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  1. #1
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    Time for new endurance shoes...

    As the title says I am needing a new pair of XC race shoes. I only do endurance races, and typically do long rides just for fun. I have been in Shimano shoes of some sort for many years and have been ok with them. I have wide-ish feet and like room for my feet to move around and for swelling that can occur late in solo 24 hour races. I ride SPD cleats if that is of any consideration.

    After looking at most of the new shoes out there I have narrowed it down to the Lake MX241 Endurance. I like the design concept and how they are made, but there are none in my area to try on so I will have to buy blind.

    I would like any opinions on these specific shoes good and bad. Also any suggestions for other shoes to look at before I decide. Thanks!

  2. #2
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    I go between a set of Giro VR90 lace ups and Pearl Izumi X project Pros and they work fine for me. Had Sworks prior to that and like them, just didn't like the price. I'll look at BONT or the newest Sworks shoes the next time around.
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  3. #3
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    I wear 2E running shoes in most brands/models. If there were a 3e, that would probably be spot on. But to the point/question...

    I have a set of lakes 45.5 wide 237s if I remember correctly. Verrrrrrrrrrry comfy but they also look like hell after a season. Alllegedly the 241s have stuff in places to keep them looking good. I'd also prefer the boa dials be more towards the top. I've grazed them a few times and they keep working but it seems like it's just a matter of time before something knocks them off.

    I have a pair of Bonts but wouldn't recommend them to anyone who actually gets off their bike or is even small sections of hike-a-bike happen in any of your events. Why? the lugs are bonded to the carbon tub and detach with the slightest breeze.

    I'd also second looking at the Pearl Izumi x-project. I haven't worn them for anything more than a few 4-ish hr rides so far but they're pretty comfy and the boa is on top which is small but I like.

    Northwave appears to have a wide last on several higher end models, if they're in your neck of the woods check them out.

    I've also tried shimano wides and didn't feel like they were anywhere close to a "wide" shoe but if you're comfy in their last, I'd bet the PI shoes would fit like a glove.

    good luck!

  4. #4
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    I like the X-Project Pros...a lot. I have wide-ish, short feet w/ a high instep and they have been magic. Also the customizable inserts are great for different types of feet. Didn't pay full price for them. Competitive Cyclist seems to always have them on sale.

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    The Shimano wide shoes I have used in the past have been ok, but not great. After 100 miles or so I start getting ready to take them off (but that is probably going to happen with any shoe).

    I tried a pair of the PI X-Project when they very first came out. They seemed to be very nice but were defiantly too narrow. I ended up only riding in them about 30 miles and gave them to a friend. I have not looked at them since b/c of how narrow they felt. Maybe I should re-visit them, thanks for the heads up! I have been looking at Bontrager and appreciate the heads up about the lugs. I also have been looking at the S-Works but they get spendy fast!

    I do walk occasionally as I ride and race a single speed. So walking comfort is important. Nothing worse than being in a long race and getting stuck behind someone with Eagle on a long steep climb who parks it in the 50. If I can pass I will but usually the trail is too tight to get by on the bike so time to get off and run past in the bushes.

    Thanks again guys, good stuff! Keep it coming...

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  7. #7
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    I have wide feet with a high arch and a low fore foot. Looks like shovels. Absolutely love my Lake road shoes. Just perfect.

    Off road, I've been liking my Giro Privateers 46 HV. Very comfy but heavier than they need to be. I'd go to one of their lighter models for racing.

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    Narrow heel, wide-ish forefoot.

    I've had good luck in the past with Shimano, Specialized and Pearl Izumi.

    Over the years (decades) I've tried on Sidis a few times and not gotten along with them at all.

    Currently riding Bontrager Cambions and love the fit and the weight. The only caveat is not a whole lot of sole lugs, which seems to be par for the course in this type of shoe.
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  9. #9
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    Another Lake 237W rider here, very happy with them although they do scuff up too easily. Was on Sidi Mega's for years and they were good but not designed for hike a bike very well. I tried the S-Works wide after they came out a year ago and there is nothing like them for light weight and putting power down but as it turned out they are only +5mm vs the Lake +15mm so my feet protested after 3-4 hours. Went back to the Lake's.
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    I did not realize that Lake's wide shoes offered an extra 15mm, that's sweet! Definitely on the short list, thanks for the heads up!

