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Thread: 4.6-4.8" Tires

  1. #1
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    4.6-4.8" Tires

    Obviousoy there's a bunch of tire threads but I was looking to get some quick opinions. I run a flowbeist and dunderbeist currently. Love the traction obviously but they do require some significant legs to keep them rolling. I've had a Bud/Nate before and seemed they rolled better but lacked the grip and were less than durable. Looking for something in this category that rolls a little better but has decent puncture / tear protection with the grippy rubber compound of the "biest's"?? Maybe just a rear and keep the flow on the front to help make the longer rides more enjoyable. I have preference for wet root/rock and wet dirt traction over snow performance.

    Thanks!

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    Ground Controls, not as grippy as Dunder but rolls a lot better and very durable. Personally I think they are a great tire especially for non snow riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Ground Controls, not as grippy as Dunder but rolls a lot better and very durable. Personally I think they are a great tire especially for non snow riding.
    Thanks bOb!

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    NP!! Also I was speaking with an owner of one of the newer smaller bike companies and he was designing a tire in the 4.6 range that should be in proto stage now and hopefully available by spring early summer. He showed me the tread design and it's looking pretty promising.

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    Very cool!

    The colossus looks like it may provide some better roll-ability but still strong cornering knobbies....

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    I'm running Vee Bulldozer 4.8 right now. They don't shed snow as well as I would like, and the traction is marginal on snow, but I think they would be great for wet dirt and roots. I ride them in snow and have been nonplussed overall, but come spring and summer, I'll give them a go and see. I do think a 100mm wheel would be preferable to 80mm or less for something this size, spreads the tire out more for snow traction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basharteg View Post
    I'm running Vee Bulldozer 4.8 right now. They don't shed snow as well as I would like, and the traction is marginal on snow, but I think they would be great for wet dirt and roots. I ride them in snow and have been nonplussed overall, but come spring and summer, I'll give them a go and see. I do think a 100mm wheel would be preferable to 80mm or less for something this size, spreads the tire out more for snow traction.
    Thanks!

    My past experience with Vee's rubber compound has been super sketchy on wet anything, especially roots.

  8. #8
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    Dillinger 5, JJ4.8, Maxxis Colossus, Minion fbf n fbr, Bontrager Barbegazi, and big knards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    Very cool!

    The colossus looks like it may provide some better roll-ability but still strong cornering knobbies....
    I've had about 4 rides(3 snow, 1 frozen dirt) on the Colossus tires and they are pretty damn good. I'm running the 120TPI EXO TR version and they are fairly stiff in the sidewalls for that model. A little more than I'd hoped, but there is no tubeless version that is non-EXO and TR was important to me. They roll comparably to the Dillinger 5's I had before and are better in the snow and seemed just as good as the D5 on the one "dirt" ride. A little weighty at 1550g on my scale, but I'm happy with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    I've had about 4 rides(3 snow, 1 frozen dirt) on the Colossus tires and they are pretty damn good. I'm running the 120TPI EXO TR version and they are fairly stiff in the sidewalls for that model. A little more than I'd hoped, but there is no tubeless version that is non-EXO and TR was important to me. They roll comparably to the Dillinger 5's I had before and are better in the snow and seemed just as good as the D5 on the one "dirt" ride. A little weighty at 1550g on my scale, but I'm happy with them.
    Sounds like a great contender! Thanks for your input!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Dillinger 5, JJ4.8, Maxxis Colossus, Minion fbf n fbr, Bontrager Barbegazi, and big knards.
    Thanks! Haven't heard of all of those so will need to look a few up. Is the list in any particular order?

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    The Bontrager Barbegazi is a great tire. Up until a week back when I switched out to Flowbeist/Dunderbeist for snow riding I've been using them on DT Swiss BR2250 wheels since October. They've worked well in all sorts of conditions, including packed/groomed snow and crappy slush.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    Thanks! Haven't heard of all of those so will need to look a few up. Is the list in any particular order?
    Nope. Just rambling from the top of my head. I've used D5, Spec GC, Big Larry, Bud n Lou, Vee Snowshoe XL and the smaller tires like JJ 4.0, HuDu, Larry n Endo, Nate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    The Bontrager Barbegazi is a great tire. Up until a week back when I switched out to Flowbeist/Dunderbeist for snow riding I've been using them on DT Swiss BR2250 wheels since October. They've worked well in all sorts of conditions, including packed/groomed snow and crappy slush.
    Nice! Thanks for your input!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    Nice! Thanks for your input!
    You're welcome. And just to be clear, the other conditions are dirt/sand/whatever we have here through Michigan. Pretty much everything but sandstone / large expanses of rock.

