Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 90
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,729

    FAT 26" tires on a 29er for snow?

    Not sure this is the best forum for this, but hopefully someone has tried this. Has anyone tried really fat 26" tires on their 29er for winter riding? This will of course depend a lot on your frame and fork, but what are the fattest tires that would fit? I did some measuring, and don't think an Endomorph will fit in the rear, but maybe a Gazza 3.0? I have a Pace fork on the front, and the width measures about 95mm. I understand the endomorph measured 94mm mounted to a large marge rim, but what if it were mounted on a narrower rim, would if fit? Since the Endo is very expensive, I thought I would check here first to see if anyone has tried it. I have seen pictures of an Endo in a Bontrager switchblade fork, but not sure what rim it was mounted on. Any insight would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mark

  2. #2
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
    Reputation: Drevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,807
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    Not sure this is the best forum for this, but hopefully someone has tried this. Has anyone tried really fat 26" tires on their 29er for winter riding? This will of course depend a lot on your frame and fork, but what are the fattest tires that would fit? I did some measuring, and don't think an Endomorph will fit in the rear, but maybe a Gazza 3.0? I have a Pace fork on the front, and the width measures about 95mm. I understand the endomorph measured 94mm mounted to a large marge rim, but what if it were mounted on a narrower rim, would if fit? Since the Endo is very expensive, I thought I would check here first to see if anyone has tried it. I have seen pictures of an Endo in a Bontrager switchblade fork, but not sure what rim it was mounted on. Any insight would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mark
    I'll try to dig it up, but someone put fat 26" tires on their 29er Black Sheep. Looked friggin' cool. The guy's name was "bee" something or other, and I think he's in Wyoming if that's any help

    Not quite, but semi-related:
    *Almost* a 29er...
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  3. #3
    In FTF We Trust
    Reputation: el-cid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,819
    Two problems with a 3.0" Gazzalodi on the rear of a 29er: 1) they're not available any more; 2) you may have the height but not the width. A 3" wide 26" tire is still 3" wide, and not in the right place - most frames have some clearance worked into the chainstays, but if you put 26" wheel in the frame the tire would likely be it's fattest where the chainstays start to "swoop back in" for lack of better terms.
    "I'll disintegrate over time if I expect my body to try to keep up with my mind" -BM

    Race, Rocks or Road...Just Ride

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,729
    Thanks for the replies guys. Drevil, I think I remember that post as well, but can't remember if that frame was designed with those tires in mind or not. Also some interesting discussions on the thread you linked to, although pretty old already.

    el-cid: I've got the first problem solved! A used 3.0 Gazza is on it's way to me right now. I did a little measuring on my frame, and it may work. I would also not have a problem trimming some knobs if it was close. If it does not fit on the back, I will put it up front, where it should fit no problem. If the Gazza does not fit in the back I am thinking about a WTB Timberwolf race 2.7, also not in production anymore, but they can still be found relatively easily, also MUCH lighter than a Gazza. Also, how would these tires (and the Endomorph) deal with a Sun Rhyno lite rim (which I have sitting in the basement)?

    I guess the question them becomes, would this setup be better than a set of 29er wheels with WW 2.55s?

    So many question!

    Mark

  5. #5
    conjoinicorned
    Reputation: ferday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,527
    I guess the question them becomes, would this setup be better than a set of 29er wheels with WW 2.55s?
    i run some 3" tires on my 26er in the snow. it works pretty good...FWIW i'm running sunn singletracks (pretty similar to rhynolites) and the tires fit fine...if hard to get on and off. this bike is great in nice deep fluffy powder.

    but for most other snow conditions (slush, icy, hardpack etc.) i prefer my 29er with rampages or exiwolfs (i like exi's in the snow).
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    287
    A local shop owner used 2.7 Big Earls on his Rig.
    I think it looks pretty cool!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rotmilky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    711
    I've been toying with some ideas that's along the same lines as yours...I planned on getting some Large Marge rims, slapping a 3" tire on it and seeing if it would fit on my 575. Might try my RIP9 as well...didn't really think of that.

