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  1. #1
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    Unsupported Colorado Trail Race

    Reading what Scott wrote in Stephan's thread, is this happening next year? I (for one) was planning a solo TT/unsupported trip on the whole CT with detours next summer. Scott/Mike C, are you guys already planning such a thing? Care to announce a date? I've been working out gear lists and planning sections. I've got the guide book and have scouted limited sections so far this year. I'm planning another scouting trip shortly to test some of my overnight gear. With detours it looks doable in a pretty short trip if you don't sleep much.

    I have a feeling from what I've been reading in Dave's race thread and Stephan's that I'm not the only one plotting this...
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  2. #2
    Scott in Tucson
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    Ctr

    Yes, it seems there is quite a bit of interest in a CTR.

    Here's the way I see it: unsupported, end-to-end, with detours around wilderness areas and perhaps even a couple of the less rideable sections.

    What? Did you read that right?

    To me, the CT's unique characteristic is the rideability of the trail (compared to, say, another long distance trail in a certain state kiddie corner to it). I love hike-a-bike and brutal conditions as much as any good red-blooded mountain biker, but we have the AZT 300 and GLR to fill that need.

    I'd love to do a long distance race, mostly on singletrack, and be able to ride it. I think we can do this on the CT.

    Granted, I've only seen the first ~half of the trail. I was waiting until then to start talking about a race. No time like the present, though.

    Questions that need to be answered:

    Start date: I am no expert on high country Colorado weather and duration of monsoonal flow through CO. But to me there are a few options:

    1) early. Try to avoid monsoons, but risk snow in places (San Juan's could be the killer)

    2) during monsoon season. I ride with a lightning rod system, and who doesn't like charred, crispy flesh?

    3) fall. Awesome colors, less storms, but lot's of night riding.

    Route: The largest task to putting on a CT race is determining and precisely defining the race route. I have some thoughts on this, but won't know enough until seeing the rest of the route. Despite Stefan's interesting trip, I think it's clear that the race should be a mountain bike race that doesn't require massive support crews. So we need to detour around wilderness areas. Whether or not we want to detour around some of the hike-a-bike is up for debate.

    To sum up, I'm willing to organize and put this on the calendar for '07. I think it could be one of the best events of this style. I do want to stress that the event would be run in the same style as the AZT 300, GLR and GDR. Self supported, no entry, no frills.

    Best part is that there are some folks from Salt Lake that already make a winner's ring and all other manner of CTR branded merchandise. (Choose the Right)...
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  3. #3
    Exactly 1/2 of 2-Epic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein

    Start date: I am no expert on high country Colorado weather and duration of monsoonal flow through CO. But to me there are a few options:

    1) early. Try to avoid monsoons, but risk snow in places (San Juan's could be the killer)

    2) during monsoon season. I ride with a lightning rod system, and who doesn't like charred, crispy flesh?

    3) fall. Awesome colors, less storms, but lot's of night riding.
    Monsoon season, you serious? Where is MC anyway, his truck has been on my street for weeks Fall is high risk territory. It isn't uncommon to have a foot or better of snow anytime in September or after up in the high country. I'd think July 4 or thereabouts is ideal from a meteoroligical perspective. If it's a big snow year there will be snowfields to cross, but that's likely perferable to monsoons & snowstorms.

    FYI there's annual ride to Kennebec pass & down the CT, starting and finishing in Durango, each July 4. I've done them after big & small winters...after big winters it tends to be a bit marshy up top above timberline, but relatively manageable, especially for you hardcore freaks
    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Best part is that there are some folks from Salt Lake that already make a winner's ring and all other manner of CTR branded merchandise. (Choose the Right)...
    ROTFLMAO!
    Dave

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  4. #4
    Really I am that slow
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    I'm for fall

    Cuase i'll still be on the GDR in july

    This is sounding very interesting
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    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  5. #5
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    excited

    Man my blood is pumping just thinking about this race. I've wanted to do this all season and have saved enough vacation days for next year to be able to do it.

    Timing wise: Make sure to read Stephan's report on his trip a couple years ago. He tried around July 4th and I mentioned that date to him as a possibility for me to do it and he thought it might be too early. They had a lot of snow still then. Monsoon season is somewhat unavoidable and boxed in by chances of snow on both ends.