  11. #11
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    Those Lake 241ís are $$$! I just destroyed a pair of similarly expensive Shimano shoes in a season and a half and am reluctant to spend so much again. Are the MX 228 or 218 similar / any good?


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  12. #12
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    I have had great luck with Fizik shoes. They seem to fit my odd feet perfectly. I ran a pair of Specialized before that and for some reason fell in between two sizes.

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    I'm going to try out the Fizik Terra X5 suede this season

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    The PI X-Project 1.0 only lasted a year for me. The tightening system blew out on both shoes. I was disappointed as I was expecting more durability. I've since moved to Sidi and they are more comfortable and seem to be more durable as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    I go between a set of Giro VR90 lace ups.
    I have super narrow feet and feel like this are pretty narrow, fwiw. Particularly in the forefoot.

    Work great for me, but I doubt they would for people with wide feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timon View Post
    I have super narrow feet and feel like this are pretty narrow, fwiw. Particularly in the forefoot.

    Work great for me, but I doubt they would for people with wide feet.
    good to know, thanks

  17. #17
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    Have been going between giro terra durra and codes for long races and I gotta say that the terra durra, despite being heavier and gravity oriented, are more comfortable at hour 5 or 6.

    For breck epic where there is mandatory hike a bike they are even better.
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  18. #18
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    I've had the Lake mx241's for about two weeks now and am REALLY digging them. Have the wide lasts and the adjustability/fit is phenomenal. The only thing that scares me a little is the durability of the foam/mesh stuff. That's tbd but aside from the placement of the boa dials that's the only weak link I see (so far). Haven't done anything but trainer miles on them so far.

  19. #19
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    Lots of different feet in the world. I tried.. 7-8 pairs of shoes and was only happy in the giro vr 90. I wore them around the office all day to test them.

    The laces let me precisely wrap the front of my foot to control it. Not great to walk in but good enough, most important they give me all day comfort when riding.

    I bought a second pair around black Friday when I found my size on sale for $160.
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  20. #20
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    I was able to try on some Giro HV VR70's today and they were definitely not wide enough. My big toe was cramped as was the little toe back to about mud foot. After all my research I think I am going to roll the dice on some Lake MX 241 Endurance wide. I cant find any local to try on but I really like how they are made. I sure hope they fit! Ill update with what shakes out, thanks for all the help thus far!

  21. #21
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    I just went through this process for the same purpose, and settled on Lake MX237ís. Great fit, real leather, and super stiff, but with enough lugs on the bottom if you have to step off.


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    Right on, thanks for the info! I think that is where I'm heading...

  23. #23
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    Bont, spendy but heat moldable insoles and highly customizable.



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  24. #24
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    Have you (or anyone) actually ridden Bont shoes? They look like something Cinderella would wear.

    I just trashed a pair of Shimano XC90's in less than a season-and-a-half, so I'm wary of wimpy XC racer-boy shoes.

    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Bont, spendy but heat moldable insoles and highly customizable.



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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I'm wary of wimpy XC racer-boy shoes.
    ^^This



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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    Have you (or anyone) actually ridden Bont shoes? They look like something Cinderella would wear.

    I just trashed a pair of Shimano XC90's in less than a season-and-a-half, so I'm wary of wimpy XC racer-boy shoes.



    I prefer that my shoes fit well (which they do), appearance is a secondary consideration. But to each their own.
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  27. #27
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    Pearl Izumi X-Project 1.0. Lifetime warranty, light, comfortable for wide feet, stiff, BOA

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  28. #28
    viva la v-brakes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    I prefer that my shoes fit well (which they do), appearance is a secondary consideration. But to each their own.
    I also like my shoes to fit well. But I need a $370 shoe to last a whole lot longer than 9 months of use.

