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  1. #401
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    Okay guys, I have one more question and then I think I'm ready to rock. You've all been very helpful, and I'm very appreciative of all the info you guys have given me.

    Reading the service manual and watching a few videos, I'm still a bit unclear on adding oil to the lowers after reassembling the fork. The RockShox manual says to angle the fitting of your syringe so that the fluid will only contact the inside of the lower legs. I'm assuming this basically means don't get fluid inside the air shaft or damper shaft correct? Basically turn the nozzle so that the oil goes into the fork leg but doesn't shoot or splash into either shaft, then push the lowers up until you can thread the bottom bolts in correct?

    Thanks again so much guys. Bike gets here tomorrow so I'll be hitting the shop tomorrow night after work.

  2. #402
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    If you're talking about the 5 ml of oil then no. You should have the fork back together and ready to screw the bolts back into the very bottoms of each leg. Before you do that, put 5 mls of oil into the holes the bolts thread into. That's why you need to tip the fork past level so the oil won't come back out. Screw in the bolts and you're done. Make sure you get the rebound bolt on the correct side.

  3. #403
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    Ok, just reread your post. Pull the upper fork up just enough so you can get the oil in and then push them back down so you can install the bolts.

  4. #404
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    So the oil does go into the holes they thread into (inside the shafts?)

    And yes I am talking about the 5ml in the lower fork legs.

  5. #405
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    No oil inside the shafts.

  6. #406
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    That's what I needed to know, thanks.

  7. #407
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    Okay HELP! Screwed up and spilled some of my 5wt oil for the upper leg and ended up with 96ml of oil. I ended up adding 10ml of the 15wt I still had to get the whole 106ml in there. Will 10ml of a different wt be okay? Both oils are Rock Shox oils.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Okay HELP! Screwed up and spilled some of my 5wt oil for the upper leg and ended up with 96ml of oil. I ended up adding 10ml of the 15wt I still had to get the whole 106ml in there. Will 10ml of a different wt be okay? Both oils are Rock Shox oils.
    You effectively made 6wt oil (5.9433), might slightly increase the dampening but I doubt you would notice.
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  9. #409
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    Using the red band on the fork, where would it be at the end of the ride if you had actually bottomed out?


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  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    Using the red band on the fork, where would it be at the end of the ride if you had actually bottomed out?


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    Let all the air out and compress it as far as it will go, that will tell you where the bottom is for sure.

  11. #411
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    Paochow, thanks! That makes me feel much better, I'll leave it alone.

    So basically I'm done with the rebuild side of it. I slick honey'd the air side and swapped the oil in the oil side. Everything went swimmingly other than knocking the oil over.

    I pumped the fork up to 135 psi for my 200 lbs and even though I don't have it mounted on the bike yet, it feels incredibly stiff. I guess it is only supposed to sag 10-20% with my weight on it though which is about what I'm getting if I press on it (not on the bike yet, just clipped into the block that goes on the axle that the fork comes with).

    When I tried to put the lowers on the first time, the air shaft was pulled up in the leg and I couldn't get it to come down until I unscrewed the cap on the top of the leg and pulled it down with the cap and tokens out of the leg. Normal?

    Also, when I move the compression knob, there's 6 indents for the knob when you remove it, but with the knob on 5 of the settings feel solid and the 6th (last) one doesn't feel as solid as the rest.

    Other than that it was a lot easier than I thought it'd be. I worry about scratching either of the shafts, but don't recall dinging either one with any tools.

    Thanks for answering all my questions. You guys have been awesome.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Let all the air out and compress it as far as it will go, that will tell you where the bottom is for sure.
    I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...


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  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...


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    yes, that's really the answer.

    There should be a somewhat gradual increase in compression damping ("stiffness") on the fork as you turn the knob towards the lock position. If it's not behaving quite that way, fluid levels are probably not exactly where they need to be.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester7677 View Post
    I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...


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    From my experience, yes. Full travel will push the red indicator o-ring all the way to the top.

  15. #415
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    Gotcha, thanks. I'm 200lbs with gear. I went to three tokens, 6 clicks from slow rebound and 115 psi before quickly unscrewing the pump. Was much better and I have about 1 cm of travel that hasn't been touched after my ride where I tried to jump anything I dared and down/up some valleys. I'll leave as is I think. When I get it serviced I'll talk to the LBS about changing fluids.
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  16. #416
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    2 quick questions for you guys:

    Please excuse the newbness here, but should my lock out actually 'lock' out? If I turn the knob all the way to locked, there is still some travel in the fork, and it definitely moves an inch or so if I bunny hop. It does feel stiffer than the other settings though. I was bunny just to get a feel for the fork (my yard is flat). I've heard you don't want to ride too much of the rough stuff locked out because it can damage the seals in the fork, I'm assuming a couple of bunny hops are okay though?

