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Thread: Fat Bike FAQ's

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weinerts View Post
    ...I built a Jabberwockey with a fat front and I noticed that it likes to turn left....
    It's a feature, not a bug.

    The large width low pressure tyres have a lot of grip and this means they can put significant turning torque into the steering. You'll quickly get used to it. You'll also find it varies depending on tyre pressure and camber of the track.

    The turning effect can be reduced if you have control over your frame geometry - ie custom frame etc. I have found a steeper head angle helps minimise this.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  2. #102
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    Thanks

    When I read your reply I heard Donkey telling Puss - "phh- you will learn to control that"

    It only seems to do it riding around the neighborhood, on the trail it seems to great once over about 3 miles an hour.

    I am riding a really small frame, but it has the top tube length that I like.
    I am going to the bike swap meet this weekend (San Diego Velodrome April 22) and will be looking for some alt bars for more control and weight shift possibilities.
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  3. #103
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    Chainline/Crank issue

    Hi, I'm Andi from Germany, right in the middle of building a Pugs (as soon as the damn frame arrives .. 2 months waiting now. Parts are getting dusty meanwhile ..) and having some hiccups before ordering one of the last parts - the bottom bracket.

    It gets equipped with a Rohloff, White Ind. ENO crank and a Phil Wood BB – but which one? Centered? Offset? With SS cups? Normally it wouldn't be that problem but the combination of Rohloffs wider chainline and the fixed position of the White Industries chainring makes it tricky. So it looks that the BB has to correct everything ..

    My thoughts so far:
    Rohloff has a chainline of 54 mm and is laced 17.5 mm offset that gives it a chainline of 71.5 mm. The White Ind. crank has a chainline of 47.5 mm on a 113 mm spindle that would make it a 63.5 mm on Phil's 145 mm spindle. Now I would say let's take the 5 mm offset BB version to move closer to the ideal chainline. Then there would only be a difference of 3 mm left that I hope to compensate by moving the cups. But my fear is: would the non drive crank arm come too close and interfere with the chainstay as it is moved 8 mm inwards?

    Or am I totally wrong and the Phil spindle is 145 mm + 5 mm on the right (and not simply shifted as I think it is) which would make it a 150 mm effectively?

    I've written to PW - couldn't tell me anything (at least the person replying). Have written to Surly - answer pending (or mail gone lost?). Have posted on several pages - no answer until now. The only response I got from VikB, offering me to do some measurings on his equipment that could help.

    But maybe there's somebody riding this exact combination of components and can tell me what's the solution? That would be awesome.

    cheers, Andi



    p.s. Wasn't allowed to use the search function as I had no post before ... Anyway, question's still up.
    Last edited by younox; 05-16-2012 at 08:33 AM.

  4. #104
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    There have been posters on here with pug builds with your hub and PW BB so they should be along to answer your questions
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by younox View Post
    Hi, I'm Andi from Germany, right in the middle of building a Pugs (as soon as the damn frame arrives .. 2 months waiting now. Parts are getting dusty meanwhile ..) and having some hiccups before ordering one of the last parts - the bottom bracket.

    It gets equipped with a Rohloff, White Ind. ENO crank and a Phil Wood BB – but which one? Centered? Offset? With SS cups? Normally it wouldn't be that problem but the combination of Rohloffs wider chainline and the fixed position of the White Industries chainring makes it tricky. So it looks that the BB has to correct everything ..

    My thoughts so far:
    Rohloff has a chainline of 54 mm and is laced 17.5 mm offset that gives it a chainline of 71.5 mm. The White Ind. crank has a chainline of 47.5 mm on a 113 mm spindle that would make it a 63.5 mm on Phil's 145 mm spindle. Now I would say let's take the 5 mm offset BB version to move closer to the ideal chainline. Then there would only be a difference of 3 mm left that I hope to compensate by moving the cups. But my fear is: would the non drive crank arm come too close and interfere with the chainstay as it is moved 8 mm inwards?

