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  1. #201
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    Clint: rep sent. Definitely don't agree with beer comment, but you're right on the money with the rest!
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  2. #202
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    Yep, we are ordering some carbon frames. They told me Feb. as well. Now the next thing we need is a simple parts group to go with it.

  3. #203
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    Just a question.....how many of you drive a Honda, Kia, Hyundai, Toyota or a Suzuki? Not saying anything is right or wrong about it, but just trying to understand the logic of some of the responses. Please don't take it the wrong way. By the Way I have a Jeep, a Ford, and a Subaru. And I'm pretty ok with my logic on these companies.

    As for Bikes I have the following:
    Lynskey - Made in USA
    Surly Moonlander- Made in Taiwan
    Cannondale SuperSix- Made in China

    But this is what I understand about some of these companies.

    Some might be the same factory that manufacturers say Specialized stuff, or Cannondale, or whatever, however like say a steel fab plant here in the US. Specialized and Cannondale are basically customers of their Carbon Fab plant. So in essence they have their own RD people who may work on the US company stuff, but also develop their own stuff, and manufacture it when the orders are slow or fulfilled for their customers. They then kill the overhead by eliminating the middle man, and basically sell direct. Kinda like going to an Amish farm and buying their products be it a shed, or some shoe fly pie.

    So, would I substitute a China Frame for a Pivot, Trek, Intense, or other frame? Probably not, solely due the the CS that you get from these companies. You break a China Bike, then you're shipping it across the ocean, you break on of the normal US bought bikes, you take it to the LBS and normally you'll get to speak to someone about the issue.

    Adversly IMO, the price of the China Direct frame is a fraction of the cost of say a Trek Carbon Frame, so I guess if you're willing to possibly eat the cost or have limited CS for your China Frame, then so be it.

    For example, my first 29er was a Sette....Awesome Awesome Awesome bike, but ya know I wasn't quite sure I was going to like a 29er, and I wasn't willing to fork out twice the money for half the spec on a big name bike, that I may not even like. So I used Sette to light my desire to ride big wheels, and now as stated above I ride a Lynskey.

    I think that explains my view on it, basically these companies only open the door to the normal companies or smaller companies. We all want that super top end bike, but we need to build up to it.
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidthefridgeguy View Post
    Yep, we are ordering some carbon frames. They told me Feb. as well. Now the next thing we need is a simple parts group to go with it.
    Are there prices and specs available?
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by vack View Post
    So, would I substitute a China Frame for a Pivot, Trek, Intense, or other frame? Probably not, solely due the the CS that you get from these companies. You break a China Bike, then you're shipping it across the ocean, you break on of the normal US bought bikes, you take it to the LBS and normally you'll get to speak to someone about the issue.

    Adversly IMO, the price of the China Direct frame is a fraction of the cost of say a Trek Carbon Frame, so I guess if you're willing to possibly eat the cost or have limited CS for your China Frame, then so be it.
    Here's the solution to the "warranty quandry"...

    Buy two of them at once. Then you have an instant replacement should something go wrong and you don't have to worry about shipping/dealing with the plant, etc. The cost of the second frame will be well below what you're paying all the middlemen if you order the premium-branded frame.

    The irony in a lot of bicycle discussions is that the only riders who truly need the bleeding edge of technology/weight savings/expensive features to be competitive never buy a bike themselves. For the rest of us mere mortals, the frame's major purpose is to keep all the parts on a bike in good spatial alignment. It's a rigid truss with a certain transfer function to incoming vibration and loads. Basic, basic basic engineered structure. The joke's on us that we pay so much money for such a simple item, most of the time.

  6. #206
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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    I took a chance on a set of Light Bicycle rims for my Pivot-the customer service was great, shipping was fast and the product was good. I was a little worried at first, but if do business with them again. Im in for a frame.

  7. #207
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    Subscribed Just because my birthday is in February

  8. #208
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    On a serious note would carbon become substantially more brittle in the sub zero temperatures these bikes are primarily designed to be used in (mud and sand excepted)

    I have had some seriously large rocks (circa house brick sized 3-5lb) bounce off my carbon On-One 456 in the summer and the frame just flexed and shrugged them off .

