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  1. #1
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    FAT 26" tires on a 29er for snow?

    Not sure this is the best forum for this, but hopefully someone has tried this. Has anyone tried really fat 26" tires on their 29er for winter riding? This will of course depend a lot on your frame and fork, but what are the fattest tires that would fit? I did some measuring, and don't think an Endomorph will fit in the rear, but maybe a Gazza 3.0? I have a Pace fork on the front, and the width measures about 95mm. I understand the endomorph measured 94mm mounted to a large marge rim, but what if it were mounted on a narrower rim, would if fit? Since the Endo is very expensive, I thought I would check here first to see if anyone has tried it. I have seen pictures of an Endo in a Bontrager switchblade fork, but not sure what rim it was mounted on. Any insight would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mark

  2. #2
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    Not sure this is the best forum for this, but hopefully someone has tried this. Has anyone tried really fat 26" tires on their 29er for winter riding? This will of course depend a lot on your frame and fork, but what are the fattest tires that would fit? I did some measuring, and don't think an Endomorph will fit in the rear, but maybe a Gazza 3.0? I have a Pace fork on the front, and the width measures about 95mm. I understand the endomorph measured 94mm mounted to a large marge rim, but what if it were mounted on a narrower rim, would if fit? Since the Endo is very expensive, I thought I would check here first to see if anyone has tried it. I have seen pictures of an Endo in a Bontrager switchblade fork, but not sure what rim it was mounted on. Any insight would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Mark
    I'll try to dig it up, but someone put fat 26" tires on their 29er Black Sheep. Looked friggin' cool. The guy's name was "bee" something or other, and I think he's in Wyoming if that's any help

    Not quite, but semi-related:
    *Almost* a 29er...
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  3. #3
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    Two problems with a 3.0" Gazzalodi on the rear of a 29er: 1) they're not available any more; 2) you may have the height but not the width. A 3" wide 26" tire is still 3" wide, and not in the right place - most frames have some clearance worked into the chainstays, but if you put 26" wheel in the frame the tire would likely be it's fattest where the chainstays start to "swoop back in" for lack of better terms.
    "I'll disintegrate over time if I expect my body to try to keep up with my mind" -BM

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  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies guys. Drevil, I think I remember that post as well, but can't remember if that frame was designed with those tires in mind or not. Also some interesting discussions on the thread you linked to, although pretty old already.

    el-cid: I've got the first problem solved! A used 3.0 Gazza is on it's way to me right now. I did a little measuring on my frame, and it may work. I would also not have a problem trimming some knobs if it was close. If it does not fit on the back, I will put it up front, where it should fit no problem. If the Gazza does not fit in the back I am thinking about a WTB Timberwolf race 2.7, also not in production anymore, but they can still be found relatively easily, also MUCH lighter than a Gazza. Also, how would these tires (and the Endomorph) deal with a Sun Rhyno lite rim (which I have sitting in the basement)?

    I guess the question them becomes, would this setup be better than a set of 29er wheels with WW 2.55s?

    So many question!

    Mark

  5. #5
    conjoinicorned
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    I guess the question them becomes, would this setup be better than a set of 29er wheels with WW 2.55s?
    i run some 3" tires on my 26er in the snow. it works pretty good...FWIW i'm running sunn singletracks (pretty similar to rhynolites) and the tires fit fine...if hard to get on and off. this bike is great in nice deep fluffy powder.

    but for most other snow conditions (slush, icy, hardpack etc.) i prefer my 29er with rampages or exiwolfs (i like exi's in the snow).
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  6. #6
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    A local shop owner used 2.7 Big Earls on his Rig.
    I think it looks pretty cool!
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  7. #7
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    I've been toying with some ideas that's along the same lines as yours...I planned on getting some Large Marge rims, slapping a 3" tire on it and seeing if it would fit on my 575. Might try my RIP9 as well...didn't really think of that.

    I've also got some 38mm wide Kris Holm 29" unicycle rims and WTB Exi's on the way to see how that works on the RIP9.

    Edit: The tires are WW's, not Exi's. Stupid fingers...
    Last edited by Rotmilky; 11-27-2007 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #8
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    My friend Joe (dosboy) had a 1x1 frame and fork w/ Large Marge rims and Gazzi 3.0's. They fit fine. He decided to get rid of that make his BlackSheep 29er a snowbike in winter. He ran a Puggs fork and the LM rim and an Endo tire in front w/ a LM rim and WTB Timberwolf Race (2.7?) tire in the back. I think the Gazzi would have fit with some trimming, but it would have been tight. PM him and I'm sure he'll answer any questions you have.

