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  1. #1
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    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)

    Thread for the build for my fatbike/packrafting expedition to the Arctic Ocean.

    I'll update as the build progresses. A few key bits:
    • 9:ZERO:7 135mm offset
    • Rohloff
    • Schmidt SON28
    • Large Marge XC


    Frame choice in a nutshell: Rohloff and dynohub are required to accomplish the goals of the expedition. The Rohloff Speedhubs are only available in 135mm and the Schmidt hubs are only available in 100mm. I prefer the offset build to the various 170mm rear end options requiring adapters/spacers. I also love the standover height of the 9:ZERO:7 aluminum frames.

    Oh, and... after living on a sailboat with a bike for about 3 years, I've experienced the accelerated rates of steel oxidization in marine environments firsthand. I'm disqualifying the Pugs and other steel frames for that reason.

    Just snatched Step 1 off the truck...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-9zero7.jpg  

    Last edited by 77Zero; 02-17-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I'm really stoked to see how this progresses. The electrogenerator front hub, non offset, Rohloff rear end.. this oughta be super cool.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Just curious what your timeline is for this trip, ie. when you are planning on being where, that sort of thing.

  5. #5
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    Interesting trip. if no liquid or gas fuel for cooking your fuel plan for heating water/ food? I can't imagine the trip w/o hot beverages and only raw foods

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbslim View Post
    Interesting trip. if no liquid or gas fuel for cooking your fuel plan for heating water/ food? I can't imagine the trip w/o hot beverages and only raw foods
    you forgot, no wood either - from the website " a world in which humans are freed from the reliance on burning dead stuff for energy"

  7. #7
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    While these questions may all be interesting, I'll primarily be discussing the build in the context of mtbr sub-forum fat bikes.

  8. #8
    is buachail foighneach me
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    No hot drinks or cooked meals in between villages shouldn't be that much of a problem. I always had foods I didn't need to cook and water with or without drink mixes on my tours.

  9. #9
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearbait View Post
    Just curious what your timeline is for this trip, ie. when you are planning on being where, that sort of thing.
    From the website:


    In the last week of March 2012, I'm heading north to the Arctic Ocean on foot, fatbike, and packraft. The estimated duration of the expedition is 6-8 months, but may vary significantly due to ice, ocean, and ground conditions throughout.

    Fatbikerafting the Arctic by Andrew Badenoch — Kickstarter

  10. #10
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    Just trying to envision the trip a bit better that's all.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearbait View Post
    Just trying to envision the trip a bit better that's all.
    I'm with ya... was mainly dodging the food questions. As far as the bike use (very oversimplified), Spring will be road, gravel, ice/snow trails, and maybe frozen rivers/lakes (route has alternate options based on breakup). Summer will be tundra. Fall will be bushwacking in the southern half of Alaska and the Lost Coast.
    Last edited by 77Zero; 02-17-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Good luck and God's speed
    Still cleaning my Fatback.
    It's a life style.

  13. #13
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    Fall will be bushwacking in the southern half of Alaska and the Lost Coast.

    Can you say "bear-anoia"

  14. #14
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    The OP is using access to his travel techniques as part of his revenue stream, hence a reluctance to share information here for free.

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    Cool trip, good idea. Good luck with the build

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarNorth View Post
    Fall will be bushwacking in the southern half of Alaska and the Lost Coast.

    Can you say "bear-anoia"
    Oh you sound like the whole way is like the yakutat dump, I think the most we saw was like 10 one evening east of the Malaspinia

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthony.delorenzo View Post
    The OP is using access to his travel techniques as part of his revenue stream, hence a reluctance to share information here for free.
    That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by 77Zero; 02-23-2012 at 03:40 PM.

  18. #18
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    still waiting on crucial parts, but here's a (grainy) quickie...

    SON28 + Large Marge
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-son28-large-marge.jpg  

    Global Zero Fuel Expeditions. Sail. Bike. Paddle. Hike. 77Zero.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearbait View Post
    Oh you sound like the whole way is like the yakutat dump, I think the most we saw was like 10 one evening east of the Malaspinia
    Those dump bears are like our menacing pets. Something about those bears on the other side of the bay, they have a grumpiness about them.