    I've also got some 38mm wide Kris Holm 29" unicycle rims and WTB Exi's on the way to see how that works on the RIP9.

    Edit: The tires are WW's, not Exi's. Stupid fingers...
    Last edited by Rotmilky; 11-27-2007 at 03:43 PM.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qtip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    515
    My friend Joe (dosboy) had a 1x1 frame and fork w/ Large Marge rims and Gazzi 3.0's. They fit fine. He decided to get rid of that make his BlackSheep 29er a snowbike in winter. He ran a Puggs fork and the LM rim and an Endo tire in front w/ a LM rim and WTB Timberwolf Race (2.7?) tire in the back. I think the Gazzi would have fit with some trimming, but it would have been tight. PM him and I'm sure he'll answer any questions you have.

    I just built up a fairly a cheap snowbike w/ a 1x1 frame w/ a Puggs fork and LM rims and Endo front tire and a Serfas 3.0 rear tire. I'm in Utah and we still don't have any snow....figures.

  9. #9
    highly visible
    Reputation: GlowBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,185
    I ran a 3.0 (Arrow Prime Wide) in my KM's fork for a while, and have also run the Gazzaloddi 3.0 in it. Both fit with plenty of clearance. Anything but an Endomorph will fit just fine.

    I'm not sure a 26x3.0 would be a better choice than a 29x2.4 though. It's not an Endomorph by any stretch. And even if the overall diameter is the same, the tire compresses as it rolls, reducing the 26x3.0's effective diameter more than the 29x2.4's -- it seems to help a lot to have a bigger hoop inside. I've been amazed at being able to ride packed snowmobile trails (even when wet and slushy) on my skinny 700x45 Hakkapeliitta. Not as good as a super-fat 26"er, but close enough that I'd put my money on the semi-fat 29"er.

    Assuming enough volume is available to run low pressure, both tires will have the same contact patch and the same flotation while standing still. But the 29"er will have a longer contact patch, which translates to better tracking, less effort to push through the snow, and ultimately better flotation while moving.

    All that said, you've got the tire on the way already. Give it a try and let us know how it works out.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  10. #10
    tiny rider
    Reputation: cartographer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    621
    SlowerThanSnot has set up his Blacksheep with a Surly fork up front, and put on a fat rim with a shaved 26" DH tire in the rear:


    Maybe one of you could make out the actual tire choice from the full res image (http://gearspeak.com/~cartographer/m...7/PA190305.jpg)

    We weren't in more than a spot of snow, though, so I don't know how well it floats in the deep stuff.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,729
    Thanks for all of the ideas and comments, there are much appreciated. It seems to me that the right tire combo is going to depend alot on the actual snow conditions. As I said, I already have the Gazza on the way, and I have a set of 26" SS wheels sitting in the basement, so I am going to see what will work. Of course we don't have any snow yet anyway, so no big rush!

    Mark

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,729
    My Gazzaliddi 3.0 finally arrived, and it is a beast! Weight: 1580g. I mounted it to my Rhyno Lite front wheel (after a broken tire lever) and pumped it up to 20psi, and it fits perfectly in my Pace fork. There is at least 10mm of clearance on each side, so even with a wider rim it should fit no problem. There was no way I was going to take the tire off the front wheel to mount it on the back, so I just put a long skewer in the front hub and dropped it on the back of the bike. The tire buzzes the chainstays a bit, but can still be rotated. With some knob shaving, I think it would work OK. I also have a Timberwolf 2.7 I could use on the back, but I would really like to get a bigger tire on the back as well. Sorry, no pictures yet.

    So now I need to find another Gazza 3.0 tire! Or maybe something else? I have seen an Arrow Savage 26x3.0 on the internet and a Duro Racing Leopard 26x3.0 tire at a unicycle website. Both are around $50.00.

