XX1 for endurance racing?

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  • 02-23-2013
    pulser
    XX1 for endurance racing?
    I only have one mountain bike at the moment and I race mostly shorter XC races. But I plan on doing more endurance races this year. I am setting it up with an xx1 crank and running 1x10 with the normal 11x36 cassette. Am I crazy wanting to give up the 2x10?
  • 02-24-2013
    FerrouSS
    I am doing the same thing. And I am doing 50-100 milers and stage races. I plan on running a 30 or 32 front ring depending on the event.
  • 02-24-2013
    Benajah
    This thought has crossed my mind as well....mechanical simplicity, shifting simplicity and all, but I've not got to the point of actually doing it.
  • 02-25-2013
    Asbury
    I prefer to keep the wider gear range of a 2x10. Although I used to say the same thing about triple cranks vs. double cranks. . .
  • 02-26-2013
    Andrea138
    I'm all 2x10 until they make a perfect cassette: brickhouseracing Ľ Thing that needs to exist #327
  • 02-26-2013
    Silentfoe
    I think by entertaining this idea, you enter into the realm of having to identify where you want/are going to race.

    In Utah we have steep climbs from just about every trailhead and many of our rides will gain well over 10,000ft of vertical in the course of the day.

    I say this because with a 3x system you have all of your options when you get tired. I've found with 2x I can ride almost all of it unless I'm really tired towards the end of the day. With a 1x11 it's even worse and you want to go 1x10 with a 36? I'd be walking the whole back half of the day.

    Yes, I understand this is me and with more training I may be able to survive that gear range but why limit yourself. Especially with endurance racing. Many of us want carbon, FS and 29er to help alleviate the bashing we take over a 100 mile race and then we go and limit our gears? Not for me.
  • 02-26-2013
    fueledbymetal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FerrouSS View Post
    I am doing the same thing. And I am doing 50-100 milers and stage races. I plan on running a 30 or 32 front ring depending on the event.

    Ditto that, building up a 1x10 FS with a 32T XX1 crank & XX 11x36 cassette for the same. BUT, I've been riding & race only SS, so any gearing is an improvement for me ;) My main driver for the new rig is to have more fun on the rocky courses. I'll keep racing and training on the rigid SS on all but the toughest trails.
  • 02-26-2013
    FerrouSS
    I was a ss'r for years as well. Any gears easier than a 32x20 is a blessing. A 30x36 is so much easier so I don't see it as a problem.
  • 02-26-2013
    pulser
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I think by entertaining this idea, you enter into the realm of having to identify where you want/are going to race.

    In Utah we have steep climbs from just about every trailhead and many of our rides will gain well over 10,000ft of vertical in the course of the day.

    I say this because with a 3x system you have all of your options when you get tired. I've found with 2x I can ride almost all of it unless I'm really tired towards the end of the day. With a 1x11 it's even worse and you want to go 1x10 with a 36? I'd be walking the whole back half of the day.

    Yes, I understand this is me and with more training I may be able to survive that gear range but why limit yourself. Especially with endurance racing. Many of us want carbon, FS and 29er to help alleviate the bashing we take over a 100 mile race and then we go and limit our gears? Not for me.

    I am on the Colorado front range. Most of my racing is down here or up in the high country. I do most of my climbing in the big ring on my 2x10 system now. So I think having a 30 or 32 with a 36 in the rear would be no real problem. If the race was going to have lots of climbing there is always the 28 ring for the front. I may not be the fastest in the first half of the race but I would be better in the second half. It all comes down the training. Once you get use to the gearing I don't think it would be bad.
  • 03-03-2013
    trhoppe
    I'm in for XX1 this year. Front shifting is what is wrong with America.

    32T front, 10-42 rear. The only thing I lose is the 39-11 combo and I barely ever use that. I'll just go higher cadence in the 32-10.

    Now to just wait for the thing to get in stock/shipped at my bike shop :)

    -Tom
  • 03-03-2013
    trhoppe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    I only have one mountain bike at the moment and I race mostly shorter XC races. But I plan on doing more endurance races this year. I am setting it up with an xx1 crank and running 1x10 with the normal 11x36 cassette. Am I crazy wanting to give up the 2x10?

    With the XX1 system, you only lose 1 top and 1 bottom gear from a 2x10 setup. That right there is something that most everyone in the world is ok with. If you are in 26-36 you might as well be walking, and you barely spend any time in 39-11, unless you are superman.

