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  1. #1
    A Surly Maverick
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    Idea! Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !

    I`ve given this project a lot of consideration; and decided that it is time to have `a go`.

    So I put an add on Single Track World, and managed to get a Klein Palomino frame here in the UK.

    It`s a Palomino XV frame in a kind of grey/green, not that that is important as it won`t be staying that colour.

    Paint was scruffy (as you would expect for the vintage), but no structural issues.

    First job was a bit of measuring , the rear triangle has a max width of 80mm (not bad!).

    Using a 26" wheel with a Mavic D321 rim, the max tyre height was 61mm.

    I had a play around, an Endo on a D321 rim wouldn`t fit

    A Gazzaloddi 3" on the same rim would fit (just) but wouldn`t rotate as it rubbed the Palomino shock body.

    I disassembled the rear triangle and stripped the paint, gave it a quick polish and reassembled !

    So back to the drawing board (literally).

    I`m an old fashioned Mech Eng so no computers, just pencils, rulers and rubbers.

    Full scale drawings indicated that widening the rear from 135mm to 165mm would give 110mm rear tyre clearance as a minimum.

    Additionally, it would be necessary the lengthen the chain stays by 40mm, which would give approx 25mm mud clearance.

    I contacted BETD regarding a custom 165mm rear Draco hub and they said they could do that ok.

    Next decision was how best to go about the widening and lengthening without compromising the rear triangle structure too much.

    The current chain stays have a solid pivot block welded to the tubular stays in one place.
    I thought about simply welding a in a 40mm extension but this increases the welded areas from 1 to 2, increasing risk of failure.

    On balance, it would seem best to produce two new pivot blocks with the extra 40mm already attatched (from solid aluminium) and then simply re-weld the existing chain stay (tubular section) back on (having first cut it off the original smaller pivot blocks).

    So I`ve got a nice block of Al off Ebay and that`s what I plan to do.

    I will also have to make a new upper seat stay yoke to allow for the re-positioning of the seat stays.

    Will this work ? Theoretically , YES !

    Stay tuned for success/failure/fettling and bodging to follow.

    here are some Pix to reward your patience

    Cheers,
    Dr FG
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm1.jpg  

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    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm4.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm7.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm8.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm9.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm10.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pm11.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  2. #2
    How much does it weigh?
    Reputation: Borgschulze's Avatar
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    Awesome, been waiting to see this for some time now.

  3. #3
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    That looks ideal for a conversion
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  4. #4
    Just Ride!
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    Can't wait to see the finished product.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
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    it's go time
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  6. #6
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    I'm going to watch this one.

  7. #7
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    Now you've gone and messed with my status quo. I've always had a soft spot for Kleins and may have to try to do one of these too. I'll have to wait til next season as I'm putting a Fatback together for my wife for Christmas. That just gives me time to find a good deal on a palomino. Have you thought about customizing up a Maverick fork so an 80mm rim would fit? And finally did you consider going to 170 in the rear to allow a bit more clearance with wide rims?

  8. #8
    a lazy pedaler
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    in!

  9. #9
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    This is going to be a good thread Mike
    good you can get a hub made up over here too
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  10. #10
    A Surly Maverick
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    Next go to work is checking the Palomino's Monolink with the TMS bb at 140mm wide will allow crank clearance of the widened rear chain stays , more drawings !
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  11. #11
    How much does it weigh?
    Reputation: Borgschulze's Avatar
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    I'm happy I could help find a BB suitable for such a project

  12. #12
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze
    I'm happy I could help find a BB suitable for such a project
    It IS appreciated
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  13. #13
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    Really looking forward to this!!!!




    Now get on with it!!!!

  14. #14
    A Surly Maverick
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    Crank clearance is not a problem.......

    TMS BB ordered !

    Now I`m thinking about how to adapt my Alfine to fit as well.......
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  15. #15
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Alfine is disk, right? There's gotta be a way to make an adapter that bolts into the disk flange, that would extend the shell and support a wide enough axle, maybe even have a second flange on it to widen the spoking as well.... Basically, the opposite of what Salsa's adapter does. They adapt the frame, this would adapt the hub.

  16. #16
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    Hope makes disk spacers.

    I bought some because I'm going to use a rear hub on the front (once I've got the fork built).
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  17. #17
    How much does it weigh?
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    Lathe, we need one now.