    Also, is the fork supposed to be silent when traveling or is it normal to hear it kind of 'whoosh' as it travels? (not loud, but definitely there).

    Thanks!

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    2 quick questions for you guys:

    Please excuse the newbness here, but should my lock out actually 'lock' out? If I turn the knob all the way to locked, there is still some travel in the fork, and it definitely moves an inch or so if I bunny hop. It does feel stiffer than the other settings though.

    Also, is the fork supposed to be silent when traveling or is it normal to hear it kind of 'whoosh' as it travels? (not loud, but definitely there).

    Thanks!
    THe lockout is not a true lockout and you will get movement. As far as noise mine is pretty quiet.

  18. #418
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    Okay. Wish I could explain the noise better as it really isn't that loud.

    And bunny hopping with the lockout on isn't going to like, blow a seal or anything right?

    Edit: Just went out and checked and the fork is silent if I just hold the brakes and push on it. If I bunny hop it, there's a little noise as it rebounds when I pull up on the bars but that's all. Hard to explain though.

    Sorry for the newbness.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Okay. Wish I could explain the noise better as it really isn't that loud.

    And bunny hopping with the lockout on isn't going to like, blow a seal or anything right?
    The lock out is designed to blow off on a drop or big bump to prevent damage to the fork.

    The noise.. is this your first air fork?
    All my air forks make a noise, like a squish noise.

  20. #420
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    Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.
    I'm about 170 running 3 and it sounds like I ride about the same as you and I might be taking one out. Even on the biggest hits I'm not getting full full travel but I also run a fairly firm air pressure. If I were you I would just try it first. Maybe RS will smarten up and send and extra one or two like they do with the Pikes.

  22. #422
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    Thanks bOb... I think it'll be just right right then. I weigh 145 lbs, maybe 150 geared up.
    How bout the rct3? Can one fine tune the compression in each of the modes?

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.
    I am about 185 or so fully geared up and I WAS running 3 tokens with the RL damper. After I swapped to the RCT3 damper and changed out the grease to Slick Honey, I noticed a pretty major adjustment in air pressures. At that point, the additional progressiveness from using 3 tokens wasn't resulting in full travel use (I was using full travel on bigger hits with 3 tokens on the RL damper). So I pulled a token, and I'm back to 2.

    With that said, I haven't had much time to ride it since I did that. It's been incredibly wet this month, so my riding is way down. Hoping to fix that this weekend.

    As for the settings, my understanding of the RCT3 damper is that the Low Speed Compression knob functions independently of the main adjustment knob.

  24. #424
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    I rode dh on my mutz with the 120 bluto this weekend. 3 tokens 75psi at 180 lbs. It was working pretty well bottoming only on big hits, until something started leaking air. Rebuild kit on the way....

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  25. #425
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    Curious if anyone is running the 100mm fork with just one token?

    I way 200 lbs and have my air set a little lower than what the chart recommends at about 120 psi. Still have about 3/4" or so of travel that is unused at the end of my rides.

    BTW, I'm really enjoying having a suspension fork. Pretty amazing.

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Curious if anyone is running the 100mm fork with just one token?

    I way 200 lbs and have my air set a little lower than what the chart recommends at about 120 psi. Still have about 3/4" or so of travel that is unused at the end of my rides.

    BTW, I'm really enjoying having a suspension fork. Pretty amazing.
    I run mine with three tokens and about 95 psi. Use all my travel and never felt a harsh bottom out.

  27. #427
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    My brand new Bluto fork was rebuilt at the end of April using Slick Honey, but I'm still getting stiction this long after. I thought it would break in or something. It has seen only a little hard riding, but it has seen lots of mud and water. Thoughts?

    I have a 2008 RS Recon on another bike. I think the oil might be just a little low as there is no resistance in the first 3-5mm of travel. Despite being undamped in that first fraction of travel, it seems to result in improved small bump absorption, which is noticeable on high-speed chatter. Does anyone do this on purpose? Leave the damping oil a little short? (at least that's what I think is going on in the Recon). It might be cool to try in the Bluto.

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  28. #428
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    Anyone have an extra token? ... and can maybe stick it in an envelope to NY?

  29. #429
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    I can PayPal couple of $$ if needed. Thanks.

  30. #430
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    Which Bluto?

    I'm about ready to swap the stock rigid fork out of my 2015 Farley 6 for a Bluto but undecided which one. I can get either the RL that seems to come with most suspension fatties or the RCT3 version. The RCT3 is about £100 more.

