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  1. #1
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    Bike mag XX1 "hack"

    I'm glad to see this kind of stuff happening in the magazines - there's too little hacking going on in general with bikes. I think fat bikes are an exception, there seems to be a lot more of it here.

    The SRAM XX1 Hack

  2. #2
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    That is great, I have seen the General lee conversion for XG 1050/1070 but this one is simple. I have been running 1X10 and wondering why no companies have made other cassettes for 10sp. A 38-11 or 40-12 would be nice.

  3. #3
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    Yes, I'm using a single ring with a 36t rear cassette. Holy crap, I should get some kind of award for figuring this out. Everyone knows it's impossible to climb hills though on a 36t, because 10 years ago we were using 32t and 10 years before that 28-30.

    It gets better though, I figured out that when I installed the XX1 crankset, I could take off the front derailleur AND the front shifter.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  4. #4
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    My point being that its unusual for a bike mag to endorse hacking. Yes people do it, but I can't recall it ever being covered before. Now the Bikemag hack is interesting, but the key to it is those cranks, which few people will just have just sitting around (and if you can afford those cranks you're probably going to run the real thing, not hack.

  5. #5
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    I'm holding out for the Wolf Tooth version.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Now the Bikemag hack is interesting, but the key to it is those cranks, which few people will just have just sitting around (and if you can afford those cranks you're probably going to run the real thing, not hack.
    The Next cranks are not key at all, dude. There are plenty of narrow/wide chainring options for just about any crank on the market. Or just run a chain guide.

  7. #7
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    I was speaking about getting the weight savings, but you're right in operation there are many options.

  8. #8
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    I've heard you can run tubeless without UST? Is this true?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  9. #9
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    hahahaha

  10. #10
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    After seeing how well some XX1 bikes work I opted to get a Race Face + XX1 setup for my new bike instead of hacking 10speed parts. I was buying new parts either way. If I already had 10 speed parts I would have tried the hack.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I've heard you can run tubeless without UST? Is this true?
    Yes. It's also true that you can hack a Walmart fatbike into a trail-worthy machine by replacing all of the parts, including the frame.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Yes. It's also true that you can hack a Walmart fatbike into a trail-worthy machine by replacing all of the parts, including the frame.
    That's the key to the hack. Some people they get the XX1 drivetrain, the carbon wheels and Chris King parts, but they forget the final step in the hack is to replace the frame and fork. If you go all the way it's amazing you get a fully pimped ultra fatty for only the cost of a fully pimped ultra fatty + a walmart bike!!! Cunning!
    Safe riding,

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  13. #13
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    I was riding with a guy who frequents a nearby LBS (its a really good shop, but I never go there - just a proximity thing) and he said "you're running tubeless on that fat bike right, because the LBS said it wasn't possible, they want to know how you did it". I let him in on my "secret".

  14. #14
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    Re: Bike mag XX1 "hack"

    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    ...but the key to it is those cranks...
    Not really...lots of SRAM cranks (down to X7 level) can run spiderless rings down to 26teeth.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I was riding with a guy who frequents a nearby LBS (its a really good shop, but I never go there - just a proximity thing) and he said "you're running tubeless on that fat bike right, because the LBS said it wasn't possible, they want to know how you did it". I let him in on my "secret".
    Interestingly a friend of mine who runs a high end bike shop has stopped doing ghetto tubeless setups for customers after a couple deaths in the area where he lives. Front tire ghetto tubeless failures at speed apparently.
    Safe riding,

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  16. #16
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    I guess that's a key component of any hack - a higher likelihood of failure and then who is responsible for the failure? A couple of friends have asked me to help them with split tube tubeless on their rigs, I already feel responsible for any flats and/or burping they may experience.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I guess that's a key component of any hack - a higher likelihood of failure and then who is responsible for the failure? A couple of friends have asked me to help them with split tube tubeless on their rigs, I already feel responsible for any flats and/or burping they may experience.
    That's my friend's take - the liability from setting up a ghetto tubeless wheel is too high for it to make sense for him as a business.
    Safe riding,

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  18. #18
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    Well...

    I find it hard to get excited about a single cog costing $100, ESPECIALLY when it's a consumable. I cringe at paying $50 for an HG61 12-36 now!
    Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
    - John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Interestingly a friend of mine who runs a high end bike shop has stopped doing ghetto tubeless setups for customers after a couple deaths in the area where he lives. Front tire ghetto tubeless failures at speed apparently.
    Deaths!?!
    As someone who's been thinking about going tubeless for the last 3 years or so, I'd be interested in hearing more about that.

