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  1. #1
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    Any Origin-8 Crawler Updates?

    Now, that Crawlers have arrived in LBS's . . . anybody got one, and want to post a review? Everything else is dated reports about pre-production models.

    Thanx, Dave.

  2. #2
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    Any Origin-8 Crawler Updates?-p1060217.jpgAny Origin-8 Crawler Updates?-p1060221.jpgAny Origin-8 Crawler Updates?-p1060220.jpgWe got one in at the shop where I work. It is a 20" because all other sizes were not available. My understanding is that later in the summer the smaller sizes will hit the warehouses. Build went fine. It is heavy, but I expected that with the Nuvinci hub, undrilled rims, and Devastater tires on it. Somebody could save a significant amount of weight with a swap of tires and if you wanted- a new wheel build.

    Things I noted: It comes with a derailleur hangar drop out. The frame is very slightly offset to the drive side. Looks like it has a good amount of tire clearance. BFL's on 80's should fit okay.

    We had to swap out the chain after a test rider snapped the stock one. So, that maybe an issue to look out for.
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  3. #3
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    The sales rep dropped a 17" Crawler at the LBS a few weeks ago. I am 6' so the bike is small for me but that has not prevented several off road adventures. Here are my observations...

    Hits - The Alu frame and steel fork handle the rough stuff well and are easy to steer especially when going downhill.Single walled, 80 rims offer plenty of float and could be modified for weight savings. Avid brakes come with bigger discs and work very well. Tires are heavy but did well during a long ride along the flood plain with plentiful rock gardens. Maybe a function of a small frame but the frame and fork handled well and my buddy managed to get air borne several times.

    Misses - The gearing could be much lower and the grip shifter takes alot of twist to go through the full range. VT is all hills and I found myself wishing for a few more gears as my buddy went up the trail on his Shimano 8. The frame and fork do have slight offset but I wonder if it is more quality control than design as the seat stay bridge was not level. The front hub is a modified front hub and I would replace it for a stronger rear hub setup.

    Interesting - I have ridden other Origin 8 frames and they are good everyday riders for those who do not want to spend alot of money. The Crawler would be a great tinker project as it comes with a rear der hanger. The matching 135 spaces meet my requirement for long adventures and ability to swap wheels. There are plenty of $1,500 starter snow bikes but if Origin 8 was to offer the frame and fork, I think many more folks would join the fat tire experience.

  4. #4
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    Any Origin-8 Crawler Updates?

    Love the color. I would hope that the offset isn't a quality control issue. It's a sharp looking bike, for sure.

  5. #5
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    LBS from whom I purchased my Salsa Mukluk II+ custom build has an Origin 8. I rode it very briefly 'round the parking lot. By comparison, the Origin felt tank-like and I quickly lost interest in it.

    From my brief Fat Bike ownership experience, I surmise it might be best to forgo this genre till funds allow purchase of something at least equal to the Mukluk.

    Only one person's opinion. As usual, YMMV. I suppose, the more casual is one's Fat Bike use, the less one could spend on their bike.
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  6. #6
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    250 lb. weight limit, on a 42 lb. bike?

    I thought weight limits were for fragile 20 lb. bikes.

    If you're too fat for a 42 lb. fat bike, what do you ride?

  7. #7
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    Origin specifies 250# maximum rider weight? I agree, that seems low for this type of bike.
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  8. #8
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    Is that a 250# limit, just on the seat post?

    I'm 225# before I get dressed to go outside to ride in the snow. So, I'll be pushing the limit, with a daypack on my back.

    But, if I put racks on the front and rear of a Crawler, will that spread out the load enough, that I can exceed the 250# limit?

    Thanx, Dave.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    If you're too fat for a 42 lb. fat bike, what do you ride?
    A rascal scooter.

  10. #10
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    Or is the 250# weight limit a function of being overly judicious in protecting the rims?

  11. #11
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    I recently went to my LBS to purchase a Surly Moonlander and when I arrived the sales person showed me the Origin 8 Crawler, which I compared to the Surly with some test rides. The Surly was very nice but I ended up buying the Crawler because of the feel and ride quality of the bike. What also sold me was the aluminum frame and Nuvinci hub because it was a blast to ride around on different types of terrain with an infinite number of gearing ratios to choose from. There is also a derailleur hanger if I choose to replace the Nuvinci with a cassette but I doubt that will happen unless I have some mechanical problems (none so far, though). Yes, the Nuvinci hub adds some weight and Surlys are great bikes but the Crawler felt quicker and was so much fun to ride.

