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  1. #1
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    Anyone here use studded fat tires?

    I've had my 2013 Moonlander for about a month now, and even though I've been having a blast running it over mtn bike trails and sand beaches, my main reason to pick it up was to help keep my sanity during the cold winter months in SE Wisconsin. I have a winter commuter with 700x35c studded tires, but I also want to use the fat bike for snowy, icy conditions.

    I'm thinking of getting a Lou and a Bud and maybe setting some studs into them. I've seen a pic (on the Grip Studs website, I believe) that has them installed on a BFL. I'm concerned with the tread on that tire being deep enough to fully set the studs though. Anyone here have experience with that? Or would I just be best to get the Lou and Bud and install studs in them? I would rather not spend the extra dough on the new tires, but I'm also wondering how they (even without studs) would be better in snow than the BFLs. Any input would be appreciated!
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  2. #2
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    BFL's are not great to stud, it is possible but you will probably loose a few (half a dozen or so studs) during the season, but mostly they just don't sit nice due to the shallow tread depth. I only tried a studded front BFL. I don't even want to speculate how badly things would be on the rear. If you want to stud tires, Bud, Lou are great candidates in the mega fatty category.

  3. #3
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    If you're not careful, you can put a Grip Stud through a Nate lug. If you're careful, a Nate (and by extension, Bud and Lou) would work just fine. I'm thinking a Larry studded using Grip Studs would definitely have punctured casings.

    I have some old school Larry tires that I studded using automotive carbide studs, from inside the casing outward, then added a liner. Getting the liner to stick is an enormous pain in the ass, but does work. Getting the studs cheaply is also a pain in the ass. It can (possibly) be done through Tikka Spikes Oy in Finland, that was an interesting conversation with a banking rep. The folks in Finland weren't eager to do another shipment so YMMV. And even then they are really only good for pre-fab tires that are ready for standard bike tire studs, such as the 45NRTH Dillinger.

    I've been messing with studded fat tires for a handful of seasons.

    Your options are grim.

    A) Buy a Nate / Bud / Lou ($$$), and Grip Stud them ($$$). Expensive and some sweat equity but not too bad on the latter concern.
    B) Buy an On One Floater perhaps, and stud them with with something. Could potentially be cheap, potentially lots of sweat equity.
    C) Buy some studded Dillinger tires ($$$$$!). Expensive but zero hassle.

    Sorry for the gloom and doom, but I want you to know what to expect.
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  4. #4
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    Another thing is that studded fatbike tires don't grip as well as studded thin tires, at least not on ice. I commuted for about 8 years on studded thin tires and fell maybe twice. Now look at my profile picture. Yup those fat tires were studded and that wasn't the only time I fell with them on last winter. I think the problem is that there is still a lot of rubber in contact with the ice on a studded fat tire and rubber doesn't grip ice well. My recommendation is to just use the thin studded tires on very icy days and use the fat bike with non-studded tires on other days.
    Last edited by Lars_D; 10-17-2013 at 12:31 AM.
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  5. #5
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    ...I really like how my NIB folding Dillingers smell...
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  6. #6
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    I haven't done any fat tires, but I've made three sets of 29er tires. I use screws put in from the inside of the tire. Even on tires without big lugs this works, of course you have to hit the lug, which sometimes means you have to drill from the outside first (I use an old spoke as a drill so I don't remove too much material). Once I have the screws in I use a bolt cutter to cut the tips of the screws off as close to the rubber as possible, if you don't do that you end up picking up a lot of leaves on bare spots. I have never been completely successful with a liner, going tubeless is much easier.

    Interesting point by Lars above though, I was considering making some studded fat tires for this winter, maybe its not such a good idea. This past winter I had a memorable ride on a frozen stream, I love ice riding.

  7. #7
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    Thanks, guys.

    I wonder how the studded 45NRTH Dillinger tires would work on 100mm Clown Shoe rims. Do you suppose that the narrower tire being used on this rim would allow more studs to contact the ice, since that tire/rim combination would flatten out the tire even more than a narrower rim?
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  8. #8
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    Last winter I ran a studded Bud in the front of my Necro Pugsley and Studded Nate in the rear. Wicked traction but very noisy on pavement. Between the tires and screw in grip studs its about $300 a tire. I had a warranty replacement on my Nate for the interior starting to crumble off, so I need to stud up a Lou for the Moonlander I'm using this winter.

    The 120 tpi tire compound is very soft so you need to be careful installing the studs, using a power tool probably isn't an option. Although grip studs are removable, I don't think the lugs would survive repeated installations.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by marathon marke View Post
    Thanks, guys.

    I wonder how the studded 45NRTH Dillinger tires would work on 100mm Clown Shoe rims. Do you suppose that the narrower tire being used on this rim would allow more studs to contact the ice, since that tire/rim combination would flatten out the tire even more than a narrower rim?
    That's the combination I used last winter in the rear. It didn't do that well. Another problem with the Dillingers is that there are no studs down the center. So the studs don't kick in until you are already skidding. I am not saying they are a waste of money, they are not. I have a pair for my fat bike and for my daughter's fat bike and even one for my son's fat unicycle. Its just that they are a disappointment compared to 29er studded tires, which in my opinion grip like magic.
    --Peace

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    My recommendation is to just use the thin studded tires on very icy days and use the fat bike with non-studded tires on other days.
    My recommendation as well. Having both winter weapons makes a big difference in my winter commuting. I can usually tell which bike is better to use by the time I'm down my driveway. The added weight, cost, and rolling resistance of a studded fat tire on a day when it isn't needed would take some enjoyment out of winter riding for me.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by marathon marke View Post
    Thanks, guys.