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    Hey, there's sandstone in the Keweenaw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy79 View Post
    Hey, there's sandstone in the Keweenaw.
    Oh? I thought it was something else... The furthest north I've ridden this is Ishpeming, though.

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    I will second the Ground Control. It is a great 3 season tire. Higher pressure with a suspension fork eliminates any self steer and it climbs like crazy. I would consider the other options carefully however as you might be able to get 4 season performance out of 1 tire. Not the case with the GC. Straight ahead traction is fine in the snow but if your trails have any turns to the left, or right, you might as well be on slicks in my opinion.



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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    Oh? I thought it was something else... The furthest north I've ridden this is Ishpeming, though.
    There's a lot of rock types up there. Pretty sure I've seen sandstone there, but I graduated from MTU in 2002 and haven't ridden there since. I know there's a lot of sandstone buildings up there.

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    I just finished a nice short ride in 4 inches?? Of fresh powder. Breaking trail with the 45 n beist tires was awesome!

    They worked beautifully

  21. #21
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    Last winter, I ran Bud and Lou and was very happy with their performance on snow.
    Currently, I am on Bud front and 4.8 Knard on the rear. Not so hot on snow, so until I make time to mount another Bud on the rear or a Lou, I've been riding on the beach.
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    I really like my 4.7 bulldozers for the dirt . Might try the Snowshoe XLs this summer
    I'll let you know in a few months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Last winter, I ran Bud and Lou and was very happy with their performance on snow.
    Currently, I am on Bud front and 4.8 Knard on the rear. Not so hot on snow, so until I make time to mount another Bud on the rear or a Lou, I've been riding on the beach.
    The Bud/Lou definitely gets a lot of votes for snow riding it seems. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyJo1 View Post
    I really like my 4.7 bulldozers for the dirt . Might try the Snowshoe XLs this summer
    I'll let you know in a few months.
    Thanks for the input! I definitely did not have good experiences in Snowshoes. The traction was very poor on anything damp or wet and the dry traction gave way without any warning or driftiness.

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    All right guys, so after about 10 miles on the Dunderbeist I have a sidewall puncture. I'm not sure what caused it I just noticed that it was getting pretty squishy in the rear and saw the sealant leaking out. There's a slight abrasion on the sidewall so I guess I could have impacted a sharp rock or branch but the puncture is small and the sealant kept it rideable back to the rig. I was running 7.5-8 psi.

    I suppose I will try to patch and maybe even reach out to the bike shop to see if they can do anything since there's only 10 miles on it.

    That's brings me to my next point. You've made some great suggestions but can you recommend one or the other that will be more resilient to this experience???

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    My thoughts are here: Winter Tire Shootout: AKA Bud/Lou vs D5 (vs Snowshoe XL vs GC vs Vanhelga) Part 2

    Studded Bud/Lou works best for my type of ridding. Bicurious about the Beist's though once I'm sure the sidewall issues are fixed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    All right guys, so after about 10 miles on the Dunderbeist I have a sidewall puncture. I'm not sure what caused it I just noticed that it was getting pretty squishy in the rear and saw the sealant leaking out. There's a slight abrasion on the sidewall so I guess I could have impacted a sharp rock or branch but the puncture is small and the sealant kept it rideable back to the rig. I was running 7.5-8 psi.

    I suppose I will try to patch and maybe even reach out to the bike shop to see if they can do anything since there's only 10 miles on it.

    That's brings me to my next point. You've made some great suggestions but can you recommend one or the other that will be more resilient to this experience???
    A sharp object does not care if your tire has 50miles or 500 miles on it. When it's time it's time! Without knowing what you hit it is hard to place blame. As far as more resilient heavier is probably your best indicator but it is by no means foolproof. Patch it and keep riding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    Have 2 weeks on my Colossus tires and they are great, roll fast and with the EXO sidewalls I doubt they will be cut to easily!
    Thanks for the input! I've had great success with EXO casings on all my narrower tired bikes so I will assume that the traits are carried over to the Colossus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak View Post
    A sharp object does not care if your tire has 50miles or 500 miles on it. When it's time it's time! Without knowing what you hit it is hard to place blame. As far as more resilient heavier is probably your best indicator but it is by no means foolproof. Patch it and keep riding.
    True, very true! Just like to help minimalist this within reason. Had a Bud/Lou on a previous fat bike, punctured the Lou on a park trail ride, nothing really aggressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nsumer View Post
    The Bontrager Barbegazi is a great tire. Up until a week back when I switched out to Flowbeist/Dunderbeist for snow riding I've been using them on DT Swiss BR2250 wheels since October. They've worked well in all sorts of conditions, including packed/groomed snow and crappy slush.
    After a year on Ground Control tires I rode a friends Farley last week that had the Benghazi tires. I did not like them compared to my GCs. They rolled slower and washed out easier on the snow. Also had to put more effort into my pedaling to maintain the speed we were riding.



