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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Other than a bit of extra tire clearance, the frame is much more like a conventional (non-fat) MTB without all the fat specifc parts that drive up the cost on a fatbike. Standard MTB width crankset/BB, standard MTB hubs, non-offset frame & fork, missing front dérailleur and missing front shifter should all help to keep cost for this bike a bit lower than a pugsley with similar component level. The 29x3 tires probably cost as much as fat 26" tires but the narrower rims are probably easier/cheaper to produce than wider 26" rims.
    The frame, rims and tires and other parts will cost more because they are low volume - not because of how much rubber, steel or aluminum they use. I expect the cost to depend more on how bling'd out they decide to go with the spec.

    Update - found MSRP on MTBR's FB page via Boogiemang:

    One of the hottest bikes at QBP's SaddleDrive event is the new Krampus. A 29er fat bike with 3 inch tires. Complete bikes will be available around March with an MSRP of $1950. The complete production bike will feature:
    -1x10 Shimano SLX gruppo (mostly)
    -Salsa Whammy handlebar
    That's in the Necro Pugs range with a nice parts kit.
    Last edited by vikb; 07-23-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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  2. #352
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    So, Krampus' wheelset is a new reason to get a Pugsley instead of Moonlander as it is easier to build a Rabbit Hole wheels to 17,5 mm offset frame.

    Speaking of which, I have been thinking of building a 29er singlespeed for the next summer, but now it seems that an ss Krampug will do
    Last edited by kyttyra; 07-22-2012 at 01:44 AM.

  3. #353
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    What is the planned ETA of these rims and tires?

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm waiting for the full fat 29+ with 4" tires when Surly unveils the bigger badder Hippo-Krampus next year...
    I have a tumour on my Hippo-Krampus already. It affects my vision. All I can see is bike shop bills.

  5. #355
    R.I.P. Pugsley.
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    I already have been searching for plans for a dyi dialysis machine, to replace the kidney(s) i am going to sell

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyttyra View Post
    So, Krampus' wheelset is a new reason to get a Pugsley instead of Moonlander as it is easier to build a Rabbit Hole wheels to 17,5 mm offset frame
    With 28mm offset on the ML frame you can't build up a rim narrower than the 82mm Rolling Darryls without terrible spoke tension. So Marge Lites are out for summer use as are the new 50mm rims.

    With a Pugs you can run the 50mm rims all the way up to the Big Fat Larry 5" tire on an 82mm Rolling Darryl rim. There isn't clearance in a Pug for the BFL on 100mm rims.

    For most people the Pugs is a more useful machine that can be very versatile with a couple wheel sets. The ML does one thing the Pugs can't - massive flotation on 5" tires and 100mm rims.
    Last edited by vikb; 07-23-2012 at 08:37 AM.
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  7. #357
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    Surly Lou 4.8"



  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter View Post
    Surly Lou 4.8"

    A fatter Nate? Where's that pic from?

  9. #359
    Geordie biker
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    4.8!!!! my prayers are answered.....
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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  10. #360
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    Wahoo!!!

  11. #361
    A Surly Maverick
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    4.8" = 122mm !!!!

    MASSIVE
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  12. #362
    Anchorage, AK
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    I hope it's an ultralight.

  13. #363
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    The new 4.8" Surly Bud Tire...


  14. #364
    A Surly Maverick
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    WTF !!!

    (What Tyre & Fork )

    Surly are going rubber mad

    Moonlander owners beware.......your fiscal health is at increasingly MASSIVE risk
    A Fatback'd Lefty for who life IS a Beach

  15. #365
    Geordie biker
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    ohhhh yes.
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  16. #366
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Doooooooooooooooood..........








    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  17. #367
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    More Krampus shots...











    lifted from this post

  18. #368
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    Does anyone know the outside diameter of the Knard / Rabbit Hole combo?

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux View Post
    Does anyone know the outside diameter of the Knard / Rabbit Hole combo?
    33 3/16ths

  20. #370
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    [QUOTE=33 3/16ths [/QUOTE]

    Really? That's a lot. For comparison, my WW 2.55s on 47mm KH rims are 29.25" total outside diameter. 33 3/16ths means over 3" of additional tire height....

