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  1. #1
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    Best rear hub to build with.

    If price is not an issue what is strongest/best Hub to go with on a custom build 27.5 - TA going to use Jackelope rim. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Strongest engagement? Low POE DT Swiss probably, the lower the POE, the more material is behind the teeth of the ratchet and that's an awesome mechanism for putting power down. Otherwise, most hub shells are not significantly different. Most other freehub mechanisms are not very different. Price is good on the DT 350 vs the other higher end options too. I have hope hubs too, they are good, easy to service and punch out the bearings, but a little heavier and the drive mechanism won't be as strong.

  3. #3
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    I hear a bunch of buzz about Onyx.
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  4. #4
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    I've been running hope hubs for 10+ years, no issues or complaints.
    If it wasn't for the fancy colors of Hope (& price, find at CRC for$218), then I'd consider DT Swiss for sure.
    Last edited by Shark; 02-04-2017 at 08:01 PM.

  5. #5
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    Onyx so when some nerd with loud i9s rolls by you can look down on them condescendingly and make snide remarks about them being poor.*








    *I'm poor too. I bought my hubs with my wife's money.

  6. #6
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    Onyx are very nice. They are smooth, instant engagement and silent, plus the company is awesome to deal with. They helped me out in a jam caused by a sram cassette.

    I have had hope and I9. Meh

    Second choice is DT Swiss, great hub for the money

  7. #7
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    Onyx is the best hub if price is not a consideration. The new lightweight driver is worth considering, more $$, but less weight. I have had three sets of 177/150 Onyx hubs, building #4 now. Once you go Onyx, only poverty will make you ride a lesser hub

    DT Swiss with high POE is good hub for the price.

  8. #8
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    I just looked at the pricing on the Onyx hubs. They look really nice but dear god the price ,,,,,




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  9. #9
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    I'm pushing 265, and do loaded touring on DT Swiss hubs.

    I've broken lots of stuff. I can't break these.

    They don't have the loud buzz of the Hadley/I9/King/Onyx, and they look pretty plain, but they're pretty damn bomb-proof.
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  10. #10
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    Best rear hub to build with.

    Quote Originally Posted by schnee View Post

    They don't have the loud buzz of the Hadley/I9/King/Onyx, and they look pretty plain, but they're pretty damn bomb-proof.
    Onyx hubs are silent.


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    Last edited by racefit; 02-05-2017 at 09:04 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by racefit View Post
    Onyx hubs are silent.
    Huh. I could have sworn someone was making jokes about them being intimidatingly buzzy. Anyway, I stand corrected.
    Yamaguchi Cross • YT Jeffsy • Salsa Mukluk & Vaya • Canyon Commuter

  12. #12
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    Onyx are amazing hubs, immediate engagement, only a unicycle is quicker.

    Silent, so quiet, and talk about spin, oh yah.

    They are expensive, but you get what you pay for.

  13. #13
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    the instant engagement of onyx hubs really sounds nice to me. I've developed an appreciation for quick engagement in recent years.

    But I've also developed an appreciation for loud hubs on narrow, twisty trails with poor sight lines.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    the instant engagement of onyx hubs really sounds nice to me. I've developed an appreciation for quick engagement in recent years.

    But I've also developed an appreciation for loud hubs on narrow, twisty trails with poor sight lines.
    I have to agree, when hikers hear my hubs, they are generally standing off to the side before I ever get near them. No surprises.
    Also good for large animals

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    the instant engagement of onyx hubs really sounds nice to me. I've developed an appreciation for quick engagement in recent years.

    But I've also developed an appreciation for loud hubs on narrow, twisty trails with poor sight lines.
    My buddy placed a small brass bell on the shift cable and it jingles continuously when his bike is on the move. Kinda nice and makes a pleasant sound. Always know where Tuck's at! I need to search for a couple of em cause they aren't obnoxious and are polite.
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  16. #16
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    Onyx hups have a springy feel I can't get along with. Yes they are instant, but I would not consider that engagement very positive.

