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  1. #101
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    Wow, looks great.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  2. #102
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    Hi Peter

    Can you publish final full geometries for the frames please now you have production samples ?

    Also what is the weight of the frame in the pictures too please ?


    Thanks


    P.S. And pricing woyld be great too.



    Fat Biker

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Hi Peter

    Can you publish final full geometries for the frames please now you have production samples ?

    Also what is the weight of the frame in the pictures too please ?


    Thanks


    P.S. And pricing woyld be great too.



    Fat Biker
    No final fully geometries yet, we still have to improve some details, sizes 19'' and 21'' geometries will be drawn after we finish the improving and completely confirmed.

    The weight of the 17'' sample frame is 2300g.

    Sorry, I hope you could understand why I don't want publish pricing here.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterXu View Post
    No final fully geometries yet, we still have to improve some details, sizes 19'' and 21'' geometries will be drawn after we finish the improving and completely confirmed.

    The weight of the 17'' sample frame is 2300g.

    Sorry, I hope you could understand why I don't want publish pricing here.
    Thanks Peter no worries.

    Do you think it would be possible to run an "E-type" front derailleur, the type that attatches via the BB cups on BSA style threaded BB's ? I realise cable routing would need to be worked out (External stick on guides perhaps ?) but it would be great if we could run 2x and not limited to 1x.

    I will shoot you an email r.e. pricing if that's ok ?

    The weight seems good too.

    I'm guessing it runs a 165mm i2i shock similar to a lot of the Chinese carbon full suspension 29er's yes ?


    Fat Biker

  5. #105
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    So what's the max tire diameter on this? Will 29+ fit?
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  6. #106
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    Licensing the rear suspension design from anyone?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Thanks Peter no worries.

    Do you think it would be possible to run an "E-type" front derailleur, the type that attatches via the BB cups on BSA style threaded BB's ? I realise cable routing would need to be worked out (External stick on guides perhaps ?) but it would be great if we could run 2x and not limited to 1x.

    I will shoot you an email r.e. pricing if that's ok ?

    The weight seems good too.

    I'm guessing it runs a 165mm i2i shock similar to a lot of the Chinese carbon full suspension 29er's yes ?


    Fat Biker
    Sorry, we just make it for 1x. And 200mm shock, not 165mm

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    So what's the max tire diameter on this? Will 29+ fit?
    26er x 4.0'' , yes, 29+ will fit

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterXu View Post
    26er x 4.0'' , yes, 29+ will fit
    Great news. Will ALL current 29+ wheels fit ?
    What is the maximum diameter of tyre that could fit please ?

    Thanks Peter


    Fat Biker

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Great news. Will ALL current 29+ wheels fit ?
    What is the maximum diameter of tyre that could fit please ?

    Thanks Peter


    Fat Biker
    27.5+ 3.5''
    29+ 3.0''

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterXu View Post
    27.5+ 3.5''
    29+ 3.0''
    Any restrictions on 29+ rim width Peter ?
    Could I run 29" x 42mm carbon rims and a 3" tyre or is the max something like 29" x 35/36 mm rim with a 3" tyre ?


    Any pictures of a fully built up prototype you wish to share yet please ?
    Or any pics just as a rolling chassis with either 26" x 4" or 29+ x 3" would be great .


    Thanks once again Peter



    Fat Biker

  12. #112
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    Edited
    Last edited by PeterXu; 09-17-2015 at 02:25 AM.

  13. #113
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    Looks pretty sweet. I can't wait to see someone build one up for a ride report.

  14. #114
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    Someone has to make a 197mm rear end frame like this. That's all I have been waiting for.

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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    Someone has to make a 197mm rear end frame like this. That's all I have been waiting for.
    You'd essentially be asking for a full suspension fat bike that would fit 5" tire, as that's the only reason for such wide hubs. If Salsa or Borealis aren't making such a bike, why would an overseas company risk so much on a design like that? You're talking niche market of niche markets...
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    You'd essentially be asking for a full suspension fat bike that would fit 5" tire, as that's the only reason for such wide hubs. If Salsa or Borealis aren't making such a bike, why would an overseas company risk so much on a design like that? You're talking niche market of niche markets...
    Maybe but they used to say that about fat bikes and then about non offset rear wheel fatbikes and then about 197 rear fatbikes. Just because salsa or Borealis don't make it, that doesn't mean squat.

