Fat rims

[alanm]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a "bullet proof, I don't care about the weight" 32 hole 26" rim? (non offset)

I had a look at the US Choppers rim but after a bit of research I discovered it only comes in a 36 hole....bugga....

I've got a Surly Rolling Darryl Rim Black w/out Cutouts coming from the guys at Fatbikes.com, thanks guys , but am putting it out there to see what may come up.

Al

[Macbeth]

I've been riding large marge's on my Mukluk, and riding mega rocky 'maybe a six inch travel trail bike would be better' kinds of trails and they are holding up amazing... Gonna build me a set of Daryls and see... You'd have to try hard to kill a Marge I think...

[alanm]

Oops, forgot to mention in my original post, I want to go wider than a Marge. MacBeth, I agree, I have a set now.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the rear will be carrying up to about 120 Kg ( 260 lbs) at times.

Al

[Velobike]

The traditional way to make a more bulletproof wheel was to use more spokes, but you've ordered your rims so that's not on.

FYI:

It would have been simpler to get a 36 hole hub and work from there. The 36 hole rims are considerably cheaper too. (Nothing wrong with 32 hole)

The US Chopper rims look like rebadged Weinmann DHL rims. I've been abusing mine without any hassles.

[mikesee]

Originally Posted by alanm

Oops, forgot to mention in my original post, I want to go wider than a Marge. MacBeth, I agree, I have a set now.

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the rear will be carrying up to about 120 Kg ( 260 lbs) at times.

Al

You need a doublewall rim, period.

36 spokes will help.

With that kind of load, expect to replace spokes, maybe even rims, every other year.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Originally Posted by alanm

Does anyone have any suggestions for a "bullet proof, I don't care about the weight" 32 hole 26" rim? (non offset)

I had a look at the US Choppers rim but after a bit of research I discovered it only comes in a 36 hole....bugga....

I've got a Surly Rolling Darryl Rim Black w/out Cutouts coming from the guys at Fatbikes.com, thanks guys , but am putting it out there to see what may come up.

Al

Al, is there a particular reason you want 32 holes? Special hubs you want to run?
Andy

[alanm]

Guys,

Thanks for the replies,

Andy, I own a Rohloff that's going to be laced into it. As I'm sure you're well aware, it's.......32 holes.

Mikesee, RE; double wall, yea, I know, it's why I was looking at the US Chopper rims, I even toyed with the idea of redrilling to 32 holes and blind riveting the existing holes that wouldn't be used.

A bit more info; it's for a fat cargo bike I'm building up as a bit of an experiment. I do remote area rides here in Oz and as I'm pushing further and further out into the deserts unsupported, lack of water is becoming a real issue. With this latest project I will have the capability of carrying 2 x 20L (5.28 US Gal) 'Jerry' cans on the rear. At present I carry up to 30 L (7.95 US Gal) with 25 L of that on a modded BOB trailer. The huge drawback with the existing model is drag, particularly in loose sandy conditions and whilst scaling sand dunes. It also creates a unique set of issues whilst desending hills, whether they be sand or firm. By shifting the weight to the bike, I'll negate those issues to a large degree.

Here's a pic of the 'Project' bike.

[Velobike]

Originally Posted by alanm

...it's why I was looking at the US Chopper rims, I even toyed with the idea of redrilling to 32 holes and blind riveting the existing holes that wouldn't be used.

...and as I'm pushing further and further out into the deserts unsupported, lack of water is becoming a real issue. With this latest project I will have the capability of carrying 2 x 20L (5.28 US Gal) 'Jerry' cans on the rear....

I redrilled my rims to 32 for use with my Alfine. I was lazy though, I just cut out tiny squares of tape to cover the unwanted holes.

I know what you mean by the need to carry water. You have to have enough to get to the next waterhole and back (in case it's empty). About 10 years ago I built up a bike for an overland to Longreach from NQ. I was going to follow the old drove routes, but had to allow for waterholes being dry. My biggest problem was carrying the water. I did lots of tests and almost every lightweight container I tried chafed through on extended use on rough ground. With a bit more room I could have used proper jerry cans. One problem with big solid containers like those is that the fluid slopping around when they are half full can upset stability. I prefer bags, but at the time I didn't find anything tough enough. I considered (but didn't try) putting an inflatable bag in to take up the airspace to cut slop.

What you have built there is exactly what I would go for if I was doing it now, right down to the Rohloff hub*. Brilliant bike!


* Some tandem riders are redrilling their Rohloff hubs to 48 holes. It may be worth considering doing that to the hub and rim with the loads you'll have.

Edit: just checked through my old emails. I had some discussion with Jakub Postrzygacz before he did his Canning Stock Route ride 7 years ago. He used bags for carrying water.

[mikesee]

Awesome project, Al.

And please don't take this the wrong way, but sooner than later (probably sooner) you're going to shear the steerer (or some other critical part) on that fork. It just isn't meant to take the abuse you're putting on it--even cruising mellow pavement.

I'd just hate to see ya get hurt is all.