  12. #12
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    I just took a test ride on the crawler they have at Oak Cliff bikes with the NuVinci planetary hub.
    Very cool drivetrain. Seamless. Good range but could be a bit wider.
    I could see putting a smaller chainring upfront.
    I noticed the rear frame stays looked slightly biased to the drive side by about 5-10mm max.
    Very stiff frame, too stiff I think.
    Not too heavy, 37# for a fatty with quasi-IGH ?
    Crappy brakes.
    Cheap looking dropouts.
    Super cheap looking 80mm rims that had a hugely noticable seam...
    OK tires.

    Best part of the whole bike was the rear hub, for sure.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxo56 View Post
    I just took a test ride on the crawler they have at Oak Cliff bikes with the NuVinci planetary hub.
    Very cool drivetrain. Seamless. Good range but could be a bit wider.
    I could see putting a smaller chainring upfront.
    I noticed the rear frame stays looked slightly biased to the drive side by about 5-10mm max.
    Very stiff frame, too stiff I think.
    Not too heavy, 37# for a fatty with quasi-IGH ?
    Crappy brakes.
    Cheap looking dropouts.
    Super cheap looking 80mm rims that had a hugely noticable seam...
    OK tires.

    Best part of the whole bike was the rear hub, for sure.

    I agree with everything you said. I just want to point out though about the brakes. Avid BB7's are equiped on a lot of other fat bikes as well. They get the job done for me and I have taken it down some very steep, root covered, single track; to 34 mph downhill paved road, braking hard to turn onto another road. Hydraulic brakes are still on my want list though.

    The rims, yup I noticed the very noticable seem you mentioned. They seem to hold up pretty good though. As I mentioned above, I been on single track covered in tree roots, with some high speed impacts, rocks included, they are holding up just fine.

    The Nuvinci, as you said, could use a wider range. I'm still very satisfied with it though. I just can't go as fast on pavement, and I might have to walk it up a few more hills on the trail than others. A fairly simple fix, changing the ring gear to the riders needs. Overall I'm pretty happy with it.

    So, for me the price $1500, offers a lot for the money. Which to me offers more than the more expensive bikes (my wants and needs are different than others). It was the cheapest fat bike on the market until Bikes Direct showed their offerings.

  14. #14
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    Love my Crawler. Picked it up on a great deal too, $900, I think most are $1500?

    As far as changing gearing on it, would it be better/more practical to change the front cog or the rear? And in terms of gearing does it make a difference on way or the other in the gear ratio is the same number? I get for lower gearing its either smaller front or larger rear but does it matter which I change if either way gets me to my wanted gear ratio?

  15. #15
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    Any new crawlers out there?

  16. #16
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    I commuted to work today and let one of my co-workers (who also commutes by bike) ride the Crawler. He is into it. Loves everything about it, including the Nuvinci hub. :-D

  17. #17
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    J&B dropped off a demo at the shop I work at & I'm riding it wor the week while I'm waiting for my 9:Zero:7 frame to arrive. my initial thoughts are mostly positive; in many ways, it seems like a better equipped bike than my late Pugsley. I'll post a review after I've had a chance to ride it off road. So far, I've only ridden it home 4 miles from the Philly Bike expo, and another 5 mile road ride into work.
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  18. #18
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    Has anyone replaced the devist8er tires on their crawler yet? I'm just wondering if the switch to lighter tires would be a significant difference or if these tires are about the standard weight for fat tires

  19. #19
    rda
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    anymore new updates on these? i am wanting to get a fatbike and still trying to decide which one. friend of mine is a jb dealer and can get me one of these for $900. Would it even be worth it though?

    i live in IN so not that many big hills where i ride. i run a 1x10 with 32 front and 11-34 in back on my superfly and don't have any issues.

    just concerned about weight and the igh not having enough low gear based on reviews i've found. $900 would still be a lot of money if i end up hating the bike.