  20. #20
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    rohloff / son28 / large marge

    the cornerstones of the build.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-rohloff.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-son28.jpg  

    Last edited by 77Zero; 03-21-2012 at 05:26 PM.
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  21. #21
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    braze-ons off / plasti-dip

    oopsies... the braze-ons fell off. removing them might seem superfluous, but every little bit of metal sticking out is a potential problem when the bike is strapped to the packraft.

    i left the appropriate cable-routing braze-ons and a few rack mounts to potentially stabilize heavyish bags.

    removed: lower rear rack mount, rear derailleur cable guides. front derailleur cable guides/stop, canti brake bosses.

    stage 1 of plast-dip. it's kind of a pain to work with. regular masking doesn't work; all masked lines must be pulled immediately when still wet. this causes problems because it forces you to do one thick coat along the masked edges. other than loving the matte finish and rubberized feel, it's probably the wrong choice for this project.

    the blue masking tape is just for coverage between the cleaner edges, which are electrical tape. the black seen poking out at the edge of the logos is the electrical tape over the logos. it's way easier to mask curves with the electrical.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-fork.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-braze-ons-off.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-plasti.jpg  

    Last edited by 77Zero; 03-21-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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  22. #22
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    This looks interesting! I have thought about plasti-dipping bike stuff before but never had the balls to do it! Can't wait to see it finished!
    My motorcycle runs on infant blood

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesauvageau View Post
    I have thought about plasti-dipping bike stuff before but never had the balls to do it! Can't wait to see it finished!
    The cool thing about Plasti Dip is that if you mess up, you can just peel it off and try again (as long as we're talking about non-porous surfaces). This will be the second frame/fork I've done. It went okay the first time, but I'm definitely tweaking some things.

  24. #24
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    Cool, How many cans does it take to do a frame and fork?
    My motorcycle runs on infant blood

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesauvageau View Post
    Cool, How many cans does it take to do a frame and fork?
    2-3. I'll probably use 3 this time... seems like messing around with the masking process results in more overspray/waste. I think I used 3 last time... didn't mask off logos on that bike, but also did bar, stem, and cranks.

    Oh, this time will be 4 sorta. I'm going to use flat clear over the logos to cut down on its opportunity to peel at the edges. But... that will just take a fraction of a can.
    Global Zero Fuel Expeditions. Sail. Bike. Paddle. Hike. 77Zero.

  26. #26
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    Just read through this thread, and I love the idea! I hope to eventually be in a position in life where I can do these sorts of things that you and several others are able to enjoy.

    One thing bothers me though, honestly. The zero fuel for transportation thing...you may not be burning any fossil fuels to propel your bike or raft, but to produce that raft and the bike and ship it did use fuel. Most likely the food you consume along the way will also be carbon-intensive, and I think its fair to say thats fuel for transportation. We couldn't have these sort of great expeditionary tools that adventurers, miners, and loggers lacked 100+ years ago. In a truly post carbon world, we won't have bike tires (unless we develop technology to process goldenrod into latex, and then into tires, or find a way to carbon-free way to process rubber from rubber trees into products and then transport it.)

    I don't own a car, using a bike as my primary transportation, I eat as locally as I can afford, and grow what food I can. But I'm not fooling myself that I my lifestyle is carbon free. Basically, I think it's important not to deceive ourselves about our actions and lifestyles...

    Anyway, that build looks great for wilderness expeditioning and/or general awesomery. Hope the trip goes well!

  27. #27
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    ee ay ess,

    Please note the important difference between building a house with a hammer, and building a house out of hammers. Whether building or tearing down, it's always important to understand the difference between the tools and the structure.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ee ay ess View Post
    Just read through this thread, and I love the idea! I hope to eventually be in a position in life where I can do these sorts of things that you and several others are able to enjoy.

    One thing bothers me though, honestly. The zero fuel for transportation thing...you may not be burning any fossil fuels to propel your bike or raft, but to produce that raft and the bike and ship it did use fuel. Most likely the food you consume along the way will also be carbon-intensive, and I think its fair to say thats fuel for transportation. We couldn't have these sort of great expeditionary tools that adventurers, miners, and loggers lacked 100+ years ago. In a truly post carbon world, we won't have bike tires (unless we develop technology to process goldenrod into latex, and then into tires, or find a way to carbon-free way to process rubber from rubber trees into products and then transport it.)

