I know this is a more limited group, but for any/ all Bluto adopters, where are you running your fork? I am having to drop my pressure way below recommended to get any good action out of the fork and get full travel. Even at 75psi, I get 15% sag and the fork feels super stiction-ey. Dropped it down to 65 to try later today. I'm 165- 170 all kitted up, so should be 100+ psi.
The Pike on my regular bike is the first Rockshox fork I've used for many years so have little to compare it to. Previous years I'd always run Marzocchi forks.
Ah hell, just posted a thread. Cliffs are that I put a 120mm bluto on my XL frame Fatboy and...well I hate the geometry now. Tried flipping the stem and dropping a spacer and just ended up pissed off halfway through my ride from having to dab every 3 minutes.
Do I just need to get used to it, or should I go with the factory geometry consistent 80mm?
80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.
What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?
80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.
What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?
All of it. I just feel like I can't control the bike anymore even on mild chunk either unless it was going down hill, and had to basically dab constantly to the point I had no fun and just went home on the second ride.
I did use my bluto with stock seals in temps around -20 f back in mid-winter , so I sure could have experienced the issue - but I believe it wasn't until very recently - in summer temps of 60's to 80's that I noticed the reduced travel problem - which I have attempted to address by bleeding the negative air valve.
Question/Comparison regarding the pressures for the Bluto. I'm currently running at 135 psi on the 100mm at about 190 pounds with a full backpack. Usually at 12psi on nates for the summer.
Reading most of the Bluto threads this seems on the high side compared to what most people are running. The thing is anything lower makes me worry about bottoming out. My regular trails don't have any huge drops, but I do tend to barrel down the trail hitting small jumps ,and riding aggressively down rocks and roots. My O ring is usually close to max travel at the end of a ride.
I really like the feel of the fork at 120 psi, but am I simply out of luck? Sometimes I worry bottoming out at 135 psi if I ever have to pass a bit bigger drop. I've only bottomed out twice.Once at 125 psi during regular trail use, and once at 135 psi involving a large foliage covered hole bringing me to an sudden abrupt stop.
Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.
So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)
The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.
Nah, I'll probably end up putting in a third token anyways. Will let me hit a better balance between pressure, and ramp. Thanks for the suggestion though!
I'll update the above as it may be useful to someone else. I pulled the lowers today and removed the compression and rebound dampers. What I found was a broken chunk of washer that had become lodged between the damper shaft and the inner oring of the seal head. This let all the oil drain into the lower, causing the hydro lock. The offending washer is the thin one on top of the rebound damper:
I replaced the outer oring with a slightly undersized one I had lying about the house. Slapped 106ml of Mobil 1 ATF in there in lieu of fork oil, and some 75wt synthetic in the lowers. Reassembled, and everything seems to be holding. Fork is smooth, but I don't think the rebound damper is working ATM, since the broken washer exposes an open passage in the damper head. If I replaced the washer, I should be golden.
I run my rebound damping at the minimum(fastest) setting anyhow, so it's really not a huge adjustment for me. FWIW. YMMV.
Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.
Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?
Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....
Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.
Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?
Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....
The Mobil ATF is allegedly around 7.5wt, though it doesn't have an actual claimed weight. I've got all of one ride on the stuff. It is rare for me to finish a ride with travel left, but noticed I had most of an inch left after this one. Notable because I hit a fairly heavy staircase drop(maybe four feet to flat concrete), two jump spots(medium tables/gaps with a couple overshoots to flat), and popped a lot of lips around town. Normally the indicator would be topped out. I tried slamming the fork with my full weight repeatedly, but couldn't quite bottom it.
I am on a standard bluto rl with 120mm travel, but the fluid change appears to have increased bottom out resistance, and the fork feels super smooth up top. I was getting amazing pop of the jumps, but my rebound issues may be affecting that.
People report having great success with this stuff, and say it doesn't break down over time as fork oil will. I'll prolly be sticking with it. FTR, I'm 200# and prefer a relatively firm setup, so YMMV. I have stock tokens and run my fork @ 140psi.