    Additionally a 197 rear also makes it more likely to fit 29+ and 27.5+ wheels. That's one huge reason to go this route.

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  17. #117
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    Ride report is right! I would say just take a look at anyone with a carbon Bucksaw running 4 inch tires and theres your ride report. Its no Salsa for sure, but I would dare to say it could be on par with one with the right build, especially the rear shock!
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    ....Additionally a 197 rear also makes it more likely to fit 29+ and 27.5+ wheels...
    A Bucksaw frame, which this is obviously a copy, fits 27.5+ wheels easily. Also easily fits D5s with room to spare. Unless you NEED 4.8" tires, there's no compelling reason for the 197 mm rear end.

    It does seem to be a blatant ripoff of a licensed (patented?) suspension design. I guess it doesn't matter because it's made in China?

  19. #119
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    197 and 5" tire clearance would make it have a long-ass wheel base. Just sayin'

    Also, for people calling this a blatant rip off of the Bucksaw, there are some very obvious changes. I wouldn't go as far and say it will handle like the Bucksaw. There are some different pivot angles and the leverage ratio is probably a tad different. Which have fun tuning your shock to the frame. When you buy a Bucksaw, the shock is custom tuned to the frame. All FS bikes from the big name companies come with custom tunes on their shocks

  20. #120
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    The frame shock question is why I am going to go coil over if possible since the ability to tune is much greater than air shocks.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    The frame shock question is why I am going to go coil over if possible since the ability to tune is much greater than air shocks.
    Right on.


    PeterXu, what tune shock would you recommend for this frame?

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Urkel View Post
    197 and 5" tire clearance would make it have a long-ass wheel base. Just sayin'

    Also, for people calling this a blatant rip off of the Bucksaw, there are some very obvious changes. I wouldn't go as far and say it will handle like the Bucksaw. There are some different pivot angles and the leverage ratio is probably a tad different. Which have fun tuning your shock to the frame. When you buy a Bucksaw, the shock is custom tuned to the frame. All FS bikes from the big name companies come with custom tunes on their shocks
    True and true. No need for 197 spacing and 5 inch tires on this type of bike. 425-445 mm chainstays seem to be the sweet spot for more aggessive fat bikes and plus size wheel conversions. Yes, it is void of a custom tuned shock, but this is also just a bare frame costing 1/3 of the big boys custom carbon frames/shock! I would be willing to bet with the right shock setup it will still rip with the best of them...just my 2 cents.
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  23. #123
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    Sizes 19'' and 21'' frame molds are on production now, anyone wants the geometries, please feel free to contact me : petercycles@foxmail.com

  24. #124
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    What stroke length does this frame require of the rear shock?

  25. #125
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    200x51

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    Thanks for the clarification on shock size.

    As far as cranksets go I found the RaceFace Turbine Cinch (RF169) and their BBBSA10030B6 bottom bracket which I believe are a perfect fit:

    Race Face

    What other crank/bb sets will fit?

    Thanks!

  27. #127
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    SRAM X1 1000 Fatbike Crank 1x11 GXP, SRAM GX 1400 Fatbike Crank Black 1x11 GXP, SRAM GX 1000 Fatbike Crank Black 1x11 GXP, just to name few cheapest.. Also with Sram cranks one need Sram GXP BB, SRAM Bottom Bracket Truvativ GXP XR | BSA Fatbike

    All that are 170-177 rear, with 100mm bb

    All these have Q-factor above 200 (width of cranks and chain line 66+ )

    Only some Sram xx1 cranks, have Q-factor 168 and that can be tight.. there is also 201 model...

    Also;
    RACE FACE Fatbike Crankarms Turbine CINCH for 170 | 177 mm Hub + RACE FACE Bottom Bracket BSA for CINCH System Fatbike is Ok. There is also carbon model, etc.

    One nice is; BOR Fatbike Crank FB557 Basic 170/177 SmartSpindleSystem

    Rear shock is 200x51mm, 120mm travel, 8mm bolts, down is 40mm wide and upper 22,4 wide spacers.

    Headset is 42mm upper and 52mm down, IS (integrated)

  28. #128
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    Thanks for the helpful post, Jukahia...you read my mind including all the extra information. I switched to the SRAM GX-1400 which seems like the perfect price/performance crankset.