    Would this be the case with a frozen carbon frame ?

  9. #209
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    Fat Biker - as aeroplanes, skis and ice hockey sticks can all use CF - I doubt a few degrees C will cause any harm.

    On the upside my DIY CF frame lets me lick it's top tube without my tongue sticking ;-)

  10. #210
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    Fat Biker - I talked with Aaron of Blonde Fabrications about this concern. The frames he made were constructed with an epoxy he specifically searched for that had tested within desired parameters to (I believe) -60 F.

    So: a proper epoxy exists.

    I'd hope that any given carbon manufacturer is employing carbon prepreg with a proper epoxy. Whether they actually are - something worth asking.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clydesdale Clint View Post
    Here's the solution to the "warranty quandry"...

    Buy two of them at once...
    Solution!

    In many ways modern bike production is very like it was in the UK from the 1900s to 1950s. There were a few big actual manufacturers who made almost all their own components (eg Raleigh compared to Giant now) and everyone else bought in all the parts and basically assembled their bikes and stuck their brand on it. Even handbuilt frames were built from the same components as the next brand, ie lugs bought in, tubes bought in.

    The general public bought from the big manufacturers. The sporting public usually bought from the individual brands where they could specify exactly what they wanted, but really their bikes were different in only very small details from those of another small brand. This is why there was such an obsession with hand carved lugs, or curly stays.

    Men like Jack Lauterwasser could build an all steel bike with common off the shelf parts that weighed 17 1/2lbs in 1930 - it was his removal of excess metal that made the difference. The difference these days is that small brands are mainly just assemblers of completely bought in bike parts with no actual engineering input. PR seems to be the main input now.

    It seems to me that what the Chinese C/F manufacturers bring to the table is the ability to engineer and manufacture the frames and what is contributed by the brand are really small details of design much like the 1900s to 1950s, ie most of the intellectual property of the frames is Chinese, and surely if there is any IP belonging to the importer it should be protected by being registered?
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    Fat Biker - as aeroplanes, skis and ice hockey sticks can all use CF - I doubt a few degrees C will cause any harm.
    D'oH ! Never thought of that side of things

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey View Post
    On the upside my DIY CF frame lets me lick it's top tube without my tongue sticking ;-)
    Don't keep us in suspense Stuey what does it taste of ? Please tell us it's licorice ??????

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Fat Biker - I talked with Aaron of Blonde Fabrications about this concern. The frames he made were constructed with an epoxy he specifically searched for that had tested within desired parameters to (I believe) -60 F.

    So: a proper epoxy exists.

    I'd hope that any given carbon manufacturer is employing carbon prepreg with a proper epoxy. Whether they actually are - something worth asking.
    Thanks Drew now I don't feel quite soooo dumb LOL

  13. #213
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    Sorry, I don't feel bad one bit buying a chinese carbon frame or bike. I have multiple buddies running light-bicycle rims, an nancy over there has been nothing but responsive to EVERY question or request. Also i know a few guys running the cheap chinese 29er hardtails as their main bike and have put well over a 1000 miles of hard rocky rooty singletrack. Then I look at a brand like "niner" an know someone that has broken 3 frames!
    I personally own, an Ibis ripley, an intense carbine, and just sold a mojo HD, and I also had a felt nine carbon hardtail earlier this year. So I've been on a carbon bike for 3+ years and have paid premium for the frames but a fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter so therefore the chinese carbon really appeals to me. I wouldn't buy a 6" suspension chinese carbon knockoff an have confidence to hit freeride lines, but a fatbike in snow? Please....
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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    Sorry, I don't feel bad one bit buying a chinese carbon frame or bike. I have multiple buddies running light-bicycle rims, an nancy over there has been nothing but responsive to EVERY question or request. Also i know a few guys running the cheap chinese 29er hardtails as their main bike and have put well over a 1000 miles of hard rocky rooty singletrack. Then I look at a brand like "niner" an know someone that has broken 3 frames!
    I personally own, an Ibis ripley, an intense carbine, and just sold a mojo HD, and I also had a felt nine carbon hardtail earlier this year. So I've been on a carbon bike for 3+ years and have paid premium for the frames but a fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter so therefore the chinese carbon really appeals to me. I wouldn't buy a 6" suspension chinese carbon knockoff an have confidence to hit freeride lines, but a fatbike in snow? Please....
    +1….same boat here

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by manchvegas View Post
    A fat bike for me will never be anything more than a quiver bike that gets used half a dozen times when conditions allow in the winter
    I call BS!