Just FWIW, I noticed on my ride yesterday that I had a rather hard "bottom out" of my Bluto on the trail. Checked travel and I hadn't used more than about 65mm. Surprised I hadn't noticed any trouble before. But today, I started troubleshooting. Released air from the negative spring. No difference. Emptied positive air chamber, no change. Started working on the damper side, accidentally compressed the fork too much before I got the damper loosened, and the control rod and two steel bearings shot out, and I got a faceful of suspension fluid. Damn. Managed to find the little balls in my very messy workshop, amazingly enough. Heard one hit the tile and tracked it down quickly enough. Couldn't find the other at first, but started retracing events and found the second right underneath the bike. Thankfully, the spring stayed put inside the rod.
It shot out a good bit of fluid, so I didn't bother removing more. Put everything back together and tested it out, and I managed to get full travel.
I guess I had too much fluid in the damper side, but IIRC, I was getting full travel when I first did the damper swap, too. Not sure what changed. Thankfully it wasn't a difficult fix. Ran through the damper settings and the lockout still works, so I didn't remove too much fluid. Now for a ride tomorrow.
I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).
Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.
I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).
Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.
I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. On an earlier visit he told me the negative air migration usually occurs on hard compression, like a bottom out, or close to a bottom out.
This is completely a design flaw in the Bluto, and will only get much worse in the winter months as the O-rings contract. They've essential designed a faulty summer fork for an all-season bike that is expected to be ridden in the winter. Unfortunately I only have two options left, I now have to call and complain to RockShock directly, about my negative air migration issues, or in the end cough up the dough to change the O-rings.
I asked the shop mechanic if I simply rode the fork hard till it completely lost pressure in the winter, would they cover it then, and he said they'd most likely just tell them to release the air from the negative and pump it back up.
Its like you design a car who's suspension is only meant for warm climates, and then come and sell it in Canada with no changes what so ever, and play dumb when the suspensions fail. I understand this is a very niche product, but when we pay premiums for niche products, its with the understanding that they're properly designed for that niche.
All in all I know eventually I'll probably buy the O-rings myself, but I really wish everyone with a Bluto would call and complain. I always try and stay positive, but sometimes if feels like the bike industry is really just doing everything they can to reinforce the image of overpriced alloy and plastic that breaks 4 months in.
The real kicker would be if the newer RCT3 version of the Bluto has thicker O-rings, be nice if that comparison could be done. Then we'd known if either they simply don't care or are trying to play dumb with first gen Bluto owners. Really wish there was some kind of competition in the FatBike Suspension Fork space, might force some actual changes/improvements.
Nope, even in its current state, I'd take the bluto over any rigid fork without a second thought. The Bluto really turns your fatty into an all-season, all terrain shredder. The stability of a fat tire paired with a suspension is amazing.
I'm on the fence - I like rigid and suspension both.
I may wait for the next gen fork and see if I'm convinced about this.
That said I'm no newb, my first suspension fork was the Rock Shox Mag21 in the 90's, and if by this time the forks are still having these kinds of teething troubles and reliability issues...well like I said there's a lot to be said for rigid, all season, pretty much all terrain to boot.
We shall see, but I appreciate your input.
This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.
I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.
I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?
I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.
I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out.
The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!
I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.
I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?
I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.
I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out.
The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!
I think you are talking about the crown race on the fork. Assuming you are keeping the same headset then yes you want to take it off the old fork and install it on the new one. Your local bike shop will have tools for this and will charge you a minimal fee for it. Just be aware those are an interference fit and even with the proper tools they can be damaged during removal so you might end up replacing it. My suggestion would be to just spend a few bucks for a new one to put on your new fork so if you ever want to put the rigid fork back on you can. Since you are probably going to have your local shop build the wheel up just have them put a new crown race on the Bluto for a few bucks more
If you want to keep the original bottom headset, you'll need a new crown race with 45 degree (the one on your carbon fork is glued to it so no way to get it off and swap) (I didn't find it alone so had to buy one bottom headset and use the crown race) Then just insert it on the fork, a little grease, put the fork back in and go!
FYI if you are installing a Bluto on a Fatboy SE, they use a split crown race so you can easily reuse it without tools. Just slide it off and put it on the new fork.
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