    Mark

  13. #13
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
    Reputation: Drevil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,807
    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I'll try to dig it up, but someone put fat 26" tires on their 29er Black Sheep. Looked friggin' cool. The guy's name was "bee" something or other, and I think he's in Wyoming if that's any help

    Not quite, but semi-related:
    *Almost* a 29er...
    A little late, but I knew he had "bee" in his name: Helibee! This post is from almost two years ago.

    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    184
    I asked James to build the Sheep with clearance for 29x2.5, and the Gazz 3.0 fit as a bonus. The bike has changed form somewhat, and I now have a dedicated winter bike as pic'd. Definitely very fun and I encourage the effort! Merry Christmas!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    i just ordered up a pair of the duro tires. you all have inspired me. now which rims do i use? alex dx32? large marge? anyone know where i can find some snowcats in 32 hole?

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    184

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MMcG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    9,587
    Is that an IRO Jamie Roy?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    184
    No, an IRO Mia, which is no longer available. I contacted Tony in May or June to see if he had anymore, which he did at the time. Frame and fork for $150 shipped. He may have more.... A great backup/loaner bike which will handle 29" wheels, as well as the meats pictured. I think it would take Endomorphs too!

  19. #19
    Stayin' Puft
    Reputation: canyonrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,241

    try some trials rims

    Sean, check out Echo, Viz, or Try-All brands of trials rims in 26" diameter. They look just like a Snow Cat extra-light version with all the drillings.

    I just ordered a built-up set from webcyclery.com with the Echo's...looking forward to their arrival. I spec'd the 46mm wide "rear" rim version for both front and rear wheels.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    419
    being able to ride in the snow has much more to do with the diameter of the wheel, not so much the width of the tire. I have ridden Exi's in snow when my riding partners were riding 2.6" 26" tires and I rode away from them. they couldn't even go 5 feet, I could ride no problem.

  21. #21
    Stayin' Puft
    Reputation: canyonrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,241
    Hmm... alot of variables there. Snow type, depth, pack, temperature. 26" friend's tire tread, pressure, rim width. Ability. ;-) Maybe you are just a snow-riding stud... Or maybe you should get over on the Alaska forum and tell all the Fat-Bike folks that they have been misled...:-)

    Here is some good info explaining why wide rims work well in snow, it is not all about fitting a wider tire:
    http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/rims.htm

    I would agree that 29ers are pretty darn good in snow on their own as long as the snow is not too deep. I have 2.2 Nevegal's on 29mm wide Salsa rims and in some ways they perform as well as my 26x2.7" tires. But when the snow gets really deep and you need to float on a crust or churned-up powder, wide really helps. I am looking forward to the 29x35mm Salsa Gordo rim for next season, and the next generation of 29" wider tires like the Schwalbe 29x2.4's that just came out. Ultimately I think the longer contact patch of the 29" wheel will be superior in all conditions once the rim/tire width choices improve.

  22. #22
    willtsmith_nwi
    Reputation: willtsmith_nwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,997
    Quote Originally Posted by funkenstein
    being able to ride in the snow has much more to do with the diameter of the wheel, not so much the width of the tire. I have ridden Exi's in snow when my riding partners were riding 2.6" 26" tires and I rode away from them. they couldn't even go 5 feet, I could ride no problem.
    Just remember that the wider the tire, the more diameter you will get from bulging. I've seem remarks that a full pugsley with large marge rims and 3.7" tires will put a 29er with Weirwolfs to shame in deep snow.

  23. #23
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    for those interested in visual aides.

    my duro 26 x 3 tires came today, and i mounted them up to an old set of wheels i have laying around with 32mm azonic hoops on them. i will have to rebuild the wheels for them to be functional, as they're non-disc, but i mounted the front on my karate monkey and took some photos to see what the differences actually are.

    km with ww 29 x 2.55 front and rear:


    km with ww2.55 rear and 26 x 3 front. the 26 x 3 is somewhere in between a 26 x 2.3 and the 29 x 2.55 in diameter. probably about a 650b size in actuality.


