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Thread: 26x5.05 XXL

  1. #1351
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbasinger View Post
    I've been riding the black 2XL tires a bit over the last month. ....
    I just borrowed a pair of white tires from mikesee and I'm looking forward to comparing them.
    Please keep us informed and share your experience with silica vs psc (black vs white) once you've ridden them.

  2. #1352
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    My rear silica 2xl defects around 3/8 of an inch currently...will it smooth out and is there a trusted method to speed up process. Dealing with the carbon frame rub at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmattcor View Post
    My rear silica 2xl defects around 3/8 of an inch currently...will it smooth out and is there a trusted method to speed up process. Dealing with the carbon frame rub at the moment.
    Wuhaa, what carbon frame?

  4. #1354
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    26x5.05 XXL

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekke View Post
    Wuhaa, what carbon frame?
    It's a gsrbikes.com frame design made by chinese manufacturer 197 rear. It required me to trim side lugs to get it to fit. Seem like around 200g of weight cut off, all in the name of float...I did trim the vertical knobs a bit also but the below pic doesn't show that.





  5. #1355
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    Nice, how wide rims those are?

  6. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekke View Post
    Nice, how wide rims those are?
    80mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by akacoke View Post
    the purple farley 7 cleared them with no problem. i dont know why yours didnt fit they are the same frame as confirmed by trek. maybe early production tires? anyways , i have the 2xl tires already, just waiting a farley 5 my size to pop up so i can buy.
    I don't think the the Farley 5 fork will fit these tires. It has a lower brace of some sort. The 7 is a carbon fork.

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by headwind View Post
    I don't think the the Farley 5 fork will fit these tires. It has a lower brace of some sort. The 7 is a carbon fork.
    yeah, farley 5 fork wont clear. im wondering about the frame
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  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by headwind View Post
    I don't think the the Farley 5 fork will fit these tires. It has a lower brace of some sort. The 7 is a carbon fork.
    Not to mention if you want to remove it you would have to deflate the tire. I had a snowshoe xl on mine and it had to be forced by the caliper.
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    This past week I've made some interesting discoveries with both the tires and my bike. I rode to work in single digit temps earlier in the week and even though the trails were hard, I was pouring sweat, crawling along, and feeling a lot of resistance even on the plowed road. I'm riding and thinking that maybe I need two bikes? Maybe I need a lighter bike with tires in the 4.0 range for hard conditions? Maybe these tires are just too big & wide & heavy and the compound is just too sticky for snow?

    Then I happened to rotate my crank by hand when I got to work and was shocked by how stiff it was. I'd never cleaned off the factory chain lube/preservative and it had become pretty viscous in the cold temps. Later that night I removed the chain and left my bike outside in the cold and discovered the grease in my crank also became viscous and the crank had a lot more resistance in cold temps than in my garage at 70F. I then checked the tire pressure in the cold temps and found they'd lost 1/3rd of their pressure. The next day my bike felt way faster with tires aired up to 9 psi and different chain lube. I could even feel the crank spinning easier and just flew down the hard trail and plowed road. I made it to and from work faster than ever before with this bike. I thought about it and I'm betting another factor is my factory tubes are not large enough for these tires and at low pressure they don't fill the tires completely so I was getting a ton of resistance as the pressure dropped. I also called the dealer and learned they used slick honey on the crank bearings of my RaceFace crank. I looked up the specs and even though they list a temp range from - 65F to 250F, I've found it gets viscous in single degree F temps. The crank spins very smooth at 70F and isn't bad at 20F but I think the grease sucks. I never had this issue with my Fatboy crank.

    In summary I'm really pleased with the tires. At a higher pressure for hard conditions they balloon out nicely and have a rounded profile so the contact patch is greatly reduced on hard trails and plowed roads. I was able to pedal them at a pretty decent speed so I didn't think I was being penalized by the weight and size anymore. I'm just glad I was able to discover these things because my commute was becoming no fun and I was having buyers remorse for getting these tires. That is no longer the case.

  11. #1361
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    so there were some new frames mentioned kinda recently in the thread that are compatible w the 2xl.

