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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    There is a reason that I have not posted any updates. Actually very good customer service but I will let Peter comment if he wants to.

    But needless to say I am happy with what Peter created and the proactive customer service that he has.
    No need to be so defensive.

    Why post you've received your frame and then go silent ?

    You have ignored the many requests for positive info to assist / encourage people in their possible future purchase. As far as I can see those requests have been from people eager/keen/interested to buy this product.

    Can you not see by not replying to these requests, and by the gaurded replies you have posted only serve to put doubts in peoples minds about the legitimacy and integrity of the product ? Myself included.

    FYI

    I was the one that started this thread.

    I was initially very excited to hear of the frames development. But although I understand why there have been delays with production, it inevitably it drove me to buy from elsewhere and go full rigid too (can't get much more different I suppose LOL).

    And for the record I have no problem with Peter or his company or this particular frame other than my own frustration due to lack of patience (but that's my problem entirely)

    Perhaps there is a valid reason you have responded in the way you have. I also respect that Peter may have requested that any issues you have or may not have with any aspect of the entire buying/building process upto this point not be disclosed in a public forum. But I think you could have handled it in a more positive diplomatic way IMHO.

    Good luck to you and anyone else that has purchased one of these frames. I would like to purchase one myself once I have finished my current project and boosted my coffers slightly.


    Happy new year.



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  2. #202
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    Sorry if I came across defensive that was not the intention. But the posts that imply that those of us that bought frames are suckers hit a nerve, thus the very curt response. But there are 25 of us that are taking a chance on these frames and we should be cut some slack for being the test cases for this, instead of getting grief for taking a chance that others could benefit from. Always easier to be the second wave of people that adopt than the first ones.

    The fact is the frames have been built but there are reasons (Peter can comment if he wants) why you are not seeing builds. I am looking forward to building my frame and am getting the parts together to do so. So in the future you will see builds of the these frames just not as soon as everyone (including me) would like to see them.

    Still cheaper than getting a Bucksaw frame and building one out for those that think that is not the case. I figure I can build this up to a fully for around $2200, with quality parts, which is still cheaper than just trying to find just a bucksaw frame. Yes many of those parts will be 2nd hand but I am not going cheap on what I get.

  3. #203
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    Used aluminum Bucksaw on eBay right now for $2700 buy-it-now. Looks good. I am just not sure I want a fat bike limited to 4.0 inch tires.

  4. #204
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    Might be cheaper than buying a Bucksaw frame but if you've had it 3+ weeks and still can't ride it your savings are worthless as far as I'm concerned.

    Obviously there are problems with the frame no one wants to talk about. I hope you get them sorted out.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Used aluminum Bucksaw on eBay right now for $2700 buy-it-now. Looks good. I am just not sure I want a fat bike limited to 4.0 inch tires.
    You haven't done your research. Lots of people running larger than 4.0 on Bucksaws. A D5 fits pretty easily.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    Might be cheaper than buying a Bucksaw frame but if you've had it 3+ weeks and still can't ride it your savings are worthless as far as I'm concerned.

    Obviously there are problems with the frame no one wants to talk about. I hope you get them sorted out.


    You haven't done your research. Lots of people running larger than 4.0 on Bucksaws. A D5 fits pretty easily.
    I expect some growing pains with new products and yes in this case I am taking an expensive gamble. For me this was not a buy, build then ride right away anyway so a few weeks or months of delay is OK with me.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    Ah ha. Thank you. I love how the bluto is backwards in the last picture.
    That's so the thing will balance upright on its own for the photo. I do that when taking frameset photos sometimes.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Used aluminum Bucksaw on eBay right now for $2700 buy-it-now. Looks good. I am just not sure I want a fat bike limited to 4.0 inch tires.
    Can't find it on Ebay, was it blue or gold?

  8. #208
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    You haven't done your research. Lots of people running larger than 4.0 on Bucksaws. A D5 fits pretty easily.
    Just note that the D5 is not a 5 inch tire. It is 4.3 inches on 80mm rims, and about 4.4 on 100mm. But true, 4.3 is larger than 4.0.

  10. #210
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    I do believe I touched a nerve!