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    +1….same boat here
    +2 Bust out the fatty when there's not enough snow for pow but too much to ride dirt...
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  17. #217
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    yeah, maybe I'll ride it more than I think.. but with the bikes I already have, I highly doubt it seeing the light of day other than in the snow...
    Full time rider part time racer...

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  18. #218
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    +3
    totaly agree

  19. #219
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    also, emailed peter from xmiplay and he did confirm again they are working on a fatty frame..

    Thanks for your inquiry!



    Yes, we are doing fatbike frame mould now, I think the sample will be available at the end of Jan 2014 or Feb 2014



    Best Regards,

    Peter

    I've also emailed him back if he has any info on geo, axle spacing an possible ball park pricing.. I also reached out to Nancy at Light-bicycle an she didn't seem to know. And just a side note as well.. as far as everyone saying you get what you pay for, customer service etc... I have to say these Chinese carbon people answer my emails faster than any US company I've bought a bike from, except for maybe ibis and intense. So the argument that you get no customer service is bull..
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  20. #220
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    i asked him same about 2 weeks ago. he would not give any details. but i agree, only bike company that answers your emails quicker is ibis. i also asked light bicycle and nextie on fat bike frame development, both responded that they will evaluate their plans for future products after new year.

  21. #221
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    Seen a Carbon BG yesterday. As stated before, here is that seam that I had questions about. The same seam is on the downtube as well. Those of you more carbon savy than me should chime in.

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  22. #222
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    vack it is possible that is a co-molded seam, and the front triangle can be thought of as two halves joined down the middle along the bike's length from a bird's eye view.

    Keep in mind that while I don't like the idea, I'm not an expert, and I have seen only one failure involving a frame that was constructed the same, a Trek Superfly. And it didn't break, the owner saw some slight delamination and stopped riding it, a repairable condition.
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  23. #223
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    Drew, I have no idea, but that makes sense.
    I have one Carbon Bike, a Cannondale SuperSix, and I was just out in the garage trying to find a seam....I could not. I'm not sure if that's because these BG's are raw and my Supersix is painted, I don't know.

    But I too seen a Superfly fail on the top tube, not mine but a friend, the tube near the seat tube turned to mush and it failed at that seam.
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  24. #224
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    Lamere fat frame and fork on sale at $1400 for the next week: Lamere Cycles Introduces Factory Direct Carbon Fatbike Frame and Fork
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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkrobe View Post
    Lamere fat frame and fork on sale at $1400 for the next week: Lamere Cycles Introduces Factory Direct Carbon Fatbike Frame and Fork
    So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.

  26. #226
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    If the Chinese frames are exactly the same as those imported by domestic companies, what then is a "knockoff" other than TM infringement regarding decals? I'm assuming the bike pictured came out of the same mold as the "legit" frames:

    Mike Sinyard?s Open Letter to the Industry

    Obviously, to me at least, there's some difference in process/materials/QA/QC depending on whom one sources a frame from. Also, to me, customer service isn't measured by how fast someone in sales responds to a purchase inquiry.
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  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.
    I am assuming these ship straight from China and Lamere never touches them. That's what "factory direct" means to me.

    If they ship to Lamere and Lamere then ships them, then they are no different than Bikes Direct, etc. type of companies where they eliminate the middle man or bicycle dealer.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    So buying from the middleman is considered factory direct now? I guess that makes Fatback, 907 and Borealis factory direct too.
    Fatback frames are made in the US .. not sure that fits the point you're trying to make.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    I am assuming these ship straight from China and Lamere never touches them. That's what "factory direct" means to me.

    If they ship to Lamere and Lamere then ships them, then they are no different than Bikes Direct, etc. type of companies where they eliminate the middle man or bicycle dealer.
    Factory direct typically means you (the consumer) are buying directly from the factory or manufacturer. e.g. carbon rims from light-bicycles.com.

