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Thread: 9:zero:7 tusken

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    9:zero:7 tusken


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    They need to update the picture - but it sounds pretty slick. I'd like to see an actual build.

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    Velonews did a feature on it during interbike. <br><br>

    <br><br>
    Here is the story
    <br>
    Cheers,
    Steven


    Quote Originally Posted by evilcat View Post
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

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    I thought it was interesting that they are retailing them now.

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    There are a few pictures of the rear drive train on their facebook page. Seems to me they will be delivered with a 42 sprocket up front, and a 24 cog rear. Thats not so far from 32.18 on a single speed 29er I reckon?

    Anyone know what kind of gearing range this will give for this Nuvinci hub? F.ex compared to a 1x10 setup with a 11-36 cassette?

    Bjørn
    Last edited by BjornS; 11-06-2012 at 08:40 AM.

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    I believe it will compare more to a 2x10 setup gear range wise

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    The NuVinci is going to have a range of about 26 - 93 gear inches. A 29er with a 32 - 11/36 will be around 26 - 84 gear inches.

    Steven

    Quote Originally Posted by BjornS View Post
    There are a few pictures of the rear drive train on their facebook page. Seems to me they will be delivered with a 42 sprocket up front, and a 24 cog rear. Thats not so far from 32.18 on a single speed 29er I reckon?

    Anyone know what kind of gearing range this will give for this Nuvinci hub? F.ex compared to a 1x10 setup with a 11-36 cassette?

    Bjørn
    Lucky neighbor of Maryland's Patapsco Valley State Park, 39.23,-76.76 Flickr

  8. #8
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    Looks sick! So many cool fat frames these days!

  9. #9
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    Tusken, huh.

    I hope a clique of dorky riders buy a bunch of these, and then ride single file to hide their numbers.
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    The Origin 8 fat bike was set up with a Nuvinci drive train at the Outdoor Demo at Interbike last year and this. I have ridden it both years. I didn't think the range was very impressive. My impressions were that you could probably get your low end at the sacrifice of much high end with judicious cog selection. As set up there both years the gearing wasn't low enough, and the high end was already lacking somewhat. I am pretty sure it wouldn't work well for my needs, but it might be the bees knees for some of you guys.
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  11. #11
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    Boy those look like the same dropouts that are on my old Redline Monocog Flight commuter.

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    I don't know, I'm build my bike kind of like the $3999 Nome (except is mostly XTR) and I end up at the money ball park even if I was using some used parts (From myself, trade, purchase) still more fun to build them part by part your self, but many other people have different taste.

    Ps: except for the frame most of the new parts where purchase wholesale when ever possible..

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    I will generally concede that Guitar Ted has a point - the low range of an N360, like an Alfine, is a problem. It works here as I'm a flat lander, but even I wish for a lower gear at times.

    Tough call though - it's a damn fun hub to ride with.
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    Chainline? The Gates Centertrack has (according to Gates tech pages) a 43.65 mm spacing from frame center to sprocket/cog center. This is for the Shimano Alfine 8 and 11. However, the Nuvinci IGH has a 45,53mm spacing. This is two mm more "outboard" compared to the Alfine.

    Does this imply that the chainline for these IGH is "good ****" with respect to wide tires like BFL and maybe Bud/Lou?

    I'm aware of that the 135mm frame itself may as well be the limitation, but just curious while waiting for my new bike build.

    Bj

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    Sounds like an interesting option. Does anyone know the weight difference between a [Nuvinci hub + Gates belt drivetrain] vs. [conventional hub + cassette + chain + front and rear derailleur + front shifters/cable/housing]?

    Also, any thoughts on how the belt drive would hold up in ice/snow and cold temperatures?
    Thanks.

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    i've got one on order for my wife - but have been waiting and now have been told that there was a problem with the parts compatibility - to quote " I wanted to give you an update on your order. We have experienced an issue with the chain stay length. In essence, the belt drive specifications did not fit the frame. There will be a slight modification to the size of the rear sprocket. We are working diligently with Gates and Nuvinci to ensure the best possible product is sent out to you ASAP. The novelty of this project is creating a few hick ups, but please be assured that we will get a great bike out to you as quickly as possible. I’ll send you any updates as they are available.