    The new project 321 with the magnetic paws at least deserve a mention here. 1.5° engagement is as good as instant. The hub is rebuildable including the drive ring.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  17. #17
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    Do those 321's require a mortgage to purchase like Onyx/I9?? How bout colors?
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  18. #18
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    Colors and machining may well be the best of the best...they are gorgeous. Pricing is in line with I9 last I checked.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  19. #19
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    Oh boy... Here we go again. I love the least amount of free play prior to engagement. This was caused by my trials bike with 120 pt engagement freewheel. Mmm colors cause black just plain ain't goin on one of my bikes anymore.

    thanx whalenard.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Onyx hups have a springy feel I can't get along with. Yes they are instant, but I would not consider that engagement very positive.

    The new project 321 with the magnetic paws at least deserve a mention here. 1.5° engagement is as good as instant. The hub is rebuildable including the drive ring.
    My Onyx do not feel springy at all. Dead solid actually, and not clunk or bang of ratchet designs

  21. #21
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    How much you weigh or how strong you are would definately be a factor in how onyx perform for you. I can get the crank arm to rotate 25°-30° with the bike stationery on the sets I've tried. This results in a very weird feel when jumping on the pedals for aggressive riding and a very noticeable sensation of the pedals winding up and springing back on steep climbing efforts.

    This is a known characteristic of the sprag clutch and onyx does some extreme machining tolerances to minimize wind up. Don't get me wrong they are some awesome hubs, just not for me.

    The clunk on a paw or ratchet style freehub will be directly related to the degree of engagement. There is no perceivable clunk on I9 for example. Furthermore, the way the paws are oriented and how they engage make I9's and project 321's the most positive hub engagement I've tried. I'm a big fan of that feel & it's hard to go back to a "sloppier" design.

    The new project 321's are interesting on several fronts. Already they really combined the best attributes of king and I9 and added on some over the top spoke hole machining of their own. The new magnetic paws disengage the drive ring on coasting which should put drag on par with onyx. They cut the already fast 3° engagement to 1.5°, and you can replace the drive ring (maybe you already could, don't know). In full disclosure I've never ridden a project 321, just acknowledging the innovation and execution of an awesome product.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  22. #22
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    Why are you looking for a bombproof hubs if you are using flimsy Jackalope rims?

    +1 for Onyx

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Onyx hups have a springy feel I can't get along with. Yes they are instant, but I would not consider that engagement very positive.

    The new project 321 with the magnetic paws at least deserve a mention here. 1.5° engagement is as good as instant. The hub is rebuildable including the drive ring.
    Do they have a 177x12 rear? I don't see any wide fat rear hubs on their website. not that I should be looking as I have a hope sitting in a box right now but....would be nice to have a matched set as I have their lefty hub.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    My Onyx do not feel springy at all. Dead solid actually, and not clunk or bang of ratchet designs
    Yeah, there ain't no springy in Onyx hubs. What they're feeling is chain stretch. It's amazing how we don't notice something like that with typical hubs....

    @whalenard,

    They're ain't no way in heaven or hell that you can make an Onyx hub rotate 20-30 degres by weighting the cranks. I rode Onyx hubs in three different configurations on a mountain tandem and we couldn't get anywhere near that amount of movement.

    I think some folks are FOS, possibly cubicle biking, passing on heresay, etc, cuz I'm building my fourth set and I wouldnt be doing that if they sucked, esp with how much Onlyx cost!

    But whatever, you all just keep on riding those ratchet hubs, they've worked for years, why try something new? If you hear a woosh of air as I pass, you'll know it was me cuz my hubs are silent

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yeah, there ain't no springy in Onyx hubs. What they're feeling is chain stretch. It's amazing how we don't notice something like that with typical hubs....

    @whalenard,

    They're ain't no way in heaven or hell that you can make an Onyx hub rotate 20-30 degres by weighting the cranks. I rode Onyx hubs in three different configurations on a mountain tandem and we couldn't get anywhere near that amount of movement.

    I think some folks are FOS, possibly cubicle biking, passing on heresay, etc, cuz I'm building my fourth set and I wouldnt be doing that if they sucked, esp with how much Onlyx cost!

    But whatever, you all just keep on riding those ratchet hubs, they've worked for years, why try something new? If you hear a woosh of air as I pass, you'll know it was me cuz my hubs are silent
    Comming across several of your posts lately, I must say, you strike me as the proverbial peice of work. I typically don't engage in this behavior on social media but you crossed the line at accusing me of working in a cubicle. The wind up quality of onyx hubs has been covered on mtbr in at least 3-4 large threads including one you participated in here

    King Hubs vs Oynx Racing Hubs

    Then there is this thread here

    Onyx Racing Hubs - Sprag Clutch vs other types of Engagement

    that you actually started. After page 2 it's essentially 6 pages of peopke acknowledging the springy characteristic. Fuuny enough you don't comment on it again after that...cubicle must have gotten busy.

