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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paochow View Post
    Maybe not in France, but here in the northern US, it definitely is....
    https://www.google.com/search?sclien...74.qUbvmlRVMSA
    Seeing every single major manufacturer is jumping in, I agree.

  2. #202
    bigger than you.
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    so many sandy vajay-jays...

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    so many sandy vajay-jays...
    Not to be confused with sandy vaginas
    Urban Dictionary: Sandy Vagina

    Or maybe.?.?.?.?.?.?

  4. #204
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    Curious to know more. What conditions did you test under? How much time did you spend on the 27 tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    i've been involved peripherally in the testing/design process of the Bontrager/Trek tires and discussed a lot of this with all the folks involved. I am sure they want to sell bikes and wheels and tires, and their marketing people are of course pushing their stuff. But they also do the most thorough job you can imagine testing stuff (including competitor's products). I would be very surprised if they were doing 27.5x4 as a gimmick. Travis likes to go fast too much to sell stuff that sucks.

    -Walt
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  5. #205
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    Rode, again, this weekend on wet, leafy, frozen trails. Found that the Hodags didn't really like the drop in pressure associated with the drop in ambient temperature (last ride report was in the ~70*F range, yesterday was ~35*F). Pumped 'em up and they managed to get some of their cornering traction back. I was, initially, a little surprised to run into this, as I'm used to getting more traction with a lower pressure, but with more squirm. The Hodags were the opposite (which shouldn't have surprised me since I normally wouldn't run this small of tire on an 80mm rim). Overall, the Hodags really lost a lot with the temp change. I'm still liking these better for warm weather riding (something I didn't, really, ever expect to think/write/say), and will likely continue using them next warm season.

    Overall, I'm glad Trek brought this size out. I really, truely do like it better than 26x4", but it seems to be a toss-up between 26x5" and 27.5" standards depending on conditions. Honestly, I kinda like that I'm torn between the two. It helps reaffirm to me that more options are never a bad thing...

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoo View Post
    Curious to know more. What conditions did you test under? How much time did you spend on the 27 tires?
    I was only involved with the 29 and 29+ stuff. I rode all kinds of XC to easy FR stuff around Park City. I was just giving impressions, not doing any "serious" testing, though. Trek gave a couple of us ex-pro racer/framebuilder folks some tires early on to play with. Whit at Meriwether has a lot of time on them and some good info at his site as well.

    I did do some super-ghetto testing on the 29+ vs 29, you can read about it here. Long story short: I'm faster everywhere on 29+ than 29. I don't doubt the same would be true for 27.5x4 vs 26x4.5 or whatever but I haven't tried it.

    -Walt

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Not to be confused with sandy vaginas
    Urban Dictionary: Sandy Vagina

    Or maybe.?.?.?.?.?.?
    yes. totes.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    It's just too bad there are so many roadies in their boardroom, telling them that a narrow q-factor was actually an important design criteria. Sigh...
    Q factor is very important to me, but I'm pretty short. Keeping a relatively narrow Q didn't really hinder tall riders but helps shorter ones. Or at least that's probably their reasoning.
    Just a little perspective from way down here!

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I was only involved with the 29 and 29+ stuff. I rode all kinds of XC to easy FR stuff around Park City. I was just giving impressions, not doing any "serious" testing, though. Trek gave a couple of us ex-pro racer/framebuilder folks some tires early on to play with. Whit at Meriwether has a lot of time on them and some good info at his site as well.

    I did do some super-ghetto testing on the 29+ vs 29, you can read about it here. Long story short: I'm faster everywhere on 29+ than 29. I don't doubt the same would be true for 27.5x4 vs 26x4.5 or whatever but I haven't tried it.

    -Walt

    since you wrote "everywhere". are you saying that 27x4 is better than 26x4.5 on snow?



    btw I was faster on my 29er than 29+. I have the power to move the 29+ as fast as the 29er uphill, but the tiny knobs on the 29+ was not confident building. the same for 27+ and fat 26". too small of knobs on plus tires so far.

