Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: tire set up?

  1. #1
    viva la v-brakes!
    Reputation: FishMan473's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,102

    tire set up?

    I'm kinda new to endurance racing. I'm wondering what everyone prefers as their tire set up? Not only what tires and sizes, but weather you run tubes, UST, Stan's and so forth. And why?

    Thanks!
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    I have a car. I made a choice. I ride my bike.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mike Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    3,218
    Tubeless rims with standard tires/ Stan's. Combination works great for me.
    Mike

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    294
    Stan's NoTubes w/ Kenda Kharmas
    ....::::::::: WeRideBikes:::::::::....

  4. #4
    viva la v-brakes!
    Reputation: FishMan473's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,102
    Hmm, response has been slow. But so far, everyone runs sealant.

    I've got UST rims, so right now I'm thinking of running the Specialized Fast Trak 2Bliss, possibly with some sealant inside, most of my riding/racing will be on dry southwestern courses. I'm trying to decide between the D2 Pro version and the S-Works version which weighs 130 g less, but costs $67 retail, yikes. I wonder if that 130 g lost means it's less durable?
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    I have a car. I made a choice. I ride my bike.

  5. #5
    Exactly 1/2 of 2-Epic
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473
    Hmm, response has been slow. But so far, everyone runs sealant.

    I've got UST rims, so right now I'm thinking of running the Specialized Fast Trak 2Bliss, possibly with some sealant inside, most of my riding/racing will be on dry southwestern courses. I'm trying to decide between the D2 Pro version and the S-Works version which weighs 130 g less, but costs $67 retail, yikes. I wonder if that 130 g lost means it's less durable?
    Kenda voids any warranty if sealant is used.

    I recently used an s-works fast trak (non-tubeless) - it was right around 500g - and used it tubeless ala stans. I basically wore it out the past month of training, but liked it so well I got the 2bliss version for racing. heavier, but I trust them more. The 500g tire proved to be bulletproof though, it just seemed too light to be trustworthy!

    In any case, I just pick the tire for the terrain and run it tubeless. If I can't run it tubeless for some reason (bonty 29er tires for example) that tire gets the thumbs down. In 4 years of racing with tubeless, the only time I've had a flat was when first riding 29ers with tubes last year.

    Stan is the man when it comes to flat free riding.
    Dave

    Anything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.

    2 Epic

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: trail717's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Kenda voids any warranty if sealant is used.

    I In 4 years of racing with tubeless, the only time I've had a flat was when first riding 29ers with tubes last year.

    Stan is the man when it comes to flat free riding.
    I also like Stans especially for everyday riding, flat free and no worries. However I am wondering about achieving lower rolling resistance for long non-technical endurance climbs and flat fireroads with higher pressure and tubes.

    I know higher pressure is ‘old-school’ and a handling/comfort compromise, but with a FS bike and HOURS of climb/flats time vs. relatively SHORT descent/technical time?

    Any endurance racers using a higher psi + tubes approach rather than the lower pressure required with Stans?

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    91
    What did the tubeless version weigh of that tire?
    [
    QUOTE=hairball_dh]Kenda voids any warranty if sealant is used.

    I recently used an s-works fast trak (non-tubeless) - it was right around 500g - and used it tubeless ala stans. I basically wore it out the past month of training, but liked it so well I got the 2bliss version for racing. heavier, but I trust them more. The 500g tire proved to be bulletproof though, it just seemed too light to be trustworthy!

    In any case, I just pick the tire for the terrain and run it tubeless. If I can't run it tubeless for some reason (bonty 29er tires for example) that tire gets the thumbs down. In 4 years of racing with tubeless, the only time I've had a flat was when first riding 29ers with tubes last year.

    Stan is the man when it comes to flat free riding.[/QUOTE]

  8. #8
    viva la v-brakes!
    Reputation: FishMan473's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,102
    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    Any endurance racers using a higher psi + tubes approach rather than the lower pressure required with Stans?
    One of the advantages of going tubeless is the reduction of rolling resistance brought on by eliminating the tube. With tubed tires some of your energy is lost due to friction between tubes and tires, it just ends up as heat. With tubeless set ups, you don't loose any energy that way.

    Higher pressures will indeed reduce rolling resistance, so you'll just need to compromise that with the comfort and control you get with lower tire pressures.

    The primary reason you reduce rolling resistance by increasing tire pressure is because you reduce the amount the rubber of your tire deflects as it passes over the ground. Apparently this deflection requires a fair amount of energy. I have heard of at least one recent study that suggest larger volume tires need to deflect less and thus have lower rolling resistance. This is one of the arguments in favor of 29" tires, those of us running 26" tires will just need to look for wider/taller tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marky Mark
    What did the tubeless version weigh of that tire?
    Specialized is remarkably honest about tire weights here's what they claim:

    FAST TRAK S-WORKS 2BLISS: 628 g
    FAST TRAK D2 PRO 2BLISS: 765 g
    FAST TRAK S-WORKS D2: 540 g
    FAST TRAK PRO D2: 550 g
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    I have a car. I made a choice. I ride my bike.