    Lamere is buying from the manufacturer, adding on his profit and reselling to the consumer. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not factory direct and the <del>$1800</del> $1400 price tag reflects that.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Oh so many fond memories, my first BMX bike.
    Mine too! I had the red white and blur pro thunder 3.
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  31. #231
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    On the subject of carbon rims... I've heard light bicycle have some coming out at the end of Jan...

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyhavenpotterer View Post
    Of all the people in the world, you US guys should understand and support free markets.

    There are expensive 29ers, custom 29ers and cheap copy 29ers. All being produced and all being bought at the price point each customer can afford.

    Fat bikes will be just the same, best of all more and more riders will enjoy their Fat Bikes, and have to confidence to spend greater amounts on custom and specialist frames and components.

    Get real.

    Brian
    And with more Fat bikes being sold, more & more components will follow (like suspension forks!)

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  35. #235
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    According to the description, these are black anodized alloy wheels.

    Edit: Looks to me like the same frame and fork Lamere Cycles is trying to sell for $1800.

  36. #236
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    Re: Chinese Carbon fatty

    Looking forward to early adopter doing some testing. If it will fit 80mm rims with Lou in back I'll probably get a frame.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

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  38. #238
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    Very interesting...
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  39. #239
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    Finally...but,

    they ship out in 60 days... so I don't think that are already available.

    Chris.

  40. #240
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    yeah, would wait until end of february. there should be more chinese fatbike frame options by then. even wheels.

  41. #241
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    This is awesome. I will probably build one up.

    As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.

    These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Read the entire thread and kept hoping for some pics and links. Finally, after all the BS we have pay dirt. Can't wait to place my order.

    The one piece missing from the argument is that anyone can get on a plane, go to China, and start a CF manufacturing business. Go for it! But wait, why hasn't Trek or Cannondale or Spesh done so? Or have they? Is Giant "XM I Play"? Is Bontrager "Light Bicycle"...

    Economies of scale?

  43. #243
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    Some more info they just sent me. They look to have dirt cheap 65mm and 80mm complete carbon rims and also extremely cheap alloy 100mm complete rims. Oh my.


    Remark: We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame.




    1.)front fork 15mm thru axle QR, model QR325 15*142mm.
    2.)rear normal QR M10,model: AF711 M5*200mm.
    3.)rear 12mm thru axle QR
    4.)Rear 12mm dropout ,model fm-m010-end
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  44. #244
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    2016 Trek Farley 7
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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    Remark: We have offset rear triangle(OLD 190mm=90mm+100mm) to avoid the chain touch tyre.That means if you build the wheelset,you have to adjust the rear wheel left +5mm to make the wheel in center of frame.
    5mm offset on a 190mm frame??? As excited as I am about cheaper carbon, that just seems like a major fail.

  46. #246
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    If I a reading this correctly, frame and rims will be about 2kg.? Does that include the fork? What are we looking at for total bike weight.

    I really don't need another bike with my mukluk2 serving me quite well, but for a fun project this is starting to be interesting.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    This is awesome. I will probably build one up.

    As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.

    These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.
    I don't think it's the graphics that make my Yampa handle better than my Fatback did, or maybe it is? It also fit's me better hmmmm, Why go hatin on other peoples rides?

    P.S. I had a 190 aluminum Fatback with carbon fork on order but with my local club discount and with no shipping fees my Yampa came to about $500 more than the Fatback. Don't get me wrong I am still a Fatback fanboy though but this was just a no brainier, oh and did I mention it was actually available.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    5mm offset on a 190mm frame??? As excited as I am about cheaper carbon, that just seems like a major fail.
    I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.
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  49. #249
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    Everyone has their own opinion. I think the borealis is the best looking fatbike out there…. I also think the fatbacks are hideous.

    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    This is awesome. I will probably build one up.

    As an aside, I really can't believe that people would pay $2,200 or so for a Borealis. That's just ridiculous. At least the Fatback carbon and Salsa Beargrease look cool. They look different, chiseled, well thought out and have some nice graphics etc. on them to separate them. Borealis looks like a sign shop cooked up some decals with some free fonts and slapped them on a carbon frame.