    I don't own a car, using a bike as my primary transportation, I eat as locally as I can afford, and grow what food I can. But I'm not fooling myself that I my lifestyle is carbon free. Basically, I think it's important not to deceive ourselves about our actions and lifestyles...

    Anyway, that build looks great for wilderness expeditioning and/or general awesomery. Hope the trip goes well!

    Well said.

    The premise behind raising money for trips like this, whether it be for some medical research, stopping idling cars, or in this case, some strange convoluted logic about saving the earth always makes me uncomfortable. Bottom line, money and resources are going into a personal trip and itís wasteful. Nothing wrong with that, Iím all for selfish trips, but why fool yourself into thinking itís for a greater cause.

    Youíd be much more useful to society volunteering your time and money somewhere for 6 months.

  29. #29
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    Could we keep carbon out of this. He gets blamed for enough. I thought the idea of no fuels meant he was much less dependent on the out side world for his adventure.
    Still cleaning my Fatback.
    It's a life style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenfin View Post
    Could we keep carbon out of this. He gets blamed for enough. I thought the idea of no fuels meant he was much less dependent on the out side world for his adventure.
    This is more or less what I am saying. Leave the noble-but-mistaken fuel claims out of it, and focus on the adventure.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    Well said.

    The premise behind raising money for trips like this, whether it be for some medical research, stopping idling cars, or in this case, some strange convoluted logic about saving the earth always makes me uncomfortable. Bottom line, money and resources are going into a personal trip and itís wasteful. Nothing wrong with that, Iím all for selfish trips, but why fool yourself into thinking itís for a greater cause.

    Youíd be much more useful to society volunteering your time and money somewhere for 6 months.
    Strange convoluted logic about saving the earth? The Kickstarter project was about raising money for a documentary film project. Since it hasn't even been written or shot, it's rather interesting that you've already judged the result.

    The only reason I linked the expedition was to give context for the physical environment in which the bike will be used. I'm here to talk about a bike build, not to seek anyone's approval about what I think is important in life or make you feel cozy and comfortable. Modern humans are comfortable to the point of being anesthetized, so I'm okay spreading a little discomfort. I'd be happy to engage in these tangential discussions, and point out how little you understand about what goes on in my head, but I don't currently have the time.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

  32. #32
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    Still futzing with the cable routing, missing the chain tensioner, and yeah... the tire is backwards. Those pedals and seat are temporary.

    The front DT Swiss RWS Skewer bumps into the BB7 caliper so I flipped it the 'wrong' way.

    Back to work.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-side-front.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-rear-tire.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-side-rear.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-son28.jpg  

    Arctic Fatty Build (9:ZERO:7)-77zero-rohloff.jpg  

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ee ay ess View Post
    Leave the noble-but-mistaken fuel claims out of it, and focus on the adventure.
    Misrepresenting me is tedious. I don't purport to be a disengaged ascetic monk living in a zero world devoid of petroleum. I'm not burning fuel for locomotion or heat; it's pretty simple really. The externalized uses of petroleum you point out are important to consider, but you're imposing claims on me that I haven't made. There is a non-trivial difference between petroleum that is burned (fuel) and petroleum that is converted to things like plastic.

    Forgive me Father for I have sinned. It's been 193 years since my last confession: I've had things delivered on big brown trucks. I once used a lighter to melt the tip of a cord I cut. My Rohloff hub came with 25 ml of oil that I assume is derived from liquid pumped from the ground in the Middle East. My chain was coated in some non-descript brownish slippery stuff by the manufacturer. And Flying Spaghetti Monster knows where the electrons powering this wifi came from.
    Global Zero Fuel Expeditions. Sail. Bike. Paddle. Hike. 77Zero.

  34. #34
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    Andrew,

    I've got some detail questions, IF you have a minute to dash off an answer, I'd be stoked:

    Tubeless, light tubes, or heavy tubes? Tell us why (twitter version: 124 characters, the more pithy the better)

    Grips: ergonomic? Ergons, yay or nay.

