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  1. #201
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    I haven't sourced any parts, as of yet... but, that said, I would check with your LBS. They should be able to order whatever you need... The link I posted for niagra cycle above has a full wheel built with a black rim; you could always cut out the hub.

    Regarding efficiency... that's not, honestly, even close to the top of my concerns for my daughter right now. Gear range is MUCH more important right now... who cares how fast she can do something, when the alternative is not to do it at all? She constantly spins out on the flats where we ride, but the minute she tries to go up any moderately steep hills, she's stuck and can't get up. Her legs just don't have the strength yet. If I can give her a gear range that let her climb up the steeper hills like she wants, and not spin out on the flats, I'll jump at the chance. The fact that the IGH lets her shift at a dead stop is a really great bonus, too... no worries about having stopped in high gear and can't get going again.

    Max at Spawn noted that a rear derailer on a banshee sits about 3" off the ground... that sounds like it's just asking to be clipped or destroyed. Especially since she bangs her bike around a lot. She's a kid; that's the name of the game. I'm more than happy to sacrifice the 2% or so efficiency in return for the robustness and gear range.

    Of course, your mileage (and child) may vary. Frankly, if I didn't have 2nd daughter coming behind for the bike, I might not bother, and just wait for her to grow into a 20" bike that's made for rear gears. But with a second coming behind, it's an upgrade that will pay off for quite a while to come.

    Still waiting to hear back from my LBS on what they can source. Worst case, I'll source parts and try my hand at wheel building.

  2. #202
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)



    A few upgrades.


  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by split View Post


    A few upgrades.

    Most upgraded yet! Why no front brake though?

    All I've done to our little one is swap out the front chainring for 22T and the tires for 2.25 comp III style...

  4. #204
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)





    The fork is made for a 20" wheel with disc brakes. I want to find a 16" black rim to build up a disc wheel. And I figured it would be better to start with a powerful rear brake than to give him so much stopping power in the front.

    I found this picture and was inspired:

  5. #205
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    Split, can you tell me more about that fork? Looks like exactly what I want for my daughter's 20" bike. Where you got it, weight, cost?

    And why can't you just reuse the rim that is on there now for the new front wheel? That is what I did when I built a new wheel around the rear flip-flop hub talked about several pages before. Seemed to be decent rims.

  6. #206
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)

    I'm also curious about the fork and handle bars.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullSCit View Post
    Split, can you tell me more about that fork? Looks like exactly what I want for my daughter's 20" bike. Where you got it, weight, cost?

    And why can't you just reuse the rim that is on there now for the new front wheel? That is what I did when I built a new wheel around the rear flip-flop hub talked about several pages before. Seemed to be decent rims.
    The fork is an eXotic carbon 20" recumbent/folding/kids fork with disc brakes, got it on ebay for $150. Online shop at carboncycles.cc (CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Products :: Forks - Recumbent / Folder / Child Bike :: eXotic Carbon Rigid Fork for 20 Inch Wheel - Disc Only :: CC-F03-20).

    I could re-use the rim, but didn't want him to go without a bike while it was being built. We'll see.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by evandy View Post
    Regarding efficiency... that's not, honestly, even close to the top of my concerns for my daughter right now. Gear range is MUCH more important right now... who cares how fast she can do something, when the alternative is not to do it at all? She constantly spins out on the flats where we ride, but the minute she tries to go up any moderately steep hills, she's stuck and can't get up. Her legs just don't have the strength yet. If I can give her a gear range that let her climb up the steeper hills like she wants, and not spin out on the flats, I'll jump at the chance. The fact that the IGH lets her shift at a dead stop is a really great bonus, too... no worries about having stopped in high gear and can't get going again.

    Max at Spawn noted that a rear derailer on a banshee sits about 3" off the ground... that sounds like it's just asking to be clipped or destroyed. Especially since she bangs her bike around a lot. She's a kid; that's the name of the game. I'm more than happy to sacrifice the 2% or so efficiency in return for the robustness and gear range.

    Of course, your mileage (and child) may vary. Frankly, if I didn't have 2nd daughter coming behind for the bike, I might not bother, and just wait for her to grow into a 20" bike that's made for rear gears. But with a second coming behind, it's an upgrade that will pay off for quite a while to come.

    Still waiting to hear back from my LBS on what they can source. Worst case, I'll source parts and try my hand at wheel building.