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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy43 View Post
    Straight ahead traction is fine in the snow but if your trails have any turns to the left, or right, you might as well be on slicks in my opinion.Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
    In my experience with the GCs, lower tire pressure fixes this.


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    Great conversation all.

    After my initial impressions of the 45 N. rolling a bit slower I checked my times on my GPS to find out that I was significantly faster through my normal section of trail which I ride the fat bike on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy43 View Post
    I will second the Ground Control. It is a great 3 season tire. Higher pressure with a suspension fork eliminates any self steer and it climbs like crazy. I would consider the other options carefully however as you might be able to get 4 season performance out of 1 tire. Not the case with the GC. Straight ahead traction is fine in the snow but if your trails have any turns to the left, or right, you might as well be on slicks in my opinion.


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    Huh. Interesting. Now I've only ridden GCs - two winters now - so nothing to compare to (yet). Snow only. I would like more lateral grip but overall I think they are pretty good in snow. I'm probably 200 lbs all loaded up and usually run 4.5 to 5.5 psi w/ lightweight tubes - sometimes a little lower psi if softer/deeper snow. At the Worlds in CB I climbed most of the risers that many racers walked - and downhill - fine but yeah could have used more lateral grip - but hey we are riding on snow. I guess my point is that I've found them to be pretty good overall. And if these are considered bad in snow, man I can't wait to try Bud/Lou!! Hopefully they won't be so good as to take the fun out of riding on snow :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CObikeman View Post
    Huh. Interesting. Now I've only ridden GCs - two winters now - so nothing to compare to (yet). Snow only. I would like more lateral grip but overall I think they are pretty good in snow. I'm probably 200 lbs all loaded up and usually run 4.5 to 5.5 psi w/ lightweight tubes - sometimes a little lower psi if softer/deeper snow. At the Worlds in CB I climbed most of the risers that many racers walked - and downhill - fine but yeah could have used more lateral grip - but hey we are riding on snow. I guess my point is that I've found them to be pretty good overall. And if these are considered bad in snow, man I can't wait to try Bud/Lou!! Hopefully they won't be so good as to take the fun out of riding on snow :-)
    If you are happy with the GC'S in the winter you are going to love Bud and Lou. I've been running the GC in summer and fall and studded Snowshoe XL or Bud and Lou in the winter


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    Quote Originally Posted by sdsyver View Post
    If you are happy with the GC'S in the winter you are going to love Bud and Lou. I've been running the GC in summer and fall and studded Snowshoe XL or Bud and Lou in the winter


    I'd rather be riding!
    I went from Bud and Lou to Ground Controls last winter and preferred the GC's for most of the snow riding I do. ymmv

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    Anybody tried running a GC backwards on the back? Looks like it may hook up a little better in snow that way? Maybe I'll give it a shot this weekend....

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    I really like the GC's. I run the rear backwards and the grip is better. They worked well at 3-4 psi in the snow but I did switch to D5's for the studs because of how many icy days we have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
    After a year on Ground Control tires I rode a friends Farley last week that had the Benghazi tires. I did not like them compared to my GCs. They rolled slower and washed out easier on the snow. Also had to put more effort into my pedaling to maintain the speed we were riding.
    The Barbis are a faster rolling tire than the GC - period. I can't compare snow traction between the two. My guess is that tire pressure is responsible for your impressions. I have plenty of miles on both GC's and Barbis.

    You'll be hard pressed to find a better rolling tire than the Barbi and that affords decent all season traction too boot. Currently you can get more bite in another tire (Bud/Lou) but at the expense of weight and rolling resistance. GC might be in that category to a lesser extent,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    The Barbis are a faster rolling tire than the GC - period. I can't compare snow traction between the two. My guess is that tire pressure is responsible for your impressions. I have plenty of miles on both GC's and Barbis.

    You'll be hard pressed to find a better rolling tire than the Barbi and that affords decent all season traction too boot. Currently you can get more bite in another tire (Bud/Lou) but at the expense of weight and rolling resistance. GC might be in that category to a lesser extent,
    You know the approx. weights off top of your head?