    I just built up a fairly a cheap snowbike w/ a 1x1 frame w/ a Puggs fork and LM rims and Endo front tire and a Serfas 3.0 rear tire. I'm in Utah and we still don't have any snow....figures.

  9. #9
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    I ran a 3.0 (Arrow Prime Wide) in my KM's fork for a while, and have also run the Gazzaloddi 3.0 in it. Both fit with plenty of clearance. Anything but an Endomorph will fit just fine.

    I'm not sure a 26x3.0 would be a better choice than a 29x2.4 though. It's not an Endomorph by any stretch. And even if the overall diameter is the same, the tire compresses as it rolls, reducing the 26x3.0's effective diameter more than the 29x2.4's -- it seems to help a lot to have a bigger hoop inside. I've been amazed at being able to ride packed snowmobile trails (even when wet and slushy) on my skinny 700x45 Hakkapeliitta. Not as good as a super-fat 26"er, but close enough that I'd put my money on the semi-fat 29"er.

    Assuming enough volume is available to run low pressure, both tires will have the same contact patch and the same flotation while standing still. But the 29"er will have a longer contact patch, which translates to better tracking, less effort to push through the snow, and ultimately better flotation while moving.

    All that said, you've got the tire on the way already. Give it a try and let us know how it works out.
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  10. #10
    tiny rider
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    SlowerThanSnot has set up his Blacksheep with a Surly fork up front, and put on a fat rim with a shaved 26" DH tire in the rear:


    Maybe one of you could make out the actual tire choice from the full res image (http://gearspeak.com/~cartographer/m...7/PA190305.jpg)

    We weren't in more than a spot of snow, though, so I don't know how well it floats in the deep stuff.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for all of the ideas and comments, there are much appreciated. It seems to me that the right tire combo is going to depend alot on the actual snow conditions. As I said, I already have the Gazza on the way, and I have a set of 26" SS wheels sitting in the basement, so I am going to see what will work. Of course we don't have any snow yet anyway, so no big rush!

    Mark

  12. #12
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    My Gazzaliddi 3.0 finally arrived, and it is a beast! Weight: 1580g. I mounted it to my Rhyno Lite front wheel (after a broken tire lever) and pumped it up to 20psi, and it fits perfectly in my Pace fork. There is at least 10mm of clearance on each side, so even with a wider rim it should fit no problem. There was no way I was going to take the tire off the front wheel to mount it on the back, so I just put a long skewer in the front hub and dropped it on the back of the bike. The tire buzzes the chainstays a bit, but can still be rotated. With some knob shaving, I think it would work OK. I also have a Timberwolf 2.7 I could use on the back, but I would really like to get a bigger tire on the back as well. Sorry, no pictures yet.

    So now I need to find another Gazza 3.0 tire! Or maybe something else? I have seen an Arrow Savage 26x3.0 on the internet and a Duro Racing Leopard 26x3.0 tire at a unicycle website. Both are around $50.00.

    Mark

  13. #13
    drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil
    I'll try to dig it up, but someone put fat 26" tires on their 29er Black Sheep. Looked friggin' cool. The guy's name was "bee" something or other, and I think he's in Wyoming if that's any help

    Not quite, but semi-related:
    *Almost* a 29er...
    A little late, but I knew he had "bee" in his name: Helibee! This post is from almost two years ago.

    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  14. #14
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    I asked James to build the Sheep with clearance for 29x2.5, and the Gazz 3.0 fit as a bonus. The bike has changed form somewhat, and I now have a dedicated winter bike as pic'd. Definitely very fun and I encourage the effort! Merry Christmas!
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  15. #15
    is buachail foighneach me
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    i just ordered up a pair of the duro tires. you all have inspired me. now which rims do i use? alex dx32? large marge? anyone know where i can find some snowcats in 32 hole?

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  17. #17
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    Is that an IRO Jamie Roy?

  18. #18
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    No, an IRO Mia, which is no longer available. I contacted Tony in May or June to see if he had anymore, which he did at the time. Frame and fork for $150 shipped. He may have more.... A great backup/loaner bike which will handle 29" wheels, as well as the meats pictured. I think it would take Endomorphs too!