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    Almost went this route. I love the Gates Center Drive system on my mountain bike.
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    I did get the same answer as happyjack.

    Hope this is a matter of days and not weeks and such. I wonder what combination of cog and sprocket they use on them bikes pictured here on the forum. Have seen pics of several 9zero7 SDR frames with Gates Belt drive recently, but no one with the NuVinci. Only pictures from Interbike...

    Bj.

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    That is nice of them to keep taking orders for this bike where a problem still exists.
    Least they could do is put a hold on further orders & post a notice on the web page
    Bike has only been a year in the making....bit late to realise the belt drive doesn't work
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    I agree with your sentiments motorman but at the same time hope to have a fun reliable fool proof excuse to have my wife embrace the winter a little more when it's all said and done - I too was wondering about the chainring/cog pairing that they were proposing ....guess I'll just ask them and let you know when they get back to me....

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    Walked into CRC a few weeks ago and spec'd out my idea for the perfect AK snow bike. Didn't know about the Tusken at that time, and nobody mentioned that name, while we built my bike on paper. But, except for a few small details, my custom build IS a Tusken. I haven't placed my order yet, and just checked the specs for my drivetrain from CRC's quote:

    - Gates Carbon CDX Center Trax 39 front 4 arm 104mm BCD
    - Gates 118T belt, 1298mm length, 10mm wide
    - Gates NuVinci 24 tooth cog

    Is this the same drivetrain that is now having issues?

    Thanx, Dave.

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    I was told the Tusken supposed to have 42 sprocket and 24 cog. Dont know the belt length.

    There are several combinations of cog/sprocket/belt that works with the given frame geometry (quote from fatbikes.com: "The sliding dropout gives a chainstay length of 450-466mm).

    There might be some magic ration 42/24 or larger that they will avoid, or some area of ratio with respect to hub guarantee issues. The larger cog on the hub the larger the momentum on the NuVinci hub internals (or something like that).

    Other thoughts regarding this issue: i'm sure its going to be a perfect winter bike, belt driven and all. If I gather all the parts at an internet store, and collect frame, fork and wheelset from fatbikes.com, the total price is way more than the complete build.I think it is a good deal, and looking forward to ride it once arrived and built up.

    Bj.

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    Colin at 9zero7 says they are now going to go with 42/28 - supposed to receive the sprockets from Gates this week and have bikes sent out thereafter - hope mine gets sent out before the weekend....FWIW - I think the added climbing assist will be nice with this new proposed combo - my wife has 42/28 on her SS and loves it - the added range the Nuvinci will contribute should be about perfect for our local riding (Laramie, WY)

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    Crank/Sprocket ratios keep getting lower (42/24=1.75), and lower (39/24=1.625), and lower (42/28=1.5).

    I remember reading that the NuVinci was supposed to run at 1.8 or above?

    Curious, Dave.

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    I assume a company like fatbikes has spent time with the manufacturer clarifying any guarantee issues when they actually sell complete bikes with a 42/28 ratio. I'm sure that when they state that this combination will be the one for the Tusken bike, then it should all be ok regarding use of it and guarantee issues that might be rised later.

    On the other hand, my experience is that recommendations from different bike part manufacturers have a lot of "safety margins" included in these recommendations. That being said, I do not encourage anyone to use any bike drivetrain set up outside of the manufacturers recommendations. You might end up hurting yourself or someone else.

    One question: Is this 42/28 combination in the middle of the gear range, so to say? So that the Nuvinci hub gives half of the gearing range on both sides symmetrically?


    Bj.

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    The Nuvinci provides 0.5 Underdrive to 1.8 Overdrive - so mostly overdrive which is why the lower gearing from the cogs is nice for hill assist - I cannot argue with BluNosDav that Nuvinci lists their minimum cog ratio at 1.8/1 - I can only speculate that new applications such as this have caused them to rethink some of their original restraints. I am outside of my element here - so maybe someone can explain why a lower cog ratio would be damaging to the hub in the first place.

