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Thread: Borealis Hubs

  1. #1
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    Borealis Hubs

    Anyone have the borealis hub apart yet? Read an article that says there is a 6 pawl with 144 points of engagement but their website says 72 which is probably a 4 pawl? What internals are they using? I am currently waiting on mine and have been for about 2 weeks. Anyone else waiting on hubs and if so, what date were you given for them?

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    Can't really answer most of that, but I had one apart a while ago so maybe these pics can help. They are having a new hub manufacturer produce hubs, so I'm not sure if your will look like this. The new manufacturer is a little better quality from what I understand, although I have no complaints with these hubs.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

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    upmtbyader, The new hubs are 6 pawl. pbasinger is showing the previous 3 pawl hubs. Name:  Borealis_Freehub_Body-265x300.jpg
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    I am awaitin myself. Lbs said Dec 5th. Borealis says late 2nd or 3rd week of December.
    Last edited by WickedLite; 01-09-2014 at 08:24 PM.

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    Sweet, then my Carbondales should come with the new style in January

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    That is awesome I just built up a brand new out of date wheelset, so stoked about that!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    That is awesome I just built up a brand new out of date wheelset, so stoked about that!!

    Ha. Well the "old" hubs are pretty nice in my opinion. The switch to the new manufacturer was mostly because the older one was having longer production delays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    That is awesome I just built up a brand new out of date wheelset, so stoked about that!!
    At least you got em built and riding bro.

    I drilled my son of RD's to crazy and then HED goes and offers 480g hoops...

    A Week Later!

    son of a. Now I'm twiddlin till these come in.

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    Can't ride right now but at least my Yampa is pretty to look at. The good news is the lower engagement won't bother a thing with it sittin in the basement

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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    upmtbyader, The new hubs are 6 paw. pbasinger is showing the previous 3 paw hubs. Name:  Borealis_Freehub_Body-265x300.jpg
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    I am awaitin myself. Lbs said Dec 5th. Borealis says late 2nd or 3rd week of December.
    Whos internals are they using?

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    My lbs swears the new 6 pawl hubs and Carbondales are in the mail so for anyone wanting to know, they are now available.
    Last edited by WickedLite; 01-09-2014 at 08:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    My lbs swears the new 6 paw hubs and carbondales are in the mail so for anyone wanting to know, they are now available.
    I was told thurs or fri and they didnt come today in Da UP of Mi. But I did call Borealis and was told the new hubs are 3 pawl.

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    LBS said they arrived yesterday which means a couple more days for me to confirm pawls.
    Last edited by WickedLite; 01-09-2014 at 08:25 PM.

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    The hubs on my Carbondales are 3 pawl, received them last week. Both front and rear are slightly different from the ones on my HRDs

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    LBS says Borealis says improved version now but not confirming pawls.

    I'm not too worried about it BUT they should say what they are selling Correctly.

    Not too many people would accept a 6 cyl Challenger on delivery when told a 383 is in there when ordering but that is a bigger diff I know. Still lightest 190mm hubset out there. 6 pawl woulda weighted it down I guess.
    Last edited by WickedLite; 01-09-2014 at 08:26 PM.

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    3 pawls it is for the new ones.

    Now maybe someone can help me figure out how to get my xx1 set up done on my new Borealis 190mm hubs. Pleeeease

    So I got 2 hub sets. 1 black with xd11 drive that I installed and 1 red that came with it installed.

    Black hub set: I removed freehub mech and back spacer. Installed xd11 driver and cassette flush to hub body flange. The wide flange end cap will not thread on axle since this flange rests on teeth of xx1 tightener (lock ring). It's like the hole is not big enough or cassette is not on far enough.

    Red hub set: I installed xx1 cassette flush against hub body flange. Same issue with this end cap. This cap has 2 narrower flanges that prevent it from getting close enough to the axle threads.

    With end cap, sitting as I have done it puts the with too wide to fit the Yampa frame.

    It's like the hub body is too wide.

    I've built a many bikes but I'm feeling like a real noob right now. I even went to the lbs and they couldn't figure it out. Enlighten me!!

