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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikin222 View Post
    I had not seen the adaptor plate from Dan's comp. I just took a quick look and all I see is a 20" option. Is that what you have and/or does it work.
    The distance is relative to the caliper brake mounting hole so it'd work on any size wheel.

    It's heavy and not as elegant a solution as other approaches. It is plenty stiff for a 4 year old, even without attaching it to the frame (it includes the hardware to do so). So it is functional (serves the purpose of improving brake performance) but lacks the bling or wow factor that disk brakes or other v brake mounts might have.


    I think disk brakes are the ideal solution due to the ease of pressure at the lever (corresponding to braking power). The buy in is just so tough to swallow for a bike for a 4 year old!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garasaki View Post
    After searching a lot of options, I finally decided "hey this is a bike for a 4 year old" and went with one of the less expensive options:

    Ebay complete rear wheel with freewheel hub (~40 shipped)
    Freewheel (15 shipped)
    V Brake adaptor plate from Dans Comp (25)
    Can you post a picture of that adapter plate from Dan's Comp installed on your kids bike?

    Here is the link for anyone interested:

    https://www.danscomp.com/products/48...ake_Plate.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Garasaki View Post
    With the disk brake options, the only realy way to get a rear hub that works (short of being a machinist) is a whole wheel through Oset at around 50 or 60 bucks shipped easy, plus a 45 dollar adaptor plate, plus the cost of the actual brake.
    What adapter plate are your talking about here? Like some of the bolt on disc brake mounts?

  3. #28
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    Oh, ok. Thanks for the info! I would love to see a picture if you have the time.

    The main reason I wanted to go for disc is the easy lever squeeze. I have so much old crap lying around it would not be that expensive but the hub thing is killing me. I am not a wheelbuilder or a machinist but wouldn't this work for the rear?

    This flip/flop hub
    Formula BMX Rear Hub Mini Junior Flip Flop Hub 3 8" Axle 28 Hole Black HB26 | eBay

    With this disc adaptor
    E Bike Double Hub Lock Nut Φ48MM Thread Disc Brake Rotor Adaptor Mount Left | eBay

  4. #29
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    Here is a link to the $45 disk brake adaptor

    A2z Components, A2z Disc Brake Adapters, A2z Adapters

    But yeah, getting the rear hub to mount a disk on is complicated.

    Here is my son's bike, with the V brake adaptor from Dan's.





    There is a slot on each side, you can see it here, where you are supposed to attach the adaptor to the frame via hose clamps. My "custom" paint job is delicate, and I didn't think it was really necessary considering the lack of power in a pair of 4 year old hands, so I haven't bothered yet.



    Interesting story - I have 3 kids. This bike was a hand me down from my 7 yo daughter. When I made the hand down, I got a 20" hotrock for my daughter, which comes with v brakes stock. The first words out of her mouth, the first time she rode the 20" bike was "wow I like these brakes A LOT better!"

    I think manaufacturer's of bikes this size are really underestimating how important those brakes are to kids.

  5. #30
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    Impressed with your reply from Oset. I got something along the lines of "We like to only sell our wheels to our real customers"

  6. #31
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    I left the sidepull brake on the rear of my son's bike, and upgraded the front to vbrake. Works a treat as he only really uses the front so has very good control.

  7. #32
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    Thanks for the pics. If I end up with v-brakes that doesn't look to bad.

  8. #33
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    Just ordered a "USDM" Cnoc 14 (as opposed to the UK version with rear v-brake). I've ordered the V-brake adapter from Dans Comp and the Tektro 316AG brake lever - I've got v-brake calipers in the parts bin...

    Having never really dealt with a coaster brake before, I thought I'd be able to simply remove the brake arm and have it effectively freewheel but now, I'm realizing that's probably not the case? Short of buying a new hub, what are my options with regards to disabling the coaster brake?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by slabber View Post
    Having never really dealt with a coaster brake before, I thought I'd be able to simply remove the brake arm and have it effectively freewheel but now, I'm realizing that's probably not the case? Short of buying a new hub, what are my options with regards to disabling the coaster brake?
    You have to remove the brake pads inside of the hub as well and then fill that space with washers or something.

    If you google freecoaster you can get more ideas.

    My shop gave me an old wheel to practice on before I tore into my son's Hotrock. I haven't tried it yet.

  10. #35
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    anyone have any viable options for the hotrock 16 frame rear free hub with disc?
    i'm willing to get the hub, or the entire wheel.
    please help!
    thanks in advance.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
    anyone have any viable options for the hotrock 16 frame rear free hub with disc?
    i'm willing to get the hub, or the entire wheel.
    please help!
    thanks in advance.
    There were some recent posts from somebody who used a wheelset from OsetUSA on their Hotrock 16.

    IIRC, the rear wheel worked out but the front wheel did not. Also, the rim width on the Oset wheel may have been 1.75" instead of 1.5".