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux View Post
    Really?
    Note the in his post.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  22. #372
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    hmmmm decision 2.55 on k holm wheels now and using a bike I already have.... or put away over a grand for another bike......

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux View Post
    Does anyone know the outside diameter of the Knard / Rabbit Hole combo?
    See post #318 of this thread, it is basically identical diameter to 26x4.8 BFL so should be no problem of a pugs or any other fat bike that can take BFL..

  24. #374
    gone walk about
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Note the in his post.

  25. #375
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    From MTBR.com's facebook page:

    Surly Krampus (16 photos)
    the latest 29+ from Surly, Bringing the Darkness...

    One of the hottest bikes at QBP's SaddleDrive event is the new Krampus. A 29er fat bike with 3 inch tires. Complete bikes will be available around March with an MSRP of $1950. The complete production bike will feature:
    -1x10 Shimano SLX gruppo (mostly)
    -Salsa Whammy handlebar

    Frames and tires and rims will be available this Fall with an MSRP of $750 for the frame only.

    The Krampus was developed around the Surly Knard tire. 29er tire with a 3" width. The tread was inspired by dirt bike tires and the outside diameter of the Knard is 30.5".

    Complete bike weight (for a large) is about 30 lbs and the weight for large frame is about 6 lbs. The Krampus features the strongest tubeset that Surly has every produced and it is also one of the stiffest frames that Surly makes.

    The green paint has a really cool metal flake finish. Mtbr's very own Photo-John got to do a demo ride down one run at Snowbasin today. He was super stoked!
    https://www.facebook.com/Mtbrcom

  26. #376
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    OD = 30.5" ... Thanks BoogieMang.

  27. #377
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    $1950?!
    Jason
    Disclaimer: www.paramountsports.net

  28. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGI410 View Post
    $1950?!
    Yup...frame/fork is $750 I bet add in tires and rims and you'll be over $1K without being close to having a bike yet.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  29. #379
    Geordie biker
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    UK will be £1800 I heard!
    2014 milage so far - 2,485
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  30. #380
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    know what, there's no point in designing it "to use conventional parts" if we can't buy the frame alone and build it ourselves.
    If steel is real then aluminium is supercallafragiliniun!

  31. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts View Post
    know what, there's no point in designing it "to use conventional parts" if we can't buy the frame alone and build it ourselves.
    Why can't you buy the frame alone? I own a lot of Surlys and I've never bought a complete bike yet.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  32. #382
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by byknuts View Post
    know what, there's no point in designing it "to use conventional parts" if we can't buy the frame alone and build it ourselves.
    "Frames and tires and rims will be available this Fall with an MSRP of $750 for the frame only."

    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  33. #383
    gone walk about
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux View Post
    Really? That's a lot. For comparison, my WW 2.55s on 47mm KH rims are 29.25" total outside diameter. 33 3/16ths means over 3" of additional tire height....
    j/k

  34. #384
    gone walk about
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre meux View Post
    OD = 30.5" ... Thanks BoogieMang.
    do you feel better now?

  35. #385
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    I see an ultimate monstercross bike in my future. Now where will it go in my house?

  36. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by bykerider View Post
    I see an ultimate monstercross bike in my future. Now where will it go in my house?
    wall art

  37. #387
    @adelorenzo
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    Went down to LBS today and asked them to get a hold of a frameset, wheels and tires for me. It will remain to be seen if any make it north of the border, hope that Canada gets at least a few.

    Will be a winter commuter / singlespeed XC bike / bikepacking rig. Stoked about this bike and I love the paint.

  38. #388
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    If they're indeed 30.5" doesn't look like the rims & tires will be fitting either of my fat bike frames. Both are too short in the chain stays.

    Wonder if someone will eventually make a wider than 50mm 29er rim for these tires. Like to see these tires on a 65 for a higher floatation option.

  39. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    If they're indeed 30.5" doesn't look like the rims & tires will be fitting either of my fat bike frames. Both are too short in the chain stays.