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    Shimano also quote a "recommended" ration for the 11-speed Alfine (but not the 8)

    They recommend 1.9 (so 45/23 or thereabouts)

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    happyjack - they have to account for large riders going touring, I'd guess.

    Everything I've heard or personally experienced with the NuVinci suggests that you're not going to break the thing. I ran mine with a 1.6:1 chain drive setup. I could see the benefit of 1.5.

    That said I didn't engineer the hub and I don't know what the failure mode is.
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    Just posting to post so I can start a new thread...sorry for the inconvenience!

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    Thanks Drew - my wife weighs 113# - maybe 125# loaded for a weekend trip...and I'm gathering there is more slow speed spinning associated with slogging around in the winter - so I know we will not be able to report back on any high stress testing from our camp and we personally applaud 9:Zero:7 and NuVinci for their choice ... I'll do my best to report back on what she thinks of it as the winter progresses -
    Cheers

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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! NuVinci hub may not be strong enough..

    I recently just built up a Tusken, and the NuVinci hub lasted me less than 60 miles. I do not believe the freehub is strong enough for any strong rider or racer, so I would beware of that when ordering your Tusken.

    Looks like I'll be going back to a chain/sprocket drive.. sad because of all the money I spent on my Tusken frame + Gates/NuVinci drive..

    Here's a link to the NuVinci support forum detailing my problem and a video showing my NuVinci snap and quit working.. leaving me in the woods!

    nuvinci.informe.com/forum/bicycle-hub-support-f2/n360-broke-within-first-60-miles-t903.html

    youtube.com/watch?v=5AMAXM5W2OU

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    drizkol - were you hitting an incline and suddenly cranking on it when the cassette snapped?

    First N360 failure I've heard of. Since it was the freewheel pawls, I wonder what influence the belt had, or if it was just a faulty freewheel...

    Please do post up again once you receive your warranty hardware, curious if it is repeatable for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    drizkol - were you hitting an incline and suddenly cranking on it when the cassette snapped?

    First N360 failure I've heard of. Since it was the freewheel pawls, I wonder what influence the belt had, or if it was just a faulty freewheel...

    Please do post up again once you receive your warranty hardware, curious if it is repeatable for you.
    the area it broke was on the beginning of a small incline, so i would answer 'yes' to your first question. but i wouldn't say that i was suddenly cranking on it, if you see in the video, i had been pedaling on the decline and incline when it snapped - so i hadn't put an extreme amount of torque on the pedals at the time.

    not sure what influence the belt could have had.. but I'm guessing it was not a contributing factor.

    once i get my warranty hardware, i will post back up and let you know how that goes. im hoping to get the replacement this week and will hopefully be riding quite a bit soon after to test the durability..

    i really hope the new freehub will fix things - i like the belt drive, and the concept of the IGH - but not at the cost of walking my bike home in the middle of the winter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drizkol View Post
    i really hope the new freehub will fix things - i like the belt drive, and the concept of the IGH - but not at the cost of walking my bike home in the middle of the winter.
    Yes, of course, that's one of the goals of an IGH to begin with is to improve reliability. Tough part about MTBing use is that you have to be okay with risk as they are an unpopular item. I was an N360 early adopter, which I threw on a Pugsley, and the new owner of the bike is riding it religiously. I'm not a fan of quiet freewheels, which the N360 certainly has.

    Now if they made an almost silent roller clutch like on an Alfine... that would be dreamy.
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    What kind of grease is in the free hub? How cold was it outside?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrcRS View Post
    What kind of grease is in the free hub? How cold was it outside?
    I'm not sure about the grease, my certified mechanic put the bike together - but I will ask him and reply back. As for the temp, it was a balmy 50 degrees

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    Quote Originally Posted by drizkol View Post
    the area it broke was on the beginning of a small incline, so i would answer 'yes' to your first question. but i wouldn't say that i was suddenly cranking on it, if you see in the video, i had been pedaling on the decline and incline when it snapped - so i hadn't put an extreme amount of torque on the pedals at the time.

    not sure what influence the belt could have had.. but I'm guessing it was not a contributing factor.

    once i get my warranty hardware, i will post back up and let you know how that goes. im hoping to get the replacement this week and will hopefully be riding quite a bit soon after to test the durability..

    i really hope the new freehub will fix things - i like the belt drive, and the concept of the IGH - but not at the cost of walking my bike home in the middle of the winter.
    Driz... would love to hear how the warranty etc played out...

