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  1. #1
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    Anyone running heavy duty motorcycle tubes in Larrys?

    This is my first post, so if this topic has been covered just shoot me a link to the thread.

    I never want another flat on my rear Pugsley tire. Currently running standard Surly 4" PV tubes in Larrys with Stan's. Works fine on thorns and staples but took two Stan's showers lately and subsequent roadside repairs due to larger objects (twig, square rock) that should not be penetrating any bike tire IMO.

    I have ordered a pair of 80/100-21" HD moto tubes with 3mm thick rubber. I plan to fill them with Stan's too. Found no info on the Interweb regarding the HD tubes. Yes, I know they are heavy and will slow me down - I don't care. I am a strong cyclist with 18 granny gears to choose from and in no rush, although 40 minutes to fix a puncture is ridiculous so...slow is better than stop. FYI - I can fix a standard puncture on a 26x2 or 29x2 in 15 minutes using CO2.

    My Pugs is about 6 years old and I have never been in love with Larry's or Endomorphs as they seem like giant inner-tubes with treads. Fine on snow and at the beach. I wanna ride Pugs all the time - cactus, city streets, farm roads, single track, mud, gravel, limestone, broken glass, everything. I just don't want a used toothpick flatting me.

    ANY experience - success or failures - would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Maybe try 27 tpi Nates and/or a tubeless setup.

  3. #3
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    jeepers, I rode the crap out of my Larrys on tech terrain before I went to other tires and I think I had like 2 flats ever, both were pinch flats. What causes the 40 minute repair? I always just carry a 26"x2.5 or so DH tube for if/when I flat.
    Transition Bandit 29
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    What causes the 40 minute repair?
    1. Ride Pugsley, get a punture...
    2. Find a place to work...
    3. Shift to small cog rear...
    4. Remove chain from front chainring...
    5. Loosen rear disk caliper, move it up, tighten in place...
    6. Remove QR skewer altogether...
    7. Pull chain off rear cog and wrap around horizontal dropout...
    8. Slide wheel out of frame...
    9. Grab flat fix bag...
    10. Squeeze tire all around to unseat beads...
    11. Pry one bead off and remove tire/tube from hoop...
    12. Pull tube out and grab a rag...
    13. Wipe Stan's sealant from inside of tire and outside of tube, off my face, etc.
    14. Partially inflate spare tube with 16 gram CO2... (or patch tube)
    15. Put tire and tube on hoop...
    16. Add more CO2 and check bead all around...
    17. Use another CO2...
    18. Use another CO2...
    19. Pry frozen CO2 off of hand hopefully without skin...
    20. Slide wheel back into dropouts and brake rotor under caliper while holding two Karate Monkey spacers in place in dropout simultaneously (otherwise my front derailleur rubs the rear tire in low gear)...
    21. Replace chain on small cog...
    22. Insert skewer, attach skewer nut, tighten...
    23. Replace chain on front chainring...
    24. Make sure wheel is in frame properly by spinning and looking at it...
    25. Adjust brake caliper properly to rotor...
    26. Pack up the tools, dead tube, wet rag, etc...
    27. Ride.
    28. Pray to every popular deity that I don't flat again.

    Took me ten minutes just to type that.

    OK.. My goal is this:

    1. Ride Pugsley all day.
    2. Return home and check tires for debris.
    3. Take a nap.
    4. Deal with whatever may be sticking in my tires at my leisure inside my warm office.
    5. Live happily ever after. (Or until next ride).

    If anyone can shortcut my flat fix schedule I am all ears. But I am not riding single speed. Part of the time issue comes from running a rear derailleur in horizontal dropouts. If the Pug had vertical dropouts I would probably save 5-10 minutes.

  5. #5
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    Anyone running heavy duty motorcycle tubes in Larrys?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    1. Ride Pugsley, get a punture...
    2. Find a place to work...
    3. Shift to small cog rear...
    4. Remove chain from front chainring...
    5. Loosen rear disk caliper, move it up, tighten in place...
    6. Remove QR skewer altogether...
    7. Pull chain off rear cog and wrap around horizontal dropout...
    8. Slide wheel out of frame...
    9. Grab flat fix bag...
    10. Squeeze tire all around to unseat beads...
    11. Pry one bead off and remove tire/tube from hoop...
    12. Pull tube out and grab a rag...
    13. Wipe Stan's sealant from inside of tire and outside of tube, off my face, etc.
    14. Partially inflate spare tube with 16 gram CO2... (or patch tube)
    15. Put tire and tube on hoop...
    16. Add more CO2 and check bead all around...
    17. Use another CO2...
    18. Use another CO2...
    19. Pry frozen CO2 off of hand hopefully without skin...
    20. Slide wheel back into dropouts and brake rotor under caliper while holding two Karate Monkey spacers in place in dropout simultaneously (otherwise my front derailleur rubs the rear tire in low gear)...
    21. Replace chain on small cog...
    22. Insert skewer, attach skewer nut, tighten...
    23. Replace chain on front chainring...
    24. Make sure wheel is in frame properly by spinning and looking at it...
    25. Adjust brake caliper properly to rotor...
    26. Pack up the tools, dead tube, wet rag, etc...
    27. Ride.
    28. Pray to every popular deity that I don't flat again.