    Route: I'd say do the route with as much of the trail as possible and only the mandatory detours.
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  6. #6
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    The C.T. passes near my house and I ride some part of the Georgia Pass to Gold Hill section nearly once a week. I have also thru-hiked the trail in 2000.

    There would need to be mandatory detours around the Wilderness areas. The only logistical problem would be deciding which way to go for the "official" race route. Some detours have more options than others.

    Aside from the Wilderness detours I would say keep everything else in it. Yeah you might have to hike some but the scenery is great and you'll more than likely be on singletrack. One persons nightmare is anothers dream. Besides the beauty of a race like this would be that it has a lot of singletrack.

    So what do you think? 5 days? More, less?

  7. #7
    Really I am that slow
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    I *Think*

    It could be done in 4-5 days with sleep depervation...

    Mabe faster.... Mike C might be able to do it in 3

    I need to pick up the colorado trail book so I can figgure out the detours ect... not sure how many miles those add/ take away.....
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  8. #8
    I can't ride 45!
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    As soon as I post this someone will go and prove me a fool but I think 4-5 days is a bit optimistic. I believe I know a guy who was winning a bunch of solo 24hr events on his SS who attempted a 6 day trek CT on multiple ocassions but never finished. I was looking at the salida Vapor Trail 125 event results from 2005 and Dave Weins time was 12+ hours range which would put you (actually him) at a theoretical four day CT journey, but that was a one day (sorta?) supported event. The CT has some incredibly difficult singletrack and it throws it at you day after day. Definitely an incredible ride. I would guess 6 minimum for a pro.

  9. #9
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    Time?

    Stephen and I discussed that 4 days seemed possible. You have to approach this race with a very limited sleep mindset. VaporTrail is 125 miles in 12 hours, there's still 12 more hours in a day. Dave I have the guide book if you want to photocopy some pages. I'll bring just the pages we need for this weekend. It will be interesting to see how the trail looks at night
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  10. #10
    I can't ride 45!
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    Well if you do it from Durango to Denver I will be waiting for you with a beer at waterton canyon at the end of day four.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Reading what Scott wrote in Stephan's thread, is this happening next year? I (for one) was planning a solo TT/unsupported trip on the whole CT with detours next summer. Scott/Mike C, are you guys already planning such a thing? Care to announce a date? I've been working out gear lists and planning sections. I've got the guide book and have scouted limited sections so far this year. I'm planning another scouting trip shortly to test some of my overnight gear. With detours it looks doable in a pretty short trip if you don't sleep much.

    I have a feeling from what I've been reading in Dave's race thread and Stephan's that I'm not the only one plotting this...
    Great idea to all involved. Unsupported is the only way I'd get behind (and/or into) something like this. The trail (with bike detours) is so rideable and fun that I can't believe it'll be '07 before a true TT will have been run on it. I've owned the maps and guidebook since '95 and I'm embarrassed to say this is my first shot at the whole trail. I have no excuse--what about all of you? What have we all been doing with ourselves???

    Scott and I are looking at finishing up our thru-ride this week/end, weather permitting. During and after the ride we'll be discussing the detours. All input is welcome, of course.

    The date is a toughy. No matter which date we pick, it'll never work with everyone's schedules, even if we announce it next week for a start date over 12 months away. Even more pressing is the weather/snowpack issue. Try as we all might, we have no clue what kind of snowpack we'll be looking at until ~3 weeks before the start of the event.

    My cursory vote goes to a mid-July start. Monsoons 'typically' don't set up until late July (this July notwithstanding) and are preceded by weeks of high pressure. Daylight is also a big issue, and it'll be hard to beat mid-July. As I see it, going after the monsoons (~Sept 1st) is also a distinct possibility, but you're trading a few degrees of temperature and several hours of daylight for the chance that the weather will be more cooperative. The chance is good, albeit fickle.

    It's all a gamble. What say ye?

    MC

  12. #12
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    I am getting the tingley feeling "down there" thinking about this.

    I better start sleeping with a plastic bag over my head to get ready for the altitude.