    The Bonts donít look very durable. Iíd like to know if thatís true or not.


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  29. #29
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    I have a few pairs of SIDI Dragon 4. They will accept spikes in the front which was a requirement for La Ruta this past fall. I like to support my LBS but Backcountry.com has a great return policy for shoes. They sent a few different pairs to me to try on and immediately credited me when I sent them back.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Pearl Izumi X-Project 1.0. Lifetime warranty, light, comfortable for wide feet, stiff, BOA

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    Totally agree. Love mine - got 2 pair cause I was afraid they'd discontinue them.

  31. #31
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    Time for new endurance shoes...

    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    I just went through this process for the same purpose, and settled on Lake MX237ís. Great fit, real leather, and super stiff, but with enough lugs on the bottom if you have to step off.


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    Coming back to this, since this thread popped back up, I now have hundreds of miles on these shoes, including a 24-hour race, and they are completely comfortable. No issues. The natural leather upper is really nice, and adapts to your foot. Not the most comfortable shoes for extended HABíing, but thatís not my gig anyway. Highly recommended.


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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Coming back to this, since this thread popped back up, I now have hundreds of miles on these shoes, including a 24-hour race, and they are completely comfortable. No issues. The natural leather upper is really nice, and adapts to your foot. Not the most comfortable shoes for extended HABíing, but thatís not my gig anyway. Highly recommended.


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    Thanks man! I have my LBS checking on the availability of the Lake MX 241 Endurance wide width. How do they fit as far as being true to size? Like I wear a 12 in US, a 47 to 48 in Euro with Shimano shoes, but Lake's sizing chart shows a US 12 to be a 46 Euro. What size US do you wear vs the Lake's? Did you have a chance to compare the MX237's that you have to the MX 241 Endurance shoes? I like how the 241 Endurance "lace up", it looks super adjustable. But I kinda worry about the material holding up to hard use.

    Thanks again for your help!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Thanks man! I have my LBS checking on the availability of the Lake MX 241 Endurance wide width. How do they fit as far as being true to size? Like I wear a 12 in US, a 47 to 48 in Euro with Shimano shoes, but Lake's sizing chart shows a US 12 to be a 46 Euro. What size US do you wear vs the Lake's? Did you have a chance to compare the MX237's that you have to the MX 241 Endurance shoes? I like how the 241 Endurance "lace up", it looks super adjustable. But I kinda worry about the material holding up to hard use.

    Thanks again for your help!
    I didnít look at the 241ís, as the 237ís were exactly what i was looking for. I am typically a US 10.5/Euro 44.5, but found the 44.5 regular a bit big, so I went with 44.0, and itís perfect for me. So maybe a half-Euro size down.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    I didnít look at the 241ís, as the 237ís were exactly what i was looking for. I am typically a US 10.5/Euro 44.5, but found the 44.5 regular a bit big, so I went with 44.0, and itís perfect for me. So maybe a half-Euro size down.


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    Right on, thank you!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Thanks man! I have my LBS checking on the availability of the Lake MX 241 Endurance wide width. How do they fit as far as being true to size? Like I wear a 12 in US, a 47 to 48 in Euro with Shimano shoes, but Lake's sizing chart shows a US 12 to be a 46 Euro. What size US do you wear vs the Lake's? Did you have a chance to compare the MX237's that you have to the MX 241 Endurance shoes? I like how the 241 Endurance "lace up", it looks super adjustable. But I kinda worry about the material holding up to hard use.

    Thanks again for your help!
    A little feedback on both models as I was using the 237s the past 2 (?) seasons and have the 241s as primary shoes at the moment.

    I find the 237s wider at the end of the toebox (which seems odd to me) as evidenced by the new callouses I have on my pinky and big toes. I may go up 1/2 a size for the next shoes.

