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  1. #301
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    I have the RTC3 along with the dig valve but could take it or leave it........my other Bluto just has the oil wt change with the slick honey and I really don't notice a difference

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat907 View Post
    I have the RTC3 along with the dig valve but could take it or leave it........my other Bluto just has the oil wt change with the slick honey and I really don't notice a difference
    Reb with dig valve - probably yes, but I do like RCT3 comp damper more than the regular Bluto damper.
    Last edited by villho; 02-26-2015 at 11:39 AM.

  3. #303
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    Just picked up the RCT3 for my Bluto. Is it just a straight damper swap or do I need to make an adjustment to the fluid level? Thanks
    Laziness Breeds Efficiency

  4. #304
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    Should be same fluid level, but some fluid will come out with your old damper, so it's worth checking the depth/ volume before you put the RCT3 in.
    "There are two kinds of mountain bikers in the world: those who are faster than me, and me."

  5. #305
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    If one doesn't have a proper measure to check the liquid level, a quick method to test the correct fluid level is this:
    - If you are able to lock the fork, you should have enough fluid (and vice versa: if it doesn't lock, you might miss some fluid. Note here, there have been cases that playing around with the damper has caused the shim stack to move so that the lock-up doesn't work well)
    - And when you have the damper in the fork and also the "nut ring" for lock-up lever tightened, but no air in yet, you can try to push the fork in carefully. If you are able to bottom out the fork, you know that you dont have too much liquid (and vice versa: if the fork doesn't bottom, but stops before that, you might have too much liquid).

  6. #306
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    Just started dialing in my Bluto after the LBS took it from 800mm to 120mm, found some instant problems. When I air it up for my weight, I can barley get it compress 1 inch when I put my full weight on it. When I back the air pressure down to 50lbs, it drops down very similar to the 80mm range and I can get some travel through the range. When I let the air out, I was unable to extend the fork, and felt a strong pull to compress the fork. This could only be overcome by adding 100-120 lbs and then I had no travel. I suspect that the LBS may have done something amiss during the install of the 120mm airtube, or I am a complete idiot. Any suggestions would be truly appreciated.
    Thanks!

  7. #307
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    Sound like the same ole trouble of to much air in the negative side. Read through the thread and it will explain how to fix this problem. Worth a shot it only takes a couple of minutes to try it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Guzzi Obrian View Post
    Just started dialing in my Bluto after the LBS took it from 800mm to 120mm, found some instant problems. When I air it up for my weight, I can barley get it compress 1 inch when I put my full weight on it. When I back the air pressure down to 50lbs, it drops down very similar to the 80mm range and I can get some travel through the range. When I let the air out, I was unable to extend the fork, and felt a strong pull to compress the fork. This could only be overcome by adding 100-120 lbs and then I had no travel. I suspect that the LBS may have done something amiss during the install of the 120mm airtube, or I am a complete idiot. Any suggestions would be truly appreciated.
    Thanks!
    Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.

    Last weekend I took mine apart and cleaned off the gooey, sticky red grease and lubed it up with Slick Honey. I also added 1 token for a total of 3 in a 100mm Bluto so I could run lower pressure but still have good bottoming resistance. Awesome improvement! I didn't change the oil in the other side since it's new and will be warming up soon. Maybe next winter.

    BTW, I have 3 tokens left over. PM me if anyone wants them.

  9. #309
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    Re: Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chriskmurray View Post
    Be sure to play with the air tokens, if you are not getting full travel try removing a token. The more tokens you have in the air side of your fork the more the air spring ramps up through the travel.

    Also if you are really picky about your suspension, you can actually run the RCT3 damper in the Bluto over the stock damper. You will have to play around to find the right oil volumes though.
    Apparently, there is Bluto RCT3 coming. But as I'm new to rockshox, what is the difference between between the current damper and the RCT3 damper?

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  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.

  11. #311
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    Thanks,
    And I will do some reading, appreciate the help. Is this a recurring problem, once I release the pressure from the bottom, should I expect it to gradually return to the same problem? Solutions for this? I ride in SoCal so I do not experience much cold, and the LBS said they did got with the slick honey on mine, Thanks again for your input.
    Cheers,

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.
    You're right but you're always going to have people who won't read through 13 or however many pages to get the info they're looking for. I was feeling generous. ....

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Guzzi Obrian View Post
    Thanks,
    And I will do some reading, appreciate the help. Is this a recurring problem, once I release the pressure from the bottom, should I expect it to gradually return to the same problem? Solutions for this? I ride in SoCal so I do not experience much cold, and the LBS said they did got with the slick honey on mine, Thanks again for your input.
    Cheers,
    I'm no expert, but from reading this thread it seems to be a cold related issue. Usually doesn't recur.
    I'm surprised it happened to you since the fork was just serviced. Did you try the fix yet? If it doesn't work I'd take it back to the LBS.

  14. #314
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    Just released the pressure from the bottom, worked very well, now have full travel with 20% sag set up. The reading really helped clarify what the issue was. Thanks again!