    Is the performance of the RCT3 that much better, or would the RL suit. I'm not a particularly aggressive rider and am about 135lbs in weight.

    Also would fitting a 120mm affect the geo much, I think the Farley 6 is corrected for a 100mm fork.

    As a comparison I run a 160mm Pike RCT3 on my regular bike

    Thanks for any input

  31. #431
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    Get the rct3. I have a revelation that I upgraded from rl to rct3 and it's a huge improvement. I'm probably going to go the same route on my bluto soon

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  32. #432
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    ^^ Thanks

    The Pike on my regular bike is the first Rockshox fork I've used for many years so have little to compare it to. Previous years I'd always run Marzocchi forks.
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  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Anyone have an extra token? ... and can maybe stick it in an envelope to NY?
    Any extra tokens laying around getting dusty anyone?

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    My brand new Bluto fork was rebuilt at the end of April using Slick Honey, but I'm still getting stiction this long after. ...
    -F
    I had put oil on the stanchions and left it sit over night with no improvement, but it has finally soaked in and smoothed out quite a bit.

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  35. #435
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    Ah hell, just posted a thread. Cliffs are that I put a 120mm bluto on my XL frame Fatboy and...well I hate the geometry now. Tried flipping the stem and dropping a spacer and just ended up pissed off halfway through my ride from having to dab every 3 minutes.

    Do I just need to get used to it, or should I go with the factory geometry consistent 80mm?

  36. #436
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    80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.

    What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?

  37. #437
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    my stock bluto 100mm suffered a reduced travel condition from (I suspect) too much pressure in negative chamber -

    that thread is here:

    bluto 100m - how much travel to really expect - and how to use sag gradient?

    My question is this - would an rct3 conversion have any risk of same issue? I don't know the internals of rct3 and have yet to read up on it.

    Stock bluto (actually stock bluto seals) are reportedly at risk for this, so borealis/turnagain offers a kit for colder temp operation.

    Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM

    I did use my bluto with stock seals in temps around -20 f back in mid-winter , so I sure could have experienced the issue - but I believe it wasn't until very recently - in summer temps of 60's to 80's that I noticed the reduced travel problem - which I have attempted to address by bleeding the negative air valve.

    Sorry if this is a repeat question/issue

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.

    What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?
    All of it. I just feel like I can't control the bike anymore even on mild chunk either unless it was going down hill, and had to basically dab constantly to the point I had no fun and just went home on the second ride.

  39. #439
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    Question/Comparison regarding the pressures for the Bluto. I'm currently running at 135 psi on the 100mm at about 190 pounds with a full backpack. Usually at 12psi on nates for the summer.

    Reading most of the Bluto threads this seems on the high side compared to what most people are running. The thing is anything lower makes me worry about bottoming out. My regular trails don't have any huge drops, but I do tend to barrel down the trail hitting small jumps ,and riding aggressively down rocks and roots. My O ring is usually close to max travel at the end of a ride.

    I really like the feel of the fork at 120 psi, but am I simply out of luck? Sometimes I worry bottoming out at 135 psi if I ever have to pass a bit bigger drop. I've only bottomed out twice.Once at 125 psi during regular trail use, and once at 135 psi involving a large foliage covered hole bringing me to an sudden abrupt stop.

    I don't want to have to go higher then 135psi.

  40. #440
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    ^^bottemless token


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  41. #441
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    Or a failed Damper...

    Quote Originally Posted by h16 View Post
    my stock bluto 100mm suffered a reduced travel condition from (I suspect) too much pressure in negative chamber -

    that thread is here:

    bluto 100m - how much travel to really expect - and how to use sag gradient?

    My question is this - would an rct3 conversion have any risk of same issue? I don't know the internals of rct3 and have yet to read up on it.

    Stock bluto (actually stock bluto seals) are reportedly at risk for this, so borealis/turnagain offers a kit for colder temp operation.

    Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM

    I did use my bluto with stock seals in temps around -20 f back in mid-winter , so I sure could have experienced the issue - but I believe it wasn't until very recently - in summer temps of 60's to 80's that I noticed the reduced travel problem - which I have attempted to address by bleeding the negative air valve.

    Sorry if this is a repeat question/issue

  42. #442
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    So, the Bluto, I have had three: 80mm, 100mm, 120mm.

    One had a failed damper in two weeks.

    Another is not holding air.

    The only one that appears to still be working is the one I sold to a buddy.

    THEY ALL HAVE STICTION!

    Two have been rebuilt and the stiction remains.

    Once a better fork comes out, the Bluto should be relegated to BD's.

    I bought a Risse Trixxy ($800) for my Fat Tandem, it's burly, it's heavy, but it will also blow away a Bluto!