    The more forgiving fabric and foam on the 241s has me worried about longevity as well but so far so good. The flap near the toe end does stick out/pop up on my fit and I'm sure it'll snag on something at some point this season. Not sure how that'll wear.

    one bad thing with the non-endurance 237s is that there's so much leather that the shoes will look rather worn by the end of the season (esp if you do hike-a-bike). Look at their newer "endurance" model which has some scuff resistant fabric (or whatever) around the toes and towards the heel - both spots I've scuffed the crap out of.

    The boa buckles on the 241s stick up more than my (last seasons) 237s. I've yet to smash them on anything but think it's just a matter of time. Might be worth carrying a spare on longer backcountry rides. ymmv

    the new version
    Time for new endurance shoes...-magura-camp-2017-intense-lake-sks-sqlab-29.jpg

    my old 237s
    Time for new endurance shoes...-img_20180226_073808.jpg

    I'll probably snag a pair of the endurance shoes just in case I have issues w/241s later this season. Had a few hotspots at 24hop but that's a pretty tame course.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    A little feedback on both models as I was using the 237s the past 2 (?) seasons and have the 241s as primary shoes at the moment.

    I find the 237s wider at the end of the toebox (which seems odd to me) as evidenced by the new callouses I have on my pinky and big toes. I may go up 1/2 a size for the next shoes.

    The more forgiving fabric and foam on the 241s has me worried about longevity as well but so far so good. The flap near the toe end does stick out/pop up on my fit and I'm sure it'll snag on something at some point this season. Not sure how that'll wear.

    one bad thing with the non-endurance 237s is that there's so much leather that the shoes will look rather worn by the end of the season (esp if you do hike-a-bike). Look at their newer "endurance" model which has some scuff resistant fabric (or whatever) around the toes and towards the heel - both spots I've scuffed the crap out of.

    The boa buckles on the 241s stick up more than my (last seasons) 237s. I've yet to smash them on anything but think it's just a matter of time. Might be worth carrying a spare on longer backcountry rides. ymmv

    the new version
    Click image for larger version. 

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    my old 237s
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'll probably snag a pair of the endurance shoes just in case I have issues w/241s later this season. Had a few hotspots at 24hop but that's a pretty tame course.
    Great info!! Thank you! How was the fit for you vs your US shoe size?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Great info!! Thank you! How was the fit for you vs your US shoe size?
    Hmmm

    I wear 44 in Hoka and Asics 2e running shoes but these are 45.5 wide. I think that translates roughly to a 10-10.5 in the runners and according to Lake i'm running an 11.5. The end of my big toes are roughly at the same part of the shoe fwiw.

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    I settled on the Lake MX241 Endurance, and I was able to pick them up from my LBS today. The fit is exactly what I was looking for, lots of room for my toes to wiggle around. The way they lace up (wrap) your mid foot and fore foot independently is amazing. I am interested to see how they hold up and feel on the bike. They are definitely very stiff, so the power transfer should be good but may sacrifice a little comfort on long rides but maybe not.

    Thanks to everyone who has given me their thoughts and experience!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    I settled on the Lake MX241 Endurance, and I was able to pick them up from my LBS today. The fit is exactly what I was looking for, lots of room for my toes to wiggle around. The way they lace up (wrap) your mid foot and fore foot independently is amazing. I am interested to see how they hold up and feel on the bike. They are definitely very stiff, so the power transfer should be good but may sacrifice a little comfort on long rides but maybe not.

    Thanks to everyone who has given me their thoughts and experience!
    ^ cool. I'm curious why you landed on the 241's instead of the 237's? I'm getting close to pulling the trigger myself and I'm between these two shoes. I'd be very curious to hear what you think of them after you go for a ride.

    I am leaning towards the 237's because I don't have heal issues, and I don't think a slightly different upper or closure will have an impact on my hot spot problems.

    I'm currently talking to a rep via e-mail, ordering soon. Thx.
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  40. #40
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    It looks like the 241ís are made entirely of the ďHelcor abrasion resistant leatherĒ, and the 237ís just have patches of this and are otherwise a softer leather.