  15. #315
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    This is one thread that is worth a read through for sure, good stuff inside!!

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.
    I received a new 120mm fork that had air in the neg. chamber. It seemed to function normally, but at 100mm travel.
    Would purposely adding air to the neg. chamber be a viable way to adjust travel? (not sure how one would do it on purpose, though)

    -F
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I received a new 120mm fork that had air in the neg. chamber. It seemed to function normally, but at 100mm travel.
    Would purposely adding air to the neg. chamber be a viable way to adjust travel? (not sure how one would do it on purpose, though)

    -F
    You can't add air to the negative chamber you can only remove it. So that was actually what was wrong with your fork?

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.
    Because the thread has a whole lot of fluff, so the "answers" are a pain to find. A little FAQ would be helful, esp since the Bluto is the only "decent" fork we have so far. Sure, they could use search, but it's so generic...

    For my part, I ride an 80mm Bluto stock with four tokens, typically run 115psi, I weigh 200#, this seems to work well for me, I don't generally bottom the fork, but I use most of the travel when I ride dirt. My Bluto is stock, works fine, no stiction, holds air when cold, only issue is loss of pressure when I go from a warm garage to a cold ride.

    The key is to air up the fork and tires at the trail

    On a hard tail, I don't know that having 120mm of travel would be all that worthwhile, esp with fat tires, seems like 80-100mm is the sweet spot.

    I'm building a Mutz, that bike will get a Bluto 120mm to match the 120mm Cane In Line, it will be running 650b+ much of the year, so not a true fat except in the dead of winter.

    I'm also building a Jefe tandem fat, it'll be getting a Bluto 100mm, likely running four tokens due to the extra weight from two riders. Since this is a "heavy use" for the Bluto, I'll be looking to upgrade when the "pluto" makes it's debut.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Because the thread has a whole lot of fluff, so the "answers" are a pain to find.
    Nope a hint on where to find it should be enough, shouldn't have to go into full detail on every other page. I dig through threads all the time for research and 13 pages isn't a lot.

  20. #320
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    Maybe I'm not picky, but I've never had to mess with my Bluto. I have the 120mm version, added to tokens since I was bottoming out alot, and just ride. warm, cold, snow mud, it just works and I'm happy. I ride my fatbike like an aggressive all-mountain hardtail though, so my results my be different than people who do snowy xc rides.

    I ride a lot of rough, jumps and drops and I wouldnt want anything less than 120mm. To me 80mm for anything more than groomed snow and gravel roads would suck,. If Rockshox releases a Pike based version in the 150mm range I'd be all over that!
    14 Aurum, 16 Fuse, 17 T130

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.
    Because different people frequently offer a different perspective on things; sometime even a few new tricks to solve a problem. In regards to the same question, I am interested to hear the various answers, and I usually I learn something from each of the various answers.

    You are not required to answer the "same questions" if you don't want to.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by borgey007 View Post
    Because different people frequently offer a different perspective on things; sometime even a few new tricks to solve a problem. In regards to the same question, I am interested to hear the various answers, and I usually I learn something from each of the various answers.

    You are not required to answer the "same questions" if you don't want to.
    This wasn't about different perspectives it was instructions on how to relieve the air pressure in the negative chamber. Keep quoting something and the original reason it was said kinda goes away and one can twist it in any direction you want.

    Edit: and if you would have been paying attention you will notice I said to look back in the thread to learn about this. If one would do this they would also learn more about why this is happening and other peoples experience with the same problem. Instead they just got told how to fix it.

  23. #323
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    You nailed it Bob......I for one would like to know why the problem exists not just the cure

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    You can't add air to the negative chamber you can only remove it. So that was actually what was wrong with your fork?
    Yes. Thanks for the tip! Bikesdirect CS quoted the method from this thread. That's how the internet should be used.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  25. #325
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    I assume if my bottom tube fills up fairly frequently, I have a scratch on my air tube allowing the pressurized air to migrate to the bottom? If this is a weekly excersize, do you suggest I take it back to the LBS for a check over as they did the 120 upgrade. or is this normal.
    Great thread, this and reading the Bluto tech manual and I really have a good understanding of how this sucker works now. I just don't want to goon it myself while the LBS is on the hook for the upgrade to 120mm
    One of the most beneficial threads I've come across here.
    Thanks,

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Guzzi Obrian View Post
    I assume if my bottom tube fills up fairly frequently, I have a scratch on my air tube allowing the pressurized air to migrate to the bottom? If this is a weekly excersize, do you suggest I take it back to the LBS for a check over as they did the 120 upgrade. or is this normal.
    Great thread, this and reading the Bluto tech manual and I really have a good understanding of how this sucker works now. I just don't want to goon it myself while the LBS is on the hook for the upgrade to 120mm
    One of the most beneficial threads I've come across here.
    Thanks,
    If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.
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  27. #327
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    Spent a good bit of time talking to SRAM guys at NAHBS about tuning my Bluto. Going to pick up some tokens so I can mess with the volume a bit, and will possibly make the change to the RCT3 damper once things dry out and I can really put it through its paces. FWIW, I was told that not too far into the future (possibly sometime in 2015 or later for the 2016MY), all Blutos will come with the RCT3 damper.