  43. #443
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    Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.
    Too much compression dampening? My bluto behaves the same when locked out.


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    So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)

    The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocolatemoeze View Post
    Too much compression dampening? My bluto behaves the same when locked out.


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    It appears that the rebound damper head seal has failed. Lots of fluid drained from the lower after removing the retaining nut, but none from the upper after removing the compression damper. Too much fluid in the lower created a hydro lock situation after an inch of travel.

    Apparently not an uncommon issue with rebas, and push can replace the plastic unit with an alloy one.

    New basic rebuild kit ordered. Will change out o rings and fluids.

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)

    The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.
    What I understand is that the neg chamber is auto filled by the pos chamber, by the firts time the shock compresses.

    So, in short, the o-rings leaks to much air to the negative airchambers?

    That's bad :-( sorry i let you order those tokens then.


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  48. #448
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    Nah, I'll probably end up putting in a third token anyways. Will let me hit a better balance between pressure, and ramp. Thanks for the suggestion though!

  49. #449
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    I'll update the above as it may be useful to someone else. I pulled the lowers today and removed the compression and rebound dampers. What I found was a broken chunk of washer that had become lodged between the damper shaft and the inner oring of the seal head. This let all the oil drain into the lower, causing the hydro lock. The offending washer is the thin one on top of the rebound damper:



    I replaced the outer oring with a slightly undersized one I had lying about the house. Slapped 106ml of Mobil 1 ATF in there in lieu of fork oil, and some 75wt synthetic in the lowers. Reassembled, and everything seems to be holding. Fork is smooth, but I don't think the rebound damper is working ATM, since the broken washer exposes an open passage in the damper head. If I replaced the washer, I should be golden.
    I run my rebound damping at the minimum(fastest) setting anyhow, so it's really not a huge adjustment for me. FWIW. YMMV.

  50. #450
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    Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.

    Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?

    Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....

    https://vid.me/BL1K

    Bluto Tuning Thread-image.jpg

  51. #451
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    I don't think the damping in the bluto is at all great, but I'd guess that any 100mm fork would blow through its travel on a drop like that.


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  52. #452
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    Failed damper.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.

  53. #453
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    Yup, hydraulic lock, tends to be progressive, you will find yourself gradually reducing air pressure to adjust for decreasing sag, then one day you'll notice you are no longer using all of your suspension.

    I'm sure it could happen on the air side also, but it would not create a loss of travel as significant as a damper failure. Not to mention, if you have air leakage, you got a bad seal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    It appears that the rebound damper head seal has failed. Lots of fluid drained from the lower after removing the retaining nut, but none from the upper after removing the compression damper. Too much fluid in the lower created a hydro lock situation after an inch of travel.

    Apparently not an uncommon issue with rebas, and push can replace the plastic unit with an alloy one.

    New basic rebuild kit ordered. Will change out o rings and fluids.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.

    Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?

    Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....

    https://vid.me/BL1K

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The Mobil ATF is allegedly around 7.5wt, though it doesn't have an actual claimed weight. I've got all of one ride on the stuff. It is rare for me to finish a ride with travel left, but noticed I had most of an inch left after this one. Notable because I hit a fairly heavy staircase drop(maybe four feet to flat concrete), two jump spots(medium tables/gaps with a couple overshoots to flat), and popped a lot of lips around town. Normally the indicator would be topped out. I tried slamming the fork with my full weight repeatedly, but couldn't quite bottom it.

    I am on a standard bluto rl with 120mm travel, but the fluid change appears to have increased bottom out resistance, and the fork feels super smooth up top. I was getting amazing pop of the jumps, but my rebound issues may be affecting that.

    People report having great success with this stuff, and say it doesn't break down over time as fork oil will. I'll prolly be sticking with it. FTR, I'm 200# and prefer a relatively firm setup, so YMMV. I have stock tokens and run my fork @ 140psi.

  55. #455
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    Just FWIW, I noticed on my ride yesterday that I had a rather hard "bottom out" of my Bluto on the trail. Checked travel and I hadn't used more than about 65mm. Surprised I hadn't noticed any trouble before. But today, I started troubleshooting. Released air from the negative spring. No difference. Emptied positive air chamber, no change. Started working on the damper side, accidentally compressed the fork too much before I got the damper loosened, and the control rod and two steel bearings shot out, and I got a faceful of suspension fluid. Damn. Managed to find the little balls in my very messy workshop, amazingly enough. Heard one hit the tile and tracked it down quickly enough. Couldn't find the other at first, but started retracing events and found the second right underneath the bike. Thankfully, the spring stayed put inside the rod.

    It shot out a good bit of fluid, so I didn't bother removing more. Put everything back together and tested it out, and I managed to get full travel.