    Keep this discussion going. The more "set in stone" this becomes the more I think I might show my corn-eat'n-ass up.

  13. #13
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    MikeC I think mid July might be the ticket although we'll not know for sure until we see the snow next year. Long days would be the best. I only want to carry so many batteries

    I've planned a week for this next year and will be going no matter what. It would be fun to do a night start, especially Denver to Durango as the road from Waterton would make a really cool easy neutral zone and then let it go when the road turns up.

    Jeff you should come out I'll see you at TIv3 and Moab(?)
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  14. #14
    Scott in Tucson
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    Start Date - as I've milled it over today, I'm starting to prefer a July start date also. The 4th it likely too early, as Stefan found in 2005. There's never enough daylight in these races, so I'm all for maximizing it. Unless someone can make a convincing snow-pack or monsoon argument, let's shoot for mid-July.

    Route - A few votes for sticking with the trail as much as possible. Two years ago I would have voted the same. When I first toured the Arizona Trail I went to ridiculous lengths to stay on the trail, and I wouldn't change a thing, but the hike-a-bike was pretty unreal.

    Maybe I'm getting soft in my young age, but I think the CT race will flow better and be more enjoyable if a few efforts are made to keep it reasonable. To those desiring hike-a-bike: have you ever raced 200+ miles of singletrack, carrying gear to eat/drink/sleep? The gear decreases what you can ride (and makes hike-a-bike harder) and racing (read getting tired) further decreases your ability to climb steep hills. What I'm saying is even portions of trail that seem just fine on an unloaded bike, on 8 hour legs can turn into hike-a-bike.

    Just something to think about. For the Arizona Trail 300 I kept the route on the trail as much as I could. It made a great race, but there was a lot of walking involved. Not necessarily a bad thing...

    Winning Time - Only one way to know...

    My wild guess is that the winning time will be ~5 days. But it's really hard to tell, especially not having seen the second half. I'm no Pro and my time in the AZT 300 was 2.66 days. I could not have sustained that pace for 200 more miles (ha! hahaha!!), but even sticking with the CT, true-blue, I think the riding will be slightly easier/faster.

    Opinions may change upon completion of the rest of the route...
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  15. #15
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    Scott,

    What hike-a-bike sections are you refering to? As I recall from the newest book (got it a few months ago) most detours are mandatory because of wilderness areas. Obviously we would take those. Aside from those there are 1 or 2 other optional detours? My book isn't handy but those all seemed rideable to me from the description. Perhaps I should cross reference with Stephen's latest report. Water seems a lot more available than something like the Grand Loop and my camping gear doesn't weigh too much. We'll see if it's enough this weekend.
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  16. #16
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    What hike-a-bike sections are you refering to? My book isn't handy but those all seemed rideable to me from the description.
    "seemed rideable" is the key phrase here. Remember the guidebook often calls rideable sections "too hard" and yet mentions nothing about how much hike-a-bike are on other sections. In short, don't trust the guidebook for any indication on how rideable the trail is.

    The climb up over the Ten Mile range (Breck->Copper Mtn) was largely a hike for Mike and I, and we had just rested ~12 hours and were not racing. It's beau-tee-full at the top, but you're up there for a few minutes before descending right back down, and so steeply that it's not much fun.

    Many of the climbs out of drainages from Leadville->Salida are not rideable. They're not too long, though, and they lead to some very nice sections of trail.

    Sargents Mesa, beyond Salida, is reportedly full of very poor trail. Rough and full of short, unrideable grunts. Nothing we can do about this one though.

    Some of the more interesting questions of route are further south where I really can't comment. The Spring Creek Pass section is one. There's also a way to stay with more of the trail towards the La Garitas that Mike and I will probably check out.

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  17. #17
    This place needs an enema
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Where is MC anyway, his truck has been on my street for weeks
    Damn, it's still there? I was hoping someone woulda stolen it by now so I could collect a phat insurance check. That thing's gotta be worth hundreds...

    !

    Scott and I are looking at trying to finish it out this wknd. You around on Sunday?