    Or am I totally wrong and the Phil spindle is 145 mm + 5 mm on the right (and not simply shifted as I think it is) which would make it a 150 mm effectively?
    I was going to do this build and ended up with a moonlander, which was a whole different set of problems. You want the 145mm +5 Phil BB. Because my build didn't have one, I have one of these BB's I'm not using - send me a PM and i'd be happy to work out a deal.

  6. #106
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    i have a question, what do y'all do when you have flats? normally i carry at least 1 spare tube with me when i ride (2 for road bikes and 1 for mtb) but how big are these tubes?
    can you carry one easy in a camelbak?
    what size is the standard tube? will i be able to get one easily from my LBS? (in Australia)
    cheers
    Steve

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJfromtheSwitch View Post
    i have a question, what do y'all do when you have flats? normally i carry at least 1 spare tube with me when i ride (2 for road bikes and 1 for mtb) but how big are these tubes?
    can you carry one easy in a camelbak?
    what size is the standard tube? will i be able to get one easily from my LBS? (in Australia)
    cheers
    Steve
    I'm sure a fat bike tube would fit in your Camelbak.. I haven't had a flat yet on my Moonie (touch wood) but I carry a tube for a 29er and will blow it up big enough to get me out of trouble.. and then plan to fix the original tube once I'm back home.

    DJ

  8. #108
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    ah cool thanks DJ, so that's pretty much a 29" x whatever the biggest they sell? is that 2.5" maybe?

    schwalbe only do a 2.35" tube from what i can see

  9. #109
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    Great info!

  10. #110
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    Fatbikes - the major available models

    Well, I just spent an hour typing a response and it logged me out without saving text, so I'll try to be briefer this time. I'm a long-time lurker so it won't let me start a new thread this soon after registering, but I think a breakdown of the currently-available fatbike models would be a very helpful sticky. Here's what I found in my research so far. Correct me if I'm wrong - lots of this is from memory and I'm trying to remember everything I wrote.

    SURLY LINE - all steel, all with sliding rear dropouts so they can be run single speed or IGH
    Pugsley - $1650, all steel, offset wheels on 135mm hubs. 65mm rims and 3.7" tires standard.
    Necromancer, a.k.a. Black Ops, a.k.a. Neck Romancer - $1850 for a pugs with 82mm rims and 3.7" tires
    Moonlander - $2350 for a pugs that fits 4.7" tires on 100mm rims. Wheels on this one are offset as well. The rims are drilled out to reduce weight.
    Krampus - unique-sized steel fatbike with 29" wheels and 3" wide tires on 50mm rims. Larger diameter but narrower tires than other fatbikes. 1x9 drivetrain. Debuts this winter for $1950 complete. This "29+" size may eventually become its own fatbike subgenre if it catches on.

    SALSA LINE
    3 aluminum bikes and a titanium bike. For 2013 they have sliding rear dropouts, 80mm rims, 3.7" tires that are knobbier than most other stock fatbike tires so they're better in the dirt but offer more rolling resistance. Symmetrical rear wheels, unlike the Surly line. For 2013 at least they will fit 4.7" tires on fatter rims (100mm) with drivetrain modifications.
    Mukluk Ti - $4200
    Beargrease - aluminum frame and fork, superlight racing fatbike. $3000
    Mukluk 2 - $2450, aluminum frame with steel fork, midrange
    Mukluk 3 - $1750, aluminum frame with steel fork, entry level

    Speedway Cycles FATBACK - designed in Anchorage, all of these bikes have symmetrical wheels and come with drilled-out rims to reduce weight. Speedway says that they came out with the symmetrical rear wheel design that Salsa now uses. Bikes can be specced new with either 70mm or 90mm rims. 90mm rims with 4.7 tires will fit but require drivetrain mods.

    Fatback Starts at $2300 complete when specced with the aluminum frame and fork. Starting winter 11/12, these alum frames are made in the U.S. - unlike any other readily available fatbike.
    Starting at $2650, Fatbacks can be had with a steel frame and fork.
    Starting $3450, you can have a Fatback complete build with a US-made titanium frame and fork.
    Fatbacks are adding a sliding rear dropout option for 2012/2013, but it costs about $150 more.


