Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: TPI help!!

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65

    TPI help!!

    I was planning on getting the Trail king 2.4(for more cushioning) for my blunt wheelset I'm building up. I herd that higher TPI conforms to the trail better and lower TPI has better puncture resistance. Is this true, and if so would you recommend a 60 TPI or a 28 TPI tire for long endurance races. These have to be able to do at least 100 miles at a time and i don't want to replace them very often. If there are ny other tires you recommend, please tell me.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,422
    Honestly, it's pretty hard to beat a Schwalbe Racing Ralph rear and Rocket Ron for most endurance racing purposes. I'm pretty sure I see more of those tires on bikes at races than just about any other.

    Plenty of other options that undoubtedly perform just as well, but if you don't want to spend a bunch of time and energy agonizing over your choice, that would be an easy way to go.

    Personally, I use the snake skin versions set up tubeless, since I've always agreed with the old saying of "To finish first; first you must finish"!
    The drive towards achievement and success is the motive power of civilization.

  3. #3
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    2,740
    I've raced/lived/been on a bike all over the US, and there is no place where a Trail King would be considered a race tire.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    536
    I'm using the 2.4 mountain kings on my niner air carbon SS because I wanted the extra cushion with the carbon rims. Like others have said, in no way do these look like cx race ties by the conventional sense which nowadays means small knobs and light wieght. I will say that the cornering advantage with them is great enough to make up mins per lap if you have the skills to use the grip. I was also extremely surprised at how fast they rolled on the DH(not just satisfactory but great) becuase on a SS I coast a lot. So I guess the wieght is really its only shortcoming but I just can't see the point of running a super light tire to make the climbs easier if you sacrifice the best part of MTBing and that's carving corners on the descents.

    I'm not just another guy circulating the course for fun, I do have fun but I'm also their to push for the win and have been winning on this setup so far.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    @kosmo,
    I try to steer away from Shwalbe from all of the stories of elite racers at my LBS of the high price and the fact they can only use them for 3 XC races before they are bare.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    Thats why I wanted the 2.4 up front, for cushioning. I have used many XC tires for the endurance races(Bontrager 29-0, Conti Race Ring, Kenda SB8, Maxxis Ignitor, Bontrager 29-1) and they tend to loose grip after 60 miles or so, I will be sliding around turns and the times drop. I will prefer a heavier tire where I can keep a consistent pace compared to when I loose pace later in the race due to a loss in traction.
    Last edited by JustinKreger; 12-28-2013 at 11:03 AM.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    I've used a Nobby Nic on the front (Ralph on the back), so that would be similar to a Trail King up front. It really depends on the terrain you're racing; but if you've identified that you need more grip than the fast rolling tires, something like a Trail King wouldn't be bad. On the front you won't notice the slower rolling as much as the back.

    That said, the folks I see winning long races (of which I'm not one) are running super light and fast rolling tires on both ends.

    As for the TPI question, I've never compared different casings for the same tire, not sure if you'd notice the difference in handling. Like kosmo I just go for the toughest casing for a given tire (e.g. snakeskin for Schwalbe) because I'd rather not deal with flat BS.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    Its not as much needing more grip, but needing it to work in a variety of terrains. I live in Michigan so the weather changes very quickly and unexpectedly. Also, there are many types of trees in different locations making some parts dry and dusty, some parts slippery from a lot of wet leaves, and others with lots of pine needles on the ground making it soft and hard to grip. I need something that can last and can work in many different scenarios.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

    ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    Sounds like my situation (I'm in the Canadian Rockies). I run a more aggressive tire up front to handle the variety of terrain & weather - eastern slope dry(ish)/rocky/rooty, west of the divide loamier with more rain. When I'm not racing I just run something like a Trail King/Nobby Nic on both ends and call it done.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    Ive always raced on my stock wheelset that was 2200+ grams until my last 2 races. I will also be using this wheelset as my "having fun" wheel. Since I've always used super heavy wheels, I don't care a whole bunch about the weight of the tires.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