    Also--no drilling the wheels? Why not?

    Brakes: cables or hydro?

    Finished weight of the bike.

    Deets. We need details on this pig wagon.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    Misrepresenting me is tedious. I don't purport to be a disengaged ascetic monk living in a zero world devoid of petroleum. I'm not burning fuel for locomotion or heat; it's pretty simple really. The externalized uses of petroleum you point out are important to consider, but you're imposing claims on me that I haven't made. There is a non-trivial difference between petroleum that is burned (fuel) and petroleum that is converted to things like plastic.

    Forgive me Father for I have sinned. It's been 193 years since my last confession: I've had things delivered on big brown trucks. I once used a lighter to melt the tip of a cord I cut. My Rohloff hub came with 25 ml of oil that I assume is derived from liquid pumped from the ground in the Middle East. My chain was coated in some non-descript brownish slippery stuff by the manufacturer. And Flying Spaghetti Monster knows where the electrons powering this wifi came from.
    I'm not being contentious, so there's no reason to act like an ass--unless you're just being contentious.

    I would also say don't misrepresent me--I haven't said not to use any fossil fuel, or made any judgments about using it (as your response implies.) I'm on the mtbr fatbike forum too, after all.

    What I did was point out that without the petroleum used to produce your bike, etc, you'd have nothing to propel. Because of that, petroleum is necessary for the propulsion of your adventure--and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that.

    Sweet bike, btw.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Tubeless, light tubes, or heavy tubes? Tell us why (twitter version: 124 characters, the more pithy the better)
    Q Tubes 2.7" Superlights in there now. Have some Surly Lights for backup. My preference is tubeless with tube backup... going to try ghetto tubeless before I take off, but I haven't seen any reports of that succeeding (or failing either, really) with the Husker Dus so I'll report back. If anyone has suggestions for successful tubeless HDs, I'm all ears.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Grips: ergonomic? Ergons, yay or nay.
    Haven't put any miles on them, but so far, yay. I like the extra hand position(s) afforded by the integrated bar end... despite the fashion hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Also--no drilling the wheels? Why not?
    These are Large Marge XCs -- drilled inner wall. Forgot to take photos, but will try to next time I have the tires off.

    I decided on Large Marge for three reasons. 1) A combination of paranoia of smashing a wheel weeks from the closest village, and recommendations by the 9:ZERO:7 crew nudged me to double-walled durability. 2) The 100mm fork makes it a bear to get the wheel out w/ 80mm+ rims while running a front brake -- caliper gets in the way. I've since learned that the 65mm is still next to impossible to remove anyway. 3) The Rohloff IGH adds extra torque to the rear wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Brakes: cables or hydro?
    Avid BB7 MTB cable. I suspect there's 80%+ chance these will fail in an ocean/beach stretch, but didn't find any better options. I might just remove the calipers on the beaches, and only use the brakes on road/trail.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Finished weight of the bike.
    My scale only goes to 11 lbs. ("11, it's one louder"), but I'll see if I can weigh it in sections.
    Last edited by 77Zero; 04-09-2012 at 08:33 AM. Reason: typo
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    Still futzing with the cable routing, missing the chain tensioner, and yeah... the tire is backwards. Those pedals and seat are temporary.

    The front DT Swiss RWS Skewer bumps into the BB7 caliper so I flipped it the 'wrong' way.

    Back to work.
    That's actually the right way to mount a front QR lever on a disc brake bike. The heat from the caliper can cause the lever to heat up and subsequently loosen over time. Not sure how it works on the RWS skewers but have always heard this with standard QRs.

    Awesome looking bike, did you have to prep anything in order to make sure the plasti-dip stuck or did you just clean the frame with alcohol, let it dry, and then spray?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    Still futzing with the cable routing...
    If I were you, I would follow the rear brake and zip tie all three to the cable stops...reverse the external box (cable exit pointed rearward), and then clock it up a little bit...

    Just a suggestion...

    g

  39. #39
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    Just curious what the plans are for shakedown/test rides before the big event?
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    That's actually the right way to mount a front QR lever on a disc brake bike. The heat from the caliper can cause the lever to heat up and subsequently loosen over time. Not sure how it works on the RWS skewers but have always heard this with standard QRs.