    Here's the shock and bushings I ordered:

    Rock Shox Monarch RT3 Mid Tune | Air Shocks Shop
    Rock Shox Bushing for Monarch/Vivid 22.0 x 8mm | Rear Shocks Accessories - Rock Shox Shop
    Rock Shox Bushing Set for Monarch/Vivid 40.0 x 8mm | Rear Shocks Accessories - Rock Shox Shop

    I hope those are the right busing sets -- it's the washers or whatever you call them that I'm worried about -- and that mid tune shock works out for this frame's leverage rate.

    Peter and I'm guessing his workmate Jukahia ... you're great to work with ... thanks!

  29. #129
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    Well i`m just a biker from Finland... Yes, I have also ordered CS-001 and sent many e mails between Peter. I have drawings of the frame and info/ some knowledge what partīs to use with 170-177 rear.. as I have also build salsa beargrease2 2015 from frame up...
    If You are from Europe I highly recomment to use R2bike...

  30. #130
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    Cool...I thought you were the engineer but I didn't think your name sounded very Chinese...never heard of R2bike, thanks for the reference.

    So those look like the right rear shock bushings?

    Cheers...thanks again!

  31. #131
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    Yep, But You need 2x 1mm (edit it is not 1mm its 0,1mm!) spacer/washer for upper.. It is 22,4mm what You need...you are Fine with 22,2. But I would not worry about this yet, will se what frame looks like, also there can always be some variations between frames. One may need 1-2mm spacers depending tolerances.. And your shock etc. it is a good choise.
    ....Iīm an Engineer, by mechanical & design but I work with bigger parties.
    Last edited by Jukahia; 11-08-2015 at 12:57 AM.

  32. #132
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    Last edited by bcriverjunky; 11-10-2015 at 02:33 PM.
    Marin Bobcat Trail 29er - Trek Farley 8

  33. #133
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    What do you guys think would be the best(aka cheapest) way to outfit the drive-train on this frame?

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukahia View Post
    Well i`m just a biker from Finland... Yes, I have also ordered CS-001 and sent many e mails between Peter. I have drawings of the frame and info/ some knowledge what partīs to use with 170-177 rear.. as I have also build salsa beargrease2 2015 from frame up...
    If You are from Europe I highly recomment to use R2bike...
    Hi Jukahia,
    it seems that you're the first biker to puchase this frame, so your future feed will be appreciated. Will you build a fat bike or a plus bike?
    I plan to build a 29+ full suspension.

    Greetings from Italy

  35. #135
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    subscribe

  36. #136
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    Does this frame require a special rear hub in order to play w/ the split pivot dropouts? Or would a standard I9 (12x 177) thru axle hub work?

  37. #137
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    What do you think about this shock ?

    What do you think about this shock ?

    This shock, and Rockshox Bluto are on my plan.

    Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_0330.jpgChinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_0331.jpgChinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_0332.jpgChinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_0333.jpg

  38. #138
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    Yep..looks good, Might be a bit too much, but who am I to say...

    Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_0515.jpg

    My plan was to use parts what I already have, but that I forgot ... As I started to plan build.

    Now waiting frame to arrive in three weeks;
    -Bluto rct3 120mm
    -Manitou Swinger SPV 6Way Coil Or RS monarch.. 1000g Or 215g, both new ( Both are from sale... so -70% to -55 % prices.. ) These shocks I have bought to look & test what would be the best option...
    -Xt 11 speed
    -10-42 Sram cassette
    -SRAM Chainset X1 1000 FATBIKE 11sp 30t GXP (In use @salsa)
    -SRAM BSA 100 BB GXP
    -shimano SLX brakes
    -Cane 40 headset
    -Hugo 52 27.5 x 50 wheelset (2240g) & Hodag 3,8" tyres are ordered (mid. Dec. is delivery)
    Both wheelsets ( I now have 26" Hope+Nextie65 set) have same hubs, so I can convert both wheelsets to fit Beargrease2 Or CS001.
    So tyres that I will/can currently use, will be
    Front; Bud, Dillinger 5 (studs) or Hodag 3.8"x 27.5
    Rear; BFL, Dunderbeist, Dillinger 5 (studs) or Hodag 3.8"x 27.5

    Hopefully there will be more 27.5 x "3.8" options... And will se how they fit... My calculations say that these fit...But I know for sure when I have test drive them all.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    What do you guys think would be the best(aka cheapest) way to outfit the drive-train on this frame?
    Suntour 11-42 cassette
    10 sp XT Derailleur & shifter
    RF Turbine (non-cinch) crankset and single ring
    Chain of your choice.