    ~ Albert Einstein

  11. #11
    Dirty South Underdog
    Reputation: Andrea138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,617
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinKreger View Post
    I was planning on getting the Trail king 2.4(for more cushioning) for my blunt wheelset I'm building up. I herd that higher TPI conforms to the trail better and lower TPI has better puncture resistance. Is this true, and if so would you recommend a 60 TPI or a 28 TPI tire for long endurance races. These have to be able to do at least 100 miles at a time and i don't want to replace them very often. If there are ny other tires you recommend, please tell me.
    Higher TPI tires will conform better to the trail (I am a big fan). They do tend to be expensive, though, and, yes, slightly less puncture/abrasion resistant. However, If you're looking for puncture resistance, it's important to also look for a tire with sidewall protection (independently of TPI). Every manufacturer has their own "name" for the extra layer of protection- I ride Maxxis tires, and theirs is called "EXO".
    If you're looking for a great, high-volume front tire, the Maxxis Ardent is pretty boss- I use the 29x2.4 in the winter because it's great in deep leaf cover (and isn't too much of a pig for hardpack & faster terrain), then I use the lighter 2.25 version during race season. I make trips to ride in Arkansas pretty often, and it's super sharp and rocky, so I always get the EXO versions of their tires, and it seems to hold up well to endurance racing- I've done plenty of 100s, middle distance, and some stage races (Trans-Sylvania and Breck Epic) and rarely have issues with flats.
    Brickhouse Blog (most known unknown)

    Just Riding Along- best internet radio show on Mountain Bike Radio

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: azjonboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,419
    I agree with Andrea, the Ardent 2.4 has monster truck grip and high volume for great cushion. I run the Ardent 2.4 up front on my rigid SS 29er in the rocks and sand of the AZ desert and also the high country pines and aspen. Set up tubeless, I run 18 psi up front and I weigh 185.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  13. #13
    Fat-tired Roadie
    Reputation: AndrwSwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    14,140
    I'm a sucker for higher thread counts. Given a choice, I'll always go 120.

    In my region, I don't have any particular problem with punctures. However, I might choose something with sidewall protection if I rode trails with a lot of loose rock - I have slashed a sidewall and do believe it's a real problem. Just not on my usual trails.

    I have a little under 500 miles each on the RoRo and RaRa on my hardtail. I can tell they're worn, (visually, anyway, I'd need to test against new ones to tell about performance) but they're hardly bare or worn out or anything like that. Certainly I have no plans to replace them, and not just because that's my 'B' bike now. My shiny new bike will get high thread-count Schwalbes too whenever my team does its order.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    I don't need puncture resistance as much as just plain durability. I will be getting the ProTection (conti's sidewall protection) on it anyway. Does the TPI have any real affect on the durability of the tire? if not, I will go with the highest TPI I can get on the tire. I am also starting to lean towards the Mountain King II, it is a very similar tread pattern but it is significantly lighter.
    Last edited by JustinKreger; 12-28-2013 at 11:01 AM. Reason: spelling error
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

    ~ Albert Einstein

  15. #15
    Fat-tired Roadie
    Reputation: AndrwSwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    14,140
    What does durability mean to you? Wear life? Resistance to incidents like slashes?
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fakie1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    898
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinKreger View Post
    @kosmo,
    I try to steer away from Shwalbe from all of the stories of elite racers at my LBS of the high price and the fact they can only use them for 3 XC races before they are bare.
    I've literally raced/used racing ralphs for multiple seasons. I too live in Michigan. They must be racing xc on pavement?

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    Durability to me is the wear life. @Fakie1999, they all race at the same races I do, the only races that are road related they do are the Iceman and Ore to Shore. I still wouldn't use Schwalbe tires unless I get a quality pair for free or really cheap.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

    ~ Albert Einstein

  18. #18
    Fat-tired Roadie
    Reputation: AndrwSwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    14,140
    ^^^
    Get the next firmer tread compound. Your tires love you long time. Nothing to do with thread count per se, but they do often go together.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JustinKreger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    65
    I ordered the Mountain king 2.4 race tire and X King 2.2 from Jenson USA earlier this week. They were on sale for 30% and 40% off. They should be at my house on the 22nd. Can't wait to get the setup finished. Thank you RojoRacing53 for the post on the mountain kings, it helped me choose greatly.
    Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.

    ~ Albert Einstein

  20. #20
    Team Livemedium
    Reputation: bamwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    678
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinKreger View Post
    Bontrager 29-0, Conti Race Ring, Kenda SB8, Maxxis Ignitor, Bontrager 29-1 and they tend to loose grip after 60 miles or so, I will be sliding around turns and the times drop. I will prefer a heavier tire where I can keep a consistent pace compared to when I loose pace later in the race due to a loss in traction.
    I've never heard of tires losing grip after 60 miles unless they are clogged up with mud. Maybe sliding and slower times are fatigue based? I've used
    ignitor front and crossmark rear and run them until nearly bald over seasons. Holding the trail is more finesse than traction a lot of the time.
    Keep trying to do the awesomest thing you've ever done.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •