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  1. #101
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    Mine direct from Schwalbe
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  2. #102
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    Anyone know what the Cannondale race weights stock?
    Race 24 Kids - RACE - BOY'S - KIDS - BIKES - 2016

  3. #103
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    Got my daughters size "large" Race 24 on Saturday.

    Went through it a bit yesterday evening. Some interesting stuff.

    26.8 lbs as delivered (reflectors, etc) - All Weights from My Feedback Scale (10g resolution)

    Front wheel (no skewer, but rim strip) - 840g
    Rear Wheel (and freewheel) - 1400g (yikes)
    Front Skewer - 60g
    Rear Skewer - 60g
    Stock tubes 160g each

    Here's where it gets a little weird.
    Front Tire was 870 grams
    Rear Tire (identical to front) was 630 grams

    -both are identically marked Innova 24x1.95 tires. That's some crazy variance. I re-weighed them multiple times. WOW.

    Stock Plastic Pedals are 330 grams
    Left Crankarm is 250 grams
    Right Crankarm with the stock steel rings is 700 grams
    Crankset total - 950 grams
    Seatpost - 340 g
    Saddle - 330 g
    Stem - 230 g
    Handlebar - 230 g


    So far I've replaced the tires (Rocket Rons at 435g each)
    Seatpost (gained a bit back here as my daughter really likes her S/T Thudbuster (410g)

    Crankset (530 grams as shown)


    Stem (a 160 gram unit)
    Handlebar (a 140 g Easton Carbon Monkey Light Riser)

    Down to just a hair over 24 lbs now. Still have to pull the front derailleur and cabling off (1x7 is plenty for her to keep track of and use)

  4. #104
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    fatchanceti - thanks for the update, pretty easy to shed 2lbs right off the bat. Could lose another 2lbs with a set of wheels, but those can get pricey!

    Thanks
    Mark

  5. #105
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    Rebuilding the rear wheel onto a cassette hub would probably help a lot.

  6. #106
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    Wow, this is great information. Did you weigh the fork as well just for grins. I'm sure it is still the best fork available for a 24" bike?

    What chainring size does the crankset come with? Are you leaving the same cogset for the rear? What crank arm length? Where did you order the crankset?

    My son has outgrown his Cannondale Race 24. He didn't get to ride it too much when it fitted him well. Now that he is getting on the big side, we've been hitting the trails more often. So I'll need to move him to a 26" by next season. But I can still save his bike for his younger sister. Might give me a chance to play with replacing some pieces. I knew the wheels were probably pretty heavy. Didn't realize such variance in tire weight? Wow.

    Have you thought of replacing the wheels? Or re-lacing with lighter hubs?
    Just get out and ride!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatchanceti View Post
    Rebuilding the rear wheel onto a cassette hub would probably help a lot.
    I agree, wonder what the rim weights? I searched around on google but came up with nothing. Stan's makes a very lightweight rim, but you would need to upgrade to disc brakes.

  8. #108
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    I can't recall which thread I read. But the read was that the stock rim is not overly heavy. That if you were to relace with a lighter hub, you'd get a good improvement.

    I think the challenge is do you really need disc brakes which I feel adds more weight. I suppose if you plan on riding in the wet a lot, it could make sense to make the transition.
    Just get out and ride!

  9. #109
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    I haven't weighed the fork.

    The rear uses a heavy thread on freewheel. That's the boat anchor part. Really need to get to a cassette hub to save any weight back there.

  10. #110
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    Circus Monkey hubs are 355 grams a pair on ebay, if the rims are light enough, that wouldnt be to bad $$$ wise.


    Quote Originally Posted by fatchanceti View Post
    I haven't weighed the fork.

    The rear uses a heavy thread on freewheel. That's the boat anchor part. Really need to get to a cassette hub to save any weight back there.

  11. #111
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    I put BB7s on my daughters Race.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic002 View Post
    Wow, this is great information. Did you weigh the fork as well just for grins. I'm sure it is still the best fork available for a 24" bike?
    I don't recall that the fork is super light. And there really isn't much in terms of steerer tube weight to save, as it's already surprisingly pretty minimal from the factory - maybe one washer under the stem?