    I never said onyx hubs sucked nor is there any reason to belittle proven designs so please keep that childish shit to yourself.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  26. #26
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    Whalenard
    How are you testing the springing? I tried standing on one pedal with both brakes on. Both my Dt Swiss and Onyx felt and moved the same. Do you have another recommended method to try?

  27. #27
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    I have never tried an Onyx hub, so I have no idea if it's the same feeling, but I have tried a couple of internal gear hubs (Rohloff & Alfine), they have that same springy feeling that others are describing. I really disliked it. Again, I have no idea if the Onyx feels similar or not, but I'll take a ratchet hub over that anyday. 25 to 30 degrees sounds huge, I can't imagine that being right, that's a huge amount of windup.

    While I'm intrigued by the Onyx hubs, I would stick with a DT Swiss Big Ride. Bombproof design, super easy maintenance, and very reasonable price. Sorry, no blingy colors though...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    Whalenard
    How are you testing the springing? I tried standing on one pedal with both brakes on. Both my Dt Swiss and Onyx felt and moved the same. Do you have another recommended method to try?
    When I was trying to figure out what I was feeling I could get it to wind up with the brakes on out on the trail yes. When I got it home I just put the front tire to a wall to try & figure out what was going on as this was an all new build. Then it was obvious the cassette on the hub was winding up. Still not sure is when I took to Google and found others were having the same experience & I was confident it was the sprag. From there I took the time to bring myself up to speed on the actual design & realized a guy at my weight was simply flexing the outer race (?) as it's essentially a wedge.

    On one of those forums there are some pics of how much wind up some mtbr members were getting. I should also mention, just rereading them last night, that the owner of onyx chimed in with shipping out some taller sprags to some of the guys in an effort to solve the issue. Perhaps it did, and perhaps that was a running design change from that point forward I don't know.

    My personal wheel set was the nobl version which I sold to a friend who is beyond happy with them. What turned me on to them was another friend who was interested in them for a nimble nine build. We went down to universal to check out a set (because universal is awesome like that) and I was honestly pretty blown away with the craftsmanship albeit a little chunky. That's when I discovered nobl and bought a wheel set of theirs. Nobl uses the onyx drive mech in their own hub, their rims are awesome btw. My buddy still has them on his N9 and he is happy with them. When I hop on his bike I can feel it immediately.

    Listen, I said before I'll say it again onyx are some beautifully made in the USA hubs. They were just not for me.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  29. #29
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    I've picked up a set of Hadley Hubs. Made in the USA and they roll great. I'm convinced so far!

    I can't figure out how to right the photo, but you get the idea.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Best rear hub to build with.-img_8061.jpg  


  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    What they're feeling is chain stretch.
    There is no physical way....
    Maybe feeling the frame flex a tiny amount, but chain stretch? I hope that was a joke.

  31. #31
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    Mmmmm, Onyx...gonna set these up with some Duroc 50's and a matched set of Minion 27.5 x 3.8:

    Best rear hub to build with.-2017-02-07-19.12.24.jpgBest rear hub to build with.-2017-02-07-19.11.48.jpgBest rear hub to build with.-2017-02-07-19.12.07.jpg

    As a mountain unicyclist, I appreciate the silent running and immediate engagement of Onyx hubs. For riding in places where a few degrees of rotation will make or break a move, these hubs are worth the $$.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    There is no physical way....
    Maybe feeling the frame flex a tiny amount, but chain stretch? I hope that was a joke.

    Collidus. The collision of body parts with bike parts, caused bu part failure...
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  33. #33
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    I'm going to go back to the 350, lighter, cheaper, and you get to avoid all this drama, which is probably the biggest benefit.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  34. #34
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    I have DT hubs on my clownshoes for mt ICT. Currently shopping for hubs for a 29+ wheelset. I don't know whether I should go for the DT hubs or Hopes or other options. I would like to keep it as low as possible for both hubs, but I am spoiled with the DTs. Any other recommendations?

    My build is gpoing to be Rabbit Holes in gold and DT double butted spokes. Still need to do some tire research.