    I'll try to find the thread later. Otherwise search Oset in this forum and it should come up.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave88LX View Post
    Is there no market for this, or are we just that "different"? I can't believe there is nothing off-the-shelf for this.
    There is, but only as a whole-bike option...
    Spawn Banshee
    Cleary Hedgehog

    They are a premium, but cheaper than buying a coaster-brake and redoing the rear wheel. I went Spawn (Both the Gremlin and Banshee; 2 girls) and am 100% satisfied. They are FANTASTIC bikes.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
    anyone have any viable options for the hotrock 16 frame rear free hub with disc?
    i'm willing to get the hub, or the entire wheel.
    please help!
    thanks in advance.
    Read through this thread.

    Hotrock 16 Trials Build - Page 2

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikin222 View Post
    I wrote to Oset and here is what they have written back:

    I think that the front wheel will work for you, but not sure about the rear? Does the hotrock bike have gears? The rear hub is 5" across at the bearing lock-nuts and has a six-hole hub for a single sprocket. The rear axle length is 6.5" and could accommodate frame dropouts 5+". You may have to modify the rear, or look for something else...

    5" is 127mm that is not going to cut it on the Hotrock.


    I don't have my bike in front of me. What rear axle width does the Hotrock 16 require?

    I am doing some more looking around at options. If I can buy complete, would prefer that to building one.

    How does this look for $25? Is there any reason we can't use this?

    Alloy 16 Rear Wheel at Dan's Comp

    Replacement 16" alloy rear wheel for most 16" BMX bikes. Features a low flange freewheel hub for 16T and larger freewheel, unsealed bearings, 3/8" chromoly axle, 14G spokes and a 28H Alex Z1000 single-wall rim.

    OE Replacement Parts
    Axle: 3/8" Chromoly
    Hardware: Steel
    Hub Shell Bearings: Unsealed
    Weight: 1 lb 7.6 oz




    Another possible (cheap and low quality?) option?
    Wheel Master 16 x 1.75 Rear Wheel, 28H, Steel, Bolt On, FW, Silver

    Rear wheel, Bolt on
    16 x 1.75
    Silver rim, Steel
    Hub: BMX freewheel




    Alex Z1000 Rear Wheel - 28H Alloy 3/8 FW Nutted 16 x 1.5 Black/Black (Silver out-of-stock)

    Alex Z1000 Rear Wheel - 28H Alloy 3/8 FW Nutted 16 x 1.5 Black/Black
    Rim: Width 25mm Single Wall Pinned Black Hub: 3/8" Axle Black Spokes: 14g 3x UCP 1/2" Brass Replacement axle = 134389


    Spokes: 14G Chrome

  15. #40
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    Dave your in the same dilemma quite a few of us have been in.
    The pedal break suck and you feel is holding things back.

    Your options are actually simple as long as you don't over think things which is the trap we all fall into. I think I spent around 3 months or surfing before actually committing to a build.

    Wheel Options:
    1. Modify the existing hub to remove pedal brake.
    Easy but problematic and you still have the brakes to sort.

    2. Find a hub that fits and get the wheel re-built.
    Not a lot of hubs out there due to the spacing.
    Cost will be high (hub & build)
    Bike is off the road whilst work is done.

    3. Buy something off the shelf.
    OSET is potentially your cheapest route.
    Wheel is lighter than stock.
    They come in chrome or black so you could keep front wheel stock.
    Can be run with disc or rim brakes.
    You can drop a bit more weight by careful selection of tyres and you can also run ghetto tubeless.

    Option 3, is the route a lot seem to have taken including myself as the cost is relatively low and it gives you a choice in relation to brakes which you need to decide on before you commit.

    Brakes - Rim or Disc.
    1. If the frame has a mounting hole then you can fit U brakes as long as it fits over the tyre combination. Only consideration here is getting the correct leverage and reach for little hands.

    2. Get frame post adaptors and go with side pull which will give better leverage.
    You still need an adjustable lever.

    3. Final option is to go the disc route.
    To do this you will need to do a little work but its not that hard and the big advantage is the investment in discs can be moved to next bike.
    You can make the adaptor bracket or buy something like the A2Z ) Others are available.

    As to whether a kid will feel the benefit, thats subjective and depends on where you're riding.
    For me discs didn't add a huge amount of weight and ticked a lot of other boxes in terms of cost/performance and the ability to move the parts on later so it was a no brainer and eBay gave me exactly what I needed.

    That just leaves you the front wheel to figure out, Again the same choices apply but the OSET front disc wheel will not fit the standard fork so you will either have to change the fork (spinner). You could go with Rim brakes on the front or leave them without.