  19. #19
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    try some trials rims

    Sean, check out Echo, Viz, or Try-All brands of trials rims in 26" diameter. They look just like a Snow Cat extra-light version with all the drillings.

    I just ordered a built-up set from webcyclery.com with the Echo's...looking forward to their arrival. I spec'd the 46mm wide "rear" rim version for both front and rear wheels.

  20. #20
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    being able to ride in the snow has much more to do with the diameter of the wheel, not so much the width of the tire. I have ridden Exi's in snow when my riding partners were riding 2.6" 26" tires and I rode away from them. they couldn't even go 5 feet, I could ride no problem.

  21. #21
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    Hmm... alot of variables there. Snow type, depth, pack, temperature. 26" friend's tire tread, pressure, rim width. Ability. ;-) Maybe you are just a snow-riding stud... Or maybe you should get over on the Alaska forum and tell all the Fat-Bike folks that they have been misled...:-)

    Here is some good info explaining why wide rims work well in snow, it is not all about fitting a wider tire:
    http://www.icebike.org/Equipment/rims.htm

    I would agree that 29ers are pretty darn good in snow on their own as long as the snow is not too deep. I have 2.2 Nevegal's on 29mm wide Salsa rims and in some ways they perform as well as my 26x2.7" tires. But when the snow gets really deep and you need to float on a crust or churned-up powder, wide really helps. I am looking forward to the 29x35mm Salsa Gordo rim for next season, and the next generation of 29" wider tires like the Schwalbe 29x2.4's that just came out. Ultimately I think the longer contact patch of the 29" wheel will be superior in all conditions once the rim/tire width choices improve.

  22. #22
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkenstein
    being able to ride in the snow has much more to do with the diameter of the wheel, not so much the width of the tire. I have ridden Exi's in snow when my riding partners were riding 2.6" 26" tires and I rode away from them. they couldn't even go 5 feet, I could ride no problem.
    Just remember that the wider the tire, the more diameter you will get from bulging. I've seem remarks that a full pugsley with large marge rims and 3.7" tires will put a 29er with Weirwolfs to shame in deep snow.

  23. #23
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    for those interested in visual aides.

    my duro 26 x 3 tires came today, and i mounted them up to an old set of wheels i have laying around with 32mm azonic hoops on them. i will have to rebuild the wheels for them to be functional, as they're non-disc, but i mounted the front on my karate monkey and took some photos to see what the differences actually are.

    km with ww 29 x 2.55 front and rear:


    km with ww2.55 rear and 26 x 3 front. the 26 x 3 is somewhere in between a 26 x 2.3 and the 29 x 2.55 in diameter. probably about a 650b size in actuality.


    2.55(measures 2.4ish) ww on 28mm rim left, 3" duro on 32mm rim right:

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    my duro 26 x 3 tires came today, and i mounted them up to an old set of wheels i have laying around with 32mm azonic hoops on them.
    Zowie! And then mount them on Echo rims as suggested by canyonrat!

    Hmmmm. How much clearance does my Inbred have..........

    I have no snow in central coastal CA, but we have sand,,,,,,,,
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    2.55(measures 2.4ish) ww on 28mm rim left, 3" duro on 32mm rim right:
    Wow, that's an eyeopener. It's also interesting to see the WWs on a 28mm rim. Here's a comparison of a WTB Motoraptor on 18mm rims (Mavic 719) with the WW on 38mm rims (KHolm). Tread looks much less aggressive on the KH rim than on your 28mm rim.
    Wide tires.jpg

    FWIW, the WW sidewall width measures 2.5" on the KH rims with the knob spacing coming in at 2.4"
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  26. #26
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    Sean, thanks for posting the pic of the Duro. What do you think of the tire, I have been considering ordering one since I can't seem to get my hands on a Gazzaloddi 3.0 anywhere.

    What does the width measurement look like at a reasonable snow riding pressure, say 15psi on that 32 mm rim?

  27. #27
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    i won't have it out for a ride till i rebuild the wheels, so no ride impression for at least a week. i'll get the width later today, when i dig up my calipers from whichever pile of crap they're burried under.

    i previously has a set of 24" x 3" gazzaloddi's, for a monster trials bike, and i remember the sidewalls being noticeably stiffer in hand(off the bike) than on there. they are heavy, of course, but i don't have a gram scale. pain in the a$$ to mount, of course. they have a lip that sits right over the edge of the rim. i would say it's worth it. unicycle.com had em on sale when i ordered mine. they still might be.