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    We are in that crappy melt season here in Maine right now, slushy snow and mud. But I am going to do 2 hours on the trainer today and will be using the new 241's. I know that isn't going to mean much overall but I find I notice discomfort more on the trainer than on the trails. But initially the shoes fit very nice, they feel super comfortable but pretty stiff souls when walking (which I do a bit on a single speed). My main reason for getting the 241 over the 237 is the lacing system. I wanted to have more separation from the tension created around the foot from the 2 boa dials. Meaning the lower dial really isn't connected in any way to the upper by either the lacing pattern or the material that makes up the upper of portion of the shoe. I haven't seen any other cycling shoe that does that, so I wanted to try some (even though they cost me $370 after tax). I am not convinced the increase in price is really worth it over some other quality shoes, but WTF you gotta try to know.

    Ill keep this thread updated as time goes on, I hope to be riding dirt in the next few weeks even if I have to drive south to do so. Ill let yall know how they feel after the trainer ride here in a few hours.

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    Initial impression of the first few hour on a trainer, these shoes are very comfortable! The adjustability is a welcome change over traditional cycling shoes, no hot spots or excessive pressure anywhere. I look forward to getting out on the dirt with them.

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    ^ cool. Good feedback, thanks. Hopefully they work out well for you.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Initial impression of the first few hour on a trainer, these shoes are very comfortable! The adjustability is a welcome change over traditional cycling shoes, no hot spots or excessive pressure anywhere. I look forward to getting out on the dirt with them.
    Could you post a picture of youíre bare foot on the ground? I swear I donít have a foot fetish, Iím just curious if youíre any where near as duck-footed as me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    Could you post a picture of youíre bare foot on the ground? I swear I donít have a foot fetish, Iím just curious if youíre any where near as duck-footed as me.


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    I am not sure a picture would do as good of a job as the actual measurements: I am a US size 12 and 4.5" at the widest point, which is about an E width. So my foot is not "abnormally" wide, it is more preference for me, I like having wiggle room. The last year or so I have been wearing Altra Lone Peak 3.5 and elastic laces, they have really spoiled my feet! So now I am hyper-sensitive to restrictive shoes.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    I am a US size 12 and 4.5" at the widest point, which is about an E width.
    Did you end up with 46's or 46.5's?
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    Good point... size 46

    Another thing I noticed that has been different from all my other cycling shoes in recent memory is the heel cup is very supportive. I guess that is the best way to describe it, in other words it feels like it really wraps around and holds onto my heel. But not in an uncomfortable way, more like a custom fit. I feel like it allows me to run the shoe a little looser on the top boa but still not get a lot of heel slip. Of course it may be different after getting off the trainer and outside on some steep grinding climbs.

  48. #48
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    As I mentioned before, I love these shoes, but wanted to point out one area where they are not great: Extended HABíing. Even with a great fit and comfort, I get heel slippage when I am doing a lot of walking in them, particularly on chunky terrain. Iím not concerned about that; however, as I hate that kind of ďridingĒ and try to avoid much HABíing.


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    From the little I have walked in them I can see that. Some of the races I do (especially one 24 hour in particular) has a decent bit of hike a bike. I think Iíll have to figure that problem out, guess I need to get stronger & just ride more of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    From the little I have walked in them I can see that. Some of the races I do (especially one 24 hour in particular) has a decent bit of hike a bike. I think Iíll have to figure that problem out, guess I need to get stronger & just ride more of it.
    A 24-hour race with a decent bit of HAB?! My effing nightmare!!


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    The HAB in that race only comes into effect around midnight and on when you are starting to get tired. It is a 7ish mile lap course up and down a small ski mountain that has just under 1000 feet of climbing per lap. The climbing is not that bad on a single speed the first 11-12 laps, but after that some walking in key spots is pretty strategic for a non stop solo effort. That is my season opener, its a good time!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    The HAB in that race only comes into effect around midnight and on when you are starting to get tired. It is a 7ish mile lap course up and down a small ski mountain that has just under 1000 feet of climbing per lap. The climbing is not that bad on a single speed the first 11-12 laps, but after that some walking in key spots is pretty strategic for a non stop solo effort. That is my season opener, its a good time!
    I know that drill! I usually have ever a strategic "nighttime walk" section to conserve my energy.