  10. #210
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    I would guess that in most snow conditions, yes, 27.5x4 will be a little better than 26x4.5 or 26.5. If it gets soft enough the 26x5 probably wins, though. As I said, I have not even ridden the 27.5x4, I'm just extrapolating (perhaps erroneously) from the 29+ experience I have and Trek's own claims that wheel diameter is a better way to increase volume than width for traction/rolling resistance purposes.

    Did you listen to the Trek guys interview podcast? Good info in there. Obviously they are biased but they do at least explain their own logic.

    For my testing, I compared 2.2" XR2s to Chupacabras, because of the almost identical tread patterns and casings/shapes. If you are comparing very large knob 29er tires to small knob 29+, that's obviously not super useful. You might like the Dirt Wizards?

    It will also depend on riding style, I suppose. I was expecting a sort of bouncy fun machine that was generally slow. Turns out I was faster on every type of terrain, up or down. Pretty surprising to me, but makes sense based on Trek's stated logic/testing.

    -Walt

  11. #211
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    I am very exited about the new 27.5 Hodag.
    Let me explain.
    I am a southern rider, my bike will most likely never see snow.
    However I have many opportunities to ride through trails that pre-fatbike
    were nearly unrideable.
    I am wanting to build a new bike for myself on a fatbike frame for reasons of building
    a "summer wheelset" to ultra wide hubs, which will give me a crazy strong wheel build.
    However I do not want to build on an 80mm rim, most likely will be using wtb scrapers.
    I have spent time on 26 x 4 and It is too slow for me.
    The 27.5 Hodag will allow me to run a suspension fork up front and build on a 150mm hub, resulting in a strong wheel build and still give me clearance under the arch.
    It will be a smidge slower than 29+ but will give me more bluto arch clearance "real world mud clearance"
    This tire size will actually be better for "owning" endless rock gardens.
    I feel that it will maximize the potential for a wheelset for a southern fatbike.
    I feel that the 27.5 hodags competetion for performance in summer conditions will be from sizes 3.8-3.0
    I plan on seeing for myself what this tire size will do for me.
    I ride rediculously rocky terrain and loose river bed stuff. I just don't want to run 26 x 4.7-5.0,
    Currently being a krampus rider I was excited to see a jones bike displayed with 29 x3.2 duro crux tires....
    Could u imagine a 29 x 3.5? or 3.8? for that matter? It wouldn't fit inside a manitou magnum fork,,, That size would most likely be rediculously cumbersome also, so much weight and mass.... It would accentuate on 29+ only weakness in my mind.
    I plan on building a bike around the Hodag tires without even riding them. I know
    deep down what this tire size will do for me personally.
    On another note:
    Did Trek/Bontrager really beat Surly to the punch on something fatbike oriented?
    Way to go Trek for stepping out and "growing some" and having some fun.
    Seriously Way to friggin' go! American ingenuity right there.
    Thank you Trek/Bontrager!
    Last edited by mikeetheviking; 11-23-2015 at 07:52 AM.
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  12. #212
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    What is the down side of the 80mm wheel other than a bit of weight/rolling mass?

  13. #213
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    I don't see 80 mm rims for 27.5 x 3.8 as a downside....
    I just see myself using tires from sizes 27.5 x 3.8 - 3.0 that are already in existence.
    So using a narrower rim is going to benefit me
    I also happen to like the tire profile using a narrower rim
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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by FT251 View Post
    What is the down side of the 80mm wheel other than a bit of weight/rolling mass?
    For mikeetheviking's described riding, I'd have to agree with his choice for narrower rims. I'd do the same if I hadn't already purchased the Bonti's (at discount). I don't like having that small of tire (the Hodag 3.8) on that wide of rim, just for the sake of reducing rim strikes. Otherwise, Bontrager's profile design of the 27.5" Hodag seems like it was made for 80's.