    Wonder if someone will eventually make a wider than 50mm 29er rim for these tires. Like to see these tires on a 65 for a higher floatation option.
    How tall are the largest you have fitted? Consider that the difference with 30.5" is to be halved to get the loss in radial clearance. So if you have a 29.5" wheel, you'll lose 0.5" radially iwth the 30.5". I bet it will fit even a Pugsley, but clayey gravel might bring some additional scratches where the sun don't shine.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  40. #390
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    I'll be interested to see if both versions of the Knard actually weigh 820g. If they do, and given all the apparent lug weight, such a low overall light weight suggests that it will be very thin; that may not bode well for long-lasting durability in rocky terrain, for loaded dirt touring or bike-packing or general trail abuse. For comparison, the WW 2.55, which is actually much narrower than 2.55 and is a much smaller tire than the Knard, and which is not particularly durable in its own right, weighs 940g.

  41. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    If they're indeed 30.5" doesn't look like the rims & tires will be fitting either of my fat bike frames. Both are too short in the chain stays.
    .
    How long are your chainstays?

    The Pugs has 17.6" CS with the axle pushed all the way into the dropouts. 15.25" for half a wheel seems to leave over 2.35" of clearance les another 2" for BB shell and CS brace so you have 0.35" of tire clearance. You can also slide the axle back another inch if you are running an IGH or SS/FG setup.

    Along the seatstays it looks like 15.75" clearance on my Pugs with the axle pushed forward all the way.

    It makes sense that Surly designed it to work with the Pugs to provide some additional customers for the 29+ standard besides folks that buy a new bike.

    BTW - I'm running an 18" Pugs from 2008
    Last edited by vikb; 07-24-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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  42. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    How long are your chainstays?

    The Pugs has 17.6" CS with the axle pushed all the way into the dropouts. 15.25" for half a wheel seems to leave over 2" of clearance. It looks tighter than that when I compare my existing 29er wheel with 2.4" tire and extrapolate, but it makes sense that Surly designed it to work with the Pugs to provide some additional customers for the 29+ standard besides folks that buy a new bike.
    Unless I am mistaken, tire clearance is to measured along the line going through the axle perpendicular to the seat stay. This distance is smaller than the chainstay.
    And chainstay is to the BB center, and so substract seatstaytuberadius from it too.
    In some cases, the front derailleur cable runs along the seatstaytube tireside (sandman I think).

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

  43. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDTVdevil View Post
    Unless I am mistaken, tire clearance is to measured along the line going through the axle perpendicular to the seat stay. This distance is smaller than the chainstay.
    And chainstay is to the BB center, and so substract seatstaytuberadius from it too.
    In some cases, the front derailleur cable runs along the seatstaytube tireside (sandman I think).

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
    I realized I needed to subtract 2" for the BB shell and CS bridge. I also measured the steastay length on my Pugs and edited my post above.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  44. #394
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    At work right now so I'll check again when I get home, but my ALU Fatback (first generation) is too short for 30.5, as per the CS brace and the derailleur cable. So is my custom FB... as far as the tape mesure shows. I'll have to wait 'till I have a tire/rim in hand to mesure myself. 30.2 or 30.3 might barely fit, but 30.5 just doesn't look feasable for the shorter CS'd bikes. Might fit on the 907... they're quite a bit longer. It's all good! I like my short CS's. And I love my FB's just like they are. If the Krampus works out to be the cat's meow for certain purpose's, just have to go w/ a complete bike... and, like I said, curious to see how this new format evolves... the 50mm rim is spot-on for all around riding w/ a 3" tire (IMO), but a 65mm rim would bring those beads out closer to the width of the tread and increase it's floatation by leaps & bounds (all around dirt handling being the trade-off). I'm guessing we'll also see some ALU and TI offerings from other builders as well... FUN STUFF!