  28. #28
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    29er rims?

    Helibee, are those the Kris Holm 700c x 38mm muni rims on your current bike pic? How do you like them?

    Since you have tried the 26x3.0 Gazzaloddi's and 29" Rampages on what looks like the KH rim, and apparently have chosen the 29" as your preference instead of the 26" fatties, can you tell us why you chose the 29"?

    Frankly I am a little conflicted that I am actually ordering a new 26" wheelset... I own an El Mariachi and a Niner One9 and never expected to be spending any money on more 26" stuff unless it was for my kids...

    If I could only find a nice 46mm wide 29er rim...

  29. #29
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    "Helibee, are those the Kris Holm 700c x 38mm muni rims on your current bike pic? How do you like them?" Yep, KH rims on the Sheep. I love them and won't be swapping them out anytime soon. I ran DT 7.1s prior to the KHs. I didn't like the squirm associated with the narrow rims and low pressures. I also had to do a bit of trueing to the DTs. Nothing major, but I hate trueing my rims. I'm not a heavy weight and wanted more durabilty. (DT=Quality built by Mike Garcia) The KHs were built by MS.

    Since you have tried the 26x3.0 Gazzaloddi's and 29" Rampages on what looks like the KH rim, and apparently have chosen the 29" as your preference instead of the 26" fatties, can you tell us why you chose the 29"?
    I run the Gazzi's on the IRO Mia pictured above. I chose the Rampages for the Sheep for a couple of reasons. Less tire/wheel swapping for one and they work well all around (for me). I have noticed a couple of 'traits' between the two in the snow. The Gazzi's tend to float in fresh, unmarred powder better and it is quite noticable. We recently have received several feezing rains here in the Midwest, which has left a crust. I've found I really work hard and have to keep the momentum up with the Gazzi's when conditions allow for breakthroughs or when crossing sharp depressions similar to footsteps/ruts with this crust. The Rampages have the advantage in the crust conditions described above, or on packed trails for no other reason than rolling resistance. They emulate the 29er strengths by rolling over and maintaining momentum better. The Gazzi's are 'BIG' and have alot of knobs and really look cool! They're both fun.

  30. #30
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    Beavis and Butthead snicker

    My ride today on fat 26" tires. Flotation is incredible on snowmobile trails and I can ride singletrack if the snow conditions are right (up to 4" of crusty stuff)
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    Last edited by mtnbikerx; 12-31-2007 at 05:44 AM.
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  31. #31
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    Are those Remolines? Is that a Fatcity frame?

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    Remolinos and the Frame is a Wildfire Fatbike.
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  33. #33
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    Is it really such a good idea to replace a larger wheel for a smaller one for snow? Smaller wheels tend to get stuck much easier. From my experience so far, my schwalbe racing ralphs 29x2.4 rolls better in snow conditions than my old Gazza Jr 26x2.6, with just as good traction.

    I guess a 36" wheel bike with proper tires should be superior for winter riding..

  34. #34
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    the endomorphs measure out at about 29" in diameter(i think), so it's really not a smaller wheel. it's just as large in diameter but a hell of alot wider.

    the 26" x 3" tires have worked well for alot of others, i'm seeing how well they'll work for me. a 29" wheel with 3"+ tires would be friggen great, but one would have to make the tires themselves out of a couple pairs of other tires.

  35. #35
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    Duro 3.0 and KM

    Does that 3.0 fit on the rear of the KM? How much clearance is (or isn't) there??

    Thanks,
    DT

    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    my duro 26 x 3 tires came today, and i mounted them up to an old set of wheels i have laying around with 32mm azonic hoops on them. i will have to rebuild the wheels for them to be functional, as they're non-disc, but i mounted the front on my karate monkey and took some photos to see what the differences actually are.

  36. #36
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    with the wheel slammed, it has about 1/4" on either side on the chainstays, and more on the seatstays. clearance is not an issue.

  37. #37
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Intriguing

    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    with the wheel slammed, it has about 1/4" on either side on the chainstays, and more on the seatstays. clearance is not an issue.
    That's intriguing. Pics please.