    Took me ten minutes just to type that.

    OK.. My goal is this:

    1. Ride Pugsley all day.
    2. Return home and check tires for debris.
    3. Take a nap.
    4. Deal with whatever may be sticking in my tires at my leisure inside my warm office.
    5. Live happily ever after. (Or until next ride).

    If anyone can shortcut my flat fix schedule I am all ears. But I am not riding single speed. Part of the time issue comes from running a rear derailleur in horizontal dropouts. If the Pug had vertical dropouts I would probably save 5-10 minutes.
    You are making it too complicated.

    If #1 happens, there is no need to do numbers 4, 6, or 7 and eliminates 22 and 23.
    Since the sealant is not working anyway, stop using it and 13 goes away.
    Get a pump and 14, 16, 17, and 18 will be easier and faster, and 19 does not happen.
    Use a bit of glue and 20 is a nonissue.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    You are making it too complicated.

    If #1 happens, there is no need to do numbers 4, 6, or 7 and eliminates 22 and 23.
    Since the sealant is not working anyway, stop using it and 13 goes away.
    Get a pump and 14, 16, 17, and 18 will be easier and faster, and 19 does not happen.
    Use a bit of glue and 20 is a nonissue.
    Thanks for the info. But without Stan's, which works 95% of the time I would fix one or two flats a week.

    I also didn't mention my rear derailleur is a SRAM X9 - probably the worst choice I could have made. Trust me, gotta pull the skewer out, pull the chain around the stay to free up the cassette for sliding the wheel straight out of the dropout. It is actually very easy, just a lot of steps.

    Gluing the Karate Monkey spacers is a good idea. Never thought of that because they are washer shaped, not "C" shaped. Guess I could cut a slot with no harm done.

    I have heard that it might be possible to grind a bit of the rear caliper housing enough to free the rotor, thus eliminating the need to move the caliper every time.

    It could be 100F and 100% humidity (where I live) while humping a hand pump a few hundred strokes as insects are carving me up. CO2 is a must. But CO2 will STILL freeze to a hand in hot weather. I coat my cartridges in old inner-tubes but now and then bare metal touches my sweaty palm.

    Again, thanks for taking the time.

  7. #7
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    Joey, I hear ya. It didn't take too many flats before I was done with the flats on the fattie. I did try some motorcycle tubes as well since I have a good friend with a motorcycle shop. They are a lot heavier and I didn't like how they expanded.

    You need to step up and just do tubeless. Yes, it takes maybe an hour setting them up the first time but it's easy after that. Just ride.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Joey, I hear ya. It didn't take too many flats before I was done with the flats on the fattie. I did try some motorcycle tubes as well since I have a good friend with a motorcycle shop. They are a lot heavier and I didn't like how they expanded.

    You need to step up and just do tubeless. Yes, it takes maybe an hour setting them up the first time but it's easy after that. Just ride.
    Thanks for the note! I knew someone out there must have given it a shot. I think if the tubes don't fit well I will just fillet them and make "tuffy" liners and see how that works.

    I guess the tubeless approach would do no more harm than a Surly 4" tube full of Stan's. But the tires just pop so easily around town. My hopes and dreams are to eliminate punctures by all but the gnarliest of objects - knitting needles and railroad spikes. If the tube is thicker than the tire it stands to reason that Stan's would have a better shot at sealing such a tube, and normal pointy objects would have to go through almost 4x as much rubber in the first place.

    I will certainly post my results and findings no matter what. Since my Pugs is not a single speed I will just gear down to get the heavy rubber rolling. I shift a bike like a race car anyway.

    Good info. Thank again.

  9. #9
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    I went ghetto tubeless over a month ago and have not had any issues. They barely leak down over time and the ride improves. I run them at about 8 to 8.5 lbs of air and ride all sorts of terrain. I hate flats too and have not had a single flat on any of my bikes since going tubeless.

  10. #10
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    OK. Lots of votes for tubeless. If my MC tube attempt fails I know what direction to take.

  11. #11
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    there are several threads on here showing options. Many went with heavy duty DH tubes, some didn't like them. I run DH myself because I swap tires often.

    motorcycle tubes are mentioned in this thread

    Which Fat Tyre Inner Tube?
    Quote Originally Posted by davidarnott
    wheelies, beyond being the best way over any sort of obstacle, both above or below, are are the steedliest expresstion of joy

  12. #12
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    Try burlier tyres like the Vee Rubber Missions with tubes and sealant. They are much sturdier than my surly tyres.