    Evandy,

    Everyone and their children are definitely different, and I applaud you for taking a different approach. It also depends on where and how you ride. The trails that we ride are usually big climbs and then downhills, with little ups and downs in between. So my 3 year old has enough leg strength to get most of the small ups, but even with the lowest gear in the world, couldn't make the climbs. That is why we use this:

    A New Way to Get Kids Uphill

    This is my daughter when we first starting using it, and I have refined the product and it is simpler and less prone to breaking. My daughter can now ride almost every ride without being towed, and I think a lot of that is from the use of this system when she was younger.

    The other thing that I didn't like with the IGH, was it was even hard for me to shift at times. Maybe it was because mine was used pretty roughly, but it wasn't even easy to shift when I first got it. Hopefully the one you get is better than the Rohloff in that way.

    And what I read was that the Rohloff was 5x more inefficient than a conventional chain/chainring system (99% vs 95%). It's like pedaling in sand. It'll just wear their little legs out that much faster. Again, that is why I like the tow system above, they can pedal when they want to, but they still have to work on steering and balance and braking. And on the uphills, loss of efficiency is like adding weight to the bike.

    Best of luck, and I hope it turns out for the best - BS

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by trap121 View Post
    I'm also curious about the fork and handle bars.
    Race Face Atlas 1 1/4" riser bar. Matching Race Race Atlas 50 mm stem and Race Face Half Nelson ODI grips.

  10. #210
    CDK
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    Those are some pretty sweet custom setups!
    I'm dieing over here waiting for "late June" to get here so I can order one for my daughter. I don't really want to preorder one because their communication skills are horrible and I don't really trust that they will have enough bikes when "late June" gets here.

  11. #211
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)

    Here's our gear experiment. 2x1.
    The derailleur is just for tension. The big ring is the stock one in the bash guard spot with a 22t in the original ring position.
    Shifting is done by grown up, manually.
    She's been asking for a faster gear. She spins out the 22t on the flats.
    The cheapo derailleur puts lot of drag on the system. Not sure if it is the bushings instead of bearings in the pulleys or the really over stiff spring in the arm pivot. We'll see how it goes.
    If she otherwise likes it I will try to address the drag.
    The derailleur weights 279g and cost $15. Shimano Tourney TL35.
    I tried using the Alfine two pulley tensioner but the chain line was too far off.
    She turns 4 in two days.



  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_strom View Post
    Here's our gear experiment. 2x1.
    The derailleur is just for tension. The big ring is the stock one in the bash guard spot with a 22t in the original ring position.
    Shifting is done by grown up, manually.
    She's been asking for a faster gear. She spins out the 22t on the flats.
    The cheapo derailleur puts lot of drag on the system. Not sure if it is the bushings instead of bearings in the pulleys or the really over stiff spring in the arm pivot. We'll see how it goes.
    If she otherwise likes it I will try to address the drag.
    The derailleur weights 279g and cost $15. Shimano Tourney TL35.
    I tried using the Alfine two pulley tensioner but the chain line was too far off.
    She turns 4 in two days.
    Nice work! Curious, what BCD is the front crank and where can I get a replacement chainring?

  13. #213
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)

    64bcd. The trick is that the bolt holes for inner chain rings are smaller diameter since they normally thread directly into the crank spider. On the Spawn the stock chain ring has bigger holes, normal sized for passing the nut. To use a different chainring put the bolts in from the non drive side.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_strom View Post
    The cheapo derailleur puts lot of drag on the system. Not sure if it is the bushings instead of bearings in the pulleys or the really over stiff spring in the arm pivot. We'll see how it goes.
    If she otherwise likes it I will try to address the drag.
    The derailleur weights 279g and cost $15. Shimano Tourney TL35.
    I tried using the Alfine two pulley tensioner but the chain line was too far off.
    Oooh I like the dual chainring idea, versus 3 spd in the rear. My goal is to setup my Spawn Furi so my son can ride uphill better on trail days.

    EDIT: hmm... is it possible to remove to top pulley (and sacrifice a bit of chain wrap) to lessen the drag?
    Last edited by CeUnit; 07-10-2014 at 09:49 AM.

