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29 is finally Evil

569K views 5K replies 321 participants last post by  tp311 
#1 ·
First photo of The Following in the wilderness.

Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel Tire Bicycle wheel rim Bicycle tire
 
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#293 ·
I'm going to go against the grain a bit, I really don't like VPP/DW/KS Link etc mini links for technical climbing.

I think the antisquat isolates the terrain far too much and rather than tracking and grabbing the ground tries to lever and torque itself over at the leading edge of the tire. The FSR and modified single pivots actively compress the tire into the entire contact surface, which will allow the torque to transfer across the tire contact patch vs the leading edge.

For non-technical climbing the mini link designs are great because they transfer maximum power to the wheel vs. suspension. They're more efficient, but then so is a hardtail...

YMMV but for the riding I do in New England I'm extremely partial to an active suspension. That an on the way down its just so much more plush! Which is why so many current and ex-knolly riders (like Dude! and other) have gone to the uprising and been happy (If I may presume)...
 
#296 ·
I think the antisquat isolates the terrain far too much and rather than tracking and grabbing the ground tries to lever and torque itself over at the leading edge of the tire. The FSR and modified single pivots actively compress the tire into the entire contact surface, which will allow the torque to transfer across the tire contact patch vs the leading edge.
what

YMMV but for the riding I do in New England I'm extremely partial to an active suspension. That an on the way down its just so much more plush! Which is why so many current and ex-knolly riders (like Dude! and other) have gone to the uprising and been happy (If I may presume)...
Uh, the uprising has over 100% antisquat (somewhere around 140%?), while the knolly has around 40%, and it decreases through the shock stroke (something like 15% at sag). I'm not totally certain what you mean by "active", but the uprising, dw link bikes, and many other "efficient" bikes utilize chain torque to achieve lack of unwanted suspension movement, while early FSR and current knolly bikes do not and will bob excessively under rider movement.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a conversation about suspension dynamics, just describe what the evil does, and why those traits are good and should be exciting to us as riders...or offer alternatives to bikes already on the market that don't work well.
 
#294 ·
Agree with Friar on this one. I'm not a suspension or kinematics engineer, but I've owned a bunch of bikes and my home trails in Phoenix are among the most technical you'll find.

I STRONGLY prefer FSR/Horst bikes for technical climbing. Bonus is they're super-plush on the descents. Downside, if you ride in milder terrain, I imagine you'd have a vastly different opinion.
 
#625 · (Edited)
I was talking with a friend about The Following yesterday. He had a hand in the design of the earlier Evil bikes. I'm quoting what he said, and it's giving me some pause with respect to the bike. I know the Following isn't prehistoric like the early Maverick, but I have to wonder if it isn't going in the wrong direction as compared to multipivot suspension designs that also maintain chain length. For all I know, the Following pivot is place such that antisquat characteristics are good right where they need to be, and with acceptable pedal kickback, and that the dual pivot bikes are kind of overkill since we primarily climb in a narrow range of gears. I don't have a question here as much as reassurance that this design is really the right path forward. Rider reviews are definitely reassuring, but like my friend also said, his favorite bike got horrible reviews.

"yes.. the bike got good reviews.. Single pivots cannot have good anti squat they are fixed in that way.. They can have OK anti squat combined with marginal chain growth. only multi pivot bikes can vary chainstay length and change the rate of chainstay movement.."


edit- OK, maybe it was unclear. That quote was from the discussion I had with said friend.
 
#686 ·
So my ride today was the first mountain bike ride I've done in about 5 weeks due to selling my Ripley, plus I was sick last week so lets just say I wasn't in top physical shape today.

That being said, I cleared numerous climbs today that I haven't cleared before. The traction is UNBELIEVABLE. I couldn't get the rear tire to break loose no matter what combo of clumsiness I tried. I'm talking glued to the ground, velcro traction. Seated, standing, mashing too tall a gear...nothing but traction. I was thinking that I would give up something going from the DHR2(my all time fav for grip) rear tire to the Ikon, but I was pleasantly surprised. It really didn't make a difference what body position I had, the front wheel stayed down and the rear tire just dug in.

The short chainstays are legit. I had flashbacks to my Lenz Punkass in terms of tech climbing. It really does make a huge difference having the wheel tucked right underneath you. Also, the front end comes up so nicely when needed to clear trail obstacles. For example there is this one switchback that goes right into a rooty step-up ledge about 10-12 inches high that I could never seem to clean before. Today I cleaned it the first try without even having to think about it. Super pleased and impressed on the climbing ability. If you have the legs(which I didn't have much of today) you can motor up anything.

There is NO perceived energy loss either, it all seems to propel you forward in a very efficient manner. This bike is as good, if not better, than the Ibis Ripley in this regard. If you like DW link bikes, you're in luck. The Delta system rides high in its travel and doesn't noticeably squat under power at all. I'll say that the Evil seems to better the Ripley in that the traction is better and the frame is noticeably stiffer so it holds it line much easier in the rough stuff both up and down.

From the first few yards of trail I thought that my new Thomson dropper was sagging because the bumps just seemed to disappear in a comfy couch type of way. I actually stopped to check the post to make sure, but its just supple off the top. It reminds me a lot of a coil shock in terms of small bump compliance.

I rode the rear brake purposefully through some choppy terrain/rock gardens to see if I could feel the suspension firming up and I honestly can't say that I noticed. The same goes for pedaling through the same terrain checking for pedal kickback, nope. I'm sure it's there, but if so it is certainly no worse than any other bike I've ridden. I've never ridden a FSR/Horst link bike, so I can't comment on the comparison of those vs. the Following.

Cornering: Well lets just say that if Ibis designed the Ripley to ride like a 26er, the Following rides like a BMXer. Take a corner as fast as you'd dare, very agile. In terms of switchbacks, effortless. Which is huge around here because a lot of our trails feature tons of them. I even found myself whipping the rear of the bike through turns/tree gates, it just seems to intuitively go where you want it.

Descending: Of course it does this well and I'm nowhere near talented or brave enough to push this bike anywhere near it's limits. It yields nothing to the Lenz Lunchbox, Banshee Prime, etc. The suspension really does feel bottomless. If you didn't know better you'd think it had 150mm of rear travel, except when you mash on the gas and it takes off like an XC rocket.

Jumping: Yeah it does table tops and 3-4 foot drops without flinching. Much more capable than I am. I tried to bottom the suspension out and never did, especially never felt like I was. Bottomless.

I'll also add the it feels super agile and light on its feet. It reminds me of a 20 lb carbon hardtail in this regard. It isn't heavy, but what weight it does have it hides it extremely well. It feels much lighter than any bike I've had before and I've had a few that weighed about 2 lbs less on the scale. What that adds to is the feeling/ability that you can just put the bike anywhere you want to. Awesome feeling.

Cons: It doesn't photograph very well in the woods ;) But here are some pics anyway. I tried to capture the rear tire clearance the best I could, but the intricate molding of the seat and chain stays makes getting a clear shot difficult. Keep in mind that's a 62mm(2.44 inch) wide tire stuffed in there. There's still room for mud as well. I also included the non drive side pic just to prove that it has one:) Bicycle Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Tire Wheel Crankset
Bicycle Wheel Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Bicycle wheel
Bicycle Wheel Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Land vehicle
Bicycle frame Crankset Bicycle tire Automotive tire Bicycle
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Hood Motor vehicle
Tire Bicycle tire Automotive tire Bicycle Motor vehicle
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Automotive lighting Tread
Automotive lighting Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Tread
 
#1,861 ·
Without having ridden either one, I know the answer to your question: NO, it's not worth two extra grands. Especially considering you really liked the other of the two bikes. Go with your own perceptions, if you ride a bike and it feels good, go for it, no matter what people tell you on forums and magazines. You will never find the end of the rainbow.
 
#2,037 ·
For me, there is a point where chainstays are short enough. I slammed the sliders on my Nimble 9 forwards (413mm according to the chart), it was too squirrely for me. I pushed them out to roughly where my Yelli was (424mm), that was my sweetspot. 430mm on the Following etc will do.

This experience is partly why I haven't switched to a Riot.
 