    I guess I had too much fluid in the damper side, but IIRC, I was getting full travel when I first did the damper swap, too. Not sure what changed. Thankfully it wasn't a difficult fix. Ran through the damper settings and the lockout still works, so I didn't remove too much fluid. Now for a ride tomorrow.

  56. #456
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    Coil in Bluto

    Did you ever try the u-turn style coil in the Bluto? Been thinking of trying that too.

    [QUOTE=
    At some point i'd really like to get my hands on a old school u-turn spring for shits and giggles to ditch the air side and not have to worry about loosing air in the cold temps[/QUOTE]

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by CurtP View Post
    Pyrex Griffin beakers are ±5% and are cheap. Class A "to deliver" graduated cylinders cost more, but are more accurate. The Pyrex 2023-100 100ml is ±0.5ml, about the same as a buret (but nowhere near as cool). The graduations on the plastic 100ml syringe I bought were nowhere close.


    IIRC, using the oil height method requires measuring from the crown race seat, not from the top of the stanchion tube. It's a PITA to measure with a crown race installed and why from there instead of the stanchion tube is beyond me.
    Just curious, where did you read that the oil height is measured from the crown race seat? That would be a silly way to measure and no fork , MTB or dirtbike I have ever worked on has been measured that way. The manual states -
    "Oil height measurements are taken from the top of the crown surface above the upper tube to the oil."
    I take this as the top of the crown just above the threaded portion of the stanchion tubes

  58. #458
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    I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).

    Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).

    Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.
    I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. On an earlier visit he told me the negative air migration usually occurs on hard compression, like a bottom out, or close to a bottom out.

    This is completely a design flaw in the Bluto, and will only get much worse in the winter months as the O-rings contract. They've essential designed a faulty summer fork for an all-season bike that is expected to be ridden in the winter. Unfortunately I only have two options left, I now have to call and complain to RockShock directly, about my negative air migration issues, or in the end cough up the dough to change the O-rings.

    I asked the shop mechanic if I simply rode the fork hard till it completely lost pressure in the winter, would they cover it then, and he said they'd most likely just tell them to release the air from the negative and pump it back up.

    Its like you design a car who's suspension is only meant for warm climates, and then come and sell it in Canada with no changes what so ever, and play dumb when the suspensions fail. I understand this is a very niche product, but when we pay premiums for niche products, its with the understanding that they're properly designed for that niche.

    All in all I know eventually I'll probably buy the O-rings myself, but I really wish everyone with a Bluto would call and complain. I always try and stay positive, but sometimes if feels like the bike industry is really just doing everything they can to reinforce the image of overpriced alloy and plastic that breaks 4 months in.

    The real kicker would be if the newer RCT3 version of the Bluto has thicker O-rings, be nice if that comparison could be done. Then we'd known if either they simply don't care or are trying to play dumb with first gen Bluto owners. Really wish there was some kind of competition in the FatBike Suspension Fork space, might force some actual changes/improvements.

  60. #460
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    This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.

  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.
    Nope, even in its current state, I'd take the bluto over any rigid fork without a second thought. The Bluto really turns your fatty into an all-season, all terrain shredder. The stability of a fat tire paired with a suspension is amazing.

  62. #462
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    I'm on the fence - I like rigid and suspension both.
    I may wait for the next gen fork and see if I'm convinced about this.

    That said I'm no newb, my first suspension fork was the Rock Shox Mag21 in the 90's, and if by this time the forks are still having these kinds of teething troubles and reliability issues...well like I said there's a lot to be said for rigid, all season, pretty much all terrain to boot.
    We shall see, but I appreciate your input.

  63. #463
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    I want an MRP fat Stage fork!!

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by l3eaudacious View Post
    I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. .
    This can't be right, just can't believe it! For example, some Volvo's had a Renault motor. So, analogue to Rock Shox, you have to buy a new motor yourself when it breaks!

    So yeah i would call Rock Shox indeed and give them hell if above is true.



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  65. #465
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    Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?
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  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?
    Nope. Fork spec'd on bike - no extra o-rings, crush washers, etc.
    I would advise not taking my advice.

  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?
    Bluto came as part of the frameset, so no box/parts. Don't know if extra's come in the regular Bluto box. But it wouldn't make a difference, they'd be faulty as well. The problem isn't my specific O-rings, the problem is the type of O-rings Rock Shox chose to use in the Bluto. They're faulty for summer use, and not dependable for winter conditions without having to constantly worry about Negative air migration.

    The after market O-ring winter kit wasn't even made to prevent negative air migration. It was made to prevent total air loss in cold conditions, due to the O-rings just letting all the air escape under compression in cold conditions. They're supposedly made from a different compound that doesn't contract like the existing Rock Shox O-rings. Fixing the negative air migration during summer use is just a side-effect of the O-rings also being the proper thickness.

