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  1. #1
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    Anyone running heavy duty motorcycle tubes in Larrys?

    This is my first post, so if this topic has been covered just shoot me a link to the thread.

    I never want another flat on my rear Pugsley tire. Currently running standard Surly 4" PV tubes in Larrys with Stan's. Works fine on thorns and staples but took two Stan's showers lately and subsequent roadside repairs due to larger objects (twig, square rock) that should not be penetrating any bike tire IMO.

    I have ordered a pair of 80/100-21" HD moto tubes with 3mm thick rubber. I plan to fill them with Stan's too. Found no info on the Interweb regarding the HD tubes. Yes, I know they are heavy and will slow me down - I don't care. I am a strong cyclist with 18 granny gears to choose from and in no rush, although 40 minutes to fix a puncture is ridiculous so...slow is better than stop. FYI - I can fix a standard puncture on a 26x2 or 29x2 in 15 minutes using CO2.

    My Pugs is about 6 years old and I have never been in love with Larry's or Endomorphs as they seem like giant inner-tubes with treads. Fine on snow and at the beach. I wanna ride Pugs all the time - cactus, city streets, farm roads, single track, mud, gravel, limestone, broken glass, everything. I just don't want a used toothpick flatting me.

    ANY experience - success or failures - would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Maybe try 27 tpi Nates and/or a tubeless setup.

  3. #3
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    jeepers, I rode the crap out of my Larrys on tech terrain before I went to other tires and I think I had like 2 flats ever, both were pinch flats. What causes the 40 minute repair? I always just carry a 26"x2.5 or so DH tube for if/when I flat.
    '15 Specialized Fatboy
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    What causes the 40 minute repair?
    1. Ride Pugsley, get a punture...
    2. Find a place to work...
    3. Shift to small cog rear...
    4. Remove chain from front chainring...
    5. Loosen rear disk caliper, move it up, tighten in place...
    6. Remove QR skewer altogether...
    7. Pull chain off rear cog and wrap around horizontal dropout...
    8. Slide wheel out of frame...
    9. Grab flat fix bag...
    10. Squeeze tire all around to unseat beads...
    11. Pry one bead off and remove tire/tube from hoop...
    12. Pull tube out and grab a rag...
    13. Wipe Stan's sealant from inside of tire and outside of tube, off my face, etc.
    14. Partially inflate spare tube with 16 gram CO2... (or patch tube)
    15. Put tire and tube on hoop...
    16. Add more CO2 and check bead all around...
    17. Use another CO2...
    18. Use another CO2...
    19. Pry frozen CO2 off of hand hopefully without skin...
    20. Slide wheel back into dropouts and brake rotor under caliper while holding two Karate Monkey spacers in place in dropout simultaneously (otherwise my front derailleur rubs the rear tire in low gear)...
    21. Replace chain on small cog...
    22. Insert skewer, attach skewer nut, tighten...
    23. Replace chain on front chainring...
    24. Make sure wheel is in frame properly by spinning and looking at it...
    25. Adjust brake caliper properly to rotor...
    26. Pack up the tools, dead tube, wet rag, etc...
    27. Ride.
    28. Pray to every popular deity that I don't flat again.

    Took me ten minutes just to type that.

    OK.. My goal is this:

    1. Ride Pugsley all day.
    2. Return home and check tires for debris.
    3. Take a nap.
    4. Deal with whatever may be sticking in my tires at my leisure inside my warm office.
    5. Live happily ever after. (Or until next ride).

    If anyone can shortcut my flat fix schedule I am all ears. But I am not riding single speed. Part of the time issue comes from running a rear derailleur in horizontal dropouts. If the Pug had vertical dropouts I would probably save 5-10 minutes.