    I wonder how the studded 45NRTH Dillinger tires would work on 100mm Clown Shoe rims. Do you suppose that the narrower tire being used on this rim would allow more studs to contact the ice, since that tire/rim combination would flatten out the tire even more than a narrower rim?
    Last winter I ran Marge Lites with 45NRTH Escalators partially studded.
    I quickly found out that the contact patch of the fat tire is too big for only a few studs to provide good traction on ice.
    I ended up studding majority of the tread and only leaving out the outer most stud rows.
    My old 26" rigid fork hardtail was still better on ice with Ice Spiker Pros and thus I will modify my fat setup. I figured it was due to more pressure towards the ground on a smaller surface area which is the complete opposite for fatbikes. So potentially you might need to run even larger amount of studs to get comparable traction on exposed ice.
    The riding conditions I face are so varied that my 26" rigid fork hardtail has to step aside and give room to the comfy fatbike during winter months. 26'er is great on pavement and rolls easier, but as soon as I hit anything softer or more uneven the fatbike is the king. I had higher average speeds during my commutes last winter when on the fatbike.


    For the upcoming winter I have built a second wheelset with Clown Shoe rims and still running the same Escalators, but this time completely studded as in 240 per tire.

    My reasoning for the change was to get the edges of the Escalator to hit the ground constantly to provide the much needed traction on ice.
    I have done preliminary pressure testing on gravel and it seems to be a success. All tread lugs are contacting the ground and it should bring more of the much needed traction on exposed ice.

    Winter is still possibly weeks away in Helsinki Finland so testing on ice has to wait.

    Tire profile changed dramatically when swapping from Marge Lites to Clown Shoes. About 10mm more in width and 20mm less height from rim edge to top of tread.
    That would not be a good combo for trails I reckon, but should work well if we end up getting loads of snow. Luckily I have my second wheelset ready to go if needed with Marge Lites and Husker Dus.

    My bike setup is aluminium Beargrease with XX1 drivetrain. Needed some wheelwork to clear all gears fully with the Clown Shoes, but in the end it worked. All fat tires I run are setup split tube tubeless.

    Can't wait for snow and the first proper test runs on the new wheels!

  12. #12
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    I've been reading this gentlemans blog. I noticed he posted about two methods of DIY studding.

    Here is a link.

    I ran studded tires on a normal 26er and it was better.

    - Fat Tire MN -: DIY Studded Tires
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  13. #13
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    Has anyone trying cutting a myriad of little sipes into their tyres?

    I'm thinking of trying it this year.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    That's the combination I used last winter in the rear. It didn't do that well. Another problem with the Dillingers is that there are no studs down the center. So the studs don't kick in until you are already skidding. I am not saying they are a waste of money, they are not. I have a pair for my fat bike and for my daughter's fat bike and even one for my son's fat unicycle. Its just that they are a disappointment compared to 29er studded tires, which in my opinion grip like magic.
    I used 45Nrth Xerxes last year and they have the same basic concept of studs on the outside and none down the middle. I never crashed with em but they did slide a few times then catch which gave me a very strange pudding feeling in my pants.

    They weren't as grippy as my old Nokian Gazza Extremes but they did get the job done. Too bad there's no fat Gazzas because I'd be all over that.

  15. #15
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    Last year I ran Clown Shoes with studded Dillingers on my alum Beargrease all season as well as the ITI. I was very happy with the set up, nothing wrong with extra insurance.
    I will note I am not as comfortable ripping around town (glare, chunky city ice) on them as I am with skinny tire studded tires.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzsteedt View Post
    My bike setup is aluminium Beargrease with XX1 drivetrain. Needed some wheelwork to clear all gears fully with the Clown Shoes, but in the end it worked. All fat tires I run are setup split tube tubeless.
    Do you mind elaborating on the "wheelwork" you did?
    Last edited by FrY10cK; 10-18-2013 at 03:48 AM.

  17. #17
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    I'm with Lars on this.

    I set up an Escalator with studs last year, and found that in my conditions (MTB style riding on icy trails, up and down, not commuting or lake riding) they slipped like mad. Too little pressure to drive the studs home.

    Me? This winter? 29er FS with Schwalbe Ice Spikers as I have in the past, works MUCH better, for my conditions and riding environs.....
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  18. #18
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    Yes, I rode Dillingers last winter, 6 mile 1-way commute (4 trail, 2 road) most days, and some rec-rides on snowmos, and at KT and Millstone. A decent compromise for mixed conditions (when you need a fatbike for part of the ride, but have some sketchy icy sections). Nowhere near the traction of the skinnier MTB tires I have run (homemade with car-studs, ice-spikers or hakkepelittas), but then Dillingers are light enough to leave on for rides or miles where you don't need studs. And no danger of flatting like my homemade studded tires, which is a real plus in winter conditions.