  38. #38
    is buachail foighneach me
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    chainstays - i drew two little green lines on the photo where the tire is at it's closest(tread) to the frame:


    seatstays - these actually make the tire look small...:

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    chainstays - i drew two little green lines on the photo where the tire is at it's closest(tread) to the frame:


    seatstays - these actually make the tire look small...:
    Could you measure that widest point, and what is the distance from the axle to that widest point? I'm checking to see if I can get those to fit in my Inbred 29er. Thanks!
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  40. #40
    is buachail foighneach me
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    center of axle to widest point (of tire): a couple of hairs over 13"
    widest point (of tire), approximately: a hair over 2 7/8"
    Last edited by sean salach; 12-31-2007 at 03:20 PM.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    center of axle to widest point (of tire): a couple of hairs over 13"
    widest point (of tire), approximately: a hair over 2 7/8"
    Precise approximations! Love it. Thank you.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  42. #42
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Precise approximations! Love it. Thank you.
    All measurements are approximations.

  43. #43
    is buachail foighneach me
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    what if i said: it's exactly as big as it is.

  44. #44
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    He's just itching for a fight; he has a chip on his shoulder about something and is spreading the angst around in different forums here in the last few days.

    Precise approximations works exactly for me!
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  45. #45
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    Great info on this thread and sounds like several of us are considering many of the same options here.

    I ended up cancelling my Echo 26'er wheel build today...I just could not bear to spend money on a new 26" wheel set. I must say my confidence is building riding the 29er in the snow. I ran the tires (Nevegal 2.2's on Delgado Disc 29mm rims) down to 15psi on todays ride, and was riding on top of crusted snow...it was a little freaky (in a good way). All basically standard 29'er stuff, no DH monster tires or anything. I think Funkenstein's earlier point on diameter vs. width was right on...both are good but diameter might be even more important within reasonable bounds.

    Now I am more focused on putting my winter cycling dollar towards 29er stuff, so looking at the Kris Holm 38mm wide 29er rim. It is a heavy mutha...but the closest alternative being the upcoming Salso Gordo 29er Disc at what looks like $120 a pop...I can just push the weight or pull out my drill. ;-)

  46. #46
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    He's just itching for a fight; he has a chip on his shoulder about something and is spreading the angst around in different forums here in the last few days.

    Precise approximations works exactly for me!
    I communicated a fundamental truth. You're the one that seems to have a chip on your shoulder.

    I didn't argue with the statement. But it's redundant. All measurements can be expressed to a given precision. This is the limit of what your measuring device is capable of. It is impossible to measure anything EXACTLY. Nuclear decay and the heisenberg principle would thwart you at that point.

    Counting however is another matter.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    But it's redundant.
    I happen to like repetitive redundancies.
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  48. #48
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    can't counting be a measurement though? what if i were to be a nano-scientist(i'm getting in over my head here), and i measured something out to be exactly 6 electrons in a given dimension? that would be pretty precise.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    can't counting be a measurement though? what if i were to be a nano-scientist(i'm getting in over my head here), and i measured something out to be exactly 6 electrons in a given dimension? that would be pretty precise.
    But how are you going to measure it? If you use a tool to measure something, how sure can you be of the accuracy of the tool used? What was used to make it? How was it calibrated? yada yada yada...the level of confidence of your measurement can only be as good as the level of confidence in your measuring stick, and even then you have human error too (eyesight, parallax error - and no, that's not a mistake Shimano made when they released their Parallax hubs...)

    WillSmith mentioned the Heisenberrg Uncertainty Principle - which doesn't really apply here, but it is kinda interesting, and it means that you can't measure something without changing what you are trying to measure. Imagine you want to know how hot your coffee is. Stick in a thermometer, and Bob's your uncle, right? Well, coffee is hot, and the thermometer was probably at room temp or 37 degrees celsius (depending on what it was used for previously...better check the smell). Given that the thermometer is cooler than the coffee, when you stick it in the coffee, it is going to cause the temp of the coffee to drop a bit (yes, only a little bit, which doesn't really matter for your coffee, but there are situations where it does), and thus you can't measure the temperature of your coffee without changing it. Man, him and his thermometers in the punch all the time, that Heisenberg musta been fun at parties, just like WillSmithNWI.

    The diference with counting is that it's absolute. Not too much doubt about whether there are six apples on the table.

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSingleGuy

    WillSmith mentioned the Heisenberrg Uncertainty Principle - which doesn't really apply here, but it is kinda interesting, and it means that you can't measure something without changing what you are trying to measure. Imagine you want to know how hot your coffee is. .
    Which is why I didn't refer to it exactly by name. We aren't dealing with atoms. But you explained my point well. To measure EXACTLY would likely change it and render your measurement useless. Going back to your punch example, there is water in it that is likely evaporating at some rate. So this is another source of invalidating your measurements.

