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  1. #151
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    I think wide 650b's that diameter-out at what a "standard" 29er wheel/tire do would be a good niche to fill for Surly. As previously mentioned, 26x4 roll out to what a 29er does, so a 650 that does the same makes a lot of sense. How many snow bike owners are looking at having a winter and summer wheelset. Karate Monkey/29er owners.....want more rubber?

    It looks like a 29x3 to my eyes from the Apple-ish blurrycam spy pics. But how many times can you divide a consumer niche before you really have tens of customers. Growing the actual diameter outside of a 29er wheel is beyond diminishing margin of return even amongst the strange ass customer base that already exists. Don't get me wrong, it would be cool. But there are probably more QBP bean counters than there are goofy dudes at Surly. The Fat650 that could be used in anything 29er and all Fatbikes would simply sell more than a 32er. The extra INCHES tall that fork is make me think it's not a fat 29er.

    That said, please stop suspension "correcting" EVERYTHING!. Especially for frames/forks where suspension forks don't exist, give us descent axle to crown lengths and proper rake.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  2. #152
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    Me and my Jones may be sending a note of thanks to Surly.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    ...But how many times can you divide a consumer niche before you really have tens of customers...
    Both the 650B users in the world are very excited about this development.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  4. #154
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    The Slooth

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Been thinking on this, hoping it's not 650B, but that's just my own thing.

    What I am getting to though is a very well executed world domination strategy. Surly builds a tire, that is just fat enough to barely fit in their mtb frames so it's very useable by any Ogre, KM etc owner.

    Also allows use of fatter than currently available tires for all the other 29ers out there, and introduces all buyers to a pseudo/quasi fat bike experience, which they are sure to want more of, and why yes, we do offer fatter tires and bikes, step right on into my parlor....
    Good one Holmes follow the money, find the answer.
    Still cleaning my Fatback.
    It's a life style.

  5. #155
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    If I remember correctly Jeff jones was toying with these kris holm 29er rims years ago also.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    I think wide 650b's that diameter-out at what a "standard" 29er wheel/tire do would be a good niche to fill for Surly. As previously mentioned, 26x4 roll out to what a 29er does, so a 650 that does the same makes a lot of sense. How many snow bike owners are looking at having a winter and summer wheelset. Karate Monkey/29er owners.....want more rubber?
    .
    I think you have made the best post yet on this topic. Nice.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-reg View Post
    I think wide 650b's that diameter-out at what a "standard" 29er wheel/tire do would be a good niche to fill for Surly. As previously mentioned, 26x4 roll out to what a 29er does, so a 650 that does the same makes a lot of sense. How many snow bike owners are looking at having a winter and summer wheelset. Karate Monkey/29er owners.....want more rubber?

    It looks like a 29x3 to my eyes from the Apple-ish blurrycam spy pics. But how many times can you divide a consumer niche before you really have tens of customers. Growing the actual diameter outside of a 29er wheel is beyond diminishing margin of return even amongst the strange ass customer base that already exists. Don't get me wrong, it would be cool. But there are probably more QBP bean counters than there are goofy dudes at Surly. The Fat650 that could be used in anything 29er and all Fatbikes would simply sell more than a 32er. The extra INCHES tall that fork is make me think it's not a fat 29er.

    That said, please stop suspension "correcting" EVERYTHING!. Especially for frames/forks where suspension forks don't exist, give us descent axle to crown lengths and proper rake.
    Good points, but I'm not convinced that's what Surly's doing here. For one, the hints they're dropping make it sound like a whole new bike vs. a new rim/tire combo that would fit in existing frames. It does look like a suspension corrected front end. Maybe they're hedging their bets because a 3" tire doesn't provide the same suspension effect as a 4" tire. I'm with you - I like the Pugs geometry because it's NOT suspension corrected, and bought my Twenty2 because its geometry is similar to the Pug's.

  8. #158
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    When Surly will make an announcement about this bike? Do we have a date?

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianick View Post
    When Surly will make an announcement about this bike? Do we have a date?
    Somewhere they said "More details next month."

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianick View Post
    When Surly will make an announcement about this bike? Do we have a date?

    Likely it will be at SaddleDrive which I think is July 22nd.