  20. #20
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    I've been riding split tube tubeless for at least five years and have never had a failure that was dangerous in any way. Plenty of burps and torn sidewalls, some at speed on my 29er, but it is just a flat tire. I certainly have had tubes go flat just as quickly. Not sure how fast you would have to be moving for a flat tire to be dangerous? I guess if you somehow pushed the bead off the rim completely it would flat very quickly, but still, the rim is still round (for a few rotations anyway). I guess it _could_ be dangerous, but...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Not sure how fast you would have to be moving for a flat tire to be dangerous?
    We ride high speed rocky trails that could be deadly with a tire failure all the time. Mountain bikes with suspension can reach some high speeds.

    My two friends that have ghetto tubeless setups have both had failures - none at high speeds happily.

    I think the split tube method is more secure than a lot of ghetto setups I have seen. That's the one I would use on my Krampus.
    Safe riding,

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Not sure how fast you would have to be moving for a flat tire to be dangerous?
    while speed can play a factor it's not always an ingredient to be dangerous so remove it from the equation and there's a host of variables that can lead to disaster @ any given moment whilst your having a great ol time then suddenly..........BAM off the trail and dead on hit with mr redwood..

  23. #23
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    Well, I think this post was about gearing or something

    Been riding the Wolftooth GC as a tester. Very impressed with the shifting. I replaced the 15 and 17 tooth cogs with a 16. Shifting down on the 16 is not as great, but the GC shifts better than all my other XT cogs. First couple of shifts I initially thought it had not shifted at all, until I realized it was easier to pedal, it was that smooth. The 36-42 jump is perfect. I cannot see wanting a 40T.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

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  24. #24
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    What size ring do you run up front?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    What size ring do you run up front?
    32T. FYI, not a scratch from the GC on my alloy hub body.
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  26. #26
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    This is actually OT from my original post, I was mostly commenting (or meant to comment on) the hacking aspect, not so much the gearing, but now that we're here I'm thinking I can get away with a 28 direct mount up front and a regular 11-36 in the back and have plenty of range. I can always swap to a 30 or 32 up front if I need to.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    32T. FYI, not a scratch from the GC on my alloy hub body.
    Sorry if I missed an obvious reference earlier, but what's "GC" an acronym for? I assume it's equivalent to the cassette cog referenced in the Bike mag piece, right?

  28. #28
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    Re: Bike mag XX1 "hack"

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Interestingly a friend of mine who runs a high end bike shop has stopped doing ghetto tubeless setups for customers after a couple deaths in the area where he lives. Front tire ghetto tubeless failures at speed apparently.
    Ghetto tubeless deaths. That sounds like a video on worldstar.

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  29. #29
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    Logantri - enough testing already, give them the two thumbs up and tell them to fire up the CNC machine! I'm waiting patiently...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logantri View Post
    32T. FYI, not a scratch from the GC on my alloy hub body.
    Is the GC steel?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonlikesbikes View Post
    Sorry if I missed an obvious reference earlier, but what's "GC" an acronym for? I assume it's equivalent to the cassette cog referenced in the Bike mag piece, right?
    Wolf Tooth is coming out with their version of the same thing, called Giant Cog.

  32. #32
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    Alloy.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    Not sure how fast you would have to be moving for a flat tire to be dangerous?
    I once had a front tube blow when I hopped a curb going about 5 mph, flipped over the handlebars, and broke my collarbone.

  34. #34
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    I heard you can use a 1.125 fork in a tapered headtube?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I heard you can use a 1.125 fork in a tapered headtube?
    Of course - duh! Just wrap the lower part of the steerer with duct tape until it fits!
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  36. #36
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    I would also be interested to hear more (ok, let me level with you: I don't believe anyone died). A mountain biking death of *any kind* is usually newsworthy. Links?

    The "my friend's buddy said" stuff is always sketchy, and people have been doing ghetto/old style tubeless for at least a decade now. If it was that dangerous I'd think we'd have heard a lot about it.

    That's not to say there might be some liability involved for a shop doing this kind of conversion with non-tubeless tires/parts, of course. I am just very dubious that anyone has died, let alone multiple people in one "area".

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Deaths!?!
    As someone who's been thinking about going tubeless for the last 3 years or so, I'd be interested in hearing more about that.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I would also be interested to hear more (ok, let me level with you: I don't believe anyone died). A mountain biking death of *any kind* is usually newsworthy. Links?

    The "my friend's buddy said" stuff is always sketchy, and people have been doing ghetto/old style tubeless for at least a decade now. If it was that dangerous I'd think we'd have heard a lot about it.

    That's not to say there might be some liability involved for a shop doing this kind of conversion with non-tubeless tires/parts, of course. I am just very dubious that anyone has died, let alone multiple people in one "area".