    As you can see the cassette is on as far as it can go.
    As you can see the axle end sits flush with small cog.
    As you can see the caps have wide flanges which are to rest on xx1 tightener (lock ring).
    What am I doin wrong here?
    Borealis Hubs-img_3529.jpgBorealis Hubs-img_3530.jpgBorealis Hubs-img_3531.jpgBorealis Hubs-img_3532.jpgBorealis Hubs-img_3533.jpg
    Last edited by WickedLite; 01-09-2014 at 08:27 PM.

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    Way above my pay grade but in situations like this I usually just take a step back and drink!! Cheers!!!

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    Thanks Ditchman. I knew someone would talk some sense.

    I think the last time you suggested this to me though, I had a pretty wicked headache the next morning.

    Highland Park.... down the hatch...

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    Wicked Lite, it looks like you are mixing parts between new and old hubs. The old style had the silver colored driver, the new has a red colored driver. It is kind of hard to tell from the pics but I think that may be what is going on.

    With the new hubs the drive side end cap and spacer between XD and 10 spd drivers are NOT interchangeable.

    The new hubs are 3 pawls and engagement feels similar to something like a Hope or Shimano hub but I do not remember exactly what the engagement is.

    If you call Greg in the morning I am sure he will get you sorted out.

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    Yup that drink helped DITCHMAN! So end cap on first. Then cassette. Son of a.

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    You are correct with the black hub set chriskmurray. The raw colored driver came separate, is the older style and is NOT compatible with the new hubs.

    The newer red driver was already installed on the new red hub set. Buuut I was putting end cap on after cassette or trying too.... duuh.

    I need another driver for my black hubs. I can just swap driver and cassette when I wanna change wheelsets... till it shows I guess.

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    I purchased a Yampa X.9/X.0 on December 1, 2013 and am really enjoying it but have encountered some significant problems with my free hub.

    When on the bike or rotated by hand, the free hub action is exceptionally rough and noisy. When on the bike, the hub is almost 'fixie' and there is limited freewheeling.

    The cassette and bearing preload are properly tightened. I haven't dismantled the hub so I don't know what the bearings or pawls look like.

    Do you have any advice on how to get this quickly repaired? I have contacted Borealis but have yet to hear back (I live about 6 hours from the nearest Borealis dealer)

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    Do you have a cassette lockring tool and a chainwhip?

    Take the cassette off and take a pic. Then hub off and take a pic. It's really easy and quick. You'll be done tonight if you get us pics.

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    images of hub and free hub bidy

    Here are some shots of the hub and free hub body. One of the pawls doesn't have any spring action in it and there appear to be chunks of metal in the bearings.Borealis Hubs-img_0779.jpgBorealis Hubs-img_0784.jpg

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    That's looks like it was worth removing.

    tyberius_77, it looks like your pressfit sealed bearings are missing. I cannot see around your freehub mech but I took a pic of mine. When I push down the spring comes up just in front of paw. How's yours look in front of your injured paw?

    Borealis Hubs-img_3546.jpgBorealis Hubs-img_3547.jpg

    edit. this is a xx1 freehub mech. Let me pic the borealis stock mech.

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    That's some serious damage you have there on the pawl edges and the face just behind the pawls. Let's see a pick inside your hub body. Something inside there is hitting it and chewing your freehub mech and pawls away.

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    Here is the newer freehub mech which is different than yours. There is a spacer that fits in here and keeps this at the right distance to the hub body flange.
    Borealis Hubs-img_3548.jpg

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    tyberius_77

    Some of those first run hubs had a tendency to loosen up at the end caps causing exactly what you're describing. Sounds like you have checked they are tight, so possibly it loosened up at some point and you retightened it? Loosening up may have caused some damage.

    I would remove the freehub and check the pawls and hub body. Clean out any debris, lube it and see how it runs. If there is any damage I would try to get a replacement from Borealis. I'm sure they will get back to you within a few days if not sooner.

    Is there any chance the freehub was removed by a shop or coming from Borealis to either winterize it or put on an Xd driver? There is a washer in there and that could have been left out, although I can't say for certain that would cause the symptoms you're describing just a guess.

  28. #28
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    Pawl guys. Pawl.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

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    ^^corrected

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyberius_77 View Post

    When on the bike or rotated by hand, the free hub action is exceptionally rough and noisy. When on the bike, the hub is almost 'fixie' and there is limited freewheeling.

    Do you have any advice on how to get this quickly repaired? I have contacted Borealis but have yet to hear back (I live about 6 hours from the nearest Borealis dealer)

    This happened within the first few days on my riding partners Yampa. Borealis has been but great about it, as they sent a new freehub to Canada and he was rolling within a week. He had more problems, so they've sent two new hubs (it appears his and my bike both got the first version.) It's just recently started on my hub now too, but my Carbondale's should be in next week so I'm going to tough it out and they can re-lace the new hub later. Six hours away is pretty good, seeing as how it appears it happened to Daniel Burton, while he was heading to the south pole.

    Again, Borealis has been great about it, can't say that enough!

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    Any ideas on when new hubs started going out? My frame was received 2 weeks ago.

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    A batch went out 2.5 weeks ago Aftershock. I know cause I waited since my order in October and just got them last week.

    So you got your frame and are waiting on hubs?

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    I'm having problems too. At first I though it was because it was damn cold and the grease was sticking, but when I removed the freehub it looked like that...

    Borealis Hubs-img_6046.jpg

    Borealis Hubs-img_6042.jpg

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    Yeah Jozz, give Greg a call. Borealis are good people and should help you out quick.

    So just to clarify so anyone reading can understand including myself. This is an ongoing issue with the older style hubs. And the newer Freehubs are NOT interchangeable so people need new hubs altogether?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    Yeah Jozz, give Greg a call. Borealis are good people and should help you out quick.
    Already in contact with them. I told them I would ride it a bit more to see if it was a grease issue, but yesterday it started acting up again. So will contact them again and see what they offer me. Last time they answered me within a few hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    A batch went out 2.5 weeks ago Aftershock. I know cause I waited since my order in October and just got them last week.

    So you got your frame and are waiting on hubs?
    Hubs came in with the frame.

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    If you just got them you should be sweet. You can take a look at the color of your freehub. The new ones are colored. I have only seen red on new 9/10 spd freehub and red on new xd11 driver.

    All new xd11 drivers are colored but maybe someone can chime in if they gotta different color or even raw newer 9/10 freehubs. Or you can take a look at yours and see the difference compared with all the pics we posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    If you just got them you should be sweet. You can take a look at the color of your freehub. The new ones are colored. I have only seen red on new 9/10 spd freehub and red on new xd11 driver.

    All new xd11 drivers are colored but maybe someone can chime in if they gotta different color or even raw newer 9/10 freehubs. Or you can take a look at yours and see the difference compared with all the pics we posted.
    All of the drivers, XD and 10 speed on the new hubs are red. The old hubs all had the raw colored driver.

    We will take good care of anyone who has had issues with their hubs as soon as they get a chance to check your emails or return phone calls.

    I do not remember the exact date we switched to the new style hubs but if your order was from a couple weeks ago they will without a doubt be the new style.

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    Dang holding my breathe!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jozz View Post
    I'm having problems too. At first I though it was because it was damn cold and the grease was sticking, but when I removed the freehub it looked like that...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jozz; While I am no mechanic or engineer, it appears to me that somehow the pawls have been forced backwards beyond their intended range. A symptom of too much torque for the given design? Seems like there would have to be some flex in the hub to allow this?

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    I spoke with Greg from Borealis today and a few moments later I received the UPS confirmation that a new hub was on its way to me. Though I am a little disappointed that I will now have to pay for a wheel build I am pleased with the quick replacement of the hub.

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    SR

    When did you get your hubs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    Jozz; While I am no mechanic or engineer, it appears to me that somehow the pawls have been forced backwards beyond their intended range. A symptom of too much torque for the given design? Seems like there would have to be some flex in the hub to allow this?
    No mechanical enginneer also, but I suspect a too soft alloy or something as the metal seem to have bulge near the pawls. The sticky hub problem arise when I've been climbing non stop for a long period, say 15 minutes or more. I'm sure Greg will take care of me. Too bad I will need to have my wheel rebuilt if its a complete new hub that is needed.

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    When rebuilding the wheel around the new hub what spoke tension should be aimed for? This is on the Clown Shoes. Thanks!

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    Toasted! Seems I finished my last ride with 2 out of 6 pawls intact. Chunks of metal loose inside = not good.

    Borealis Hubs-img_6490.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_Open View Post
    When rebuilding the wheel around the new hub what spoke tension should be aimed for? This is on the Clown Shoes. Thanks!
    We build Clown Shoes to 120kgf drive side on the rear and brake side on the fronts.

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    Excellent. Thank you very much!

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    Any idea if the borealis rear hub can be converted for 12mm?

    The high points of engagement count is appealing but I would prefer it to be convertible for my next frame.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Any idea if the borealis rear hub can be converted for 12mm?

    The high points of engagement count is appealing but I would prefer it to be convertible for my next frame.
    You can convert them to 12mm on the new hubs pretty easily with changing end caps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskmurray View Post
    You can convert them to 12mm on the new hubs pretty easily with changing end caps.
    That's awesome. It is what I hoped but have not seen in writing anywhere.

    Have you personally seen the 12mm conversion caps or is it listed anywhere officially? Will the caps make it 197x12 or 190x12?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    That's awesome. It is what I hoped but have not seen in writing anywhere.

    Have you personally seen the 12mm conversion caps or is it listed anywhere officially? Will the caps make it 197x12 or 190x12?
    I actually am the head wheel builder at Borealis so I have seen them.

    I am pretty certain we have end caps for both options, I will double check tomorrow but I am pretty sure we have end caps for both 12mm options.

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    Thanks for the info. My fingers are crossed for confirmation.

    For me this would make the borealis hubs the best fat hubs available. 15mm front axle means the possibility of upgrading to a suspension fork without fear of a flexy front end. This is especially true with upside-down forks as are currently the only option. Also, front brake spacing seems more future proof, allowing better tire clearance when putting the wheel into a fork.

    For the rear, 190mm will allow the biggest tires and rims ever manufactured. And… high engagement count is key.

    With 12mm compatibility, there wouldn't be anything left on my wish list. There's nothing else I can think of as a feature available elsewhere. If not, I'm sure borealis is already scheming on new developments.

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    Ok now I'm confused I have a 6 pawl hub and It's one of the originals I think and it is also taking a dump. How many different hubs do they have?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Borealis Hubs-1604562_811767385515449_2138864196_n.jpg  


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    The new ones have a colored (red on red hub) freehub. Call Greg and you should get your new hub within a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Ok now I'm confused I have a 6 pawl hub and It's one of the originals I think and it is also taking a dump. How many different hubs do they have?

    Look at that. You thought you had built a wheel with the older 3 pawl.... but you got a sixer. wtf. Only have seen the older 3 pawl raw colored and...

    My new red colored ones (newest are only 3 pawl and red) for original hub and xd driver.

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    Yeah confusing isn't it. I think the poe is 48 but I could be off I got thirsty in the middle of the count.

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    Can't see from the pic, are those double row of pawls? My old one was 3 rows of doubles, 6 pawls total. Confusing to say the least...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jozz View Post
    Can't see from the pic, are those double row of pawls? My old one was 3 rows of doubles, 6 pawls total. Confusing to say the least...
    6 rows of 6 kinda, they are actually just one pawl each split for the spring thingy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Borealis Hubs-75649_811969108828610_812739266_n.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Thanks for the info. My fingers are crossed for confirmation.

    For me this would make the borealis hubs the best fat hubs available. 15mm front axle means the possibility of upgrading to a suspension fork without fear of a flexy front end. This is especially true with upside-down forks as are currently the only option. Also, front brake spacing seems more future proof, allowing better tire clearance when putting the wheel into a fork.

    For the rear, 190mm will allow the biggest tires and rims ever manufactured. And… high engagement count is key.

    With 12mm compatibility, there wouldn't be anything left on my wish list. There's nothing else I can think of as a feature available elsewhere. If not, I'm sure borealis is already scheming on new developments.
    Both our front and rear hubs are convertible, we wanted them to be as versatile as possible and work with frames/forks other than our own. The fronts can do either 15mm thru axle and also standard 9mm QR.

    The rear hubs can do 197x12, 190x12, and 190 with standard 9mm QR.

    For the engagement the new hubs are a 3 pawl set up and engagement is similar to Shimano or older Hopes.

    There seems to be a bit of confusion about knowing which hubs you have. Every one of the new hubs has a red driver no matter the hub body color or the driver type.

    If the driver on your hubs is a raw aluminum color it is one of the older style hubs. On the older hubs we did have both 3 pawl and 6 pawl drivers which are interchangeable but NOT with the new hubs.