    Has anyone taken note of them so we can add to them to the list or shall i go digging? Ha Ha

    I would like to know how the rolling resistance of the PSC and Black 2XL compare when someone has experience or knowledge. thanks

  12. #1362
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    ak-rider,
    I use Polaris snowmobile grease and have had good results. After all, it's designed to extremely low temp operation.
    As for the 5.05's, I've run em tubed but as you pointed out, the tube has to be inflated to higher pressure than is desired for snow riding. I don't consider plowed and packed roadways as snow riding cause it's on par with tarmac, hardness wise.
    I found as I experimented with my Surly Lite tubes and 5.05's that I could drop the pressure to 1.75 psi and have the tube still fit the tire/rim.
    Now I'm back to playing with tubeless again. I'm certain there will be a marked difference with tubeless 5.05's.
    Glad to hear that you're now enjoying the tires. Meanwhile, gotta go peel the tubes outta my tires and slip in some valve stems...
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  13. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    ak-rider,
    I use Polaris snowmobile grease and have had good results. After all, it's designed to extremely low temp operation.
    As for the 5.05's, I've run em tubed but as you pointed out, the tube has to be inflated to higher pressure than is desired for snow riding. I don't consider plowed and packed roadways as snow riding cause it's on par with tarmac, hardness wise.
    I found as I experimented with my Surly Lite tubes and 5.05's that I could drop the pressure to 1.75 psi and have the tube still fit the tire/rim.
    Now I'm back to playing with tubeless again. I'm certain there will be a marked difference with tubeless 5.05's.
    Glad to hear that you're now enjoying the tires. Meanwhile, gotta go peel the tubes outta my tires and slip in some valve stems...
    Good tip on the grease. I'm waiting for some tubes to come in to convert my tires to split tube but if that doesn't work well I'll look into getting the Surly lite tubes. Glad to hear there is a tube that can fill the tires up at low PSI. On my commute I run as high a pressure as I can but for fun riding and exploring I air down a lot and keep being impressed by the float, traction and what hills I can climb with these tires. I just installed my 26T chainring this morning so it's going to be fun to see what difference it makes on the ride this afternoon.

  14. #1364
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    ak, that sounds like a walk in the park with the split tube routine. I tried my 5.05's at 8 psi and they felt overinflated, but then, I'm a beanpole at 160 #'s so don't need em rock hard. I typically run 4.8's at 6f 7r and the 2XL's 4-4.5. they are heavy and don't get the same rolling feel as the JJ's but that's ok. Float and traction is amazing with 2XL's! I can stand up and mash pedals on the climb without doing a burnout in the snow. Lou is not quite as much float but performs flawlessly for Rocky mountain snow.
    26t sounds like you'll be able to climb telephone poles with little effort! Let me know how ya like it.
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    2XL compatible Frames and Forks

    here is the updated list of compatible frames and forks:

    Blackborrow size m and above frame and fork
    Surly ict frame and fork
    Quering Tripple b frame and fork
    Reeb badonkadonk frame and fork
    RSD Mayor (alu) frame and fork (limit to 80mm rims)
    Meriwether frame and fork
    Carver (titanium) frame and fork
    Pole taiga (frame and fork)
    Motobecane FB5 (frame only?)

    A few more out of Norway:
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X1 (455mm CS)
    -Nakamura Big Bob F50 (455mm CS)
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X2 (467mm CS)

    X1 and F50 come stock with JJ 4.8 on 90mm rims, but frame accepts 2XL on 100mm. Fork (Bluto) limited to 4.8'' on 100mm rims.

    X2 comes with 2XL on 100mm rims, ie. 5.2'' casing width. Both frame (aluminum) and fork (carbon) fit up to 5.6'' (ie. ''3XL'' on 100mm+rim)

    Not sure on the specifics of these:

    KHS 1000
    KHS 4 seasons 3000
    Fuji Wendigo (frame only?) which is the same frame as Motobecane FB5?
    Huffy (frame only)

  16. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    I tried my 5.05's at 8 psi and they felt overinflated, but then, I'm a beanpole at 160 #'s so don't need em rock hard. I typically run 4.8's at 6f 7r and the 2XL's 4-4.5.