  28. #328
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by majack View Post
    If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.
    Umm.... wth? A solo-air fork (such as Bluto) is supposed to work exactly in that manner that the air which rider puts to the fork, gets automatically balanced to the bottom. It's not a fault, it's a feature - positive and negative should always have the same pressure in tjese forks.

    Problems start to occur when too much air gets to the bottom, but doesn't balance back (due to too sticky oem grease). And for that issue this thread gives a working solution.

  29. #329
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    Bluto Tuning Thread

    FWIW, I read somewhere that the equalization doesn't occur until after the fork returns to the top of the travel (and crosses a ridge) - obviously, if it never returns to the top, it never equalizes. Not exactly sure how all of the forces play out as I haven't studied all of the internals, but that seemed to make sense (and has affected others using the Reba which has a similar construction).


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  30. #330
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    Curious for those that went from 120 to 100/110/90/80 on their Bluto by replacing the air shaft how much fluid you had to replace. I just swapped mine out and I would say that less than a bottle cap came out of each side of the fork.

    Thx

  31. #331
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    5ml of 15wt per leg.

    It's in the service manual

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    Curious for those that went from 120 to 100/110/90/80 on their Bluto by replacing the air shaft how much fluid you had to replace. I just swapped mine out and I would say that less than a bottle cap came out of each side of the fork.

    Thx
    Was it difficult to change the travel from 120 to a lower one? I'm thinking about doing it but am worried about how difficult it would be.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBoothe View Post
    5ml of 15wt per leg.

    It's in the service manual

    Yep - saw that. Also curious if anyone else had little to no oil in their fork.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Negotiator50 View Post
    Was it difficult to change the travel from 120 to a lower one? I'm thinking about doing it but am worried about how difficult it would be.
    Nah - hardest part is finding fork oil locally. Took all of 20 minutes to complete

  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    Nah - hardest part is finding fork oil locally. Took all of 20 minutes to complete
    I just used some 15wt Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil I had in the garage.

  36. #336
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    One of the easiest forks I have ever taken apart.................

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel6 View Post
    Yep - saw that. Also curious if anyone else had little to no oil in their fork.
    I usually always take new forks apart just to make sure there is the right amount of oil in them.

    However.....I did not do this with my Bluto....but it has been working fine. I will take it apart in the next few weeks to change fluids and check things out.

    A friend got a Bluto and complained that it blew through travel and the lock out wouldn't work. I opened it up and it was low on oil.. Once brought up to specs....it works fine.

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by majack View Post
    If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by villho View Post
    Umm.... wth? A solo-air fork (such as Bluto) is supposed to work exactly in that manner that the air which rider puts to the fork, gets automatically balanced to the bottom. It's not a fault, it's a feature - positive and negative should always have the same pressure in tjese forks.

    Problems start to occur when too much air gets to the bottom, but doesn't balance back (due to too sticky oem grease). And for that issue this thread gives a working solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins17 View Post
    FWIW, I read somewhere that the equalization doesn't occur until after the fork returns to the top of the travel (and crosses a ridge) - obviously, if it never returns to the top, it never equalizes. Not exactly sure how all of the forces play out as I haven't studied all of the internals, but that seemed to make sense (and has affected others using the Reba which has a similar construction).


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    So if my fork keeps creeping down under normal use, but not losing air from the top chamber, it's pretty much no good then?
    It was brand new. 2nd ride.
    I let my sister ride my fatbike today on the bike path. 2 hrs. later the fork was bottomed out. When I got home I checked the top air pressure. It had dropped from maybe 105psi to 95psi, but it was bottomed out to the stops. I relieved the pressure out the bottom and it popped right up. It wasn't even cold outside.
    I need RochShox service, don't I? I swear, it should be no surprise why I mainly ride rigid.

    -F
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  39. #339
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    I'd try taking it apart, cleaning the red stock gooey grease off the air spring and inside the fork and lubing it up good with Slick Honey. Worth a try.

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by not2shabby View Post
    I'd try taking it apart, cleaning the red stock gooey grease off the air spring and inside the fork and lubing it up good with Slick Honey. Worth a try.
    I finally read this entire thread. The pressure seeping to the negative chamber is NOT entirely temperature dependent. It is more likely a factor of the gooey red grease clogging things up.

    I may just squirt a thimbleful of alcohol or WD-40 down there to see if that cuts the grease a little. With my luck, if I took my fork apart it would end up with dog hair in it or something.

    -F
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  41. #341
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    Great thread with lots of good info.
    I ordered a 100mm Bluto for my Carbon Beargrease and was wondering what else I would need to do the conversion. Should I get the Hawk kit with hub spacers and brake caliper mount? or is there a better way of doing it. Also will I need to change anything from the current headset that comes on the Beargrease?

