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  1. #51
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    I got another email last night saying the frames would start to be available in the Jan/Feb timeframe.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    I took a look at pics of both and they appear to be similar (like many carbon frames) but definitely not the same. On the other hand, Salted Bikes does sell the "fork with many names" with their own name thrown on it.
    Compare the geometry charts of these frames...
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Compare the geometry charts of these frames...
    Looks the same geo wise!!

    From their site:
    A lot of hard work and riding has gone into the development of the Sandfly. Needless to say, we're kinda' proud of the end result.

    If it's the same frame as the Borealis, geo wise it is what a bunch of crap!!
    And I love beer!!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espen W View Post
    Compare the geometry charts of these frames...
    With regards to my previous quote, in the immortal words of Willy Wonka, "Strike that, reverse it."


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Looks the same geo wise!!

    From their site:
    A lot of hard work and riding has gone into the development of the Sandfly. Needless to say, we're kinda' proud of the end result.

    If it's the same frame as the Borealis, geo wise it is what a bunch of crap!!
    "Someone" put in a lot of hard work and riding into the development of that frame, they just don't say who.

  6. #56
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    Hmmm... where can I get some just-like-Borealis rims for cheap?
    KOA radio: Broncos 97-3 since 1975 when scoring 30+ at home.

  7. #57
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    Just gonna throw this out here, back when Trek and specialized announced that they were gonna be making fatbikes, there was a whole lot of hue and cry about how they were just aping the little guys and shoving them out of the way and were just gonna destroy fatbikes/flood the market with cheap crap and destroy fatback, 907, etc.

    But apparently, buying a chinese knock-off isn't going to destroy anything, because they're cheap and we all really want carbon fatbikes and 2k is just crazy money for a frame and and and and...

    Just sayin, them cheap frames come at a cost. And the cost is, Trek and Specialized don't give a sh!t. They can hold their own against that stuff. But Fatback and 907? Nope. They can't.

    So if y'all want a world where trek and specialized are the kings of the fatbike world, just buy all the cheap carbon fatties you can. No faster way to kill off the little guys who did all the work developing them. And when this does kill off Fatback and 907, you can just blame Trek and specialized, instead of blaming your cheap knock-off.

    my 2 cents. take it for what it's worth.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Just gonna throw this out here, back when Trek and specialized announced that they were gonna be making fatbikes, there was a whole lot of hue and cry about how they were just aping the little guys and shoving them out of the way and were just gonna destroy fatbikes/flood the market with cheap crap and destroy fatback, 907, etc.

    But apparently, buying a chinese knock-off isn't going to destroy anything, because they're cheap and we all really want carbon fatbikes and 2k is just crazy money for a frame and and and and...

    Just sayin, them cheap frames come at a cost. And the cost is, Trek and Specialized don't give a sh!t. They can hold their own against that stuff. But Fatback and 907? Nope. They can't.

    So if y'all want a world where trek and specialized are the kings of the fatbike world, just buy all the cheap carbon fatties you can. No faster way to kill off the little guys who did all the work developing them. And when this does kill off Fatback and 907, you can just blame Trek and specialized, instead of blaming your cheap knock-off.

    my 2 cents. take it for what it's worth.
    True story, well put sir!!
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  9. #59
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    Good point bf, and I appreciate that position.

    I've got two kids in college, so funds are tight, there's no way I can afford a $2,300 frame. After riding my FB4 for a few months I find I really enjoy the fat bike experience, but would really like a lighter bike.

    I can't speak for everyone out there, but from my position if I did buy one of these bikes, I am not taking a bike purchase away from Fatback or 907. If it came down to it, if this cheap carbon fiber bike doesn't pan out, I simply will ride the FB4 and won't buy another bike right now.

    I do have pangs of guilt in thinking about these frames (and the FB4), but I don't really understand the legal ramifications of mold ownership etc. I hate to support thievery, I guess I assume that whatever they are doing is legal or it would be challenged, maybe that's naive. Like it or not, 907 and other high end bike manufacturers will have to combat the low end retailers, its a fact of life for them. Frankly I doubt anyone who is looking at a CF Beargrease would be tempted by a no-name Chinese frame, I could be wrong there, but if I had the cash, there would be a Beargrease in my shed right now.

    Regardless of those pangs, me buying one of those frames is not hurting 907 or Fatback; me having two kids in college is definitely hurting them, but that's not going to change. I dream about buying a high zoot bike at some time in my life, a no-holds-barred-full-on-blinged-out bike, but that's many years away at this point.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Good point bf, and I appreciate that position.

    I've got two kids in college, so funds are tight, there's no way I can afford a $2,300 frame. After riding my FB4 for a few months I find I really enjoy the fat bike experience, but would really like a lighter bike.

    I can't speak for everyone out there, but from my position if I did buy one of these bikes, I am not taking a bike purchase away from Fatback or 907. If it came down to it, if this cheap carbon fiber bike doesn't pan out, I simply will ride the FB4 and won't buy another bike right now.

    I do have pangs of guilt in thinking about these frames (and the FB4), but I don't really understand the legal ramifications of mold ownership etc. I hate to support thievery, I guess I assume that whatever they are doing is legal or it would be challenged, maybe that's naive. Like it or not, 907 and other high end bike manufacturers will have to combat the low end retailers, its a fact of life for them. Frankly I doubt anyone who is looking at a CF Beargrease would be tempted by a no-name Chinese frame, I could be wrong there, but if I had the cash, there would be a Beargrease in my shed right now.

    Regardless of those pangs, me buying one of those frames is not hurting 907 or Fatback; me having two kids in college is definitely hurting them, but that's not going to change. I dream about buying a high zoot bike at some time in my life, a no-holds-barred-full-on-blinged-out bike, but that's many years away at this point.
    You can justify it any way you like. Don't make it right.

  11. #61
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    preach on! I thought about chinese carbon but decided on 907. A bike that is a few lbs heavier will make my 22lb hardtail feel that much lighter in spring!
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  12. #62
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    Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.

    There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.

    Fat bikes will be just the same, best of all more and more riders will enjoy their Fat Bikes, and have to confidence to spend greater amounts on custom and specialist frames and components.

    Get real.

    Brian

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.

    There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.

    Fat bikes will be just the same, best of all more and more riders will enjoy their Fat Bikes, and have to confidence to spend greater amounts on custom and specialist frames and components.

    Get real.

    Brian
    You can justify it any way you like. Don't make it right.

  14. #64
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    I suppose there is justification in what I wrote, but I can guarantee I won't be buying a $2,300 frame this year.

    These frames, like the Bikesdirect bikes, are a disruptive force in the marketplace, just look at that 250 page thread over in the 29er forum.

    Sorry to have brought it up and p!ssed people off, but I thought it was an interesting option. If the group doesn't like this thread, I have no problem deleting it.
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  15. #65
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    I'm pretty happy with my sub-30 lb Fatback alloy bike. A carbon frame only sheds about 1.5 lbs, so maybe Mr 2 kids in college should cut calories for like 3 days and there's the weight savings.

    I'm kidding jisch, so don't hate me.

  16. #66
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    Walmart was apparently selling knockoffs of Banksy art, with Banksy's name on it.

    I guess it's OK because Banksy originals are really expensive and besides, it doesn't hurt anyone and it gets more people to appreciate art and stuff and really, who's getting harmed.

    Banksy's "Destroy Capitalism" print for sale at Walmart.

    And it's totally OK that GoldieBlox ripped off the beastie boys despite their ban on using their songs for any commercial product, ever because the song was really cute and it's for the kids and the original song was mean and really, who gets hurt, right?

    Never Mind the Lawyers, GoldieBlox Won Big in Beastie Boys Fight

    When you work on a project because you really love it (and want to get paid), pour serious money into it with the hope of getting your money back AND seeing a profit AND seeing the thing you love succeed, and then you get ripped off, let me know how you feel about it.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.

    There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.

    Fat bikes will be just the same, best of all more and more riders will enjoy their Fat Bikes, and have to confidence to spend greater amounts on custom and specialist frames and components.

    Get real.

    Brian
    Bingo!

  18. #68
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    na, just keep the thread rolling. i have this suspicion that some people purchased fat bike recently and now begin to regret it.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    na, just keep the thread rolling. i have this suspicion that some people purchased fat bike recently and now begin to regret it.
    Nope, I *just* bought the alloy Fatback and I LOVE it. Gonna ride it in the snow immediately after work today.

    Zero regrets.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    na, just keep the thread rolling. i have this suspicion that some people purchased fat bike recently and now begin to regret it.
    No buyers regret here. I don't mind people selling cheap carbon frames what I do have a problem with is companies that rip other companies designs off. I support local as much as I can and its up to each individual to make their own choices, I won't judge.
    And I love beer!!

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddslacker View Post
    I'm kidding jisch, so don't hate me.
    LOL, no hate here! (BTW at my lightest in 10 years right now, so I've done my part).
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckfiddious View Post
    Walmart was apparently selling knockoffs of Banksy art, with Banksy's name on it.
    Good points, something to ponder. Thanks!
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  23. #73
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    If I had a nice fat bike in the shed, this thread would not be threatening nor would I be suffering buyer's remorse. I think that's important to realize with one of these bikes (much like the FB4), you're not buying a high end product, and you'll get what you pay for in some regards.

    There are definitely advantages to owning something high end, it can be as intangible as what the marketing guys tell you or as concrete as high resale value or knowing you can call someone to get help if you have issues. I totally get that and I wish I was in a position to participate in it.
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  24. #74
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    Ask yourself the questions

    Who paid for and trained in the use of the computer design software tools to draw and analyse the frames structure.
    Who paid for and trained to use the stress analysis software and hardware machines to test the prototypes.
    Who paid for the factory.
    Who produced the mould tools, who had the skill, who trained the staff.

    Who provided all these facilities and took risks to produce small volumes for the custom US fatbike house that marks the frames up three, four, five times.

    Why do the US small volume custom houses allow these guys to make another frame mould and sell direct. The factory could not supply just the low volume high price quantities and survive. It's called dual price marketing and is used all over the world.

    Ford Cars sell at high price to the retail sector and miles lower prices to the lease companies. It's standard marketing textbook stuff.

    As I say! just choose your price point and enjoy your Fat bike.

    Brian

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Ask yourself the questions

    Who paid for and trained in the use of the computer design software tools to draw and analyse the frames structure.
    Who paid for and trained to use the stress analysis software and hardware machines to test the prototypes.
    Who paid for the factory.
    Who produced the mould tools, who had the skill, who trained the staff.

    Who provided all these facilities and took risks to produce small volumes for the custom US fatbike house that marks the frames up three, four, five times.

    Why do the US small volume custom houses allow these guys to make another frame mould and sell direct. The factory could not supply just the low volume high price quantities and survive. It's called dual price marketing and is used all over the world.

    Ford Cars sell at high price to the retail sector and miles lower prices to the lease companies. It's standard marketing textbook stuff.

    As I say! just choose your price point and enjoy your Fat bike.

    Brian
    So, by this logic I assume you own every song, movie and TV show in your inventory? Because the people who get hurt most by pirating are, by your logic, the industry that fronts bands the money for studio time, pays the promotion and distributes the music, and the artists themselves don't really matter.

    So I'm going to guess that you'd never pirate a song, movie or TV show because you'd be ripping off the system. And whether that song is performed by Nirvana or kidz bop doesn't matter at all because it's all about the pricepoint and the process of manufacture, not the creativity behind it.


    You can justify it however you like. It still doesn't make it right.

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