    26t sounds like you'll be able to climb telephone poles Let me know how ya like it.
    Now that I'm aware of my stock tubes not filling up the tires at lower pressures, I can see how your able to get good performance out of yours with the bigger tubes. It's been quite the learning experience for me as I didn't have these issues with the bud/Lou's on my Fatboy.

    The 26t worked great today. It came with a 30 and that was too high. I then went to a 28 and it was a lot better but still found myself trying to shift into a lower gear quite a few times. The 26 work really well. I'm generally in the middle of the cassette for most riding and I've not run out of gearing on top or the bottom. I know I'll be winding out on the plowed, slight downhill section from work but my top speed is adequate for how I'm using the bike and the 5.05's. With the 30 I was never using my upper gears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    here is the updated list of compatible frames and forks:

    Surly ict frame and fork -When I emailed Surly they wrote that the 2XLs didn't meet their minimum tire clearance of 6mm and were not safely compatible with the ICT. They said they didn't suggest or condone using them even though they've seen people use them.


    Not sure on the specifics of these:

    KHS 1000 It needs to be converted to a 1x11 drive. The tire clears easily on the front but is tighter on the rear in the small frame but works just fine. If your rear 2XL is mounted sloppily on the wheel you'll get some rub on the chainstay. The tire needs to be mounted evenly. Things should be the same for all the '17 aluminum 4 season bikes. I thought I read the the earlier models , 15's had less clearance. Not sure if the '16 bike is the same as the '17?
    KHS 4 seasons 3000
    Fuji Wendigo (frame only?) which is the same frame as Motobecane FB5?
    Huffy (frame only)

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    Now that I'm aware of my stock tubes not filling up the tires at lower pressures, I can see how your able to get good performance out of yours with the bigger tubes. It's been quite the learning experience for me as I didn't have these issues with the bud/Lou's on my Fatboy.

    The 26t worked great today. It came with a 30 and that was too high. I then went to a 28 and it was a lot better but still found myself trying to shift into a lower gear quite a few times. The 26 work really well. I'm generally in the middle of the cassette for most riding and I've not run out of gearing on top or the bottom. I know I'll be winding out on the plowed, slight downhill section from work but my top speed is adequate for how I'm using the bike and the 5.05's. With the 30 I was never using my upper gears.
    ak, the Surly Lite tubes look anorexic when you stuff em in a 4.8, in the 5.05 they look like a road bike tube. They have to stretch quite a percentage to actually fill the tire/rim. After a new tire breaks in it can go down to 1.5 psi in a 4.8 and do just fine. The 2XL is filled at nearly 2 psi. Tonite I took the time to remove the tubes form my tires and install the purple valve stems i procured offa Amazon. 3 oz injection of Orange Seal Low temp in each tire and good to go with no fanfare. I'll be taking the Mayor out to play after church tomorrow and see how a pair of JJ 4.8 LiteSkin's ride. There's been much said of tubeless making for less rolling resistance, I'll be the judge of that tomorrow. 2XL's will go on for next weekend group in the high country!

    Good t hear that the 26t is doing you right!. I've been running a 28t for the last 4 years and, yeah, there are times when I wish I had an underdrive! It's all good, I need the cardio to keep up with my cardiologist's prescription. V8 power! I wish...

    All of this stuff we are doing with these silly fatbikes is what makes it so bloody fun tho!
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  18. #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    here is the updated list of compatible frames and forks:

    Blackborrow size m and above frame and fork
    Surly ict frame and fork
    Quering Tripple b frame and fork
    Reeb badonkadonk frame and fork
    RSD Mayor (alu) frame and fork (limit to 80mm rims)
    Meriwether frame and fork
    Carver (titanium) frame and fork
    Pole taiga (frame and fork)
    Motobecane FB5 (frame only?)

    A few more out of Norway:
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X1 (455mm CS)
    -Nakamura Big Bob F50 (455mm CS)
    -Diamant BLCK Diamond X2 (467mm CS)

    X1 and F50 come stock with JJ 4.8 on 90mm rims, but frame accepts 2XL on 100mm. Fork (Bluto) limited to 4.8'' on 100mm rims.