  40. #140
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    Nice setup, Jukahia. Hope the wheels and the coil shock work out.

  41. #141
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    Yes.
    MacGyver is my spirit animal

    -Until proven wrong, assume you are the weak link in any system-

  42. #142
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    My pre-order is in...I hope one of those is mine! :-)

  43. #143
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    I am stoked to see those done!

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    What do you guys think would be the best(aka cheapest) way to outfit the drive-train on this frame?
    Best and cheapest are rarely the same thing

    I'm a fan of the Raceface cinch system, you can get fat specific spindle for the crank and available in a few price points (SL next, turbine, and a lower one I think)
    KMC chain, shimano cassette, RD and shifter of your choice.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterXu View Post
    Wanna get one?
    Yes, Nice too see actual product batch and I am waiting mine

    Do You have a list of bearings / sizes what are used ?
    Is the rear brake mounts for 160 mm disc as stock .. ?

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukahia View Post
    Yep..looks good, Might be a bit too much, but who am I to say...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My plan was to use parts what I already have, but that I forgot ... As I started to plan build.

    Now waiting frame to arrive in three weeks;
    -Bluto rct3 120mm
    -Manitou Swinger SPV 6Way Coil Or RS monarch.. 1000g Or 215g, both new ( Both are from sale... so -70% to -55 % prices.. ) These shocks I have bought to look & test what would be the best option...
    -Xt 11 speed
    -10-42 Sram cassette
    -SRAM Chainset X1 1000 FATBIKE 11sp 30t GXP (In use @salsa)
    -SRAM BSA 100 BB GXP
    -shimano SLX brakes
    -Cane 40 headset
    -Hugo 52 27.5 x 50 wheelset (2240g) & Hodag 3,8" tyres are ordered (mid. Dec. is delivery)
    Both wheelsets ( I now have 26" Hope+Nextie65 set) have same hubs, so I can convert both wheelsets to fit Beargrease2 Or CS001.
    So tyres that I will/can currently use, will be
    Front; Bud, Dillinger 5 (studs) or Hodag 3.8"x 27.5
    Rear; BFL, Dunderbeist, Dillinger 5 (studs) or Hodag 3.8"x 27.5

    Hopefully there will be more 27.5 x "3.8" options... And will se how they fit... My calculations say that these fit...But I know for sure when I have test drive them all.
    Curious to see how and when your build comes together!
    Debating one of these frames but wanted to see it done before I jump in. Biggest challenge I think for this frame will be setting up a properly tuned rear shock that works well with whatever front fork your putting on the bike. Bluto would be my first choice but this thing would also rip with a 140mm plus fork. Getting to be a lot of choices....
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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukahia View Post
    Yes, Nice too see actual product batch and I am waiting mine

    Do You have a list of bearings / sizes what are used ?
    Is the rear brake mounts for 160 mm disc as stock .. ?
    shock size 7.875"*2.0"

    bolts size 22.2mm*8.0

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterXu View Post
    shock size 7.875"*2.0"

    bolts size 22.2mm*8.0


    Thanks Peter.
    Can you tell us what shock tune you recommend? Or what is the leverage ratio? Thanks!

  49. #149
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    Shock Tuning

    Peter, it would be nice to have a graph showing the rate of change of the leverage ratio --- is it rising, falling or flat. Can you get this from your engineer? Whatever the case may be, this bike rides the cusp between Low and Mid Tune. See this helpful PDF:

    https://qbp.com/diagrams/TechInfo/vivid.pdf
    Last edited by pmes; 11-19-2015 at 09:35 AM. Reason: more detail

  50. #150
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    The rear wheel travel is 120mm on CS-001 frame

  51. #151
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    Should We try to open this a bit...

    We know that shock is 200 x 50 mm, travel is 120 mm. So leverage ratio is 2.4

    If someone is willing to put data in some nice program, or other way uses a propeller cab.. Is really good with numbers & linkage ratios, I can try to measure values from cs001 drawing.

    What I have done, is that I have two different rear shocks to test when frame arrives, Coil with 6 way adjustments and RS monarch 4.2, tune A, but this also has pretty good various adjustments.. Also inside of a shock is not that weird to me.

