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  1. #1
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    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season

    4 SEASON 1000 - KHS Bicycles

    Ok just got this in today, and I have to say that aside from their doing the same as Rocky Mountain's Blizzard 10 (in using a 150mm quick-release skewered front hub and fork) this bike is a pretty damn good value packed bunch of features. Its got nicely milled out single-wall 100mm rims, lightweight rim strips (they're not merely rubber, they're a thin fabric that resembles seat belt strapping), Chao Yang Foldable 26 x 4.9 tires (more on them below), 12x197 rear and 9x150 front spacing, full rack and fender brazes, an alloy frame and chromoly fork, comes in two colors (this gloss green with silver and a gloss black with green), four sizes from 15 to 21", a 2x10 SRAM X5/X7 drivetrain with clutched rear derailleur, Hayes disc brakes, and Kore seatpost/stem/bar and decent alloy platform VP brand pedals all for a $1300USD/$1679CAD MSRP. For someone looking for an a more budget oriented alternative to a Surly Ice Cream Truck, this might be the bike you're after.

    Ok first the frameset details... its a 12x197 spacing 6061 butted alloy frame and chromoly fork combo with a 44mm cup straight headtube and sliding dropouts (so you can either run it as a single-speed or fit a bigger tire by sliding the drops backwards). Compared to the 2015 3000 level the major changes are the fork (chromoly and regular QR skewer dropouts compared to alloy and 15mm thru-axle), the headtube (straight ZS44 versus tapered zero stack) and they spec'ed an actual QR rear thru-axle instead of the 10mm allen wrench head thru-axle. Standover clearance is generous (this is a 17 inch frame pictured) and top tube length is good (602mm effective). 68.5HA/73SA is pretty good for a fat that's capable of taking just about any tire currently made and the stock fork is suspension corrected length, though you'll likely need a new wheel as well as a EC44 lower headset cup also unless you find a 150mm spacing open QR dropout suspension fork with a straight steerer somewhere. The fork has braze-on's a plenty for anything cages and low-rider racks and so on and given its over 1.6kg weight they definitely built it to the strong end of the fat fork scale. A RS Bluto is virtually the same weight.

    The gearing is pretty straight forwards fat bike fare... X5 2x10 shifters with X7 direct-mount / X7 type-2 derailleurs with a SRAM chain and SRAM PG-1020 11-36 cassette. Basic Hayes Dyno brakes with basic 180/160 rotors, and a KHS branded external bearing crankset with 22/36 rings. The BB shell width is the same 120mm as the 3000 model uses and there's definitely some weight that could be saved in those parts. The bar is a flat 700mm width unit that's lighter than the one that came on the 2015 3000 model at 254g (so roughly 60g lighter), 31.6x350mm post and an 80mm stem. KHS labeled saddle has green color accents that nicely match the frame's paint.

    The wheelset and tires are pretty damn good for the price point. The front wheel with skewer and rotor is a bit over 1.9kg but I forgot to weigh the rear wheel while I had the tire & tube off. Chao Yang 26 x 4.0/4.9 labeled tubes were both the same 556 grams weight. Chao Yang also supplies the tires which are branded as KHS Big Daddy with foldable 120TPI casings labeled as 26 x 4.9 size, and that like the Panaracer Fat B Nimble who's tread pattern they share, they're not that big. They're a high-casing profile with a short knob which puts casing width over tread footprint. The flat bead-to-bead witdth for the casing is 260mm but the tread is only 113mm. On the stock 100mm rims they inflate to a nominal 115mm casing and 103mm tread width. The wheels are built to what looks like a Novatec rear cartridge bearing 12x197 thru-axle hub and a formula sealed ball bearing front 9x150mm quick-release skewer hub. Both are 32hole and laced with black stainless spokes to triangle hole cutout single-wall 100mm rims. The tires were 1304 grams and 1335 grams which is pretty good for their casing size. Rim strips as mentioned above are pretty light weight at 81 grams each and tight fitting.

    The only change I made while assembling the bike was adding a bell and replacing the stock tubes with Surly 0.8mm wall light tubes (saving over a pound of weight in the process). As pictured the complete bike is 36.1 pounds.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10001.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10002.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10003.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10004.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10005.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10006.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10007.jpg  

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-fs10008.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    Looks great. Post a ride report when you get her dirty!