    Awesome looking bike, did you have to prep anything in order to make sure the plasti-dip stuck or did you just clean the frame with alcohol, let it dry, and then spray?
    That's how I always mount them too. Mostly because of the couple of times I've messed with my QR after a long downhill and burned my hand on the hot rotor.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    Q Tubes 2.7" Superlights in there now. Have some Surly Lights for backup. My preference is tubeless with tube backup... going to try ghetto tubeless before I take off, but I haven't seen any reports of that succeeding (or failing either, really) with the Husker Dus so I'll report back. If anyone has suggestions for successful tubeless HDs, I'm all ears.
    I've got HuDu's set up ghetto tubeless on Rolling D's, no problems. 2 scoops in each tire.

  42. #42
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    HŁsker DŁ + Large Marge tubeless success

    Just saw the last few posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTR2ebike View Post
    I've got HuDu's set up ghetto tubeless on Rolling D's, no problems. 2 scoops in each tire.
    Got mine to work split-tube ghetto on Large Marge XC. Used 24" tubes, but would probably try 20s next time. Will still be carrying spare tubes, patches, etc., but hopefully tubeless will allow me to milk the no flat situation a little longer than starting with tubes.
    Global Zero Fuel Expeditions. Sail. Bike. Paddle. Hike. 77Zero.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Awesome looking bike, did you have to prep anything in order to make sure the plasti-dip stuck or did you just clean the frame with alcohol, let it dry, and then spray?
    Thanks! Yup, just alcohol, dry, spray. It stuck pretty well. Unfortunately, I seriously botched the logos, and didn't have/couldn't get enough white to redo it... peeled off the white Plasti-Dip. Painted with regular matte white, then coated over everything with clear Plasti-Dip. The result looked great, but there's no way it's going to hold up.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Just curious what the plans are for shakedown/test rides before the big event?
    All my plans are out the window. I've had to spend way too much time with the sewing machine (Revelate bags have been out of stock for months) and I'm way behind schedule. I'll be hitting the road without the testing I'd planned. I've had her out a few times, and a couple more local rides will have to do. The only upshot is that I'll be pedaling through semi-inhabited BC for the first couple weeks.
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  45. #45
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    keep you the good work
    Still cleaning my Fatback.
    It's a life style.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    All my plans are out the window. I've had to spend way too much time with the sewing machine (Revelate bags have been out of stock for months) and I'm way behind schedule. I'll be hitting the road without the testing I'd planned. I've had her out a few times, and a couple more local rides will have to do. The only upshot is that I'll be pedaling through semi-inhabited BC for the first couple weeks.
    I just got new sweet new bags from Scott at Porcelain Rocket, he's up in Victoria, BC. I know he's doing a lot of stuff for Great Divide racers so he might be busy but you should drop him a line if you're not wanting to DIY.

    Custom Bicycle Bags from Porcelain Rocket

  47. #47
    Caveman
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    (Revelate bags have been out of stock for months)
    Don't recall you ever inquiring about gear. we've been shipping bags daily. false statement.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    I'm way behind schedule.
    When do the pedals start turning?...

    Quote Originally Posted by 77Zero View Post
    I'll be hitting the road without the testing I'd planned.
    Having been there are not done the testing myself. I gotta tell you the hassle of dealing with the inevitable problems on the road will far out weigh the time delay for a modest test session of the whole setup you plan to take with you closer to home.

    It's never a time saver to skip testing out the whole setup...
    Last edited by vikb; 04-09-2012 at 11:21 AM.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  49. #49
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    Correction: Eric at Revelate handled my order and shipped out super-fast. I've been rolling north through BC with a Viscacha seat bag and 4 piece handlebar harness/bag system for several days now.

    The touring types are perplexed by the lack of panniers, but I'm pretty sure they mainly need them for their mini-fridges and microwaves.
    Global Zero Fuel Expeditions. Sail. Bike. Paddle. Hike. 77Zero.

  50. #50
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    pannier's are nice,I put a couple cans of beer in mine instead of the microwave oven

    Nice looking 907, good luck on the trip.
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