    Such an adapter would be mega easy to make.

  18. #18
    A Surly Maverick
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    Al block arrived in the post

    Lots of measuring up later and new widened and extended pivot blocks marked up .

    Bolt and pivot holes marked as well.

    Will get the table saw out this week end and rough them out (hopefully!)

    Will then need to have a word with the plant engineers at work about using their Pillar Drill.

    IF that all goes ok, will then need to preform an `amputation` on the existing rear triangle followed by `transplantation` !

    Pix
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-mu1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-mu2.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  19. #19
    How much does it weigh?
    Reputation: Borgschulze's Avatar
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    This is a project I could tackle with a cheap MIG welder and steel instead of aluminum.

    Almost makes me want to find a cheap Palomino frame as well.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood !

    Will get the table saw out this week end and rough them out (hopefully!)

    Will then need to have a word with the plant engineers at work about using their Pillar Drill.
    I'm not sure if you had considered it already, but it may be easier to drill the holes in the block before shaping it. Otherwise you'll have to find a way to hold the curvy piece and get the holes perfectly aligned and parallel.

  21. #21
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    I'm not sure if you had considered it already, but it may be easier to drill the holes in the block before shaping it. Otherwise you'll have to find a way to hold the curvy piece and get the holes perfectly aligned and parallel.

    Good point, well made
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  22. #22
    Muskoka
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    wow!

    That's very cool, Doc. Sure wish I had the skills for a project like this.
    https://get.google.com/albumarchive/...127?source=pwa

    RSD Bikes "The Mayor"
    Rocky Mountain Sherpa Overland

  23. #23
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog
    That's very cool, Doc. Sure wish I had the skills for a project like this.

    Only time will tell IF my skills ARE up to the job
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  24. #24
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    Are you going to re-heat treat or just wing it?
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  25. #25
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Are you going to re-heat treat or just wing it?
    That will depend on who i can get to do the welding
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  26. #26
    A Surly Maverick
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    I`m having thoughts about structural adhesives combined with a (aluminium) doweled joint to add to structural integrity rather than welding..........

    Anyone have any experiences in this area ?

    Thanks,
    Dr FG.
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  27. #27
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    I remember Raleigh used 'glue' with their Dyna-Tech frames many many moons ago. With the dowel added for a mechanical join I think it should be fine. Saves having to possibly re-jig it or true it up as the weld heats and cools pulling it all out of alignment.

  28. #28
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    Well I seem to remember "screwed and glued" but I'm not sure it was really threaded.

    I have an old Alan al road frame that is glued together. I never put that many miles on it and it's flexy as butta butt it never broke. Even road it as a cross bike for a while with Moots Mounts on the front fork for cantilevers.

    If you can use the meaty parts from the old triangle and insert that into your new yokes it would help.

    Pins would also possibly help with keeping it from moving around and working its way loose.

    I roll pinned my prototype H type bars to keep them from rotating at a junction and they never did. Creaked a bit though.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  29. #29
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    weld it, true it, heat treat it, true it.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood !
    I`m having thoughts about structural adhesives combined with a (aluminium) doweled joint to add to structural integrity rather than welding..........
    Anyone have any experiences in this area ?...
    I would happily glue a bike together, especially a lugged one.

    I have been nursing thoughts of unbrazing my Flying Scot and re-doing it with 953, but Reynolds are a bit tight with that tubing I figured I could try epoxy first and if it wasn't satisfactory, I could silver solder it.

    I've done a bit of stuff using epoxies, mainly on boats. I'm a great believer in the process.

    Many years ago I even glued the water jacket of a cylinder head back together. It was cracked. It was a vintage car and I couldn't risk having the head warped by welding. So I got in touch with Ciba-Geigy and they sent me some special epoxy (no guarantees ). I smashed the cylinder head along the crack to remove the pieces and glued it all back together. It was still ok 6 months later when I left the UK for Oz, and as far as I know it didn't give the next bloke any trouble.

    Surface preparation is key though, absolutely grease free and a dilute acid wash is a good idea. Avoid any situation where there are peeling forces.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  31. #31
    A Surly Maverick
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    Surface preparation is key though, absolutely grease free and a dilute acid wash is a good idea. Avoid any situation where there are peeling forces.[/QUOTE]

    Forgive the question, but what do you mean by `peeling forces' ?