#2,176 ·
Come on guys! So everyone reads about the Following on the Bike Bible tests and the thing blows up seriously! Now everyone wants a Following and it's a 29r to boot. Now everyone that orders one this year wants theirs now, go figure. Evil is a boutique manufacturer with limited resources not much different than Intense or Pivot or Salsa or Canfield or....others that just have more business history and successes but they still have the same general struggles. If you weren't on the front end of this curve with the Following then you need to be patient, if you sold your only bike to buy this bike this spring, that was not a smart move. Remember man does not live by one bike alone! If you wanted a bike immediately after you placed the order then you should have bought a bike from one of the bigger players like Trek or Specialized. Otherwise try to be smart and a little more patient with Evil. I like what i see coming from them and how they get it done so kudos to Evil for making a bike that a bunch of riders want!! Keep it positive and please show us the builds of these Followings that all of you are putting together.

Sorry for the rant!
 
#2,484 ·
I posted this before but it's buried in a million posts since. I found this bike comparator software extremely useful for mapping across position between old and new bikes. Handy for anyone who is still really undecided.

It gives a really good graphical and numerical comparison of all key numbers, for example this shows the difference in handlebar position between my old 19" Remedy with 60mm stem (red) and the XL Evil with 45mm stem (green). The difference equates to 14.1mm further forward bar position on the Evil, which in my case was spot on as the Trek was always a little on the short side.
Green Colorfulness Yellow Slope Pattern
 
#2,547 ·
Well, I guess its my turn to say something about The Following. I took the day off just to build it up so here goes.

My initial impressions are: Aesthetically, this is a gorgeous bike. And wow, this thing passes all the stiffness checks with flying colors.

Fit - Does not fit like any 29er I've ridden or owned. And someone may chirp up and say so but, this thing does not "feel" like the typical 29er we were all use to ridding over the past couple of years. Its slack and the fit is very comfortable (not saying 29ers aren't typically comfortable) And the low stack height makes for an aggressive attack type feel. Gonna be fast... I'm really digging this new geo trend.

I'm 5'9.75" - lets call it 5'10 with about a 32" inseam and I went with a Medium. Do I think I could have gone with a Large? Sure... but I think it would take from the playfulness of the bike. Which is more my style. Rather than the more stretched out feel. Just a personal preference. Not a necessity of "fit".

I know this has been beat to death and I know there are some really frustrated people on here but there are soooo many opinions on what feels good and what others are choosing. My point is, I could have gone with either a size M or a Large and would have ended up just fine. Most of us know what we like but for those who don't - I wouldn't fret too much over the sizing. Make the best choice you can, and then you can tweak the stack, stem length and bar width later. (BTW, I'm running a 50mm stem/785 bar).

Anyhow - maiden voyage will be in GrandJunction, CO this weekend so I'll report back on my experience. If I come back alive that is.... Got a feeling I'm going to be tempted to make some bad choices. See ya
 
#2,553 ·
Well, I guess its my turn to say something about The Following. I took the day off just to build it up so here goes.

My initial impressions are: Aesthetically, this is a gorgeous bike. And wow, this thing passes all the stiffness checks with flying colors.

Fit - Does not fit like any 29er I've ridden or owned. And someone may chirp up and say so but, this thing does not "feel" like the typical 29er we were all use to ridding over the past couple of years. Its slack and the fit is very comfortable (not saying 29ers aren't typically comfortable) And the low stack height makes for an aggressive attack type feel. Gonna be fast... I'm really digging this new geo trend.

I'm 5'9.75" - lets call it 5'10 with about a 32" inseam and I went with a Medium. Do I think I could have gone with a Large? Sure... but I think it would take from the playfulness of the bike. Which is more my style. Rather than the more stretched out feel. Just a personal preference. Not a necessity of "fit".

I know this has been beat to death and I know there are some really frustrated people on here but there are soooo many opinions on what feels good and what others are choosing. My point is, I could have gone with either a size M or a Large and would have ended up just fine. Most of us know what we like but for those who don't - I wouldn't fret too much over the sizing. Make the best choice you can, and then you can tweak the stack, stem length and bar width later. (BTW, I'm running a 50mm stem/785 bar).

Anyhow - maiden voyage will be in GrandJunction, CO this weekend so I'll report back on my experience. If I come back alive that is.... Got a feeling I'm going to be tempted to make some bad choices. See ya
Good points made on sizing and fit!