  20. #20
    MaverickMotoMedia.com
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    Here's my initial impressions on the Crawler: First Impressions: Origin-8 Crawler Fatbike | Maverick Moto Media
    I should have my full review done this week. I'd say that based on how your bike is currently set up and where you live, you'd be a perfect fit for the Crawler. I'd estimate that the range is similar to a 34f and 11-34 rear. With a 30t chain ring and a 21 freewheel cog, it would be even lower; the Crawler would also be an excellent candidate for a single speed conversion, if you were so inclined. While the Crawler in stock form, wasn't quite up to the climbing on the trails I ride, (my favorite loop is 18 miles and 3500 feet of climbing) I really did like the Nuvinci and i'd buy one if I lived in the midwest. The smoothness of the nuvinci cannot be understated- I missed it when I switched back to my 9:Zero:7 with an XT 2x10 system. Shifting is utterly seamless and it seems indestructible. I think you'll like it.
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  21. #21
    rda
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Here's my initial impressions on the Crawler: First Impressions: Origin-8 Crawler Fatbike | Maverick Moto Media
    I should have my full review done this week. I'd say that based on how your bike is currently set up and where you live, you'd be a perfect fit for the Crawler. I'd estimate that the range is similar to a 34f and 11-34 rear. With a 30t chain ring and a 21 freewheel cog, it would be even lower; the Crawler would also be an excellent candidate for a single speed conversion, if you were so inclined. While the Crawler in stock form, wasn't quite up to the climbing on the trails I ride, (my favorite loop is 18 miles and 3500 feet of climbing) I really did like the Nuvinci and i'd buy one if I lived in the midwest. The smoothness of the nuvinci cannot be understated- I missed it when I switched back to my 9:Zero:7 with an XT 2x10 system. Shifting is utterly seamless and it seems indestructible. I think you'll like it.
    thanks for the reply. how tall are you and what size did you get? They only have large size available and i'm 6'4" i have had 2 large size bikes in the past and not had any issues though. the dealer i got them from did say i was on the tall side. I wanted large since i ride a lot of tight tech stuff and figured it would be more manuverable.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    thanks for the reply. how tall are you and what size did you get? They only have large size available and i'm 6'4" i have had 2 large size bikes in the past and not had any issues though. the dealer i got them from did say i was on the tall side. I wanted large since i ride a lot of tight tech stuff and figured it would be more manuverable.
    I'm 6'8" and j&b and my local bike shop gave me a 17" medium frame to test, because it's what they happened to have on hand. Surprisingly, it was quite roomy, excepting that the seat was at least 2 inches too short. I'd say that a large might fit you well. The have a long effective top tube, which makes them rin a bit big. If you have enough seat post, a large will fit. They're an incredible deal at $900, much more so than the other bikes at that range.
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  23. #23
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    We the people ...

    Hi all. Others have mentioned the gearing isn't low enough on the Crawler. I have one in the Rockies, and unless something is wrong with my Nuvinci, it's great for the flatland, but no hills.

    Two questions about this:
    1. The Crawler has a spec of 32T chainring (104bcd), and the Nuvinci n360 comes w/an 18T cog. Nuvinci's manual itself does not "approve" of this gearing (see top of page 4 of manual on Fallbrook/Nuvinci's website)
    http://www.fallbrooktech.com/sites/d...360_RMF_EN.pdf
    Name:  nuvinci.GIF
Views: 2308
Size:  38.7 KB

    Am I reading this correctly that Origin-8 spec'd a bike that voids the Nuvinci n360 warranty right out of the box?

    2. There was some talk in this thread about going down to 30T ring (the smallest that would fit on the 104bcd spider) or larger cog. According to the chart I linked to, this would take it even further out of Nuvinci's "approved" gear ratio, thus putting more stress on the hub and help it to fail sooner, no?

    What have others done to lower the gear ratio on the Crawler? Unless there's something "wrong" with my Nuvinci, it's pretty much un-rideable anywhere with anything more than a little hill. Thank you.

  24. #24
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    Since I started this thread, I thought that I might as well resurrect it.

    I bought a Crawler and have been riding it off & on for about a year. I had to take a long break after a skiing injury, but, now I'm back riding. Overall, I like my Crawler, especially the NuVinci hub, but, there are some things that I'd like to upgrade.

    First, the tires/wheels. Mine are out of round. Not sure if it's the rims, or the rubber, or both, and it doesn't matter much on bumpy trails. But, on smooth paths, at anything over 20mph, the bike really wobbles vertically. I can even see the wheels/tires wobble while standing still, if I raise them off the ground and give them a hand spin. Is this something that can be "trued-out" or do I need to just replace them? I've thought about "learning" how to drill holes in these cheap lop-sided rims, to shave some weight. But, don't want to waste my free time either, if they're hopelessly un-round?