  5. #5
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    Anyone running heavy duty motorcycle tubes in Larrys?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    1. Ride Pugsley, get a punture...
    2. Find a place to work...
    3. Shift to small cog rear...
    4. Remove chain from front chainring...
    5. Loosen rear disk caliper, move it up, tighten in place...
    6. Remove QR skewer altogether...
    7. Pull chain off rear cog and wrap around horizontal dropout...
    8. Slide wheel out of frame...
    9. Grab flat fix bag...
    10. Squeeze tire all around to unseat beads...
    11. Pry one bead off and remove tire/tube from hoop...
    12. Pull tube out and grab a rag...
    13. Wipe Stan's sealant from inside of tire and outside of tube, off my face, etc.
    14. Partially inflate spare tube with 16 gram CO2... (or patch tube)
    15. Put tire and tube on hoop...
    16. Add more CO2 and check bead all around...
    17. Use another CO2...
    18. Use another CO2...
    19. Pry frozen CO2 off of hand hopefully without skin...
    20. Slide wheel back into dropouts and brake rotor under caliper while holding two Karate Monkey spacers in place in dropout simultaneously (otherwise my front derailleur rubs the rear tire in low gear)...
    21. Replace chain on small cog...
    22. Insert skewer, attach skewer nut, tighten...
    23. Replace chain on front chainring...
    24. Make sure wheel is in frame properly by spinning and looking at it...
    25. Adjust brake caliper properly to rotor...
    26. Pack up the tools, dead tube, wet rag, etc...
    27. Ride.
    28. Pray to every popular deity that I don't flat again.

    Took me ten minutes just to type that.

    OK.. My goal is this:

    1. Ride Pugsley all day.
    2. Return home and check tires for debris.
    3. Take a nap.
    4. Deal with whatever may be sticking in my tires at my leisure inside my warm office.
    5. Live happily ever after. (Or until next ride).

    If anyone can shortcut my flat fix schedule I am all ears. But I am not riding single speed. Part of the time issue comes from running a rear derailleur in horizontal dropouts. If the Pug had vertical dropouts I would probably save 5-10 minutes.
    You are making it too complicated.

    If #1 happens, there is no need to do numbers 4, 6, or 7 and eliminates 22 and 23.
    Since the sealant is not working anyway, stop using it and 13 goes away.
    Get a pump and 14, 16, 17, and 18 will be easier and faster, and 19 does not happen.
    Use a bit of glue and 20 is a nonissue.
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    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    You are making it too complicated.

    If #1 happens, there is no need to do numbers 4, 6, or 7 and eliminates 22 and 23.
    Since the sealant is not working anyway, stop using it and 13 goes away.
    Get a pump and 14, 16, 17, and 18 will be easier and faster, and 19 does not happen.
    Use a bit of glue and 20 is a nonissue.
    Thanks for the info. But without Stan's, which works 95% of the time I would fix one or two flats a week.

    I also didn't mention my rear derailleur is a SRAM X9 - probably the worst choice I could have made. Trust me, gotta pull the skewer out, pull the chain around the stay to free up the cassette for sliding the wheel straight out of the dropout. It is actually very easy, just a lot of steps.

    Gluing the Karate Monkey spacers is a good idea. Never thought of that because they are washer shaped, not "C" shaped. Guess I could cut a slot with no harm done.

    I have heard that it might be possible to grind a bit of the rear caliper housing enough to free the rotor, thus eliminating the need to move the caliper every time.

    It could be 100F and 100% humidity (where I live) while humping a hand pump a few hundred strokes as insects are carving me up. CO2 is a must. But CO2 will STILL freeze to a hand in hot weather. I coat my cartridges in old inner-tubes but now and then bare metal touches my sweaty palm.

    Again, thanks for taking the time.

  7. #7
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    Joey, I hear ya. It didn't take too many flats before I was done with the flats on the fattie. I did try some motorcycle tubes as well since I have a good friend with a motorcycle shop. They are a lot heavier and I didn't like how they expanded.

    You need to step up and just do tubeless. Yes, it takes maybe an hour setting them up the first time but it's easy after that. Just ride.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Joey, I hear ya. It didn't take too many flats before I was done with the flats on the fattie. I did try some motorcycle tubes as well since I have a good friend with a motorcycle shop. They are a lot heavier and I didn't like how they expanded.

    You need to step up and just do tubeless. Yes, it takes maybe an hour setting them up the first time but it's easy after that. Just ride.
    Thanks for the note! I knew someone out there must have given it a shot. I think if the tubes don't fit well I will just fillet them and make "tuffy" liners and see how that works.

    I guess the tubeless approach would do no more harm than a Surly 4" tube full of Stan's. But the tires just pop so easily around town. My hopes and dreams are to eliminate punctures by all but the gnarliest of objects - knitting needles and railroad spikes. If the tube is thicker than the tire it stands to reason that Stan's would have a better shot at sealing such a tube, and normal pointy objects would have to go through almost 4x as much rubber in the first place.