  3. #3
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    Basically same bike as the bikesdirect boris brut, except the brut has 150x12 front axle which means hub is bluto ready and brut doesn't have the rear tensioner as the KHS. Pricing is cheaper for brut. KHS are all catalog frames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Basically same bike as the bikesdirect boris brut
    That's a Boris frame with a 197 rear end, not a Brut frame.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Basically same bike as the bikesdirect boris brut, except the brut has 150x12 front axle which means hub is bluto ready and brut doesn't have the rear tensioner as the KHS. Pricing is cheaper for brut. KHS are all catalog frames.
    Except its not a Motobecane Boris or Boris the Brut, besides the fact the KHS has better warranty and dealer support and the bikesdirects are all merely catalog bikes not available outside the USA. The KHS has a different frame, different fork, different componentry. KHS designs their bikes first... then the manufacturer that makes the frames offers clones to other brands like Motobecane, not the other way around.
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    Nice bike. I like that color a lot. Hope you get a chance to ride it soon.
    It's all good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Basically same bike as the bikesdirect boris brut, except the brut has 150x12 front axle which means hub is bluto ready and brut doesn't have the rear tensioner as the KHS. Pricing is cheaper for brut. KHS are all catalog frames.
    Is there a prize for being first to try to make someone feel bad about their purchase?
    It's all good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Except its not a Motobecane Boris or Boris the Brut, besides the fact the KHS has better warranty and dealer support and the bikesdirects are all merely catalog bikes not available outside the USA. The KHS has a different frame, different fork, different componentry. KHS designs their bikes first... then the manufacturer that makes the frames offers clones to other brands like Motobecane, not the other way around.
    Fwiw, neither BD nor KHS designed the last model year of this bike, I don't know about this current one.

    Shouldn't really make a difference though- ride the snot out of it and let us know how it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    KHS designs their bikes first... then the manufacturer that makes the frames offers clones to other brands like Motobecane, not the other way around.
    Link?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Fwiw, neither BD nor KHS designed the last model year of this bike, I don't know about this current one.
    KHS designs all their bikes, and gets exclusive first year to the production of the frames. They then get peddled away to other brands in successive model years. This year's 1000 is a new frame, growing in rear dimensions to 197 with 120mm BB shell and picking up the same dropout sliders as last year's 3000. Boris the Brut has gone to the 197 spacing on a different frame design which still does not have the 120mm shell. The regular Boris resembles the KHS frames but lacks the slider dropouts and is still just a 170s rear spacing. Also the geometry is steeper (70 HA versus 68.5).
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Except its not a Motobecane Boris or Boris the Brut, besides the fact the KHS has better warranty and dealer support and the bikesdirects are all merely catalog bikes not available outside the USA. The KHS has a different frame, different fork, different componentry. KHS designs their bikes first... then the manufacturer that makes the frames offers clones to other brands like Motobecane, not the other way around.
    Having spent much time, many years around KHS and it's team riders, I can most assuredly tell you they design nothing and are all catalog bikes.

    Also I can tell you their warranty and customer service sucks, even team riders can't get simple parts replaced. I've seen several team bikes come from the factory with ovalized head tunes, all service told them was use JB Weld to fill the space and hold cups, great CS.
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    Hahaha, god you are a piece of work DeeEight. Are you a KHS dealer or something? I don't think I've ever run into anyone who had such a love for KHS.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beicster View Post
    Is there a prize for being first to try to make someone feel bad about their purchase?
    Not my intent, my intent was to point out for less money there are other similar options which allow for future upgrades. Just something to give thought too for future buyers who maybe looking for a new bike, but have limited knowledge or insight about options or needs.

    Also, if the OD is butt hurt about his purchase after my post, that is not my issue or fault, it's theirs for not doing more research about available options. People need to learn to take responsibility for their feelings, im not here to coddle people's feelings. Truth hurts sometimes, sorry not sorry.
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    To the OP, nice looking bike, and I agree, looks like a great bang for the buck bike. I just got the 2015 model year khs 1000, the 2016 has greatly improved for the same kind of money.

    Please do give us a report after you've put some miles on that bad boy. Love the green colour as well.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Not my intent, my intent was to point out for less money there are other similar options which allow for future upgrades. Just something to give thought too for future buyers who maybe looking for a new bike, but have limited knowledge or insight about options or needs.