    With XX1 you can also pick your front ring for your race. Got a race somewhere super damn steep? Hell, throw a 30 on there and spin up all the climbs. Will you be riding in Florida? Go 36 on the front and have at it. You don't have to break the chain or pull the crank to swap a front ring. Only 4 bolts and done.
  • 03-03-2013
    pulser
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by trhoppe View Post
    With the XX1 system, you only lose 1 top and 1 bottom gear from a 2x10 setup. That right there is something that most everyone in the world is ok with. If you are in 26-36 you might as well be walking, and you barely spend any time in 39-11, unless you are superman.

    With XX1 you can also pick your front ring for your race. Got a race somewhere super damn steep? Hell, throw a 30 on there and spin up all the climbs. Will you be riding in Florida? Go 36 on the front and have at it. You don't have to break the chain or pull the crank to swap a front ring. Only 4 bolts and done.

    I know thats what I am thinking. I do ride up in the high mountains from time to time. But there is the 28 for that too.
  • 03-03-2013
    kosmo
    On the three 100 courses I typically race, both the lower and higher gears would be sorely missed.

    It's soooooooo tempting to simplify to the 1 x 11, but there would be a cost in competitiveness.
  • 03-17-2013
    justonegear
    My impression.....

    If your making the choice at build, having just completed a XX1 build and racing it 50 miles this passed weekend on what many say is a bike beater of a course. I can honestly say I wouldn't even consider another groupo. Without question it exceeded every expectation I had. Perfection!

    Happy Trails
  • 04-10-2013
    Oparlis
    I'd also like to go XX1. Does anyone know if the Mavic XX1 freewheel body will work on Crossrides? I really don't want to shell out for another set of wheels.
  • 04-10-2013
    rydbyk
    I guess it depends on the amount of climbing and how fit you are really.. The front chainring is easily swapped out for another when you want. Gear low to be safe. That way you will give your legs a chance to recover a bit here and there during the race. Maybe run a 28t (if you can find one for sale that is...??) and see how it goes.
  • 04-10-2013
    mtbne1
    I thought about going XX1 when recently re-gearing my Spec Epic. I chose to continue with the 2x10 and opted for a Rotar 2x10 crank leaving the remainder of the gearing XX. I do a lot of solo 24's, this is my primary 24 bike and I like gearing options that allow me to spin the hills as a race progresses. I could not replicate what I needed with XX1.

    I have a 1x10 on a Spec Stumpy hardtail I use for races 8hrs or less and really like it. If I were to change that one out I'd definitely go XX1 eventhough I would have to rebuild the rear hub, etc. The XX1 certainly intrigues me.

    My point in discussing the two bikes is along the train of throught of determining what events you will use the bike for and the the options different gearing systems provide. Good luck out there....:thumbsup:
  • 04-10-2013
    Scott In MD
    XX1 for endurance racing?
    Racing in Florida? Sure.
  • 04-11-2013
    VaNNage
    I ride a 1x9, 33 front and 34 back. I ride lots of steep climbs and it only forces you to ride harder and get stronger. There are no drawbacks to a 1x9 or 1x10 setup. I say if you need something taller than 33x34 then you should be walking it.
  • 04-17-2013
    Scott In MD
    XX1 for endurance racing?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by VaNNage View Post
    I ride a 1x9, 33 front and 34 back. I ride lots of steep climbs and it only forces you to ride harder and get stronger. There are no drawbacks to a 1x9 or 1x10 setup. I say if you need something taller than 33x34 then you should be walking it.

    No drawbacks? C'mon. I just checked Strava and my last rides were 1900, 2300, 800, 2800, and 3400 feet of climbing over 10 to 30 miles. I would have not been faster walking the climbs compared to 38x24 tooth front chain rings ... I don't got the game to go 33x34 on these rides in Arizona. I don't think you do either, but then again, maybe so. You know what they say: It's the Indian, not the arrow.
  • 04-18-2013
    amd
    in florida, hahaha


    i just raced xx1 at dragon's back this weekend. 7300' in 37 miles. xx1 was fine. ive got a 32 on the front and was able to flly on the flat run-in, and slowly plod up the climbs in the 42.

    no issues. perfect group. theres a reason long course guys like jeremiah bishop use it.
  • 04-18-2013
    Scott In MD
    XX1 for endurance racing?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by amd View Post
    7300' in 37 miles. xx1 was fine. ive got a 32 on the front.