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Great thread with lots of good info.
    I ordered a 100mm Bluto for my Carbon Beargrease and was wondering what else I would need to do the conversion. Should I get the Hawk kit with hub spacers and brake caliper mount? or is there a better way of doing it. Also will I need to change anything from the current headset that comes on the Beargrease?
    If your current hub is 135mm, then the Hauck kit is the cheapest way to go. You'll have to run a 180mm disc though. If your current fork is a 1 1/2 to 1 1/8 taper you could remove the crown race from it and put it on the Bluto. Probably easier to just get a new one. They're only about $10. You'll need a hacksaw or tube cutter to cut the Bluto steerer tube to length also. Measure 10 times, cut once!

    Edit: Doesn't your bike already have a 150mm hub?

  43. #343
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    No, they have a 142 through axle hub.

  44. #344
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    Will I need a crown race setting tool?

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Will I need a crown race setting tool?
    Depends on your crown race. Split race and no need for any tool.

  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    No, they have a 142 through axle hub.
    I assume it's 135mm with the end caps removed? If so, then the Hauck spacers will work.
    I just used a piece of pvc pipe and carefully tapped the race on the Bluto.
    Salsa hub, right?

  47. #347
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    Yes Salsa hub.

  48. #348
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    You should be good to go then. You can get the Hauck kit on ebay for $40. Disc adapter included.

  49. #349
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    Slick honey...who'd of thunk? It's a completely different fork now. Why do they use that red sticky crap in the first place? I really like my Bluto now. Totally worth the time.

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by watermonkey View Post
    Slick honey...who'd of thunk? It's a completely different fork now. Why do they use that red sticky crap in the first place? I really like my Bluto now. Totally worth the time.
    Yuppers!!

  51. #351
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    I have a quick question and haven't been able to find a definitive answer by searching.
    On my Bluto 100mm, The first 2 or 3mm of travel, I have very little resistance. They everything acts as normal. I have read this is normal because of the air piston, but also that the fork my be low on oil.

    So is it normal and if not, what should I be looking at?

  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    So if my fork keeps creeping down under normal use, but not losing air from the top chamber, it's pretty much no good then?
    It was brand new. 2nd ride.
    I let my sister ride my fatbike today on the bike path. 2 hrs. later the fork was bottomed out. When I got home I checked the top air pressure. It had dropped from maybe 105psi to 95psi, but it was bottomed out to the stops. I relieved the pressure out the bottom and it popped right up. It wasn't even cold outside.
    I need RochShox service, don't I? I swear, it should be no surprise why I mainly ride rigid.

    -F
    I refused to work on a brand new fork so my shop handled it with RockShox.
    My fork ended up with new air guts. The parts were free, but not the service (thanks, RS).
    There was not an excessive amount of red grease in it, and it had never been exposed to sub-zero (F) temps, yet it never worked right.
    Laying new next to "old" they appeared to be the same.

    The fork "works" now, but I will likely fiddle with some tokens to prevent blowing through the travel.



    As far as that oil question, I think it's the air that holds up your fork, not the oil. My fork seems to have almost like freeplay in that first 3mm or so as well.

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  53. #353
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    After reading this whole thread, i have decided to swap to the rct3 damper and change the grease to slick honey while I am at it. I have a big jug of 7.5wt shock oil already so I will use that instead of the 5wt stuff.

    Parts are on order so I will probably do the work next week. It is supposed to be a stormy week.

    What sealed the deal for me was the discussion about stiction making it tough to set sag correctly. Decided i might as well swap the damper if I'm gonna take the fork apart and replace the grease.

  54. #354
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    The stiction was bothering me but I didn't want to pull the fork apart until the dampers came back in stock.

    Instead I pulled the air cap off and put a little 20 weight Fox black gold stanchion lube oil in. It mixed with the grease to make a slurry that is slowly seeping past the seals to the lube the bottom. I put some slick honey on the volume reducers figuring it'll get knocked off from riding and drop onto the piston from time to time.

    Its now working well enough that I decided not to do the damper upgrade.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    After reading this whole thread, i have decided to swap to the rct3 damper and change the grease to slick honey while I am at it. I have a big jug of 7.5wt shock oil already so I will use that instead of the 5wt stuff.

    Parts are on order so I will probably do the work next week. It is supposed to be a stormy week.

    What sealed the deal for me was the discussion about stiction making it tough to set sag correctly. Decided i might as well swap the damper if I'm gonna take the fork apart and replace the grease.
    Sounds like a plan. Any thoughts on where a dude can find the most accurate installation guide to pull this off? Does Rock Shox have decent download manuals on their site or should I YouTube it? Have had good luck with my ol X-fusion rebuild, mainly thanks to accurate tech manuals and customer support....not so sure about RS though. If you have time, could you plz post up your rebuild here later? Would love to get the most out of my Bluto and this sounds like the way to go!
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  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    T

    Sounds like a plan. Any thoughts on where a dude can find the most accurate installation guide to pull this off? Does Rock Shox have decent download manuals on their site or should I YouTube it? Have had good luck with my ol X-fusion rebuild, mainly thanks to accurate tech manuals and customer support....not so sure about RS though. If you have time, could you plz post up your rebuild here later? Would love to get the most out of my Bluto and this sounds like the way to go!
    https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...to_reba_sm.pdf

    First page of the discussion has a link to the manual. It's pretty detailed. Aside from the specifics related to each damper, everything else seems to be the same. General suggestion seems to be to slightly overfill the oil when reinstalling, and remove little by little until the damper works correctly. But the specific amounts seem to line up exactly the same as the instructions say for the RL damper. As for the grease, the instructions cover how to clean off the old, and where to put the new. If you've done fork service before, it shouldn't be a problem. I've done Fox forks before when changing the wipers/seals to Enduro ones. Speaking of which, it's time to do that to my old Fox on my other mtb again.

  57. #357
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    About to dive into my Bluto this afternoon. Couldn't find any crush washers in quantities less than 50, so I'm going to replace the seals, wipers, and all that while I'm at it (using the kit that came with my Bluto) so I can use the crush washers in the kit.

    FWIW, I was talking to some SRAM reps last night at the shop and one of them mentioned that switching to Slick Honey shortens the service interval on the Bluto, but that lots of employees at their local office do just that with their RS forks. Also, a local shop owner I talked to today uses Slick Honey in his, and has since he bought his Bluto.

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    So, from reading this whole thread...I don't really want a Bluto anymore?

    Sucks because I have to decide what ~$600 to spend upgrading a Fatboy before I order it this weekend...but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with suspension a ton...

    Are people expecting more "set and forget" options down the road?

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    So, from reading this whole thread...I don't really want a Bluto anymore?

    Sucks because I have to decide what ~$600 to spend upgrading a Fatboy before I order it this weekend...but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with suspension a ton...

    Are people expecting more "set and forget" options down the road?
    I hear tell that for 2016, the Bluto will come with the RCT3 damper stock...or will at least come in a version that includes it.

    The people doing lots of fiddling are picky about performance. A lot of people probably wouldn't care about some of the stuff people here are working on tuning out.

    The tuning options on RS forks are actually a good thing. People can get it how they like it.

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    Gotcha. So I guess there's some benefit to waiting. Maybe I was just fabricating an air of frustration rather than an air of extreme iterative enthusiasm :P.

  61. #361
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    I ride my Fatboy real aggressive on trails, and I have zero complaints about the Bluto. Add a couple tokens, get the pressure right (like any fork) and it is a great fork. With a huge tire up front it doesnt even need to be as smooth feeling as a Pike, it just needs to work. Not sure what all the complaining is about.
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    Sweet.

    So from your perspective as a bluto owner, if I'm picking up a stock Fatboy SE and have around 600-700 to put into it (financing, might as well lump it in for 0% interest and I'd budgeted for the base fatboy which I don't want really) should I just grab the Bluto along with the bike and wait on the rest (besides tubeless)?

    My wife is cool with me trickling money into stuff over time, but large purchases are harder to sell and I won't want to regret not going bluto. So I could conceivably just hang onto it and pick up a 150mm hub a few weeks later even...

    If I didn't go bluto I was thinking of putting the money into front/rear surly Buds (our trails are very often slick or muddy here because of frequent rain), a new lightweight seatpost and saddle, 1x10 with big rear chainrings (lots of steep crap here), and shimano brakes and rotors. Not sure if Bluto and Tubeless off the bat would be better, then trickle that other stuff in.

  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    About to dive into my Bluto this afternoon. Couldn't find any crush washers in quantities less than 50, so I'm going to replace the seals, wipers, and all that while I'm at it (using the kit that came with my Bluto) so I can use the crush washers in the kit.

    FWIW, I was talking to some SRAM reps last night at the shop and one of them mentioned that switching to Slick Honey shortens the service interval on the Bluto, but that lots of employees at their local office do just that with their RS forks. Also, a local shop owner I talked to today uses Slick Honey in his, and has since he bought his Bluto.
    Funny I just took my 2016 Fox 34 and I am 99% sure they are using Slick Honey on the air shaft and the service interval is now longer on the Fox than the RS I believe.
    Edit: oh and on a side note I had a little of the red damper fluid in my lower when I serviced mine this morning.

  64. #364
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    A bluto is by far the best upgrade I've done to my fatboy. It now has a dropper, tubeless, 1x drive train and SLX brakes and rotors, but Id take the Bluto over all that.
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  65. #365
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    I recently put a Bluto on my Beargrease and it was like getting a whole new bike.

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Funny I just took my 2016 Fox 34 and I am 99% sure they are using Slick Honey on the air shaft and the service interval is now longer on the Fox than the RS I believe.
    Edit: oh and on a side note I had a little of the red damper fluid in my lower when I serviced mine this morning.
    The guy I spoke to wasn't a suspension tech, so there's that. Also, he specifically said 25hr instead of 50hr, which after looking at the manual, is pretty much just a fluid change. Considering that the recommended service intervals are usually pretty conservative anyway, I'm not worried.
    Last edited by Harold; 05-29-2015 at 08:23 PM.

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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    I recently put a Bluto on my Beargrease and it was like getting a whole new bike.
    Definitely agree with this. I have the Bluto on my dropper equipped Beargrease XX1 and it makes it a much better summer trail bike.

    My next move is to try a 29+ wheelset on the Beargrease/Bluto combo.

  68. #368
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    Well, hell, I'm convinced. As much as I hate to do it...

    Now if I can just figure out if there's a 135mm thru hub I can use with adapters to have fork flexibility to go rigid or bluto with the same wheel... (planning on split tubeless).

  69. #369
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    2 buddies and I all thought the same thing, but once you get the Bluto, you lose all desire to go back to rigid!
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    How much travel did you all get?

    Of course part of me wants the 120mm since I feel like I can back it down if I need to. My only worry with that is the abundant uphill switchbacks around here....

    But I also have a monstercross bike if I want cross country geo and small tires! I'm 6'4" and 250 though so it's not the coziest ride.

    I'm going to feel real goofy if I blow the accessory budget on the bluto and leave the horrible mechanicals on there...but I guess I can hold out until my birthday for better brakes!

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    Well, I ended up heading over to the LBS at lunch. Ordered the 120 RL.

  72. #372
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    Finished everything up this evening and got the new settings to a starting point. Very intriguing that by changing the damper, changing the grease, and using 7.5wt oil instead of 5wt oil, I'm using 70psi to get 20% sag, whereas previously, I was using 100psi. I have 3 tokens installed, and have been using 3 tokens for awhile. I did not change the number of tokens when I changed the damper.

    Just in the yard, small bump compliance is WAY nicer. Very pleased with the results.

    FWIW, the language in the tech docs can be a little misleading. When choosing the oil volume for the damper side, I used the oil height instead of volume. I don't have a good way to directly measure oil volume. The syringe I was using is old and the volume marks are worn off. I have a small tape measure that has a metric scale, so that was easier. I measured 75mm using the tape as a dipstick. Which directly measures the HEIGHT OF THE OIL in the fork. The damper wasn't doing anything. I racked my brain all day on this. I watched a bunch of vids, and I saw an older one where the RockShox tech measured the oil in a big graduated cylinder.

    So I figured out how to do the volume. My Stans syringe is a 100mL volume. I wasn't going to measure fork oil with it, but I measured out some water. I squirted that water into a glass jar and marked the level with a sharpie. I poured out the water, and then dried the jar thoroughly.

    Then, I used my little fork oil syringe to pull the oil out of the fork and place it into the jar. Not even half as much oil as I needed (106mL according to the docs). So I got more oil, and filled the jar to the mark I made. Then I transferred that oil to the fork. Voila, the damper works!

    Curious, I figured I'd measure the amount of empty space inside the fork. It didn't really coincide with the 71-77mm measurement, either, so I'm not quite sure what the doc is referring to. Going by volume is the way to go.

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  73. #373
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    Nate did you take a good measurement after you had the 106ml in?

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Nate did you take a good measurement after you had the 106ml in?
    I probably should have done a good dipstick measurement of the oil level, too, but I did not. I just checked the space to the top, and it was in the ~50mL neighborhood. It was hard to get an accurate measurement because it was hard to see when my measuring tape began to touch the top of the oil.

    At the time, I was more interested in finding out if the damper would finally work, as I've probably installed and removed the thing over a dozen times since yesterday fiddling with and checking the oil level.

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post

    At the time, I was more interested in finding out if the damper would finally work, as I've probably installed and removed the thing over a dozen times since yesterday fiddling with and checking the oil level.
    Boy have I been there, do you get a very firm lockout now?

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Boy have I been there, do you get a very firm lockout now?
    Yep. The "pedal" setting is noticeably different, but still firmer than the "open" setting.

    It's probably a little firmer than I typically like, to be honest. I'll probably use THAT setting for long, grinding climbs and keep it open mostly otherwise. I'll be fiddling with the low speed adjustment a bit to see what I like on the trail.

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    So I figured out how to do the volume. My Stans syringe is a 100mL volume. I wasn't going to measure fork oil with it, but I measured out some water. I squirted that water into a glass jar and marked the level with a sharpie. I poured out the water, and then dried the jar thoroughly.