    These are what I knew would trickle in at a price that is spot on. Might build up a 1x10 or 11 to compliment my singlespeed Fatback.
    Front Range, Colorado

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.
    pretty sure all 190s currently out are symmetrical. My 907 is. Looking to build a bike for my wife and the offset is definitely a deal breaker for me.
    Front Range, Colorado

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    Links above are showing no longer available or product page that no longer exists.

    Did they all sell, or get pulled for some other reason?

    Following thread with much interests. Love a bargain if it has value. Love supporting local manufacturing but honestly in bike frames and components the industry is in Asia already. Supporting big bike companies who design, import and market innovation is something I also like to do when innovation is real. IMO I have gotten tired of component line changes and complication with so little value except for hype, price increase and minimal improvement. I welcome some resetting of the value chain so engineers and marketing muscle can bring more value to products we buy. Having been riding bikes since cassettes were 5 cogs and campy was king I feel today's price to value ratio is too high.

    So fat bike evolution the next few years will be interesting to watch.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tincup69 View Post
    I don't know anything about frame geometry but is 5mm a lot for offset? Are any other 190mm frames offset of are they all symmetrical? I posted the numbers hoping someone could decipher them. I think my Muk is symmetrical but don't know how much that matters to me.
    5mm isn't a lot, but a 190 frame shouldn't need any. It makes me think the frame was poorly designed and the offset was a late in the process fix.

    $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.

  53. #253
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    As someone mentioned earlier the bike is off the website now. Strange.
    2016 Trek Farley 7
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  54. #254
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    Ooops. Mistake. Move along.

  55. #255
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    iPlay Carbon 26er fat bike frames will be available in Feb.

    Email: peter@xmiplay.cn
    Skype: peterque520
    Last edited by PeterQ520; 01-15-2014 at 07:56 PM.

  56. #256
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    PeterQ520 - Do you have any info on the fatbike frame please ?

    Is the rear symetrical and what is the rear axle spacing please ?
    Will it be available in 100mm BSA english BB also ?

    Thanks

    Fat Biker

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    5mm isn't a lot, but a 190 frame shouldn't need any. It makes me think the frame was poorly designed and the offset was a late in the process fix.

    $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.

    I Agree with this. And on another point, I love the look of the Yampa, Just sayin

  58. #258
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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterQ520 View Post
    iPlay Carbon 26er fat bike frames will be available in Feb. Here are weights of our carbon fat bike rims.

    Weight: 550g for FR-026-65 (65mm width)
    620g for FR-026-80 (80mm width)

    Email: peter@xmiplay.cn
    Skype: peterque520
    Do you have images of the carbon rims?

  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by juxtaposition View Post
    $800 is still a lot of money for a lemon.
    Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don’t think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.

    I am very interested in a Chinese Carbon fat bike. Yet it has to be priced right, it has to be a very good deal. If they jack up their prices and jump on the hype train like the rest of the industry I doubt the sales will be there. Chinese manufacturers that sell direct to consumers need to offer a no-brainer smoking good deal if I am going to take the risk of buying from them.

  60. #260
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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don’t think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.
    .
    The newest, lightest hard tail is going for more than $449. 256 is the frame number.

    $800 out the door for frame and fork is worth it.

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    The newest, lightest hard tail is going for more than $449. 256 is the frame number.

    $800 out the door for frame and fork is worth it.
    Light bicycle is a Chinese Carbon manufacturer and seller. Arguably one of the most reliable and has lots of good reviews. Check it out…

    carbon 29er frame carbon mtb frame Light-Bicycle

    $449 is the price for the frame.

  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Agreed, $800 for a Chinese direct carbon frame is way too much. I don’t think they should be more than their carbon 29er frame. Light bicycle is selling their carbon frames for $449 the fat bike frame should be similarly priced. Ideally $600 for a frameset with fork, or $1000 rolling chassis (carbon frameset and carbon wheelset) shipped.

    I am very interested in a Chinese Carbon fat bike. Yet it has to be priced right, it has to be a very good deal. If they jack up their prices and jump on the hype train like the rest of the industry I doubt the sales will be there. Chinese manufacturers that sell direct to consumers need to offer a no-brainer smoking good deal if I am going to take the risk of buying from them.
    ^ +1

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMjunky View Post
    Light bicycle is a Chinese Carbon manufacturer and seller. Arguably one of the most reliable and has lots of good reviews. Check it out…

    carbon 29er frame carbon mtb frame Light-Bicycle

    $449 is the price for the frame.
    If you read the Threads LB has admiitted themselves that they are not a good supplier of bike frames. Their rep is solely based on rims.

    Here is the newest China HT, sub 900g:
    Chinese Carbon 29er - Page 250

  64. #264
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    deleted
    Last edited by PeterQ520; 01-15-2014 at 07:53 PM.

  65. #265
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    They look nice.

    I wonder who will be first to drill them
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterQ520 View Post
    Yes, see the attached pictures and geometries.
    Thanks, looks great!

  67. #267
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    nice, like the little channel on both sides. nextie rims dont seem to have it. now i wish these were 90mm, but cant have everything i guess. what about the frame Peter? can we have a peek?

  68. #268
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    Yay 65mm FTW!

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    They look nice.

    I wonder who will be first to drill them
    Oh man.

    1) Don't!
    2) If you insist, use a diamond hole saw.
    3) See (1)
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Oh man.

    1) Don't!
    2) If you insist, use a diamond hole saw.
    3) See (1)
    No danger of me doing it. I still haven't drilled any of my rims - I figure the amount of mud I would pick up on a ride would exceed the weight savings
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterQ520 View Post
    Yes, see the attached pictures and geometries.
    I went back through the thread but did not see where to order these rims when they become available. I guess I'll just google "iplay carbon rim 80mm" and see what turns up?

  72. #272
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    Those 65mm rims are going to look good on a Troll or Instigator 2.0

  73. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrY10cK View Post
    I went back through the thread but did not see where to order these rims when they become available. I guess I'll just google "iplay carbon rim 80mm" and see what turns up?
    We haven't listed these rims onto our website or Alibaba website yet, just to let you guys know we have these rims available to order now.

    After a few months we can will list these rims and frames onto our websites.

    BTW, Chinese New Year is coming, the fat bike frame will be delayed production time. we will have about 15 days holiday from Jan 26th.

    Email: peter@xmiplay.cn
    Skype: peterque520

  74. #274
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    Would have done better to 100mm!

  75. #275
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    I ordered a pair of the iPlay 80mm carbon rims and will report back with pictures. (And ride report once the rest of my carbon fatty bits arrive)

  76. #276
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    how much is 80mm?

  77. #277
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    Last edited by brankulo; 01-16-2014 at 07:56 AM.

  78. #278
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    Chinese Carbon fatty

    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    peter quoted me $240 a rim. i have not ordered yet though.
    To your front door? What about shipping and Paypal fees?

  79. #279
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    Sarma Naran 80

    Good price but better to buy Sarma Naran 80
    Compatible with tubeless
    Carbon Fatbike rim Naran 80 | Sarma bikes - the best fatbikes in the world

  80. #280
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    rim only, shipping/paypal extra

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penetrator View Post
    Good price but better to buy Sarma Naran 80
    Compatible with tubeless
    Carbon Fatbike rim Naran 80 | Sarma bikes - the best fatbikes in the world
    Please explain how when the Sarma rims are $830/pair at their cheapest ? And a similar weight ! I would imagine the iplay rims can be made tubeless also .


    Fat Biker

  82. #282
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    yeah almost double the price, iplay rims could be set tubeless too imho

  83. #283
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    just got email from peter with geometry of their new fat bike frame. will post it later if he doesnt beat me to it. he is also saying they will have another fat frame available in march.

  84. #284
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    Oooo! I am interested in seeing the geometry. Perhaps I will order a frame from them in addition to the rims already ordered.

    Chinese new year is coming up though and we should expect much of China to be on extended holiday.

  85. #285
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    ...

  86. #286
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    [edit: removed details not yet ready to be made public]

    If the iPlay frame is 190mm spaced and actually available in the next few months, they'll have me as a customer for a frame as well as the rims I already ordered.

    Emailing the company reveals that the frame is nearly finished and more details should be available soon. I can't wait.
    Last edited by dfiler; 01-15-2014 at 09:51 AM.

  87. #287
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    Would like to see shorter effective top tubes on the small frames 570-584mm.