    I will certainly post my results and findings no matter what. Since my Pugs is not a single speed I will just gear down to get the heavy rubber rolling. I shift a bike like a race car anyway.

    Good info. Thank again.

  9. #9
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    I went ghetto tubeless over a month ago and have not had any issues. They barely leak down over time and the ride improves. I run them at about 8 to 8.5 lbs of air and ride all sorts of terrain. I hate flats too and have not had a single flat on any of my bikes since going tubeless.

  10. #10
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    OK. Lots of votes for tubeless. If my MC tube attempt fails I know what direction to take.

  11. #11
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    Try burlier tyres like the Vee Rubber Missions with tubes and sealant. They are much sturdier than my surly tyres.

    I was trucking along on my pug with the Vee Rubber tyres and be fore I knew what hit me i crunched right over a bunch of sharp broken bottle glass. I feared the worst but found no damage what so ever.

    That could be a good solution.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaultbrad View Post
    Try burlier tyres like the Vee Rubber Missions with tubes and sealant. They are much sturdier than my surly tyres.
    It would seem to me that anything that would punch a hole through a tire and spew out Stan's would puncture a MC tube.

    I use MC tubes in my dualsport bike and they are burly enough they might resist smaller thorns, but tubeless or "normal" fat bike tubes with sealant would handle those.

    I'm not a fan of heavy duty stiff tires in general, but if you are getting repeated major punctures then it might be necessary.
    Safe riding,

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  13. #13
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    I have found the Origin 8 Devist8er to be a good tire to avoid flats. It it heavy (4lbs per tire) put I have had only one flat (a mysterious one, never did find the source) in a year of use.

  14. #14
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    The Vee Rubber Missions sure are heavy (approx. 1800g) and the accompanying Vee Rubber tubes look pretty beefy as well. But for $33 and $11 respectively, I'm happy with this for a Summer Tire setup.

    I don't wan't to wear down soft and expensive Surly or 45 North rubber while riding around town and on rocky trails.

  15. #15
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    I used to get lots of flats and I tried everything to avoid them. Beefy tyres and tubes are what works best for me. I won't bother with sealant ever again. I run downhill tyres on my mountain bikes and the Origin8 Devist8ers on my fatbike and I haven't had a flat for a long time.

    I like the look of the Surly Bud & Lou tyres but I won't put them on my Moonlander because I can do without stick punctures:

    Milltown Cycles: So this happened.


  16. #16
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    Great info everyone. Was not aware of Origon8 Devist8er and looks like Vee Rubber also makes motorcycle tubes.

    All good to know. Thanks.

  17. #17
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    You could line your tires with kevlar fabric.......

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatsinglespeeder View Post
    I used to get lots of flats and I tried everything to avoid them. Beefy tyres and tubes are what works best for me. I won't bother with sealant ever again. I run downhill tyres on my mountain bikes and the Origin8 Devist8ers on my fatbike and I haven't had a flat for a long time.

    I like the look of the Surly Bud & Lou tyres but I won't put them on my Moonlander because I can do without stick punctures:

    Milltown Cycles: So this happened.

    why are there no spokes on the left side of that rear wheel?

  19. #19
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    The rear wheel of a Surly Moonlander is offset..........alot.

  20. #20
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    I don't think that heavy duty tubes would work that well. As a lightweight rider I have some problems with tubes not filling the whole tire at riding pressures. It's not that I can't use them, but I'm pretty sure that the tire would work alot better if that didn't happen. Using stronger tubes would probably make it even worse.

  21. #21
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    I use the thin Surly inner tubes with my Devist8ers because I couldn't find anything better and it works surprisingly well, no flats yet. The Devist8ers have a kevlar belt and that might help as well.

  22. #22
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    i run heavy duty motorcycle tubes in my pug too... and iam happy with them...

    ... i used some blue kenda (smurf spe**) tire sealeant, it worked fine till the day where my backwheel found a 8 inch nail... no problem since then again... and i round low pressures too. (5-8psi)...
    ...in my eyes the motorcycle tubes run more constantly than normal DH tubes or high-quality bike tubes...