Best of luck,

MC

[alanm]

Hey Velo,

Great info.

So I take it you've had no trouble with the 'redrill'...... as for redrilling the 'R', I'd never thought of that, I quite like that idea. I think I'll buy one of the US Cycle rims and look at drilling it to a 48 hole and matching the R to suit.

I like your idea of an inflateable bag to stop the sloshing about. Another way is to get a heap of nylon swarf and shove that in. The military use a simular system (not nylon) in fuel tanks to help stop 'em blowing up when hit bu a shell

I've just purchased a book called "The Long Paddock" about the droving routes in NSW.

My trips tend to take me into the remote parts of WA.

Al

[nm13]

FYI - 36 Hole Phil Wood Hub Shell for Rohloff Hub « Phil Wood & Co
Not sure if these are available or not or how much they cost. Rohloff came out with a 36 hole hub but are not making the shells available for retrofit.

[alanm]

Mikesee, that's an interesting comment. Feel free to elaborate, I don't want to have to walk home..... or worse still, have to hit the button on a resuce...

Cheers,
Al

[alanm]

mm13, Thanks for that, I'll chase it up.

Al

[alanm]

Velo,
I have the bags Jakub used, I use them in my sea kayak. I'm going for the Jerries because these particular units are quite special, they're named "Lifesaver" I already use one of their bottles and can vouch for it's integrity.

MC, mate, you've got me dangling on the end of a rope.... .... I need more info 'cuz its driving me....

Al

[Steve Balogh]

Originally Posted by alanm

Velo,
I have the bags Jakub used, I use them in my sea kayak. I'm going for the Jerries because these particular units are quite special, they're named "Lifesaver" I already use one of their bottles and can vouch for it's integrity.

MC, mate, you've got me dangling on the end of a rope.... .... I need more info 'cuz its driving me....

Al

Is that 260lbs include your own weight, or additional load on the rear? Think what would happen if your cruising downhill at a good clip and for whatever reason had to slam on your brakes. Or - a steep hill where you keep hitting your brakes.

You might want to bring extra rotors and pads too, if your route has a lot of significant hills.

[alanm]

Steve, The 260 includes me. Don't worry, when in the hills I'll be riding accordingly..... and to help, it'll run 203 rotors front and rear. Most of the touring it'll do will be like the following.

Cheers,
Al

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1330869167

and this

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1330869372

although, at times, it may be like this........

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.ph...1&d=1330869372

[Velobike]

Alan, try to get hold of a book called "The Bicycle and the Bush" by Jim Fitzpatrick. It's about early cycling in Oz.

What may appeal to you are the chapters on the mining areas including Coolgardie and the old overland cycling routes. Huge distances were covered by the hard men of the old days with a fraction of the gear we now consider necessary. If you're out bush, there's a lot more history out there than you may think.

(If you can't find a copy, I'll lend you mine.)

As far as the forks are concerned, in your shoes I'd be riding rigid and relying on the tyres for suspension. If you're 100 odd miles from the centre of nowhere, a fork collapse is slight nuisance.

Who made your frame? It looks like it covers all the bases.

Just to encourage you, here's a pic of some early record breakers from the book


Francis Birtles, Warren & Robert Lennie, at Eucla WA, 1907. Lennies attempting Perth-Sydney record. Riding what are basically 29er fixed wheel bikes. Tyres were 2" which were the fattest available in their day, so maybe they are honorary fatbike riders.

For those who don't know Oz, it's worth checking a map and looking at the distance of Eucla from anywhere to get an idea of how far these guys were riding without any chance of support.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Originally Posted by alanm

Mikesee, that's an interesting comment. Feel free to elaborate, I don't want to have to walk home..... or worse still, have to hit the button on a resuce...

Cheers,
Al

I would agree with Mike. The SC32 is not enough fork for that much bike or that much of a load. That much weight and force on a fork that is already pretty flexy to begin with is most likely going to result in a higher rate of fatigue and early failure.
You would be better off with a double-crown fork, of which there are several options that will fit fat tires.

[Rabies010]

Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon

I
You would be better off with a double-crown fork, of which there are several options that will fit fat tires.

Several options, i thought the DUC-32was the only one ?
And that one is narrower at the top, so you can't go as wide as on a SC-32.
A better solution would be the fat-specific fork that is used by SANDMAN but that still has a single crown.

[coldbike]

Isn't there a new white brothers double crown fork that will clear?
I would also go easy on the front brake o a bike like this. A fully loaded bike will place lots of strain on the fork when you hit the brakes.

[4&20-9er]

I have an older WB dual crown dh fork on my tandem. It weighs a ton, but I had the local shock guy lower the travel, the forks are pretty much totally rebuildable and adjustable if you can find the right size springs. I've pondered throwing it on the mukluk as there would be plenty of tire clearance... In your case the extra couple of pounds on the front end would probably be negligible.