    Update:-
    TMS BB on it`s way, M5 tap set and 4.2mm drill arrived.

    Awaiting 16mm and 20mm core drills.......

    When they arrive, I will be using a Pillar drill to bore the required holes in the new ( as yet uncut) pivot blocks.

    THEN, I will rough cut and hand finish them.

    Thinking more and more about using a metal dowel and structural adhesives to join the chainstays.

    Seatstays will be probably bolted AND glued to the new aluminium yoke which will be 30mm wider and 40mm longer.

    The wait is killing me
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  32. #32
    How much does it weigh?
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    I'm excited for you

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScaryJerry
    weld it, true it, heat treat it, true it.
    And what is the correct procedure for 6061? I had the info but I can't find it.

    Something like heat to 1000 degrees F for and hour. Quench it in something. Water/oil/salt solution/air.?? True it. Then artificially age it at 300 (and something) degrees for 8 hours and let it cool.

    I'm searching for more specifics but so far I can't find it.

    I'm wondering if it could be DIY if you can get the 1000'F part taken care of? Quenching shouldn't be to hard and aging could be done in the oven.

    Taking it to someone to heat treat it might be expensive and unless they are used to dealing with bicycle parts they might not have ease at truing the parts.

    Anybody have the skinny?
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood !
    ...Forgive the question, but what do you mean by `peeling forces' ?...
    Bit like when you have a sticker. You can't pull it off vertically, but if you apply negative pressure at (lift up) one edge you can move it a little bit at that point. Keep doing it and it can peel off, because most the force is being applied in a limited area rather than distributed.

    Sort of like how a strong rivetted structure can be "unzipped" if you start at one end and the material can flex slightly, eg Titanic and the iceberg
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  35. #35
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    Bit like when you have a sticker. You can't pull it off vertically, but if you apply negative pressure at (lift up) one edge you can move it a little bit at that point. Keep doing it and it can peel off, because most the force is being applied in a limited area rather than distributed.

    Sort of like how a strong rivetted structure can be "unzipped" if you start at one end and the material can flex slightly, eg Titanic and the iceberg

    Thanks
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  36. #36
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    Hi Dr. Feelygood! I also have some experience using structural adhesives to bond aluminum and have some advice that might be useful.

    If you choose to go that route you need to get the maximum possible overlap between the two parts that will be connected. You need to introduce the largest area of adhesive layer you possibly can so you can distribute the forces acting on the adhesive. If you have sufficient overlap you can make it as strong or stronger that a welded joint.

    This however will not guarantee the durability of the connection. As velobike said you need to be very careful with surface preparation or else you will see premature failure. I would recommend lightly sandblasting the surface and then cleaning it thoroughly with a volatile degreaser (acetone is nice). Also, you need to shield the exposed parts of the adhesive layer from direct sunlight or else the UV rays will start breaking it apart after some months.

    For the adhesive I recommend a two part epoxy. There are various companies who sell these adhesives. Try to find something that cures at room temperature in a few hours and is compatible with aluminum.

    Hope this helps

  37. #37
    A Surly Maverick
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    Thanks for the info and experience 350plus

    I have been researching the subject too.

    I think I will also use an acid etch surface prep as from what i have read, this significantly increases the strength of the bond.

    I am `hopeful` that a part mechanical (doweled) and part adhesive bond will work best in this application.

    Cheers,
    Dr FG
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  38. #38
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    Yeah the mixed connection should work ok. You'll get some extra stifness and backup if something fails.

    Regarding the treatment... I have made some comparisons between the sandblasting and the acid etching... in my opinion aciding etching is not worth the trouble of dealing with the acids and other nasty chemicals... especially if you use chromic acid (the most effective for this purpose). I've treated a fair amount of aluminium parts with acid but not by my choice, it is full of really toxic substances.

  39. #39
    A Surly Maverick
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    Update.....

    HOLES .

    TAPPED.

    SCREWED.

    RESPRAY.

    Movin` on
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-rs2.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-rs3.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-rs5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-rs1.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  40. #40
    A Surly Maverick
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    The bolts fit (phew!)