    Hence, all measurement are approximations. And ... you all should have learned this in Chemistry class!!!! Just because your calculator is capable of producing 8 digits past the decimal, it doesn't mean you should actually USE them.

    Now, when you get into the field of "guesstimation" you're saying something else. You're saying you didn't measure you just guessed leaving you we a whopping ZERO significant digits ;-)

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    can't counting be a measurement though? what if i were to be a nano-scientist(i'm getting in over my head here), and i measured something out to be exactly 6 electrons in a given dimension? that would be pretty precise.
    Well, if you were doing nanoscience you would not have the ability to measure an electron as nano is 10^-9m and nanotechnology is the realm of 1 to 100nm. An electron's radius is actually variable, but it is somewhere around 10^-18m and we have no instrumentation that can measure that small. So you can count how many feet there is in a mile, but the distance traveled depends on whose feet are doing the walking.

    And the coffe is a good quantum mechanics way of looking at things. When you take a measurement you change the system. There is a pretty famous experiment. If you have a dual slit diffraction experiment and want to know how many photons go through one slip, you setup a detector to measure the quantity of photons and all of a sudden the photons are no longer acting like waves, they are particles and just go through and the other hole the photons are still acting like waves and you get single slit diffraction. So you can know very specifically the change in position, but know nothing of the change in momentum (or vise versa). The change in time and energy have the same relationship. Think of it like being in a dark room with a stick and ping pong ball. You're searching around and you hit the ball with the stick and you know exactly where it was, and a slight idea of how hard you hit it and which way. So a thermometer is really just a measurement of the energy of the system, but it took energy to find the energy.

    So, uh, yeah, wide tires for snow are cool.

  52. #52
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    Schmucker, ROFL
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    can't counting be a measurement though? what if i were to be a nano-scientist(i'm getting in over my head here), and i measured something out to be exactly 6 electrons in a given dimension? that would be pretty precise.
    Yes, you could count to describe the size of nano-structures. And in many cases, that would tell you the mass of that structure. But you wouldn't count the number of aluminum atoms to determine the weight of your frame. Besides being impractical, the next time your frame rubbed up against something, you would probably strip some off.

    I'm not dissing measurement. In most cases "close enough" is an excellent description of precision.

  54. #54
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    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  55. #55
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    no snow around here, but there is a big, sandy river. Reallly dry, loose sand, never packs down, always a bugger to even walk on, but there aren't many trails within riding distance of home, so I am trying to ride out here. 29x2.55 is ALMOST enough, maybe a wide rim would do it, but I can't be buying another wheelset. The bummer is that my LBS was selling Gazzalodi 3.0s for about $10 each a month or two ago....

    Had to run silly-low pressure to get around, but I could do it, and it was fun.
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  56. #56
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    Tire measurements

    OK, enough of the measurememnt uncertainty crap. I measured some actual tires on actual rims with actual digital calipers, sizes posted below:

    Halo Choir Master tires mounted tubeless on Stans Flow:
    Rim width (outside): 28.1mm
    Tread width: 57.8mm
    Casing width: 55.6mm

    Panaracer Rampage mounted w/ tube on WTB Laserdisc Trail 29er:
    Rim width (outside): 27.1mm
    Tread width: 59.7mm
    Casing width: 55.0mm

    WTB Weirwolf mounted w/ tube on WTB Laserdisc Trail 29er:
    Tread width: 57.0mm
    Casing width: 56.8mm

    Below are two big 26" tires, both mounted on Sun Rhyno Lite rims w/ tubes:
    Rim width: 27.6mm

    WTB Timberwolf Race 2.7:
    Tread width: 68.5mm
    Casing width: 57.4mm

    Gazzaloddi 3.0:
    Tread width: 72.5mm
    Casing width: 66.0mm

    I am still hoping for a larger volume 29er tire, the Weirwolf is not as big as I had hoped. I am hoping to do a direct comparison of the a set of 29er tires and a set of fat 26" tires. Bike will be my 29er frame, and I have the above 3 wheelsets ready to go. I am still looking for another Gazzaloddi for the rear, but have been unsuccesful, anyone have one to donate for my testing ? For my needs, I think the fat 26" combo will still work better, mostly because I have to climb actual hills in the snow, and the WW knobs are just too low for good traction. This will obviosly depend on the snow conditions as well. No I just need some snow! It is supposed to be 60 degrees here in southern NY next week!