    Next, I'd like to get wider, but lighter tires, than the factory 4.0 Devistators. Would Vee 4.7 Snowshoes on 80mm rims fit on my Crawler? Or are all Vee Rubber products as likely to be as lop-sided as these Devistators? How about 4.8 Knards? Would they fit? Others?

    Lastly, like many others have observed, I'd like to lower the gearing. The range of the NuVinci is enough for me, but, I'd like it to be lower. I rarely pedal at the highest setting, but, sometimes have to get off and push at the lowest setting. Should I make the front sproket smaller, or the rear sproket larger?

    Thanx, Dave.

  25. #25
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    I had the same issues on my Crawler with the out of roundness. Its probably not the wheels. I had a bear of a time getting the devist8ers bead to seat evenly on the rim, and lightweight 2.7 Q-tubes that don't inflate uniformly in a 4" tire only exacerbated the problem. Normal tubes (which are god awful heavy) or ghetto tubeless along with some soapy water on the tire bead will help with getting the tire seated evenly. I ran into the exact same problem with Qtubes and Snowshoes on the drilled version of the crawler's rims (weinman HL-80's). I drilled out the crawler rims, and went with a lighter rim strip and lighter tubes and it made a huge difference - it's worth doing if you're committed to keeping the Crawler. Never cared for the Devist8er tire though.

    Gearing - mine was geared down, putting it well outside of specs for gear ratios as stipulated by NuVinci. Still didn't get as low as I wanted. Do a search on the inter geared hub page and you'll find some more detailed info on NuVinci gearing.

  26. #26
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    My Crawler has been my only bike since I've owned it, just over a year ago. I've made a lot of changes since then.

    47mm Neon Rims for 3 season use, stock 80's for winter use.

    WTB Pure V Team (Ti rails). This seat is INIFINITELY better than stock. I chose the titanium rails cause the steel rails on the stock seat were starting to rust. I rode my longest ride ever last weekend, 81 miles. I couldn't have done it without this seat (and 36T chainring).

    VP All Purpose DH/FR/ BMX Pedals. These suckers grab your feet and don't let go! I'm looking forward to this winter to see how well they work compared to what I was using.

    Rear rack is a Blackburn EX1 Disc. I've used it on every outing for almost a year., it's held up just fine.

    I swapped the stock 32T chainring for a 36T for a little more speed, I kept the 18T cog on the back. There's enough chain length for the swap, but just enough. The difference in range is slightly more high range and a little less low range. For long distance riding I like the more relaxed cadence at the same speeds. I don't miss the low range unless I'm in the hills a lot and even still, I keep climbing.

    For trail riding I swap rear cogs, while using the stock 32T chainring. I have the stock 18T and I have a 21T. Huge difference in low range on the 21T, top speed (high range) on the 21T is equivalent to the low range while using the 18T cog. So if you need more low range, I recommend just swapping to larger cogs, you should have enough chain length to swap a 19T or 20T cog while using the stock 32T chainring (21T fits!).

    To gain a little more chain to tire clearance, move the spacer thats next to the rear cog; to between the hub and the cog, rather than between the cog and snap ring/gear shift cables.

    About your question of what larger tires fit. I have no idea. I'm still trying to wear out the original devist8er's! What you run on the rear, looks limited though based on space available. You might want to try the trick I mentioned above for a little more clearance (not much).

    I think my future with this bike is it will become a 29er touring bike for 3 seasons then a winter bike. With full suspension fat bikes incoming, I see me owning one of them for trail duties and rough gravel roads/trails.

    Thats my Crawler update!

  27. #27
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    So Watermonkey, Snowshoes fit on your Crawler using 80mm rims?

    Did you have to move the spacer around like Trailcrawler suggested?

    I've been reading that the Snowshoes run a bit smaller than the 4.7" when first advertized, and I just noticed on the Vee Tire website, that they now call them 4.5", with a newer XL version called 4.8".

    I'm looking for the widest tire that will fit my crawler, and shed some serious weight from the 1850g Devistators, which are about the heaviest fat-tires out there regardless of width!

    Thanx, Dave.