  88. #288
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    Deleted at the request of brankulo

    With help from dfiler

    Thanks


    Fat Biker
    Last edited by Fat Biker; 01-15-2014 at 01:08 PM.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post


    Prospective price ?

    I wouldn't pay a dime over what people are paying for the IP 256.

  90. #290
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    Why the 31.6 seat tube? seems like 30.9 is the standard, certainly for dropper posts. Is that size common with other fat bikes?

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Why the 31.6 seat tube? seems like 30.9 is the standard, certainly for dropper posts. Is that size common with other fat bikes?
    Seems like in my experience 31.6 is becoming "the standard" most all my frames are 31.6 . But then I only have one Fatty (with a 31.6 100mm Reverb )


    Fat Biker

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Biker View Post
    Any ideas on the rear hub spacing at all ?

    Symmetrical/offset ?

    Fingers crossed for 190mm symmetrical

    Prospective price ?


    As much as I could see a certain company being PI**ED at this "clone" there are slight geo differences (but not by much)

    Any guesses as to which "other" carbon fat bike frame they have coming out in March might be a "copy" of hmmmnnnnn ?

    Fat Biker
    I removed the picture and post because it apparently wasn't ready for public consumption yet. More details will probably be provided within the next month.

    Calling it a "clone" or a "copy" seems like jumping to conclusions. Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy. Am I missing something? (An honest question) I'm hoping it isn't the usual slandering of a company merely for being Chinese.

    Here is an interesting read on why many frames look similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis @ Dirt Works View Post
    I can answer that one. Seeing as how Salted Bikes is a brand owned by Dirt Works Australia (founded in 1994). We were the Australian distributor for Surly and Salsa from 2001 until very recently. What does this mean to you?

    Well, it means that we have some history. (though that's nothing even remotely like the long rich history of Pete, Greg and the rest of the Alaskan crew)

    We actually have some experience with assisting design and development on Taiwan product as well. In the past we worked with JoyTech/NovaTech on hub, freewheel and seal design and development.

    I guess I'm just making the point that we didn't just pop-up following the next fashion trend in bikes. We've been in the business of bikes since 1994 (well... considerably longer if you want to include time in bicycle retail) and around FATbikes (specifically) since 2005 when we brought our very first shipment of Pugsley frames into Australia. We've ridden FATbikes in Desert races (Simpson Desert Bike Challenge), 100klm marathons, 24 hour events and on everyday trails.

    But onto the frame.

    We have a relationship with a carbon framebuilder who makes a lot of different frames, for many many brands, that you probably know.

    They also happen to have a very nice 170mm frame that looks very similar to the 190mm frame. This 170mm frame is one that they have been working on for well over a year now. We had been following it's development and were about to place an order on it when the 190mm became an option. We may still order the 170mm frame (as well) as a) it's a little lighter and b) not everyone wants or needs 4.8" tyres on 100mm rims for trail riding.

    Anyway, the way it works is that they have a design that they have developed. They want to sell it around the world. And, just like the fork maker (they're friends actually), of the famous "fork of many names", they don't want to "build a brand and market it".

    They're happy to do what they do best. Manufacturer the actual product. So they look for partners that can do the marketing and sales side of things. People that have knowledge in their specific niche. Which is great since while we know a lot about geometry, features and ride quality, we're kinda' light-on when it comes to carbon frame manufacture.

    But, making a carbon frame isn't cheap. Moulds are bloody expensive. So carbon frame builders do things in two ways. OEM mould or OPEN mould.

    With an OEM mould; the brand on the side of the frame that comes out of the mould usually owns the tooling and design. They have invested a lot of money in their own tooling and so their design (and the risk) is theirs. (probably the most well known design like this is Ibis)

    Where it can get confusing is that sometimes an OEM mould may incorporate design elements from the carbon frame makers own designs. A good example of this is the flattened seatstays on our Sandfly frame. This design feature is used on many OPEN moulds by our frame maker. But it's also utilised on a large number of his OEM frames too. Clearly a lot of his OEM clients like the design and elect to use it on their own frames.