  11. #161
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    Somewhere in my posting history back in the zero's you'll find me bugging all of you about 29x3.0.
    I told you it would be lighter for the same amount of float, roll faster, and have less aero resistance (well, frontal surface area).
    Wider rims need to be heavy just to support themselves, bridge the width. Wide tires are meaty. 29" only makes a tire ~10% heavier than a same-width 26" tire. So in stead of 26x3.7", a 29x3.0 would be a tad taller, have a crazy long contact patch, narrower for stability. We all know how a floaty 29x2.4" tire can already perform little miracles. Up with the 26x2.0 tires I'd wager.
    A downside for me with fat bikes is narrow ditch singletrack, the way the sides catch. And I like a tire to be less quirmy. 29" gives the wheel roll-over, the rim sits a bit closer to the trail, or: the hub stays further away.
    A slightly narrower rim/tire combo could rival the original Endomorph sized tires for float, bit add straighter tracking and better performance at speed. I anticipate it would like more to be ridden at speed, same as 29" like to be ridden fast through deep sand. On slightly more moderate terrain (not the deepest of snow or runniest of sand) I bet a 29x3.0 (31"please) would do the trick mighty well.

    Of course I'll contend that Surly should've done this in the first place, but hey, it's the result that could. I'd buy this bike sooner than a Moonlander and the Moonlander sooner than the Pugs. Very interesting!

    Hey, if it's "only" 29x3.0, might a 35mm lightweight Salsa/Velocity rim already do the trick for milder (racier) conditions? I have some wintertriathlon plans.... (evil grin)

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    If I remember correctly Jeff jones was toying with these kris holm 29er rims years ago also.
    He currently has a 50mm 29er rim in prototype. I was able to ride one during a test drive. I think an mtbr member named Aquaholic has one on his Jones that he has been testing for some time. I'm not sure who/where Jeff has this prototype being made. Jeff left the impression that he was going to bring it to market.

  13. #163
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    ...A slightly narrower rim/tire combo could rival the original Endomorph sized tires for float...
    A 29er with a 3" tyre would still be only 66% of the volume of a 3.8" on a 26" rim, but it would still be a big improvement in float over a 2.35".
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  15. #165
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    I don't what it is, but I already know I want it! Definitely excited to see what it is when they unveil this monster of a bike.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    A 29er with a 3" tyre would still be only 66% of the volume of a 3.8" on a 26" rim, but it would still be a big improvement in float over a 2.35".
    Volume means a lot to the track pump. The trail only cares about the part it touches.
    I hear you though, and do anticipate a big and skinny (in fat terms) version will favor higher speed riding. More rolling, less crawling. Both as riding style (engine power) and terrain.

    In gas theory, only tire pressure and axle load determines the surface area with the trail. In reality, the longer and narrower contact patch of a bigger rim and narrower tire do bring great stability and traction. More rolling, less plowing.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger View Post
    I love a good game of bucket ram

  18. #168
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    the front end on that bike looks insane. go Surly.

  19. #169
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    Was reading the Walmart thread..any chance this could go to a 32 inch tire? Those tires are awfully big from the picture, look almost bigger than a 29er unless the guy riding is short. They did said it was something that hadn't been done before.

    Regardless, it looks pretty sweet..I want it.

  20. #170
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    Wonder if 45NRTH's forthcoming "special" tire may be compatible?
    38 54' -77 15

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodi2259 View Post
    Thanks google



    OKAY, what size (mm) brake rotor would that be on the front?

    I got from very crude measurements :
    rotor: 55*33 pix diagonally
    rim : 188*110 pix (~3.4 * rotor)
    tire : 228*133 pix (~4.1 * rotor)

    If the rotor is
    180mm, the outer rim is ~600-615mm (635mm being 700c/29" standard)
    185mm: rim is 616-632mm
    160mm: rim is 533-547mm (26" being 571mm)

    Presuming 700c and a 185mm rotor,
    The tire measures roughly (228/188) * 25 = 30.3".

    Seems to me the tire is indeed wider than tall, due to a relatively wide rim. The tire might well be 3" on the outside, the height (2.65" if my pixel deducing has any merit) doesn't look too far off.

    For such a wide tire, is it not interesting that the knobs stick way out to the sides? Perhaps the casing doesn't even make 3.0" across...
    Last edited by Cloxxki; 06-22-2012 at 05:09 AM.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  22. #172
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    Whatever, looks awesome and I want one.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
    ...If the rotor is
    180mm, the outer rim is ~600-615mm (635mm being 700c/29" standard)...
    Nifty bit of calculation there. Looks like big wheels then.

    BTW 635 is the old British 28" rim size and 622 is the 700c/29er
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 5736' Highlands, Scotland

  24. #174
    That Unicycle Guy
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    Looks pretty similar to my 29x3.2" on a 50mm rim. If I could replace my sewn together frankentire with a factory built 29x3 I will be quite happy.

    surly

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericpulvermacher View Post
    Looks pretty similar to my 29x3.2" on a 50mm rim. If I could replace my sewn together frankentire with a factory built 29x3 I will be quite happy.

    surly


    Frankentire?

    Sewn together?

    This sounds interesting. Do you have a picture of said beast?

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