    With this leverage ratio 2.4 shock is right in the middle of light & med. tune... A or B

    Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-rock-shox.jpg

  52. #152
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    Peter, would you share CAD info for us to import so that we can do this? Or is there any chance you can get this info for us? Help us get our shocks properly tuned, please.

    Otherwise I suppose you can get pretty good numbers from that drawing, Jukahia.

    Guy that sits next to me at work is our Creo expert...if it comes down to it I'll talk him into helping us model the CS-001 rear wheel travel.

  53. #153
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    Workmate said he'd help me do the model in Creo so we can see how the leverage ratio changes through the 120mm of travel. Creo is ultra high-end 2D/3D CAD software...I'm hoping Peter will share his CAD data with me if he can't get the rate info for us. Otherwise I'm depending on Jukahia to help. :-)

  54. #154
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    Leverage Ratio info for shock selection.

    I haven't used Linkage much ... but here is what it gives me.
    Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-fatbike-1-001_000.jpgChinese carbon full suspension fat bike-fatbike-1-001_geometry.jpgChinese carbon full suspension fat bike-fatbike-1-001_levratio.jpgChinese carbon full suspension fat bike-fatbike-1-001_shockcurve.jpg

    Honestly don't know enough to know totally what it means - maybe someone else is better at this than I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukahia View Post
    Should We try to open this a bit...

    We know that shock is 200 x 50 mm, travel is 120 mm. So leverage ratio is 2.4



    Click image for larger version. 

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  55. #155
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    Has anyone else gotten their frame yet? Mine came on Saturday and man is it a beautiful piece of work. Now I just need to save my pennies to buy the parts to build it.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenPsz View Post
    Has anyone else gotten their frame yet? Mine came on Saturday and man is it a beautiful piece of work. Now I just need to save my pennies to buy the parts to build it.
    C'mon! you can't post that without pictures
    Marin Bobcat Trail 29er - Trek Farley 8

  57. #157
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    Still no customer pics?! Come on!
    MacGyver is my spirit animal

    -Until proven wrong, assume you are the weak link in any system-

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSUPolar View Post
    Still no customer pics?! Come on!
    Yeah, some close up shots of the linkage, bb and head tube or all of it would be great!
    14 GT Zaskar 9r
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  59. #159
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    Seriously thinking about one of these.... would love to see some pics of what you guys received!

  60. #160
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    I now have the info that it will be something like Jan 2016 when I get my hands on one..

  61. #161
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    Was interested in one back when it was supposed to be shipping in like July. This many months later there doesn't seem to be many out yet.

  62. #162
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    I'm patiently awaiting mine...got all the parts, but don't have the wheels built yet so I'm not worried about it. Pairing Peter's 80mm hookless rims to Hope Fatsno hubs using DT Swiss super comp spokes. :-)

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  64. #164
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    We the people ...

    Yep. Productive day @lunch break...
    Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_1198.jpg

    Changed bearings to New Hope hub, as I do not trust the original ones.. also used a bit retaining compound to inner bearing outer surface to keep it in the free hub. Also had some time with lathe by turning bushings to right width.

    Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-img_1193.jpg

    I also now have the v2. hugo 27,5 wheels, and today 27,5*3,8 Hodags should arrive, so I might test these to my Beargrease during Christmas holidays. As We donīt even have snow anymore, and there is +6 (°C) Celsius out side..

  65. #165
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    Holy smokes...that's some serious business. I'm going to measure my bushings tonight to see how they compare.

  66. #166
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    Could not resist to test these on the Beargrease2...Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike-pieni_1218.jpg

    Set is; Hugo 52 v.2 + bontrager 27,5*3,8"
    Tyre is 93 mm wide on a 50mm rim. And there is plenty of room in the back height vice, width were newer my concern... So Iīm more than confident that these will fit to cs001 also

    Front wheel still has a tube inside as tape needed to press down, but rear wheel were air tight & tubeless from the assy.

    Weight is a bit less than my Nextie 65 + bud & dunderbeist tubeless. And the ride is lighter and faster. Height is pretty much the same as Dunderbeist on a 65mm rim. --> So itīs a bit less than Bud.

    Bluto rct3 is also nice, even this is (120mm) 20mm too long for this frame, but I put two tokens inside & set sag 25-30%.

  67. #167
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    Anyone have real photos?

    Peter - have you made and rode a bike?