I'm 5'-7" with a 30" inseam and have a small frame which I'm building with a 50mm BZA stem and bars which I'll trim some. In comparing the Following to my small Intense Spider 29 AL (slacked out build) and Spider Comp (new & unbuilt) the Following is longer FC and shorter RC and will be a bit slacker than my Spider 29 at 68* with 130 Pike. Overall though from my measurements and calculation the Following looks like it may buildup shorter in wheelbase than either of my Spiders which should add to the fun factor as long as I can get the poppy characteristics I like out of the suspension.

Have fun on your new Following and don't go too hard on those Lunch Loop trails! There are definitely some that can bite back if not given due respect!
 
#2,667 ·
View attachment 991547 View attachment 991548

Ghetto's new frame... :thumbsup:

Sadly neither my own nor z1ppy's orange frames have yet arrived in the country! :cryin:

In 20+ years of cycling, I've never had to wait this long for a bike... The anticipation is killing me! Having one here (albeit the wrong size and colour) is temptation enough...
Lets hope that's not all the UK orange frames. Mine is supposedly on its way from Silverfish--->LBS but it hasn't turned up yet...
 
#2,788 ·
Looking very good! Just needs some black pedals IMO.

To be fair, when mine arrives, it will look damn near identical. Save for the MRP Stage fork (will also be running at 140mm, looks like the bike can take it well), and SRAM Guide brakes I'll be fitting, almost everything else will be the same!

What width are those rims? Are they the 30mm external (24mm internal) version?
 
#3,012 ·
I switched over from an S-Works E29. I race quite a few enduros and really love the E29. My only complaint was with out of saddle sprints and climbs. I felt like on paper the Following would be better out of the saddle. And it is. The Following is also stiffer. But being completely honest, I don't think the Following is that much better than the Enduro if at all. I don't think it climbs much better while seated. I was a little surprised by that, but I think it has to do with the slack seat tube. When things get really nasty on the downhill, the Enduro obviously wins out. The Following feels about as good as you could hope for out of a 120mm rear end, but it just can't compete with the 155mm of FSR suspension on the Enduro.

I know everyone else on here is singing the Following's praises and acts like no other bike out there could possibly compare. If you read about what bikes a lot of these guys are coming from it makes sense. If you're coming from an E29, I don't think it's going to be as glorious as you might have hoped for.
 
#3,016 ·
When things get really nasty on the downhill, the Enduro obviously wins out. The Following feels about as good as you could hope for out of a 120mm rear end, but it just can't compete with the 155mm of FSR suspension on the Enduro.QUOTE]

Interesting!? Now I cannot compare the Following or the Uprising to a E29, but I can compare both to a S-Works Enduro 26". I had that bike for a good 6 months and I took one ride on the Uprising on DH track and sold my S-Works that day and had Kevin ship my Uprising. There was no comparison between the 2 on the DH. The enduro was wayyy harsher and I had a CCDB Air on it and I like my suspension soft. I would go as far to say that I wouldn't ride either the Following or the Enduro all day shuttling, but I would take the Following over the Enduro any day if I had to.
 
#3,026 ·
My buddy has a Following with a Fox 36 140 and I have a Nomad 27.5. The Nomad is much much more capable on techy and rough DH, but it doesn't climb as well as the Evil nor does it pedal well out of the saddle if it's setup right to handle the hack. The Nomad isn't poppy but it makes chunder disappear like no other. But the chunder and hack are a small part of what we ride and the Evil can make it down fine if you pick your lines right and use more body English. The evil turns just as well as the Nomad but it will gap the Nomad between corners when it comes time to pedal. If I had to pick one bike, it would be the Evil. Hands down.
 
#3,027 ·
Thanks for that. I agree that if I were going to have one bike, I'd go with the Following. But since I'm considering keeping the TRc and getting a Nomad, based on what you're saying, it seems like I can cover a broader range of riding with these two bikes rather than just getting the Following. Of course, I'm sure the Following will be more than enough bike for me, but I think the Nomad (or something similar) will help me push my limits a bit more.

I like jazzanova's idea of getting the Following and the Nomad, but that's definitely not in my budget!
 