    X2 comes with 2XL on 100mm rims, ie. 5.2'' casing width. Both frame (aluminum) and fork (carbon) fit up to 5.6'' (ie. ''3XL'' on 100mm+rim)

    Not sure on the specifics of these:

    KHS 1000
    KHS 4 seasons 3000
    Fuji Wendigo (frame only?) which is the same frame as Motobecane FB5?
    Huffy (frame only)

    I just bought a farley 5 in 17.5 ill test fit 2xl with both 80mm and 90mm rims. hopefully farley 5 can be added on the the list
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    Good tip on the grease. I'm waiting for some tubes to come in to convert my tires to split tube but if that doesn't work well I'll look into getting the Surly lite tubes. Glad to hear there is a tube that can fill the tires up at low PSI. On my commute I run as high a pressure as I can but for fun riding and exploring I air down a lot and keep being impressed by the float, traction and what hills I can climb with these tires. I just installed my 26T chainring this morning so it's going to be fun to see what difference it makes on the ride this afternoon.
    Did you try the stretch wrap? Its a really easy and cheap way to go tubeless. I'm going to be removing Bud and Lou today and swapping the 2xl's back on. 10 minute job per wheel.

    The Trek Farley 7 should be on that list BTW.

  20. #1370
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    I've not tried the shrink wrap and it sounds like a great way to go tubeless. I actually had a roll of that stuff from Home Depot, left over from building my house and I'm kicking myself for throwing it away last summer. It was just sitting on a shelf for years and I was thinking what the heck am I ever going to need this for?

    My LBS told me my stock wheels were tubeless ready which kind of surprised me since they don't have any safety beads like I see on tubeless ATV or automobile wheels. They also don't have a clincher bead like I've seen with tubeless bicycle wheels. Their profile is shaped just like this |___| which to me seems will have issues with burping. I'm thinking the split tubes additional rubber will help prevent that?

  21. #1371
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    ak, I refer to it as UST Beadseat. All of the Surly rims available have it. There are a few "old school" varieties out there that are not good for fatbike service with tubes, let alone tubeless, lest you don't mind valve tear offs... Surly is used as an example of the UST beadseat.
    The old school style rims can be made up tubeless but with great effort and reliability might not be so good.
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  22. #1372
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    [QUOTE=mbmattcor;13030791]It's a gsrbikes.com frame design made by chinese manufacturer 197 rear. It required me to trim side lugs to get it to fit. Seem like around 200g of weight cut off, all in the name of float...I did trim the vertical knobs a bit also but the below pic doesn't show that.




    If i trimmed my rear tire it would fit on the back of my Moonlander. Does having to trim the tire count as fitting? We now have to start a it will fit if trimmed list. Not bashing just saying.
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  23. #1373
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    ak, I refer to it as UST Beadseat. All of the Surly rims available have it. There are a few "old school" varieties out there that are not good for fatbike service with tubes, let alone tubeless, lest you don't mind valve tear offs... Surly is used as an example of the UST beadseat.
    The old school style rims can be made up tubeless but with great effort and reliability might not be so good.
    I can see what you are describing on the below photo of a clown shoe wheel. My generic wheels don't have a similar profile.

  24. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighit View Post
    If i trimmed my rear tire it would fit on the back of my Moonlander. Does having to trim the tire count as fitting? We now have to start a it will fit if trimmed list. Not bashing just saying.
    I say no it doesn't count as fitting, but I mainly had to trim because of the tire wobble, I had some wobble on front tire too, but it seems to be waning. The back is still deflecting 1/4-3/8 of inch...it's maddening.

  25. #1375
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    My 2XL's also have that weird wobble. You have to take extra time mounting them, at least with my wheels, as they can get seated on the wheels in an out of round manner really easily. Last weekend after I unsuccessfully tried to use a dirt bike tube for a split tube, I remounted my rear tire with the stock tube and went for a ride. It started rubbing on my chainstay because it didn't seat it evenly on the wheel. It was so bad I had to stop, air it down, reseat it and then I was good.