    I'll see if I get a chance to weigh it tonight. It's nothing I plan to mess with really (I imagine it gets smoother as it breaks in - ours was pretty "sluggish" at first) since I'm not sure there's a better option (other than running a 63mm SID or something with a disc front wheel).

  13. #113
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    RST first air 24 is about 1620g - not really light for a 60mm travel fork but lighter than the rest and works better

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic002 View Post

    What chainring size does the crankset come with? Are you leaving the same cogset for the rear? What crank arm length? Where did you order the crankset
    The cranks are from bikesmithdesign.com

    The bike comes with 152mm? cranks with 24x34x42 rings. The ones shown are 135mm, I erred on the short side (my daughter is about 4'8" tall at 9 yrs old).

    Tons of options for rings etc. it's pretty much free to get the steel rings from him, and I grabbed a lightly used 32t n/w for $20 off eBay.

  15. #115
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    23.5 lbs as photo'd (26.8? lbs when I brought it home)



    135mm (104 bcd) cranks


    Gosh, this old handlebar from the bin sure does match pretty well:

  16. #116
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    Very nice!

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatchanceti View Post
    I haven't weighed the fork.

    The rear uses a heavy thread on freewheel. That's the boat anchor part. Really need to get to a cassette hub to save any weight back there.
    In addition to weight loss from using a lighter cassette hub, there is really no need for 32 spokes on a kids 24" wheel. Re-lacing with just 16 spokes is still plenty strong and saves close to 130gr per wheel. see thread;
    Kid specific Wheel Build for 40lb rider NEED HELP

  18. #118
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    I have another post about my daughters Race 24.
    2015 Cannondale Race 24

    This is a great bike, stock. My med weighed 26 lbs. I have changed the handlebars to Chinese carbon bars off ebay for $20, switched the grip shifts for thumb shift, new grips, handlebar waterbottle. I didn't weigh before and after but can tell the bars,shifters, and grips lighten up the front end. Tires are my next change but want to get some use out of the stock tires first.

    She has been riding this since last April and she loves it. Luckily we have great paths to ride and a safe 1.5 mile bike ride to/from school. Here is two shots showing the new bars, grips, and shifters.


    2015 Cannondale Race 24

    Cannondale 24" race 21 speed-bike-boston-grden.jpgCannondale 24" race 21 speed-bike-zakim.jpg

  19. #119
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    In case this helps .... just a further summary on components
    Quote Originally Posted by fatchanceti View Post
    26.8 lbs as delivered (reflectors, etc) - All Weights from My Feedback Scale (10g resolution)
    [/quote]
    I'm using the kitchen scale here so more accurate so long as it's small...

    Front wheel (no skewer, but rim strip) - 840g
    Rear Wheel (and freewheel) - 1400g (yikes)
    Front Skewer - 60g
    Rear Skewer - 60g
    Stock tubes 160g each

    Here's where it gets a little weird.
    Front Tire was 870 grams
    Rear Tire (identical to front) was 630 grams

    -both are identically marked Innova 24x1.95 tires. That's some crazy variance. I re-weighed them multiple times. WOW.
    Those tyres really are pants for any offroad use....
    Ordered some tyres ... not what I really wanted but based on availability/price and delivery date ...
    ]
    Stock Plastic Pedals are 330 grams
    Left Crankarm is 250 grams
    Right Crankarm with the stock steel rings is 700 grams
    Crankset total - 950 grams
    Seatpost - 340 g
    Saddle - 330 g
    Stem - 230 g
    Handlebar - 230 g

    So far I've replaced the tires (Rocket Rons at 435g each)
    The BB is square taper "English" thread. (i.e. 1 left hand thread)
    I should have photographed it but ...
    I did weight it and it came in at 340g ... which isn't super-light but you might go to a lot of trouble to find a lighter one that fits and saves 40g....

    I think it had measurements of 63/110 ??? (If anyone knows or that doesn't sound right please post - it will save me taking it out again)
    The reason I pulled the BB is .....at least here in Europe the S600's seem to be 90% powerspline not square taper and the S600's seem to be the crank of choice for shortening.