    Then, I used my little fork oil syringe to pull the oil out of the fork and place it into the jar. Not even half as much oil as I needed (106mL according to the docs). So I got more oil, and filled the jar to the mark I made. Then I transferred that oil to the fork. Voila, the damper works!Name:  oilheight.png
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    Great write up on this man! ^^^^
    Based on your experiment and testing of the final rebuild....how much oil do you estimate was needed for the damper? Seems to me the RS manuals are off a bit and you found the actual amount (less than 1/2 of 106ml) stated in their docs. Like you, I've been setting the sag around 20-25 % with 90-105 psi and not the best small bump compliance with stock and no tokens installed yet. Hope to pull her apart this fall and do it right. Also, would you recommend Enduro Seals for the replacement? Used them before, but the kit does not come with an upper foam seal that absorbs the oil and keeps the uppers lubed. Instead, they come without it and recommend using stancion oil frequently to keep em from sticking. Worked fine, but not sure if its best for the Bluto. Thnx!
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    Pyrex Griffin beakers are ±5% and are cheap. Class A "to deliver" graduated cylinders cost more, but are more accurate. The Pyrex 2023-100 100ml is ±0.5ml, about the same as a buret (but nowhere near as cool). The graduations on the plastic 100ml syringe I bought were nowhere close.


    IIRC, using the oil height method requires measuring from the crown race seat, not from the top of the stanchion tube. It's a PITA to measure with a crown race installed and why from there instead of the stanchion tube is beyond me.
    Last edited by CurtP; 05-31-2015 at 08:55 AM.

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Great write up on this man! ^^^^
    Based on your experiment and testing of the final rebuild....how much oil do you estimate was needed for the damper? Seems to me the RS manuals are off a bit and you found the actual amount (less than 1/2 of 106ml) stated in their docs. Like you, I've been setting the sag around 20-25 % with 90-105 psi and not the best small bump compliance with stock and no tokens installed yet. Hope to pull her apart this fall and do it right. Also, would you recommend Enduro Seals for the replacement? Used them before, but the kit does not come with an upper foam seal that absorbs the oil and keeps the uppers lubed. Instead, they come without it and recommend using stancion oil frequently to keep em from sticking. Worked fine, but not sure if its best for the Bluto. Thnx!
    I used the extra seal kit that came with my Bluto. It has the foam washers and the wipers have little pockets for grease to keep things well lubricated. The stock seals/wipers work fine for me so far.

    I did run across this, and I'm intrigued by the concept.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...6/the-sentinel

    As for how much oil, I think you misunderstood me. I used 106mL, as stated in the documents. Going by "oil height" measured with the dipstick method resulted in far too little oil. Less than half of the required 106mL.

  80. #380
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    How does the Bluto dampening effect interact with the cushioning you get from the fat tires? Does the Bluto negate it, work with it or is there no difference versus rigid? Do you keep your tires at the same psi with a Bluto? Thanks for any info.
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  81. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by soarftb View Post
    How does the Bluto dampening effect interact with the cushioning you get from the fat tires? Does the Bluto negate it, work with it or is there no difference versus rigid? Do you keep your tires at the same psi with a Bluto? Thanks for any info.
    The idea behind suspension on a fatbike is that it negates some of the bouncing you get from fat tires. I have a Bucksaw, so I get that benefit both front and rear. So it adds to the cushion you get from fat tires, while also negating some of the negatives you get from fat tires.

    I never owned a rigid fatbike so I can't say much regarding tire pressures before and after. I can say that at higher pressures, the bouncing of fat tires in tech terrain can suck on a rigid bike, and is part of why rigid fatbike riders will ride pressures so low, even in summer. I have settled on about 9-9.5 psi for hardpack conditions with suspension. I can haul on the downhills without any self steer, but have enough cush for the bumps.

    FWIW, I had installed a 3rd token in my Bluto prior to my damper upgrade. I think I'm going to pull that token back out, and go back to 2 tokens. I'm getting absolutely fantastic small bump compliance, but full travel isn't really there for me when I have bigger hits, even with the fork fully opened up.

  82. #382
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    So curious, I just bought a bike with a Bluto on it, and it is my first suspension fork. Until now I've always run rigid forks.

    I do all of my own service on my bikes, but reading the Bluto service manual, it's way different than anything I've ever done.

    Out of the box, is there anything that is totally necessary to ensure a functional and long lasting fork?

  83. #383
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    One tip: wipe the stanchions down after every ride. You don't want to let some grit scratch the seals.

  84. #384
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    Bluto is a really simple fork, watch a couple of Youtubes videos on how to service them to get an idea of their internals.

    But mainly just make sure you have the right air pressure for your weight, and the rebound is set correctly, other than that, ride ride ride!
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  85. #385
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    What rebound setting should I have my Bluto set at? I'm 200 pounds and have the 100mm.

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    It's personal preference but obviously having it maxed out on slow or fast can be pretty gnarly if riding hard.

    Think i have mine 4 clicks from the slow setting.
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    Ok thanks, I have mine at 3 clicks from slow. Was just wondering about ballpark setting to start from, I know so many that buy their bike and what ever setting it's at from the factory they leave it at that thinking it's good to go.

  88. #388
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    Overall i don't notice my Bluto while riding which is great because that means it's working well.