  68. #468
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    This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.
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  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHICKS View Post
    This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.
    I don't think the swap requires the 4 tokens but you'll want them for bottom out resistance. I have a few on hand, PM me if you're interested.

  70. #470
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    Thanks, I'll let you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShredMaster View Post
    I don't think the swap requires the 4 tokens but you'll want them for bottom out resistance. I have a few on hand, PM me if you're interested.
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  71. #471
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    Yes, you need a new air shaft, however the use of tokens is dependent on the ride quality. Tokens take up volume so the compression ramps up faster while preserving small bump compression, so you can have sensitivity without bottoming out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHICKS View Post
    This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.

  72. #472
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    I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.

    I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?

    I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.

    I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out.

    The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!

  73. #473
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    If you want to keep the original bottom headset, you'll need a new crown race with 45 degree (the one on your carbon fork is glued to it so no way to get it off and swap) (I didn't find it alone so had to buy one bottom headset and use the crown race) Then just insert it on the fork, a little grease, put the fork back in and go!

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  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by 03'Darin View Post
    I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.

    I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?

    I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.

    I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out.

    The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!

    I think you are talking about the crown race on the fork. Assuming you are keeping the same headset then yes you want to take it off the old fork and install it on the new one. Your local bike shop will have tools for this and will charge you a minimal fee for it. Just be aware those are an interference fit and even with the proper tools they can be damaged during removal so you might end up replacing it. My suggestion would be to just spend a few bucks for a new one to put on your new fork so if you ever want to put the rigid fork back on you can. Since you are probably going to have your local shop build the wheel up just have them put a new crown race on the Bluto for a few bucks more

  75. #475
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    FYI if you are installing a Bluto on a Fatboy SE, they use a split crown race so you can easily reuse it without tools. Just slide it off and put it on the new fork.
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  76. #476
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    For everyone looking to shorten there 120mm Bluto Solo air, this might prove helpful RED5 had great success with using a spacer made from PVC pipe Lowered Totem Solo air...

  77. #477
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    That won't work, as there are different ways of balancing the positive and negative chamber on Bluto and Totem. Putting in a topout spacer will prevent the solo air balancing the chambers.

  78. #478
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    friend of mine would like to upgrade his bluto to RCT3 damper. he just needs to purchase the 'pike' RCT3 damper right? no other parts needed? has it been determined what the correct oil volume is? And a related question -- I've seen a post saying 'factory bluto RCT3' but SRAM's website still only shows the RL version....?

  79. #479
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    Not the pike damper. It's the SID damper. You can either get the RCT3 damper (older style) or if you want the dig valve, you need to get a the newer RCT3 damper and rebound shaft.

  80. #480
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    I did a quick 9 mile ride this morning before work. !st ride out with my new 120 Bluto on the Fatboy. After going through this thread a few times I decided on adding two pucks and starting out at 90 PSI. I'm probably about180 geared up. I also dropped the stem one spacer from the factory setup. Here are my initial thoughts.

    - I had no issue what so ever with a light front end on steep climbs
    - Steering response is a slight bit lazy compared to the stock ridged setup but not a problem at all
    - I ran 10 PSI up front compared to around 6 or 7 rigid so pretty much all of the self steer was gone.
    - Small bump compliance was good, didn't bottom out but also didn't have any bigger hits. I'm going to play with pressure slightly
    - Didn't even check the factory rebound setting and it seemed very good.
    - No stiction issue at all
    - Realized I can motor through the rock gardens pretty fast with the fork so I now need to up the rear tire pressure a bit to protect the rim

    I'm pretty much a set and forget kind of rider. Reading this thread seems to have helped me find the setting I need for the terrain I ride and my riding style. I'll play with pressure slightly but it felt so good I may realize my starting pressure is where I need to be.

    As I read this fork completely transforms this bike. If you're on the fence as I was, don't wait any longer to do this upgrade. Each day you wait is another day you'll miss out on all the benefits of this fork. Merlin Cycles is selling the 120 Bluto right now for $386 shipped. That's what put me over the edge. Thanks Merlin!!

  81. #481
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    Help - my bluto is sticky.

    It appears to be sticking on the bushing. It was sticky so I rebuilt the fork thinking maybe the foam rings needed more lube (they did), but when I put the lowers back on, i noticed that it still sticks quite a bit even before the push rods for the air spring or the compression/rebound damper are even engaged. There are two bushings in each leg that make contact with the upper legs. I was concerned that maybe I didn't properly lube these, so I took the fork apart again. I visually inspected the inside of the lowers and didn't see anything that would make me concerned, and I saw oil from the open bath had coated the inside of the legs including the bushings.