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  53. #53
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    FWIW: feet that are shaped like this are really hard to find shoes for:
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    It looks like I can use my REI dividend to get Pearl Izumi X-Project Elite or Fizik M3B.

    Can anyone speak to the toe box width and durability of these shoes?
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    So I have a few rides on my 241's now, so far so good. Due to weather I haven't had an opportunity to do long rides or races yet, but pounding hills on my SS cross bike has been no issue. I've got 4-6 rides of 2-3 hours on them so far.

    Stock insoles are the best I've used. No hotspots yet. The uppers are super soft and supple, not that that was previously an issue for me, but notably more comfortable than anything else I've tried.

    I also like to grippy rubber soles as opposed to hard plastic on all my other shoes. These will offer much better grip/traction on both pedals and hard earth or rocks. I'm curious to see how they hold up over time?

    I'm happy with my purchase, looking forward to pounding trails soon, and very eager to try them in a long race.
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    Good to hear you are happy so far. I am still trainer bound, but have a LOT of hours on it in mine and so far I am loving them. I hope to be on dirt in the next 2ish weeks as long as we don't get any more big snows. I will up date here when I get them dirty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    It looks like I can use my REI dividend to get Pearl Izumi X-Project Elite or Fizik M3B.

    Can anyone speak to the toe box width and durability of these shoes?
    I have the x-project (mid level). I find them pretty low volume and I really wish they went to size 49.

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    Just picked up a set of Bont Vaypor G's this weekend. Going to have them molded to my feet after a few rides if there are any troublesome areas. Took them for a light gravel loop yesterday about 90 minutes, felt much stiffer than my Pearl Izumi X Project PRO and Giro VR90's, about the same as my old Sworks from 2014. The volume is definitely lower than Pearls overall but wider in the toebox I think. Boas actually have full range of adjustment instead of slammed all the way down (I have low volume feet).

    Time will tell if they'll help prevent the numb toes I got with the Pearls, but I know right now they're 120g lighter...each. Wouldn't want to walk in them much, but I never hike a bike if I can help it.
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

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    Pinkpowa: Do those Bont's have an armored toe?
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    I have a few 7+ hour rides in my shimano s-phyre xc9 shoes now. Huge improvement over the sidi capes I was using.

    Lighter, more comfortable, and much stiffer. I ride singlespeeds and am out of the saddle a lot, and wasn't aware how much flex the sidis had, which was the cause of my foot pain on longer rides. The shoes also breath and ventilate much better.

    Only downside so far is they don't seem to be built quite as rugged as the sidis.

  61. #61
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    So I just picked up a pair of the PI Project-X Elite from Bikeshoes.com, they were on sale, and offered a coupon code for another 20%-off so I only ended-up paying $180 for the pair... which is definitely more inline with my pay-grade.

    Anyway, they seem like really nice shoes, well designed. Armored toe. The Boa dial is on-top where its not going to get smashed by anything. Sole is hard rubber, not plastic. Their insole system is pretty good quality, on-par with Specialized.

    Fitwise, they would be good for an average to narrow foot. For a person with a wide toe-box like myself or the OP, they crush the toes. The 43's are the right length but much too narrow for my forefoot, the 43.5's are a bit too long and high-volume for my feet, and still a bit too narrow around the toes and forefoot.

    I've ordered a shoe-stretcher, I'm thinking hard about trying to stretch out the toe box, since I really like the shoes. I'm going to give the shoe-stretcher a test run on some older shoes before I make some non-refundable changes to the PI's though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    So I just picked up a pair of the PI Project-X Elite from Bikeshoes.com, they were on sale, and offered a coupon code for another 20%-off so I only ended-up paying $180 for the pair... which is definitely more inline with my pay-grade.