    From the factory it was maxed out rebound on fast setting haha, it was a pogo stick!
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  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    What rebound setting should I have my Bluto set at? I'm 200 pounds and have the 100mm.
    You need to figure that out for yourself. Depends too much on your preferences, your riding style, and where you ride. I have mine set at 4 clicks from the fast setting.

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    How much travel did you all get?

    Of course part of me wants the 120mm since I feel like I can back it down if I need to. My only worry with that is the abundant uphill switchbacks around here....

    But I also have a monstercross bike if I want cross country geo and small tires! I'm 6'4" and 250 though so it's not the coziest ride.

    I'm going to feel real goofy if I blow the accessory budget on the bluto and leave the horrible mechanicals on there...but I guess I can hold out until my birthday for better brakes!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow_Thyroid_Bike View Post
    Well, I ended up heading over to the LBS at lunch. Ordered the 120 RL.
    the Fatboy Pro comes stock with a an 80 MM travel Bluto....120 is going to feel a lot more slack, will raise the front end a bunch, and may void your frame warranty....

    The Geo will definitely feel different.
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    Thanks for the info guys. For the hell of it I asked my favorite bike shop for their opinion and they did say to check the oil levels in the fork before riding it.

    Is there an easy way to do this without taking the entire fork apart and pouring the oil out to see how much is in there? Or am I missing something?

    Thanks!

  92. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Thanks for the info guys. For the hell of it I asked my favorite bike shop for their opinion and they did say to check the oil levels in the fork before riding it.

    Is there an easy way to do this without taking the entire fork apart and pouring the oil out to see how much is in there? Or am I missing something?

    Thanks!
    Use a big syringe with graduated markings. Or, a small one and transfer the fluid to a container with appropriate markings. But yeah, you have to take it apart to check fluid levels.

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    After watching a video on the Reba fork and reading the Bluto manual 4 times, I think I have it figured out. I bought me some oil and a tube of Slick Honey, and a fork syringe with a long tube.

    Doesn't look that hard but if there's a way to screw it up I'll find it so be prepared for a lot of questions!

    I'm figuring on not having to take everything apart. Just remove the top caps, pull the compression damper out and pull the rebound damper down right? The air side looks easy enough to just pull out, wipe down, and regrease.

    Pardon me if I'm still missing something.

  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    After watching a video on the Reba fork and reading the Bluto manual 4 times, I think I have it figured out. I bought me some oil and a tube of Slick Honey, and a fork syringe with a long tube.

    Doesn't look that hard but if there's a way to screw it up I'll find it so be prepared for a lot of questions!

    I'm figuring on not having to take everything apart. Just remove the top caps, pull the compression damper out and pull the rebound damper down right? The air side looks easy enough to just pull out, wipe down, and regrease.

    Pardon me if I'm still missing something.
    If all you want to do is check the damper fluid level, then all you need to do is pull the right side top cap and measure the fluid. Keep in mind, however, that there is also a little fluid in the bottom of each leg, and you won't be able to check it this way. In fact, I don't think you can "just check" the amounts of that oil without draining it and replacing it.

    Also, if you're talking about replacing the grease, you will probably want to pull the air shaft and the rebound shaft, because those items are also greased. And for doing the grease, you can't even replace the grease on the wipers unless you pull the lowers off (and drain the fluid in the bottom of the lowers). And at that point, you might as well pull the air shaft and the rebound shaft because you've already done 3/4 of the work.

    I was pretty hesitant the first time I pulled apart a fork (a 2003 Fox Float RL). It was unfamiliar, but not difficult. I think the Bluto is actually a bit easier in some respects. Just keep things clean, and be careful not to nick or damage anything that slides or seals.

  95. #395
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    Thanks for the info. My biggest concern as you mentioned is nicking or scratching something important. I'm pretty confident in being able to pull it all apart and line everything back up.

    The air side looks easier and I had planned to totally take that apart.

    The oil side looked like I'd be able to just depress the rebound damper all the way and dump the oil out, but if I'm tearing it apart I might as well go all the way.

    I pretty much figured on dumping all the oil and just replacing it with the correct amount so I know that it's at the right level.

  96. #396
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    Stupid question, if I'm taking the fork apart, do I need to replace the o rings seeing as how they've all been compressed already?
    Last edited by Shinkers; 06-16-2015 at 10:04 PM.

  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Stupid question, if I'm taking the fork apart, do I need to replace the o rings seeing as how they've all been compressed already?
    If it's a new bike/shock, then no. I rode my new Bluto for a few rides and then tore it down and removed the red goo they call grease and lubed it back up with Slick Honey and reused the original parts. The fork came with a rebuild kit, but I saved that for when it needs it.

  98. #398
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    Okay. It is a new bike.

  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkers View Post
    Okay. It is a new bike.
    I debated on it for mine. I probably didn't HAVE to, but I wanted to make sure I assembled it exactly correctly, with new crush washers. I cracked into the included seal kit for the crush washers, and figured I'd go ahead and replace all the o-rings anyway, since I had put about 400mi on the fork already.

  100. #400
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    I probably had less than 30 miles on mine.

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