#3,282 ·
Anyone know what rebuild kit to use for the rear shock? I want to crack mine open and see how many bands are in there so I figured I might as well rebuild it when I'm in there.
Mine had no bands fitted, and doubt the shock has a stupidly low service interval like fox, so doubtful your actually needs servicing yet.. you do know you don't need to disassmble the whole shock to fit the bottomless o-rings. They are hidden under an outer sleeve that is only held on by a o-ring, let out the air & pop that off and the sleeve will slide off.
 
#3,425 ·
It's funny, I only check in here about once a month for juicy photos of the orange Following, and each time there's Guyome30, still wringing his hands over what size to get.

Guyome: If you value XC/Trail comfort and some improved descending stability get the XL. If you like to jump and play on a trail, get the Large. Done.
 
#3,589 ·
Seems like the color orange is the most popular or at least for the picture porn. Orange with blacked out components except for the Fox forks. Little discussion though on how the setups and components perform. Here is my build and a few comments.

Frame: small orange, hi setting
Fork: Pike 130mm
Stem: Syntace 30mm
Bars: MCFK 12*back carbon
Grips: ESI Racers Edge
Brakes: XT 785 with 180/160 ice tech rotors
Crank : Next SL 170mm, 1x
Chain ring: Absolute Black, 32T
Cassette: XX1
Chain: XX1
Shifter : XX1 trigger
Derailleur: XX1
Wheels: Roval Fatties
Rear Hub: Oynx
Pedals: Crank Bros Egg Beaters 11 Ti
Tires: Front Nobby Nic 2.35, Rear Racing Ralph 2.25
Seat post: carbon SMUD
Seat: carbon SMUD

Bike performs flawlessly. Weight is spot on 25lbs. I can't seem to find any way to lower the weight except for wheels (don't want to give up wide) and brakes which would be marginal. Would love to get to 24 but not by sacrificing anything. SMUD stuff is stellar value. Seat is more comfortable than my carbon Phenom. Onyx hub unbelievable. MCFK cool and great, but $$$. Otherwise bike looks the same as other orange/black combos.
 
#3,590 ·
Seems like the color orange is the most popular or at least for the picture porn. Orange with blacked out components except for the Fox forks. Little discussion though on how the setups and components perform. Here is my build and a few comments.

Frame: small orange, hi setting
Fork: Pike 130mm
Stem: Syntace 30mm
Bars: MCFK 12*back carbon
Grips: ESI Racers Edge
Brakes: XT 785 with 180/160 ice tech rotors
Crank : Next SL 170mm, 1x
Chain ring: Absolute Black, 32T
Cassette: XX1
Chain: XX1
Shifter : XX1 trigger
Derailleur: XX1
Wheels: Roval Fatties
Rear Hub: Oynx
Pedals: Crank Bros Egg Beaters 11 Ti
Tires: Front Nobby Nic 2.35, Rear Racing Ralph 2.25
Seat post: carbon SMUD
Seat: carbon SMUD

Bike performs flawlessly. Weight is spot on 25lbs. I can't seem to find any way to lower the weight except for wheels (don't want to give up wide) and brakes which would be marginal. Would love to get to 24 but not by sacrificing anything. SMUD stuff is stellar value. Seat is more comfortable than my carbon Phenom. Onyx hub unbelievable. MCFK cool and great, but $$$. Otherwise bike looks the same as other orange/black combos.
That's pretty ridiculously light, my size L is 27.7lbs and aside from the dropper post most of my components don't differ too much from yours in weight. Orange wasn't my first choice in color but it was all that was available and it seemed a little more interesting than the typical murdered out black bike.
 
#3,703 ·
I covered most of my bikes. If you need to take it off I think you're can use a heat gun or hair dryer and it should not take the paint with it. It's worked for me with other carbon bikes but I haven't done it with a following. You can barley notice it. I went with the matte invisiframe FOLLOWING - EVIL | INVISIFRAME

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1 on the matte invisiframe kit.
 
#3,917 ·
With 29ers as you know you can push the front wheel very hard but you have to commit and be on top of the bike but if its gonna to break loose it's gonna be up front. When you have the same size and or equally aggressive similar size ties out back you can overwhelm the front tires traction.
Yep same size and less aggressive also works out back. Like the Schwalbe MM AND RR combo.
I also did something similar on my last 26ers. 2.35 Nevegal up front and 2.35 high roller out back.
29ers are way more pronounced with this issue because of the increased grip overall!
 
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