    ...but you where right they are a bit more heavier...

  23. #23
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  24. #24
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    JoeyBike,
    I use stock Surly Toobs with about 4-6oz of Slime in each one. I rode over 90 miles in the west TX Desert with no flats. All my riding buddies on this trip all flatted at least once. Some pinched some punctured. I did a lot of research here on MTBR and other sites and here is what i found in a nutshell.

    1. Stans is not meant for tubes. period it is made for tubless setups and designed specifically for sealing the bead on NON-UST type rim wheel combos. not knocking Stans (Great Product) just not good in tubes. plus you have to keep adding more every 3-4 months and you never will get the Stans booger out of the tube.

    2. Slime is Fast, Cheap and Easy. just like fast food and drunk college chicks! you can remove the core and squeeze in the desired amount, reinsert core and ride!!!

    3. Best option that I have read about but not tried is another sealant called Flat Attack. this is supposed to be the best for tubes.

    4. Go Ghetto Tubless! I actually prefer tubes myself. You have to carry a spare tube anyway so why not. My Pug is 38lbs plus me at 215lbs. the weight of the tube wont make bit of difference to me.

    Just my 2 cents i hope it helps. I know this was a big nutshell!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcomeaux View Post
    JoeyBike,
    3. Best option that I have read about but not tried is another sealant called Flat Attack. this is supposed to be the best for tubes.
    I checked out their website and according to their "fill calculator" ended up with a recommendation of 12 1/2 ounces (~$13) for each 29" OD by 4" wide sized fat tire. That seems like a lot to me, compared to 4-6 ounces of Slime.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcomeaux View Post
    JoeyBike,
    I use stock Surly Toobs with about 4-6oz of Slime in each one. I rode over 90 miles in the west TX Desert with no flats. All my riding buddies on this trip all flatted at least once. Some pinched some punctured. I did a lot of research here on MTBR and other sites and here is what i found in a nutshell.

    1. Stans is not meant for tubes. period it is made for tubless setups and designed specifically for sealing the bead on NON-UST type rim wheel combos. not knocking Stans (Great Product) just not good in tubes. plus you have to keep adding more every 3-4 months and you never will get the Stans booger out of the tube.

    2. Slime is Fast, Cheap and Easy. just like fast food and drunk college chicks! you can remove the core and squeeze in the desired amount, reinsert core and ride!!!

    3. Best option that I have read about but not tried is another sealant called Flat Attack. this is supposed to be the best for tubes.

    4. Go Ghetto Tubless! I actually prefer tubes myself. You have to carry a spare tube anyway so why not. My Pug is 38lbs plus me at 215lbs. the weight of the tube wont make bit of difference to me.

    Just my 2 cents i hope it helps. I know this was a big nutshell!
    All good advice.

    I don't think any sealant would have cured the last two punctures I got. This is why I was thinking about super thick tubes as neither of those two blunt objects would have penetrated the thickness of a decent city tire, which does not exist for FatBikes yet.

    Stan's is not perfect for sure but it has sealed dozens of "reasonable" punctures from thorns, staples, tacks, etc. When we start talking about shards of glass, tire/tube thickness is the best cure as I have found Slime to be worthless for glass punctures. Slime is the best for thorns I agree. I am fighting a different battle - glass and flint (tiny sharp rocks). Slime just makes a huge mess inside the tire if it fails to stop the leak. Stan's evaporates and sort of just disappears in a few minutes after dumping the liquid portion out of the tire. Even patches take just fine after the Stan's evaporates.

    I know many here have recommended tubeless as a cure but LESS rubber can't help my situation. My best cure is more rubber. Or a tire with a tough liner built in. Sealants are good insurance for sure and I hope sealants will be even more effective inside of a thick tube. Stan's should last longer inside a thick tube as well.

    I will know soon. The Moto tubes are on the way. 3mm thick. Will let you all know how the installation goes and how much the ride changes.

    Cheers!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm244 View Post
    I checked out their website and according to their "fill calculator" ended up with a recommendation of 12 1/2 ounces (~$13) for each 29" OD by 4" wide sized fat tire. That seems like a lot to me, compared to 4-6 ounces of Slime.
    I never used the recommended amount. I'm sure you are supposed to use more slime than i did. The Flat Attack is supposed to be a better sealant for tubes because it doesnt dry up as fast as some others. the other option is to get a Chemistry set and make a home brew sealant. there are plenty of recipes out there for this.