    Can you put kits on your website?

  68. #168
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    Why don't you guys invest some money in the distribution of illegal soft drugs? Or do some insurance fraud? Then you could buy a original Salsa Bucksaw Carbon frame, and not a blatant knockoff. Should be in the same moral ballpark, and you end up with the genuine article! Win-win!


  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    Why don't you guys invest some money in the distribution of illegal soft drugs? Or do some insurance fraud? Then you could buy a original Salsa Bucksaw Carbon frame, and not a blatant knockoff. Should be in the same moral ballpark, and you end up with the genuine article! Win-win!

    Nah we're too busy feeding trolls n building awesome (Read not getting ripped off by big labels) carbon hyperbikes for peanuts to do such stand up things as that.

    PMSL



    Fat Biker

  70. #170
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    I'm sure Salsa's offerings would be more affordable if they didn't have to develop the bikes first.

  71. #171
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    Did I miss something? Has anyone even seen a picture of these yet? Are we just assuming they are knockoffs of the Bucksaw?

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    Did I miss something? Has anyone even seen a picture of these yet? Are we just assuming they are knockoffs of the Bucksaw?
    3D model here: Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike

    Pictures here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00009557019657

    The seat tube pivot has been moved slightly, but it's otherwise hard telling them apart.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farbar View Post
    3D model here: Chinese carbon full suspension fat bike

    Pictures here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00009557019657

    The seat tube pivot has been moved slightly, but it's otherwise hard telling them apart.
    Ah ha. Thank you. I love how the bluto is backwards in the last picture.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Nah we're too busy feeding trolls n building awesome (Read not getting ripped off by big labels) carbon hyperbikes for peanuts to do such stand up things as that.

    PMSL



    Fat Biker
    Peanuts really, what's the price of the frame? I'm thinking by the time you pay shipping, imports and build the thing you're not saving all that much over say finding one on sale, plus no R&D, do you get a hassle free replacement warranty and support?

  75. #175
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    A. Salsa's suspension design for the Bucksaw is in no way unique...it's Horst and the Horst patent expired in 2014.

    B. It's close to 1/2 the price to build this bike vs buying the carbon Salsa.

    C. How 'bout going on a ride instead of mucking about here?

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmes View Post
    A. Salsa's suspension design for the Bucksaw is in no way unique...it's Horst and the Horst patent expired in 2014.


    B. It's close to 1/2 the price to build this bike vs buying the carbon Salsa.


    C. How 'bout going on a ride instead of mucking about here?

    A. Wrong. It's Dave Weagle's Split Pivot. Salsa licensed it in 2013 with the Spearfish. Salsa Cycles

    B. Of course it is. Salsa started developing the Bucksaw in 2011. That kind of R&D effort doesn't come cheap. Salsa Cycles

    C. "Get a life" ceased to be an effective internet argument ca 1997.

  77. #177
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    My bad. Thanks for correcting me, but it sounds like DW is the one getting ripped off then, not Salsa.

    Too bad. They shouldn't be using the Chinese for cheap labor. We all know they pay the Chinese diddly for mass producing their frames then turn around and charge the same amount they could for Made in the USA frames. We're talking about QBP here...Salsa is just a name they own...not the custom manufacturer out of California they were. QBP is an 8 billion pound gorilla...they ought to build a factory in MSP to manufacture their own bikes...I'd buy one.

    Whatever. I bought a made in China Salsa Las Cruces...never again. High price and bad feel, but the Dreamcicle Orange sure is sweet!
    Last edited by pmes; 12-31-2015 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Salsa was CA, not CO

  78. #178
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    A Carbon Salsa would be close to $6000.

    Building one of these would be about $2400.

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    A Carbon Salsa would be close to $6000.

    Building one of these would be about $2400.
    That makes zero sense if you build it with the same components. You are only looking at the difference in cost between frames.

  80. #180
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    I was going by the pre-built price of $6500 for the Salsa - figuring you could buy it for 10% off.

    And then knowing you could buy a BikesDirect NightTrain Bullet for $1800 and then sell that frame for $200 and put all the stuff onto the $800 carbon frame.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    I was going by the pre-built price of $6500 for the Salsa - figuring you could buy it for 10% off.

    And then knowing you could buy a BikesDirect NightTrain Bullet for $1800 and then sell that frame for $200 and put all the stuff onto the $800 carbon frame.
    Wrong again! The frames are not 800 and you cant compare the components, carbon wheels, carbon bar, dropper post and so on to the crap you get for $1800 at BD!