  15. #215
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)

    It is pretty clean. I have found that she is actually slower in the fast gear. She is little and just barely 4 so in the fast gear she looses cadence. She lacks the torque to push the fast gear at the same rate as she can on the easy. It is better for her when she stands to pedal but that is still not a super stable, frequently used technique.

    The single pull could help. I'll have to look into that. For now, since the drag isn't too bad in the easy gear I am going to just leave it there.

    G


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #216
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    Here's my first try at fire_storm's idea, on my son's Furi (14" version of Banshee)
    - 22T chainring I had lying around, drilled out to enlarge bolt holes
    - stock chainring bolts and spacers
    - stock chainring in place of bashguard
    - stock chain
    - Shimano SIS der hanger adaptor
    - Axiom No-railleur tensioner

    I'm not happy with the drag that the tensioner introduces, despite my attempts to align it with chainline. It's not much but it's notable. I'll try tweaking it later via taking apart the tensioner to see if I can lesson the spring tension. (EDIT: I drilled new holes in the tensioner for the spring to mount in a looser position, but anything less than stock led to the chain falling off when dropping the bike, etc)

    I'd also like to get some more chainring spacers to add the bashring back in since my son often rides with long pants on. (EDIT: This could also help improve chainline to both chainrings, as the stock position is ideal and the outer ring is off by 5mm - I'd like to shoot for chainline to be right between the two chainrings).

    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)-img_20140711_004624.jpg

    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)-img_20140711_004755.jpg
    Last edited by CeUnit; 07-13-2014 at 11:50 PM.

  17. #217
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    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)

    Quote Originally Posted by split View Post
    The fork is an eXotic carbon 20" recumbent/folding/kids fork with disc brakes, got it on ebay for $150. Online shop at carboncycles.cc (CarbonCycles.CC :: Components :: Products :: Forks - Recumbent / Folder / Child Bike :: eXotic Carbon Rigid Fork for 20 Inch Wheel - Disc Only :: CC-F03-20).

    I could re-use the rim, but didn't want him to go without a bike while it was being built. We'll see.
    Did you have to use that fork to set up the bike with the race face gear?

  18. #218
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    To get rid of the tensioner drag, you could set it up as a "dinglespeed". Probably best to use 22T and 24T chainrings (or maybe 24t & 28t for more gear range), then make a 2-speed freewheel from an old 5-speed freewheel. Set it up with 2 rear cogs also with a 2T (or 4t if using 24/28) difference and align their chainline with the crank chainrings. This gives you two separate chainlines and gears that both use the same length chain. You could get rid of the tensioner but you will need to loosen the rear wheel each time in order to change gears. Might work OK to leave the tensioner in and setup the chain with only just enough slack to change gears, then have the tensioner help keep it from skipping, wouldnt need as much assistance from the tensioner if chain length were constant.
    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)-img_5012.jpg
    Here is a similar 3x drivetrain I implemented with a triple crank using 30t, 34t and 38t chainrings and a 16, 20, 24t freewheel.

  19. #219
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    Thanks for the suggestion GrayJay!

    BTW, I started a new thread documenting my 'final' implementation:
    Last edited by CeUnit; 07-18-2014 at 02:17 AM.

  20. #220
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    Banshee came today! I was a little worried about it maybe being too big for my daughter because she is very small for her age in the 15% 38.5" tall with a 15.5" inseam. Fits just fine! Hopefully that can help others with sizing the bike to their kids.
    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)-aaa.jpgReview of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)-banshee2.jpg

  21. #221
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    i'm diggin that bar.

    crap! i gotta learn to climb.

  22. #222
    CDK
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    Haha looks familiar huh? Color option and price works. Went low rise which looks to be perfect for her.
    When we opened the box with the bike today she looked at me with a bit of a sour face and said "its not purple! I said i wanted purple!" I thought that the bar would be enough..Funny stuff these kids are.

    Thanks again for the advice in our convo!

  23. #223
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    Mileage may vary, however my 2 bits. I have a last generation Banshee, My daughter is 40" tall. As of right now, I check every couple weeks to see if she has grown into it. also roughly a 15 inch inseam. it is still quite unwieldy for her.

    But yes IMHO by 40 inch / 16 inch inseam getting pretty close.

  24. #224
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    yeah the new banshees are "shorter and stouter" as spawn puts it

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    sharing
    Review of the Spawn Cycles Banshee (16" wheeled bike)-dsc_0852c.jpg

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