    2.55(measures 2.4ish) ww on 28mm rim left, 3" duro on 32mm rim right:

  24. #24
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,805
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    my duro 26 x 3 tires came today, and i mounted them up to an old set of wheels i have laying around with 32mm azonic hoops on them.
    Zowie! And then mount them on Echo rims as suggested by canyonrat!

    Hmmmm. How much clearance does my Inbred have..........

    I have no snow in central coastal CA, but we have sand,,,,,,,,
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rotmilky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    2.55(measures 2.4ish) ww on 28mm rim left, 3" duro on 32mm rim right:
    Wow, that's an eyeopener. It's also interesting to see the WWs on a 28mm rim. Here's a comparison of a WTB Motoraptor on 18mm rims (Mavic 719) with the WW on 38mm rims (KHolm). Tread looks much less aggressive on the KH rim than on your 28mm rim.
    Wide tires.jpg

    FWIW, the WW sidewall width measures 2.5" on the KH rims with the knob spacing coming in at 2.4"
    "My life's ambition is to see a musical version of MacBeth performed by chickens."

  26. #26
    Stayin' Puft
    Reputation: canyonrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,241
    Sean, thanks for posting the pic of the Duro. What do you think of the tire, I have been considering ordering one since I can't seem to get my hands on a Gazzaloddi 3.0 anywhere.

    What does the width measurement look like at a reasonable snow riding pressure, say 15psi on that 32 mm rim?

  27. #27
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    i won't have it out for a ride till i rebuild the wheels, so no ride impression for at least a week. i'll get the width later today, when i dig up my calipers from whichever pile of crap they're burried under.

    i previously has a set of 24" x 3" gazzaloddi's, for a monster trials bike, and i remember the sidewalls being noticeably stiffer in hand(off the bike) than on there. they are heavy, of course, but i don't have a gram scale. pain in the a$$ to mount, of course. they have a lip that sits right over the edge of the rim. i would say it's worth it. unicycle.com had em on sale when i ordered mine. they still might be.

  28. #28
    Stayin' Puft
    Reputation: canyonrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,241

    29er rims?

    Helibee, are those the Kris Holm 700c x 38mm muni rims on your current bike pic? How do you like them?

    Since you have tried the 26x3.0 Gazzaloddi's and 29" Rampages on what looks like the KH rim, and apparently have chosen the 29" as your preference instead of the 26" fatties, can you tell us why you chose the 29"?

    Frankly I am a little conflicted that I am actually ordering a new 26" wheelset... I own an El Mariachi and a Niner One9 and never expected to be spending any money on more 26" stuff unless it was for my kids...

    If I could only find a nice 46mm wide 29er rim...

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    184
    "Helibee, are those the Kris Holm 700c x 38mm muni rims on your current bike pic? How do you like them?" Yep, KH rims on the Sheep. I love them and won't be swapping them out anytime soon. I ran DT 7.1s prior to the KHs. I didn't like the squirm associated with the narrow rims and low pressures. I also had to do a bit of trueing to the DTs. Nothing major, but I hate trueing my rims. I'm not a heavy weight and wanted more durabilty. (DT=Quality built by Mike Garcia) The KHs were built by MS.

    Since you have tried the 26x3.0 Gazzaloddi's and 29" Rampages on what looks like the KH rim, and apparently have chosen the 29" as your preference instead of the 26" fatties, can you tell us why you chose the 29"?
    I run the Gazzi's on the IRO Mia pictured above. I chose the Rampages for the Sheep for a couple of reasons. Less tire/wheel swapping for one and they work well all around (for me). I have noticed a couple of 'traits' between the two in the snow. The Gazzi's tend to float in fresh, unmarred powder better and it is quite noticable. We recently have received several feezing rains here in the Midwest, which has left a crust. I've found I really work hard and have to keep the momentum up with the Gazzi's when conditions allow for breakthroughs or when crossing sharp depressions similar to footsteps/ruts with this crust. The Rampages have the advantage in the crust conditions described above, or on packed trails for no other reason than rolling resistance. They emulate the 29er strengths by rolling over and maintaining momentum better. The Gazzi's are 'BIG' and have alot of knobs and really look cool! They're both fun.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtnbikerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,231

    Beavis and Butthead snicker

    My ride today on fat 26" tires. Flotation is incredible on snowmobile trails and I can ride singletrack if the snow conditions are right (up to 4" of crusty stuff)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by mtnbikerx; 12-31-2007 at 04:44 AM.
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,674
    Are those Remolines? Is that a Fatcity frame?

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtnbikerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,231
    Remolinos and the Frame is a Wildfire Fatbike.
    Everybody dies, but not everyone lives

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    58
    Is it really such a good idea to replace a larger wheel for a smaller one for snow? Smaller wheels tend to get stuck much easier. From my experience so far, my schwalbe racing ralphs 29x2.4 rolls better in snow conditions than my old Gazza Jr 26x2.6, with just as good traction.

    I guess a 36" wheel bike with proper tires should be superior for winter riding..

  34. #34
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    the endomorphs measure out at about 29" in diameter(i think), so it's really not a smaller wheel. it's just as large in diameter but a hell of alot wider.

    the 26" x 3" tires have worked well for alot of others, i'm seeing how well they'll work for me. a 29" wheel with 3"+ tires would be friggen great, but one would have to make the tires themselves out of a couple pairs of other tires.

  35. #35
    dtheo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    183

    Duro 3.0 and KM

    Does that 3.0 fit on the rear of the KM? How much clearance is (or isn't) there??

    Thanks,
    DT

    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    my duro 26 x 3 tires came today, and i mounted them up to an old set of wheels i have laying around with 32mm azonic hoops on them. i will have to rebuild the wheels for them to be functional, as they're non-disc, but i mounted the front on my karate monkey and took some photos to see what the differences actually are.

  36. #36
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    with the wheel slammed, it has about 1/4" on either side on the chainstays, and more on the seatstays. clearance is not an issue.

  37. #37
    willtsmith_nwi
    Reputation: willtsmith_nwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,997

    Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    with the wheel slammed, it has about 1/4" on either side on the chainstays, and more on the seatstays. clearance is not an issue.
    That's intriguing. Pics please.

  38. #38
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    chainstays - i drew two little green lines on the photo where the tire is at it's closest(tread) to the frame:


    seatstays - these actually make the tire look small...:

  39. #39
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,805
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    chainstays - i drew two little green lines on the photo where the tire is at it's closest(tread) to the frame:


    seatstays - these actually make the tire look small...:
    Could you measure that widest point, and what is the distance from the axle to that widest point? I'm checking to see if I can get those to fit in my Inbred 29er. Thanks!
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  40. #40
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    center of axle to widest point (of tire): a couple of hairs over 13"
    widest point (of tire), approximately: a hair over 2 7/8"
    Last edited by sean salach; 12-31-2007 at 02:20 PM.

  41. #41
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,805
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    center of axle to widest point (of tire): a couple of hairs over 13"
    widest point (of tire), approximately: a hair over 2 7/8"
    Precise approximations! Love it. Thank you.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  42. #42
    willtsmith_nwi
    Reputation: willtsmith_nwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,997
    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Precise approximations! Love it. Thank you.
    All measurements are approximations.

  43. #43
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    what if i said: it's exactly as big as it is.

  44. #44
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,805
    He's just itching for a fight; he has a chip on his shoulder about something and is spreading the angst around in different forums here in the last few days.

    Precise approximations works exactly for me!
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  45. #45
    Stayin' Puft
    Reputation: canyonrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,241
    Great info on this thread and sounds like several of us are considering many of the same options here.

    I ended up cancelling my Echo 26'er wheel build today...I just could not bear to spend money on a new 26" wheel set. I must say my confidence is building riding the 29er in the snow. I ran the tires (Nevegal 2.2's on Delgado Disc 29mm rims) down to 15psi on todays ride, and was riding on top of crusted snow...it was a little freaky (in a good way). All basically standard 29'er stuff, no DH monster tires or anything. I think Funkenstein's earlier point on diameter vs. width was right on...both are good but diameter might be even more important within reasonable bounds.

