mother......

  92. #292
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    The Fox Float Plus is gonna be tight AND it's a Boost hub (110mm).

    The Wren would be an option, I exchanged some emails with the owner he said that some longer travel forks with 150mm hub spacing were in development, but he was talking about Spring/Summer 2016.

    I heard that Ventana had something in the works...just got off the phone with Teresa at Ventana, it may not be exactly what "we" are looking for, but it's a step in the right direction:

    MRP Groove legs, Ventana made clamps, 120mm travel, designed specifically for the Jefe Tandem.

    I suggested that a longer travel option would be great for FS fatbike riders, but because Sherwood is really busy with other projects, it might be one of those situations where you do it yourself; buy the clamps separately and modify an existing long travel Groove.

    Teresa said it would be a few more months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpcannavo View Post
    And there is this...I discussed this option with Foes on phone last night. Hard to judge clearance from photo though.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    2016 34K FLOAT 27.5in Plus F-S 140

  93. #293
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    5.5" feels way better to me and matches the valving of my Bluto better. Overall the bike feels more balanced front to rear in the long travel mode.
    *Note that changing the shock mount to the 5.5" option also changes the leverage and the rate at which the shock compresses. In the 5" mode the Fox CTD felt too stiff through nasty rock gardens but feels way better now that I changed it to 5.5" You might need to adjust pressure a bit after you change it but it is definitely worth trying to see which you prefer. Don't get caught up in thinking you don't need the travel, think of it as tuning the compression rate.
    As for travel, as far as I can tell, it has no effect on head tube angle once you adjust your sag, its really just allowing your rear wheel to move an extra .5" at the END of the travel.
    I would recommend every Mutz rider experiment with the two positions as it has a pretty noticeable effect and its only 1 bolt to change

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Fox Float Plus is gonna be tight AND it's a Boost hub (110mm).

    The Wren would be an option, I exchanged some emails with the owner he said that some longer travel forks with 150mm hub spacing were in development, but he was talking about Spring/Summer 2016.

    I heard that Ventana had something in the works...just got off the phone with Teresa at Ventana, it may not be exactly what "we" are looking for, but it's a step in the right direction:

    MRP Groove legs, Ventana made clamps, 120mm travel, designed specifically for the Jefe Tandem.

    I suggested that a longer travel option would be great for FS fatbike riders, but because Sherwood is really busy with other projects, it might be one of those situations where you do it yourself; buy the clamps separately and modify an existing long travel Groove.

    Teresa said it would be a few more months.
    Thanks for these updates, I for one appreciate it!!!

  95. #295
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    Wren posted a video of a Mutz with the 160mm travel version being tested on some sandy/rocky terrain. Its pretty impressive and I like the black leg guards. I hope this thing goes into production.

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    It's arrived at last - only a month late. Off to get building now. Anyone got the detailed geometry for the Large size for me to check? Foes seem to have changed their website and I can't find it anymore.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-dsc_0214.jpg  


  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownmruk View Post
    It's arrived at last - only a month late. Off to get building now. Anyone got the detailed geometry for the Large size for me to check? Foes seem to have changed their website and I can't find it anymore.
    It is on their site. Just not in a table anymore. I have a large if you need any specific measurements.

    Foes MUTZ specs
    Frame Size SM, MD, LG,XL
    HeadTube Angle 67
    Seat Tube Angle 70.5
    Bottom bracket height 13.25"
    Chainstay Length 18"
    Toptube Length EFF. 22.25, 23.25, 24.25, 25
    Seat post diameter 31.6
    Head tube diameter ZS44 top/ EC49 btm
    Head tube length 4.12 SM/MD-LG/XL 4.75
    Wheel travel 5"-5.5"
    BB Width 100mm
    Front Der. Type Direct Mount
    Rear wheel spacing 12x177mm

  98. #298
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    Thanks, but the original table had more detail as other measurements also vary for example seat tube length. I think I have verified it's a large from the toptube length. I just wanted the detailed geometry for future reference.

    Does anyone have torque settings for the pivots, shock mounts, hanger and rear axle? My frame came without any supporting information and I like to check before I go for a test ride.

  99. #299
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    Mine was a month late too. I did get to ride it today for the first time. 35.9 lbs with heavy wheels and DH tubes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Foes Mutz-img_3372%5B1%5D.jpg  


  100. #300
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    The fork is in production and is shipping the end of November.
    150mm hub, 160mm travel

    Inverted Fat Fork handles up to 5" tires.

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