    I'd thought I'd buy a used one on eBay and have a go myself taking the risk of getting the hole straight without a press drill. My reasoning being I can do one now and one later when he grows ... (the frame (M) is really too large but I'm not ploughing more money into his 20"er) ... and with the saddle alll the way down its just OK...
    Stem (a 160 gram unit)
    Handlebar (a 140 g Easton Carbon Monkey Light Riser)
    I'm swapping out and have sourced a bar .... the stem I'm looking to go as short as possible ... like a 40mm.

    Down to just a hair over 24 lbs now. Still have to pull the front derailleur and cabling off (1x7 is plenty for her to keep track of and use)
    As a temporary measure I fitted the cranks off his 20" er ...
    I order a cheap (GBP 40) 24" disc compatible wheel .....

    Tru-build Wheels 24 x 1.75" Junior rear disc wheel q/r cassette at Raleigh

    You know it can't be good when they don't list the weight but .... at least it will let me replace the drive train and if it works out it has mounts for discs...

    As opposed to the S600 in sq taper 10 speed stuff is flooding ebay as people upgrade to 11 sp..... and the price difference is quite small so I managed to get a XT Cassette (11-34) Rear Mech and Rapidfire Shifter pretty cheap.... and also sticking a 40T expander on the back ... and a 30T narrow/wide on the front.

    Ive got a KMC 10 sp SL in the spares bin ... so Ill rip off the whole drive train and see what weight that saves.

  20. #120
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    Steve-
    the BB is likely for a 68mm width frame shell (not 63) and the length of the spindle is 110mm. Reasonably good/cheap upgrade is to get a UN71 BB (around $25) that has a hollow spindle and is almost 100gr lighter. Alternately, spend 4x as much $ on a titanium BB to save another 100gr.

    I have shortened several crank sets. In order to use a drill press, you need to fabricate a fairly sturdy and sophisticated alignment jig. I tried using a improvised jig with a drill press but it was not strait and sturdy enough to keep the hole in alignment. The pair that I later did just using a hand-held drill came out better than the set that I did with a drill press. Writeup of my handheld drill shortening is toward bottom of thread; SX 26" Trek 4500 kid build

    Your new rear wheel is 36 spokes, these work well for re-building as a lighter 18 spoke wheel, saves around 100gr weight and is plenty strong for kid use, see link in post #117 above.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post
    In case this helps .... just a further summary on components

    The BB is square taper "English" thread. (i.e. 1 left hand thread)
    I should have photographed it but ...
    I did weight it and it came in at 340g ... which isn't super-light but you might go to a lot of trouble to find a lighter one that fits and saves 40g....

    I think it had measurements of 63/110 ??? (If anyone knows or that doesn't sound right please post - it will save me taking it out again)
    The reason I pulled the BB is .....at least here in Europe the S600's seem to be 90% powerspline not square taper and the S600's seem to be the crank of choice for shortening.

    I'd thought I'd buy a used one on eBay and have a go myself taking the risk of getting the hole straight without a press drill. My reasoning being I can do one now and one later when he grows ... (the frame (M) is really too large but I'm not ploughing more money into his 20"er) ... and with the saddle alll the way down its just OK...

    I'm swapping out and have sourced a bar .... the stem I'm looking to go as short as possible ... like a 40mm.



    As a temporary measure I fitted the cranks off his 20" er ...
    I order a cheap (GBP 40) 24" disc compatible wheel .....

    Tru-build Wheels 24 x 1.75" Junior rear disc wheel q/r cassette at Raleigh

    You know it can't be good when they don't list the weight but .... at least it will let me replace the drive train and if it works out it has mounts for discs...

    As opposed to the S600 in sq taper 10 speed stuff is flooding ebay as people upgrade to 11 sp..... and the price difference is quite small so I managed to get a XT Cassette (11-34) Rear Mech and Rapidfire Shifter pretty cheap.... and also sticking a 40T expander on the back ... and a 30T narrow/wide on the front.

    Ive got a KMC 10 sp SL in the spares bin ... so Ill rip off the whole drive train and see what weight that saves.