    Now I am more focused on putting my winter cycling dollar towards 29er stuff, so looking at the Kris Holm 38mm wide 29er rim. It is a heavy mutha...but the closest alternative being the upcoming Salso Gordo 29er Disc at what looks like $120 a pop...I can just push the weight or pull out my drill. ;-)

  46. #46
    willtsmith_nwi
    Reputation: willtsmith_nwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,997
    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    He's just itching for a fight; he has a chip on his shoulder about something and is spreading the angst around in different forums here in the last few days.

    Precise approximations works exactly for me!
    I communicated a fundamental truth. You're the one that seems to have a chip on your shoulder.

    I didn't argue with the statement. But it's redundant. All measurements can be expressed to a given precision. This is the limit of what your measuring device is capable of. It is impossible to measure anything EXACTLY. Nuclear decay and the heisenberg principle would thwart you at that point.

    Counting however is another matter.

  47. #47
    trail rat
    Reputation: slocaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,805
    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    But it's redundant.
    I happen to like repetitive redundancies.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  48. #48
    is buachail foighneach me
    Reputation: sean salach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,508
    can't counting be a measurement though? what if i were to be a nano-scientist(i'm getting in over my head here), and i measured something out to be exactly 6 electrons in a given dimension? that would be pretty precise.

  49. #49
    (was) Big in Japan
    Reputation: TheSingleGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,004
    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    can't counting be a measurement though? what if i were to be a nano-scientist(i'm getting in over my head here), and i measured something out to be exactly 6 electrons in a given dimension? that would be pretty precise.
    But how are you going to measure it? If you use a tool to measure something, how sure can you be of the accuracy of the tool used? What was used to make it? How was it calibrated? yada yada yada...the level of confidence of your measurement can only be as good as the level of confidence in your measuring stick, and even then you have human error too (eyesight, parallax error - and no, that's not a mistake Shimano made when they released their Parallax hubs...)

    WillSmith mentioned the Heisenberrg Uncertainty Principle - which doesn't really apply here, but it is kinda interesting, and it means that you can't measure something without changing what you are trying to measure. Imagine you want to know how hot your coffee is. Stick in a thermometer, and Bob's your uncle, right? Well, coffee is hot, and the thermometer was probably at room temp or 37 degrees celsius (depending on what it was used for previously...better check the smell). Given that the thermometer is cooler than the coffee, when you stick it in the coffee, it is going to cause the temp of the coffee to drop a bit (yes, only a little bit, which doesn't really matter for your coffee, but there are situations where it does), and thus you can't measure the temperature of your coffee without changing it. Man, him and his thermometers in the punch all the time, that Heisenberg musta been fun at parties, just like WillSmithNWI.

    The diference with counting is that it's absolute. Not too much doubt about whether there are six apples on the table.

    Oh Goodness, I'm a nerd....
    Ride.

  50. #50
    willtsmith_nwi
    Reputation: willtsmith_nwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,997
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSingleGuy

    WillSmith mentioned the Heisenberrg Uncertainty Principle - which doesn't really apply here, but it is kinda interesting, and it means that you can't measure something without changing what you are trying to measure. Imagine you want to know how hot your coffee is. .
    Which is why I didn't refer to it exactly by name. We aren't dealing with atoms. But you explained my point well. To measure EXACTLY would likely change it and render your measurement useless. Going back to your punch example, there is water in it that is likely evaporating at some rate. So this is another source of invalidating your measurements.

    Hence, all measurement are approximations. And ... you all should have learned this in Chemistry class!!!! Just because your calculator is capable of producing 8 digits past the decimal, it doesn't mean you should actually USE them.

    Now, when you get into the field of "guesstimation" you're saying something else. You're saying you didn't measure you just guessed leaving you we a whopping ZERO significant digits ;-)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •