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  1. #1
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    Drilling Large Marge Rims

    Can anybody reccommend or advise against this.
    How many holes and what size holes would you drill.
    Would the rims still be strong enough for trail centres and rocky decents etc.
    How much would it improve the bikes rolling or climbing ability.
    Is there anything that I need to consider?

    Cheers

  2. #2
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    LM's seem a little trickier since they are double wall rims. Do you have the standard or XC version? The XC's have the inner wall semi-drilled already. The Handspun/Pugs complete rims are standard/non-drilled.

  3. #3
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    Use the search function here and on Google, several threads already. Can be done, still strong.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

    My blog.

  4. #4
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    I plan on drilling out my LM rim in the next few days.

    I've done three GFS rims so far without any problems so may as well do the same with the Marge.

    As for strength. If the GFS can take it the LM definitley can.

  5. #5
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    Anyone got a diagram that shows where the re enforcing ribs are between the outer and inner rims are?( On the none offset version.)

    I want to avoid drilling through them if at all possible.

  6. #6
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    http://www.jaypsdirt.com/blog/68-making-the-upgrade

    that's about the only documentation I've been able to find on drilling large marges. there have been a few threads talking about it, but not much for photos or detailed instruction.

  7. #7
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    Well seen as I couldn't get any info on the internal ribbing on the rim I thought i'd better just go ahead and drill it anyway just to see what happened.

    Went with 30mm holes through the middle of the rim. Turns out that cut through the ribbing but it didn't seem to make drilling them any harder. Apart from it took forever to keep clearing the waste out the middle of the holesaw.
    Took a lot longer to clean the holes up and get rid of all the burrs too.

    Anyway it all turned out well and looks quite cool being able to see how the rim's built.


    2011_0212holeymarge0004 by singlespeedstu, on Flickr

  8. #8
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    So you lost a good amount of weight on the rims.
    But now there is room inside the rims to replace all that weight for a load of mud that will stick in there.
    It does look very good !

  9. #9
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    i can see the point but they will just fill with dirt and be difficult to clean for me

    ive got the xc versions so they are a bit lighter anyway

  10. #10
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    After todays ride the bikes were fully caked in ****e but there was hardly even a spot of mud on the rimstrip.

    The XC's would be even lighter with a bit of work on them.

    When I've got a bit more time i'm going to cut out most of if not all of the inner rim.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    After todays ride the bikes were fully caked in ****e but there was hardly even a spot of mud on the rimstrip...
    Nothing a bit of duct tape wouldn't fix
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  12. #12
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    That looks awesome, but I would be afraid of packing the rim full of crap between the walls ?

  13. #13
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    Just saved 420gm on these bad boys with 44mm holes. Am tempted to drill the other rim slightly differently and get 22mm-ish holes in there too...would only save another 105gm though.

    Has anyone had problems with drilled rims? I.e. has anyone reached the limit of how much to drill?

    EDIT stu - what's the blue rime tape? Looks nice. Chris King?


  14. #14
    How much does it weigh?
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    Did you re-drill spoke holes in the edge of the rim?

    I have 42mm holes in my GFS and wouldn't dare go bigger.

    Been commuting to work for 3 weeks and ride the occasional XC trails on mine, without issue.

  15. #15
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    EDIT stu - what's the blue rime tape? Looks nice
    It's just some blue ribon from a local dress making shop.

  16. #16
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    I hear they know you well

  17. #17
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    That's right.

    I wouldn't be seen dead in an ordinary run of the mill off the shelf dress.

    Only custom built top end will do for me.

  18. #18
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    SSS

    Do you think that your drilled LM's will still be strong enough for everyday riding, trail centres etc. How much weight do you think that you've saved and do you notice any difference on a ride, are there any change in the wheels characteristics or the way they roll?

  19. #19
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    What do you think of this approach compared to the hole saw. There'll be no need for dressmakers ribbon or any tape, no worries about muck. Pros ? cons ?

    Large Marge surgery

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm going to be building up a Fatbike and was inspired by DirtDad's conversion of his Large Marge rims into single wall rims. Last night I did the same, starting with one offset rim and one non-offset rim. I used my table saw and made multiple cuts circumferentially with a carbide blade. I still need to do a bunch of sanding to clean it all up. This cuts about 1/2 pound per rim.
    Attached Images

  20. #20
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    LM surgery by Moose.2008, on Flickr

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose2008
    SSS

    Do you think that your drilled LM's will still be strong enough for everyday riding, trail centres etc. How much weight do you think that you've saved and do you notice any difference on a ride, are there any change in the wheels characteristics or the way they roll?
    As I was alluding to above, I think the only folk that can give proper comment on how far drilling can go is those who have pushed and found the boundaries...having drilled a rim out and then looking at it, sucking in air through teeth and saying "Ooooh I wouldn't want it to go any lighter than that" doesn't really mean anything. If someone can say "I drilled the rim out this much and then the wheel broke" then that's something.

  22. #22
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    "Ooooh I wouldn't want it to go any lighter than that" doesn't really mean anything.
    You're right al.

    Just keep on drilling until it fails on you on a steep rocky trail.

    There is no right and wrong on this. Just what you feel safe with.
    Having seen how much tension my front lost after drilling I wouldn't feel safe going any bigger for my kind of riding.

    Be great to see just how far someone else can go though.

  23. #23
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    SSS
    What is your kind of riding?
    What do you think of the approach used above strength wise compared to the one that you used?

  24. #24
    How much does it weigh?
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    If you look at the rim with the tire and rim strip off.. you can see the wall being pulled by the spoke.

    I guess I could drill more smaller holes around the bigger hole, but it's not worth the weight savings for me. I believe if I drilled more holes I will have a hard time keeping the wheel straight.

    I'm already risking early fatigue failure by having the holes so close to the spokes.

  25. #25
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    moose.

    Best thing you can do is experiment for yourself.

    It'd be a bit pointless trying to describe my riding as I ride all over the UK.

    But I think it's a safe bet you'd be OK if your only riding trail centeres.

    No idea about cutting the middle out the rim. I'll try it out for myself when I get time.

    Why don't you try it and tell everyone about it?

  26. #26
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    Stu are you a follower rather than a leader?

    Fair enough re the individual's perception, and I bow to your experience re loss of tension, it just seems to me that even with a heavily drilled rim like mine, it's still over twice the weight of my xc rims which run fine - under 2" of rubber rather than 4". It would be cool if someone could do some FEA and work out how light you can go.

  27. #27
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    Stu are you a follower rather than a leader?


    Just ask yourself how many times you've emailed me for advice before you ask questions like that.

  28. #28
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    Pffft I see far by standing on your shoulders 8-)

  29. #29
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    I'm not sure my shoulders are strong enough to hold up your ego.

  30. #30
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    Heh. BTW I've completely ****ed up drilling my rim, I dished it way too far to one side. Gonna have to re-drill.

    Ah well at least I've saved enough weight to allow me to patch up the wrong holes and paint it

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic-al
    ...I've saved enough weight to allow me to patch up the wrong holes...
    Or,

    ...I'm going to stick Veloplugs in the "small lightening" holes ...

    Last edited by Velobike; 02-15-2011 at 01:30 AM.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  32. #32
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    any more pics of that bike bigshulze? niceeee

  33. #33
    How much does it weigh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikecrazy55
    any more pics of that bike bigshulze? niceeee
    Here.

  34. #34
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    BTW I've completely ****ed up drilling my rim
    Was that anything to do with wine by any chance?

  35. #35
    Albany West Oz
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    SSS what about chucking some rubber grommets in the holes, auto shops have them...?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Don't grow up, it's a trap.

  36. #36
    How much does it weigh?
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    That would negate weight savings a lot?

  37. #37
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    The rim is fine the way it is.

    If it starts to cause a problem I'll just stick some heli tape over the holes.
    That way you can still see the nice blue rim tape.

  38. #38
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    Old thread, I know... but anyone have pics or a write-up on doing this on an offset LM wheelset?
    Last edited by WheelieWonka; 01-31-2012 at 12:01 PM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelieWonka View Post
    Old thread, I know... but anyone have a pics or a write-up on doing this on an offset LM wheelset?
    I am in the same boat. Thinking about doing it to my stock 2011 Pugsley wheels.

  40. #40
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    Much rather shave weight by drilling then dropping $$$ on a new wheelset...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WheelieWonka View Post
    Old thread, I know... but anyone have pics or a write-up on doing this on an offset LM wheelset?
    I'm in the progress of working on drilling the an offset LM rim and taking pics along the way. I've been procrastinating but should have it finished with a writeup in the next week or so.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassnipples View Post
    I'm in the progress of working on drilling the an offset LM rim and taking pics along the way. I've been procrastinating but should have it finished with a writeup in the next week or so.
    That would be GREAT!

  43. #43
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    I have a LM XC 36 hole rim and I want a lighter rim, but I can't change to a 32 hole hub and the LM Light is not made in 36 hole.

    Given the choice, what would make more sense in terms of retaining strength and losing weight:

    1) Cut away the remaining inner wall so that the rim is single wall.
    2) Drill holes through the outer wall and retain the factory machined inner wall.

    I already run some trials rims on another ride that are drilled, so I'm not all that concerned about picking up mud and water. What I am concerned about is whether I can cut away the remaining inner wall enough to prevent the tube from being chaffed and cut.

    Any thoughts?

  44. #44
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    Drilling begins

    Here's the beginning of my Large Marge drilling project. This is an offset, 36 hole, DH version. I want to keep a solid line between the spoke holes, there is a ridge there that is quite thick so it should help the overall rigidity, plus I like the idea of the spokes being supported in two dimensions. I'm planning to do series of big holes at 1.25" and then possibly another set of smaller ones on the other side of the spoke holes. I know some people just remove the entire inner wall on these, I want to leave it but I may get more agressive with the material removal on that side. When it's all done it will be laced to an 8spd Alfine hub and setup as tubeless. I don't like the open slots that the double wall ends up leaving so I think a piece of helicopter tape should take care of that and hold up for a long time.

    Initial Weight
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-initial-weight.jpg

    Drilling Large Marge Rims-profile.jpg

    The vacuum thing didn't really work out, I'll just be cleaning the mess afterwards. The bit is 1.25"
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-setup.jpg

    Drilling Large Marge Rims-action.jpg

    You can see the internal bracing here
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-cross-section.jpg

    Drilling Large Marge Rims-plug.jpg

    I'm slightly nervous about how close the holes get to the edge, right at 8mm from the outer edge of the rim. There is plenty of lip for the bead and given that it's double wall I doubt it will be an issue.
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-backside.jpg
    Last edited by brassnipples; 02-04-2012 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typos

  45. #45
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    Nice work- using higher math, it looks like you will be down around the weight of a Holey Darryl. I bet it will still be stronger as well.

  46. #46
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    First round finished

    The first batch of holes is done. So far so good, except for one oops where I wasn't paying attention and drilled out the existing valve hole. Not too big of a dea, I just left the next gap open and will re drill a new on there.

    Oops
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-oops.jpg
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-slice-profile.jpg

    I couldn't find a regular deburing tool at harbor freight but this item caught my eye. Gotta love the guilt free modification of cheap tools.
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-debur-tool-1.jpgDrilling Large Marge Rims-debur-tool-2.jpgDrilling Large Marge Rims-debur-tool-modified.jpg

    Here's a debured hole with the tool, it works ok but it won't get the back side at all because of the profile so I had to use a normal file. This would be handy on a flat rim but the LM curves make it tougher.
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-debured.jpg

    Backside
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-backside.jpg

    Weight check.
    Drilling Large Marge Rims-weight-check.jpg
    Last edited by brassnipples; 02-05-2012 at 03:40 PM. Reason: resize images

  47. #47
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    adding some weight back

    Drilling Large Marge Rims-paint.jpg

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassnipples View Post
    ...I wasn't paying attention and drilled out the existing valve hole. Not too big of a dea, I just left the next gap open and will re drill a new on there...
    Is a valve hole necessary? I was thinking that putting the valve centrally in one of the large holes would provide some protection against tube drag at low pressures - ie less chance of getting the valve ripped.

    I'm going to try that when I get round to drilling some rims.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Is a valve hole necessary? I was thinking that putting the valve centrally in one of the large holes would provide some protection against tube drag at low pressures - ie less chance of getting the valve ripped..
    Maybe it isn't necessary, but I think it's better to leave the option in case having the valve in the large holes doesn't work out for some unexpected reason, leaving a valve hole is cheap insurance.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by brassnipples View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks Great!!

    Can you tell me a little about your measurements? What type of system did you use to determine where to make (center) your holes? I think I am going to try this over the weekend

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