    Name:  Screenshot 2016-01-02 13.19.27.png
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    To clarify my stance here: I wholeheartedly welcome more affordable or innovative bikes from any manufacturer. Judging by the pictures posted here and elsewhere, this bike however looks all but identical to the Bucksaw Carbon. If this isn't a licensed copy, or unless I'm misinterpreting the few pictures available, this does nothing but stifle innovation by undercutting the people who designed and developed the bike in the first place. This is neither fair nor good for the development of our sport.

    I'll be happy to rescind my criticism if the actual bike proves me wrong.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Why don't you guys invest some money in the distribution of illegal soft drugs? Or do some insurance fraud? Then you could buy a original Salsa Bucksaw Carbon frame, and not a blatant knockoff. Should be in the same moral ballpark, and you end up with the genuine article! Win-win!

    Jep, I state You are an a##hole by writing this; Why don't you guys invest some money in the distribution of illegal soft drugs? .... why ?? I Work for Global American Company... and quess what, they source from China, should YOU now then drop useing all Bikes etc.. that are made there.

    I own Salsa bike, I love it. Im also on the same side in some statements that You make, and I would like to get new carbon BS also, but its 2800 USD for frame.. What... And You think im eating their bread. Im not ready to invest that much for a frame that I dont even know yet, if fullsus. is the thing I need... And yes, no Salsa test run events here.

    ... If You are so concern about their margin, I think You should voluntary to some Taiwan factory that makes frames for them...

    And for my moral side, It is as high as +ten years of working in a global BIG company can be.

    I think You now need to open Your own topic for this moral side, as You can read this is for Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike... Not; Im the inner voice of -80s company policy.

    ...and have I pressed something wrong, as my dot is green in Your pic... I ment it to be bad, poor, stupid, etc...
    Last edited by Jukahia; 01-02-2016 at 11:00 AM.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    I do believe I touched a nerve!

    Name:  Screenshot 2016-01-02 13.19.27.png
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    To clarify my stance here: I wholeheartedly welcome more affordable or innovative bikes from any manufacturer. Judging by the pictures posted here and elsewhere, this bike however looks all but identical to the Bucksaw Carbon. If this isn't a licensed copy, or unless I'm misinterpreting the few pictures available, this does nothing but stifle innovation by undercutting the people who designed and developed the bike in the first place. This is neither fair nor good for the development of our sport.

    I'll be happy to rescind my criticism if the actual bike proves me wrong.
    Maybe if you post your opinions in a less offensive way you wont get negative feedback? There was really no need to say that people who purchase this frame are on the same moral level of doing something that is a crime.
    2006 Rush Hour SS
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  13. #213
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    "stifle innovation" ... we're amidst a great philosopher here ... soothsayer even ... wow.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmes View Post
    "stifle innovation" ... we're amidst a great philosopher here ... soothsayer even ... wow.
    Well, if this is truly a unlicensed copy, the only way it won't stifle innovation is if it doesn't sell very well. Who in their right mind would spend years developing any product if everyone runs off and buys the half priced copy?

    You're right in that it isn't illegal buying stuff like this, but I find it pretty dodgy. I'm not alone if the net positive rep received for this discussion is anything to go by.

    But enjoy your Enchilada Chainsaws. It appears to be a proven design, and is provably a great bike.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Well, if this is truly a unlicensed copy, the only way it won't stifle innovation is if it doesn't sell very well. Who in their right mind would spend years developing any product if everyone runs off and buys the half priced copy?.
    I think It would be interesting if you went down this twice-mentioned rabbit hole of stifling innovation. Are you an inventor yourself? Please explain if you care to.

    It is a bit of a warning sign when you are posting about 'everyone runs off and does ____'. That's dangerous talk that helps one convince themselves that 'everyone' is for or against them. This thread is hardly representative of everyone or even .00001%, or even .01% of bucksaw buyers, what is driving your paranoia here?

  16. #216
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    I think people that can afford a Bucksaw will buy one over some copycat.
    Those who can't were never potential Bucksaw customers and this won't run Salsa out of business.
    You won't see car companies, Nike, Rolex, North Face, Gucci, or others stop making new products because luxury items always have customers that want the real thing.
    A Bucksaw is a luxury item and doesn't look to have any patents on it.
    It's just a fat suspension bike, nothing innovative.
    As long as people know they aren't getting a Bucksaw I see nothing wrong.
    No one gives a hoot about how Framed, Heller, Java, or KHS have identical Chinese variants.