  28. #28
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    Okay Joey, here is your solution. It is advertised as flat proof. The great part, if you order right now, it is on sale for only $161.99 and qualifies for free shipping. It is the Michelin Bib Mousse Flat-Proof Competition Foam Tube.

    Michelin Bib Mousse Flat-Proof Competition Foam Tube - Dirt Bike Motocross - Motorcycle Superstore

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    Okay Joey, here is your solution. It is advertised as flat proof. The great part, if you order right now, it is on sale for only $161.99 and qualifies for free shipping. It is the Michelin Bib Mousse Flat-Proof Competition Foam Tube.

    Michelin Bib Mousse Flat-Proof Competition Foam Tube - Dirt Bike Motocross - Motorcycle Superstore
    HaHa! I like it! I would spend $160 in a heartbeat.

    After reading the specs and user reviews however:

    **Note: Specifically designed for off-road competition use for speeds up to 80 mph (130 km/h). Above this speed, heat build-up can lead to rapid destruction of the Bib Mousse, resulting in serious injury to the rider. Under no circumstances should Bib Mousse be fitted to motorcycles for on-road use.

    I am sure the weight of that thing would prevent me from pedaling 80mph (not to mention my gears are too low for much over 18mph) and I don't think Pugs could do 80mph dropped from a weather balloon. But the issue is heat and my commute has stretches of tarmac that can reach 130F during our summer months (New Orleans, LA USA). According to the reviews the heat causes the foam to expand and blow the bead off the hoop.

    Here are some photos of my commute to highlight why I like to use the Pugs when it involves some city streets. I don't think many people are using a FatBike like this.

  30. #30
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    What kinds of pressures are you running? I ask as the only flats I have gotten were one when I ripped the valve out of the tube and one where the presta valve was slightly open and I was unaware of it.

    I've ridden in all kinds of terrain, roads, and bike trail underpasses here in Anchorage that are generally covered with broken glass and never punctured, which I attribute a lot to running lower pressures.

    Have you thought of splitting an old tube to run as a liner between the tire and the tube?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockphi View Post
    What kinds of pressures are you running? I ask as the only flats I have gotten were one when I ripped the valve out of the tube and one where the presta valve was slightly open and I was unaware of it.

    I've ridden in all kinds of terrain, roads, and bike trail underpasses here in Anchorage that are generally covered with broken glass and never punctured, which I attribute a lot to running lower pressures.

    Have you thought of splitting an old tube to run as a liner between the tire and the tube?
    I usually run my tires around 15psi to avoid pinch flats from bouncing up and down cement curbs. I notice a lot of the folks here run 10 or less. Maybe that is a factor.

    Yes, if the Motorcycle tubes I just ordered don't fit well I plan to fillet them and use as liners.

  32. #32
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    I wouldn't worry about temps of the Bib Mousse - check the temp of a car tire when it's just off the freeway - too hot to touch. I think it's more of a non-DOT approved thing.

    Also, in this review: PLUSES-AND-MINUSES-OF-THE-BIB They state that GP riders use them - that would be high speed/heat, but not long term. They also qoute the weight at 1 lb, and the equivalent pressure at 8psi. MCSuperstore lists equiv pressure at 13psi. And one random forum comment said 3 lb weight.

    I run 21" tubes, since m/c 21" is bead seat diameter and 559mm=22". Bib in 21" size is max 90/100, so 90mm width and 100% ratio with height, or also 90mm inside to outside.

    Since I live in the SW desert, I can tell you I sympathize with your plight. Everything that grows here has a thorn on it, it seems.

    Standard m/c tubes with DIY latex sealant work ok-ish, but still get flats - and when you get the flat you find all the holes that "were" sealed. I'm working towards the equivalent of TuBliss - a lightweight tubed "tire" that fits inside the main tire, works as an inflatable bead lock for it, and supports burpless tubeless which I need for my trails/area.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  33. #33
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    are there any Mr. Tuffy plastic tire liners available that would be wide enough to do the trick?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    are there any Mr. Tuffy plastic tire liners available that would be wide enough to do the trick?
    I gave up thinking about tire liners after reading Mr. Tuffy's FAQ page where they stated they tried making motorcycle Tuffys but eventually gave up. They figured the relatively low pressure and the ability to go from zero to whipped cream rotation instantly prevented success. I figure if Mr. Tuffy tried and failed I shouldn't waste much of my time with that.