    220# in riding gear and I would like to be able to run these single speed and geared.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tims5377 View Post
    I have DT hubs on my clownshoes for mt ICT. Currently shopping for hubs for a 29+ wheelset. I don't know whether I should go for the DT hubs or Hopes or other options. I would like to keep it as low as possible for both hubs, but I am spoiled with the DTs. Any other recommendations?

    My build is gpoing to be Rabbit Holes in gold and DT double butted spokes. Still need to do some tire research.

    220# in riding gear and I would like to be able to run these single speed and geared.
    No reason to stray from DT Swiss. I get them from www.worldwidecyclery.com Great price when you use their 10% off coupon

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I'm going to go back to the 350, lighter, cheaper, and you get to avoid all this drama, which is probably the biggest benefit.
    I have 350s that I built up for my Hendrix, they are worthy hubs once the poe is upgraded, but then the hub is no longer such a great deal. I don't understand why I can't order the hub for the same price with different gears, yo uh know the material costs are the same...

    They'd be my first choice for weight and/or budget considerations over Onyx.

    Now that's not too much drama for ya, is it?

    Building my 27.5 fatties this weekend, vroom, vroom.

    ..and for you statisticians, I'm 195 nakid, my wife and I together on the El Gran Jefe tandem were over 350#. Thats two people cranking, super clyde weight class, big wheels, and the only issue we had was tearing a hole in a DW.

    Onyx for the win!

    Oh, and we blew up a Hope on a previous tandem in ten rides.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I have 350s that I built up for my Hendrix, they are worthy hubs once the poe is upgraded, but then the hub is no longer such a great deal. I don't understand why I can't order the hub for the same price with different gears, yo uh know the material costs are the same...

    They'd be my first choice for weight and/or budget considerations over Onyx.

    Now that's not too much drama for ya, is it?

    Building my 27.5 fatties this weekend, vroom, vroom.

    ..and for you statisticians, I'm 195 nakid, my wife and I together on the El Gran Jefe tandem were over 350#. Thats two people cranking, super clyde weight class, big wheels, and the only issue we had was tearing a hole in a DW.

    Onyx for the win!

    Oh, and we blew up a Hope on a previous tandem in ten rides.
    I do agree that you should be able to purchase the DT hubs with the higher engagement ratchets. Maybe for a small surcharge, as they are certainly more expensive to make(more machining, less volume).That's my only criticism of them.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tims5377 View Post
    I have DT hubs on my clownshoes for mt ICT. Currently shopping for hubs for a 29+ wheelset. I don't know whether I should go for the DT hubs or Hopes or other options. I would like to keep it as low as possible for both hubs, but I am spoiled with the DTs. Any other recommendations?

    My build is gpoing to be Rabbit Holes in gold and DT double butted spokes. Still need to do some tire research.

    220# in riding gear and I would like to be able to run these single speed and geared.

    The DT hubs have many advantages -- light, durable, easy to maintain, infrequently need maintenance. In the fatbike realm, they also have the advantage of being among the least expensive hubs you can find. If you find something cheaper, it's likely a Formula, but even the Salsa versions of that hub cost more than the DT.

  39. #39
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    I've had DT on several bikes. I love how simple they are to maintain, and I've never had a single problem. I also like how easy it is to convert them to different sizes. Only downsides are "low" engagement and noise with 54t.

    I have project 321 on one bike. Very nice hub with high engagement. No faults other than noise. My wife rides this bike a lot and it's annoying when I'm on my bike with Onyx lol.

    I had hope once. No major issues except some premature bearing failure. Not sure why that happened. Decent hub but nothing really stood out.

    I have Onyx on a singlespeed. Amazing hubs and plan to use them on all bikes going forward. Only downside for me is weight. I think it's probably because of the gearing on my singlespeed, but there's no lag or spongy feeling.

  40. #40
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    I have Onyx on my 197mm fat bike and am 100% happy w/ it. Yes, at a stand still when you have the brakes locked up if you push down on the pedal there is some rotation from the hub. This is from the pawls standing up to engage the free hub. When riding, I cannot feel this at all, and it isn't wasted energy. It might actually be beneficial to your joints?

    Onyx is a great company based out of Minnesota. They actually let my buddy tour their shop and assemble my rear hub on site. Pretty cool experience if you ask me. Color choices and combos offered by Onyx are unrivaled in the industry. I have owned a Hope, 907, and I9 rear hub, broke all of them. The only hubs I haven't broken on all my bikes are Chris King and Onyx.