  9. #9
    TEAM TOPEAK - ERGON
    Reputation: KERKOVEJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,061

    My tire get'up

    As for rims...
    Just a normal rim with a Velox rim strip

    As for tubes...
    Maxxis ultralights

    As for tires...
    Maxxis Lasrsen TT in 2.0
    Maxxis ADvantage in a 2.1
    Maxxis CrossMark in 2.1

    When picking my equipment I go for durablitiy and functionality. The lighter I can get it the better...but not stupid light. I like to have the peace of mind that my tires will hold up. Hence the reason for the heavier tires over the ultra-light bling bling tires . I go for a 2.0 tire for comfort, handling, and durablity. The key is to find a tire that rolls fast, but also hooks up and is durable. The tires listed above are my weapons of choice.

    Happy rubber hunting.

    Huh, huh. He said rubber

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kretzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    408

    tires

    I just converted one WCS wheelset with Ritchey tires to tubeless with Stans and it worked great. Saved some weight too. I plan to convert my other wheels soon.

    For fast, hardpack courses without a lot of gnarly descending (think Sea Otter, Temecula) I love the Innovader 2.0. Rolls super fast, and mine have held up superbly - 2 solo 24s and a 12 hour on the SAME PAIR OF TIRES. I am kinda light at 140 so take that helps me a little with the durability.

    For gnarlier terrain I like the WCS ZED Race 2.1. Also pretty light but they have held up really well for me.


    I run a set of Ritchey's Pro Z-Max for all around training, they are 2.35 tankers but they are forgiving and grip well in just about anything.

    Cheers,
    Karl Etzel
    Silicon Valley Cycling Center - Premium Custom Bikes
    Bike fitting specialists for road & MTB
    BikeConcierge

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SScheetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473
    One of the advantages of going tubeless is the reduction of rolling resistance brought on by eliminating the tube. With tubed tires some of your energy is lost due to friction between tubes and tires, it just ends up as heat. With tubeless set ups, you don't loose any energy that way.

    Higher pressures will indeed reduce rolling resistance, so you'll just need to compromise that with the comfort and control you get with lower tire pressures.
    Does anyone know of a controlled study regarding increased rolling resistance of a tubed tire? I can see how a tubed tire would increase rolling resistance vs. tubeless; however, to what degree?

    I would guess that a tubed tire has more rolling resistance at lower pressures. At higher pressures the difference may prove to be so insignificant that it really can't be used a tubeless advantage argument. It would also be interesting to measure the difference in resistance of a talcumed tube vs. clean tube vs. tubeless at pressure ranges from 25 to 50 psi.

    Holy crap, I'm a geek!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mike Brown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    3,218
    WTB ExiWolf's in the larger size do great with Stan's and are an excellent all-around tire if you, like me, hate changing tires based on conditions.
    Mike

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    159
    maxxis TT's
    tubes, thick
    and i run about 38.5psi.

  14. #14
    viva la v-brakes!
    Reputation: FishMan473's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,102
    Quote Originally Posted by SScheetz
    I would guess that a tubed tire has more rolling resistance at lower pressures. At higher pressures the difference may prove to be so insignificant that it really can't be used a tubeless advantage argument.
    I was thinking about this on my road ride today. Logically makes sense, however on average tubular road tires roll faster then clincher road tires, and they're run at 100+ psi. Perhaps there is something in the way tubulars are built that accounts for the decreased rolling resistance, but I'm guessing it's tube/tire friction.
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    I have a car. I made a choice. I ride my bike.

  15. #15
    Exactly 1/2 of 2-Epic
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by SScheetz
    Does anyone know of a controlled study regarding increased rolling resistance of a tubed tire? I can see how a tubed tire would increase rolling resistance vs. tubeless; however, to what degree?

    I would guess that a tubed tire has more rolling resistance at lower pressures. At higher pressures the difference may prove to be so insignificant that it really can't be used a tubeless advantage argument. It would also be interesting to measure the difference in resistance of a talcumed tube vs. clean tube vs. tubeless at pressure ranges from 25 to 50 psi.

    Holy crap, I'm a geek!
    There are controlled studies - see "High Tech Cycling", second edition for some data. First chapter I believe, the section on bike/equipment selection.

    Tubeless is always going to have less rolling resistance. The "resistance" is caused by the deformation of the tire at the contact patch. Put a tube in the mix and you have deformation of tire + a tube.

    Rolling resistance on dirt is something I'm not too familiar with...but would expect that lower, not higher pressures, result in lower rolling resistance. Why? A stiff tire is going to encounter more horizontal "bump force" than a softer tire that will conform to the bump. This was part of the hoopla when Mavic came out with UST way back when. There probably are some studies on this, but I'm not aware of them. In my 29er testing, one long climb I did with very high tire pressure - it took more energy to do the climb by about 2.5%. Not very controlled and might be meaningless...but the take home point is that higher pressures lower RR on the road, but perhaps not off-road.