  19. #19
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    I agree with most of the comments about the traction of the Dillingers. It is not even close to the traction of a 26" Nokian Extreme 294.
    I think another part of the problem is... The studs are not long enough to get a good grip.
    I thought I heard a rumor that the 2014 45NRTH versions might have longer studs. That would help.
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  20. #20
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    Thanks, guys. I have a hybrid with 700x35c studded tires I've been using for the past 3 years, and I think I'll stick with that bike for the icy days. Sounds like most of you feel that the skinny studded approach is the better way to go, especially for a commuter ice-bike.
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  21. #21
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    I used 100 grip studs total in my bud and lou's last winter with great success. My main goal was to not go down with a patch of overflow like ice on rides and to be able to enjoy open ice on lake's. Side benefit is you have crazy grip crawling over logs.
    Lao Tzu Cycles: Grip Studs in Bud and Lou
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaredbe View Post
    I used 100 grip studs total in my bud and lou's last winter with great success. My main goal was to not go down with a patch of overflow like ice on rides and to be able to enjoy open ice on lake's. Side benefit is you have crazy grip crawling over logs.
    Lao Tzu Cycles: Grip Studs in Bud and Lou
    Thanks for that link. It seems that you may have found just the right pattern and placement to make them work with these tires!
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  23. #23
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    We used to have a DIY stud thread on here... it's quite a ways back.

    Here's some pic's of my studded Endo's. We get quite a bit of ice around here. And even when we've got some good snow, often there's also patch's of ice that will take you out. Sheet metal screws work dang good. They're very sharp (unless you ride them on the pavement), and you get grip from the threads as well as the points. I use individual "squares" of Gorilla Tape to cover the heads. Individual pieces let the tire flex, expand & contract. Cool thing is, there easily re-studded and you can remove them for summer (I re-tape the holes to help keep water out). I have re-studded these endo's twice and have never had a flat via the studs. On my 100mm rims I stud the outside row(s) and the next row(s) in because of the "flatter top". On my 65's I only stud the 1st row's in from the outside... the rounder profile makes the inside row bite fine and the outside row's point to much to the side. I've ridden these several times on wet, slick ice that you could hardly walk on...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51222326@N04/6514206925/" title="S1040007 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6514206925_c98b5c62b9.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="S1040007"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51222326@N04/6514205455/" title="S1040003 by wardee61, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7175/6514205455_601a409da0.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="S1040003"></a>

    Here's a video from last winter. It's my friend's (on the Fatback) 1st fat bike ride. Plenty of sections would have been ridable w/o studs, others stuff not so much. towards the end, the low sun really shows the sheen on a couple really slick sections.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/MkJniO2p4QA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrY10cK View Post
    Do you mind elaborating on this "wheelwork"? I'm putting together an aluminum Beargrease right now.
    I'm running Middleburn X-type cranks with chainring in the inner most position. That leaves the chainline a bit too close to the tire so I worked around the issue by dishing the rear wheel slightly to the left side.
    So basically I took a few millimeters out of the tire clearance on the left side to provide chain clearance for the tire on the right. Wheel is laced symmetrically, but just dished slightly to the left to clear the XX1 lowest gear.

    You only need to do this with my setup however. If you have better chainline with the cranks you might be able to clear 100mm rims and 4" tires with XX1 without tinkering.

    I'm probably going to modify the spider to put the chainring a little further out and bring the wheel dish more to the center, but I will leave the decision for later when I have put some good testing time on the current setup.

    Or if I'm feeling rich I might grab the new Raceface cranks with a better chainline.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    Another thing is that studded fatbike tires don't grip as well as studded thin tires, at least not on ice. I commuted for about 8 years on studded thin tires and fell maybe twice. Now look at my profile picture. Yup those fat tires were studded and that wasn't the only time I fell with them on last winter. I think the problem is that there is still a lot of rubber in contact with the ice on a studded fat tire and rubber doesn't grip ice well. My recommendation is to just use the thin studded tires on very icy days and use the fat bike with non-studded tires on other days.
    Subscribed. I'm getting my first fat bike in a week or so and it will come with Vee Snowshoe nonstudded. I've been riding for several years on my 29er with Nokian Gazza Extremes as well as commuting on my CX bike with Nokian Hakkepellita and the studded tires are amazing on ice. Around here, the trails often ice up with packing and freeze/thaw cycles. I'm very nervous that a non studded tire is going to have me on my butt once the trails get iced over. So I'm looking into studded tires right away. Definitely sticker shock when I search for the Dillinger tires, but the Vee Studded Snowshoe seems reasonably priced. But I'm also reading that studded tires on the fat bike aren't the game changers that they are on regular bikes. So I'm hesitating on buying some just yet.

  26. #26
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    So what about a more practical use for studded fat tires, for example on trails where the snow has melted and it's off angle or on a corner, or climbing a hill that is to icey for walking, will studs add that extra bit of grip to prevent crashing and kep me on my bike?

    For the most part, I don't need studs, but there is nearly always some ice and it woud nice to have a little more security...

    I have some floaters I could stud, though my preference is to buy an already studded tire; I used to work in a tire shop and I have studded many tires, I don't mind doing it, but it's tedious...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So what about a more practical use for studded fat tires, for example on trails where the snow has melted and it's off angle or on a corner, or climbing a hill that is to icey for walking, will studs add that extra bit of grip to prevent crashing and kep me on my bike?

    For the most part, I don't need studs, but there is nearly always some ice and it woud nice to have a little more security...

