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  1. #1
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    Ultracentric results?

    So who won the Ultracentric 24 and 48 races in McKinney this weekend?
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    We won the 24hr 4man race. I didn't know the 24solo winner, but it wasn't who I was expecting. The 48solo winner was that Haas guy.

    edit: I wouldn't expect the results to be posted anytime soon, if at all. That was the worst run event I've ever been to and the race director, Robert Tavernini, is a lying pos. We got absolutely nothing for first place...just an "attaboy". We spoke with the owner of the "sponsoring" bike shop, and he had no idea he was a race sponsor. In good faith, the shop owner offered to refund our entry fees....but we declined. Robert had promised $3k worth of cash/swag from said bike shop. This will be Robert Tavernini's last dance in the mtb world and I won't do another ultracentric event until he is replaced as race director.
    Last edited by yater; 11-17-2008 at 09:51 AM.

  3. #3
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    24 Hour Solo winner

    The winner of the 24 hour solo was a Florida college student. His first name is Chris and I won't even attempt to butcher the spelling of his last name.

    Chris was a pretty impressive young rider, he was keeping pace with our 4 man team for a while. And he won the event without any support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kstine71
    The winner of the 24 hour solo was a Florida college student. His first name is Chris and I won't even attempt to butcher the spelling of his last name.

    Chris was a pretty impressive young rider, he was keeping pace with our 4 man team for a while. And he won the event without any support.
    Chris was an impressive young man, for sure. However, he was sent home without a payout check and a promise of "we'll talk next week". Doubt he'll get it.
    required disclaimer: I'm a bike shop girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chainringrrl
    Chris was an impressive young man, for sure. However, he was sent home without a payout check and a promise of "we'll talk next week". Doubt he'll get it.

    That's absolutely ridiculous. What excuse did Robert give for not handing him a check? Did he claim that Chris didn't earn it, or did Robert just not have it to give?


    (I was the 2nd place solo finisher, missed the "mileage requirement for payout" by 24 miles, partly due to poor promoter communication)

    Brian
    -Porkchop

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    That sucks! That's a college kid that drove all the way from Florida for this race. I know the guy was racing a Moots, but I'm sure he could have used the prize money as most students could.

    I wonder what the story is with the prize money. Considering the extremely high entry fees, you'd think they could payout as advertised.

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    What a POS!! That prize money was attractive and I almost booked a flight down at the last minute in hopes of coming home with some. Fortunately, I couldn't quite pull it off at the last minute.
    Does anyone know if there were any women solos or SS solos? If so, who won?
    The combination of super patriotism with piety, used in the service of fear to elicit votes while suppressing equality works, but it is lethal for America......

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    Quote Originally Posted by ketchd
    Does anyone know if there were any women solos or SS solos? If so, who won?
    There was at least one women solo 24 that I saw. She was pitting next to our tent and there were Colorado plates on their SUV. Didn't catch the name, but I'm pretty sure she won.

  9. #9
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    I raced SS solo (men), but they didn't score SS any differently than geared.
    -Porkchop

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    Were you the first place SS? If so, then he owes you $3K. Check out:

    http://www.ultracentric.net/mountainbike.html

    That prize money is for all 24 and 48 hour categories (male, female, SS).
    The combination of super patriotism with piety, used in the service of fear to elicit votes while suppressing equality works, but it is lethal for America......

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    Quote Originally Posted by ketchd
    Were you the first place SS? If so, then he owes you $3K. Check out:

    http://www.ultracentric.net/mountainbike.html

    That prize money is for all 24 and 48 hour categories (male, female, SS).
    He was 1st SS solo 24, 2nd 24 solo overall. Had a pretty amazing race.
    But if you'll notice, they made a small change a day or two before the race and attached a minimum mileage to the payouts (big green box halfway down the page).

    I agree PBnJ should get paid. If you advertise (and charge huge fees), you should also be held accountable to what you stated day 1 to attract racers to pay these entry fees. The fact that minimum mileage requirements were posted days before the race (I wasn't aware of them until after the fact) is low-down.

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    I was just noticing that little last minute BS add-on requirement. It could also be interpreted that if you meet the requirements, then you'd get the $4K (instead of $3K) that it says..... Who knows. What a f'n jack@ss. I'm glad I didn't go down there for the race, cuz I might be behind bars today for kickin' the sh!t out of him.
    PBnJ, great job man! Was there much climbing? How long were the laps? How many did you knock off?
    The combination of super patriotism with piety, used in the service of fear to elicit votes while suppressing equality works, but it is lethal for America......

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ketchd
    PBnJ, great job man! Was there much climbing? How long were the laps? How many did you knock off?
    Thanks... There wasn't much climbing, so my 2x1 rigid 69er was just the thing. I took my first break longer than 10 minutes around the 14 hour mark, when I sat down and tried to do some math. By my computer, I would have to keep up the same pace I'd been averaging during the day, all the way to the finish, in order to hit the minimum mileage. My night laps were slower though, so I could tell I wasn't going to hit it. With that knowledge, I did 2 more laps and hit the tent for some rest. I slept for a blissful 4 hours, then got up and did 5 more laps before the 10am finish, for a total on my computer of 22 laps... 150.21 miles.

    The problem was, my computer was showing 6.75 miles per lap, but Robert had calculated the "minimum mileage requirement" based on 8 miles per lap. I didn't realize that until after the race. If I had known that when doing my math at midnight, I would have skipped the sleep, and easily gotten the extra 3 laps needed for the $1500 2nd place cash payout (25x8=200).

    Like I said, I only consider it partly his error (he should have had a minimum lap number, not mileage amount)... I should have been more on top of it. But honestly, I didn't think I'd be in a position for it to matter, when I started the race. And, apparently the payout was bogus anyway. No more UltraCentric Experience for me, thank you.
    -Porkchop

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    Quote Originally Posted by chainringrrl
    However, he was sent home without a payout check and a promise of "we'll talk next week"..
    Did you witness this firsthand?

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    I spoke with the event photographer, Luis, this morning. He doesn't want to dis Robert yet, but he hasn't received his promised payment yet for flying out from California to take photographs. His name and services weren't plugged on the UC website like they were supposed to be, either. Just a flyer in the registration packet.

    Luis seems like a good guy... he says his photos will be ready for viewing/ordering in a day or two, at this website: www.reflectionsphotographystudio.com
    -Porkchop

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBnJ
    I spoke with the event photographer, Luis, this morning. He doesn't want to dis Robert yet, but he hasn't received his promised payment yet for flying out from California to take photographs. His name and services weren't plugged on the UC website like they were supposed to be, either. Just a flyer in the registration packet.

    Luis seems like a good guy... he says his photos will be ready for viewing/ordering in a day or two, at this website: www.reflectionsphotographystudio.com

    Aw man, he is a good guy. I'll check out his pics when they're up. I hope he gets paid.

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    I was the 12hr Solo Women winner (and only entrant). When they were doing "awards" I had to ask for my medal. I could care less about the award, I just wanted the recognition that I and the others deserve. Likewise, he did not even mention any of the 6hr winners.

    I've raced different mtb races in multiple states run by local club organizations thru state organizations and this was the poorest run race that I have ever participated in.

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    This is ridiculous. Photogs not getting paid, the DJ was worried about not getting paid, the list goes on. Robert also negotiated down the amount that was paid to several of the runners AFTER the awards ceremony. Like someone else posted, some racers were also sent home with the promise of getting their checks later. AND, he's contacted several racers in the last day wanting them to destroy their checks and be issued new ones for a lesser amount. This is after he had the balls to change everyones grouping (lumping the SS racers into their respective gender category) AFTER the races started. I really hope that this all goes public and blows up in his face. It really had the promise to be a great event, but this is really running it into the ground.

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    Anyone who witnessed any of this first hand, or is waiting to be paid, or is one of those asked to tear up a check, please contact Mark Abramson, the President of USAcycling, and tell him the details. His email is mark@forwardthought.com . Please, no flames...he is here to help. The mtb event was sanctioned by usacycling and he has plenty of pull as President. He is watching these developments closely.

  20. #20
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    Nice work, Yater.
    -Porkchop

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Anyone who witnessed any of this first hand, or is waiting to be paid, or is one of those asked to tear up a check, please contact Mark Abramson, the President of USAcycling, and tell him the details. His email is mark@forwardthought.com . Please, no flames...he is here to help. The mtb event was sanctioned by usacycling and he has plenty of pull as President. He is watching these developments closely.
    Way to go yater. Thanks for digging this out. Hopefully, all will get what they deserve.