    Personally I have never bought a vehicle with an unproven history.
    I can see why saving 50% is appealing but taking the subsequent risk of questionable engineering, finishing, and support would steer me to saving longer for a Bucksaw or buying a lower grade bike from someone I trust.

    It's only when a customer unknowingly buys a fake at full price I feel angry, but that is also the buyer's ignorance at fault.
    I bought a fake TAG F1 watch in Times Square when I was 20 years old.
    It stopped working in 2 weeks from water damage.
    It was a $100 mistake but a cheap lesson in becoming a better buyer.

    There are other items that need our attention like fake rice, medicine, and baby formula. These are staples of life.
    If you don't like a Chinese knock off of a luxury item, then don't buy one.
    Like it or not, no amount of words on a forum is going to change copycat products from existing.
    What luxury brand has gone out of business from copycats?
    There have been many blatant lookalike counterfeit bikes in the past; particularly high end road bikes but I still see Cannondale, Pinarello, Look, etc. still in business.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilson View Post
    It is a bit of a warning sign when you are posting about 'everyone runs off and does ____'. That's dangerous talk that helps one convince themselves that 'everyone' is for or against them. This thread is hardly representative of everyone or even .00001%, or even .01% of bucksaw buyers, what is driving your paranoia here?

    Wait. How is this a controversial point?

    1. Business make products for profit.
    2. Designing and developing products is an investment in future profits.
    3. If n% of your potential customers runs off and buys an unlicensed copy instead of your product, this will cost you m% of your profits (where m has a direct relationship with n).
    4. These losses make the investment in developing new products less profitable and thus less tempting.
    5. As n and m grows, it will eventually reach a point where the business has the choice between reducing the investment or developing products at a net loss.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmes View Post
    "stifle innovation" ... we're amidst a great philosopher here ... soothsayer even ... wow.
    I have had a hard time to think about a name for the frame and I think I might have found a winner. Stifle innovation is SO big word, I might go with shorter version; stiffy

    At least this is the first time I discover that LCC- part's has done it for someone, but not a first time that Fat Bike has...

    And please let's wrap this tortilla to new topic.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukahia View Post
    I have had a hard time to think about a name for the frame and I think I might have found a winner. Stifle innovation is SO big word, I might go with shorter version; stiffy

    .
    It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttakata73 View Post
    I think people that can afford a Bucksaw will buy one over some copycat.
    Those who can't were never potential Bucksaw customers and this won't run Salsa out of business.
    I agree with this. It seems unlikely that people who can afford the Bucksaw will cross shop both a Bucksaw and a generic copy.

    Regardless, there are lots of intellectual property laws out there to ensure that there is an incentive to innovate. If aspects of a frame design are truly innovative, these aspects should be patented. If a patent isn't possible, buyers should consider if the design is truly innovative. If generic frame makers copy the frame and sell it regardless of patent or copyright, at least they'll be locked out of legitimate distribution channels in the US. All businesses face these trade offs.

  21. #221
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    As the guy who owns the URL styphcycles.com, I'm a little (very little) miffed. The web site actually deals with the build-up of various Chinese blank frames I've put together for my friends. The name comes from an exchange between one of my buds and someone working for one of the Chinese sellers, I think "she" went by Anna. In any case, upon completing his order for one of the first Chinese carbon fully 29ers, she wrote "Enjoy your stiffness"

    And styphcycles was born. I urge you all to "Enjoy the styphness!"

  22. #222
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    Ordered on January 6 (frame and 29+ rims); Peter says that probably rims can be shipped next week, while frame won't be shipped till the end of chinese new year holidays.
    Anyone else has some updates about delivery times?

  23. #223
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    it's my first post I know...I've lurked for over a decade.

    I was a part of the first 25, I ordered well in advance of winter 2015. It's not the first time I've dealt xmcarbonspeed, and before that xmiplay. Of all the times i've bought rims from them they've been prompt with timelines and shipping.

    I'm surprised the guy above me is going to get his frame before i will. My frame is not slated to leave until mid march. I've had my wheels for a while now. I've got a full xt 11sp drivetrain waiting to go on. A bluto and a monarch and nexl sl fat cranks too. Believe it or not, I even have a race face dropper waiting.