  15. #215
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    This podcast from fat-bike.com is pretty interesting. It's a long interview with the trek farley team (engineer, product manager, and Travis Brown) on the Farley, their outcome of their research on the 27.5x4 and why they are all in on that format. Really an interesting discussion and well worth the listen.

    Here's the podcast: Fat Camp Podcast #7 – Ken and Andy Talk Tech With Trek Engineers | FAT-BIKE.COM

    The upshot of this is that their research shows the 27.5x4 is a lot better than other formats in all but the deepest loose snow. What they described was consistent with my test riding over sand with the 9.8 Farley (27.4) and the Pivot Les Fat set up with 26x5's on the same sand beach (relatively firm sand that would break free into loose sand if you didn't have a light touch on the pedals).

    I'm thinking that the 27.5x4 fits into a continuum between the 26x4 and the 26x5 where it is considerably closer to the 26x5 in terms of terrain compatibility than it is to the 26x4. It's hard to quantify since the science behind this is pretty complex and there are a lot of variables that have a pretty big impact. According to the engineering guy on this, a lot of the research on tires in loose terrain comes from the Ag world where research was done on low flotation tires for tractors with respect to fuel efficiencies etc.. I thought that was interesting especially given the large diameter of tractors with respect to other vehicles.

    J.

  16. #216
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    Well I am cool with it either way as I have 2 wheel sets for my Farley Build, 26x5 winter and 27.5x3.8 summer. I also have 2 forks, carbon for winter and bluto for summer. I think in my case the 29+ would be just too tall for me at 5'4" shortness. LOL I am counting on Trek expanding the 27.5 tire choices such as a Rogarou. Those look really sweet.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by FT251 View Post
    Well I am cool with it either way as I have 2 wheel sets for my Farley Build, 26x5 winter and 27.5x3.8 summer. I also have 2 forks, carbon for winter and bluto for summer. I think in my case the 29+ would be just too tall for me at 5'4" shortness. LOL I am counting on Trek expanding the 27.5 tire choices such as a Rogarou. Those look really sweet.
    Your plan sound similar to mine but closer to completion. I'll add the 26x5's only if I run into issues with the 27.5x4 this winter.

    I'm interested to see how the 27.5x4 does on the terrain I have to ride on this winter. One of the attractions for me was the ability to support 26x5 all the way up through 29+. I, too, plan to add a Bluto fork this coming summer but I wanted a good carbon fork for the winter.

    In that podcast, Trek had a discussion about what they were planning for tires. They talked about it in generalities, but that was because they have multiple tires apparently forthcoming and didn't want to spill the beans until they were available (reading a bit between the lines).

    Have you had a chance to compare the 26x5 to the 27.5x4 in some softer terrain yet?

    J.

  18. #218
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    Smartest money for many would be going with the F7 and holding out for a more sensible/logical 65mm 27.5 rim.
    You're just not gaining much (except weight) with the 80mm rims shipping with the F9's currently.

  19. #219
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    Jackalope 27.5 x 80mm rims came into stock today.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Jackalope 27.5 x 80mm rims came into stock today.
    I like turtles

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    Smartest money for many would be going with the F7 and holding out for a more sensible/logical 65mm 27.5 rim.
    You're just not gaining much (except weight) with the 80mm rims shipping with the F9's currently.
    Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion (and it makes sense to have a 50MM 27.5 wheel for weight savings) but I had a blast on my 26X3.8 Jackelope/Hodags all last year, so I expect these will suit me fine, especially for what i paid for them including the tires. They are well built wheels. And I will have the Bluto this time around tooi instead of a fully rigid bike,.