    MC

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Stephen and I discussed that 4 days seemed possible. You have to approach this race with a very limited sleep mindset.
    I'd be very, very surprised if someone could break 5 days. Yes, minimal sleep is necessary, but without some recovery you'll be walking a bunch of otherwise rideable stuff. Walking = slow. More sleep = more recovery = more riding. There's a balance in there somewhere.

    MC

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Start Date - as I've milled it over today, I'm starting to prefer a July start date also. The 4th it likely too early, as Stefan found in 2005. There's never enough daylight in these races, so I'm all for maximizing it. Unless someone can make a convincing snow-pack or monsoon argument, let's shoot for mid-July.
    Agreed. Anyone have a compelling reason to start on any certain day of the week? I'd vote mid-week to minimize traffic on the Denver end. That's the only place that traffic will really matter.

    To those desiring hike-a-bike: have you ever raced 200+ miles of singletrack, carrying gear to eat/drink/sleep? The gear decreases what you can ride (and makes hike-a-bike harder) and racing (read getting tired) further decreases your ability to climb steep hills. What I'm saying is even portions of trail that seem just fine on an unloaded bike, on 8 hour legs can turn into hike-a-bike.
    This can't be overstated. How many steep climbs can you ride at the end of a 24 hour race? What about after 48? 72?? So far, Scott and I have toured the route, traveling light but taking our time, eating a lot, sleeping a lot, even getting a room and a shower a few times. Nonetheless, we've walked significant stretches and we're gonna walk a bunch more before it's over. If it were possible to do the whole trail (i.e. no wilderness detours) I'd be in favor of just calling it good at that. But since it's not, and since there are certain stretches that are primarily hike-a-bike and with easy alternatives, I'm gonna vote to include some of the alternates. Which ones? TBD.

    Thoughts?

    MC

  20. #20
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    This one is gonna be fun to hammer out. I feel compelled to ask if sleeping in my own bed is too much support, if I can ride there, I assume. This race will hit many a local.
    Sharing tactics and making a hard ride "easier" will be needed for those of us who hope to finish. Am I at the mercy of joe`s garage food? Whatever I can ride too? This unsupported clause should include the Safeway in Leadville for a time trial split.
    Have a start point at both ends. Mark the point, make a race in a race. Summer solstice unless it is a huge snow year, decide late winter, different every year. Vote.
    One hour before sunrise for a start time.
    Last edited by consumerbydesign; 08-24-2006 at 10:47 PM.

  21. #21
    giddy up!
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    Un-supported race on the CT...now we're talking.

    This is exactly the type of race that I've been talking about and hoping to do in the next few years.

    Can any of you recommend a book or series of maps that will help me get a grasp for the trail, detours, resupply points, etc.

    Crap...I'm gonna have to buy a suspension fork.

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  22. #22
    I can't ride 45!
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    For trail info the Official CT Guide Book is the definitive reference. There is also a set of topo maps available from the CT website built on the trail survey done by Bear Creek Survey. The GPS data from those is great but the maps and software are not my favorites. You can get the GPS data directly from the survey website and load them into any topo software or GPS device which is damn handy if you are into that sort of thing...

    http://www.bearcreeksurvey.com/Reroutes.htm

    As for the trail the "descent" from Sargents Mesa to Colorado Hwy-114, segment 17, is pretty wicked. I have not seen the sections around Coney Summit but they will probably be difficult relative to the other sections. Most will have already seen the high altitude sections past Hotel Draw Road; I assume there will be plenty of walking there as well.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey
    Can any of you recommend a book or series of maps that will help me get a grasp for the trail, detours, resupply points, etc.
    See the 'bear creek survey' gps stuff above. That's the best/easiest way, assuming you speak GPS. I'm barely fluent, but I can see the benefits. The official CT guidebook is helpful, albeit flawed in many respects.

    Crap...I'm gonna have to buy a suspension fork. B
    Never say die! I don't think it's necessary. Really. I've ridden with suspension on the ~350 miles I've done so far, but I don't think it's mandatory by any stretch. Especially if you're used to riding rigid.


    MC
    Last edited by mikesee; 08-23-2006 at 10:19 PM.

  24. #24
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    OK so maybe I got a little over excited. I see the points being made about the non mandatory detours. Not such a bad idea at all.