    An OPEN mould is where the frame maker has invested their own money into the tooling and are taking their own risk. To make the investment in an OPEN mould (and in multiple sizes) viable, the frame maker will make the frame available to multiple brands in different geographic locations. (USA, Australia, UK and so on) Typically, use of an OPEN mould, requires an order of 50-100 frames.

    I should probably point out, that our frames have their own OPEN moulds that are owned by the frame maker. And while they may look "similar" to others. They're not identical. The Sandfly for example, can run a triple chainring with 4.8" tyres on 100mm rims - other (similar looking) brands can not. We're also running with a 190mm x 12mm thu axle on the rear. Based on our experience with FAT wheels and custom wheelbuilding, we feel that it really locks the back end together much better that a std QR.

    ​So let's be clear about this ok. You will see the Sandfly frame, sooner or later (on an international site) with a different brand name on it. (I guarantee it, as I'm aware of some of the other brand partners in this around the world)

    Sorry to burst the balloon. But it's a fact.

    For more on the world of OEM moulds, OPEN moulds, (and everything in between) the guys at Switchback Bikes has it explained quite well here.


    Elvis.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I wouldn't pay a dime over what people are paying for the IP 256.
    Neither would I . Considering the IP-256 is running $600 - $620 .

    The IP-256 is T800 by all accounts rather than the more common and cheaper T700 , so that would increase the price somewhat I would have thought .

    But to $620 over $400-$450 seems a big jump IMHO .

    If it's T700 I would probably go as high as $550 but that would be my max . Maybe another $150 for a fork too




    Fat Biker

  94. #294
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    peter asked me not to make the geometry public, i would remove it from whoever post it is in. 31.6 is standard i would say.
    excited about new frame. he would not comment on other fat frame yet.

  95. #295
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    Huh, I haven't really kept track on the seatpost thing, but 3/4 of the mountain bikes in my shed are 30.9 - that fourth one is 31.6 though. Its easy enough to shim a 30.9 post to 31.6 I suppose. I hate minor differences like that though - it really keeps the parts bin in my basement full of parts that no longer fit.

  96. #296
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    Got a quasi-confirmation from Carolin at LB, 90mm carbon rim, ~630g, available for order at the end of January, assuming they can source hubs they will also build wheels on request. Cost TBD.
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    peter asked me not to make the geometry public, i would remove it from whoever post it is in. 31.6 is standard i would say.
    excited about new frame. he would not comment on other fat frame yet.

    And the first thing you do is post it on a public forum ?

    The second is complain that someone has used your post (that you were asked not to post) to raise some questions ?


    Fat Biker

    P.S. FWIW I tried to remove it (4 times but no dice - sorry)

  98. #298
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    great, as i was more looking for 90mm and nextie 90mm rim looks little weird to me with drilling so centered. would still get peters frame though.

  99. #299
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    well i did but removed after he asked me to do so. there is still image that somebody else posted and removed quoted in another post

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Calling it a "clone" or a "copy" seems like jumping to conclusions. Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy. Am I missing something? (An honest question) I'm hoping it isn't the usual slandering of a company merely for being Chinese.
    No insult to anyone intended by calling it a "clone" or a "copy"

    If I can buy part "x" from somewhere (e.g. China ) and it is substantially cheaper than my own country (or anywhere else) then my hard earned £'s are going to the whomever can provide me with the best bang per £ . My choice .

    If on the other hand someone wants to support their country / small business / local retailer and pay more . That's their choice .

    My way means I get to ride a "similar" product to Joe Bloggs (who paid top dollar) for a fraction of the cost .
    I can guarantee I will have a bigger smile on my face for longer . Cos what people don't seem to realise is the difference in a lot of products is not the quality but the stickers / decals that adorn them . The reason Joe Bloggs paid what he did is because he believes he is getting a better product . When in actual fact what he is getting is the same product , made in the same factory as mine was alongside his . The difference being the company Joe Bloggs bought his from charged him 2x - 4x (just an example) as much so they could still make a profit *when* his breaks and they have to replace it FOC or at "cost" .

    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Indeed, I don't see anything about this frame that even hints of being a copy.
    You have't noticed the similarities between this and the 9:zero:7 Whiteout ?


    Chinese Carbon fatty-907carbonwhiteout.jpg




    fat Biker

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