  22. #222
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    I read through this thread and maybe I missed it, but has anyone run the 27.5 x 3.8 Hodag tires on 50mm rims yet? I have a 50mm 27.5 carbon wheelset and wondered how fatter tires would feel after running both 3.5 Fat B Nimble and 3.0 Ground Controls for a couple of months.
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  23. #223
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    Mikesee has built both 26 and 27.5 HODAG tires onto 52 mm HUGO rims.

    you can see a photo of a 26 in hodag here on a 52mm rim, to give you and idea of tire
    profile for both 26 and 27.5

    Big Wheel Deals

    when you think about it.....It's not hella bigger than 3.0....
    were just adding .4 to each side, less than half an inch.
    Just wide enough to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
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  24. #224
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    The next thing I am curious about.... Is will the 27.5 x 3.8 Hodag fit front or back on any 27.5+ bikes in existence?

    Or is this literally a "fatbike" only tire?
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  25. #225
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    You guys keep spending my money...
    ...I need more tires!

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    The next thing I am curious about.... Is will the 27.5 x 3.8 Hodag fit front or back on any 27.5+ bikes in existence?

    Or is this literally a "fatbike" only tire?
    On a 50mm rim, the Hodag 26" tire is about 90mm wide. I'd assume the 27.5 is the same bead to bead/shape/etc, just bigger diameter. So probably a no-go on basically all 27.5+ bikes? You'd have to measure each frame but I doubt you're going to find a lot with 100mm of space.

    -Walt

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    Kind what I was thinking, Thanks Walt!
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  28. #228
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    Yeah I think it is going to be a fat bike only thing. I asked the mechanic at one of the bike shops here in mn. about the 27.5 x 4 fitting in the Trek 29er + bike (I forgot what it's called) he said it was one of his first thoughts, but its a no go. I live up in northern Minnesota and when the trails get packed down I'm thinking the 27.5 x 3.8 would be a good fit for me. Between Susie and I we have the three different wheel sizes her 27.5 + is on a narrower rim and I'm going to have it redone to a Hugo 27.5 and then get the 27.5 x 3.8 tires and give it a go on my Mukluk 2 I'm just having surgery on my neck on Wednesday so I'm going to be off my bike till the end of February.

  29. #229
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    Oh shizzle..... Hope your operation goes well!
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  30. #230
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    So, if I'm understanding this, a fat bike capable of taking 26 x 5" tires will also fit 29+, 27.5+ and 27.5 x 4" tires? And 27.5+ would offer the same bb height and fork geometry as 26 x 4" while 29+, 27.5 x 4" and 26 x 5" would all offer similar bb height/fork geometry?

  31. #231
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    Exactamundo
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  32. #232
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    27.5" Hodag on a 50mm rim is 86mm wide, 72mm high, very rounded. The 27.5" tire has less girth to it than the 26" tires. Very evident when you hold a rolled up 27.5" tire.
    I proudly ride for these guys.

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    I am trying to talk my wife into moving to the Hayward WI. area.. if I was getting a new fat bike it would probably be a Farley and have three wheelsets for it.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach View Post
    So, if I'm understanding this, a fat bike capable of taking 26 x 5" tires will also fit 29+, 27.5+ and 27.5 x 4" tires? And 27.5+ would offer the same bb height and fork geometry as 26 x 4" while 29+, 27.5 x 4" and 26 x 5" would all offer similar bb height/fork geometry?
    More or less, depending on the rim/tire combos in question.

  35. #235
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    Ok, which brings me to my next question, considering if this is a "fatbike" tire, Will it fit inside of early 26x4 "pugsley" esque fatbike frames?

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    Ok, which brings me to my next question, considering if this is a "fatbike" tire, Will it fit inside of early 26x4 "pugsley" esque fatbike frames?
    Yep! I was running exactly this setup (on a battleship grey Pug) with fenders for last month. A friend of mine (Sven7) was commenting this weekend how forward thinking Surly was with the first-gen. frames. 29"+, B-Fat, 26"-Fat, and 26"x5"x80mm all on one (albeit single speed) frame... Love!