  21. #121
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    BB will be 68x113 Steve and 18 spokes is just stupid

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Steve-
    I have shortened several crank sets. In order to use a drill press, you need to fabricate a fairly sturdy and sophisticated alignment jig. I tried using a improvised jig with a drill press but it was not strait and sturdy enough to keep the hole in alignment. The pair that I later did just using a hand-held drill came out better than the set that I did with a drill press. Writeup of my handheld drill shortening is toward bottom of thread; SX 26" Trek 4500 kid build
    Thanks, that might be really useful.
    As it turns out the "local" crank shorteners can do it in a few days if I can post it today. (Which means it needs to arrive today)

    I'll probably just use them instead of buying the taps if it works out.

  23. #123
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    Spectra cranks off ebay are 150mm and come it at 580 grams with chainring. $42 delivered.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Steve-

    I have shortened several crank sets. In order to use a drill press, you need to fabricate a fairly sturdy and sophisticated alignment jig. I tried using a improvised jig with a drill press but it was not strait and sturdy enough to keep the hole in alignment. The pair that I later did just using a hand-held drill came out better than the set that I did with a drill press. Writeup of my handheld drill shortening is toward bottom of thread; SX 26" Trek 4500 kid build
    OK, quick shot then ... possibly not my finest engineering moment but I'm sure it will do the job.

    Cannondale 24" race 21 speed-24711243440_af4599ef34_b.jpg

    Cannondale 24" race 21 speed-24980430416_7dd0218217_c.jpg

    SunTour was 985g
    SRAM-Shoertened with 30T = 558g

  25. #125
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    Update now 1x10 XT

    Finished the cranks and now added the narrow wide 30T and XT 12-36 with XT shifters and XT M780 shadow + rear mech and my replacement chain (bought in sales) a KMX X10-SL

    Cannondale 24" race 21 speed-img_0690.jpgCannondale 24" race 21 speed-img_0689.jpgCannondale 24" race 21 speed-img_0688.jpgCannondale 24" race 21 speed-img_0687.jpgCannondale 24" race 21 speed-img_0686.jpg

  26. #126
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    Now with STX disc goodness on the rear.... (leaving front as V brakes until I both have a new wheel and he learns to modulate the rear hydraulic
    brakes....)

    So taking the 28.8lbs that's 12.1 kg and the fleabay chinese luggage scales say 11.1 Kg (So I lost about 1kg or 2.2 lbs)

    With:
    Chainwheel/Cranks I lost 427g
    Tyres are both RRons but with original tubes
    Rear wheel and Hub I need to weigh but I put on a fairly rubbish rear wheel as it was all I could get with disc mounts, QR and cassette .... I didnt compare without cassette ... so tios a bit of a black hole... XT11-36 cassette obviously weight muchless than freewheel but probably added weight on rims, spokes and "hub" (excluding freewheel bit)

    For the sake of guestimate I'll call it evens on the rear wheel....

    Still got the original bars, seatpost, stem and BB
    Lost the gripshift and front and rear mech and replaced by 1x10 XT
    Removed front brake and replaced with STX disk.... (probably a tad heavier)

    Overall though down 1kg with scope to go sub 10 with a few basic changes and perhaps another 1kg on the wheels ???

    So fleabay provided a front disc wheel for 10 (and 8 post)
    and on the two trips he's mastered (or certainly got the hang of) modulation on the back disc... so its time to try a front disk....

    meanwhile an unfortunate crash hit the XT shifter window onto a tree root (or it might have been his head but anyway)

    I picked up a bargain XT M780 ... which I then paid 20 for the ISPEC conversion to rip off the indicator window and mount to the brake lever.