    9Zero7 - also designed in Anchorage, but made in Asia (unlike Fatback). Can be had with either symmetrical or asymmetrical rear wheels, aluminum or titanium, and with or without sliding rear dropouts. Their current models can fit 100mm rims and 4.7" tires, but come stock with 80mm and 3.7s.
    Complete 9zero7 starts at $2000 with aluminum frame/fork.
    Complete titanium 9zero7 starts at $3800.
    Last edited by Willum; 09-02-2012 at 02:51 PM. Reason: more typos

  11. #111
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    Adding to Willum's effort:

    FAT SAND BIKE - not for racing but longer wheelbase lifestyle fat bikes, alloy frames, 130 offset, non-cut wheels, significantly expanded 2012/13 range including kids fat sand bikes, and a new ultra cheap entry to being fat with <$600 RRP steel 3 speed fat bike, plus electric fat bike frame with integrated rear rack, and their own new design 4.8" tyre that fits the original 100mm rim and frame.

    I got mine (Fat Sand Bike Terrain Destroyer 17") when son was born 7 months ago, only ridden it once on the beach, but it's a game changer for leisure riding in my area (10min fat bike ride from beach) and it's a bike I'll keep for its life. I've been thinking of riding it to work for a challenge as the days are getting longer for more time for the longer trip, while it's still cool enough morning temp to not melt into the office.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willum View Post
    Here's what I found in my research so far. Correct me if I'm wrong - lots of this is from memory and I'm trying to remember everything I wrote.
    Nice list.

    Worth noting the differences in geometry. Some fatbikes are focused towards stable flotation, and some towards fat trail fun. Thats not to say a floatation orientated fatbike will kill you in the face with fire, if you take it on the trail. Just that there is difference in geometry worth noting.

    There are also quite a few other players.

    Carver
    Tommisea
    Sandman
    Twenty2 cycles
    On-one (soon....)
    Schlik cycles
    616fab

    ...and probably a few more.
    A big boy did it, and ran away.
    62*28'

  13. #113
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    Thanks - I had a feeling that I would be missing some $4000 boutique rigs, but Tommisea/Fat Sand Bike looks to be a major option with a wide range of models (many of which are pretty affordable). They should be part of any sticky that gets created as well. Love their use of IGHs!

  14. #114
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    Hey fellas-

    Can't start a new post so I figured here may be the best spot to get me question answered...

    I bought a Necro Pugs this summer and just can't get used to the thumb shifters that come stock on it. They work fine, but I want to go to the usual trigger shifters like on my other mountain bikes.

    I'm fairly new to replacing my own parts, so do I need anything besides the shifter itself? I assume it needs to be a 10 speed shifter.

    Any advice is much appreciated- especially if you have done this to your Necro.

    Cheers!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raul34 View Post
    Hey fellas-

    Can't start a new post so I figured here may be the best spot to get me question answered...

    I bought a Necro Pugs this summer and just can't get used to the thumb shifters that come stock on it. They work fine, but I want to go to the usual trigger shifters like on my other mountain bikes.

    I'm fairly new to replacing my own parts, so do I need anything besides the shifter itself? I assume it needs to be a 10 speed shifter.

    Any advice is much appreciated- especially if you have done this to your Necro.

    Cheers!
    Actually, you have a 9-speed cassette.
    I have some new DEORE SL-M590 3 X 9 SHIFTERS for sale which came off my white Pugsley.
    They would match your Deore M591SGS derailleur perfectly.
    $45 ...... let me know if interested.
    DEORE SL-M590 3 X 9 SHIFTERS NEW BIKE TAKE OFFS Shimano | eBay

  16. #116
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    Right on. So they would work even though it's a 2x9?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raul34 View Post
    Right on. So they would work even though it's a 2x9?
    Yes. You just turn the high limit screw in (on the front derailleur).
    Last edited by client_9; 09-05-2012 at 09:27 AM.

  18. #118
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    Thanks

  19. #119
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    Hi,
    Im Buck, I ride a Necro Pugs in southern Maryland. working on pics now

  20. #120
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    Can I use XT rear hub ( FH-M785) in Enabler fork?