  22. #22
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    I raced in the event as a 48hr soloist. I placed second to Dave Haase who raced a great race and is a class act, thanks for making me suffer in those 30mph headwinds Dave. As an aside, I'm pleased the way things turned out as he deserved the win, there's something to be said about toeing the line next to a 4 x RAAM racer, it makes you realize it's game on.

    Overall the event exceeded my expectations, I don't think I've been to a race where there was that much free (and good quality) food (though I ate very little of it), lots of drinks, rider aid, racer nutrition product, entertainment and other such things. It was a big event and with so many categories going on at once I'm sure it was a big production to organize. I've never organized a bike event but I sure it's not a cakewalk and rather than complaining about it I'm just happy and appreciative that there are organizers out there that create opportunities for us to race.

    Having said that, I agree that the awards ceremony wasn't the smoothest production I've seen, the payouts were confused and the rider swag wasn't typical of mtb races, some of this is probably still being sorted out. Yup, there were different cultures, hahaha, runners certainly aren't mountain bikers. ;-)

    Anyway, I suspect in a few days things will have been resolved one way or another with all parties and once there is better clarity it will be easier to comment. By way of example, I also spoke to Luis (the photographer, who is a cool guy) at the post event and he was still in the process of working out the detail of compensation with the race organization, perhaps in a couple of days that will have been accomplished, who knows? I don't and nobody else does at this point so why not give it a couple of days.

    I put a call into Ultra Centric a short while ago to determine the status of certain things and as part of the conversation Robert Tavernini confirmed to me that this morning he had put a call in to the 24hr solo winner out of Florida to confirm details on his cheque and left a msg on his voicemail. During the conversation, I got the official cheque numbers from the Ultra Centric cheques which are written out to the 48hr finalists and also to the 24hr finalist. I did confirm that Florida Chris's cheque is for $3000 and will be going to his Florida address. The cheques have already gone in the US Postal overnight box and perhaps tomorrow I'll be buying my two boys the ice creams I promised them a few weeks ago. I might even eat an ice cream myself.

    I'm not trying to stop anyone from doing what they feel is the right path for them but at this point I'd say hold off on representing any of the 48 and 24 payout.

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    I don't believe a word Robert says. He lied to me on the phone, he lied to me in emails, and he lied to my face at the check-in table.

    He also changed the event flyer the night before the race. He promised us (the winning 24hr 4man team) $500 gift packages from richardson bike mart. These prizes were later (on race day) allocated to categories which didn't exist. Jim Hoyt, owner of Richarson bike mart, was not aware of these "packages". Robert Tavernini is a pretty smooth con man. Here is the event flyer. Look closely at the "money categories" (24hr 6man and 48hr 4man) and then look at the race categories (hint....the "money" categories don't exist). These changes to the flyer were made within days of the race. Tell us what you think....


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    Understood Yater, I'm not here to defend all of the things that went on I just wanted to post up my experience of the event and at the very least update everyone on the 24/48hr payout piece. I'm not here to speak on behalf of Ultra Centric, Richardson Bike Mart or whoever, I'm just me, speaking my mind.

    Like I said, things could have been smoother. I also think anyone who has a beef (photographer, DJ or whoever) should take that up once it's obvious there is an unfair practice in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by staylor
    Understood Yater, I'm not here to defend all of the things that went on I just wanted to post up my experience of the event and at the very least update everyone on the 24/48hr payout piece. I'm not here to speak on behalf of Ultra Centric, Richardson Bike Mart or whoever, I'm just me, speaking my mind.

    Like I said, things could have been smoother. I also think anyone who has a beef (photographer, DJ or whoever) should take that up once it's obvious there is an unfair practice in place.

    Good work on the 48solo. You're the man.

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    As the sole 48 hour male SS participant I can say I was up against 2 great riders. Dave and Shaun are excellent athletes. I was a little bumed at the lack of SS riders. I give props to chainringrrl for being the sole female SS rider. It was a great course and has the potential to be an excellent event with a more dialed in coordinator.

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    I didn't race in the event but did provide volunteer support Friday as a member of the North Texas Mountain Bike Patrol. I have to agree that the set-up was nice, the support stations were nice and as a volunteer I was treated very well by the volunteer director Jay and by Robert as well. I met some good people that were volunteers and I spent some time talking with Aaron, who's wife Sarah was participating in the 48 hour solo as the only female, at the event and drove in from Arkansas. I've always felt that events such as this were to bring mountain bikers and their support people together in a collective environment of sportsmanship and good times and it looked like this event had that covered.

    I certainly hope that the payouts are made to the 48 hour riders who were working their collective hind parts off and deserve every penny as do the other riders that participated in this event and signed up expecting the payouts as listed. It would be a shame, as well as criminal, for the riders to not receive their due. I thought this event, with a little tweaking, had the future of becoming something great.

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    I realize that this event could have gone smoother than it did, but how many of the athletes out there would have attempted what they did, if Robert had not put the event on. I'm sure the money aspect will be worked out.
    Keep one thing in mind, a lot of people did some pretty phenomenal things and regardless of the outcome, that cannot be taken away. Congrats to all of the racers . . . I'm in absolute awe of some of the laps that were accomplished.

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    I am new to the biking side of things (coming over from ultra running) so please excuse me if I am out of line. I was at the race as a volunteer between 7:30 pm on Saturday night and about 5 am on Sunday morning. I will say that this was quite the event. I do believe there are opportunities for improvement, however, I am amazed at what was accomplished.

    Yater, I understand your emotion around this and certainly hope all of the isssues surrounding the prize mone works out to everyone's satisfaction. Staylor, I was in the cook tent passing out hot soup, coffee, tea, etc. I wish we had more to offer in the wee hours. I have to say that it was a pleasure visiting with you (however briefly) and Haas (sp?), the top contenders in the 48 hour bike event! You guys certainly gave me an appreciation for what endurance biking is all about (again, my perspective is from being on foot in events like these). Congrats to all who tested themselves and broke through new barriers! I certainly hope that the Ultracentric organizers can work through any growing pains and that this event can continue in the future.

    Regards,
    Lynn B

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    Hi,
    I'm the 24 hour solo male winner from Florida and thought I'd put in my perspective. Like Mr. Taylor said, the venue was well setup and with the exception of a few timing chip problems was run smoothly throughout the duration of the race. The awards ceremony was what I would expect from someone who was likely awake for most of the 72 previous hours, but in the end I think everyone got their medal/plaque. In regard to the prize money, I talked to Mr. Tavernini today and he mailed it upon recieving my W-4, so no problems there, not uncommon for a promoter to hold off on the award money until they have time to verify the results.

    So in general I thought the event was good, and having a promoter who clearly knows how to market an event and pull in prize money isn't such a bad thing to have enter the mtb racing scene. Finally, as others have said, the other racers in attendance were great and certainly helped me out with staying warm as I was unsupported. While I've never been to a race with "unfriendly" mtn bikers, I can't say enough how nice it is to be part of the endurance racing world. Hopefully, the Ultracentric will stick around and grow, I don't know what's going on with the team and other soloists prizes but I can't honestly say I think Tavernini is a con man, so no worries there.

    -Chris Janiszewski

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    Quote Originally Posted by TitusX04
    As the sole 48 hour male SS participant I can say I was up against 2 great riders. Dave and Shaun are excellent athletes. I was a little bumed at the lack of SS riders. I give props to chainringrrl for being the sole female SS rider. It was a great course and has the potential to be an excellent event with a more dialed in coordinator.
    Dude, one of my greatest pleasures out there was yelling out to you guys when I'd pass your pit or see you in the transition area or out on course. Good times indeed and a pleasure to meet you guys for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlynnbob
    I am new to the biking side of things (coming over from ultra running) so please excuse me if I am out of line. I was at the race as a volunteer between 7:30 pm on Saturday night and about 5 am on Sunday morning. I will say that this was quite the event. I do believe there are opportunities for improvement, however, I am amazed at what was accomplished.

    Yater, I understand your emotion around this and certainly hope all of the isssues surrounding the prize mone works out to everyone's satisfaction. Staylor, I was in the cook tent passing out hot soup, coffee, tea, etc. I wish we had more to offer in the wee hours. I have to say that it was a pleasure visiting with you (however briefly) and Haas (sp?), the top contenders in the 48 hour bike event! You guys certainly gave me an appreciation for what endurance biking is all about (again, my perspective is from being on foot in events like these). Congrats to all who tested themselves and broke through new barriers! I certainly hope that the Ultracentric organizers can work through any growing pains and that this event can continue in the future.