  37. #237
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    JR Z,

    How did you like the 27.5 Hodags? how much clearance did you have in that pugs frame?
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  38. #238
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    This is how excited I am.

    I dream of a day when my children will live in a world without the shackles of cause and effect. - S. Colbert

  39. #239
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    Now that I've built a few sets of these I 'get it' a lot more. 27.5 x 4 is not the best for deep/soft snow in my backyard, but for people that ride groomed hardpack, they are definitely faster with more float than 26 x 4, and probably at least as fast but lighter and with less rolling resistance than 26 x 5.

    If groomed trails are your thing 27.5 x 4 makes the most sense.

  40. #240
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    It (27.5 Hodag) also fits in the Fox Boost 27.5+ fork, fyi. Which is pretty awesome.

    -Walt

  41. #241
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    Hey Walt, Do you have pics of the 27.5 Hodag in the Fox 27+ fork?
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  42. #242
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    No, I'm extrapolating from the 26" Hodag dimensions. I will have tires and wheels here to mount up very soon but it's VERY generous clearance all around unless the 27.5 Hodags are dramatically different (much wider) than the 26" version.

    -Walt

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    unless the 27.5 Hodags are dramatically different (much wider) than the 26" version.
    They are the same.

  44. #244
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    I have almost 800 miles on my 27.5 Hodags mostly trail and gravel they are great. We got 12 inches of snow the other weekend the first day was a little challenging but on day two and three when i had a good path they worked great. I think it really depends on the intended use but i think for the most part they work great. I just received a set of Minion FBF/FBR that i will be mounting to my second wheelset i am getting to see how those work on fresh snow and gravel.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    No, I'm extrapolating from the 26" Hodag dimensions. I will have tires and wheels here to mount up very soon but it's VERY generous clearance all around unless the 27.5 Hodags are dramatically different (much wider) than the 26" version.

    -Walt
    I would be very interested in your findings. Pictures would be awesome.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by dEOS View Post
    I would be very interested in your findings. Pictures would be awesome.
    I will take some when I have all the parts here. I mean, it will fit with lots of room, there's really not a question about that. Hell, you can fit Vanhelgas on 70mm rims in there (pics here: http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/2016-...l#post12343829) and those are considerably wider than Hodags.

    It's pretty great - those boost 34 forks will fit:
    -27.5+
    -29+
    -26x4 or so
    -27.5x3.8
    -Normal 29er/27.5/26 if for some reason you wanted to use one of those.

    Pretty great flexibility there.

    Edit: Here's a 29+ Chupacabra mounted up (this one has ~1000 miles on it, so it's nice and stretched out):
    https://www.instagram.com/p/_BSI_pry...n-by=waltworks

    -Walt

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    Very good to know, Thanks Walt! #herostatus
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    Here's a good reference image I just made from the posted photo. (which is perfect, thank you)
    I'm not buying the "it makes a huge difference" thing.
    I'm going to say zero to just perceptible, depending on circumstances.
    The tiny difference in contact patch, and it's increased length based on these 2 tires sizes is laughable.

    I may end up building a set on 50mm rims (because then it actually makes sense) but not for contact patch reasons. Just to be faster in the summer vs 26x4.6 stock on the 7.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 27.5X4  Who's excited? Who's not?-circumference-comparison.jpg  


  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeetheviking View Post
    How did you like the 27.5 Hodags? how much clearance did you have in that pugs frame?
    They'll be my go-to summer tire from now on, if that tells ya anything... Clearance; a little taller and narrow (talking millimeters) than a BFL on 65's. In other words, plenty!

  50. #250
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    I see it as more of a way to mess with tire size without screwing up bb height/frame geometry (ie 26x4.5-5 for deep snow, 27.5x4 for harder snow/sand/looser dirt, and 29+ for straight dry trails - all at pretty close to the same overall diameter). I am also dubious about any real differences in contact patch/feel but I guess we'll see soon!

    -Walt

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    By jrogs in forum Singlespeed
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