    Also, if the OD is butt hurt about his purchase after my post, that is not my issue or fault, it's theirs for not doing more research about available options. People need to learn to take responsibility for their feelings, im not here to coddle people's feelings. Truth hurts sometimes, sorry not sorry.
    I'm not butt-hurt as you put it and the fat is actually for a buddy but I figured I'd post a review that fills in the details lacking from the KHS website before he takes possession of it. Now as we're both in Canada (which I thought would be obvious given I listed the CAD dollar price also), there is no better option for the money. The Rocky Blizzard 10 is cheaper but also has the same 150mm skewered hub and straight steerer fork issue, but also has no rack/anything cage mount options and has much lower component spec (Altus 1x9 setup, wire bead tires, heavier rims, mechanical discs) so it isn't really suited for someone intending to bushwack/camp with it unless you're of the frame bag only type). That's why in my original post I pointed out its a viable lower cost alternative to a Surly ICT.

    The Specialized Fat Boy SE is about the same price but runs a freewheel rear hub with an expensive e-bike freewheel on it, so not easily upgraded without changing the rear hub, low end mechanical disc brakes, QR hubs front and back, wire-bead tires again, steeper head angle. Norco has a Bigfoot at the same price point and closest geometry match but only a 170 rear end and less tire clearance and an Alivio 3x9 drivetrain. And you can bag on KHS with your experience with their warranty department but my experience through their distributor in Canada has been much better. Its certainly better than the non-existent support bikesdirect offers.

    As to doing research... I'd say I've forgotten more about fat bikes than you'll ever be able to research yourself. I build my own from the framesets up but my friends haven't the budget, skills or connections to pull off such builds themselves. Neither do most other people, for them its places like this and posts like mine where they're going to learn the things the LBS's aren't going to point out. But if you want to talk about research and compare a Motobecane to a KHS, it'd help if you understood the actual details of the Motobecane models better. The KHS 1000 frame itself would be the front end of a Boris, the back end of the Brut, with totally different slider dropouts, different geometry and different componentry. Oh sure it has name brand rims and tires and more easily swapped to a bluto, but the rims are only 80mm and Bulldozers only inflate to 4.2 (casing and tread) on such rims. So even in the lower-48 where you benefit from their free shipping offer its still not an automatic better choice. Not if you're after tire air volume or tire rolling speed. Of course I know exactly what the Bulldozer's inflate to having them myself on my Mukluk on Surly R.D. rims. And the Fat-B-Nimble/Big Daddy tread design rolls a lot quicker than a Bulldozer does for the same tire weight.

    So in closing, I'm totally not sorry that you're a moron not in command of the facts for making a valid comparison to another fat bike of likewise price point.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfisher11 View Post
    To the OP, nice looking bike, and I agree, looks like a great bang for the buck bike. I just got the 2015 model year khs 1000, the 2016 has greatly improved for the same kind of money.

    Please do give us a report after you've put some miles on that bad boy. Love the green colour as well.
    Its also $100 cheaper than the 2015. The bike gets its maiden voyage trail ride tommorow. Actually the 3000 model is $300 cheaper than last year and picks up an FSA crankset, carbon seatpost and the same rims as the 1000 (which are much lighter than the double-wall weinmanns the 3000 had last year). The 5000 also gets those three improvements but remains the same in price. The 500 remains the same price as well but again better rims, hydraulic brakes, thru-axle rear hub improvements.
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    Lots of Grinches in this thread. I'd say buttholes, but I'm trying to stay in there Christmas spirit...

  18. #18
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    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-chrisfatride1.jpg

    Well my buddy loved it, three hours after this photo was taken (at the end of its first trail ride where it saw mud, a flooded trail crossing, rocks, roots and soft ground) he was back out again on a night ride with it, and then again yesterday after we finally got some snow here that has stayed. We're due for a blizzard starting overnight and continuing into tommorow, so there probably will be a fat ride happening in the morning on more fresh snow.
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    Nice !
    I really liked the 2015 3000 model. Should have got.it instead of the Cogburn.
    What is the measured outside width of the supplied tires?
    How well do they hook up ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Trigger Finger View Post
    Nice !
    I really liked the 2015 3000 model. Should have got.it instead of the Cogburn.
    What is the measured outside width of the supplied tires?
    How well do they hook up ?
    The Big Daddy tires as KHS labels them are made by Chao Yang who share molds with Panaracer and its the same as the Fat-B-Nimble, just bigger. They're 4.1 inches tread width and 4.5 inches casing width on 100mm alloy rims at 7/9psi. On wet trail he found they self-steered along pea gravel when he tried to turn because they were finding good traction and didn't want to give it up. I wasn't with him for his sat night or sunday morning rides but he didn't text me any complaints other than he still isn't used to the self-steering tendency yet. Sunday trail conditions were a 1cm thick firm crust from the freezing rain/wet flurry combo we got the night before.