    No unpleasant shocks
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-rs6.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-rs7.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  41. #41
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    Halfway here....
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  42. #42
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    Do you have the Maverick link coming for this thing? I love my Palomino so I am little torn on this project. What are you trying to do with this in the end?
    Live fast, Die young, Leave a good looking corpse!

  43. #43
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    Trek made a disk adapter for that works with this era of kleins, but I might be a little confused about what you are trying to do here.
    Live fast, Die young, Leave a good looking corpse!

  44. #44
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    I have come to conclusion that a conversion would be easier if you start with a 29er.

    I've been fiddling around with 26" hardtail frames and there's too many compromises to the geometry for my liking. You can make a fat bike out of a 26", but if you start with a 29er all the geometry is going to fall into place because the wheel size of a 29er is more or less the same as a fatbike.

    With a 26" you basically have to make a new backend, ie stretch and space the seat and chain stays, whereas with a 29er, spacing the stays out wider is all you have to do.

    On the 26" to preserve the BB height and headangle, you need the dropout approximately 35mm further back and 35mm higher. You need a front fork with an A-C of 440mm - the Pug fork is 447mm so that would be ok.

    My On-One Scandal 29er is quivering in the corner as I type this - it's seen my hacksaw handiwork on the other frames
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  45. #45
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    Bump, I want to watch this too
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  46. #46
    A Surly Maverick
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    Hi Guys,
    still work in progress

    I do have a Maverick Palomino Upgrade link on order.

    I`m just in the process of acquiring a bandsaw to aid the `roughing out` of the new longer and wider pivot blocks.

    What I am trying to do is simple....... create a 4" front and rear sus Fatbike

    Regarding Geo, I`m going with the current plans and will see how it rides !

    PS:- I do have the disc adaptor already.
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  47. #47
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    With the rear suspension you can alter the suspension unit length and avoid the issues that a hardtail presents for modification.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  48. #48
    A Surly Maverick
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    Status report.........

    Maverick Palomino kit has arrived in the UK

    STILL no sign of the TMS BB

    Draper Bandsaw has arrived to aid with cutting the new pivot blocks out (roughing them out by hand was roughing me up!).

    I removed the none drive side mainframe cable guides prior to re-spraying.

    The rear brake and Alfine cabling will follow the internal frame guides.

    Klein stickers in silver in place........ more to follow
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-pal1.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  49. #49
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    Looking good. If you get stuck with the TMS BB, you can borrow mine. I'm a bit behind you in the frame construction/mutilation front.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  50. #50
    A Surly Maverick
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    Thanks VB, I appreciate the offer

    I`m hoping it`s just been delayed due to the Weather !
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  51. #51
    A Surly Maverick
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    The point of NO return

    WARNING :- Power tool content

    Rear spacing is 170mm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p2.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p3.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p4.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p6.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-p7.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  52. #52
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    The word courageous comes to mind

    Great, I love homebrewed bodges.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  53. #53
    All fat, all the time.
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    You are brave very cool project!

  54. #54
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    Looking Good, It's always fun to cut into a perfectly good part on a quest to make it better. This looks like a great project.

  55. #55
    will rant for food
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    All right, someone's got a pair...

  56. #56
    Natural Born Killer
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    Well, you've got me hooked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skrufryder View Post
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  57. #57
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    oh yeah.

    as soon as i get my welder i will be opening some bikes up also.

    the revolution has begun.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
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  58. #58
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    Every other forum would say you are nuts!! One forum a guy wanted to make a steerer tube longer and about 10 people tore him a new one. This is just over the top and cool!! Keep the insanity coming!!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee
    ...One forum a guy wanted to make a steerer tube longer and about 10 people tore him a new one...
    The naysayers get the bikes they deserve - boring
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee
    Every other forum would say you are nuts!! One forum a guy wanted to make a steerer tube longer and about 10 people tore him a new one. This is just over the top and cool!! Keep the insanity coming!!
    Sounds like the frame builders forum? I had a similar experience and have seen it done to others. They all said I was stupid/crazy for wanting to do something out of the norm that it would never work and that if I did scale drawings I would see the errors of my unskilled ways. I did the drawings to see if they were right and they were not but by that point I didn't care to tell them and actually haven't been back there. Granted the proposed project may have been a bit impractical but so what. Maybe I liked the challenge.