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    Good job! update after warranty

    I meant to update this post for a few days now, but I've been extremely busy with work, traveling, holidays, and (most importantly) riding my fat bike!!

    I was initially a little upset with the amount of time the warranty took to get resolved. All-in-all, I was waiting for my parts for about 10 days. Of course during those 10 days was when we started to receive some snow in my area.. go figure..

    Then the new freehub body and pawls showed up, my mechanic noted they were a different color, and they looked 'beefier'. When my mechanic originally called for the warranty and gave my serial number - he was told my hub had come from a 'bad batch' that had not been heat treated long enough. This actually made me pretty happy knowing there was a legitimate excuse for the failure - and it wasn't just by chance.

    After getting my wheel re-installed, it was back to the trails.. this time to prove if the hub was really solid. I haven't held back on anything - in fact I've been working very hard at racking up as many miles as possible.. approx 140 since the initial failure. These last 140 miles have been on long climbs, steep climbs, XC singletrack, gravel roads, deep snow, etc.. this hub has been solid!

    I have had 0 complaints since receiving the new parts - and I'm again satisfied with my N360 purchase. I know this hub is not ideal for racing, but I like the fact I have the most unique drive train I've seen on a fat bike.

    Unrelated to the hub.. but when initially riding my bike, I did notice a clicking feeling when applying a lot of torque in the lower end of the gear range. I found out that was due to my center-track belt rubbing on the teeth of the sprockets - which is not a big deal.

    As far as what grease was used in my hub.. my mechanic swears by Slick Honey, so that's what I'm running.

    Merry Xmas everyone!


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    Quote Originally Posted by drizkol View Post
    I meant to update this post for a few days now, but I've been extremely busy with work, traveling, holidays, and (most importantly) riding my fat bike!!

    I was initially a little upset with the amount of time the warranty took to get resolved. All-in-all, I was waiting for my parts for about 10 days. Of course during those 10 days was when we started to receive some snow in my area.. go figure..

    Then the new freehub body and pawls showed up, my mechanic noted they were a different color, and they looked 'beefier'. When my mechanic originally called for the warranty and gave my serial number - he was told my hub had come from a 'bad batch' that had not been heat treated long enough. This actually made me pretty happy knowing there was a legitimate excuse for the failure - and it wasn't just by chance.

    After getting my wheel re-installed, it was back to the trai

    I have had 0 complaints since receiving the new parts - and I'm again satisfied with my N360 purchase. I know this hub is not ideal for racing, but I like the fact I have the most unique drive train I've seen on a fat bike.

    Unrelated to the hub.. but when initially riding my bike, I did notice a clicking feeling when applying a lot of torque in the lower end of the gear range. I found out that was due to my center-track belt rubbing on the teeth of the sprockets - which is not a big deal.

    As far as what grease was used in my hub.. my mechanic swears by Slick Honey, so that's what I'm running.

    Merry Xmas everyone]
    Awesome ...that is good news! Esp as I just bought one! Thanks!

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    Congrats with an excellent choice of fatbike!
    When is it due to be delivered?

    Bj.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 9:zero:7 tusken-juletur-med-fattie-4.jpg  


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    How much does the Tusken weigh? What size do you own?

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    My Tusken weighs 15.1kg. (33.2 pounds) medium frame, with pedals, dillinger tubeless.
    Rear wheel is 5kg+ (11pounds+) with the nuvinci in there.
    Most/all of my riding is on sand and dirt trails. Belt drive shines in these conditions. No noise, no grinding.

  43. #43
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    I'm bumping this thread because I've been "fat-bike curious" for a while now. I'm already a fan of the Nuvinci. I had been building my imaginary fat-bike with a Pugsley frame and a Nuvinci hub, but knowing a Nuvinci option exists as a complete bike, with a belt drive, no less, could change that.

