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  1. #1
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    E13 Cranks on Pug HELP!

    So I've been using E13 snow cranks on my Pugs for about a year. No problems until todays ride when the non drive side arm fell off!

    My original installation was 1 BB spacer on the non drive side and 1BB plus E Type plate on the drive side. The spindle washer set up was one plastic washer plus the wavy washer.

    When I got home I took everything apart, re-greased, re-assembled, re-tourqed and noticed that I could squish the non drive side crank arm a few mm and the wavy washer would spring it back. So I added 2 more plastic washers to the non-drive side for a total of 3 plastic washers and one wavy washer. There is no visible play and the cranks still spin freely.

    I'm not sure if the BB seals just got squished over time creating the need for more washers or if I just didn't have enough in the first place. So, if you have these cranks on your Pug what is your set up and has it worked?

  2. #2
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
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    Getting the proper torque on e13s is a PITA. My nd crank has loosened up twice now. Adding washers is not the answer, you need to tighten down the cranks with the proper spacing per the instructions. Mine were a bit resistant to free spinning but loosened up eventually. Not the best set up IMO, but once tight OK.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkaber View Post
    So I've been using E13 snow cranks on my Pugs for about a year. No problems until todays ride when the non drive side arm fell off!

    My original installation was 1 BB spacer on the non drive side and 1BB plus E Type plate on the drive side. The spindle washer set up was one plastic washer plus the wavy washer.

    When I got home I took everything apart, re-greased, re-assembled, re-tourqed and noticed that I could squish the non drive side crank arm a few mm and the wavy washer would spring it back. So I added 2 more plastic washers to the non-drive side for a total of 3 plastic washers and one wavy washer. There is no visible play and the cranks still spin freely.

    I'm not sure if the BB seals just got squished over time creating the need for more washers or if I just didn't have enough in the first place. So, if you have these cranks on your Pug what is your set up and has it worked?
    "I could squish the non drive side crank arm a few mm and the wavy washer would spring it back."

    Do you mean than the non drive side arm was moving on the crank axle? Or do you mean than the entire crank (NDS arm, axle, DS arm) was moving back and forth within the BB bearings?

  4. #4
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    Yes, the drive side arm, non drive side arm and spindle move together as a whole unit within the BB. I never noticed because the wavy washer preloaded the set up and the cranks worked great. I added 2 more plastic washers and now assembly is snugged up and torqued to 45 NM. My theory is that the e type plate is thinner than a BB spacer...so I could either have 3 BB spacers and only use a single wavy washer or use 2 BB spacers and the wavy washer plus 2 plastic washers. Not sure which is better.

  5. #5
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    If the NDS arm was torqued properly, I doubt the movement you noticed was related to the arm falling off.

    Probably doesn't matter how you arrange the spacers, though I like to avoid BB spacers whenever possible, to get maximum engagement of BB the cup threads.

  6. #6
    How much does it weigh?
    Reputation: Borgschulze's Avatar
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    Don't understand why everyone is having issues with these cranks.

    Put them on the bike without the washers... bottom out the crank bolt, slide in as many washers that fit snugly between the NDS arm and the BB, remove a spacer, and replace with wave washer... take the NDS arm off, put the stack of spacers + wave washer on the spindle, put the NDS arm on again and bottom out the bolt.

    You can yell and scream all you want about silly torque specs, but this isn't a perfect world.

    If you have not enough, or too much grease on the bolt, the torque spec will not read correctly, and you'll end up screwing it up.

    That's a HUGE bolt for a bicycle, bottom it out, it won't come lose again.

    The wave washer should be nearly flat, mine has about 0.5mm of side to side room, if you have too much, or not enough, maybe consider facing the BB shell a bit, so you can achieve an almost flat, but not flat washer.

  7. #7
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    Everyone is having so many problems because they are sweet cranks with a foolish attachment system! What I'm getting at is a year ago I'm pretty sure I didn't have play. My frame was new, and the BB was faced. I installed per directions and torqued to specs. Over torquing is silly. You should be using just enough to torque to keep a part on with out cranking and stripping threads. I'm just wondering if the seals on the BB compressed a little over the past year and now I need more spacers. I don't know.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkaber View Post
    I'm just wondering if the seals on the BB compressed a little over the past year and now I need more spacers.
    That seems likely. Any new installation needs time and use to settle in. Shimano cranks will do the same thing, but because they use a preload bolt (instead of spacers) they are more convenient to adjust.

    I still think that the arm coming loose is unrelated to the spacer issue. The bolt probably just came loose of its own accord, for whatever reason. It sounds to me like you initially installed them correctly, and didn't make the mistake others have, of treating the attachment bolt as a preload bolt (like a Shimano crank) and not getting the left side arm tightened onto its interface properly.

    Usually I don't worry too much about torque specs, but I do in the case of these cranks because of the aluminum attachment bolt.

  9. #9
    How much does it weigh?
    Reputation: Borgschulze's Avatar
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    The crank relies on 100% contact on the polygon.

    This isn't an engine block that sees heat cycles with every use, make sure the crank arm is full seated.

    Your problems will go away. that is, if you haven't already damaged the cranks by having them come loose.

    I've put a ridiculous amount of torque on that bolt, it's very strong. I've also removed the arm several times.

    Go against your superior torquing regime, and just crank it till it stops.

  10. #10
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    They are damaged but I think will work. Some of the gold coating came off the mating surface on the spindle. They came loose while riding and then I tightened with a mini tool and rode another 6 miles in the snow. Looks like they should be fine though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borgschulze View Post
    The crank relies on 100% contact on the polygon.

    This isn't an engine block that sees heat cycles with every use, make sure the crank arm is full seated.

    Your problems will go away. that is, if you haven't already damaged the cranks by having them come loose.

    I've put a ridiculous amount of torque on that bolt, it's very strong. I've also removed the arm several times.

    Go against your superior torquing regime, and just crank it till it stops.
    The factory torque specs are fine, provided (as you say) that the interface is 100% in contact. I have always torqued mine to spec, and it has never fallen off.

    What I have observed a lot of people doing with these cranks is ignoring the torque specs, putting too many shims in, and just tightening the bolt until the bearings start to drag. In other words, treating them like Shimano cranks.

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