    -Walt

    My buddy is a bike shop owner and the area is Arizona. That two people could die mountain biking in AZ over the course of a year is not something that shocks me personally. My friend is plugged into the industry pretty well so I am also not surprised he would know about anything dramatic like this that happened in the state that would affect everyone who sells, works on or rents bikes - he does all three.

    This news article talks about two deaths...the first death if you look into it was tire related.

    Mountain biker dies during ride - second fatality since February - Phoenix mountain biking | Examiner.com

    Oner of the Google results for the accident...

    Just got some more info from the mtbr forum...

    "The man who died is Ron Cadiente. You might know his son, Brett Cadiente, from the MBAA races and, like his dad, is an all around good guy. The family is still finalizing funeral details and I will post those when they are available.

    Brett has been aware of the level of interest and compassion from members on this forum. I am sure that it gives some level of comfort to his family to know that there were not only people who did everything they could to save their husband and dad, but that there are so many others who are keeping them in their thoughts and prayers."

    and

    "though the final was cardiac arrest, I think it was one of those that was triggered by the event. The tire was off the wheel and wrapped up in the fork, they do suspect the tire coming off the bead & getting tangled up that caused the crash, and I can only assume that the impact triggered the heart problem. "
    Since I live in the PNW I don't know if this was one of the incidents that my friend was referring to, but the timing is right for when we talked about it.

    I watched a friend crash pretty hard when his ghetto tubeless front tire gave up its air. This was in the forest so the damage to his body wasn't severe as speeds were lower and the ground was soft.

    My own take on all this is not to avoid tubeless or even ghetto tubeless when it's necessary, but I do take the setup process very seriously. I've seen lots of cavalier attitudes about tubeless setup as if the fact it holds air in the driveway demonstrates fitness for use and laughing off burps and problems on the trail since they usually don't have a deadly consequence.

    From my buddy's point of view it makes total sense to me to avoid big liability for a service that has hard to predict results and for which you don't earn a lot of $$.
    Last edited by vikb; 01-25-2014 at 02:19 PM.
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  38. #38
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    - I agree with the original poster; you don't always see a bike mag posting on hacks, but this is good.......Bike Mag put out an article a few weeks back about how expensive it is to have a quality ride, and by posting another article on how to hack a drive-train to get the same effect as a $1200 drive-train, well, they got my attention.....I'll certainly be looking for the post-ride review since this is right down my lower-income alley......
    29er Ti SS Rigid / 29er SC Tallboy AL

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_chrome View Post
    I'll certainly be looking for the post-ride review since this is right down my lower-income alley......
    Here you go:

    OneUp 42 Tooth Cog: Hands On - NSMB.com Mountain Bike Reviews, News, Photo and Video
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  40. #40
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    Not to keep going OT on the tubeless kick, but if I were riding downhill crazy stuff where the risk of a high speed crash increases dramatically, there would be nothing on my bike....or anywhere close to my bike that would be nicknamed ghetto. Either legit parts/methods, or I don't ride dat son-a-b!tch.

    I think it is cool that people are experimenting, and am all I favor of innovation.

  41. #41
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    Wrong thread. Thanks Jon.

  42. #42
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    Wrong thread smoove

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Wrong thread smoove
    As they say on the MacDonald commercial WHAAAT? The thread's title is Bike mag XX1 "hack" not tubeless Tuesday, keep threads on topic and don't repeat existing threads ---use search!!!!!!!!
    BBB (big beautiful bike)

  44. #44
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    Okay - back on topic...this thread lacks pictures!







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  45. #45
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    Safe riding,

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  46. #46
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    you single ring guys must not like to go downhill really fast. not tall enough gears to rip the downhills.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim208 View Post
    you single ring guys must not like to go downhill really fast. not tall enough gears to rip the downhills.
    I don't ride trails that are smooth enough or straight enough to pedal on the downhills.
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  48. #48
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    Bike mag XX1 "hack"

    Amen to that

    Too busy absorbing the hits and drops to even pedal.


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  49. #49
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    I don't have big rings on any of my mountain bikes and I can't recall ever missing it on a ride. My concern with going to a single ring has to do with not getting the low gears for smooth pedaling in snow. The above hack maintains your low side gearing and still gets you the 42 tooth for that low gearing.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jisch View Post
    I don't have big rings on any of my mountain bikes and I can't recall ever missing it on a ride. My concern with going to a single ring has to do with not getting the low gears for smooth pedaling in snow. The above hack maintains your low side gearing and still gets you the 42 tooth for that low gearing.
    Realizing that people did just fine a few years ago on 22t front rings and 32t rear cogs, the problem is not the gearing of a 30t front ring setup with a 36t rear ring, or a 28t sram xx1 front ring coupled with a 36t rear. You are getting some pretty damn low gearing already. It's in your head. (but the above "hack" will make it mentally possible for people now too).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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