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  1. #1
    This place needs an enema
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    Fat fully w/remote air.



    >>>> Link <<<<.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    conjoinicorned
    Reputation: ferday's Avatar
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    that looks like what i wish my trail bike was now

    i'd like to see a different picture, unique looking linkage, from this angle at least

    edit: finally got their website to load and took a peek at the linkage. neat idea, i use a lot of linear bearings for work and i'm not sure this is a good application but cool nonetheless
    Last edited by ferday; 04-29-2013 at 12:21 PM.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  3. #3
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    Damn

  4. #4
    NMBP
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday View Post
    that looks like what i wish my trail bike was now

    i'd like to see a different picture, unique looking linkage, from this angle at least
    The rear tire travels parallel to the front linkage, it's on a sliding linear bearing. Interesting concept, I doubt that it will ever be more than just a concept though.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferday View Post
    that looks like what i wish my trail bike was now

    i'd like to see a different picture, unique looking linkage, from this angle at least
    Hit the link. There's a slide show, with a closeup of the linkage.

    Not a big lover of complexity, but I'd be interested to see how it works. Head angle looks super slack.

  6. #6
    will rant for food
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    I feel all tingly! EDIT: The detail on how the frame itself also doubles as an air tank. Hell yes.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  7. #7
    will rant for food
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    To clarify, I'm not sure I'd own this bike.

    But the notion that someone built it, I'd be the guy in the background:

    Latitude: 44.93 N

  8. #8
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    neat, wouldn't go with linear travel myself, but definitely proof that a wide swingarm'd heckler would work
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  9. #9
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    I had seen a couple photos before, and noticed a strange rear suspension design, but this is the first closer view of the rear triangle I have seen. I guess no pivot points here, or maybe a single pivot, with the pivot point being pushed out to infiniti.
    I wonder if it has linear bearings or probably just plain bearings/bushings like a fork.
    I still can't see if there is a second shaft on the other side, or do they use the seat tube as the other shaft, with some kind of split clamp/bearing.
    If linear travel was the goal, I think it would be best to use a square, or triangular seat tube with needle rollers like a lefty.

  10. #10
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    No pivots. Looks like the rear triangle travels straight up and down on 2 parallel tubes. From pic 2 of 23: "The rear axle mimics the same rearward path as the front fork as the rear triangle slides up and down on two shafts using recirculating ball bearings."

    Some more pics here: Devise Cycles
    and here: Devise Cycles

  11. #11
    Dr Gadget is IN
    Reputation: wadester's Avatar
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    Judging by the next shot - two symmetrical linear bearings separate from the seattube:
    Fat fully w/remote air.-s780_bt_20130421_untitled_shoot_015.jpg

    And those had better be linear ball bearings - if they are bushings, it will be the king of stiction. The chain tension will be putting one heck of a side load on that. It also looks like the chain length will grow as it travels up, which means that pedal pressure stiffens it up.

    More of an issue is the two steel bar raceways being a tad bit heavy - but it's an interesting suspension approach.

    The hubs don't look like true fatbike parts - Adaptrac - Adaptable Traction Control for Mountain Bikes only lists 15mm thru axle front and 12 x 142 rear hubs.

    On the other hand, if you check their pricelist they do offer guage sets in 0-15psi and 0-30psi for fatbikes vs the 0-60psi "normal" set.
    Fatbikes are much more fun than they should be allowed to be!

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  12. #12
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    I just don't know of any kind of linear or ball bearings that will work on a round shaft.
    please tell me what you all are talking about.

    I don't think chain tension will be the biggest thing causing stiction, rather the torque from the axle being that far from the sliders.

    Edit: I think I found the linear bearings like you are taliking about, but they are roughly twice the diameter of the shaft they ride on in the appropriate load ratings to even handle the static weight of a bike and rider. I don't see any strong enough for the loads of hitting bumps.
    the outer tubes don't look big enough to hold them either.
    Last edited by autodoctor911; 04-29-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  13. #13
    NONDURO
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    Those dudes had a booth set up at the Sea Otter Classic this year (2013). I stopped by (on my 9:zero:7) and chatted with them for about 20 minutes after my XC race on Sunday. Seems as though the system is capable of 5 cycles for both front and rear tires between 5 to 25 psi (not that anyone would ever need to go above 16 psi in a fatbike tire). Amazingly simple system, obviously the air valve goes through the hub on the right side and into the presta valve on a standard presta tube. Twin air pressure gauges mounted on the handlebar indicate the pressure for the front and rear tubes. That full suspension setup was surprisingly lightweight, I was pretty impressed. The most expensive part of the bike of course was the Maverick DUC32 fork.
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  14. #14
    not FAT free
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    i could be wrong but duc is modified too, looks wider and has lower crown with clamp - not welded

  15. #15
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    Re-invention of plunger suspension but a different angle.

    Interesting.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  16. #16
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Interesting. I like outside the box thinking, but I can't say as this speaks to me personally.