    Lets get that through our heads. Mid March. I was a bought into the first run. I had a hard tail Apollo Stout Fat bike that I sold to fund this bike. I haven't had a fatbike all winter, I've been riding shop demos. I hate riding my shop demos.

    Mid March - From october to december to "we hope before chinese new years" to mid march.

    I appreciate WHY it's taking so long, something that I suspect people who weren't in the first 25 won't know about, still, i didn't expect to be put in line AFTER someone who came months after.


    Mid march. after the snows gone.

  24. #224
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    I posted a link to one that was supposedly ready to go. Did anyone here buy it?

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    the bucksaw? the aluminum bucksaw? the USED aluminum bucksaw?


    edit: i see you've previously linked to a cs-001 frame....i take that back!

  26. #226
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    Yes. $880 or best offer for a CS-001. As far as I can tell, they had it new and ready to ship. If I intended to buy this frame, I would have bought that one since it was ready to ship with no line, and also a lower price.

    But who knows, maybe if one tried to buy it, it was someone representing the factory and you would just get a slot in the queue rather than an immediate shipment.



  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekx View Post
    it's my first post I know...I've lurked for over a decade.

    I was a part of the first 25, I ordered well in advance of winter 2015. It's not the first time I've dealt xmcarbonspeed, and before that xmiplay. Of all the times i've bought rims from them they've been prompt with timelines and shipping.

    I'm surprised the guy above me is going to get his frame before i will. My frame is not slated to leave until mid march. I've had my wheels for a while now. I've got a full xt 11sp drivetrain waiting to go on. A bluto and a monarch and nexl sl fat cranks too. Believe it or not, I even have a race face dropper waiting.

    Lets get that through our heads. Mid March. I was a bought into the first run. I had a hard tail Apollo Stout Fat bike that I sold to fund this bike. I haven't had a fatbike all winter, I've been riding shop demos. I hate riding my shop demos.

    Mid March - From october to december to "we hope before chinese new years" to mid march.

    I appreciate WHY it's taking so long, something that I suspect people who weren't in the first 25 won't know about, still, i didn't expect to be put in line AFTER someone who came months after.


    Mid march. after the snows gone.
    I think I was misunderstood.
    The delivery date will not be before the Chinese New Year, but I have not a firm date.
    While the rims should be shipped shortly (Peter wrote an email to me yesterday).
    I am very concerned by your post. I thought I could start building by mid-March, but I do not think it will be possible.
    Certainly, if the frame will not be sent by the end of February , I will ask a refund.
    Anyone else with some feedback?

  28. #228
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    Peter is the best one to answer the reason for the delay.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    Peter is the best one to answer the reason for the delay.
    Why he don't answer?
    Is he your friend?

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckycncc View Post
    Why he don't answer?
    Is he your friend?
    I have no idea why Peter is not commenting.

    I am as much as a friend of Peter's as anyone that has paid someone a few hundred dollars for something is.

  31. #231
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    I have been following this closely as I would be willing to take the leap if the timing was right. I would love to have a carbon full squish fatty, looks like unless things change soon a carbon Bucksaw may be my only option.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by RENCRN8 View Post
    I have been following this closely as I would be willing to take the leap if the timing was right. I would love to have a carbon full squish fatty, looks like unless things change soon a carbon Bucksaw may be my only option.
    In my opinion if you have the cash to afford a carbon bucksaw I would go that route. This frame is more for the DIY person that is willing to take chance based on cost.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    In my opinion if you have the cash to afford a carbon bucksaw I would go that route. This frame is more for the DIY person that is willing to take chance based on cost.
    I can appreciate that. Just because I can afford it doesn't mean that is the route that I prefer to go. I am about as DIY as they come and enjoy the hunt and build as much as I do the end outcome and riding. Needless to say, just because of logistics, I may be limited to finding a CBS frame to start my project. Thanks

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    Peter is the best one to answer the reason for the delay.
    Do you know the reason of delay?

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckycncc View Post
    Do you know the reason of delay?
    Yes I know of a reason and no I will not post why.
    As I mentioned in earlier posts the details are Peter's to give if he wants. But the delay is making a better product.
    Last edited by KenPsz; 01-26-2016 at 12:02 PM.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    Yes I know of a reason and no I will not post why.
    As I mentioned in earlier posts the details are Peter's to give if he wants. But the delay is making a better product.
    I don't understand...
    If it's for a good reason (better product), why Peter and you don't answer?