    This leaves me potentially 2 Z1000 rims I can rip apart .... both 32H

    Question now is.... do I use them and pay for good hubs ... ?
    Last edited by Steve-XtC; 03-08-2016 at 01:04 PM. Reason: more info

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    BB will be 68x113 Steve and 18 spokes is just stupid
    All bets are off ... 68x122 (as labelled and measured)

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-XtC View Post
    All bets are off ... 68x122 (as labelled and measured)
    for the S600? its a low profile crank so should take a 113mm width for a 48.5mm chainline or 118mm for 51mm chainline. 122mm is for bulky cranks that are normally on cheaper end of the market bikes and would give a 53mm chainline with an S600 crank.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    for the S600? its a low profile crank so should take a 113mm width for a 48.5mm chainline or 118mm for 51mm chainline. 122mm is for bulky cranks that are normally on cheaper end of the market bikes and would give a 53mm chainline with an S600 crank.
    It's what was in...
    So a UN55 113/118 would be better ?
    Any simple way to tell?

  30. #130
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    113 would be better much better

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    I took the bike into the local Evans (not sure if that qualifies as LBS) but I know the guys a little and they were keen to see the bike. (I'd asked if they could source any 24" wheels amongst other things)

    So we tried a 118 (they had a 113 as well) and the 118 fitted very well, the chain was just pulling out a little in 10th but we couldn't have got the extra 5mm off for the 113 without the chain line going off.

    They were kind enough to fit free of charge which was a nice gesture except I didn't weigh the replacement and I was planning on taking the cranks off next weekend anyway as I have to transport both bikes to Sherwood for a weeks holiday and I have no rack so its back seat time. (Not a problem just the bikes but I need to take some other stuff for a weeks self catering)

  32. #132
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    the chainline will be further out with a 118 so the chain will be more stressed in the larger cogs. Measure the actual chainline from the centre of the BB to the chain.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    the chainline will be further out with a 118 so the chain will be more stressed in the larger cogs. Measure the actual chainline from the centre of the BB to the chain.
    The 118 looks OK ....

    I'm really thinking I'll stop tinkering on the drivetrain for now and perhaps revisit it later in terms of a whole rethink that includes an intrinsically lighter BB. I have access to a full workshop with CNC setup with plasma and water cutters (if I have the time and it's 300 miles away) and the SRAM S600 itself is hugely over-engineered for a 25kg rider... as is a square taper BB... I'm thinking of the 900g on BB/Cranks I could save 450g...

  34. #134
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    Added carbon bars, Hussle stem, Ti seatpost and new pedals, changed BB

    Weight without wheels is now 6.8kg (15.1 lbs)
    Adding 300g for the discs it's 7.1 kg (15.8 lbs)

    By way of comparison the Titanium Trailcraft weights 19.36lbs () with Ti forks
    The forks weigh 660g and the RST's weigh 1690g so presumably the trailcraft with RST's weighs 9759g with wheels

    The trailcraft wheels weigh 1500g with rim tape and adding 2x440g for the Rocket Rons and that makes the frame + unknown tubes + air in the tubes 7149g (15.87 lbs)

    I'm sure Trailcraft err on the side of caution on their wheel weights and tyres so my guess is the Cannondale isn't quite as light but not far off once upgraded.

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    Just picked up a new one for my daughter from REI on sale for $399... Excited to begin taking it apart.. Glad to see this thread!

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by go_ride_your_bike View Post
    Just picked up a new one for my daughter from REI on sale for $399... Excited to begin taking it apart.. Glad to see this thread!
    The rei deal was great. If I lived closer to an "authorized canondale rei" I would have bought one.
    Ridley CX, Stumpjumper Carbon HT, Surly Wednesday

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by go_ride_your_bike View Post
    Just picked up a new one for my daughter from REI on sale for $399... Excited to begin taking it apart.. Glad to see this thread!
    Depending just how mad you want to get ..... and with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight....

    Saddle, bars, stem and saddle and pedals are the easiest 1lb or so and less dependencies.... The carbon bar cost 7 (delivered), Stem about 5, Saddle 10 (from 15) and Seatpost is used Ti from eBay... (20)


    Then if you want 1x10 or 1x11 you need to think about either rear hub or wheel .... and whilst doing this consider if you want disc brakes or not! Whilst deciding that consider the cranks.
    I was surprised how easy shortening the SRAM S600 was... and how much weight it saves with a alloy narrow wide fitted...
    We are currently running 1x10 with 30T front and 40T rear using extender on a 12-36 with the 12 removed...
    Retrospectively ... I'd Go M8000 now! The thumbshift gets a bit harder to press with the 40T installed and clutch on... but I got ISPEC-B so its stopping for now!