    At this point is there a decision on mail resupply drops? Does this constitute support?
    Also what tire pressure do you think is best for a race like this?



    Just kidding on that last one.

  25. #25
    Which way? Uphill.
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    Sleep deprivation, long distances, no support. This is starting to sound more and more like an Adventure Race, but with only biking.

    You could also go the more AR type format in some sections and make checkpoints that the riders have to go through and let them choose the route, whether that be bike detour on road, dirt or pack up the bike and hoof it. Could add an exciting bit to it as well, the whole "Did someone pass me taking a different route?" aspect of things. You could do this on the areas where it's mandatory to detour and make it a possibilty on sections of the trail that are mostly hike-a-bike, all other times stick to the trail.

    Not that I'm going to be participating next year but I think that would add some fun to developing strategies for the race.

    To prove that someone was at the checkpoint everyone could have a disposable camera and take a picture of their bike at each checkpoint.
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  26. #26
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    Direction, Detours and Dates

    Some facts and my opinions to go along with them...

    Direction:

    Seems like everyone is assuming we’ll start in Denver. Why not Durango?

    Detours:

    I took a peek at the new (7th edition) CT guidebook. Elevation profiles have been updated! This should almost be mandatory reading for anyone attempting the trail as it has been rerouted in a several spots over the last 5 years. Also, the “official” detours are clearly defined in the book.

    Might as well list ‘em up so we can discuss. Starting from Denver we have:

    1.) Mandatory Lost Creek Wilderness (LCW) Detour
    a.) Ride out to Bailey, then up US-285 to Kenosha Pass. ~25mi
    b.) Ride the Tarryall detour. 72 miles
    c.) Hike 1st section of LCW (7ish miles), ride to Long Gulch, detour on FSR-56

    2.) Optional Tenmile Range Detour
    a.) Ride the Tenmile Bike Path
    b.) Ride the actual CT

    3.) Mandatory Holy Cross & Mt. Massive Wilderness Detour

    a.) Ride from Wurtz Ditch Rd. to Leadville, then out to Halfmoon Creek TH

    4.) Mandatory Collegiate Peaks Wilderness Detour
    a.) Ride to Hwy. 24, left on CR-371 to Buena Vista. Out CR-306 to Avalanche TH

    5.) Mandatory La Garita Wilderness (LGW) Detour
    a.) Ride Rd. NN14 to KK14 over Los Pinos Pass to Hwy 149
    b.) Ride to edge of LGW, hike 2.5 miles to Eddiesville TH, get lost trying to find Rd. NN14

    6.) Optional Coney Summit Detour & Mandatory Weminuche Wilderness Detour
    a.) Continue LGW Detour on Hwy 149, Ride over Cinnamon Pass to Silverton
    b.) Ride the actual CT to Rio Grande Res. Rd, detour over Stony Pass to Silverton
    c.) Ride the actual CT to Carson Saddle. Detour down Wager Gulch and over Cinnamon Pass to Silverton

    Yup, that’s a lot of friggin’ detours. There are even more, so if you are adamant about adding another, let me know and I’ll edit this post. I love nepbug’s checkpoint + choose-your-own-adventure idea, but I think this only makes sense for the LCW detour and only if we outlaw going to Bailey. On all the other options, the detours would be much faster!

    In my opinion, if you’re gonna hike at all, you might as well hike everything, so I vote for ‘em all (detours, that is): 1a, 2a, 5a, 6a. Unfortunately, this makes the race probably only half on singletrack. But at ~500 miles, that’s still a lot!

    Dates:

    If we can put off setting the date until next April, that would be perfect. Then, if the snowpack is low, (like this year, 2006) we can start in early/mid July. If it is a big spring snow season (like in 2005, especially in the San Juans), starting in early/mid July would make for a crappy race. If you have any doubts, check out some of the snow pics from my unsuccessful ’05 attempt <a href=http://www.climbingdreams.net/life/2005/ct/>here.</a> I agree that the earlier we can start, the better, but when it comes down to it, I vote for less light and less snow – mid to late July. I also vote for the weekday start.