    I'm also doing something similar to Doc but haven't actually cut yet. (Different project) Getting all the ducks in a row first. I'm almost there. Should be cool if I pull it off.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  61. #61
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    Well, a real man would be doin' this on the dining room table ....... but I'm still impressed as hell
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Sounds like the frame builders forum?
    Yeah I've found I have to post... carefully... in the frame builder forum.

    Sometimes really good info though.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    ...I did the drawings to see if they were right and they were not but by that point I didn't care to tell them and actually haven't been back there. Granted the proposed project may have been a bit impractical but so what....
    Drawings are like written music - a symbology for those who cannot work in the medium without instruction.

    Those who can, do.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  64. #64
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    Nice work DrF.
    3 months and just cut stays? I was hoping to see that block machined by now.

  65. #65
    will rant for food
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    ^^ Real life happens. I wanted my bamboo frame done like four times over by now.

  66. #66
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    Sarcasm was intended.
    Now get that BB bonded and don't worry about the cones tilting the threads in the BB 0.01deg.

  67. #67
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    Nice work DrF.
    3 months and just cut stays? I was hoping to see that block machined by now.
    My angle grinder is an economy model and only does 3 RPM.........so it took a while

    If you think that`s weird the TMS bottom bracket that I ordered from France (in November 10) has been accidentally sent to Holland........and is still in transit

    The evolution of this project is slow... but sure
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Feelygood !
    ...the TMS bottom bracket that I ordered from France (in November 10) has been accidentally sent to Holland........and is still in transit...
    Mine took ages too.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  69. #69
    A Surly Maverick
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    Time for an update.......

    Pix = 10,000 words
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro2.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro3.jpg  

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    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro6.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro7.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro8.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro9.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro10.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  70. #70
    A Surly Maverick
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    One more, now off to the welders
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-ro11.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  71. #71
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    Looking good!

    You still waiting for that TMS BB?
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  72. #72
    A Surly Maverick
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    Looking good!

    You still waiting for that TMS BB?
    I`m afraid so

    Sent off another Email this AM.......

    It`s been over 4 months now and I have had no replies for over 1 month.

    I really appreciate your offer to lend me yours, but I think it unlikely that I will be receiving one myself , so I couldn`t then replace it for you.

    I`m currently looking at 128mm long 73mm shell BB`s and on my scale drawings it 'looks' like it may still work with the Alfine and possibly even 9 speed as long as I run LM`s (94mm tyre width) or smaller.

    If I can get the TMS 140mm BB (EVENTUALLY) 80mm rims should be fine (98mm tyre width), with good clearance.

    Cheers,
    Dr FG
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  73. #73
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    I'll take a chance on that. You need to get that creation on the road.

    Just PM your address.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  74. #74
    A Surly Maverick
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    Thanks VB
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  75. #75
    bikeboatbrewski
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    SAWEEEEEEEEET!

  76. #76
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    Hey DR. Are you going to do any heat treating on the rear triangle once it gets welded? I am doing something similar but am way farther behind than you are. I am looking into heat treating but don't have anything solid to go by yet.

    Nice work!!

    Nolan

  77. #77
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    so sweet. i will have to do an update before the big reveal. I actually got excited that i know how to weld aluminum now.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

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  78. #78
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    All the extended pivot block work and seat stay adaptor formation I have carried out myself.

    I`m not doing the welding myself, I`m leaving that to those that can !

    I HAVE welded before........but it wasn`t good

    As for heat treatment, will see what the welders say.

    Top adaptor is actually bolted in place so doesn`t need welding, but I have asked them to tidy it up a bit.

    Bottom new pivot blocks DO need welding to the existing chainstays so we shall see how that turns out.

    Welding should be done by Friday (hopefully!).
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  79. #79
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    For what it's worth, I used to have a Monty 221 X-Lite Mod trials bike (really light aluminum frame) that I cracked in a few places. I took it down to a local marine welder and he welded it up for me. Didn't look too pretty, and it wasn't heat treated, but it held up for years. And that bike got some major abuse!

    It was the same bike as that ^^^

  80. #80
    will rant for food
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    Keep it up dude =)

  81. #81
    A Surly Maverick
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    Thanks Drew

    Your Bamboo Fatty thread kind of got me motivated again
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  82. #82
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    Good Lord!
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  83. #83
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    Way cool!