    People still riding their Tuskens? Still going strong? I see conflicting info on-line about the Tusken build. I see the Rohloff hub mentioned in some places instead of the Nuvinci, and it makes me wonder if this is an upgrade, or if maybe the Nuvinci wasn't working in that application.

    I'm curious if, beyond that initial failure in this thread, people are still using and enjoying their Nuvinci Tuskens trouble-free.

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    I wanted the Nuvinci hub, but, couldn't afford the Tusken. So, I bought an Origin 8 Crawler for half as much $$$, and have been enjoying my CVT.

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    How long have you been riding it? Hub handling fat-biking okay?

    I hadn't really been looking at complete bikes much, because I'd rather select my own components and build it up. But the Tusken was appealing as a complete because it had the hub that I knew I wanted along with the belt drive that I'd love to try. If that combination: frame, Nuvinci, and belt drive seems to be working, then that's one complete bike I might consider. Or I might consider building up the frame. If the Crawler frame had something to offer, and if it was even available as a frame, I might look at that, too. I'm just afraid there are too many components I might be wanting to swap out, including the rims. If I have to rebuild the wheel, I might as well not start with a complete bike.

    But the Crawler is on my short list of fat bike frames that can handle an IGH without a tensioner, so it could happen.

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    Haven't had any issues with my Nuvinci hub. I'm unsure why the latest Tusken has a Rohloff but its sure driven up the price.
    I love the Nuvinci on the sand. It is so quick and easy to vary the effort when the sand changes consistency. No loss of drive when changing ratio. Belt drive is also great in these conditions.

    9:zero:7 tusken-20131013_110404-medium-.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by okaruss View Post
    Haven't had any issues with my Nuvinci hub. I'm unsure why the latest Tusken has a Rohloff but its sure driven up the price.
    I love the Nuvinci on the sand. It is so quick and easy to vary the effort when the sand changes consistency. No loss of drive when changing ratio. Belt drive is also great in these conditions.
    Glad to hear it. I commute on a Nuvinci hub, and I love the shifting. I can imagine it would be even better on varying terrain. The added expense of a Rohloff is off-putting, but also I don't think I'd want to give up that shifting. That's why I'm curious how the Nuvinci Tuskens are doing. If they're holding up, and if 9:Zero:7 has gone exclusively Rohloff, there's nothing saying I can't build up my own Nuvinci version, which would allow me to make some other component changes and to spread the cost of the bike over several months, which will help with the sticker shock.

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    I've also filed a guarantee case against NuVinci. Excellent service, I dismount the hub and send it to fatbikes.com and they return a new one. Some money in credit due to the fact that I must rebuild the rear wheel.

    My issue were mainly two things. Some sideways slack in the wheel, couldnt find where from but it must have been the hub. And some grinding noise, especially when in low gears and putting power down. DIdnt want to break it completely, sp I had an email conversation with both Fallbrook and Fatbikes and they're service minded up to A1 standard. Good work fatbikes!

    Real problem: should I upgrad to Rohloff? Some serious amount of cost in between here, must think and re.think etc. The guys at fatbikes said they changed from NuVinci to the Rohloff mainly due to lack of lower gear. I agree.

    The setup I've got with a 42 sprocket and a 28 rear cog on the NuVinci hub make me miss some lower gears. Great for training technical skills though, I just need to put more power into them pedals to get ut that hill. While I'm considering Rohloff vs NuVinci i'm running a 27 front sprocket (in granny position) and 11-36 cassette, works for me!

    BjornS

  49. #49
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    9:zero:7 tusken

    Quote Originally Posted by BjornS View Post
    Real problem: should I upgrad to Rohloff? Some serious amount of cost in between here, must think and re.think etc. The guys at fatbikes said they changed from NuVinci to the Rohloff mainly due to lack of lower gear. I agree.
    I've never used a Rohloff. If the Rohloff shifted like Nuvinci along with its wider and lower gear range, I'd probably be saving my pennies for one. But I love the Nuvinci shifting so much, that I'm willing to put up with the higher low gear for now. If I felt that I had to go lower then a Rohloff would be hub that wanted, but given the expense, I might end up with an Alfine.

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