    The wonky wobble seems to subside a bit after a while but I think something with their mold or production is jacked up since I've got three of these tires and they all have a slight wobble. If some other company comes out with a 5.05" tire I'd seriously look at buying it. I'm hoping it's just a matter of time that we see some more choices. There is definitely a market for a tire this large. Back when I emailed Surly about the 5.05's and the ICT I also asked if they were going to come out with a bike that can fit them and they wrote back that fatter was in the future.

  26. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    I can see what you are describing on the below photo of a clown shoe wheel. My generic wheels don't have a similar profile.
    The groove along the flange of the rim is what is necessary for reliable tubeless.
    Now put that hammer away! You might not need to break the piggybank to get into a pair of suitable rims. Keep an eye on the for sale section here as well as on fat-bike.com
    My 5.05's have a slight wobble in em. It's a tolerance thing on Vee's end. Their process for laying up the threads and plies that make up the finished tire are not precise enough and it's the nature of the ultra-fat.

    If Schwalbe or another company comes out with a real 120 TPI tire, I'm lookin into em. Lighter and more supple would be nice.
    Surly/Innova? Bud/Lou in 5.05, anyone??? And for the that experience ice enough to warrant studded tires a version with stud pockets.
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    I agree that a lighter version would be great. Maybe Surly will give us a 5 inch tire that weighs 500 grams less.
    We have the best snow conditions of the year today. Deep snow and +2C. The only way I could stay on top with the Bud and Lou was momentum. And the Bud is far worse up front than the Snowshoe. The Lou just digs. They just don't have enough footprint. Had to do the walk of shame a few times today.
    I just need some time to swap some tires.

  28. #1378
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    If Schwalbe or another company comes out with a real 120 TPI tire, I'm lookin into em.
    I would buy a 5.0+ Schwalbe liteskin tire in a heartbeat.

    So I was running my 5.05's at 3 psi on sierra cement sinking in about 2" and my friend was running Jumbo Jim lite skin 4.0's at 2 psi. During an extended climb, the suppleness of his JJ's made all the difference, he pulled right away from me as I struggled up the grade while doing a couple short walks of shame. Looking back at my tread marks, I could see the repeated depressions where the tire was not confirming to the snow. I use clipless and tried to maintain a smooth pedal stroke. My Bud and Lou never did this....disappointed.

  29. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmattcor View Post
    So I was running my 5.05's at 3 psi on sierra cement sinking in about 2" and my friend was running Jumbo Jim lite skin 4.0's at 2 psi. During an extended climb, the suppleness of his JJ's made all the difference, he pulled right away from me as I struggled up the grade while doing a couple short walks of shame. Looking back at my tread marks, I could see the repeated depressions where the tire was not confirming to the snow. I use clipless and tried to maintain a smooth pedal stroke. My Bud and Lou never did this....disappointed.

    2XL's are 120tpi. JJ's are 127tpi. Do you honestly believe that those extra 7 threads made the difference?

  30. #1380
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    2XL's are 120tpi. JJ's are 127tpi. Do you honestly believe that those extra 7 threads made the difference?
    No, but my friend's JJ's are showing the threads so they are very worn-in....lol

    I trust your knowledge mikesee, do I just need to go lower on these 2xl's...the Bud and Lou at 3 psi versus 2xl's at 3 psi act very different.

  31. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmattcor View Post
    do I just need to go lower on these 2xl's...the Bud and Lou at 3 psi versus 2xl's at 3 psi act very different.

    The 2XL's have something like 60% more air volume than any 4.8", thus the pressures aren't comparable. If someone is floating more/"better" than you on a smaller tire, you need to adjust pressures.

    Experiment to find the sweet spot(s)!

  32. #1382
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    My 2XL's are in no way as supple as my JJ 4.8's. In fact, they feel stiff as it gets. Albeit, the will soften up with a buncha miles with 1-2 psi.

    As I mentioned previously, if Surly comes out with Bud/Lou 5.05's and they are as soft and supple as my 4.8 version, I'll give the Vees away.
    Dunno if a JJ 5.05 LiteSkin would have the propulsion and stability, traction wise that Bud/Lou are famous for but they would be on my radar.
    It is amazing how different the LiteSkin is from the 2XL casing. Must have something to do with the rubber compound used to coat the casings as well as the thickness of the coating over the casing. Or, the 2XL's are 2 ply. Either way, 2Xl's are not remotely as supple as other 120TPI tires.