    R e s p e c t
  • 04-18-2013
    amd
    na dude, i obviously don't know you, but i'd bet almost any guy who ride a mtb regularly wouldve been good on that gearing. take the xx1 plunge. you won't look back.
  • 04-25-2013
    jimification
    XX1 looks really good but do you guys not balk at the cost of replacing that cassette every year? Over here in the UK they are £300 ($450) each.
  • 04-25-2013
    amd
    according to sram, the cassette lasts 4x as long bc of a specific type of hardening coating theyre using now on all of their new cassettes.

    now whether you believe that or not, well, thats a different story.
  • 04-25-2013
    trhoppe
    You don't have to replace that cassette every year. Replace the chain as it gets close to 0.7 wear and you can do 2-3 chains through the cassette. The chains are $50.

    Also the front ring will last forever since you aren't shifting.

    My "expectation" is that the ring/cassette will last through 2 race seasons (this one and next) and in that time I'll go through 3 chains at $50 a piece. At the end of the 2nd season, I'll do a new cassette/ring.

    Either way, X9(1) should be out by the end of 2013, so even if I wear out this $450 cassette in 1 season, I'll be able to buy an X9 level cassette for $250 this winter :)

    -Tom
  • 04-25-2013
    amd
    and you can already get xx1 cassettes new on ebay for 350. not great, but better than 450.
  • 04-26-2013
    irishpitbull
    My average training ride is 5000ft over 30 miles. On 1x10 with a 34 front. No way I would ever go back to 2x10. The thing with with endurance racing you have know when walking is better than spinning. Energy conversation and stretching the legs can sometimes be better than spinning 100-110 RPMS up a steep climb.

    If they made XX1 spider that would fit my XO carbon cranks, I would be all over it.
  • 04-29-2013
    Fastskiguy
    There is no way to use that 10-42 cassette on shimano wheels, is there?
  • 04-29-2013
    irishpitbull
    Are the hubs shimano? If so, shimano does not have hub body as of yet for the XX1 stuff.
  • 04-29-2013
    Fastskiguy
    Yeah, I meant XTR hubs. I mean....it's not super bling or whatever but my xtr/stans arch wheels are the nicest I've ever owned. Adding a new rear wheel to the XX1 price tag is just another nail in the coffin....but tickle down baby, trickle down, I'll be a 1X11 guy soon. Thanks :)
  • 05-01-2013
    allthatflash
    If they made XX1 spider that would fit my XO carbon cranks, I would be all over it.[/QUOTE]

    You can swap the spider on XO cranks....they are the same, you will need to change the cassette,der, chain and shifters tho.
  • 05-01-2013
    Fastskiguy
    Or aftermarket rings by wolf tooth components and soon race face....
  • 05-01-2013
    irishpitbull
    Say what? Can you just buy the XX1 spider?
  • 05-01-2013
    Fastskiguy
    Nah, you just buy one of these guys and use them on your "regular" cranks if you don't want to buy the XX1 cranks.

    wolftoothcomponents.com
  • 05-01-2013
    irishpitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fastskiguy View Post
    Nah, you just buy one of these guys and use them on your "regular" cranks if you don't want to buy the XX1 cranks.

    wolftoothcomponents.com

    Nice brother! Be right back, retrieving credit card.
  • 05-01-2013
    Fastskiguy
    Merely standing on the shoulders of others far more knowledgable :)

    http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...th-842396.html
  • 05-01-2013
    DLd
    Concerning gearing, I'm running a 40x28 with an 11-36 in the rear now, so if I went with a 38T XX1 setup, I'd pretty much only lose 1 gear for climbing (pretty similar to 28x32) and I'd have an even taller high gear, 38x10 vs 40x11. I suppose I could go for a 36T front and have about the same for tall gears, and only lose about a half a shift for low gear. Hrrrmmm, cost seems to be the only downside.

    Geez, even the cassette is lighter than my cassette.
  • 05-07-2013
    kosmo
    Anybody bothered by the big jump of near 17% from the 36 to the 42 (vs. ~12.5% from the 32 to 36)?

    Mostly because of that, I decided at the last second to stick with 2 x 10 when building up my Czar (which is seeming to be the endurance bike of my dreams, so far).
  • 05-07-2013
    amd
    No. At that point, you're going so slowly, that if you're dropping to the 42, you want that gear to feel as easy as possible. I welcome that 17% with open arms when I need it.



    Did the Cohutta 100 a few weeks back on XX1. It rained all day. It was muddier than you can imagine... for hours and hours and hours. XX1 was flawless. Perfect amount of gears with a 32t up front for the 13k of climbing. Chain was still good after all the mud/sand/dirt all day. It is a tough group.
  • 05-07-2013
    trhoppe
    I meowed out on Cohutta but got more miles on the XX1 one and doing a "big" 200 mile bikepacking ride with it next weekend. I also love that 17% jump, because if I'm using it, at that point, I'm not "chugging" anymore, I'm "surviving" :)
  • 05-08-2013
    santacruzer
    Iím running a 1x10 using an XX1 Crankset with an XTR cassette and XTR rear derailleur (using the XX1 11 speed chain) and itís been perfect so far. It was fine at Cohutta
  • 05-08-2013
    mbco1975
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    Anybody bothered by the big jump of near 17% from the 36 to the 42 (vs. ~12.5% from the 32 to 36)?

    When you shift from 36 to 42 it doesn't feel like that much of a jump at first, but you can just cruise up really steep hills when you're spent. I can't really describe it, but it's strangely wonderful :)

    The jump at the other end from 12 to 10 is bigger (20%). On the odd occasion I do find myself flicking between the 10 to 12 as I can't find the gear I want, but I think I just need to get use to it.

    That's me being really picky though. I don't see me buying a bike with a FD ever again.
  • 05-08-2013
    DLine
    Did my first race on XX1 last weekend (60 miler Battle of the Bear in Morrison, CO). Loved it. I ran a 34t front, and could see going to a 36 on courses where there are stretches of flat or fire roads. The shifting was perfect - quiet, smooth. I never used the 42 (the course featured short, punchy climbs rather than sustained uphills), but I'm sure that I will on upcoming races. I can't really see a downside to it at this point for marathon XC. You just have to get a sense for what front ring suits a particular race course, and then get out there and not think about your drivetrain at all.
  • 05-10-2013
    Trophy
    I just got my first ride in on the xx1 full group. Went 24 miles at our best trail. It's nice, really nice! The shifts are incredibly smooth and precise. Shifting up the cassette is almost silent. Shifting down is audible in a good way. We weighed each of the xx1 parts that went on the bike, as well as, the x9/x0 stuff that came off. I shaved 1.25 pounds! I do like the idea of mixing the xtr components. That may be the best all around choice but I really needed everything anyway so for me the full group was best.
  • 05-10-2013
    irishpitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    I just got my first ride in on the xx1 full group. Went 24 miles at our best trail. It's nice, really nice! The shifts are incredibly smooth and precise. Shifting up the cassette is almost silent. Shifting down is audible in a good way. We weighed each of the xx1 parts that went on the bike, as well as, the x9/x0 stuff that came off. I shaved 1.25 pounds! I do like the idea of mixing the xtr components. That may be the best all around choice but I really needed everything anyway so for me the full group was best.


    Were you 1x10 prior to the conversion XX1?
  • 05-10-2013
    abelfonseca
    1 Attachment(s)
    There some cases where I think XX1 will never work. I dont think it would be pratical at all where I ride. This is an example of a pretty long climb we regularly do, gaining somewhat like 5100 feet in about 10 miles. This time we went right back down but sometimes we ride the crest of the range. Yo could climb this with xx1 but you would need a smallish chainring but then you would be undergeared once the climb was over.

    cheers
  • 05-10-2013
    Trophy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Were you 1x10 prior to the conversion XX1?

    No, I was 2x10 prior.

    Quote:

    Yo could climb this with xx1 but you would need a smallish chainring but then you would be undergeared once the climb was over.
    I don't think so...

    Actually, my first impressions were very good in regards to being under-geared after the crest. The standard xx1 group (32 front) offers pretty much the same high gear and low gear as my previous 2X10. My ride was on a fabulous single track that offers plenty of grinders. I used the 42 tooth a few times for fun but never once got into the 11 tooth. The 11 would have me at like 35mph and I would probably hit a tree and die. Of course I need to visit more terrain but my initial thoughts are to swap for a 30 front to find less drag in the happy medium range.

    I read everything that I could get my hands on prior to purchasing the xx1 and I still had my concerns. Then I met a guy at the trail head that had this group. This guy is a well accomplished xc rider. He has over 500 miles on the xx1 along with a couple of races. He said that he honestly can't come up with a single complaint about the package.

    The only thing that I'm a little uneasy about is derailleur life. Only because it's such a big change from what Sram has done in the past. The crank is rock solid. The shifter and cassette haven't taken on much change in build from previous xx components. The derailleur however, is completely different from anything that's been proven over time. What's the chances of this thing lasting like XTR? I don't know, time will have to tell on that.
  • 05-11-2013
    Corbinworks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    Racing in Florida? Sure.

    :thumbsup:
  • 05-11-2013
    Corbinworks
    I am on 1x10 XT cassette & XO Type 2 and Love it..