    The reason for the change in hubs is we had a number of inconsistency issues and had a handful of drivers fail like you have seen in this post. If you have an issue with a hub do not hesitate to give Greg a call at (320) FAT-BIKE and he will get your sorted out quickly.

    I hope this clears up any confusion and if there are any more questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer.

    Thanks
    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskmurray View Post
    Both our front and rear hubs are convertible, we wanted them to be as versatile as possible and work with frames/forks other than our own. The fronts can do either 15mm thru axle and also standard 9mm QR.

    The rear hubs can do 197x12, 190x12, and 190 with standard 9mm QR.

    For the engagement the new hubs are a 3 pawl set up and engagement is similar to Shimano or older Hopes.

    There seems to be a bit of confusion about knowing which hubs you have. Every one of the new hubs has a red driver no matter the hub body color or the driver type.

    If the driver on your hubs is a raw aluminum color it is one of the older style hubs. On the older hubs we did have both 3 pawl and 6 pawl drivers which are interchangeable but NOT with the new hubs.

    The reason for the change in hubs is we had a number of inconsistency issues and had a handful of drivers fail like you have seen in this post. If you have an issue with a hub do not hesitate to give Greg a call at (320) FAT-BIKE and he will get your sorted out quickly.

    I hope this clears up any confusion and if there are any more questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer.

    Thanks
    Chris
    Already taken care of Borealis is a top notch company for sure!!

    Thanks...bOb

  61. #61
    Must build all the wheels
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Already taken care of Borealis is a top notch company for sure!!

    Thanks...bOb
    That is exactly why I love working here! Glad he got you sorted out quickly.

    Chris

  62. #62
    Anchorage, AK
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    Has anyone experienced creaking with the old-style hubs? I have some pretty bad creaking and have tightened / lubed everything. The only thing left that I can think of is the hub. I only hear the creaking when I pedal.
    --Peace

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    Has anyone experienced creaking with the old-style hubs? I have some pretty bad creaking and have tightened / lubed everything. The only thing left that I can think of is the hub. I only hear the creaking when I pedal.
    Turned out some crud had worked its way behind the pawls in the hub and was making the noise.
    --Peace

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    Has anyone experienced creaking with the old-style hubs? I have some pretty bad creaking and have tightened / lubed everything. The only thing left that I can think of is the hub. I only hear the creaking when I pedal.
    Did it sound like the spokes were loose? Mine does. Just checked it out and tightened everything and the nerve wrecking "twang" still appears.

  65. #65
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    Re: Borealis Hubs

    Yup. Sounded like noisy spokes. A good cleaning of the pawls, springs, and the spring pocket took care of it.

    --Lars
    Last edited by Lars_D; 07-12-2014 at 02:36 PM.
    --Peace

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankD View Post
    Did it sound like the spokes were loose? Mine does. Just checked it out and tightened everything and the nerve wrecking "twang" still appears.
    Nope. No freewheel. Frame. Broken. ****.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankD View Post
    ****.
    I meant ****.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankD View Post
    I meant ****.
    Can I buy a vowel?

    So are you saying your frame broke and if so where and was it a Yampa?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Can I buy a vowel?

    So are you saying your frame broke and if so where and was it a Yampa?
    That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes, Yampa and the left chainstay. Almost from top to bottom of the tube.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankD View Post
    That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes, Yampa and the left chainstay. Almost from top to bottom of the tube.
    You are not alone my friend!!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    You are not alone my friend!!
    You got to be kidding me?!

  72. #72
    zeb
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    Just when i was about chainging from bulk aluminium to high end carbon frame.
    Makes me think twice if warranty does not cover or takes too much precious summer ridingtime,Meanwhile try to take it easy.
    Any pics?

  73. #73
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    Mine was the seat tube and I had about 8 miles on it, now I ride ti. Warranty was dealt with very very fast but I was riding with the manager of the shop I bought it from so that helped. The boys at Borealis seem to take very good care of their customers.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedLite View Post
    Here is the newer freehub mech which is different than yours. There is a spacer that fits in here and keeps this at the right distance to the hub body flange.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Interesting, it is identical to the Stan's XD driver...

    Stan's NoTubes Stans XD Driver | Competitive Cyclist
    --Peace

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