    The modifications ultimately add some benefits but the most important bit is actually getting the kids out riding so don't overlook the fact that your child won't give a monkeys whether the bike cost $25 or 2500. They adapt and learn with what they are given and will push it to the limits.
    Lets face it when we started we didn't have suspension or discs and did just fine.

    Id go as far to say that everyone on here who has gone down this path has done it not because the kid says "my bike is heavy" or "the brakes don't work", but because they want to go the extra mile and give their child that something a little better performance-wise and like tinkering.

    Its expensive but its a great feeling when your on the trail and someone spots your build, or some kid shouts Mom look at that can I have one thats cool. The best "Dad" feeling is when your out riding alongside your kid on a previously impossible trail knowing that its your work that made it possible and they have a massive grin.
    MTB: Stumpy, Enduro, Hotrock, Commencal Supreme
    ROAD: Jamis Zenith, Pinarello Dogma

  16. #41
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    My best moment was when someone asked if my son's bike was a Lil Shredder

  17. #42
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    IME, disc brakes are a waste of time on a 16" bike besides as a tinkering project, or if your kid is doing regular DHing I suppose.
    (FWIW, my did his first few chairlift days on an old Pitboss with coaster brakes and loved it.) They outgrow those little bikes so fast there's really no sense in dumping a bunch of time and dough into them unless the kids are doing some serious ripping. One of those $25 dollar wheels will work fine.

    My favorite times were always seeing my son rip something on his hammered old ~30lb 16" bike with barely functioning u-brakes, lotsa broken spokes, and tires like baloney skins, then watching grown men on fancy $$$ bikes drop a lame excuse and then walk (or walk away from) the same stuff. (It always made me feel a little better to have some company.)

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  18. #43
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    I have been exploring this as well and posted in another thread.

    Agree pitboss probably best option, but the Demo9 hotrock mods are so cool worth investigating.

    Bonz and Echo both make possible disc 110mm hubs...
    Rear 20" disc hub, 116mm or 100mm

    Echo TR Rear Disc

    I think 116 hubs can be made 110 just be removing the spacer, something about snail cams. The Bonz explicitly sayes it comes with spacers for 110 (what we would need) of 116.

    Need 32 hole 16 inch rims which you can only get from Demo9/Lil Shredder to my knowledge ($30).

    This is from another string breaking down the options I wrote:

    V brake option
    -New back wheel 16 inch (Alex Z1000 from Niagra or Danscomp) $25-30
    -V brake adapter (Evolution cycle) $60
    Evolution Bike Company
    -Brakes/Levers ($30);

    Disk Option
    Trials 110mm freewheel hub ($70) or use lathe to cut down MTB 135 hub (Demo9 did this for his custom rides)
    -Custom wheelbuild with 32 hole rim from LilShredders/Demo9 ($100+), or do it yourself (rim from Demo9 $30, plus cost of spokes, cut spokes custom)
    -Disc adapter ($30)
    -Disc brake ($30-$70)
    -Lever ($10)

    If doing all that shame to have steel one piece crank:

    -Bottom bracket ($20)
    -Truvative adapter ($20)
    -Sinz 115 crank ($50)

    If you can get the used parts it is a good deal, but starting from a frame that has a euro BB, freewheel, and V brake bosses gives you a easier substrate to upgrade from unless you have parts or expertise.

    Example:

    Commencal Ramones 16 2015

    Euro BB with 114mm cranks, V brake bosses, and parts compatible with most MTB (25.4 bars, 1 1/8 headset)

    Heavy to start at 18 lbs, but could get it down. Pitboss aweome. The hotrock builds are super cool, but not necessarily economical. Finn Finestones hotrock (Chez Demo9) is still the coolest I have seen.

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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    IME, disc brakes are a waste of time on a 16" bike besides as a tinkering project, or if your kid is doing regular DHing I suppose.
    (FWIW, my did his first few chairlift days on an old Pitboss with coaster brakes and loved it.) They outgrow those little bikes so fast there's really no sense in dumping a bunch of time and dough into them unless the kids are doing some serious ripping. One of those $25 dollar wheels will work fine.

    My favorite times were always seeing my son rip something on his hammered old ~30lb 16" bike with barely functioning u-brakes, lotsa broken spokes, and tires like baloney skins, then watching grown men on fancy $$$ bikes drop a lame excuse and then walk (or walk away from) the same stuff. (It always made me feel a little better to have some company.)

    Makes sense. It just ends up being almost as much to put on V brakes ($60 adapter from evolution) as it does to build a wheel from the hub and you can reuse the disks/use an old set etc. If someone made a cheaper V brake adapter I would go that way, but looking at $70 just for adapter with shipping.

  20. #45
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    griffter18,
    They definitely suck IMO. Especially now she's trying to do these tricks. Foot off the pedal = no brakes.