  41. #41
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    Onyx has no pawls, it's a sprag. Sprags have been used in automatic transmissions for decades.
    Peeps might be mistaking any movement with spoke windup.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    Do they have a 177x12 rear? I don't see any wide fat rear hubs on their website. not that I should be looking as I have a hope sitting in a box right now but....would be nice to have a matched set as I have their lefty hub.
    Yes. Also shipping now with the alloy driver if you're so inclined.

    https://onyxrp.com/store/fat-bike-hu...177-12mm-thru/

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Onyx so when some nerd with loud i9s rolls by you can look down on them condescendingly and make snide remarks about them being poor.
    I love loud hubs. Makes me feel like a kid on my old bmx bike. Is the i9 the loudest for 197 hub. I am looking to replace my stock Salsa hub with something that is more ear catching.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltobrewer View Post
    Yes. Also shipping now with the alloy driver if you're so inclined.

    https://onyxrp.com/store/fat-bike-hu...177-12mm-thru/
    I was referring to project 321

  45. #45
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    Is that a Kappius drive mechanism you're referring to? Project 321 doesn't mention anything on their web site that I could find.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyemesh View Post
    Is that a Kappius drive mechanism you're referring to? Project 321 doesn't mention anything on their web site that I could find.
    eyemesh,
    here is some info on our new driver.
    Project 321 - New Drive System
    Not on current website but new website is almost done.

    It can be set up loud or quiet and the quiet setup has significantly less drag than any hubs we've tested including sprag and axial ratchet drive systems.

    But, unfortunately we dont have a fat hub yet. Hoping to have
    them by the end of summer.
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    i would think that a small amount of windup engagement would be very desirable and effective in technical climbing. like feathering a clutch on a dirt bike, or more like Recluse clutch (for those who know how those work). getting a chance to demo an Onyx on trail is very unlikely and it's a shame.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cunningstunts View Post
    i would think that a small amount of windup engagement would be very desirable and effective in technical climbing. like feathering a clutch on a dirt bike, or more like Recluse clutch (for those who know how those work). getting a chance to demo an Onyx on trail is very unlikely and it's a shame.
    Not as far as I'm concerned. Any 'feathering' can be done with your legs. Instant hard engagement is much more confidence inspiring. That was one thing I really hated about the Shimano Alfine internal gear hub, it was 'springy' when applying power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark View Post
    There is no physical way....
    Maybe feeling the frame flex a tiny amount, but chain stretch? I hope that was a joke.
    Sure bro, an inch or two of chain stretch is totally normal when hammering.

    We can never notice this with a ratchet and pawl system because, you know, no reason, no biggie, what's the deal?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    Not as far as I'm concerned. Any 'feathering' can be done with your legs. Instant hard engagement is much more confidence inspiring. That was one thing I really hated about the Shimano Alfine internal gear hub, it was 'springy' when applying power.

    I think it's a largely function of what your soil/trail types are. Living where you do, with lots of organic soil 'neath your tires, I can see how a hard lockup could be desirable.

    Living where I do, in the desert where everything is rock or mineral soil, *anything* that eases the impact is a bonus.

    That said, the Onyx is nowhere near as spongy as an Alfine. It's more pronounced in the friendly gears, but still nothing like the Alfine.

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    So, a comment was made that jackalope rims were flimsy. Is this true? I am considering a jackalope DT 350 wheel build possibly by mikesee, but I need rims that will last in the Phoenix area desert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHORN LEW View Post
    So, a comment was made that jackalope rims were flimsy. Is this true? I am considering a jackalope DT 350 wheel build possibly by mikesee, but I need rims that will last in the Phoenix area desert.

    They are just as durable, or, depending on perspective, just as flimsy as any other aluminum fat rim. Can you kill them? *ANY* rim can be killed with enough abuse.

    Their benefit lies in their simple and bomber tubeless interface, as well as ease of swapping tires.

    I have them on my wife's fatbike, which she rode ~1000 miles in Colorado last winter alone, and another 300 miles across Alaska. Essentially what I'm saying is that I trust my wife's life to them.

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    Thanks mike, I was hoping that was what I would hear. I'm guessing they are just as light as say dt 710's also when you figure in rim strip, tape, and valve. So I'll keep planning on those rims.

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