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    It looks like Maxxis has a FBF & FBR versions comparable to DHF&DHR of their smaller tires. I see that there is a 60TPI EXO version which may be a good option for the protection from punctures, comes with weight of 1620'ish, compared to 1520'ish of the Dunderbeist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    It looks like Maxxis has a FBF & FBR versions comparable to DHF&DHR of their smaller tires. I see that there is a 60TPI EXO version which may be a good option for the protection from punctures, comes with weight of 1620'ish, compared to 1520'ish of the Dunderbeist.
    And they roll like square turds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    And they roll like square turds.
    Pretty slow huh???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    Pretty slow huh???
    Yeah and mud wouldn't clean out at all either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Co-opski View Post
    Nope. Just rambling from the top of my head. I've used D5, Spec GC, Big Larry, Bud n Lou, Vee Snowshoe XL and the smaller tires like JJ 4.0, HuDu, Larry n Endo, Nate.
    What would you pick front and rear for aggressive PNW winter riding (i.e. Mostly wet, muddy at times, slick roots and rocks, little snow) but must offer better than average puncture resistance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Yeah and mud wouldn't clean out at all either.
    Wow that sucks..!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    What would you pick front and rear for aggressive PNW winter riding (i.e. Mostly wet, muddy at times, slick roots and rocks, little snow)?
    I know this wasn't at me but I would prolly go with Vanhelgas front and back for those conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    You know the approx. weights off top of your head?
    I measured 1356g and 1348g for the two Barbegazi tires I have, which is really close to the 1305g claimed on the package.

    I've been really happy with them through autumn and at the beginning of winter. I like the Flowbeist and Dunerbeist more when on both groomed and deep/iffy snow, but the Barbegazi is definitely a great tire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I know this wasn't at me but I would prolly go with Vanhelgas front and back for those conditions.
    Appreciate the input! I have a riding buddy that runs VH's And loves them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techspec360 View Post
    Thanks!

    My past experience with Vee's rubber compound has been super sketchy on wet anything, especially roots.
    If the Vee Tire in Silica compound or Silica only, is scetchy I can assure you that there is no better rubber than that other than on wet roots. It has a Durometer better then all other tires in the fat bike market.

    Unfortunately the Buldozer is having a rolling resistance like no other tire, but the Snowshoe XL is coming with Silica compound, but it is not as aggressive as Buldozer.

    Surly is not even close with a sticky rubber, either is Spec. GC, the 45Nrth and Maxiss dual Compound is better but is still 60/62 compound compared to Silica in the fifty on Durometer scale.

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    The Spec. GC is the best all year round tire if you only should buy one tire and could not get any other in let's say in one year, then I bought GC. They are the most durable of all tires I have had. They have best tubeless ability, the strongest sidewalls. It does not score best in snow or in the snow free months, but it does score best in average all over. It rolls really good too, I think it is because of the round profile.

    The Dunderbeist is the best climbing tire with the best groomed trail abilities. But I think it has to thin sidewalls and to square profile to be used in summer season. It is pretty light weight though at 1500 grams...

    The Maxiss Minions is promising, I have not tried it but should be climbing and shredding like the Dunder. It should be interesting to find out how it works on mud and roots.

    My favourite winter and in dry conditions in snow free season is Surly Bud.

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    Sometimes a wet slimy root is just a wet slimy root and things will be dicey on any tire to some degree.
    I'll be pointing out the obvious to some, (nods to Rumblefish) but rubber compound is only half the story on wet roots. You also need a larger lug with medium to wider spacing to grab the root and allow that more compliant rubber to do it's thing. In other words it's not the same mechanism at work as a tire gripping tarmac.

    A Knard will slip on a wet root if made in a whole range of compounds because of the short knobs and tight pattern, and by the same token a Lou will grip that root if made in a variety of compounds because of the larger knobs and more open pattern. Grip will get better as the compound get's softer and allows the lugs and carcass to comply. The point is that lug pattern is of paramount importance on wet roots and smaller wet rocks, at least as much and maybe a tad more than the durometer.

    The Barbegazi is a fantastic tire, but the medium sized knobs and medium spacing means that I have to make sure I have to pay attention and make sure I really have that rear tire weighted when passing over a wet root or rock. The flipside is the fantastic rolling resistance qualities, light weight and great traction in drier conditions - it's all about trade-offs.