    Volume wise, 4.8 and 5.05 are two different animals. 5.05 @ 1.5 psi works in loose conditions. Bud/Lou 2f 3r in the same conditions. And ya can't be afraid to wrinkle you fatbike tires.
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  33. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmattcor View Post
    I would buy a 5.0+ Schwalbe liteskin tire in a heartbeat.
    Oh man a studded Nobby Nic 5.0 is my dream tire

  34. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmattcor View Post
    I would buy a 5.0+ Schwalbe liteskin tire in a heartbeat.

    So I was running my 5.05's at 3 psi on sierra cement sinking in about 2" and my friend was running Jumbo Jim lite skin 4.0's at 2 psi. During an extended climb, the suppleness of his JJ's made all the difference, he pulled right away from me as I struggled up the grade while doing a couple short walks of shame. Looking back at my tread marks, I could see the repeated depressions where the tire was not confirming to the snow. I use clipless and tried to maintain a smooth pedal stroke. My Bud and Lou never did this....disappointed.
    Lower pressures. These things really float at 1.5 psi. And they have enough volume to do this pressure quite easily.

  35. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    My 2XL's are in no way as supple as my JJ 4.8's. In fact, they feel stiff as it gets.
    As I mentioned previously, if Surly comes out with Bud/Lou 5.05's and they are as soft and supple as my 4.8 version, I'll give the Vees away.
    Dunno if a JJ 5.05 LiteSkin would have the propulsion and stability, traction wise that Bud/Lou are famous for but they would be on my radar.
    It is amazing how different the LiteSkin is from the 2XL casing. Must have something to do with the rubber compound used to coat the casings as well as the thickness of the coating over the casing.

    If the JJ existed in it's current casing construction in 5.05, you'd need to run more pressure than you do in the Vee's just to keep the casing from wrinkling standing still.

    I've ridden the JJ's. I liked the light weight. I wasn't a fan of the lack of traction, nor the need to run higher pressures just to give the casing some integrity.

    I also didn't like how quickly the sidewalls deteriorated and showed cord from running low pressures. They cost too much to fail that fast.

    I think the 2XL just has more rubber on the casing compared to JJ, and that added material is what's allowed them to survive into and through their second full season of being ridden 2-3x/week, never at more than 2.5psi. My JJ's didn't last one season of that.

    I don't/won't fault anyone for wanting a pie-in-the-sky tire. I'm not dissatisfied with the 2XL PSC. I'd simply like to see a front specific tread pattern to match the current one, which is emphatically a rear specific tread.

    As for Surly, it's not their path to walk through doors that others have opened. I'd be surprised if they released a 5.05. I'm betting they go a different direction.

  36. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    As for Surly, it's not their path to walk through doors that others have opened. I'd be surprised if they released a 5.05. I'm betting they go a different direction.
    Big Fat Dummy has advertised capacity of 5.25". Clearance, Clarence.

  37. #1387
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    Got the chance to ride one of these on the back of a ski bike. The thing is an absolute tractor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
    Hell of a jump, dawg. Even though they're baggy shorts, I'm surprised that you can fit your balls into them.

  38. #1388
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    That looks like way too much fun. If we would actually get some good snow around here again I'd consider trying that out. Can imagine not pushing a front wheel through the snow makes for some serious fun!

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  39. #1389
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    Noticed some talk of JJ 4.0s above: 3psi in a 2XL, particularly with the stiff 2 ply casing of the production version is pretty much rock hard and sort of like evaluating the rolling resistance of a road bike with 20psi in 25mm tires.

    Good friend of mine, who is a very technically skilled rider has a Canyon Dude CF 8.0 with JJ 4.0 tubeless on 80mm rims.
    Every time we get some snow, he wants to go for a ride with me. Why?
    Riding in the snowmobile like tracks left by my bike with 3XLs means that he can for the most part ride instead of push the bike.