  45. #395
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    Sounds like it will be a bit tight in the most forward position on the Pugs, but should be ample some way aft. When I checked out a Pugs once with 29x3 in mind, I didn't see a problem at all. If there is any, I expect at the back side of the seat tube. Just because it might have cables and such. I am not a Pugspert.
    I think Surly didn't really care much for counter-compatability with the Pugsley. And the Moonlander has too much offset I gather? they'll sell good amounts of tires and rims, one-by-one, to rigid 29" riders. Few will be scared of a 1400g rim+tire combo and that slightly raised front end. Bring it on, they'll say. those who sport 35mm rims, and many do by now, may only have the tire to buy. If it sortof works on skinny rims like that. 3" = 76mm, rim slightly under half. I run 58mm on 24mm rims, bigger difference. It may well work fine.

    I do agree with above comment that 820 or 850 grams seems TOO light for a riding style which a 3.0" would invite to. the knobs are not too girly either. It's not a let's-be-gentle-to-the-precious-trail kind of tire. At least from the looks of it. So yeah, 8xx grams is way lighter than I envisioned myself. I was thinking it would be cool if 1100g was doable, considering how the first Endomorphs came out. For really rough riding, some special liner may be required. Or Surly may have outdone themselves on more ways than we can grasp from pictures alone.

  46. #396
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    I like the idea of a purpose built rig, but my wallet and my garage would really be stoked if I can just wheel swap with the Pugs...

    Even for a bike-a-holic like me the exploding wheel/tire size thing means that I gotta multipurpose some bikes if I want to sample most or all of them.

    I want to see what the fat suspension fork hub standard is going to be before I build up any new fat front wheels though.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  47. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    And the Moonlander has too much offset I gather? they'll sell good amounts of tires and rims, one-by-one, to rigid 29" riders. Few will be scared of a 1400g rim+tire combo and that slightly raised front end. Bring it on, they'll say. those who sport 35mm rims, and many do by now, may only have the tire to buy. If it sortof works on skinny rims like that. 3" = 76mm, rim slightly under half. I run 58mm on 24mm rims, bigger difference. It may well work fine.
    My 29er has a lot of clearance and can't fit a 3" tire on any rim. I doubt there are any non-fat bikes that will take the new 29er+ rubber.

    So the market is fatbiker owners that want a big 29er wheel/tire and Krampus owners. If Surly didn't make the new wheel/tire fit there Pugs and/or the Muk there won't be that many sold.

    OTOH the new rim for sure lets a Pugs owner run normal 29er MTB rubber with reasonable spoke tension.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  48. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I like the idea of a purpose built rig, but my wallet and my garage would really be stoked if I can just wheel swap with the Pugs...

    Even for a bike-a-holic like me the exploding wheel/tire size thing means that I gotta multipurpose some bikes if I want to sample most or all of them.

    I want to see what the fat suspension fork hub standard is going to be before I build up any new fat front wheels though.
    Agreed! I was hoping pretty hard that they would fit, but the math doesn't lie (providing we have the correct math (i.e. 2.5" in the tire world rarely mesures exactly 2.5")). And good point about Ft. suspension! My Maverick is getting pretty "loose"... not sure how many miles it's got left. But it has been great to expireience Ft. susp. on a fat bike. Lot's of times when we're discusing fat bike handling, specificly dirt & trail handling, I forget that I'm riding a Ft. suspended FB and it is much different than rigid!! I've got a brand new Mav 24/7 hub that I intended for a 29er set... but w/ Maverick out of the picture and rumors that fat susp. is being worked on, That project is on hold as well. These new developements come along so quickly these days, it almost pays to wait and see what's next. I've been glad a couple times now that I didn't purchase what I was planning to 'cause something I liked better came out 6 month's later.

  49. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward View Post
    These new developements come along so quickly these days, it almost pays to wait and see what's next. I've been glad a couple times now that I didn't purchase what I was planning to 'cause something I liked better came out 6 month's later.
    +1 - anyone that holds off one year to get into the 29+ game will have some better options for sure. I won't jump till the fat suspension thing becomes clear so that may force me into waiting until 2014 model product year.

    I'm glad I have MTBR.com so I can vicariously enjoy the Krampus 29+ world while I wait....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  50. #400
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    I'll be getting one as soon as they land, its the obvious upgrade to this, which is what I now ride for 95% of my mountainbike rides, that is for those rides when I'm not riding my full fat Mukluk

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