  84. #84
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    Off hand I can't remember the actual numbers but when you weld aluminum the weld is fine bit the area right next to it looses something like 50% of it's strength so if it's going to fail that is the spot. You will just have to see how it holds up. With suspension and fat soft tires it might not be an issue.

    I'm behind on my similar project too basically because of the machining of the yokes that I can't get done unless I want to spend big money on it. I've come up with some pretty low tech ways around it that wouldn't be as pretty and also have been thinking of steel lately too. I mean. it is a prototype, so if it's not 100% optimized the first time out it's not the end of the world.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  85. #85
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    Things are crankin` on thanks to the kindness of Velobike who has lent me his TMS BB

    The welding should be done by Monday so then I will turn my attention to the adaptation of the Alfine for a 170mm rear spacing....... I have a plan but we shall see how it goes !

    Thanks again to VB ,

    Cheers,
    Dr FG

    PS:- as you can see, I like my cranks `chunky`
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-bb1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-bb2.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier
    Off hand I can't remember the actual numbers but when you weld aluminum the weld is fine bit the area right next to it looses something like 50% of it's strength so if it's going to fail that is the spot. You will just have to see how it holds up. With suspension and fat soft tires it might not be an issue.

    I'm behind on my similar project too basically because of the machining of the yokes that I can't get done unless I want to spend big money on it. I've come up with some pretty low tech ways around it that wouldn't be as pretty and also have been thinking of steel lately too. I mean. it is a prototype, so if it's not 100% optimized the first time out it's not the end of the world.
    Look forward to your build Modifier

    I `machined` the seatstay yoke and pivot blocks using a Drill Press and an Angle Grinder plus alot of filing and some hacksawing ! The main costs were drills (broke a few ), grinding discs and the drill press which I bought for £80 ($130).

    Don`t know how much the welding will cost, we shall see......
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  87. #87
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    Welding completed thanks to Andy at Joss Engineering

    http://www.josseng.com/profile.cfm

    Yes, it IS industrial welding

    Salsa Mukluk rear adaptor was adapted with a Pillar drill, angle grinder and some filing.

    135mm hub shown in situ.

    165mm hub on it`s way.

    Alfine fettling still in progress......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-w1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-w2.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-w3.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-w4.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-w5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-w6.jpg  

    Last edited by Dr Feelygood !; 04-26-2011 at 12:05 PM.
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  88. #88
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    Looking awesome.

    It must be really good to see the end so close after so many months

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350plus
    Looking awesome.

    It must be really good to see the end so close after so many months
    Yes it is But I`m a patient (slow) Guy

    Really pleased with the end result as it has welded up true !
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  90. #90
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    Dr: Awesome job!!

    What did the welder say about heat treating (assuming you asked)? He did a great job welding btw.

    I am still waiting for a block of aluminum to be delivered so my fat fs project can begin.

    Thanks for the motivation!

    Nolan

  91. #91
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    Hey Nolan,
    I asked Andy wrt heat treatment. He said that he took his time and welded slowly and gradually so as to reduce heat stresses.

    There is certainly no warping in the rear triangle that I can detect.

    I think it really helped that the seatstay adapter junction was already bolted in position and a 10mm diameter length of studding maintained the dropout spacing at 170mm.

    In effect that left only the chainstay pivot block interfaces to tack in place prior to welding.

    I had managed to achieve a good close fit here as you can see from the `pre-welded` shots.

    One of the main reasons that I chose this frame was the `bolted` design to try and minimize structural welding.

    Cheers,
    Dr FG
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  92. #92
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    Thanks Dr,

    Lots of good info on this thread and it will help me a lot when I get my project started.

    I will have to heat treat my rear end once it is welded. From what I have read, once 6xxx series aluminum is welded, it should be heat treated so it will go back to it's original strength. I am big and am very hard on bikes so avoiding any kind of failure in the future is my main concern. Trying to find someone local to do the heat treating, so once it gets welded I can bring it right there. But I'm sure there will be many other problems to run into before that road is crossed.

    I think because of your bolted and welded design you may not run into this problem.

    Looking forward to seeing it built up and a ride report!!

    -Nolan

  93. #93
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    The end is in sight ! The rear end that is......