    I also read on the Web somewhere that a fellow tried the widest Tuffy and it just balled up inside the tire after a couple of rides. Effing nightmare.

    I was considering using a strip of "tow rope" made of nylon webbing about 2.5 inches in width available at Home Depot and such. I just figured the cut edges would rub through a tube and flat me a different way.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Standard m/c tubes with DIY latex sealant work ok-ish, but still get flats - and when you get the flat you find all the holes that "were" sealed.
    I could not believe the number of holes Stan's fixed permanently in my standard Surly tubes. I ran over a whole clip of construction staples once and picked up a dozen of them. I just ripped them out of the bubbling holes, spun the wheel and heard them go silent. I rode that tube for over a year without any further repair. Amazing.

    So I hope Stan's in an even thicker tube will take that to the next level as hopefully the puncture will be small enough inside of the tube by the time a shard penetrates the tire and 3mm of tube.

    We shall see very soon.

    Thanks for all the good advice. That foam inner tire is interesting for sure. I would love to be able to experiment with that a bit without just tossing $160 in the bin along with all the other failed attempts.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    I gave up thinking about tire liners after reading Mr. Tuffy's FAQ page where they stated they tried making motorcycle Tuffys but eventually gave up. They figured the relatively low pressure and the ability to go from zero to whipped cream rotation instantly prevented success. I figure if Mr. Tuffy tried and failed I shouldn't waste much of my time with that.

    I also read on the Web somewhere that a fellow tried the widest Tuffy and it just balled up inside the tire after a couple of rides. Effing nightmare.

    I was considering using a strip of "tow rope" made of nylon webbing about 2.5 inches in width available at Home Depot and such. I just figured the cut edges would rub through a tube and flat me a different way.
    I live in Canada and mostly ride my fatbike in winter on frozen rivers, but like to ride it in technical rocky terrain in the summer as well. The issue of flats has never happened, and I've been riding fat since the purple pugsley came out (original). However, I do have a bit of experience with avoiding flats. If I recall correctly, mr. Tuffy is a thick plastic liner, nothing all that special. When I was a kid I made my own using crazy carpet in my BMX tires - Crazy Canuck Carpet
    Cut it up and make any size strips you need. Very cheap as you can see in the link - us Canucks are frugal, and don't gouge.

    Now, I also ride in Arizona desert and haven't had huge flat issues, but can see how that can happen. I cannot imagine any needle getting through crazy carpet.

    Just putting that out there if people are looking for a liner that is very strong.

  37. #37
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    No offense, but I haven't seen anyone commenting on the time to change a 26 or 29 tire at 15 minutes with CO2. Am I the only one here that can change a tire/tube in either a 26 or 29 tire much faster, with CO2?

    I would estimate it would take me less than 5 minutes assuming QR skewers. Heck, I could do (and have, a number of times) a 700c tire/tube in under 5 minutes, maybe under 3 with practice - and that's with slowing down when I realize I flatted, shifting to the biggest gear, taking the wheel out and putting everything back, completely filled, ready to ride.

    Really, 15 minutes to change a simple 26 or 29 tube is leaving time to drink a pint and have a smoke. If you want to reduce this time, I would suggest giving up the cigarettes if pressed to decide between the two...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc View Post
    No offense, but I haven't seen anyone commenting on the time to change a 26 or 29 tire at 15 minutes with CO2. Am I the only one here that can change a tire/tube in either a 26 or 29 tire much faster, with CO2?

    I would estimate it would take me less than 5 minutes assuming QR skewers.
    If the puncture is obvious, 5 minutes. If you have to blow up the tube, find the hole, compare tube to tire, discover the tiny wire, thorn tip, or staple prong hidden in the tread, (or nothing at all because the offending item fell out) - that inspection is going to take ten extra minutes generally. And if you run liquid sealant you gotta clean that mess up before any of this^^ can happen.

    I would say half of my punctures require tube/tire inspection before commencing repair. Why put in a new tube and get the same flat twice by overlooking some small sharp bit?