    Retrospectively (again) I underestimated the rarity of good 24" wheels ... (hugely) ... especially with discs.... someone was selling a pair I should have snapped up instead of pontificating!

    I'm now waiting delivery of some Stans Crest and have some Novatech D771/D772's sat in front of me and some Sapim CX-Rays on order (they also turned out to be a pain....but that's a different story down to a supplier that seems incapable of accurate communication - they were on sale at 99p each but they only had 16 + 7 in stock so I ended up ordering the other 1 + 8 at fullish price and the 9 cost more than the rest)

    Had I thought it through I'd have either gone with a 28H or 36H laced as 18...?

    I pulled apart a Z1000 wheel on the Cannondale and weighed one ... they aren't that heavy... (420g) and the hub wasn't that heavy either ..... so it would be an option (if you didn't want disc brakes all round) to just rebuild the rear wheel on a cassette hub ... a bitt of searching might find one to reuse the spokes...

    My decision to go for discs was due to specific local conditions. If we lived somewhere drier and with different mud ... I'd probably not bother I just got annoyed constantly truing the wheel to avoid rubbing of mud (with the brakes levers adjusted in)....

    The fork is really good.... but be sure to let out most of the air... depending on DD's weight. My less than scientific method was him slamming the front brake on and doing an endo and adjusting until it looked about right..... When I ride the bike (yep now tried) I have to lock the forks! (Rode it down a jump ramp in a bike park last week when he changed his mind at the top - I'd put more pressure in as the previous day we'd been riding rocks on a natural trail)


    HAVE FUN

  38. #138
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    Thanks for all the info! I still have not decided on a plan of attack, but I do know that a rear wheel rebuild is in order. Also I want to dump the heavy looking triple... For her 20" scott contessa I built up a rear wheel with an xt disc hub on a Sun CR18 rim laced 16 of 32 H... For the front I have an old LX crank that I shortened, and I run two single speed rings on it with no front derailleur. I just manually shift by hand if we are riding on road or on trails...

    So the plan is to start by seeing what I can migrate from the Scott, since I have a full set of 9 speed components. My daughter is only 6 (but tall) and is just now starting to look too big for the 20" so I have some time..

    The fork was what really attracted me to this bike. I spent a lot of time last year obtaining and modifying a spinner air fork for the 20" so it was a no brainer when I saw what came stock on the Cannondale.

    Thanks again for all the info!

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by go_ride_your_bike View Post
    Thanks for all the info! I still have not decided on a plan of attack, but I do know that a rear wheel rebuild is in order. Also I want to dump the heavy looking triple... For her 20" scott contessa I built up a rear wheel with an xt disc hub on a Sun CR18 rim laced 16 of 32 H... For the front I have an old LX crank that I shortened, and I run two single speed rings on it with no front derailleur. I just manually shift by hand if we are riding on road or on trails...

    So the plan is to start by seeing what I can migrate from the Scott, since I have a full set of 9 speed components. My daughter is only 6 (but tall) and is just now starting to look too big for the 20" so I have some time..

    The fork was what really attracted me to this bike. I spent a lot of time last year obtaining and modifying a spinner air fork for the 20" so it was a no-brainer when I saw what came stock on the Cannondale.

    Thanks again for all the info!
    The triple weighs nearly 1kg (about 2lbs)
    What I did initially was actually just used the cranks (and saddle/seatpost) from his 20"... whilst I shortened the SRAM .... and fitted a single 30T up front.... (Its only 10 mins to swap them to and fro)

    30/36 (on the 10 speed) was pretty good and I only added the 40T because we were going on a specific trip!
    This also demonstrates the fork! (the 40T was for the opposite direction of course)

    The fork exceeds my expectations! It suffers a little from sticktion with his weight but not overly .... and if you scale things it subjectively seems as good or better than my Fox Factory 100mm XC forks.


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    If you can switch chain-rings on the cranks and are rebuilding the rear wheel I'd probably go M8000 if I did it again! (Strom's pointed this out and I agree)

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