    The air bit seems superfluous, maybe they have needs I don't though?

    The suspension, I just can't wrap my brain around. They mention that no one knows just what fat tires might do for, or to, full suspension, but they don't seem to mention how their system addresses that? Or did I miss something? Much like all the VPP/DW stuff, seems like an engineers on paper wet dream, but one who never actually uses said creation in it's intended environment.

    Give me a nice solid, simple design, and we're talking, as far as I'm concerned. The Salsa comes to mind, or perhaps a Lenz? Fewer moving parts, fewer proprietary froo froo's, etc. That system looks like it would get eaten alive in one rainy ride too, again, I'm not seeing it in person, so I could be very wrong.

    I'm not even opposed to a bit of flashy gee gaw, but it's implementation needs to make sense in some way. I don't race, so having to get off my bike to change tire pressure never really ruined my day, etc.

    Good on 'em for playing with it though!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  17. #17
    Levi Early
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    I stopped and talked with them at sea otter as well. What grabbed my attention was the xx1 crankset on there. After talking with Brant (owner) seems to be that he can make this work with some modifications. I smell a xx1 set up on my mukluk towards the end of the year.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFX big foot View Post
    i could be wrong but duc is modified too, looks wider and has lower crown with clamp - not welded
    Yep, there's a pic of them doing that.
    Devise Cycles

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levi707 View Post
    I stopped and talked with them at sea otter as well. What grabbed my attention was the xx1 crankset on there. After talking with Brant (owner) seems to be that he can make this work with some modifications. I smell a xx1 set up on my mukluk towards the end of the year.
    And a pic of that, too.
    Devise Cycles

  20. #20
    Dr Gadget is IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    I just don't know of any kind of linear or ball bearings that will work on a round shaft.
    please tell me what you all are talking about.

    I don't think chain tension will be the biggest thing causing stiction, rather the torque from the axle being that far from the sliders.

    Edit: I think I found the linear bearings like you are taliking about, but they are roughly twice the diameter of the shaft they ride on in the appropriate load ratings to even handle the static weight of a bike and rider. I don't see any strong enough for the loads of hitting bumps.
    the outer tubes don't look big enough to hold them either.
    Just a quick grab - a linear "ball bushing" in small size 1/4" shaft. 60lb rolling load seems a bit low - but you would have at least 4 of these so that makes it 240 lbs vs chain load (all in one direction) or 120 lbs in suspension mode -resist rotation to hold things in line, tops take backward load bottoms take forward load.
    Name:  prod_rst_Metric_Compact_Thin_Wall_Ball_Bearing_KHP.jpg
Views: 809
Size:  15.7 KB
    GENERAL
    Product Family: Super
    Product Type: Bearing
    MECHANICAL
    Nominal Diameter: 0.25in
    Recommended Shaft: 1/4 L
    Dynamic Load Capacity (lbf): 60

    DIMENSIONS
    [C] Length (in): 0.750/0.735
    [C1] Between Retaining Ring Grooves (in): .511/.501
    [C2] Retaining Ring Groove, min (in): 0.039
    [D] Recommended Housing Bore Diameter-Fixed (in): 0.0015C/0.0000 (doesn't give OD, but looks like 1/2")
    [d] 60 Case Diameter (in): 0.2495/0.2490
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Fatbikes are much more fun than they should be allowed to be!

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  21. #21
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    what do you think the loads will be on the bearings when you hit a 4" tall ledge at 15-20mph though?

  22. #22
    will rant for food
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    I thought about this bike a bit - if the geometry changed a bit I would like to own this sans Adaptrac. Mentally erase the air canister in the front triangle for a moment. Notice that it's a full suspension design, yet the front triangle is damn near empty?!

    Frame bag!
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  23. #23
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    Interesting what that does with the vertical and horizontal components of an impact. Recovery/return may be a little odd, as its horizontal component would be opposing forward movement of the bike. I believe most rear suspensions convert the horizontal component into vertical movement and wheel turn?


    Linear ball bearings are really bad with contaminants, even if it's a recirculating type. Wipers/sweepers are typically used in dirty environments, but typically require frequent cleaning or replacing of the bearing.

    I'd be taking a long look at plastic dry self-lubricating bearings. Like machining a bushing out of Delrin AF for the top and bottom. Loves hard steel. Tolerant of contaminants. Dynamic friction is slightly higher than static friction so movement is smooth (it doesn't take off, or vibrate from slip-stick). Rather cheap, easily machined and tempered (heat treat it at low temp after machining).

  24. #24
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    It seems to me that that sort of design might work better if the rear end traveled on four tracks instead of two on a frame with something like this with the two front tracks in the same place and the rear tracks at or near the dropouts.

  25. #25
    Ride good on the internet
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    This thread gives me a headache.

    Also, what is that terrible bike with he rear rack thing? Any more details on that?

    It's like a road accident. Terrible, but...you can't look away.

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