    I have some floaters I could stud, though my preference is to buy an already studded tire; I used to work in a tire shop and I have studded many tires, I don't mind doing it, but it's tedious...
    No, they don't have enough grip for off camber ice.
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    Kold Kutters traction is unreal.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars_D View Post
    No, they don't have enough grip for off camber ice.
    unless you using Kold Kutters.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    Subscribed. I'm getting my first fat bike in a week or so and it will come with Vee Snowshoe nonstudded. I've been riding for several years on my 29er with Nokian Gazza Extremes as well as commuting on my CX bike with Nokian Hakkepellita and the studded tires are amazing on ice. Around here, the trails often ice up with packing and freeze/thaw cycles. I'm very nervous that a non studded tire is going to have me on my butt once the trails get iced over. So I'm looking into studded tires right away. Definitely sticker shock when I search for the Dillinger tires, but the Vee Studded Snowshoe seems reasonably priced. But I'm also reading that studded tires on the fat bike aren't the game changers that they are on regular bikes. So I'm hesitating on buying some just yet.
    Studded tires on fatbikes are game-changers if you get a lot of ice, if the snow packs down, it rains on the snow, etc. I bit the bullet last year and got the dillingers and my riding last winter couldn't have been more different than the winter before. I was riding all the time, everywhere, on ice, on snow, etc. When we weren't getting the snow that we were supposed to and there was ice and frozen frosted-over roots, guess how the studded tires hooked up? Like velcro. Anyone who's ever slipped on a wet/frosty root can appreciate that. Get on any "downhill" trail with significant turns and you start to love how the studded tire doesn't immediately start to push out from under you due to the centrifugal force. You can ride harder/pull more Gs, whip the front end securely, etc. The studded tires give you significantly more traction in powder snow too, but their main purpose is to give you more grip when it's icy obviously.

    What they don't do is simply hold a line on significantly off-camber ice, as noted, the pressure is spread over too large of a distance, but when the tire does break loose, it's a controlled slide, not like when it accelerates out from under you on a non-studded tire. While the fatbike studded tires don't grip like skinny studded tires, they are still far better than non-studded tires and offer plenty of traction to do things like ride on frozen lakes. That kind of stuff is downright dangerous to attempt without studs.

    There are quite a few times when you don't need studs (although having them on 5" tires in the soft powder is a bonus IME), but there are quite a few times when you don't need a fatbike in the winter either, when it's packed down, icy, etc. The thing is that we like riding these bikes because we can't always choose the conditions before hand, we just go ride, which is where the studded fat tires come into play.

    I wouldn't get them if the environment only sees occasional snow or it's so warm that it doesn't last very long. You need ice/slippery conditions to make them worth it.
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    Thank Jayem. That's a pretty convincing case to get them for my Montana climate. I have one other potential option if the Vee Snowshoe tires that will come with the bike are the kind that I can install studs in. I have a backup set of used Gazza Extremes that I might be able to remove the studs from and install in the Snowshoes. I've only lost a few, so I should have enough to fully populate the Snowshoes. I have the Nokian replacement stud tool, but only a couple spare new studs left. It seems laborious though, even if it may save a few hundred bucks if it works...

  32. #32
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    snowshoe xl

    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    Thank Jayem. That's a pretty convincing case to get them for my Montana climate. I have one other potential option if the Vee Snowshoe tires that will come with the bike are the kind that I can install studs in. I have a backup set of used Gazza Extremes that I might be able to remove the studs from and install in the Snowshoes. I've only lost a few, so I should have enough to fully populate the Snowshoes. I have the Nokian replacement stud tool, but only a couple spare new studs left. It seems laborious though, even if it may save a few hundred bucks if it works...
    I use snowshoe xl in the winter. I got 480 studs in rear tyre. And 380 studs in front. It's better than mtb with studs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone here use studded fat tires?-img_20150118_221610.jpg  


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    Good job! Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADKMTNBIKER View Post
    unless you using Kold Kutters.
    It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  34. #34
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    Lat winter, studs were a necessity.
    Freeze, thaw, freeze, rain, freeze...
    Couldn't break through the ice layer to get at the snow.
    Took some nasty spills before I coughed up the coin for the Dillinger 5's.
    I really like the concave design of the studs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone here use studded fat tires?-sam_1707.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by frl View Post
    I use snowshoe xl in the winter. I got 480 studs in rear tyre. And 380 studs in front. It's better than mtb with studs.
    I thought the website said the Snowshoe can accommodate 240 studs? Looks like you studded the outermost knobs as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    Thank Jayem. That's a pretty convincing case to get them for my Montana climate. I have one other potential option if the Vee Snowshoe tires that will come with the bike are the kind that I can install studs in. I have a backup set of used Gazza Extremes that I might be able to remove the studs from and install in the Snowshoes. I've only lost a few, so I should have enough to fully populate the Snowshoes. I have the Nokian replacement stud tool, but only a couple spare new studs left. It seems laborious though, even if it may save a few hundred bucks if it works...
    I'm in Missoula and we deal with glare ice on the trails from at least mid February until the middle of April. Studded Bud and Lou (grip studs), although expensive, are a game changer. Trails that I literally can't even walk on are now easily rideable. It is the difference between riding and not riding.

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    Thanks, I ordered 500# cold cutter 3/8" screws to install in my Floaters, total price less than $50 shipped!

    and yeah, they are burly and probably a little heavy, but I will gladly pay that price for increased confidence on slick surfaces AND for bombing downhills!!

    I have two sets of wheels (650b+ and 26 x 4), which makes it easier to have dedicated ice/snow tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyJo1 View Post

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    I thought the website said the Snowshoe can accommodate 240 studs? Looks like you studded the outermost knobs as well?
    Yes you can buy snowshoe with 240 studs, but they aren't with studs on the outermost knobs. I bought without studs. Used isp studs in the 240 holes and made holes to use more isp studs.