    I was trucking along on my pug with the Vee Rubber tyres and be fore I knew what hit me i crunched right over a bunch of sharp broken bottle glass. I feared the worst but found no damage what so ever.

    That could be a good solution.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Try burlier tyres like the Vee Rubber Missions with tubes and sealant. They are much sturdier than my surly tyres.
    It would seem to me that anything that would punch a hole through a tire and spew out Stan's would puncture a MC tube.

    I use MC tubes in my dualsport bike and they are burly enough they might resist smaller thorns, but tubeless or "normal" fat bike tubes with sealant would handle those.

    I'm not a fan of heavy duty stiff tires in general, but if you are getting repeated major punctures then it might be necessary.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  14. #14
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    I have found the Origin 8 Devist8er to be a good tire to avoid flats. It it heavy (4lbs per tire) put I have had only one flat (a mysterious one, never did find the source) in a year of use.

  15. #15
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    The Vee Rubber Missions sure are heavy (approx. 1800g) and the accompanying Vee Rubber tubes look pretty beefy as well. But for $33 and $11 respectively, I'm happy with this for a Summer Tire setup.

    I don't wan't to wear down soft and expensive Surly or 45 North rubber while riding around town and on rocky trails.

  16. #16
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    I used to get lots of flats and I tried everything to avoid them. Beefy tyres and tubes are what works best for me. I won't bother with sealant ever again. I run downhill tyres on my mountain bikes and the Origin8 Devist8ers on my fatbike and I haven't had a flat for a long time.

    I like the look of the Surly Bud & Lou tyres but I won't put them on my Moonlander because I can do without stick punctures:

    Milltown Cycles: So this happened.


  17. #17
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    Great info everyone. Was not aware of Origon8 Devist8er and looks like Vee Rubber also makes motorcycle tubes.

    All good to know. Thanks.

  18. #18
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    You could line your tires with kevlar fabric.......

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatsinglespeeder View Post
    I used to get lots of flats and I tried everything to avoid them. Beefy tyres and tubes are what works best for me. I won't bother with sealant ever again. I run downhill tyres on my mountain bikes and the Origin8 Devist8ers on my fatbike and I haven't had a flat for a long time.

    I like the look of the Surly Bud & Lou tyres but I won't put them on my Moonlander because I can do without stick punctures:

    Milltown Cycles: So this happened.

    why are there no spokes on the left side of that rear wheel?

  20. #20
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    The rear wheel of a Surly Moonlander is offset..........alot.

  21. #21
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    I don't think that heavy duty tubes would work that well. As a lightweight rider I have some problems with tubes not filling the whole tire at riding pressures. It's not that I can't use them, but I'm pretty sure that the tire would work alot better if that didn't happen. Using stronger tubes would probably make it even worse.

  22. #22
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    I use the thin Surly inner tubes with my Devist8ers because I couldn't find anything better and it works surprisingly well, no flats yet. The Devist8ers have a kevlar belt and that might help as well.

  23. #23
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    i run heavy duty motorcycle tubes in my pug too... and iam happy with them...

    ... i used some blue kenda (smurf spe**) tire sealeant, it worked fine till the day where my backwheel found a 8 inch nail... no problem since then again... and i round low pressures too. (5-8psi)...
    ...in my eyes the motorcycle tubes run more constantly than normal DH tubes or high-quality bike tubes...

    ...but you where right they are a bit more heavier...

  24. #24
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  25. #25
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    JoeyBike,
    I use stock Surly Toobs with about 4-6oz of Slime in each one. I rode over 90 miles in the west TX Desert with no flats. All my riding buddies on this trip all flatted at least once. Some pinched some punctured. I did a lot of research here on MTBR and other sites and here is what i found in a nutshell.

    1. Stans is not meant for tubes. period it is made for tubless setups and designed specifically for sealing the bead on NON-UST type rim wheel combos. not knocking Stans (Great Product) just not good in tubes. plus you have to keep adding more every 3-4 months and you never will get the Stans booger out of the tube.

    2. Slime is Fast, Cheap and Easy. just like fast food and drunk college chicks! you can remove the core and squeeze in the desired amount, reinsert core and ride!!!

    3. Best option that I have read about but not tried is another sealant called Flat Attack. this is supposed to be the best for tubes.

    4. Go Ghetto Tubless! I actually prefer tubes myself. You have to carry a spare tube anyway so why not. My Pug is 38lbs plus me at 215lbs. the weight of the tube wont make bit of difference to me.

    Just my 2 cents i hope it helps. I know this was a big nutshell!

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