    "Don't overthink things" -- you mean I should throw away all these Excel spreadsheets I've been making? LOL

    Option 1 I don't like.
    Option 2 is doable but I don't love it.
    Option 3 I like. I e-mailed BikeWorldUSA through Amazon and got a phone number to call, they have 10 silver ones in stock. I'm 99% sure this is the way I'm going to go. What's one cost throug OSET? Rim brakes are fine for what they are doing.

    Brakes are taken care of -- I have the Evolution Bike Co frame post adapters, and the Tektro mini lever/v-brake kit. Not interested in disc due to the type of riding they are doing.

    Probably leave the front alone since I won't be changing anything on that.

    Great point on kids not caring. They'll get on whatever! It's part for them, but absolutely part for me! Definitely a tinkerer and can't leave anything alone. Sure, we spend more money than we need to -- but it's fun. Gives us something to do. Get them involved and they learn things too.

    I help the other kids in the neighborhood whenever I can. Most of the parents aren't even keeping the tires inflated! But I do get enjoyment of watching my kids ride circles around them.



    EDIT: Went with Option 3.
    Amazon.com : ACTION WHEEL ALLOY 16 REAR BOLT-ON ALEX MX22 SILVER : Bike Wheels : Sports & Outdoors

    Through this company: | BikeWorldUSA | Bicycle Parts and Bike Accessories by calling them at 518-831-1751.

    They matched Dan's Comp price of $25 + $7.94 Amazon-listed shipping.
    Last edited by Dave88LX; 10-31-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  21. #46
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    So I put the new 34T chainring on the Redline last night, so that is now 34/16 (2.13:1). I think what I am going to do is take the 28T off the Hotrock16, and put the 38T on there with an 18T freewheel, making that a 2.11:1. At that point they will be evenly matched, and gives me some wiggle room up or down. Before the swap, they were at 2.38:1 (Redline) and 1.55:1 (Hotrock). Hotrock was smoking the Redline up the hills, but the Redline was blowing away the Hotrock on flat ground.

    Unless anyone wants to talk me out of 38/18 and go another route.

    Now I get to research freewheels! Not trying to get crazy with a White Industries. ACS Crossfire Pro ($45) is out also. GT Ratchet ($32) may be too high as well.

    Pretty much leaves ACS Crossfire ($20) or Excess Pro ($22). I bet they all do the same damn thing. Both these are 3-pawl/12/30 points. Excess is 168g, Crossfire is 186g, over half an ounce! Clearly the better choice!!! (sarcasm)

  22. #47
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    Regarding 32 hole trials hubs, there are a few 32 hole 16 inch rimes (easiest to talk to Demo9/Lil Shredder)...

    But Velocity also makes them/made them... Velocity aeroheat... I think Demo9/Lil Shredder Cheaper though and probably better...

    Velocity Aeroheat 16'' (349 iso) - Longleaf Bicycles


    And initially I dismissed the OSET rear wheel as a heavy wheel, but it is 770g (per Trials bike 16 inch MTBR post) and there is a place in the USA that sells them...

    https://kingcobraofflorida.com/osetb...ategory=Wheels

    $45...

    Custom build with trials hub clearly the nicest, but that OSET hub looks proven...

  23. #48
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    I got the wheel. Quality-wise, I guess it's what you'd expect from a $25 complete wheel. Bearings are tight and gritty. Hoping I can maybe loosen it up a little so it actually spins halfway decent. I need to buy a narrow wrench first. At least the parts are starting to roll in!

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave88LX View Post
    I got the wheel. Quality-wise, I guess it's what you'd expect from a $25 complete wheel. Bearings are tight and gritty. Hoping I can maybe loosen it up a little so it actually spins halfway decent. I need to buy a narrow wrench first. At least the parts are starting to roll in!
    I received a pair (front/rear) from Danscomp. Both rolled well after loosening up the cones, although I may repack the bearings as doesn't sound like alot of grease in there. Just put them on a old hotrock frame to make a "balance bike" to play on from old bike, didn't try freewheel on it etc.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakemonster View Post
    Regarding 32 hole trials hubs, there are a few 32 hole 16 inch rimes (easiest to talk to Demo9/Lil Shredder)...

    But Velocity also makes them/made them... Velocity aeroheat... I think Demo9/Lil Shredder Cheaper though and probably better...

    Velocity Aeroheat 16'' (349 iso) - Longleaf Bicycles


    And initially I dismissed the OSET rear wheel as a heavy wheel, but it is 770g (per Trials bike 16 inch MTBR post) and there is a place in the USA that sells them...

    https://kingcobraofflorida.com/osetb...ategory=Wheels

    $45...

    Custom build with trials hub clearly the nicest, but that OSET hub looks proven...
    Now OSET is only selling the rear wheel with tire and tube which are really heavy (7lbs total despite 770 g wheel) for ~ $85, won't sell wheel alone in US. With shipping ~ $105 which pushes me toward building one if going disc.

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