    Can I use a standard XT rear hub ( FH-M785) from my parts bin in a Salsa Enabler fork?

    Do I need a FRONT caliper adaptor and a standard front disc brake?

    OR
    Do I need to buy a purpose built 135mm Front Hub.

  21. #121
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    A standard rear hub will do. Brake adaptor is front type.

    This is smart thinkin on behalf of Salsa: you can use regular brake sets without additional adapters, and the hub choice is virtually unlimited.

  22. #122
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    Thanks Saul, great news.....one step closer.

  23. #123
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    9zero7 170mm. 1-1/8 or 44mm Headtube?

    Hi all, should I go with the 1-1/8 or the 44mm Headtube? Pro's / Con's !!!
    Thanks

  24. #124
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    29er tube

    Will a 29er tube work for an emergency spare tube on my fat bike?

  25. #125
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    No. I tried to put one in my BFL's on Clown Shoes, and the tube started raising the middle of the tread without seating the bead. As the tube had no room to expand further, it started buckling into a kinked mess.

  26. #126
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    Anyone used a Fargo or ogre fork in summer wheelset

    Has anyone used a Fargo or Ogre fork on a Muk or 9zero7 as part of a summer/commuter (29er) wheelset. I have a ( Marvic A719 with Son28dyno hub ) wheel that I can use. Any thoughts?

  27. #127
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    It should work fine, all this forks are the same lenght.

  28. #128
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    Any one has any feed back on 9:ZERO:7 Hubs?

    Thank you in advance.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by olegbabich View Post
    Any one has any feed back on 9:ZERO:7 Hubs?

    Thank you in advance.
    The 907 and the Salsa hubs both look exactly the same except for the logo. I suspect it is the same OEM supplier. I am running 907 on the front and Salsa on the back no problems so far and I would buy them again.

  30. #130
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    I have both the salsa and 907 hubs in the store. They look they same, but there are more pauls in the 907 they are lounder, similar type "whine" as a king hub but not as loud.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by olegbabich View Post
    Any one has any feed back on 9:ZERO:7 Hubs?

    Thank you in advance.
    I am running a 9-0-7 rear 170 hub. I have been beating it as hard as I can but it keeps working. Nice and loud too!

  32. #132
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    I'm not sure what to search for but has anyone ever put a fat fork and tire on a regular mtn bike? Say a specialized rockhopper comp disc (26er) from 2008? Any info would be great. Just kicking around the idea since the dart 3 shock needs to be serviced, thanks!

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikcomuter View Post
    I'm not sure what to search for but has anyone ever put a fat fork and tire on a regular mtn bike? Say a specialized rockhopper comp disc (26er) from 2008? Any info would be great. Just kicking around the idea since the dart 3 shock needs to be serviced, thanks!
    not sure of that particular bike but yes some have used this setup.

  34. #134
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    Cool fourm

  35. #135
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    I would not use a 29er tube in a fatbike

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikcomuter View Post
    I'm not sure what to search for but has anyone ever put a fat fork and tire on a regular mtn bike? Say a specialized rockhopper comp disc (26er) from 2008? Any info would be great. Just kicking around the idea since the dart 3 shock needs to be serviced, thanks!

    If you search for "Half Fat" on the forum you'll find lots of threads

    My concern would be that a Fat Fork + Tyre is effectively a 29er so on your Rockhopperyou'd be raising the front end a couple of inches and changing your head angle.

    You may or may not find that change beneficial
    If you need me I'll be at the bar

  37. #137
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    Ahhh! Half fat, I get it. Thanks! I would be cool with raising the front end a couple of inches since I feel it's too low as it is. I was in a really bad wreck last November and was trapped upside down for quite awhile until I was cut out. Since then my neck and left shoulder have bothered me. If I ride my rock for 45 min my left hand will go numb as well as neck pain probably because of the aggressive lean forwards. Lately I've been single tracking my commuter(old trek 820 rigid) because it is set up very upright with swept back bars. It is actually more comfortable and no neck pain or numb fingers! I've been playing a little bit with stems and bars to get the position more like my trek but no luck yet. Hence the idea of "half fat".