    I looked at the uppers and they look ok, too. However could they be bent? or could my bushings be damaged? or and I just missing something obvious. (i am really hoping I am just a dumass, and somebody will say - do this and it will be butter smooth.)

    Thoughts?

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by krapper View Post
    Help - my bluto is sticky.

    It appears to be sticking on the bushing. It was sticky so I rebuilt the fork thinking maybe the foam rings needed more lube (they did), but when I put the lowers back on, i noticed that it still sticks quite a bit even before the push rods for the air spring or the compression/rebound damper are even engaged. There are two bushings in each leg that make contact with the upper legs. I was concerned that maybe I didn't properly lube these, so I took the fork apart again. I visually inspected the inside of the lowers and didn't see anything that would make me concerned, and I saw oil from the open bath had coated the inside of the legs including the bushings.

    I looked at the uppers and they look ok, too. However could they be bent? or could my bushings be damaged? or and I just missing something obvious. (i am really hoping I am just a dumass, and somebody will say - do this and it will be butter smooth.)

    Thoughts?
    Did you notice if the inside of dust seals had grease? If they were dry and you didn't re-grease them I could see that being source of stiction. I use slick honey on the seals when servicing the lowers.

  83. #483
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    How many miles/hours are on said Bluto?

  84. #484
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    @ kwarwick - I did grease the seals. I was out of slick honey, so I used so lithium grease I had available. I plan to rebuild before the season with the ETR kit, so I wasn't too concerned as I only used the lithium grease on the seals. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't think so as it seems really stiff when I first engage the lower bushing with the uppers when reassembling the fork. Prior to that when the wipers are fully wrapped around the uppers, it moves smoothly.

    The reason I was taking the fork apart because it hadn't been performing well. I had determined that the first thing I needed to address was the fact that I had air trapped in the lower. I determined that because when I let all of the air out and I still had a fully extended fork that would rebound.

    @bdundee. I rode on it from last november. 3-4 hours/week in the winter. Less starting in May. So maybe 75 hours? I rebuilt it once in February because it was very sluggish in cold weather. I didn't do the ETR, but I rebuilt with slick honey. That helped.

    It's working much better after the recent rebuild. I got the trapped air out and I made sure I had 5 ml of oil in each leg. I used RS 15 wt. But its not supper smooth. I still get a bunch of stiction compared to my reba xx. I don't expect it to be xx calibur, but really the difference should be in damper. I know the reba is dual air, and the bluto is solo - so the springs are not the same, but I wouldn't expect a solo air to be sticky.

    I may just have to rebuild again with the ETR kit and make sure I SRAM butter the heck out of everything.

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by krapper View Post
    @ kwarwick - I did grease the seals. I was out of slick honey, so I used so lithium grease I had available. I plan to rebuild before the season with the ETR kit, so I wasn't too concerned as I only used the lithium grease on the seals. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't think so as it seems really stiff when I first engage the lower bushing with the uppers when reassembling the fork. Prior to that when the wipers are fully wrapped around the uppers, it moves smoothly.

    The reason I was taking the fork apart because it hadn't been performing well. I had determined that the first thing I needed to address was the fact that I had air trapped in the lower. I determined that because when I let all of the air out and I still had a fully extended fork that would rebound.

    @bdundee. I rode on it from last november. 3-4 hours/week in the winter. Less starting in May. So maybe 75 hours? I rebuilt it once in February because it was very sluggish in cold weather. I didn't do the ETR, but I rebuilt with slick honey. That helped.

    It's working much better after the recent rebuild. I got the trapped air out and I made sure I had 5 ml of oil in each leg. I used RS 15 wt. But its not supper smooth. I still get a bunch of stiction compared to my reba xx. I don't expect it to be xx calibur, but really the difference should be in damper. I know the reba is dual air, and the bluto is solo - so the springs are not the same, but I wouldn't expect a solo air to be sticky.

    I may just have to rebuild again with the ETR kit and make sure I SRAM butter the heck out of everything.
    Hmmmm... tough call. I know my first Bluto RL seemed pretty sticky too... never took it apart to figure out why as I ended up replacing it with a newer RCT3 model. The RCT3 seems better, but still not as smooth as my other RCT3 forks (Revelation, SID).

    I think that some of the perceived stiction might be due to the tires on a fat bike, having so much more air volume and less pressure, tend to compress a lot before the shock is forced to move. This inertia makes it seems like the fork is stickier.... just a theory.