    After some debate and alot of frustration with `threads` (more of which later), I couldn`t wait any longer and ordered a Lawwill 165mm 12mm TA Hub for the Fat RS project.

    Reason that I went for this and not the Goldtec Draco (36h) was due to the fact that I have gone for Trialtec rims again (as used with my Pugs Duc 32) which are 32h only.

    I planned on getting a simple axel converter machined up. I contacted a firm here in the UK that I would have BETteD could sort this out.

    Initial contact good, measured up with Vernier Calipers and sent a drawing. Asked for price for TA and QR version.

    Reply quotes £75 to £100 but did not specify if this was for both or one only.......

    Emailed back and asked, indicated that if this was for one only that I may have to respectfully decline.

    No reply for a few weeks, so I rang them. Turns out the price quoted was for ONE !

    I was surprised to say the least. This was a simple case of turning two ends of stock 12mm bar (which they had) down to 10mm and threading them at M10.

    Sooooo...........how to sort it out. Looked on Ebay and found an axel for motor scooters at 10mm diameter and 210mm long (£4.48), ideal !

    Next ordered 2 lengths of nested copper plumbing pipe that allowed me to `shim` the Hub down from 12mm to 10.3mm, cost £5. Greased it all up, slid it together an away we go.

    Just needed 2 M10 nuts with 1.25mm thread, local bike shop obliged for £1.

    Total cost £11 and runs smoooooth

    Trialtec rim added by LBS, DH tube and Endo (measures at 88mm wide)

    Bolted in and fits with LOTS of clearance and very stiff !

    Some Pix for your patience

    Seatstay and chainstay clearance shown. Lots of drop through mud room.
    Final shot from below Maverick Monolink and shock body showing 'adjustment' marks from angle grinder !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-h1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-h2.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-h3.jpg  

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    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-h5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-h6.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  94. #94
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    The fun involved in building a fatbike is educational
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  95. #95
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    Great to see it come together.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

    http://undergroundvelo.proboards.com/

  96. #96
    A Surly Maverick
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    Hi Guys,
    thought you might like an update

    I really like this bike and I`m using it for, well, everthing !

    I`ve made a few changes since the `reveal`.

    H bars swapped to On One Marys, because I`ve gone from 1by 8 to a 2 by 8 setup; so I needed more shifter room.

    I had to `modify` the E type derallieur using a hacksaw to remove the max swing stop and a 12mm 4mm dia machine screw to acheived an initially much wider low stop position (although a 15mm would be better).

    I`ve used Sram X4 shifters ( a first for me, usually use shimano) and like them.

    I got some `Fatties Flatties` pedals off the `bay and do like them as well.

    Finally put a small crud catcher behind the rear shock body to protect the rear pivots from back wheel spray.

    Some figures........

    As you see her inc all the mudguards, dropper post etc, 40.1lbs.

    Could she be lighter, sure, probably about 3-5lbs lighter if required, but I like `burley` builds.

    BB height is 14.5" unsagged.

    Standover is 33" mid TT.

    Wheel base is 46".

    The Headbadge I made using an old Fosters beer can and some tin snips.

    Still making me SMILE
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs1.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs2.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs3.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs4.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs5.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs6.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs7.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs8.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs9.jpg  

    Fattening up a Pony..... The quest for a Fat RS begins !-frs10.jpg  

    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  97. #97
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    Nicely done. you inspired me to make such a build myself. I have the frame now and some alumium, now need to find some time to cut en fit it. As soon as I have more info, then I will start a thread.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by red_vfr View Post
    Nicely done. you inspired me to make such a build myself. I have the frame now and some alumium, now need to find some time to cut en fit it. As soon as I have more info, then I will start a thread.
    Hey that`s great to hear !

    Feel free to PM me if there are any aspects you are unsure about .

    Cheers,
    Dr FG
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  99. #99
    Natural Born Killer
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    Wow! Great job!
    Quote Originally Posted by Skrufryder View Post
    Silly rabbit Jack Daniel drinking donkey kissing caterpiller

  100. #100
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    Great project. I've just had something similar done to an old Marin. I'd hoped it was the first full-suss-fat bike in the UK but happy to be beaten to it!

    Will do some pics later (already on stw for anyone interested)

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