    As for finish time predictions, having 1st hand knowledge of the abilities of several of the people posting here, I’ll make a friendly wager of a beer or 3 that it goes in under 5 days! Any takers?
    Last edited by Stefan_G; 08-24-2006 at 11:24 AM.

  27. #27
    'r you some kinda ssissy?
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    this looks interesting.

    i've been looking for an excuse to build a multi day mtb specific bike. this may be it.

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    Detours

    Damn I just calculated the distances of each segment and the detours today. However if Tarryall is really 72 miles I'm a little off. The guidebook conviently stops giving distances as 49.4...

    With doing 1a,2b,3a,4a,5a,6b and if Tarryall is 72 miles that gives a total (guidbook) distance of 538.9 miles.

    A weekday start is fine with me but I'd rather that the first 5 days cross at least 2 weekend days so that those of us with full time jobs at least get full use of our 2 "free" days off. I'll be out on the Denver end of the trail tomorrow from the evening on until Saturday afternoon. If you see me on a monocog and Dave on his fixed crosscheck say hi. Try not to run over us if we bivy somewhere.
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    you bastards

    so you bastards have started talking about a CT race without me? anyways sounds pretty damn cool, i have ridden the whole thing with minimal detours and it is rugged in many places, i say we go minimal detours as otherwise it becomes too similar to the great divide as far as i can tell, long dirt roads going way outta the way, and the ridding in between is damn cool. So what would be the rules on support, mail drops ok? just wondering, gas station food doesn't do much for me except hurt. when i rode it i rode durango to gunny(+) with dog, bob trailer etc and it took 11 days, then in august of 05? i rode gunny to denver in 5 days solo unsupported carring all my food, that was brutal, but awesome. The only problem i can see is too many of these damn super hardcore races and not enough recovery time! peace out

  30. #30
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    How about making this an ITT, and let everyone set their own date? You can set an ideal date for a mass start, but allow others that may not be able to make it then do the ITT before or afterwards. Kind of like how the fastpackers set records on major trails. I think thats how MC has done his mega races also. I may be able to do this, but I don't know yet what will be happening with my job.

  31. #31
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G

    Seems like everyone is assuming weíll start in Denver. Why not Durango?
    Not sure. People have experience with the route in the Denver->Durango direction. Also, start logistics are much easier for those flying in. Since people tend to drop out in these events, it makes sense to have the start be the easiest to access.

    Any reason to start in Durango?


    1.) Mandatory Lost Creek Wilderness (LCW) Detour
    a.) Ride out to Bailey, then up US-285 to Kenosha Pass. ~25mi
    b.) Ride the Tarryall detour. 72 miles
    c.) Hike 1st section of LCW (7ish miles), ride to Long Gulch, detour on FSR-56
    I'm thinking (c). Makes things a little interesting. With an appropriate start no one will be able to get there before dark. Dark = no hikers = good.

    Mike and I hopped back on the trail near Rock Creek and rode it to Kenosha Pass. All good stuff there.

    2.) Optional Tenmile Range Detour
    a.) Ride the Tenmile Bike Path
    b.) Ride the actual CT
    (a) for reasons already stated. Pretty much a hike-a-bike for anyone I've ever seen ride a bike.

    3.) Mandatory Holy Cross & Mt. Massive Wilderness Detour
    a.) Ride from Wurtz Ditch Rd. to Leadville, then out to Halfmoon Creek TH

    4.) Mandatory Collegiate Peaks Wilderness Detour
    a.) Ride to Hwy. 24, left on CR-371 to Buena Vista. Out CR-306 to Avalanche TH
    These both make sense, bringing us into Leadville for resupply and avoiding fairly long sections of wilderness.

    5.) Mandatory La Garita Wilderness (LGW) Detour
    a.) Ride Rd. NN14 to KK14 over Los Pinos Pass to Hwy 149
    b.) Ride to edge of LGW, hike 2.5 miles to Eddiesville TH, get lost trying to find Rd. NN14
    We successfully made it from Eddiesville to Los Pinos Pass. The road climbs high (11,500) but it's well graded and fast. The canyon west of Los Pinos (on the LGW detour) was surprisingly spectacular.

    So I might go with (b). The hike is essentially flat and very easy. There's so much to detour coming up that I'd want to stay with the trail longer while it's rideable.