[alanm]

Hi guys, thanks for replies.... (Hey!, I'm a bit of a poet.... )

Some valid points have been made regarding both brakes and forks.As 4&20-9er says, a few extra pounds on this rig is neglible, in fact, from past experience towing a trailer, one needs weight up the front to keep the rig managable. I'll be riding this bike accordingly when I'm on it. When I set out with this I did so as an experiment. For this reason I'm not sinking too much money into it initially. I'm using parts I already own and off other bikes of mine. The bike only cost me 400 bucks and was a bought with the realization that it may not work. I've only ridden the thing 15 Km and that was through the streets of Melbourne to the bike shop. I have a criterion that it has to fullfill and tucked away in that is a front sus fork for the corrugations, which have a tendency to hammer my shoulders after hours in the saddle. One of the issues with a double crown fork is the lack of height that can be achieved for the handle bars. With the type of touring I do, on the roads and tracks, or lack thereof, I use, the most comfortable, and therefore the most efficient way of sitting is nearly upright. (efficiency in remote area, solo touring is measured very differently to that of a day rider with support or a nice warm house awaiting them at the end of a ride for example, in that it encompasses ones mental state at the end of the day or any time during that day, because one has to be able to make rational decisions regarding ones well being. If one is badly fatigued, rational decisions become irrational which can result in a lift home in a wooden casket!! This would definitely put a dent in one's day!!) If I go to a double crown fork I have to work out a way of extending the steerer tube quite a bit, not that that is imposable, but it costs $$ and until I'm comfortable this will all work I'm not prepared to drop the $$ on the table.

Velo, I own a copy of that book, great read and a real inspiration. Check out the state of the wheel on page 134, makes one realize nothing is impossible!!!

OK guys, keep the thoughts and suggestions coming, it's good for my grey matter......:

BTW, the shake down ride has been planned, an 800 Km (approx) ride encomposing dirt roads, a salt lake crossing, about 200 Km of sandy twin track and a bit of tar thrown in for good measure. Distance between reliable water will vary between 100 and 300 Km's. There is only one town on the whole route, approx 120 to 150 from the start of the ride. Stay tuned!!!!

[Velobike]

Originally Posted by alanm

....a front sus fork for the corrugations...

...BTW, the shake down ride has been planned, an 800 Km (approx) ride encomposing dirt roads, a salt lake crossing, about 200 Km of sandy twin track and a bit of tar thrown in for good measure. Distance between reliable water will vary between 100 and 300 Km's. There is only one town on the whole route, approx 120 to 150 from the start of the ride. Stay tuned!!!!

I'd forgotten the corrugations. Getting soft from living in the UK, luckily I'll be back in Oz (Qld) next month for a month or two. Since seeing your intended ride I've been having fun cruising along outback roads using Google streetview as a poor substitute for being there.

Just remember there's a big difference between the distance (timewise) to accessible water when you're on the bike compared to on foot, when a serious mechanical may put you in the position of having to hoof it. A walk starting at the halfway point of 300km would be no joke. (Something I nearly learned the hard way when I lived out west.)

[alanm]

Hey Velo, QLD will be a nice change from UK!

I wont be walking if it all goes pear shaped!!!! I'll sit tight, phone my Brother on the sat phone and he'll jump in my 4WD and come and get me. I leave a sat phone, GPS and my fully prepped 4WD with 250 L of fuel anf 40 L of water in it at his farm for 'rescue' missions. To date I've he's never had to come and get me. Fingers crossed. Part of this shake down ride will be to see how well this rig carries the 2 x 20 L jerry cans of water, so I'll have plenty of water to sit around with whilst I wait.

BTW, I think the frame is a Chinese knock off of an early Kona Ute. It's made from high tensile steel from what I can ascertain, which is handy for bush welding repairs should they be required.

If you're cruising around Google Earth, the ride goes from Laverton and back to Mukinbudin via the Eastern side of Lake Carey, cross it to Menzies, out to Deimels, down to Mt Jackson, along the rabbit proof fence, into the wheat belt, down to Mukinbudin and then 20 K's out to home

Al

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Originally Posted by Rabies010

Several options, i thought the DUC-32was the only one ?
And that one is narrower at the top, so you can't go as wide as on a SC-32.
A better solution would be the fat-specific fork that is used by SANDMAN but that still has a single crown.

Along with the DUC32, there's also the White Bros. Groove forks, and I think the Risse Trixxy would probably have enough clearance as well. Those are both double crown inverted downhill forks, but since both the companies that manufacturer them will do custom work you could most likely get one built with reduced travel. ATC suspension also might be able to build you a fork that would have enough clearance.

ATC Xcountry Bicycle Suspension Forks
Risse Racing - Downhill Mountain Bike Forks
Mountain Racing Products home of MRP, White Brothers, Kreitler, Tamer, and Power Grips | GROOVE

You could also look around for an old Marzocchi Shiver SC or a Manitou Dorado SC- they are not longer produced, but are both single crown inverted forks that are stouter than the SC32.
German-A has approved the Sandman forks for tandem use with a steel steer tube, so that would be another possibility.