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikcomuter View Post
    I'm not sure what to search for but has anyone ever put a fat fork and tire on a regular mtn bike? Say a specialized rockhopper comp disc (26er) from 2008? Any info would be great. Just kicking around the idea since the dart 3 shock needs to be serviced, thanks!
    Also try searching "fat front".
    Latitude 61

  39. #139
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    Don't know if this is FAQ material, but here it goes

    Do you run your rear Larrys reverse or normal?
    What results are you getting in terms of traction and wear?
    Thanks

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Don't know if this is FAQ material, but here it goes

    Do you run your rear Larrys reverse or normal?
    What results are you getting in terms of traction and wear?
    Thanks
    A ran the larrys in all directions, but I didn't notice a big difference in traction or braking or steering. they do ok in dry conditions and spin out/ slide in the mud.

    In the end i cutted all sideknobs to turn them into a beach/ road tire, cheaper than buying new floyds

  41. #141
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    I have just purchased a Pugsley Necro frame and am working on a budget build for this winter with a mix of new and used parts. Trying to save some $ where I can and (for now), am planning to run a Large Marge rim in the rear so I don't have to throw down the extra cash for a MWOD crank and will run a standard mtn double or compact triple. My question:

    Will there be any issues running a Large Marge 65mm rim in the rear (with an Endomorph) and a Rolling Darryl 82mm rim up front (with a Larry)? Any idea on whether it will affect the handling, etc?
    Surly Pugsley, Salsa El Mariachi, Salsa Vaya

    Part time bag/pogie maker:
    http://wanderlust-gear.com

  42. #142
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    The Pugs/Necro frame can run Larry/Endos with a RD on the rear with no issues

  43. #143
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    Hmm, I was under the impression an offset crankset like the Mr Whirly offset double is required for rear rims larger than 65mm. I'm hoping to save some money and run a cheaper mtn crankset, which is why I was looking to run a Large Marge/Endo combo on the rear.
    Surly Pugsley, Salsa El Mariachi, Salsa Vaya

    Part time bag/pogie maker:
    http://wanderlust-gear.com

  44. #144
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    FWIW my 907 runs RD rims with Raceface crank.

    Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulmt View Post
    Hmm, I was under the impression an offset crankset like the Mr Whirly offset double is required for rear rims larger than 65mm. I'm hoping to save some money and run a cheaper mtn crankset, which is why I was looking to run a Large Marge/Endo combo on the rear.
    There are a couple of exceptions, that I don't know the specifics of, but most fatbikes running 80mm rims do not have problems and don't run extra wide cranks.

    For example the FSA Alphadrive is very cheap and will work fine when combined with the appropriate, also cheap, bottom bracket. Isis bb's are not the greatest in my opinion but they will get you by for many miles.
    Latitude 61

  46. #146
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    Cool, that's good to hear. The FSA Alphadrive is one of the cranksets I was looking at. Thanks!
    Surly Pugsley, Salsa El Mariachi, Salsa Vaya

    Part time bag/pogie maker:
    http://wanderlust-gear.com

  47. #147
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    Marge Lite wheel build

    Is there any good information out there to help me with a Marge lite wheel build. More specifically the spoke calcs. I am building these wheels for a Necromancer and I haven't been able to find any reliable information on the subject. I have built wheels before but this is a new one and has me puzzled.

  48. #148
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    Bud and Lou fit in my 2012 Mukluk Ti. There is even (barely) enough clearance for fenders.
    I have a 1x7 (spaced 9 speed cassette) with profile cranks and at single digit pressures, there is clearance for all 7 gears.
    I had to move the alternators all the way back.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by rock&road View Post
    Is there any good information out there to help me with a Marge lite wheel build. More specifically the spoke calcs. I am building these wheels for a Necromancer and I haven't been able to find any reliable information on the subject. I have built wheels before but this is a new one and has me puzzled.
    Marge Lite Wheelbuild Question
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevob View Post
    i went on a search for this thread but didn't fare well.

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