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    I was going by the pre-built price of $6500 for the Salsa - figuring you could buy it for 10% off.

    And then knowing you could buy a BikesDirect NightTrain Bullet for $1800 and then sell that frame for $200 and put all the stuff onto the $800 carbon frame.

    Comparing apples to apples, you can buy the salsa carbon frame only for $2699 (full retail) and do the same thing. how much is this version (I honestly don't have a clue)? $1100 ish? Does this one come with a shock? Rear axle? If not, factor that cost in too.

  83. #183
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    I think the Salsa frame comes with both hubs axle and tuned shock.

  84. #184
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    This frame is $800 without the fork.

    It would be awesome if someone could do a build list using parts from Merlin or wherever.

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    I think the Salsa frame comes with both hubs axle and tuned shock.
    My Aluminum BS frame came with shock and rear axle.

  86. #186
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    Ok maybe it's the the rigid bikes that come with both hubs.
    But that Chinese frame is more than $800

  87. #187
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    Price is about $1,000 shipped without rear shock. The carbon bucksaw comes with Rockshox Monarch RT3 which looks to be about $370 online. That puts you at about $1,400 with rear axle for this frame vs $2,700 for the carbon bucksaw. It might be worth it for some people and others it might not. I'm on the fence personally. If I hear some good ride reports on this full sus Chinese frame, I might go ahead and get one. I can move 90% of the parts over from my current fat bike so that's pretty much my only cost.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Ok maybe it's the the rigid bikes that come with both hubs.
    But that Chinese frame is more than $800
    Here is one for $880 or best offer. I bet I could get it for $800 without any problem.

    2015 carbonspeed own full suspension fat bike frame CS-001 For Sale

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    Here is one for $880 or best offer. I bet I could get it for $800 without any problem.

    2015 carbonspeed own full suspension fat bike frame CS-001 For Sale
    Ok thanks, I was quoted higher so its strange that they are selling them less then if you contact them directly. I have also seen similar bikes on Ebay but in non fat for $650 so even China has a Fat tax.

  90. #190
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    Maybe there is only one for that price. I don't know.

  91. #191
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    How about looking at several factors other than the cost savings. This guy is terrible about keeping updates. These were supposed to be in the publics hands back in July. Here it is Jan 2016 and nobody has one yet. The price has changed several times and nobody has even gotten one yet. Say you pay him $1,000 shipped and it never shows up. Guess what, not much can be done.

  92. #192
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    True, it takes a lot of cost savings to make up for the risk.

    KenPsz says he got his three weeks ago.

  93. #193
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    Yeah and not one pic or update.
    I'm wondering what goes on there ?


    Fat Biker

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    This is why--in part--businesses keep their product development and release dates secret. People start freaking out if there's a delay. I have a 19" on order and don't expect to hear anything for another 3 weeks. I'd rather they take their time to make sure and get it right the first time instead of sending me a frame that's going to snap on me.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Yeah and not one pic or update.
    I'm wondering what goes on there ?


    Fat Biker
    There is a reason that I have not posted any updates. Actually very good customer service but I will let Peter comment if he wants to.

    But needless to say I am happy with what Peter created and the proactive customer service that he has.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody01 View Post
    How about looking at several factors other than the cost savings. This guy is terrible about keeping updates. These were supposed to be in the publics hands back in July. Here it is Jan 2016 and nobody has one yet. The price has changed several times and nobody has even gotten one yet. Say you pay him $1,000 shipped and it never shows up. Guess what, not much can be done.
    Nothing unique about any of those issues. Pretty common in fatbike land. Most do ship eventually.
    Latitude 61

  97. #197
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    Not to mention Paypal does a great job protecting buyers. In worst case I know I will get my money back.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmes View Post
    Not to mention Paypal does a great job protecting buyers. In worst case I know I will get my money back.
    Not after 6 months.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

  99. #199
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    If one does nothing to see they get what they've ordered or get their money back within six months, one is pretty stupid.

  100. #200
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    Look guys Peter has shipped the 17" frames and as I mentioned there is a very good reason there are no updates. So Peter has built a quality product and he is giving very good customer service to the frames he has shipped.

    So this notion that those of us that ordered frames have not received them is totally false.

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