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckycncc View Post
    I don't understand...
    If it's for a good reason (better product), why Peter and you don't answer?
    Not my place to answer, I don't work for Peter I am just a customer. Plus I don't feel like being the target of the grief that could potentially follow, this forum is has proven if there are any negatives people jump on those and that becomes the focus. Me I am very happy (so far) with Peter's customer service with this frame, remember I had one in hand.

    Now why Peter is not answering I don't know, send him an e-mail or a PM and he might let you know. Then you can tell the rest of us why he is not posting in this thread.
    Last edited by KenPsz; 01-26-2016 at 02:03 PM.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    Not my place to answer, I don't work for Peter I am just a customer. Plus I don't feel like being the target of the grief that could potentially follow, this forum is has proven if there are any negatives people jump on those and that becomes the focus. Me I am very happy (so far) with Peter's customer service with this frame, remember I had one in hand.

    I do not want to mislead into thinking i'm unhappy with the customer service. I am not. It is exemplary. You will not find better customer service from any bike company - I would know, I deal with some big ones everyday.

    What frustrates me is the timing of delivery. I want to ride my fatbike in snow. I bought it thinking i'd have it for the beginning of the season, now it doesn't look like i'll have it until the end. At the time it was the only reasonably priced full suspension option - carbon or otherwise. If the season passes before the frame arrives, I may as well have waited to see what comes in 2016-17.

    I will patiently wait for my frame to arrive, knowing that the people @xmcarbonspeed are doing their best to make it happen. That being said, it's been a long wait (for legitimate reasons), and this experience has left me sour being on the cutting edge of Chinese tech. Next time around I'll probably let someone else be a part of tbe beta test. I will continue to buy rims from xmcarbonspeed, because I believe without a doubt that they stand behind their product 100%.

  39. #239
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    Making this kind of thing is really complex. There are any number of things that can go wrong.

    It is people with the *most* money that should be buying this. People who can afford to lose it.

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    This is a good way to look at it as well...

  41. #241
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    I want it to be good. I want one if you all like it.

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    If you want the newest you pay for it, and you buy it from the big dogs. If you want the newest but want to try to save somehow, today you have the Chinese option for frames (this doesn't exist in most industries, not for cutting edge tech), but there's a risk that goes with it. If you want to forego that risk, you need to buy from the main OEM's. It's unfortunate but just how it is. I agree the Chinese bike customer service is phenominal! But, yep there could be delays, could be missing parts, carbon failures, etc....and with that, maybe not even more so than we'd fine with the big manufacturers, but it's nonetheless noticeable. I just built a 29+ hard tail with a Chinese carbon and am satisfied and am now watching this thread on full suspension carbon fat bikes. Keep in mind there are maybe 2 29+ full suspension bikes on the market and what, 1 full suspension fat bike? It'll still be fun in the summer

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

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    Rims shipped today. I've ask some info about frame delivery date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rekx View Post
    I do not want to mislead into thinking i'm unhappy with the customer service. I am not. It is exemplary. You will not find better customer service from any bike company - I would know, I deal with some big ones everyday.

    What frustrates me is the timing of delivery. I want to ride my fatbike in snow. I bought it thinking i'd have it for the beginning of the season, now it doesn't look like i'll have it until the end. At the time it was the only reasonably priced full suspension option - carbon or otherwise. If the season passes before the frame arrives, I may as well have waited to see what comes in 2016-17.

    I will patiently wait for my frame to arrive, knowing that the people @xmcarbonspeed are doing their best to make it happen. That being said, it's been a long wait (for legitimate reasons), and this experience has left me sour being on the cutting edge of Chinese tech. Next time around I'll probably let someone else be a part of tbe beta test. I will continue to buy rims from xmcarbonspeed, because I believe without a doubt that they stand behind their product 100%.
    I completely agree with not being a bleeding edge adopter again.

  45. #245
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    Middle of march, snow's all gone, still don't have my bike


    I just about don't care anymore and am ready to blow this all out of the water with those priveledged images that were sent to us....

  46. #246
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    I have heard from Peter concerning my frame and I should see it back in my hands late March or early April.

    The frames do exist and Peter is making sure of two things before they are sent back to those of us that already received delivery and other ones are sent out.