    Mark

  57. #57
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    mark, go with the duro 26 x 3 from unicycle.com. should be just as good as the nokian.

  58. #58
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    here's a few update pics of it all built up. the tires are now on 46mm viz rims.





    10psi in the tires, and 200lbs of me on the saddle. these tires are tough. and they weigh more than the wheels they're mounted too...


  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    here's a few update pics of it all built up. the tires are now on 46mm viz rims.

    Nice. Very voluminous. Do the measurements still hold with your post #40 above? These are a wider rim now, correct?
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  60. #60
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    the tread increased width by a hair, but the casing now measures almost as wide as the tread. previously the tread stuck out 1/8" - 1/4" on either side. it also has a significantly less round profile, more flat, which should be better for float. unfortunately all of our snow ran away . clearly in fear of this bike.

  61. #61
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    just buy a pugsley. it can take 26x3.7 and 29er wheels. i will take a pic.
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  62. #62
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    this was cheaper than buying a pugsley, and lighter. that's not to say the bike is light, but a similar build on a pugs would be a couple of lbs heavier. 32lbs all built up as shown above. the only light-ish parts on it though are the spokes - supercomps, headset - orbitx(i think), grips - esi and kinda the hubs, being paul. i'm sure i could make it much, much lighter.

  63. #63
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    Whew Sean, those tires look like they'd be a bear to keep in motion on longer snow rides.

    Kris Holm rims are 38mm wide, 29er SnoCat rims, at 44mm wide are getting pretty rare these days, but these became available lately at 50mm wide. I mounted up some on my WaltWorks, and now it has me anxious for the availability of a wider 29er tire!

    For those of you with 29ers that don't want to invest in more 26" wheelsets, these rims are available in Anchorage from Speedway Cycles.

    I'm diggin' the experimentation you guys are doing due to the absence of larger 29er tires, but it seems like we need a combined shout to the Surly guys to come out with a 29er version of the Endomorph. Something in the 2.7 - 3.0 range would rock!

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  64. #64
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    I live in CA, so no snow; I do have some areas in a state park that I might be able to do some long sand dune / beach rides. I'm having some Kris Holms rims built on a trials disc hub that I will run fixed with a TomiCog on my Inbred.

    You guys are doing some new fun experiments here. Sure you can buy a Pug, but some of us do not have the money, but this is great, pushing the limits, trying new ideas.
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  65. #65
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    rando,

    i've actually been surprised so far at how light the bike rides, despite the tires. somehow, i think they'll outperform your waltworks setup if the su100 get's the kind of weather that is predicted. not saying i'll outperform anything, just that those 3" tires with big lugs will grip and float soft stuff better than umas with wws. i do have wws though, and will be fondling uma in a couple of days when i arrive up there.

  66. #66
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    alright, after a week and a half in alska, here's my review of this setup:

    it really works incredibly well. when the snow got deep, soft and punchy, the larger endomorphed guys had an advantage, but it wasn't a huge one. for the first few days, and unfortunately the susitna, i hadn't quite figured out the whole low pressure deal. i was running 20-25psi, which is pretty hard considering how stiff the sidewalls are. once i dropped it down to between 5-10, it was like night and day. i just floated and tracked straight were previously i would have been fishtailing(and nosing) and digging in. on subsequent group rides where the other riders were on endomorphs with rims of various widths, it seemed like i could ride 99% of what they could, and vice versa, as i was getting better traction where the trail got to be loose over hardpack snow. makes me wonder if lower gearing would have had me riding everything they were or not...

    there are definitely situations where the endomorphs on rims of increasing width have a big advantage, and my next bike will probably be bike capable of handling endomorphs in the deep snow/run as a 29er the rest of the time. but for the meantime, this setup is great. the stiffer casing on the duro tire allows me to run lower pressure than someone of the same weight on the same conditions could on an endo. the other plus side to this setup is the fact that i now have a bomber freeride/park/whatever wheelset.

    it's all about options.

    in my opinion, a 26 x 3" setup in a 29er frame is better for many snow conditions than a wide 29er rim with a <29 x 2.5(true) tire.