    ]6.) Optional Coney Summit Detour & Mandatory Weminuche Wilderness Detour
    a.) Continue LGW Detour on Hwy 149, Ride over Cinnamon Pass to Silverton
    b.) Ride the actual CT to Rio Grande Res. Rd, detour over Stony Pass to Silverton
    c.) Ride the actual CT to Carson Saddle. Detour down Wager Gulch and over Cinnamon Pass to Silverton
    Not sure here. We got the crap kicked out of us up on the actual CT. The first mile was unrideable mud, the second mile no-trail rockiness, then the storms started building...

    We ended up bailing off the side of the ridge down to Castle Lakes. Ever bushwhacked 3500 feet downhill in less than 2 miles, with a loaded bike? Not reccommended.

    In short, I haven't seen the trail from the hike-a-bike up the cliff face to Wager Gulch and Pole Creek. Does it improve or get worse after the cliff hike?

    Cinnamon Pass is a superb ride. If it weren't for the 75 thunderstorms breathing down our necks it would have been a complete blast.

    It's a tough one, though. It makes for a long section of dirt roads if you don't head up to Spring Creek Pass. Another plus of staying off the CT in this area is snow -- it tends to linger a while above 13k.

    In my opinion, if youíre gonna hike at all, you might as well hike everything, so I vote for Ďem all (detours, that is): 1a, 2a, 5a, 6a. Unfortunately, this makes the race probably only half on singletrack. But at ~500 miles, thatís still a lot!
    Indeed, that's still a boatload of singletrack. I agree with you except that I'm toying with the idea of requiring the Lost Creek and La Garita hikes.

    If we can put off setting the date until next April, that would be perfect.
    Might be too late for people that need to plan ahead. I don't mind being fluid (my plans usually are), but others might object... ??

    I also vote for the weekday start.
    Weekday sounds good, but quickly overlapping a weekend for those with that J-word.

    Iíll make a friendly wager of a beer or 3 that it goes in under 5 days! Any takers?
    We shall see. I think it could go <5, but probably not the first year and only with good conditions.

    Scott
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  32. #32
    Scott in Tucson
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    Hey Jefe--

    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    so you bastards have started talking about a CT race without me?
    Next time we'll be sure to ask your permission first...

    anyways sounds pretty damn cool, i have ridden the whole thing with minimal detours and it is rugged in many places, i say we go minimal detours as otherwise it becomes too similar to the great divide as far as i can tell, long dirt roads going way outta the way, and the ridding in between is damn cool.
    No real comparison between the CTR and GDR, even with more detours than we're discussing here. I think it's going to be rugged enough....

    So what would be the rules on support, mail drops ok?
    Sure. Same rules as the GDR.

    just wondering, gas station food doesn't do much for me except hurt.
    You can always hit Breck for some fine dining.

    There are quite a few grocery stores on or near the route, too.

    when i rode it i rode durango to gunny(+) with dog, bob trailer etc and it took 11 days, then in august of 05?
    Whaa? Did you go up Stony Pass, Pole Creek to Spring Creek Pass? With Bob and Dog?!

    The only problem i can see is too many of these damn super hardcore races and not enough recovery time! peace out
    I hear that!
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  33. #33
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrwmojo
    How about making this an ITT, and let everyone set their own date? You can set an ideal date for a mass start, but allow others that may not be able to make it then do the ITT before or afterwards. Kind of like how the fastpackers set records on major trails. I think thats how MC has done his mega races also. I may be able to do this, but I don't know yet what will be happening with my job.
    Once we set a route, anyone is free to ITT it at any time. If they follow the same rules of self-support and ride faster than anyone in the race, they'll be recognized as such.

    In the interest of using competition to motivate and push the envelope further, we'll set a date for a race. 'Sides, misery loves company...
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  34. #34
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    Hell yeah. I'm so excited about this race I can't stand it. Set the date, give me info, let's talk. I even got the go ahead from the wife. Only problem, I'll have to run it with gears. I don't think I could handle all the pushing on a SS. My knees would hate me! I've got so many questions I don't know where to begin. I'll just wait for one of the head honchos to pipe up and get the ball rolling. One things for sure, I ain't worried about no stinkin water bottle cage bolt placement. OOOOPPPSSS!