    If anyone has data on this, please share...
    Dave

    Anything is possible. The impossible just takes longer.

    2 Epic

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    91
    I am going with the WTB set up. Weirwolf 2.3 Race in the front and Nanoraptor 2.1 race in the rear. Stans tubeless can not be beat. Weirwolf holds corners very well and nano is just enough and very fast.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    359
    Mavic Tubeless rims, combined with Bontrager TR (tubeless ready) tires, and stans. Raced 24HOP a few weeks ago, and was amazed that I did not flat once. I am prone to pinch flats on almost every ride I do. Its like clockwork. Since going to this setup, not one flat. Two instances to talk about. In one instance, I hit a square edged ledge head on. It literally stopped the bike cold, and I promptly ran my crotch into the back of the saddle as I was way off the back. The result was a pop, and burp of about 15lbs. After nursing my groin and knee, I simply topped it off with a CO2 and continued on. Second occurance was the last lap at the 24HOP. I ran directly through a cactus trying to pass someone. I managed to do a slight bunny hop, but hit it square with the front. 10 miles later, I found the front end was loose in the turns on the final decent. My mechanic said I was down to 15psi. We topped the air off and it is still holding air to this day.

    Final word...I really like the Bontrager Tubeless Ready setup. 560 grams for the tire in a 2.2, scoop and a half of stans. Light, and I like the pattern too. Two good patterns to choose from depending upon smooth/dry or wet/loose.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SScheetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by schwing_ding
    Mavic Tubeless rims, combined with Bontrager TR (tubeless ready) tires, and stans. Raced 24HOP a few weeks ago, and was amazed that I did not flat once. I am prone to pinch flats on almost every ride I do. Its like clockwork. Since going to this setup, not one flat. Two instances to talk about. In one instance, I hit a square edged ledge head on. It literally stopped the bike cold, and I promptly ran my crotch into the back of the saddle as I was way off the back. The result was a pop, and burp of about 15lbs. After nursing my groin and knee, I simply topped it off with a CO2 and continued on. Second occurance was the last lap at the 24HOP. I ran directly through a cactus trying to pass someone. I managed to do a slight bunny hop, but hit it square with the front. 10 miles later, I found the front end was loose in the turns on the final decent. My mechanic said I was down to 15psi. We topped the air off and it is still holding air to this day.

    Final word...I really like the Bontrager Tubeless Ready setup. 560 grams for the tire in a 2.2, scoop and a half of stans. Light, and I like the pattern too. Two good patterns to choose from depending upon smooth/dry or wet/loose.
    I've changed tires and found a dozen thorns poking through with no noticeable loss of air. Those incidences you described are the major reason I go with Stan's. That Bontrager tire is nice and light. It sounds like you have a good setup. I'm looking into getting those.

  19. #19
    viva la v-brakes!
    Reputation: FishMan473's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,102
    The problem I have with running standard tires on tubeless rims is the lack of a firm seal to the rim. I ran WTB Mutanoraptors with sealant on my UST rims for about 15 minutes before a burp while landing a jump caused a crash. I won't be trying that again. So Marky Mark, I'll be interested to hear if you have success with your set-up.

    The Bontrager tires seem to be the best option if you want to run sealant for puncture protection. Good call schwing_ding, I'll definitely be putting these on my list of potentials. Are there other companies offering tubeless-ready tires? Seems like it'd be a simple thing for any manufacture to do to their tires. I mean, why not make all non-UST tires tubeless ready?
    Last edited by FishMan473; 03-02-2006 at 10:52 AM.
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    I have a car. I made a choice. I ride my bike.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3

    My tire set up

    I have been running tubed tires and low pressures (30'ish pounds some days) for a number of years and I can tell you that if you use some talc (Johnson and Johnson) in the tubes and lots of it.

    I have not had a pinch flat for a couple seasons now and each time I think about tubeless, I just can't see the point...

    btw - I am 6' 195lbs and people often comment when following how low my tires look sometimes

  21. #21
    chips & bier
    Reputation: eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,575
    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    ...Maxxis CrossMark in 2.1[/URL]
    How are you finding the CrossMarks? I used Larsens most of last season - good tires on hardpakc and loose stuff, as long as the mud isn't too bad. Are the CrossMarks comparable?

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    323
    I ran Bontrager TR's with Bontragers Super Juice all last season. Also my rims are XM819 UST's. The Super Juice didn't do the trick, I got a nice 1/8" puncture and it leaked slow enough not keeping enough pressure to keep going race pace. Then I put Stan's in and no problems. The only thing about the Stan's is you have to keep putting more in every two to three weeks. And if you notice there is a build up of latex inside the tire and guess what, it adds weight. It doesn't add alot but I would take the tire off and kinda scrape the excess away from time to time.
    Hutchinson has a new product I'm gonna try; http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp...=330&brand=114.
    Maybe that "pulp" will do the trick. They also have some new flat repair products.
    RIDE MF RIDE,
    Scotto

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.