    1) The frames are up to the task of AM type of riding. The first batch was not and that is being corrected. Nothing like a downhill rider being the tester for the frame.

    2) Peter is making sure that quality control is up to standards since more control was needed than a normal MTB frame.

    So if anything Peter is guilty of being overly optimistic about how quickly this frame could be created and in the hands of customers. So what if he is delayed 6 months I rather have a quality product than a rushed one where I am SOL if it breaks.

  47. #247
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    So F'n what. At the end of the day I still don't have a bike and the snows gone. Tried getting a refund too, but instead that request was ignored.

    To put things into perspective:

    The Devinci Hendrixes I ordered in for this season arrived at the shop two days ago. I should have given up on this BS months ago and just put an extra Hendrix on order for myself. End cost to ME would have been the same, if not slightly better for the Hendrix after USD conversion has been considered.

    When the option was first given to me during bike booking season last year, I was sure I'd have this bike by then. HAH. Egg on my face this time.

    It's not like I had a chance to ride this bike in the snow anyway. I'm glad they took my hard earned dollars for the last 5-6 months with f all to show for it.

    Who is this downhill rider testing the bike? He's not someone I've ever heard of, nor is the company who's buying these frames big enough to have a big name rider. He's Joe Shmoe as far as i'm concerned. Don't they do stress analysis and all that, so that they wont be shearing and cracking tubes? I mean it's not a guessing game, we're in 2016. We have the technology to know how materials react, what shapes are strong and how stress risers build. Shouldn't they have a good idea that the frames aren't going to fail before they put them under (at least 3 different) people ?

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekx View Post
    So F'n what. At the end of the day I still don't have a bike and the snows gone. Tried getting a refund too, but instead that request was ignored.

    To put things into perspective:

    The Devinci Hendrixes I ordered in for this season arrived at the shop two days ago. I should have given up on this BS months ago and just put an extra Hendrix on order for myself. End cost to ME would have been the same, if not slightly better for the Hendrix after USD conversion has been considered.

    When the option was first given to me during bike booking season last year, I was sure I'd have this bike by then. HAH. Egg on my face this time.

    It's not like I had a chance to ride this bike in the snow anyway. I'm glad they took my hard earned dollars for the last 5-6 months with f all to show for it.

    Who is this downhill rider testing the bike? He's not someone I've ever heard of, nor is the company who's buying these frames big enough to have a big name rider. He's Joe Shmoe as far as i'm concerned. Don't they do stress analysis and all that, so that they wont be shearing and cracking tubes? I mean it's not a guessing game, we're in 2016. We have the technology to know how materials react, what shapes are strong and how stress risers build. Shouldn't they have a good idea that the frames aren't going to fail before they put them under (at least 3 different) people ?
    You're so smart why are you not building frames? You seem to have all the answers.
    We can really criticize only to a point since we don't have the guts to start a business doing this stuff.

    Look you bought into a newly designed and manufactured frame like I did, that is a risk from the go. There is a reason most people NEVER buy the first version of anything. I'm used to this type of thing in the software development but this is the first time I have put my own cash on the line.

    Now the fact Peter will not giving you a refund that sucks and frankly I have been worried about that myself from the get go. But I took the risk (just like you) and if I got screwed I figured that was shame on me for taking this risk to start with.

    Plus to be pissed off is going to get you what? Not going to get you your frame any faster and looks like your not going to get your cash back sooner either.

  49. #249
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    People complaining their vaporware from across the pond isn't going as well as they had hoped, this is awesome entertainment. Although I am sorry for your trouble and I hope everything works out, and everyone either gets their product, or their money back as I know how frustrating it can be to be expecting a product for your hobby you have so much passion for, only to be left with a lighter wallet and the frustration that goes with no product. I do hope it works out for you guys, and quickly.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by litespeedaddict View Post
    People complaining their vaporware from across the pond isn't going as well as they had hoped, this is awesome entertainment. Although I am sorry for your trouble and I hope everything works out, and everyone either gets their product, or their money back as I know how frustrating it can be to be expecting a product for your hobby you have so much passion for, only to be left with a lighter wallet and the frustration that goes with no product. I do hope it works out for you guys, and quickly.
    Yes. I feel like there's still threads about people selling their fatty in November because their new one should be here by the time snow falls. Have we learned nothing?!?!

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