  39. #39
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    I put the Dllinger 5 and Studded Bud and Lou through the wringer and came out liking both for certain types of riding. Bud/Lou versus Dillinger 5

    I just picked up a set of Snowshoe XL's to test out this winter to see if it is a good all-rounder. I was able to score the studded snowshoes when they were on sale at AEBike for less than a non studded Lou so hopefully they are a nice budget option. Studded tires are definitely easier to find in the offseason, as once people try riding ice and fall down they are clearing out the stock on the shelves.

    If you live in a climate with a long winter and/or a fair amount of thaw/freeze, studded tires are definitely worth it IMHO. The give a huge confidence boost anytime the going gets slick and allows you to traverse places that you wouldn't want to walk on. As many have said before, studded tires may be expensive but they are still cheaper than medical bills following a crash on ice.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghood View Post
    I'm in Missoula and we deal with glare ice on the trails from at least mid February until the middle of April. Studded Bud and Lou (grip studs), although expensive, are a game changer. Trails that I literally can't even walk on are now easily rideable. It is the difference between riding and not riding.
    My experience with regular 29er studded tires has been the same, total game changer for winter riding and I also experienced many rides where it was much safer on the bike than trying to walk. Helena trails are the same, they get decent foot traffic all winter and once they are packed down they start to glaze up. Then get a thaw cycle in there and they turn into pure ice.

    I ordered a new set of studded Vee Snowshoes so I'll be ready when the ice forms.

  41. #41
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    Anyone know a place to get the concave studs cheap?
    Also what is the smallest Kold Kutter available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Anyone know a place to get the concave studs cheap?
    Also what is the smallest Kold Kutter available?
    Ebay, search alum bike stud.

    Looks like smallest kold kutter is 3/8"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Thanks, I ordered 500# cold cutter 3/8" screws to install in my Floaters, total price less than $50 shipped!

    and yeah, they are burly and probably a little heavy, but I will gladly pay that price for increased confidence on slick surfaces AND for bombing downhills!!

    I have two sets of wheels (650b+ and 26 x 4), which makes it easier to have dedicated ice/snow tires.
    Planning to order 500 Kold Kutters for my Floaters as well unless I find a good deal on studded Dillingers or Snowshoes. Interested to know how it turns out for you.
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  44. #44
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    Short vid from last winter.

    It doesn't matter what I ride as long as I ride it Rubber Side Down●~●.

  45. #45
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    No concave studs on Ebay. Also I notice Kold Kutters have a # besides the 3/8. Is that # the size of the head? Wondering what would be the smallest head size?

  46. #46
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    Does anyone know if there's a non-QBP 26x4" tire with stud pockets?

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    #4 x 1/4" screws

    i found #4 x 1/4" hex head sheet metal screws on amazon. they have a pretty low profile head so they can still be run on hard surfaces. they are also not long enough to pierce the casing so you don't have to worry about punctures or going tubeless.

    Anyone here use studded fat tires?-img_5395.jpg

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    i found #4 x 1/4" hex head sheet metal screws on amazon. they have a pretty low profile head so they can still be run on hard surfaces. they are also not long enough to pierce the casing so you don't have to worry about punctures or going tubeless.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    nice. got a link?

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    I found them on Amazon ruby they were $8 per 100. Go to tool barn. Wayyyy better deal

  51. #51
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    any rocks or pavement will quickly take the edge off of sheet metal screws,been there.

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  53. #53
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    I got my Vee Snowshoes with studs. Now all I need is a fat bike. Should be here by the end of the month.

  54. #54
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    [QUOTE=ewarnerusa;12180190]I got my Vee Snowshoes with studs. Now all I need is a fat bike. Should be here by the end of the month.QUOTE]
    awesome. i stared getting spare parts before I got a bike too.

  55. #55
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    Dirt bike and quad ice racers use screws in their tires and they work really well. But, they specialized their machines to run on ice only. Screws wouldn't be a great set up on dry pavement which most everyone will encounter if they ride their bike around town going to and from the trails or work.

    I've got a set of Nokian 296's that are a little over 2" wide and they are awesome on icy roads, sidewalks and hard, icy, set up trails. But they are absolutely worthless if you need floatation on a snow packed trail. I gave up winter biking for many years because the area I live in doesn't get enough traffic to pack down the trails. This February getting a Fatboy was mind blowing. I couldn't believe how capable the bike was with the fat tires. I only ran into about three instances when I wished for studs. The worst day was in March and everything was so hard and icy floatation was not an issue. Another time was on an icy road to and from the trails and the third was hitting an area of white colored ice on a snow covered river bed. I went down hard that time. But, I never needed them anywhere else. I liked just having normal tires like when riding from snow to the beach and going over rocks. Studs wouldn't have been too good for that. My spring time commute to work had a lot of pavement running between the trails so that would have been hard on the studs as well. I think a guy is better off with two bikes. One with skinny studded tires and the other their fatbike. Then you just ride what works best for the conditions. Until I read this thread I didn't consider that the greater floatation of the fat tires would cause the studs to have less grip but I can total see that. I almost lost the front end of my Fatboy in a gravel covered pavement corner when I took the turn at normal speed and the front end started washing out. You'd run into the same with with studs on ice. They just won't grip as well as a studded skinny tire.