  28. #28
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    Dave,
    all I ran were the stock devist8er's, so I can't help with other tires sizes on the Crawler. However, the the rims on my Lurch are the same as the Crawler, just factory drilled holes. I can tell you that the Snowshoe 4.5's/72 tpi folding measure out at exactly 4" on this setup, and the tires weighed in around 1300g. From other posts I've seen, the Snowshoe XL's are significantly wider - definitely a different casing than the 4.5''s, and close to Bud and Lou widths. I really like the snowshoes - don't really know what else I'd like them to do, they grip in everything, roll fast, are great at really low psi's, and have nominal self steer issues. That being said, it sounds like the OnOne floaters run 4" on 80mm rims and people love them, and they're much cheaper than snowshoes. I bought my crawler from a demo fleet, and the guy I bought it from geared it down for me before I purchased it, so I don't have feedback on the spacer use or not.

  29. #29
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    Anyone know the weight of the AT-PRO80 "solid" rims that came stock on my Crawler?

    Origin8 only lists the AT-PRO80-UL "holed" rim on their website now, and it's 1017g.

    Thanx, Dave.

  30. #30
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    In case anyone was interested in knowing how big of a tire you can put on the Crawler...

    I got a pair of Surly Lou's on front and back of mine. Front clearance is no issue. 3/8" clearance at the tightest spot at the top of the fork, looks good to me! Clearance out back is TIGHT.

    Chainring/cog setup 32t OE chainring up front, 21t Surly cog on the back. This combo is what you need without shortening the chain. It puts the rear wheel in the perfect spot in the stays.

    Stock Crawlers have a spacer between the snap ring and the rear cog. Move the spacer between the rear cog and the hub. It pushes the rear cog further away from the hub, giving more chain clearance. Surly cogs (what I'm using) don't need the spacer, just flip the cog so the teeth are farthest from the hub.

    The clearance for the chain and the Lou is still way to close to consider riding. The chain is still positioned inside the chainstays. Earlier this winter I tried placing the chainring (flipped backwards, so the inside of the chainring is showing on the outside of the bike) in place of the bashplate (remove bashplate completly) and it moved the chain to outside the stays. Down side is the chain sounds like it's binding when under heavy load in low range. I have no idea how bad this is for the chainring (being run backwards), I'm not a bike mechanic/expert. I'm guessing this isn't good for the chain. I did two rides (about 25 miles) on it with this chainring/cog config and swapped the chainring back to stock config (This is before I put Lou's on and had no need for the extra clearance).

    The pictures shows chain clearance with the stock chainring config, but with my swapped spacer on the rear cog. Before re-installing the rear wheel, get one side of the tire setup (beads inside the rim). Install the rear wheel, THEN seat the other bead and inflate. If you do this before re-installing the rear wheel on the bike, you won't make it past the stays and the brake caliper.

    With all that is said above, clearance is still TIGHT, probably not rideable. In the picture of the rear tire and chain; The rear tire is not centered perfectly, we're only talking 1/8th of an inch of additional chainstay clearance if it were centered perfectly.

    I only did this because I had the tires available from my other bike and just swapped them out of curiosity. I have not ridden the Crawler with this setup, just wanted to see if they cleared. I would imagine they would rub when actually ridden. The rear tire has 11PSI in it.

    After swapping tires I'm kinda motivated to get the Crawler ridable again just to see how it goes! I have to work on the grip shift, long story... the story/rant of it is here: Upgraded from a Origin8 Crawler to a Salsa Blackborow 1

    So, while Lou's most likely wont work despite BARELY clearing the stays. I'm thinking anything between 4.0" - 4.8" should fit on 80mm rims if you're interested in trying.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Any Origin-8 Crawler Updates?-img_20150124_142509.jpg  

    Any Origin-8 Crawler Updates?-img_20150124_142524.jpg  

    Any Origin-8 Crawler Updates?-img_20150124_142554.jpg  


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    Two things to update about my Crawler.

    1) So, a few days after my last post here, I fixed the gripshift, took it on it's maiden voyage with the Lou's installed. 4 inches of unpacked powder and a soft base. This tire and rim combo is rideable, but the rear wheel must be perfectly aligned to get the most tire/chain clearance. Since powder doesn't really stick to the frame, the bike rolled along just fine. No worries about snow build up stopping the rear tire from rotating in those type of conditions.

    2) Half way through the ride the cranks just started spinning freely. No dropped chain, took it to the bike shop. Just got it back today. I chipped the pawls in the freehub. They told me that Nuvinci replaced the freehub with hardened steel pawls, "better than what I had" so I'm told. No cost to me, covered under warranty.

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