    Rumblefish is right about the GC - it doesn't roll quite as well as the Barbi but still very well, it's heavier, but will have a bit more 'bite' in certain situations and those slightly larger knobs and slightly wide spacing will give you a slightly larger margin of error on those roots. It's a great tire until the deep mud holes arrive, much like the Barbi.

    I think GC rear and Bud front would be a great setup during the wet months. The Barbegazi is a much like the ground control in that it's a great all around tire, but give something up in the wet and muck - maybe 15-20% more than the GC's but scores better in the dry.
    Again - trade offs.
    When by Barbi's wear out I'm not sure what I'll do. I REALLY like them and could purchase them again and be happy, but might be willing to sacrifice a bit in the weight and rolling resistance categories to up my wet weather traction a bit. We shall see.

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    The grip cannot be compensated with knob pattern. I have been riding with GC rear and Bud front for 3/4 of a year, but gave up when the rain came in the autumn. The less grippy knobs of snowshoe Xl was better due to the rubber compound.

  53. #53
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    The relationship between the 2 factors is as I stated. Go shave the knobs on your Snowshoe XL down to 1mm in height, completely cut off the side knobs then come back and tell me the compound saved you and tread amounts to nothing.

    If you were correct in your contrarianism we would just need the Chicane cruiser tire in a soft compound for all conditions and we'd be good. Off road, the tread pattern on a tire is of paramount importance - that's why the exist. Same with dirtbikes which I experimented endlessly with tires back in the day.

    While working at the bike shop I was able to test every MTB tire that was released for a period of time and I can tell you tread pattern makes a huge difference. Oddly one the the best tires I ever tested was the old Storm Control from the mid 90's - it didn't look like it would work anywhere, but it worked everywhere.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    Rumblefish is right about the GC - it doesn't roll quite as well as the Barbi but still very well, it's heavier,
    GC is only 88g heavier than the Benghazi tire.

    2 GC tires = .388 lbs heavier than the Benghazi tires.

    Take a poop before you ride and make up the difference.

  55. #55
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    I don't care about such small differences , that was for the benefit of those that do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    The relationship between the 2 factors is as I stated. Go shave the knobs on your Snowshoe XL down to 1mm in height, completely cut off the side knobs then come back and tell me the compound saved you and tread amounts to nothing.

    If you were correct in your contrarianism we would just need the Chicane cruiser tire in a soft compound for all conditions and we'd be good. Off road, the tread pattern on a tire is of paramount importance - that's why the exist. Same with dirtbikes which I experimented endlessly with tires back in the day.

    While working at the bike shop I was able to test every MTB tire that was released for a period of time and I can tell you tread pattern makes a huge difference. Oddly one the the best tires I ever tested was the old Storm Control from the mid 90's - it didn't look like it would work anywhere, but it worked everywhere.
    It depends of what kind of terrain you are riding in. The softest rubber compound does in combination With knobs for terrain grip best on rock and roots and aggressive knob pattern does the grip in Muddy conditions.
    In my type of terrain, I am saying that for sure you can not compensate With knob pattern over the rubber compound.
    If Bud/Lou is the most aggressive tire it can actually be beaten by good margin by the snowshoe xl in Silica Compound on wet conditions on roots and rock. I have tried these and found out, and I did want to have GC rear and Bud front, but it was not good enough to ride in wet conditions.

    Agree about that in wet Muddy conditions it is the knob pattern that matters, but are you riding in terrain With mostly roots and rocks, and not so much gravel you cannot compensate With the knobs, compared to rubber compound.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    I don't care about such small differences , that was for the benefit of those that do.
    Good deal. Was just pointing out that they aren't much heavier.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    @ Rumble - I hear ya. Lots of variables.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    @ Rumble - I hear ya. Lots of variables.
    You will also find out the really big difference running exactly the same tire from Vee Tire, for example I have tried Snowshoe xl With Silica compound and ordinary compound. It is like biking two different bikes, everything is the same. The difference is bigger than the difference between GC/Bud and Snowshoe XL With Silica Compound, but not as big as you should believe since the GC/Bud have more aggressive knobs.

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    You have me curious about the Snowshoe XL now - how well does it wear? (non-snow)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    You have me curious about the Snowshoe XL now - how well does it wear? (non-snow)
    Do understand me correct, I am not a Direct fan of the Snowshoe xl either....the best would be a GC With softer compound or a 45nrth tire With more round profile and softer compound.

    The tire has not good grip in soft Mud and in snow as I would prefer.
    It does not wear as much, but it will also depend on the surface you are riding on. If it is Sharp rocks I cannot say how that will influence on the wear?

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