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    In the winter i drive to the trail head and then ride from there. So the time on pavement with these is going to be extremely minimal. Has anyone had success in making their own pocket for the carbide tipped studs like those onthe D4 and snowshoe XL? i would much rather go that route but i have not heard anything about using those on regular tires and i have had success in the past with the sheet metal screws.

  57. #57
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    Well, I scored today. I knew I had some 3/8" pancake head #2 Phillips drive self drilling screws in my sweep up buckets from commercial building construction I've done. I found almost 700 of them. SCORE! I think I will try Lexal clear silicone sealant. Its Really great stuff. And maybe a patch of Gorilla tape over top of that. Will be riding on lots of snowmachine trails all winter. Which is 6-8 months long here. Some asphalt also and some ice, quite a bit of ice along side the road. And the occasional overflow from a crik.

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    I would not b surprised, and am planning on us having-40 by the first week of November.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    I got my Vee Snowshoes with studs. Now all I need is a fat bike. Should be here by the end of the month.
    I am about to buy a pair of these for the upcoming winter. I've been running the nates that came with my mukluk, but on the icy patches of trail or frozen ponds and lakes I'm playing russian roulette with my kneecaps. I will still run the nates for soft snow and spring mud, but the snowshoes will be the default choice for winter riding. The dillingers would have been my choice until these came out, but they are $$$.
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  60. #60
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    Hello,

    just got my first fat bike with Vee Snowshow XL tires. As some posters here have said, these tires have pockets already "built-in" to insert studs. I don't have the funds to fill all the pockets, so say if I bought 100 studs, how many should be installed on the front vs the rear tire? 60 front/40 rear? Is there a optimal pattern and placement?
    I'm thinking about getting these:
    50 Replacement studs with Tool | Schwalbe North America

    or these:
    250 Bicycle Tire Studs Aluminum Body Carbide TIP FOR Studdable Tires | eBay

    Anyone here use studded fat tires?-vee.jpg

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmonkey8 View Post
    Hello,

    just got my first fat bike with Vee Snowshow XL tires. As some posters here have said, these tires have pockets already "built-in" to insert studs. I don't have the funds to fill all the pockets, so say if I bought 100 studs, how many should be installed on the front vs the rear tire? 60 front/40 rear? Is there a optimal pattern and placement?
    I'm thinking about getting these:
    50 Replacement studs with Tool | Schwalbe North America

    or these:
    250 Bicycle Tire Studs Aluminum Body Carbide TIP FOR Studdable Tires | eBay

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't think 40, or even 50, will be enough. I run 80 front and rear in D4's and that gets me OK traction on glare ice. Not enough to rail corners but enough to stay upright on anything approaching level. I would try studding the center two rows on your tires as a start. If you buy the E Bay studs you'd have enough. On the down side they seem kind of rounded over. I don't think the ends need to be pointed but a square edge at least seems like it would bite into the ice better.
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  62. #62
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    I would definitely go with the 250 ct eBay pack and get the studing tool. Then if u find u want more bite you can add Grip Studs to the outer knobs as funds permit.
    These may not b the most aggressive studs out there. But they will definatly help. And won't make too much racket when.u ride asphalt.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyJo1 View Post
    Kold Kutters traction is unreal.
    Have u used the Kold Kutters on your fat bike tires? If so, which tire? 3/8" screw length seems quite long. But then I don't know how thick the casing is .

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    Thanks for the replies! Yes, I was leaning more towards the ebay one since it's more bang for the buck.
    Since my tires already have "pockets" for inserting studs, am I able to just insert them on the inflated tire? Or do I need to remove the tire from the wheel? Sorry, for the newbie question!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmonkey8 View Post
    Thanks for the replies! Yes, I was leaning more towards the ebay one since it's more bang for the buck.
    Since my tires already have "pockets" for inserting studs, am I able to just insert them on the inflated tire? Or do I need to remove the tire from the wheel? Sorry, for the newbie question!
    It is much easier to insert the studs into an inflated tire -- the higher the pressure, the better.
    --Peace

  66. #66
    frl
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    Koldkutters is unreal. Over 30% uphill. Very icy. Me and some friends. My friend ride with 240 koldkutters in front and rear tire.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLh_C...e_gdata_player

  67. #67
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    Thanks, all! I went with the eBay deal and a pack of those Schwalbe's.
    I can't wait to try out the traction come Winter.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    I got my Vee Snowshoes with studs. Now all I need is a fat bike. Should be here by the end of the month.
    My fat bike has arrived! I've decided to wait a few weeks until we have freezing weather before mounting up my studded Snowshoe XL. The bike came with nonstudded Snowshoes and it is surprising how different the tread patterns are. Clearly not the exact same mold for the two versions. I read an online review complaining about how the Snowshoe nonstudded is awful in snow with no side to side traction to prevent washing out sideways. I can see from the looks of the tread that it may indeed be weak in that regard. I'm looking forward to mounting up the studded version!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmonkey8 View Post
    Thanks for the replies! Yes, I was leaning more towards the ebay one since it's more bang for the buck.
    Since my tires already have "pockets" for inserting studs, am I able to just insert them on the inflated tire? Or do I need to remove the tire from the wheel? Sorry, for the newbie question!
    A dab of tire cement in the pockets makes the studs slide in much easier, it acts as a lube initially then sets up for better stud retention. Some LBS's will preorder D4's/5's for you; that's the route I took, paying $175 each for my D4's with 240 studs each from the factory. Grip studs are a buck each, some of the special order chinese studs can be down in the quarter each range on occasion. If you can score a cheap set of Nates they can be Grip studded and are roughly equal to a set of D4's. That's the route my brother took, the cost was a bit more and roughly equal in performance on wet ice to my D4's FWIW...