    Also, where I live and bike, the heat index most days will be over 100F in the shade, if you can find shade. The instant you stop cycling sweat will pour like a shower. This fact tends to slow things down a bit too.

    There is one on every forum.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc View Post
    When I was a kid I made my own using crazy carpet in my BMX tires - Crazy Canuck Carpet
    Cut it up and make any size strips you need. Very cheap...
    That is interesting. What is the thickness of CCC? Is is solid hard but flexible plastic or more like foam rubber?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    If the puncture is obvious, 5 minutes. If you have to blow up the tube, find the hole, compare tube to tire, discover the tiny wire, thorn tip, or staple prong hidden in the tread, (or nothing at all because the offending item fell out) - that inspection is going to take ten extra minutes generally. And if you run liquid sealant you gotta clean that mess up before any of this^^ can happen.

    I would say half of my punctures require tube/tire inspection before commencing repair. Why put in a new tube and get the same flat twice by overlooking some small sharp bit?

    Also, where I live and bike, the heat index most days will be over 100F in the shade, if you can find shade. The instant you stop cycling sweat will pour like a shower. This fact tends to slow things down a bit too.

    There is one on every forum.
    Spare me, and everyone else, the rhetoric of "there's one on every forum" crap - it isn't needed. While I appreciate the explanation, and it is well thought out, it still does not take 10 minutes to inspect a tire for offending foreign objects. In an instance where I can't find a foreign object in the tire, I have taken the time to match up the hole in the tube (always being careful to put the tube down on the ground the same way I took it out so I know the orientation) to ensure there is not a lingering piece of metal wire from a radial car tire lodged in my tread. I've learned this the hard way, as has my better half (she flatted 3 times in one ride preparing for ironman).

    It still doesn't take 10 minutes to complete this task. Not for me, not for my wife.

    I know what I said about changing a tire challenged your statement, and made you feel defensive. Sorry if you feel uncomfortable.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck Doc View Post
    Spare me, and everyone else, the rhetoric of "there's one on every forum" crap - it isn't needed.
    True. I am sure you are well known here.

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    Bike Tire Liners :: TurtleSkin SpinSkins

    these don't seem to be available any more through this site, but something like this may work. It was made from woven aramid or UHMWPE like the bulletproof vests. Maybe you can just get some of the fabric used for vests, and glue strips to the inside of the tire, and a layer of foam inside of that.
    I mainly had problems with the Surly 120tpi tires, when I had a Moonlander to use for a while. The twigs that would go right through a BFL, seem to be repelled by my OnOne Floater tires. Have you already tried just switching to the VeeRubber or O8 tires? I think the Origin8 fat tires have a puncture protection belt of Kevlar.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Bike Tire Liners :: TurtleSkin SpinSkins

    these don't seem to be available any more through this site, but something like this may work. It was made from woven aramid or UHMWPE like the bulletproof vests. Maybe you can just get some of the fabric used for vests, and glue strips to the inside of the tire, and a layer of foam inside of that.
    I mainly had problems with the Surly 120tpi tires, when I had a Moonlander to use for a while. The twigs that would go right through a BFL, seem to be repelled by my OnOne Floater tires. Have you already tried just switching to the VeeRubber or O8 tires? I think the Origin8 fat tires have a puncture protection belt of Kevlar.
    I thought of a layer of Ballistics Nylon between tire and tube as well. Now that I know about the O8 tires (thanks to this thread) I think I will try those if my moto-tube experiment fails.

  44. #44
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    the O8 tires sound like a good Idea anyways if you are putting that many city street miles on. $47 compared to $150, and a much more durable tire.

    Most people here say that people not willing to get on board with the fatbike movement are complaining about weight. My biggest complaint is overpriced tires and rims. I think vee rubber is going to be coming out with some more tread patterns, and probably some lighter tires to change the tire side though.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    Most people here say that people not willing to get on board with the fatbike movement are complaining about weight. My biggest complaint is overpriced tires and rims.
    In a communication with Surly last week I was told by them that the vast majority were complaining about weight, so no way in Hell were they planning to make heavier tires or tubes.

    Paying a hundred bucks for a TIRE is fine with me. Paying a hundred bucks for a glorified inner tube with tread is BS. This is my opinion of the Endomorph and the Larry is not much of an improvement. Obviously, you and I don't drive this market.