  67. #67
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    here's some news. i hadn't even thought to check if it would fit. i just assumed it wouldn't. my sister drove me home today since she was going this way, so i had the km apart(i was running the rear 26x3), and i also had the wheels off my gf rig. so i decided to see how they fit, and surprise surprise...

    looks better than in the km, has a higher bb, but slightly less clearance on the sides. the tires measure at a split hair below 3" at their widest point. test ride to come.




  68. #68
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    Really a 4" 29er Endomorph would rock- we would have a sort of 32er

  69. #69
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    carefully with that indefinite article, dave. don't want to give up the game....

  70. #70
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    hi sean , im just wondering how the 26 x 3" worked out after extended use, i cant decide on running my 2.55 ww on 29er wheels as they seem to cope pretty well in the snow and buy some stud tyres for the icey conditions to follow

    or buy a pair of 26 x 3" nokians

    how do the 3" work on ice is it still as slippy as the ww or any better.

    thanks

  71. #71
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    [QUOTE=we need a combined shout to the Surly guys to come out with a 29er version of the Endomorph. Something in the 2.7 - 3.0 range would rock![/QUOTE]

    I agree. That would be ideal for my set up, and I suspect I'm not the only one for whom such a tire would eliminate the need for purchasing another wheel set.

  72. #72
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    Firestarter, get studs for ice, endos for float, 26 x 3" dh tires for traction, and 29" tires for everything in between.

    pierre meux, a 3" 29er tire will not fit in your frame.

  73. #73
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    Sean, I'd want a 2.7. With sliders all the way back a 3" 29er would leave me 4-5mm clearance on each side. Too close for comfort. Front fits fat.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux
    Sean, I'd want a 2.7. With sliders all the way back a 3" 29er would leave me 4-5mm clearance on each side. Too close for comfort. Front fits fat.

    Which frame is it? 5mm on either side isn't too bad really.

  75. #75
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    It's a Coconino, not a production frame.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    Firestarter, get studs for ice, endos for float, 26 x 3" dh tires for traction, and 29" tires for everything in between.

    pierre meux, a 3" 29er tire will not fit in your frame.
    So how do you think the 26 X 3" tire would work on the front of a 29" bike for rocks???
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  77. #77
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    I suspect the diameter will be less than the 29er rear...may affect geometry slightly.


  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny

    WTB Timberwolf race 2.7, also not in production anymore, but they can still be found relatively easily,

    Mark
    Where can you find these? I haven't found any. At least not with a couple of hours searching on line one night a couple of months ago. They are my favorite tire.



    Also Arrow Savage 3.0 are out of production as well.
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    So how do you think the 26 X 3" tire would work on the front of a 29" bike for rocks???

    As jnc noted, the outside diameter is smaller by about 1.5". It'll make the geometry kinda screwy unless you go with a 30+mm longer fork. I would think it better to go 26 x 3 rear, 29 x burly front.

    edit: if you were inclined to do such a thing.

  80. #80
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    my nokians arrived ;-) now what pressure for snow ???


  81. #81
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    Lookin bad-ass! Which Gazzas are those?

  82. #82
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    The gazz thingys can't remember name the three inch ones

  83. #83
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    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/empire_rdr/5247574193/" title="Monkey on a bench by BForrer, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5247574193_b8e9e98c27.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="Monkey on a bench" /></a>

    Fat Front does fine for me! I do want a set of those speedway rims though!

  84. #84
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    dredge.....

    can anyone give me a diameter/radius of the duro 26x3 on a wide ish rim?

    thanks!...

  85. #85
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    [IMG]

    Duro Wildlife Leopard 26x3 Tyre on 40mm rim

    [IMG]

    Duro tye clearance at chainstay on 1x1
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  86. #86
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    Anyone around here has experience with the Conti Diesel 2.5? Mesurements, etc

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Anyone around here has experience with the Conti Diesel 2.5? Mesurements, etc
    The Diesel Pro measures 60mm tread knobs out to out on a 44mm Snowcat rim. For comparison a Larry on a 47mm rim runs about 85mm and on an 80mm rim 92mm.
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  88. #88
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    Thank you.
    Thats somewhat disapointing. My current Rampages 2.35 (29er) measure 60mm on the thread mounted on 25mm rims, so I guess there not much difference. Was expecting the Diesels to go at least a little over 60mm

    PS: What about the Schwalbe Muddy Mary 2.5?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy View Post
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    That looks amazing! Did you have to mod the frame to get the back wheel to fit okay?

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    A thread back from the dead. Its like reading a history book.
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