    Went for a ride in incredible conditions on Sunday. In the first video below, he is at 2psi, which is pretty much borderline on that setup. I'm at a relatively firm (in a 3XL) 1.5psi as the trail was still pretty flat:



    I took them down to 0psi a little later as we were climbing on coarse/rotten stuff covered by approx 8'' of very light powder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zakEMMciXiU

    Rest of the ride was on more packed trails and groomed stuff, but luckily, my 3XLs roll pretty well, also compared to the legendary fast rolling Jumbo Jims.
    I'm 10lbs lighter at around 133lb and my humble 3XL on hundies equipped alloy bike at 22.5lbs is around 4lbs lighter than the carbon Dude, so gravity is not on my side either.
    The monster still rolls rather well compared to the JJ bike:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCaYrATmDk

    The superthin sidewalls of the ''3XL'' makes the Liteskin feel like a bullet proof vest in comparison.
    The Vee 1 ply casing of my protos from 2015 is so thin that it can deflect (at super low pressures) without breaking apart like a thicker sidewall can, so best of all worlds:
    Lighter: 1595g for a ''6 inch tire''
    Better grip as it conforms and does not buckle
    Rolls much better as less energy is wasted flexing a thick casing (think party balloon vs basketball at low psi)
    Lasts longer as the casing can flex without breaking apart due to more flexibility

    Downside is less resistance to cuts, but who cares about that in a powder tire. I only ride these on snow.

    I'm guessing that Vee used the 2ply casing in order to make then more resistant to cuts. It is possible that medium thickness casing (like Liteskin) will be the least durable at low psi since it does not flex as well as the thinnner 1 ply casing of my 3XL (or the 0.5mm casing of Juggernaut Pros), but does not have as much beef as the more rubber covered 2 ply Vee casing.


    Note that most race level normal sized MTB tires have 0.5mm sidewalls like the Jugg Pro. I have not measured the thickness of the 3XL sidewalls, but they are likely around 0.5mm, so nothing out of the ordinary when comparing to summer race tires like the Maxxis 285. Let us have Maxxis make a 5.5'' version of the 285 with 170tpi. That would be fast as heck.
    Tire casing really is like a leaf spring: a very thin one has good flexibility and lasts a long time, a thick one won't flex much, but a medium thickness one will flex, but might start to crack from fatigue.
    The combined spring rate of the casing and the air spring (tire pressure) is what keeps the tire from deforming. Stiff casing means high leaf spring rate and thus lower air spring rate required for the same total spring rate of the system (and the required deformation for the required footprint). Downside is more weight and higher rolling resistance as rubber is much harder to deform than air.

    Would be interesting to do a comparision with various pressures and various casings on a glass type surface where you can spot tire deflection and footprint from below. I suspect that the stiff casing might have more buckling in the contact area, and thus a smaller effective footprint despite the same length and width of the footprint.

    I have ridden these 5.6'' things extensively since Easter of 2015 and I have ridden 4.8 and 4.5 wide tires lately for the purpose of prototype testing. Being shocked at the lack of float, traction and control on the 4.8 and smaller, I'm being more careful than ever with the 3XLs as I would seriously not bother riding anything but packed snow again if I were forced to ride 4.8s. It is often the case that going back to the old stuff for a while really opens your eyes how much better the new and in this case bigger (volume) and thinner (casing) is on pretty much anything softer than pavement.
    Last edited by Espen W; 2 Days Ago at 11:18 AM.
    Espen Wethe
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  40. #1390
    frl
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    Wow. Did the guy with jj put an anchour to the jj 4. Did he ride tubeless?
    Seems like the jj 4 is slower than jj 4.8 in the snow. Or in the track you where riding. We have to try that out son. The 3 xl proto is sick. Like in the movie. You are riding when we 4-4.8 is walking.
    Hope Schwalbe, Maxxis, kenda +++ open the eyes. Make some big fat tires. 5.5 with thin casing

  41. #1391
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    Espen, I'd love to get my greasy hands on a pair of 2XL's or similar with a casing on par or lighter than Schwalbe's LiteSkin. They would be awesome. My current 2XL's are so thick and stiff that perhaps after a couple seasons of riding em nearly flat they'll break in and work better.
    I agree with you on the point of the heavier tires buckling or puckering as opposed to actually conforming to the surface.
    JJ 4.8's seem to do a great job of conforming as the LiteSkin casing is the right amount of supple.
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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