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by frl View Post
    Koldkutters is unreal. Over 30% uphill. Very icy. Me and some friends. My friend ride with 240 koldkutters in front and rear tire.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLh_C...e_gdata_player
    Love this video. if this isn't an ad for kold kutters than it should be.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post
    Have u used the Kold Kutters on your fat bike tires? If so, which tire? 3/8" screw length seems quite long. But then I don't know how thick the casing is .
    Sorry just saw this. Yes Bulldozers. Grind them flat to the back of the tire after the install.
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  72. #72
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    Just got back from.town . The XL Snowshoe did not fit in the rear of the Boris X5 . The lbs traded me a Dillinger 4 and a 100 count pkg of Grip Studs straight across . He mounted a D 5 on the rear and I am gonna mount one of the studded XL Snowshoes on the front. So she will have some steel on the ground. I will stud the D4 and mount it on the rear of the Boris and mount the D5 on the rear of my Cogburn. And I will put the other XL Snowshoe on my bike on the front. Then we will both be studded front and rear..

    A couple hours later.:::::
    I mounted an XL Snowshoe on the front of the Boris. I was concerned it would be a challenge getting the bead to seat right but it was easy pie. There is a little wobble in the casing but nothing bad. So with the XL SS in the front and the Dillinger 5 in the rear her bike looks big and cool. . There is some tire rub on the small front chain ring but none on the large front ring. So when it's time I will convert it to 1 by up front. But as soon as I get the D4 studded I will put it on . So she will be good all winter.
    Last edited by Cold Trigger Finger; 10-06-2015 at 08:35 PM.

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    Just studded my tires on my Vee Snowshoe XL. I just studded the outer edges. Does anyone think I should stud the center row as well? Or is that overkill? I've read that putting studs in the center row would add more rolling resistance as well as wear the studs down faster.

  74. #74
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    I wouldn't stud the center row. But I would the next 2 rows of knobs out fromthe center staggerd rows of knobs.

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    The Kold Kutters are fascinating, but the idea of screwing them through the tire carcass is a bit scary. Any idea if they could be cut down to length with side cutters and still bite in to the tire and hold up?

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    I forgot to attach a pic of my studded tire. Here it is:

    Anyone here use studded fat tires?-studded.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by webmonkey8 View Post
    Just studded my tires on my Vee Snowshoe XL. I just studded the outer edges. Does anyone think I should stud the center row as well? Or is that overkill? I've read that putting studs in the center row would add more rolling resistance as well as wear the studs down faster.

  77. #77
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    I think you should stud the center row as well. My opinion is that studded bike tires are a special purpose tool, so optimize it for its intended purpose. This will be my first winter on a fatbike; my studded bike tire experience comes from several years of commuting on my CX bike with studded tires and riding trails on my 29er with studded tires. You don't notice studs or their rolling resistance one bit when you are riding through snow. You most definitely notice their benefit when you are on ice. If you are going to be riding a lot of pavement, then you might be concerned with wearing them down and/or increased rolling resistance. But is your intended fatbike use to slay the pavement all winter? I wouldn't winter commute on my CX bike without the studded tires and those tires are going on 5 seasons I think. Nokian Hakkepeliitta 240, lots of studs including along the center. The studs are wearing down along with the treads and there is no decrease in performance. Nearly 100% pavement use with those tires.

  78. #78
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    ewarnerusa - good advice. Better be safe than sorry, I suppose! I will stud the whole tire, at least the front one. Thanks! Come to think of it, I'll just stud both.

  79. #79
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    96 Koldkutters on the front Flowbeist, 170 studs on the rear Van Helga.




  80. #80
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    Anyone here use studded fat tires?

    Here is the 6 with a 2xl studded on the front. Amazing how supple it is over the hodag. Some studs were inserted terribly and i pushed them in better, almost have to remove them and re install. Road it 24 of the 40 km on pave to seat them like schwalbe suggests with their studded tires.......

    seeing if i need a rear and will get a D4 or the new gnarwhal.

    for sure a cyclocross with studs will be far better on ice but a large part of my commute is actually single track that fatbikers use so ill just be daily grooming it i suppose.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone here use studded fat tires?-12039348_10153619464843948_2236391184160021545_n.jpg  

    Fatbike, XC bike, Gravel Bike....

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmonkey8 View Post
    I forgot to attach a pic of my studded tire. Here it is:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This will give you awesome grip. Better than mtb with schwalbe icespiker pro
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone here use studded fat tires?-img_20150118_221610.jpg  


  82. #82
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    frl ; that is a truly impressive studing job. ! Wow!

    I agree that all the holes should b filled. Atp I am not planning on studding the very center row of knobs on our tires, however, if i think I need more traction I will add more. .
    Good to know that the studs last for a good long time. . My wife gave her's their maiden voyage this morning. She said they act fine but are noisey on the bare pavement. But she prefers the studs over the possibility of crashing as it is freezing every night now.

  83. #83
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    Be careful if you completely stud your knobs when you ride on pavement, metal doesn't grip asphalt and concrete as well as rubber and can slide out without warning. This lack of grip is more pounced with taller studs like the Koldkutters as they keep the rubber from touching the ground.
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  84. #84
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    I mounted the other XL Snowshoe I got in town. On the front of my Cogburn today and took it for a ride. I like it. Wish one would fit the rear of the bike.