    Regards,
    Lynn B
    Thanks for everything you did out there Lynn, one of the few "real food" items I took in during the race was that potato soup and man was it GOOD!

    I agree with you, I hope this event is around next year it deserves to grow. The course was tough and technically fun, the local riders should take pride in their efforts to present it as a showpiece, I came away from it after 41 laps still thinking a few more would have been ok. The volunteers were awesome and the way things were setup it would be really easy to race a 24hr unsupported, heck I pretty much raced the first half of my race by myself until my wife showed up to pit for me. A racer could have just shown up with a bike and they would have been set for food and drink from what I saw out there. In fact it was driving me a little crazy hearing all the comments about how good the daytime and evening food was - chicken this and taco that and all I could take in was my liquid race fuel.

    There were a lot of volunteers out there and if you know any of them certainly express my appreciation to them for everything they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janiszew
    Hi,
    I'm the 24 hour solo male winner from Florida and thought I'd put in my perspective. Like Mr. Taylor said, the venue was well setup and with the exception of a few timing chip problems was run smoothly throughout the duration of the race. The awards ceremony was what I would expect from someone who was likely awake for most of the 72 previous hours, but in the end I think everyone got their medal/plaque. In regard to the prize money, I talked to Mr. Tavernini today and he mailed it upon recieving my W-4, so no problems there, not uncommon for a promoter to hold off on the award money until they have time to verify the results.

    So in general I thought the event was good, and having a promoter who clearly knows how to market an event and pull in prize money isn't such a bad thing to have enter the mtb racing scene. Finally, as others have said, the other racers in attendance were great and certainly helped me out with staying warm as I was unsupported. While I've never been to a race with "unfriendly" mtn bikers, I can't say enough how nice it is to be part of the endurance racing world. Hopefully, the Ultracentric will stick around and grow, I don't know what's going on with the team and other soloists prizes but I can't honestly say I think Tavernini is a con man, so no worries there.

    -Chris Janiszewski
    Hey Chris, I'm not sure if you remember but I'm the guy who's wheel you jumped on to do your pre-ride lap on Friday while I was out racing on my 7th lap or whatever it was (the laps kinda blur together a bit). Good chatting with you during the lap and great to see that you delivered on you goals, nice work!

    Shaun Taylor

  34. #34
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    Are results posted anywhere?
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    Are results posted anywhere?
    Not yet. They were supposed to go up on www.ultracentric.net last night. You may just want to keep checking there until they show.

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    results are up


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    Quote Originally Posted by janiszew
    Hi,
    I'm the 24 hour solo male winner from Florida and thought I'd put in my perspective. Like Mr. Taylor said, the venue was well setup and with the exception of a few timing chip problems was run smoothly throughout the duration of the race. The awards ceremony was what I would expect from someone who was likely awake for most of the 72 previous hours, but in the end I think everyone got their medal/plaque. In regard to the prize money, I talked to Mr. Tavernini today and he mailed it upon recieving my W-4, so no problems there, not uncommon for a promoter to hold off on the award money until they have time to verify the results.

    So in general I thought the event was good, and having a promoter who clearly knows how to market an event and pull in prize money isn't such a bad thing to have enter the mtb racing scene. Finally, as others have said, the other racers in attendance were great and certainly helped me out with staying warm as I was unsupported. While I've never been to a race with "unfriendly" mtn bikers, I can't say enough how nice it is to be part of the endurance racing world. Hopefully, the Ultracentric will stick around and grow, I don't know what's going on with the team and other soloists prizes but I can't honestly say I think Tavernini is a con man, so no worries there.

    -Chris Janiszewski
    You had to send a W-4? What'd he do, pay you like you were an employee?
    First time I've heard of that...

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    I thought the W-4 was odd, but I don't make enough to have tax liabilities so there won't be a deduction. He said any prize over $500 is supposed to warrant a W-4, either way it only took 10min to e-mail it to him so it wasn't any sort of hassle. To the others who are receiving prizes (staylor), did he ask for a W-4?

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    Hey Chris,

    I'm a Canadian citizen so I didn't provide anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janiszew
    I thought the W-4 was odd, but I don't make enough to have tax liabilities so there won't be a deduction. He said any prize over $500 is supposed to warrant a W-4, either way it only took 10min to e-mail it to him so it wasn't any sort of hassle. To the others who are receiving prizes (staylor), did he ask for a W-4?
    Not from mountain biking but I used to fish competitively and won some money in Florida and I had to complete one to receive my check. I'm not an accountant but if you kept track of your mileage, fuel receipts and related travel expenses it should offset anything you won.

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    I still don't understand what the payout was for this race. The web site is such a confusing mess. Did the promoter pay solo 24 and 48 hour mtbrs? Or only the runners?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottytheoneandonly
    I still don't understand what the payout was for this race. The web site is such a confusing mess. Did the promoter pay solo 24 and 48 hour mtbrs? Or only the runners?
    I got paid.

  44. #44
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    So, who is doing this again?

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    I'm 89 & 3/4 % on board.

    New venue.....??

    Hopefully more SS this year?

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    I am thinking about it as well. Has anyone ridden this course? An out an back course on single track for 24+ hours could be scary at night with in coming headlights. I imagine that they will have a hard time getting any good numbers, with all of the problems from last year.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02 FSR
    So, who is doing this again?
    You're kidding, right?!

    Tavernini has no approval or endorsement from DORBA, because he's putting on an event without written permission from the land owner, without the claimed sanctioning and insurance from USAC (they denied his application), and without communication with DORBA, the entity in charge of maintaining that trail. He's making claims of support and involvement from people/shops/photographers/etc. that have no such commitments, to just share the tip of the iceberg.

    Please see the thread on DORBA about this race before giving Tavernini any more money. Race Promoters like him don't need to be allowed to continue fleecing and disappointing the mountain bike community.

    http://www.dorba2.com/forum/racing/Ultracentric%202009


    Here is a message from Rich S., president of DORBA, which can be seen here:

    Ultracentric Race at Northshore

    Normally, as President of DORBA, I am writing to help promote and advocate cycling events and activities in our area and on the trails that our members volunteer to build and maintain. It’s a big part of what we are about as an organization. However, when an event threatens to make the relationship between a landowner and DORBA more problematic, and could threaten public access to that trail in the future, as an organization we must take a strong position against those type of events.

    Recently “The Ultracentric Experience” was a thread started to promote an event being held on the Northshore trail. The feedback on last year’s event and promoter went downhill fast with many of our members claiming mismanagement of the event and even unpaid winnings to those that were promised such. In many cases this can be attributed to “misunderstandings” or “sour grapes” and many of those issues were handled and resolved by the Race Director. However, there were some things about this situation that caused us to have even deeper concern about this event.

    When an activity is held on a DORBA maintained trail and with a landowner (in this case the Army Core of Engineers, ACOE) that DORBA has diligently worked to create a long standing and positive relationship with, as an organization, we cannot condone any activity, event, or race that does not have the following in place:

    1. Written permission from the landowner in the form of a permit or other document,

    2. Written proof of insurance for hosting the event, and copies of that insurance in the possession of the landowner and DORBA,

    3. A written plan to help and assist DORBA Trail Stewards in the repair efforts to bring the trail back up to conditions prior to the event.

    Additionally, any public claims of sanctioning by USAC or other sanctioning bodies, when that sanctioning does not in fact exist, could also reflect poorly upon DORBA because of our relationship with USAC, even though DORBA has nothing to do with the event.

    I think it is important to bring these to your attention as there has been a lot of discussion about the Ultracentric Experience event being held at the Northshore trail. DORBA is not in any way affiliated with this event, nor will be in support of any event that does not have a minimum of the above listed criteria in place.

    As the organization that is responsible for the stewardship of the Northshore trail, we do have a vested interest in how events are run. I and the Board both felt that it was important to communicate this to you as members and volunteers that help to keep public access to the Northshore trail available and as a destination location for the North Texas community. Our primary mission is to provide for the enjoyment of trails and land access for our members and the public. The current state of this event poses a threat to that mission.

    Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

    Rich

    President, Dallas Off-Road Bicycle Association
    -Porkchop

  48. #48
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    The 2009 UltraCentric MTB race at Murrell Park (NorthShore) IS legit, sanctioned, insured, approved and on board with everyone concerned including both ACOE and USAC.

    The event IS ON for those who are interested in racing. The course has been adjusted to work within the confines of the current trail and is a single track loop to insure the safety of the racers for the event. The final edits are being made at this moment.

    Onsite registration will be available up until 30 minutes prior to the start of each event; cash only accepted. All racers must have a current racing license to be checked onsite by the racing official prior to the start of each event.

    The prize winnings have all been clearly posted and YES even modified from last year to better insure money to those who place in their respective categories. The prize amounts are directly related to the amount of racers per each category; the more racers that enter, the more money to pass out. All winnings are to be paid immediately following the event at the awards ceremony.

    Anyone who wants to whine and complain can go away!

    GET YOUR BIKE ON ! ! !

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    The 2009 UltraCentric MTB race at Murrell Park (NorthShore) IS legit, sanctioned, insured, approved and on board with everyone concerned including both ACOE and USAC.

    The event IS ON for those who are interested in racing. The course has been adjusted to work within the confines of the current trail and is a single track loop to insure the safety of the racers for the event. The final edits are being made at this moment.

    Onsite registration will be available up until 30 minutes prior to the start of each event; cash only accepted. All racers must have a current racing license to be checked onsite by the racing official prior to the start of each event.

    The prize winnings have all been clearly posted and YES even modified from last year to better insure money to those who place in their respective categories. The prize amounts are directly related to the amount of racers per each category; the more racers that enter, the more money to pass out. All winnings are to be paid immediately following the event at the awards ceremony.

    Anyone who wants to whine and complain can go away!

    GET YOUR BIKE ON ! ! !

    Nice scrambling. You weren't on the USAC schedule until today, and even now you're only listed as pending. You still cannot claim to be "legit, sanctioned, insured and approved" until, well, you're actually approved.

    You have a lot of work to do before you've got your ducks in a row. Many important things should have been done long, long ago. And promising the presence of people you haven't asked yet? Planning an event BEFORE receiving the ACOE's permission? Shameful. There are even contradictions between what you're saying now, and what's in type on your website. Which rules will you follow?

    Produce your permission and trail plan to DORBA in writing, or it's just your word, which doesn't seem to be worth much.

    Don't serve up a steaming helping of disappointment like you did last year.
    -Porkchop

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    Being part of the BMW club doesn't make you faster on your bike.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Being part of the BMW club doesn't make you faster on your bike.
    Tell me more about this DORBA hotshot team.

  52. #52
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    sup Yater!
    TREK EX9 27.5

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    2009 Gary Fisher Rig

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Anyone who wants to whine and complain can go away!
    Y'know, man, we would just "go away", except we don't want to see our friends screwed again this year, and we don't want to see our trails destroyed--trails that we've built, maintained and ride day in and day out.

    We don't want to anger the landowners, and we don't want to realize the aftermath if, god forbid, anyone were to get injured in a non-sanctioned race without proper insurance.

    There's a right way and a wrong way to do this. You are doing the latter, and everyone knows it.
    Last edited by Johnnyis138; 11-10-2009 at 08:25 AM.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    The 2009 UltraCentric MTB race at Murrell Park (NorthShore) IS legit, sanctioned, insured, approved and on board with everyone concerned including both ACOE and USAC.

    The event IS ON for those who are interested in racing. The course has been adjusted to work within the confines of the current trail and is a single track loop? to insure the safety of the racers for the event. The final edits are being made at this moment.

    Onsite registration will be available up until 30 minutes? prior to the start of each event; cash only accepted. All racers must have a current racing license to be checked onsite by the racing official prior to the start of each event.

    The prize winnings have all been clearly posted and YES even modified from last year to better insure money to those who place in their respective categories?. The prize amounts are directly related to the amount of racers per each category; the more racers that enter, the more money to pass out. All winnings are to be paid immediately following the event at the awards ceremony.

    Anyone who wants to whine and complain can go away!

    GET YOUR BIKE ON ! ! !
    Very interesting post sancho! Sounds like a lot of changes from what you guys have advertised.

    Just a couple of questions:

    1. I though the north shore trail was a OUT and BACK trail? Have you made a loop out of the trail? Can I get a map of the course as well?
    2. The website clearly states NO ONSITE REGISTRATION. Have you since changed this and if it has been changed, WHY?
    3. Whats the Dorba HOT SHOT team?
    4. If there are any other changes to the race, will the be posted on the race website?

    Just want to get the requested info since the website says one thing and you state another. $130.00 dollars is a lot of $$$$ to be dropping on a race that has a lot of conflicting info.

    A quick reply would be nice since the race is this weekend.

  55. #55
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    Wow.

    This event couldn't sound any more sketchy if the description was written in charcoal.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by VEGAS66
    3. Whats the Dorba HOT SHOT team?
    .

    DORBA is not in any way affiliated with this event.

    Rich

    President, Dallas Off-Road Bicycle Association
    Here you go...

  57. #57
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    So did this event go down or what?

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by truman
    Wow.

    This event couldn't sound any more sketchy if the description was written in charcoal.
    BWAH!

    You ran this race with no real heart
    Yeah right back at the start
    You'd already lost it

  59. #59
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    Well this thread got interesting.

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    WOW, no reponse to some easy questions that any race director, and or anyone affliated to this event would have an answer to.

    Too many last minute changes and conflicting info for such a large event = FUBAR

    You still do not have a permit from USAC and a pending permit is not a permit! Thats some serious shadiness right there when your event is 2 days away!


    GONNA GET MY BIKE ON SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnyis138
    Y'know, man, we would just "go away", except we don't want to see our friends screwed again this year, and we don't want to see our trails destroyed--trails that we've built, maintained and ride day in and day out.

    We don't want to anger the landowners, and we don't want to realize the aftermath if, god forbid, anyone were to get injured in a non-sanctioned race without proper insurance.

    There's a right way and a wrong way to do this. You are doing the latter, and everyone knows it.
    Sounds like you don’t want anyone to enjoy a race that you won’t attend due to something that happened over a year ago – and pick up the winnings you can’t win anyway! So anyone other than YOU who rides the trails is destroying them? If you are riding them day in and day out as you say - how can 48 hours of limited use cause such catastrophic issues on a trail that handles over 1,000 riders a weekend from all over the metroplex? If mountain bikers were so destructive, IMBA would have never gotten mountain bikers into National Parks and forests.

    Well, we can agree on something – don’t piss off the landowners is a good rule of thumb – that is why all appropriate paperwork has been filed not that it is any of your concern – you are not putting on a race. Yes, it is sanctioned and insured – God forbid anyone is injured and needs to have the coverage.

    We also agree, there is only one way to do this in your mind – the only problem is you are suffering from tunnel vision and you can’t see the whole picture. Maybe when you grow up, you can be a race director and stage a race for yourself. The real problem is you have no idea who you are talking to or what you are saying – only repeating misinformation and half truths.

  62. #62
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    UltraCentric Race Q & A

    Quote Originally Posted by VEGAS66
    Very interesting post sancho! Sounds like a lot of changes from what you guys have advertised.
    Just a couple of questions:
    Be glad to help you out – see below:

    1. The trail is undergoing extensive trail work by the local bike club, DORBA which has added sections of looped trail in a few areas. They have done an awesome job which is no surprise as they are a very strong club and made several great trails in the DFW area. So, NS is now much more than just an OUT and BACK trail. The loop to be used is the trail section from the MADD shelter 2.85 miles east to just before the deep creek crossing where it loops back to the shelter in a solid one way trail (hence the revised 6 mile course). If you can get a map, please send it on to me. As this trail is so new, DORBA may not even have one yet so this year the race will be quite special as parts of the trail are quite new although very well broken in at this point. In fact the only downside is it is predicted to be a very wet winter so there is a real chance (odd for Texas) that we may be forced to use the rain date.

    2. In an effort to accommodate all last minute racers (several showed up last year) we have convinced the Promoter to allow onsite registration although it will be cash only to help expedite the process. Our goal is to prove to the Promoter this is a good thing so we can add more options in the future.

    3. Simple – this was any DORBA (or NON-DORBA) volunteer who comes out for a work day even if considered an emergency work day to help make sure the trail is in superb fashion once the event is over. The misunderstanding was easy to understand as it was interpreted wrong from the way it was written just like we are sure someone will misinterpret what is being said here yet that is ok we understand there are a few stupid people in this world that tend to muck it up for the rest of us. It was intended to mean any repairs required (caused by the race) would be corrected with this offered support from DORBA, yet again, this is not necessary as Rich has clearly stated there will be no support by or from DORBA for this event.

    4. We are working on that. Everything is being worked on daily to insure a smooth race experience for all those who come out to participate or support their loved ones or team members. We expect incredible weather (remember last year? I froze my back end off and totally gave up on shifting!)

    Hey – thanks for the questions – we will continue to work towards getting you all the corrected info as quickly as we can manage to get it edited online.

    Actually there is another trail runners race this weekend – the UltraCentric is another week away – Thank God!

  63. #63
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    Hotshot Team?

    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Tell me more about this DORBA hotshot team.
    Sure - this was any DORBA (or NON-DORBA) volunteer who comes out for a work day even if considered an emergency work day to help make sure the trail is in superb fashion once the event is over.

    READ SLOWLY: NOT DURING THE EVENT

    The misunderstanding was easy to understand as it was interpreted wrong from the way it was written just like we are sure someone will misinterpret what is being said here yet that is ok we understand there are a few stupid people in this world that tend to muck it up for the rest of us.

    It was intended to mean any repairs required (caused by the race) would be corrected with this offered support from DORBA, yet again, this is not necessary as Rich has clearly stated there will be no support by or from DORBA for this event.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SporkfromKFC
    Well this thread got interesting.

    Ya - but just think how interesting the race will be by Saturday afternoon with almost perfect temps and a variety of racers all flying by on a 6 mile one way course - sheer entertainment!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo

    Ya - but just think how interesting the race will be by Saturday afternoon with almost perfect temps and a variety of racers all flying by on a 6 mile one way course - sheer entertainment!
    Oh, I'm sorry. I think maybe you got the impression that I wasn't at the total disaster that was the Erwin Ultracentric. The one where no one had my pre-registration information available despite the fact that I had a printed receipt in hand. Not a big deal, but I really enjoyed arguing with the woman at sign in when I should have been getting stuff ready. Then of course there was the various timing issues, poor measurement of the course that resulted in a team mate missing out on prize money, the dropping of the solo SS class and my favorite, making promises of prizes on behalf of a local bike shop owner that he had no prior knowledge of.

    Sorry, that's one too many of my friends screwed over by this for me to recommend anyone doing it. My advice would be that the RD reach to the people who are upset about last year's event rather than being belligerent and hoping for the best.
    wat

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    The UltraCentric Race is actually like 10 days away.

    Quote Originally Posted by VEGAS66
    WOW, no reponse to some easy questions that any race director, and or anyone affliated to this event would have an answer to.

    Too many last minute changes and conflicting info for such a large event = FUBAR

    You still do not have a permit from USAC and a pending permit is not a permit! Thats some serious shadiness right there when your event is 2 days away!


    GONNA GET MY BIKE ON SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!
    Vegass66

    Sheep are so silly aren’t they? Baa Baa – they just cry wolf all the time and really have no idea that it is their shadow that is scaring them – or maybe misinformation for this topic. If you were really involved with racing you would know many events are held with flyers that say “permit pending” yet they are permitted. The paperwork has been filed, the email confirmations have been sent and received so relax, shut up for a second and go enjoy your life.

    We know someday this will be a big event, yet dude – don’t kid yourself – this is not a big event at this point. DOBRA throws races every year that are many times bigger than this event; so don’t go get yourself in a wad. Ever heard of RAGBRAI? RAGBRAI is an acronym for Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa. Did you know they started in 1972. (Some 300 cyclists began the ride in Sioux City; 114 of them rode the entire route. A number of other people rode part of the route. Attendance was light the first year. The ride was announced with only six weeks' notice and it conflicted with the first week of school and the final weekend of the Iowa State Fair.) Now they have thousands upon thousands every year that make the trek to Iowa to do this event. Ever heard of the Texas Forts Trail Tour? Google it – first one just happened in October and it started with 33 cyclists. Watch it grow!

    Better check your calendar unless you really want to race solo – with NO winnings since the mountain bike race date(s) are November 20-21-22 (depending on event chosen).

    The UltraCentric Race is actually like 10 days away.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Be glad to help you out – see below:

    1. The trail is undergoing extensive trail work by the local bike club, DORBA which has added sections of looped trail in a few areas. They have done an awesome job which is no surprise as they are a very strong club and made several great trails in the DFW area. So, NS is now much more than just an OUT and BACK trail. The loop to be used is the trail section from the MADD shelter 2.85 miles east to just before the deep creek crossing where it loops back to the shelter in a solid one way trail (hence the revised 6 mile course). If you can get a map, please send it on to me. As this trail is so new, DORBA may not even have one yet so this year the race will be quite special as parts of the trail are quite new although very well broken in at this point. In fact the only downside is it is predicted to be a very wet winter so there is a real chance (odd for Texas) that we may be forced to use the rain date.

    2. In an effort to accommodate all last minute racers (several showed up last year) we have convinced the Promoter to allow onsite registration although it will be cash only to help expedite the process. Our goal is to prove to the Promoter this is a good thing so we can add more options in the future.

    3. Simple – this was any DORBA (or NON-DORBA) volunteer who comes out for a work day even if considered an emergency work day to help make sure the trail is in superb fashion once the event is over. The misunderstanding was easy to understand as it was interpreted wrong from the way it was written just like we are sure someone will misinterpret what is being said here yet that is ok we understand there are a few stupid people in this world that tend to muck it up for the rest of us. It was intended to mean any repairs required (caused by the race) would be corrected with this offered support from DORBA, yet again, this is not necessary as Rich has clearly stated there will be no support by or from DORBA for this event.

    4. We are working on that. Everything is being worked on daily to insure a smooth race experience for all those who come out to participate or support their loved ones or team members. We expect incredible weather (remember last year? I froze my back end off and totally gave up on shifting!)

    Hey – thanks for the questions – we will continue to work towards getting you all the corrected info as quickly as we can manage to get it edited online.

    Actually there is another trail runners race this weekend – the UltraCentric is another week away – Thank God!

    thanks for the info and you are correct. the event is not this weekend. too many races this year. hope the trail comes together like you plan and your event goes well

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    Quote Originally Posted by SporkfromKFC
    Oh, I'm sorry. I think maybe you got the impression that I wasn't at the total disaster that was the Erwin Ultracentric. The one where no one had my pre-registration information available despite the fact that I had a printed receipt in hand. Not a big deal, but I really enjoyed arguing with the woman at sign in when I should have been getting stuff ready. Then of course there was the various timing issues, poor measurement of the course that resulted in a team mate missing out on prize money, the dropping of the solo SS class and my favorite, making promises of prizes on behalf of a local bike shop owner that he had no prior knowledge of.

    Sorry, that's one too many of my friends screwed over by this for me to recommend anyone doing it. My advice would be that the RD reach to the people who are upset about last year's event rather than being belligerent and hoping for the best.
    The RD from last year HAS made repeated calls and offers and worked hard to clear last year’s mistakes - it was a tough learning curve. We live in a very imperfect world and are taking steps to help insure past mistakes are not repeated with a wider staff base and experienced race personnel.

    We would not expect ANY of your friends to take a hit - yet again anyone who has a documented concern can always talk to the RD from last year and work out a solution rather than join the BMW club. Sorry for your loss.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    The RD from last year HAS made repeated calls and offers and worked hard to clear last year’s mistakes - it was a tough learning curve. We live in a very imperfect world and are taking steps to help insure past mistakes are not repeated with a wider staff base and experienced race personnel.

    We would not expect ANY of your friends to take a hit - yet again anyone who has a documented concern can always talk to the RD from last year and work out a solution rather than join the BMW club. Sorry for your loss.
    I hope that those issues do get resolved. Everyone loves to race bikes having plentiful options nearby makes that even better. However, I'd suggest that if RT wants to make amends, he go further than offering to refund a racer's fees one the day, an offer that requires trust, of which he has none.

    I'd also suggest that you, who I'm guessing are involved in the promotion of this thing in some way, make a better effort to speak to the people (many of whom are influential in the DFW cycling community) who are upset about last year's event. That might help a lot. Or you know, keep fighting it and bolding out the incoherent final portions of your posts in an effort to be facetious on the internet.
    wat

  71. #71
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    I'll likely be out there with my 11 yr old son on race day. Riding.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Vegass66

    Sheep are so silly aren’t they? Baa Baa – they just cry wolf all the time and really have no idea that it is their shadow that is scaring them – or maybe misinformation for this topic. If you were really involved with racing you would know many events are held with flyers that say “permit pending” yet they are permitted. The paperwork has been filed, the email confirmations have been sent and received so relax, shut up for a second and go enjoy your life.

    We know someday this will be a big event, yet dude – don’t kid yourself – this is not a big event at this point. DOBRA throws races every year that are many times bigger than this event; so don’t go get yourself in a wad. Ever heard of RAGBRAI? RAGBRAI is an acronym for Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa. Did you know they started in 1972. (Some 300 cyclists began the ride in Sioux City; 114 of them rode the entire route. A number of other people rode part of the route. Attendance was light the first year. The ride was announced with only six weeks' notice and it conflicted with the first week of school and the final weekend of the Iowa State Fair.) Now they have thousands upon thousands every year that make the trek to Iowa to do this event. Ever heard of the Texas Forts Trail Tour? Google it – first one just happened in October and it started with 33 cyclists. Watch it grow!

    Better check your calendar unless you really want to race solo – with NO winnings since the mountain bike race date(s) are November 20-21-22 (depending on event chosen).

    The UltraCentric Race is actually like 10 days away.
    I may have been a little quick w/ my no response comment but

    you see my friend, i did not attack you in any way with any post, just stating the facts as they are seen. Your website says one thing ( you call it misunderstanding, but I will call misrepresentation) Just shows how childish a grown man can be and what a great way to promote a FAMILY EVENT.

    in regards to the permit. your website show that there is a permit and everything is good to go but when you look up the info on USAC it shows pending (as of yesterday)? I do race and have been racing for many years and even have dealt with the promoting of racing. You cannot advertise a race under a permit you dont have. You can advertise permit pending. You may want to update your site. Just a thought.

    Flyers are great but have yet to see one at my LBS. (acronym for 'local bike shop")

    i do thank you for your response to the trail info but am very saddened that you do not have a map of the course. As a racer, I do like to preride a course before attempting to race it. Again, hope that you can get your team together to finish the loop that you will be holding the event on

    Dont really care about RAGBRAI. I dont live in Iowa but I will check out the
    texas forts trail tour. Sounds like a fun, well thought out, put together race.

    Yeah, once again I was incorrect on the date of this event. Thank you for pointing that out in such a professional way. I am a racer and sometimes, because of so many events/races, I tend to mix up race dates and venues. Thanks you again for reminding what day this event will take place. I will be sure to mark my calendar and maybe, just maybe I might make it out for the solo race, but still am undecided.

    Happy Trails Sancho

    VEGAS
    Last edited by VEGAS66; 11-10-2009 at 07:36 PM.

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    Sollo, why aren't you in the DORBA forum defending Ultracentric like you are here?

    I heard through the grapevine that Luis, the event photographer last year, has not been paid. He says he wants nothing to do with ultracentric and sure as hell won't be there this year. Why is he listed on the website as the event photog?

    When will DORBA be removed from the ultracentric website?

    I'll be there, looking for my $500. I look forward to meeting you, Paul.

  74. #74
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    DORBA could have been a good partner in an event like this. In fact, the current DORBA president and a cadre of top local competitors where enthusiastic and trusting enough to throw down hundreds in registration last year in anticipation of a fun and well run event.

    Last years mess was last year.

    But here it comes this year being promoted on DORBA's forums and DORBA being featured as a supporter of the race. This caused us to look further into the other claims and what was found caused the board to have to take a position on the MTB portion of the event.

    I would suggest that in future year, DORBA could be very key to making something like this successful. That would start by approaching the club (as was done last year) well before the event and get things worked out as far as the venue, insurance, and promotional coordination. This year, it felt like the Ultracentric was so embarrassed by last years experience they just wanted to sneak it by the DORBA folks that had a bad experience last year.

    Live and learn.

    Mike

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    D.O.R.B.A. has also provided a Hot Shot Team
    Sollo, tell me how we misconstrued this...

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    So this is the same race that was at Erwin Park last year.

    The one where they advertised a $500 package from Richardson Bike Mart, except RBM knew nothing about it. Where the winning runner got the prize check taken out of his on the awards stand, cause he wasn't an American. Several teams froze their ass off, and raced hard for the 1st place prize of $2,000 that was never given to the 1st place team. I know alot of people that won't ever hand over money to that con man or participate in one of his events again.

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    Hmmm, I've stewed over whether or not I should post on this thread at this point. I suspect some out there will read my comments and disagree (that's fine) and some will disagree and believe I have a nefarious motive (incorrect), hopefully there will be some out there that will read this and understand why I'm taking the time to post up...

    I did this event last year as one of the 48hrs racers. With that wind on the first day and the freezing temps it made for a pretty tough event. It was a hard race but I was thankful to have had the opportunity to race for 48hrs.

    Most everyone on this forum does some kind of endurance racing, there's folks on this forum that are superstars with tons of experience and there are folks who are just beginning the endurance journey and still scratching their heads. Whatever category they fall in to... there's no racing without race events.

    Now, I will be the first to admit that there were some mistakes made by the race director last year. After the event he tried to correct some of those mistakes. Having followed this years event buildup it looks like there may be some mistakes being made in '09. Hopefully they will be corrected prior to the event. It would have been nice if there weren't any road bumps in the event history, but there were, and there will be more, because nobody is perfect, no event is perfect (at least all the events I've been to haven't been perfect).

    We are living up in Canada now, if I was still in Texas I would have been doing this event. I enjoyed the challenge, I enjoyed the other racers, it's a unique race and one that isn't recreated anywhere else.I've recommended the event to one of my athletes, he is signed up for the 48, I guess I will have to live it vicariously through him. I feel confident the event staff/volunteers will do their best on the day of, I bet there will be glitches on race day, all races have them, managing distractions is part of racing.

    I don't want anyone out there with legitimate beefs to think I'm disrespecting their issues, I'm not. Those things are between you and the race director and staff. For racers like me, I just want to race. When you do the math, racing for 48hrs at just under $3 an hour seems like a decent return on investment.

    Lastly, in case there is anyone wondering what's motivating me to write this... No, I'm not being paid by the event staff to promote it. Nobody asked me to do this. There is nothing in any of this for me other than the hope that another endurance event doesn't get lost to the racing community. If you want to counter-point any of this, or debate matters directly with me on this thread I'll do my best to respond in a timely fashion. Just be sure you know why you are debating with me, 'cause remember, I ain't the race staff, I'm just a racer.

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    Good post, Shaun. The idea behind the ultracentric has potential. Big payouts, 48hr race, well supported. If the race director had been honest, and told us that there was no payout/prize, I would have raced anyway. The fact that the guy has been evasive and flat-out full of $hit is the reason he's driving this event into the ground. He lied to me multiple times on the phone and again when we met him at the registration table. Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Good post, Shaun. The idea behind the ultracentric has potential. Big payouts, 48hr race, well supported. If the race director had been honest, and told us that there was no payout/prize, I would have raced anyway. The fact that the guy has been evasive and flat-out full of $hit is the reason he's driving this event into the ground. He lied to me multiple times on the phone and again when we met him at the registration table. Why?
    Thx Yater.

    Yeah, it's a shame that happened last year. Hopefully some lessons were learned and this year goes smoother. I guess we will all find out in a couple of weeks.

    I actually thought about flying down to do the race but I had already committed to some other things. I can tell you for sure the weather down there is waaaaay more fun than it is up here right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Sollo, why aren't you in the DORBA forum defending Ultracentric like you are here?

    I heard through the grapevine that Luis, the event photographer last year, has not been paid. He says he wants nothing to do with ultracentric and sure as hell won't be there this year. Why is he listed on the website as the event photog?

    When will DORBA be removed from the ultracentric website?

    I'll be there, looking for my $500. I look forward to meeting you, Paul.
    All we are doing here is spreading the word of an upcoming race and answering any questions we can to help racers get the facts. Should I be on the DORBA forum? Why and why discuss anything heard through the grapevine? Hearsay is not a concern here, only the facts of the current race and if someone has an issue with last year we recommend the deal directly with last year’s RD. If we can be of help at some point, we will help coordinate this yet for now our goals are focused on the race at hand. Why does it say rain and yet the sun is shining? Crazy world we live in, yet we do not have direct access to the website, we had nothing to do with the website and we are working with the Promoter to clarify the website. It does take time and sometimes it is painful, yet we are working to correct these things. We truly hope your visit to the UltraCentric Race will be rewarding and you can finally put last year to bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo, with others
    DORBA could have been a good partner in an event like this. In fact, the current DORBA president and a cadre of top local competitors where enthusiastic and trusting enough to throw down hundreds in registration last year in anticipation of a fun and well run event.

    Last years mess was last year.

    But here it comes this year being promoted on DORBA's forums and DORBA being featured as a supporter of the race. This caused us to look further into the other claims and what was found caused the board to have to take a position on the MTB portion of the event.

    I would suggest that in future year, DORBA could be very key to making something like this successful. That would start by approaching the club (as was done last year) well before the event and get things worked out as far as the venue, insurance, and promotional coordination. This year, it felt like the Ultracentric was so embarrassed by last years experience they just wanted to sneak it by the DORBA folks that had a bad experience last year.

    Live and learn.

    Mike
    Thanks for the thoughts – we couldn’t agree more with your final statement “live and learn” although on the DORBA forum there are 14 plus pages of people not wanting to let go, or “live and learn”. As we were not involved earlier this year, we can’t change what was done or in play only moving forward with what we have to work with. We will work doubly hard to stay on top of everything as it comes at us to insure the success of the race for the racers, spectators and support people. DORBA was only mentioned as support for the trails based on what Prez Rich told Robert he would or could do – nothing more. We do not believe there was any sneaking around another than trying to avoid the pack of wolves at the door blowing everything out of proportion and not being an adult and dealing with personal situations one on one with the RD of last year. UltraCentric embarrassed would be putting last year mildly we are sure. We all know it is much easier to beech, whine & moan (BMW) than to actually work towards an amicable solution. Again, thanks for the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Sollo, tell me how we misconstrued this...
    Misconstrued - answered in an above post.

    If you are asking why it was stated on the UltraCentric website (like without real support) Prez Rich told Robert told Robert he would or could do – nothing more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by staylor
    Hmmm, I've stewed over whether or not I should post on this thread at this point. I suspect some out there will read my comments and disagree (that's fine) and some will disagree and believe I have a nefarious motive (incorrect), hopefully there will be some out there that will read this and understand why I'm taking the time to post up...

    I did this event last year as one of the 48hrs racers. With that wind on the first day and the freezing temps it made for a pretty tough event. It was a hard race but I was thankful to have had the opportunity to race for 48hrs.

    Most everyone on this forum does some kind of endurance racing, there's folks on this forum that are superstars with tons of experience and there are folks who are just beginning the endurance journey and still scratching their heads. Whatever category they fall in to... there's no racing without race events.

    Now, I will be the first to admit that there were some mistakes made by the race director last year. After the event he tried to correct some of those mistakes. Having followed this years event buildup it looks like there may be some mistakes being made in '09. Hopefully they will be corrected prior to the event. It would have been nice if there weren't any road bumps in the event history, but there were, and there will be more, because nobody is perfect, no event is perfect (at least all the events I've been to haven't been perfect).

    We are living up in Canada now, if I was still in Texas I would have been doing this event. I enjoyed the challenge, I enjoyed the other racers, it's a unique race and one that isn't recreated anywhere else.I've recommended the event to one of my athletes, he is signed up for the 48, I guess I will have to live it vicariously through him. I feel confident the event staff/volunteers will do their best on the day of, I bet there will be glitches on race day, all races have them, managing distractions is part of racing.

    I don't want anyone out there with legitimate beefs to think I'm disrespecting their issues, I'm not. Those things are between you and the race director and staff. For racers like me, I just want to race. When you do the math, racing for 48hrs at just under $3 an hour seems like a decent return on investment.

    Lastly, in case there is anyone wondering what's motivating me to write this... No, I'm not being paid by the event staff to promote it. Nobody asked me to do this. There is nothing in any of this for me other than the hope that another endurance event doesn't get lost to the racing community. If you want to counter-point any of this, or debate matters directly with me on this thread I'll do my best to respond in a timely fashion. Just be sure you know why you are debating with me, 'cause remember, I ain't the race staff, I'm just a racer.
    Shaun,

    We will miss ya man! YOU are a ROCK! We got to ride with you a bit before you raced and watched you race several laps. Watch for next year – you are welcome back anytime!

    I am blown away with your post and want to thank you! We also raced (if you can call it that), yet not near what you did. It was special just to be on the same trail as you. Not so sure if most racers get it – anyway you are so right in mistakes were made and we are working to resolve them as they appear including the relationship between local cyclists.

    Good luck wherever you are racing!

    Sollo

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo

    READ SLOWLY: NOT DURING THE EVENT

    .
    Read slowly....from your fvcking website:

    D.O.R.B.A. has also provided a Hot Shot Team to safely address any trail maintenance that may arise during the course of The Ultra centric


    The problem isn't the event itself....it's $hit like this and the arrogance of the race crew. You posted this $hit on the website. I'm not making it up. I'll find you at the race and you can explain to me how I'm misunderstanding this stuff. I'm getting tired of your mouth.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    ...As we were not involved earlier this year, we can’t change what was done or in play only moving forward with what we have to work with. We will work doubly hard to stay on top of everything as it comes at us to insure the success of the race for the racers, spectators and support people. ... dealing with personal situations one on one with the RD of last year. UltraCentric embarrassed would be putting last year mildly we are sure...
    It sounds like you're hinting that there's a new guard in place this year. If that's true, why not come out and say it?

    1. Who are you... what's your name? What position do you serve for the UltraCentric Experience?

    2. Who is the RD this year?

    3. Who was the RD last year?

    4. Who is the "Promotor" this year?

    5. Who was the "Promotor" last year?

    6. Why do you not have access to, and why have you had "nothing to do with," the website advertising the race?

    One more question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    If you are asking why it was stated on the UltraCentric website (like without real support) Prez Rich told Robert told Robert he would or could do – nothing more.
    7. What does this mean? It's tough to say, but it sounds like you're claiming that Rich specifically offered trail help to the Ultracentric in some way. Is that what you're saying?


    These aren't attacks, just simple questions. If there is a different team in charge this year than last year, you might avoid a lot of heartache by leading with that information. Even those of us who feel disappointed with last year's race would love to see something like this done right.
    -Porkchop

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Read slowly....from your ****ing website:

    D.O.R.B.A. has also provided a Hot Shot Team to safely address any trail maintenance that may arise during the course of The Ultra centric

    The problem isn't the event itself....it's S hit like this and the arrogance of the race crew. You posted this S hit on the website. I'm not making it up. I'll find you at the race and you can explain to me how I'm misunderstanding this stuff. I'm getting tired of your mouth.
    Yater,

    You are one pissed off dude! Change your focus, relax and let go – life is way too short to get this wrapped up in a misinterpretation of something that was said that is being changed anyway! Let it go – Rich has overruled and publicly stated there will be NO DORBA support, so why are you so worked up over the past regardless of what it said?

    Before we reply you should understand one thing here – you do NOT know who I am and we did NOT post anything on the UltraCentric website. In your own post you just lied as we had nothing to do with it - not to mention you are extremely rude to be talking to someone who you do not even know.

    I will explain it again – in a very simplistic way to once again help remove any miscommunication or misinterpretation for you and anyone else who may be confused. It is the way it is written, not the intent of what was written.

    Any trail maintenance issues that arise throughout the course of the race, due to the race itself (i.e. caused by the racers during the event) yet notwithstanding an act of God (i.e. drought, rain or even flood) then DORBA (based on a prior verbal commitment from Rich) would in fact have a work day (hot shot crew) to make any necessary repairs to the trail ONCE THE EVENT IS OVER.

    YOU DON’T MAKE TRAIL REPAIRS DURING THE COURSE OF AN EVENT ! ! !
    There will be solo mountain bike racers on the trail for 48 hours straight and there will be NO trail work done while they are racing, so once they are finished (everyone else is also finished) and the EVENT IS OVER, then and only then can ANY repair work required be carried out IF any trail work is even needed.


    This isn’t difficult now is it?

    Yet again, TO CLARIFY, this is not necessary as Rich has clearly stated there will be NO support by or from DORBA for this event. Period!

    You really make a person wonder if you ever raced a day in your life – even racers know while the race is ongoing, you don’t bring in a “hot shot crew” in the middle of a race to fix a pot hole! Use your brain for once!

  88. #88
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    Paul Sollenberger?

    So what you meant to say was: "We'll hold this race on DORBA trails, whether they like it or not, and they will repair the damage when it's over."

    I don't expect to see you out there doing paydirt after the race. Keep running your mouth and see how that works out for you.

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    I think that Robert Tavernini=Paul Sollenberger=Sollo. Way to represent, dude!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PBnJ
    It sounds like you're hinting that there's a new guard in place this year. If that's true, why not come out and say it?

    1. Who are you... what's your name? What position do you serve for the UltraCentric Experience?

    One more question...

    7. What does this mean? It's tough to say, but it sounds like you're claiming that Rich specifically offered trail help to the Ultracentric in some way. Is that what you're saying?


    These aren't attacks, just simple questions. If there is a different team in charge this year than last year, you might avoid a lot of heartache by leading with that information. Even those of us who feel disappointed with last year's race would love to see something like this done right.
    Brian – It IS coming – everything in good time.

    Acknowledged, the race is less than two weeks away and there is much to do. Now is not the time to start parading around strutting oneself – it is time to get the race on and to insure the safety of the racers, spectators, support. None of this would be a question had we been involved 6 months ago – we cannot change the past – only deal with now and the future. Good luck in whatever choice you make.

    We do appreciate your concerns, yet we are not on trial, we are not running for office, we are simply putting on a MTB race that starts in nine days – and we could use about 3-4 months to promo this thing!

    ps: In answer to number seven – YES! YES! DECISIVELY YES!

    It IS going to be done right!

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    There is no "new guard". Robert Tavernini called me a few weeks ago to discuss the race. He is the race director this year. This race is an afterthought to him. The Ultracentric webpage hadn't been updated since last november....until 2 weeks ago.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Quote Originally Posted by PBnJ
    It sounds like you're hinting that there's a new guard in place this year. If that's true, why not come out and say it?

    1. Who are you... what's your name? What position do you serve for the UltraCentric Experience?

    2. Who is the RD this year?

    3. Who was the RD last year?

    4. Who is the "Promotor" this year?

    5. Who was the "Promotor" last year?

    6. Why do you not have access to, and why have you had "nothing to do with," the website advertising the race?

    One more question...

    7. What does this mean? It's tough to say, but it sounds like you're claiming that Rich specifically offered trail help to the Ultracentric in some way. Is that what you're saying?


    These aren't attacks, just simple questions. If there is a different team in charge this year than last year, you might avoid a lot of heartache by leading with that information. Even those of us who feel disappointed with last year's race would love to see something like this done right.
    Brian – It IS coming – everything in good time.

    Acknowledged, the race is less than two weeks away and there is much to do. Now is not the time to start parading around strutting oneself – it is time to get the race on and to insure the safety of the racers, spectators, support. None of this would be a question had we been involved 6 months ago – we cannot change the past – only deal with now and the future. Good luck in whatever choice you make.

    We do appreciate your concerns, yet we are not on trial, we are not running for office, we are simply putting on a MTB race that starts in nine days – and we could use about 3-4 months to promo this thing!

    ps: In answer to number seven – YES! YES! DECISIVELY YES!

    It IS going to be done right!

    Actually, you sort of are on trial. When you try to get something out of a hole and resurrect it, you have to do some climbing. This thread is full of posters, and readers, who already don't trust the UE, for many different reasons.

    If you're not willing to be upfront about how it's being run this year, and who's running it, and why it'll be different, then guess what... the verdict is in.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Ultracentric results?-sollo.jpg  

    -Porkchop

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Paul Sollenberger?

    So what you meant to say was: "We'll hold this race on DORBA trails, whether they like it or not, and they will repair the damage when it's over."

    I don't expect to see you out there doing paydirt after the race. Keep running your mouth and see how that works out for you.
    What Damage ?!?!?!?!?!?

    You have NO clue Yater! NONE! You ASSUME there will be damage – yet look back at ALL the races DORBA has put on at local trails and stop and think about how few work days were needed to correct the trails due to years of racing.

    PayDirt? That is a TMBRA points system for TMBRA racers – NOT DORBA volunteers doing trail work earning “Superdude” hours for FREE schwag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    I think that Robert Tavernini=Paul Sollenberger=Sollo. Way to represent, dude!
    Still wrong - Guess again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    There is no "new guard". Robert Tavernini called me a few weeks ago to discuss the race. He is the race director this year. This race is an afterthought to him. The Ultracentric webpage hadn't been updated since last november....until 2 weeks ago.
    Where were you last year? Did you check out the website last year prior to the race at Erwin? You are so very stupid you have convinced yourself you are right. Try again!

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    I am really just stunned at the lack of professionalism that is being demonstrated here by someone who is, as far as I know, supposed to be involved in the set-up and running of this race. I am also just aghast at the sheer capacity of outright lies that this person, along with Robert Tavernini, have told so many people not only last year, but in regards to the race this year. I have spoken to three different people, all friends of mine (including Rich), who have told me they have been approached by RT in attempts to either make them RD of this race, or to try to goad them into supporting this race. All of them were present at Erwin for last year's Ultracentric, and would have nothing to do with it. After last year's amazing miscommunication/misunderstanding/lies about RBM and the prize packages, I do not blame them at all for declining to support this event at all.

    I am also just extremely put out that these people are STILL claiming that Rich has stated that Dorba will be available to help take care of the trail post-race. Of course Dorba will, because this is a Dorba-maintained trail and they won't sacrifice their own enjoyment of the trail because someone else is rude enough to infringe on their space without permission... but I have heard Rich speak to my face, and read his post on Dorba in regards to this event, and he in NO way, shape, or form has said ANYWHERE that he or Dorba supports this event. They are basically being FORCED to take care of this trail after the race. The claim that the trail will require no clean up post race is ludicrous.

    In all, the people running this race, particularly Sollo, have demonstrated in this thread just what type of person he is, and has done nothing but to further my belief that this event is doomed, simply due to the people running it. Sir, you are in an administrative position of power, and yet you behave with the maturity and lack of professionalism that a teenager would demonstrate. Shameful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Where were you last year? !
    This thread is awesome!


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    Hey, nice medal! Did you get a hoodie too?

    You ran this race with no real heart
    Yeah right back at the start
    You'd already lost it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Thanks for the thoughts – we couldn’t agree more with your final statement “live and learn” although on the DORBA forum there are 14 plus pages of people not wanting to let go, or “live and learn”. As we were not involved earlier this year, we can’t change what was done or in play only moving forward with what we have to work with. We will work doubly hard to stay on top of everything as it comes at us to insure the success of the race for the racers, spectators and support people. DORBA was only mentioned as support for the trails based on what Prez Rich told Robert he would or could do – nothing more. We do not believe there was any sneaking around another than trying to avoid the pack of wolves at the door blowing everything out of proportion and not being an adult and dealing with personal situations one on one with the RD of last year. UltraCentric embarrassed would be putting last year mildly we are sure. We all know it is much easier to beech, whine & moan (BMW) than to actually work towards an amicable solution. Again, thanks for the post.
    But you can't move on and prove that you've learned anything until you are willing to man up for past mistakes and demonstrate that you now know right from wrong and are establishing a pattern of behavior that rebuilds the trust you have lost. That's what live and learn means.

    The folks you are battling were the very last real customers Ultracentric dealt with. This is not "hearsay". These are the very folks you are trying to attract to build the event. They are the first ones that had faith in you and convinced others to team up and ride. To now call them "whiners" and actually attempt to disparage them only serves for you to be another shovel (yes, a tool) digging Roberts hole even deeper with your core audience. You're spending all of your energy trying to mince words on your site, defend clear "rip-offs and lies, and even disparaging core, local endurance riders rather than "spreading the word" You can't spread the word because the word has a huge stink all over it.

    You want to move on? Then stop insulting your early adopters and find out what it will take to turn them into future participants and evangelists for your event. The current strategy of hiding behind new RDs, trying to outsmart, bolding web site words, and calling your customers names will never work.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
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    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by Sollo
    Did you check out the website last year prior to the race at Erwin? You are so very stupid you have convinced yourself you are right. Try again!
    I saved both versions:



    Do you seriously want to bury yourself and the ultracentric name forever? You're well on your way.
    Last edited by yater; 11-12-2009 at 09:16 AM.

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