  86. #486
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    Have any of you had issues with the QR? I have a Salsa Hub with QR and noticed today when I would rotate the QR to release the axle, nothing happens, it just spins (QR)
    Funny thing is the fork was just brought in for a tune up to my LBS and now I'm having issues with the QR. Talk about BS!!
    Besides taken it back to the LBS, what else can I do to release the axle?

  87. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash04 View Post
    Have any of you had issues with the QR? I have a Salsa Hub with QR and noticed today when I would rotate the QR to release the axle, nothing happens, it just spins (QR)
    Funny thing is the fork was just brought in for a tune up to my LBS and now I'm having issues with the QR. Talk about BS!!
    Besides taken it back to the LBS, what else can I do to release the axle?
    Make sure the QR is engaging the notch in the end cap of the maxel. The notch is big and hard to miss. It's the notch that turns the threads of the TA, not the QR. The QR will spin freely.

    Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goE_1tOiljE

    Also I found quite a bit searching for Maxel removal.

  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    Hmmmm... tough call. I know my first Bluto RL seemed pretty sticky too... never took it apart to figure out why as I ended up replacing it with a newer RCT3 model. The RCT3 seems better, but still not as smooth as my other RCT3 forks (Revelation, SID).

    I think that some of the perceived stiction might be due to the tires on a fat bike, having so much more air volume and less pressure, tend to compress a lot before the shock is forced to move. This inertia makes it seems like the fork is stickier.... just a theory.
    Well I rode 10 miles off road today. This is the first chance I have had to get the fork on some dirt. It works much better. There is still some stiction, but it is much less now than before, and seems less after riding than before. I think riding helped distribute the oil in the open bath. Or maybe its all in my head?

    Thanks for the quick replies. I am still going to do the ETR kit for this winter. Hopefully this will prevent the air lock I experienced.

  89. #489
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    Duh! Talk about feeling like a Dumb Ass, guess that what happens when you get older...you forget!! LMAO Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by krapper View Post
    Make sure the QR is engaging the notch in the end cap of the maxel. The notch is big and hard to miss. It's the notch that turns the threads of the TA, not the QR. The QR will spin freely.

    Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goE_1tOiljE

    Also I found quite a bit searching for Maxel removal.

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvan View Post
    Just curious, where did you read that the oil height is measured from the crown race seat? That would be a silly way to measure and no fork , MTB or dirtbike I have ever worked on has been measured that way. The manual states -
    "Oil height measurements are taken from the top of the crown surface above the upper tube to the oil."
    I take this as the top of the crown just above the threaded portion of the stanchion tubes
    I think you're right - somehow I interpreted it to be from the fork crown race seat. I probably thought that because the fork crown isn't even all the way around. I went by volume, but now may go back and take a height measurement.

  91. #491
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    I know this sounds pretty crazy, but has anyone put bottle mounts on a bluto?

  92. #492
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    Have to use hose clamps to fasten them on. Bike packers and other tourers have done this to suspension forks for years.

  93. #493
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    OK, I've had 2 Blutos now and had the same issue on both, they both worked fine at first, but then after a VERY short time air apparently migrated into either the neg air chamber or the lowers, causing the fork to stick a little when first compressed but then drop to about 1/2 travel with NO real increase in linear force application.

    From what I'm reading flipping through this thread, it's that RS just messed up and undersized the O-rings? Not riding in the cold, just 70 and sunny in San Diego. Love the Bluto when it's working fine but honestly RS should have recalled these POS's.... aside from this issue the fork performs fine. Bought the one fork as OEM from Bikesdirect.com so I'm a little leery of the PITA it will probably be to have my LBS warranty it for me- I'd rather just fix it myself- especially since I bought the 2nd fork used. Should the Turnagin Orings solve the issue? Thanks!

  94. #494
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    Both my brother and myself have the Bluto 100mm both pumped up to 120psi. On mine the sag is about 17% but when I push down hard on the bars I can get the red ring to go to the top, but when I get on my brothers bike sag is around 30% and I can't get the red ring to move to the top.
    Any ideas why 2 Bluto's set up the same would be performing so differently?

  95. #495
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    You have air in the outer legs. This needs venting

  96. #496
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    The one that bottoms out more easily?

  97. #497
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    Paying $55 for three o-rings, two crush-washers and some lube - makes me wonder what exactly I'm supposed to be using the lube for.

    I suspect all they did was spec alternative material o-rings (viton VS buna) or something similar.

    Turnagin - sorry, but @ $55, I'm not going to be using your lube.

  98. #498
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    So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by hssp View Post
    You have air in the outer legs. This needs venting
    How do you do that?

  100. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    How do you do that?
    Let air out of fork, compress it (if there is air in it it should be hard to push down the last bit) Insert pointy end of zip tie between seal and stanchion to let excess air out.

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