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    Wow. Great Pics. I have VH's and Ground Controls. I wanted to stud one set for winter. Do you have pics of the inside of the VH? Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by jkirkpatri View Post
    96 Koldkutters on the front Flowbeist, 170 studs on the rear Van Helga.




  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenaciousd View Post
    Wow. Great Pics. I have VH's and Ground Controls. I wanted to stud one set for winter. Do you have pics of the inside of the VH? Thanks
    Are you going tubeless or with silicone inside the tire?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by webmonkey8 View Post
    I forgot to attach a pic of my studded tire. Here it is:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I agree with ewarnerusa. Stud it all and you won't be sorry at any time. Sure you might be a little slower on the pavement. So what. You won't fall on the ice.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenaciousd View Post
    Wow. Great Pics. I have VH's and Ground Controls. I wanted to stud one set for winter. Do you have pics of the inside of the VH? Thanks
    I'll get a pic posted up tonight for you.

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    I decided I wanted to keep the Dillinger 4 in its package to use on long trips as a spare. So I used 3/8" long pancake head steel framing screws to stud one of my wire bead Nates for a rear tire on my wife's Boris. I think I put 250 of them in using the awl/ screw gun method. I took my time to do as good a job as I could and it took me over 3 hours including the silicon caulk on the heads. I didn't put any in the center treads or the first row of knobs on each side of center. I'm an old guy, but I have to say. That tire looks gnarly with all that steel sticking out of it. Our temps have been higher than they were for the previous week. But winter is still on its way. I have about 8 psi in that tire atm. Will see how it acts tomorrow.
    I put the studded Dillinger 5 on the front of the Boris and put the XL Snowshoes on front and rear of my bike.

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    I got my Snowshoe XL studded tires mounted up. I don't know how I missed that they are a 4.8" width. They are noticeably wider than the 4.5" nonstudded Snowshoes I took off. I'll set them up tubeless on the Mulefut rims once I get some wide Gorilla tape.


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    I've got both the XL Snowshoes mounted on 82 mm Rollin Daryl rims and they mic out at 4.4-4.5" . Maybe its because I don't have 20 psi in them or because they are new and haven't stretched out yet. We haven't had snow yet down at this lat and elevation. But we will so all the studded tires will get a good workout.

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    Inside of van helga. Still need to grind screw tips.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jkirkpatri View Post
    Inside of van helga. Still need to grind screw tips.

    I take it you aren't running tubeless anymore?
    '17 Cutthroat
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon
    '15 Fatboy Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post
    I've got both the XL Snowshoes mounted on 82 mm Rollin Daryl rims and they mic out at 4.4-4.5" . Maybe its because I don't have 20 psi in them or because they are new and haven't stretched out yet. We haven't had snow yet down at this lat and elevation. But we will so all the studded tires will get a good workout.
    . 4.5" is about the norm for most of the "4.8" tires. They will stretch a little, but I haven't quite figured out the mythical ruler that the OEM's use to measure.
    '17 Cutthroat
    '16 Bucksaw Carbon
    '15 Fatboy Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    I take it you aren't running tubeless anymore?
    Never was in first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    i found #4 x 1/4" hex head sheet metal screws on amazon. they have a pretty low profile head so they can still be run on hard surfaces. they are also not long enough to pierce the casing so you don't have to worry about punctures or going tubeless.

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    Are these the same one you used?

    MALCO Hex Washer Head Zip in Screws Qty 1 000 HW6X3 8ZT | eBay

    Seems like same 3/8" length as Kold Kutters and other available moto ice screws. Surprised they did not go through the tire as Kold Kutters definitely do go through pretty much any fatbike tire according to numerous post on these forums and require a tubeless setup. Just want to make sure. What tires are they on?

    How about these? Probably still too long to be used with tubes?

    100pcs 12mm Screw IN Tire Stud FOR CAR Truck ATV Carbide Tips With Steel Body | eBay


    Trying to find something reasonably priced to stud a pair of somewhat worn Floaters and a pair of new ChaoYang 26x4.0" tires (Same thread as Fat B Nimble) Both are used with tubes.

    Here are all the options I gathered so far and none work for me:

    1) Kold Kutters and similar ice screws are are all 3/8" which is too long and they require tubeless setup
    2) 45Nrth or ebay carbide studs require tires with stud pockets
    3) Grip studs are only DIY option that would work but out of my budget
    4) Factory studded Dillinger or Snowshoe tires are also out of my budget.
    2014 Giant Trance 27.5 3
    2016 Norco Sasquatch 6.1

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    common sheet metal screws are not the same as cold cutters.Sheet metal screws have maybe 3/16 protrusion above tire,ice screws have about twice that made just for that purpose.

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    the kold kutters probably have better traction but for me they stick so far up off the tire that you have to basically run on all screw because there is no rubber touching anymore. also they go so far into the tire that you either have to go tubeless with lots of goo or use silicone on each screw or find someway to protect the tube. but to each there own. i am just sharing my thought process on this. there are lots of options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    I am curious if you were able to easily screw these in by hand? battery powered screwdriver, etc. I have an old set of surly nates 27tpi that may have enough knob height, not sure. Most of the time we do not need more float as opposed to more traction; especially if we have frequent freeze/thaw cycles.
    Look forward to hearing what tires you put these on!

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