    The blizzard we've been waiting on, that began as those storms of tornadoes in texas a week ago and has swept north east since has just arrived here in ottawa and we're looking at a foot or more of blowing snow (wind gusts are passing 30mph already, wind chill is at -19C and falling).

    2016 KHS Four Seasons 1000, probably one of the best bargains of this model season-storm122915.jpg
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    Do you think think the big daddys will fit on the 2015 1000 model with the stock 80mm rims? Wouldn't mind trying those out now that we got some snow cover around the Waterloo-Cambridge area.
    Thanks!

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    I'm sure its the picture but that dude looks way too big for that bike . Hilarious!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerort View Post
    I'm sure its the picture but that dude looks way too big for that bike . Hilarious!
    It looks like a L person, and a S bike.

  24. #24
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    He's 5'11 and has a beer gut, he also tends to ride his mountain bikes BMXer style (so saddle too low for seated pedaling efficiency). The large size would have crushed his jewels the first dismount most likely as well as he's not really long in the leg. His 29er is also a 17 inch frame.
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    Hello DeeEight, excellent detailed writeup of the 2016 Khs 1000, and with appropriate pics too☺. Many of us appreciate it, thanks alot. Im riding a 2015 khs 1000 and even after alot of kilometers still satisfied n enjoying it. I wanted to get the 2016 1000 N put on a pair of snowshoe 2xls. Looks like there may be enough room up front, rear looks unlikely though. Anyone know? Thanks.

  26. #26
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    The 2XLs will fit, the frame uses a sliding dropout so you just extend it backwards for the taller tire.
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    Hello DeeEight thanks alot for replying, thats good to know. Will get a pair of 2xls when they are back in stock, the khs 1000 is easier to get. I downloaded all of your pics into my phone to show my friends.

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    lovin my 3000 ;-)

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    Yes Dee Eight; thanks for the thread!
    I do wish all tire mfgrs would actually measure the width of their tires . And list it in " and mm .
    How much travel do the sliding dropouts have ?
    With the 120 mm BB and the chain on the 22t front and 36t rear , Does the chain run inside the chain stay line? If that makes sense. Basically I wonder if, in low gear there will be any chain rub with any tire that fits in the rear triangle ?

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    DeeEight,
    Thanks for posting the review on this bike. I'm not familiar with the KHS brand but it looks like a good value for the money.

    Edit:
    Thanks to this post I looked into KHS, called a dealer and they were into modding bikes for their customers and boom, KHS had the bike I wanted!

    You can't complain when a $1200 bike that comes stock with hydraulic disc brakes, threaded BB, 100mm wheels and clutched rear derailleur can fit 2XL tire front and rear. Sweet!

    Last edited by ak-rider; 01-14-2017 at 04:16 AM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak-rider View Post
    DeeEight,
    You can't complain when a $1200 bike that comes stock with hydraulic disc brakes, threaded BB, 100mm wheels and clutched rear derailleur can fit 2XL tire front and rear. Sweet!
    I see you had to lose the front derailleur to clear the 2XL tire. How's the clearance on the fork blades / crown underside ? Did you shift the dropouts to the rear most position ?
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    Yes, the dealer swapped out the crank and converted it to 1x11 to clear the 2XL rear tire. The rear tire still has quite a ways it could be slid backwards. I've not messed with it. There is plenty of fork clearance for the front 2XL.

    I'm kind of having regrets not going with the cream colored 2XL tires as i understand they don't have snow stick to them as bad. I didn't give that much thought when I went with black as the cream colored were just too ugly in my eyes. But I'd never owned a set of tires on anything that seemingly magnetize snow to them the way these 2XL's do. I even sprayed them down with silicone the other day hoping that would help. It didn't seem to make a difference.


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