  35. #35
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    excited!

    Excited isn't the word! I spent the weekend on the trail with a race like load. Despite the rain and rocking the single I had an amazing time. It's going to be an awesome race.

    I will do any route/detours that others want. Only thing about making only some hikes mandatory is that it no long feels like a bike race to me. I dunno, something makes me say either do it all straight through with all wilderness sections hiked or keep the detours biking. Either way I'll be section hiking and riding the majority of the trail between now and the race as weather and snow allows. It's so much fun!!! I will be racing on a geared bike though.
    On-One Lurcher SS
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  36. #36
    Really I am that slow
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    Chris you panisy

    Gears for that race come on..... You could do it on the single =)

    Super fun weekend with chris in the rain =)

    Can't wait to scout more of it....

    Not too much of a fan of hiking with the bike.... I'd kinna ethier want to bike to whole thing or hike the whole thing
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  37. #37
    Time to go farther
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot
    Gears for that race come on..... You could do it on the single =)
    I could do it on the single for sure. The fact for me remains that I'm slower on the singlespeed and I have limited time away from the dreaded J-word. I'll keep to doing the preriding on the singlespeed and it will all feel real easy with cheater gears.
    On-One Lurcher SS
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  38. #38
    Just go ride!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Any reason to start in Durango?
    I think it might go faster/easier from Durango to Denver. I felt that both the 2b and 6b detour might have been a bit more rideable in that direction. That's only speculation on my part though. The Sargents Mesa segments might actually be worse. Also, the last 70+ miles would be quite a bit easier too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    I'm thinking (c). Makes things a little interesting. With an appropriate start no one will be able to get there before dark. Dark = no hikers = good.
    I like this idea, however, everyone entering the race should be aware that they are fully responsible for "hiking" through the LCW should any questions arise. Same goes for the tiny piece of the LGW near Eddiesville TH. More opinions, please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    We successfully made it from Eddiesville to Los Pinos Pass. The road climbs high (11,500) but it's well graded and fast.
    I'm glad you were able to scope this out. In this case, I change my vote to 5b for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    We ended up bailing off the side of the ridge down to Castle Lakes. Ever bushwhacked 3500 feet downhill in less than 2 miles, with a loaded bike? Not reccommended.

    In short, I haven't seen the trail from the hike-a-bike up the cliff face to Wager Gulch and Pole Creek. Does it improve or get worse after the cliff hike?
    Uggh, that sounds miserable. After the cliff hike-a-bike, the trail is mostly rideable all the way to the uphill part of the next segment. Then, the downhill along Pole Creek was pretty crappy and muddy. Made it feel more like up than down. I've ridden Cinnamon Pass before, and think it's a great option. That would also make Lake City much less out of the way which would be good. It's a looooong way from Buena Vista to Silverton on the CT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Another plus of staying off the CT in this area is snow -- it tends to linger a while above 13k.
    Total crap shoot there. This year, the snow above 12k-13k was gone in early July. Last year, it stuck around all through July, especially in the San Juans!

    I'll toss a start date of Thurs or Fri, 7/19/07 or 7/20/07 out there to see what people think.

  39. #39
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    ride

    this sounds great. I guess it's been in the back of many a people minds. I for one would favor a ridable course. If you're really psyched on pushing your bike, or think you're super manly and will ride everything after 20+ hours of riding, there is the event for you, it's called montezuma's revenge. July sounds good, re routing the wilderness and unridable sections sounds good.

  40. #40
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    Wilderness

    I'm really not in favor of a setup that might encourage people to ride the wilderness areas, even at night. Tire tracks would still be there for one thing and two it's just not right. We can hike the wilderness or detour around it but let's not poach it at night. That sets a bad example I think. If i just interpreted the posts wrong then my fault. Just thought I'd put that out there.

    On a cheery note, Oh boy am I having fun getting ready!
    On-One Lurcher SS
    Speedway Cycles Fatback Ti SS
    1984 Trek 560
    http://slipangles.blogspot.com/ - It's supposed to be fun

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