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    OK...the jury is in on the HEAVY DUTY MC TUBES...

    FAIL!

    Tubes arrived today. Inflated one Surly tube inside of an old Endomorph off the bike. Then inflated the MC tube to the same size and compared OD and ID. Looked really good!

    I then drilled out the valve hole in the hoop to accept schrader valve. Installed the tube and tire on Large Marge. Not bad. A little harder to seat last bit of bead. Acceptable.

    Filled the tube with air up to 15 psi. Nice. Let air out to less than 10psi - still pretty good. Ready to ride. But wait... What if I get a flat now?

    Practice removing the tire. Uh...removing the tire...Hmmm. Can't get the freaking tire off the hoop. Even with the valve core pulled out of it, the body of the heavy duty tube is preventing the beads of the tire from leaving the hook of the rim all the way around. I struggled for a while. Thought I might have to cut the tire off of the wheel. Dang. Tried a bunch of different approaches and finally got a lever to slide the bead over the hook of the rim. Little by little I got it off. Whew.

    Definitely not going through that in the field.

    Filleted the HD tube to use as a tire liner. Nearly impossible to get it to stay in place to mount the tire back on the rim. Way more trouble than just fixing an honest flat tire.

    So that's that. So close. $25 down a rat hole.

    Next thing to try is Devist8er tires and some sealant as suggested by several of you. So Thanks!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    FAIL!

    Tubes arrived today. Inflated one Surly tube inside of an old Endomorph off the bike. Then inflated the MC tube to the same size and compared OD and ID. Looked really good!

    I then drilled out the valve hole in the hoop to accept schrader valve. Installed the tube and tire on Large Marge. Not bad. A little harder to seat last bit of bead. Acceptable.

    Filled the tube with air up to 15 psi. Nice. Let air out to less than 10psi - still pretty good. Ready to ride. But wait... What if I get a flat now?

    Practice removing the tire. Uh...removing the tire...Hmmm. Can't get the freaking tire off the hoop. Even with the valve core pulled out of it, the body of the heavy duty tube is preventing the beads of the tire from leaving the hook of the rim all the way around. I struggled for a while. Thought I might have to cut the tire off of the wheel. Dang. Tried a bunch of different approaches and finally got a lever to slide the bead over the hook of the rim. Little by little I got it off. Whew.

    Definitely not going through that in the field.

    Filleted the HD tube to use as a tire liner. Nearly impossible to get it to stay in place to mount the tire back on the rim. Way more trouble than just fixing an honest flat tire.

    So that's that. So close. $25 down a rat hole.

    Next thing to try is Devist8er tires and some sealant as suggested by several of you. So Thanks!

    well you gave it an honest shot- good on ya!

    I was frustrated with having many flats from goatheads and stuff, when I decided to do a test with some DIY Tyvek tire liners, and some slime. since then - 0 flats. Not sure that it will work for everyone, but it seems to work for me!
    tyvec tire liners on fat bikes

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    ..Tried a bunch of different approaches and finally got a lever to slide the bead over the hook of the rim...
    Pooh, I was hoping for a win! Did the different attempts include laying the wheel down and stepping on the sidewall right next to the rim? That's never failed to work for me with bicycle tire bead seals that that resisted tire tools, but I suspect there's a spoiler for every never-fail technique just waiting to to bite the over confident in the heinie.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm244 View Post
    Did the different attempts include laying the wheel down and stepping on the sidewall right next to the rim?
    Yes. The thick tube has "body" i.e., even with zero pressure the tube stays round and is difficult to compress. The MC tube is also a little smaller than the Surly tube which jams it against the inside of the rim and therefore against the tire bead all the way around. I think with two or three people squeezing the beads together at once it would have been OK. Good reason to bike with friends. Make sure they have big strong hands.

  50. #50
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    Try the FatSand bike tires and 26x4 tubes at 6-8 bucks per tube. They work great.

    I use commercial 2" Velcro one strip for rim strips with clown shoes and that makes the inner tube very well protected using the Tommysea tires.
    I LOVE ORANGE keep them coming, if I wanted to change I would have done it 50-60 years ago....

  51. #51
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    Hey, thanks. Willing to try any idea at this point.

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