    Anyway, they seem like really nice shoes, well designed. Armored toe. The Boa dial is on-top where its not going to get smashed by anything. Sole is hard rubber, not plastic. Their insole system is pretty good quality, on-par with Specialized.

    Fitwise, they would be good for an average to narrow foot. For a person with a wide toe-box like myself or the OP, they crush the toes. The 43's are the right length but much too narrow for my forefoot, the 43.5's are a bit too long and high-volume for my feet, and still a bit too narrow around the toes and forefoot.

    I've ordered a shoe-stretcher, I'm thinking hard about trying to stretch out the toe box, since I really like the shoes. I'm going to give the shoe-stretcher a test run on some older shoes before I make some non-refundable changes to the PI's though.
    Yep, that has been my experience with the PI shoes...

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    I have a few 7+ hour rides in my shimano s-phyre xc9 shoes now. Huge improvement over the sidi capes I was using.

    Lighter, more comfortable, and much stiffer. I ride singlespeeds and am out of the saddle a lot, and wasn't aware how much flex the sidis had, which was the cause of my foot pain on longer rides. The shoes also breath and ventilate much better.

    Only downside so far is they don't seem to be built quite as rugged as the sidis.
    This has been my experience as well. Stiffer soles actually REDUCE foot pain.

    Shimano shoes (I had the previous generation) are pretty comfortable, but not at all durable.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    This has been my experience as well. Stiffer soles actually REDUCE foot pain.
    I don't disagree, but the shoe has to fit your foot and riding style. I spent good money last year on Giro Code shoes. Carbon soles and a big price tag doesn't mean it's going to be comfortable. It came with different arch supports, which wasn't my problem and none of which worked, I tried different insoles with metatarsal buttons and more cushion, didn't work either.

    I recently read an article about wide shoes, not necessarily high volume (there's a difference), and certain companies that are leading the charge with regards to comfort. It seems that people can benefit from a wide shoe even if their foot doesn't measure as "wide" on a traditional sizing device.

    If you've got foot/shoe issues it's worth a read. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...g-shoes-51670/
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    I don't disagree, but the shoe has to fit your foot and riding style. I spent good money last year on Giro Code shoes. Carbon soles and a big price tag doesn't mean it's going to be comfortable. It came with different arch supports, which wasn't my problem and none of which worked, I tried different insoles with metatarsal buttons and more cushion, didn't work either.

    I recently read an article about wide shoes, not necessarily high volume (there's a difference), and certain companies that are leading the charge with regards to comfort. It seems that people can benefit from a wide shoe even if their foot doesn't measure as "wide" on a traditional sizing device.

    If you've got foot/shoe issues it's worth a read. https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...g-shoes-51670/
    Great article, I agree with it 100% and the basis is what inspired me to start this search and thread. I found Altra running shoes a few years ago and since have wanted cycling shoes that were made similar. IMO the Lake MX241 is as close as I have found, I cant wait to ride them outside (SOON!!, mud season is here). Thanks for the post, I am going to share it with my cycling friends.

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    The width is another thing I've noticed with the Shimanos. I have narrow feet, and Sidis actually feel perfect initially, but over time on long rides the extra width of the shimanos and the ability to move my foot around is very welcome. When I first got the shimanos I was going to return them because I thought they were too wide, but I'm glad I gave them a chance!

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Great article, I agree with it 100% and the basis is what inspired me to start this search and thread. I found Altra running shoes a few years ago and since have wanted cycling shoes that were made similar. IMO the Lake MX241 is as close as I have found, I cant wait to ride them outside (SOON!!, mud season is here). Thanks for the post, I am going to share it with my cycling friends.
    Cool, I hope it helps people.
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    Interesting article. As I have mentioned earlier is this thread, I have the Lake MX237ís, and absolutely love them.

    When I was looking for new shoes at the beginning of the year, I had two requirements: the stiffest carbon sole I could find (because I SS a lot, and put a ton of force into my pedals. I donít want a shoe - and I have some - that feels like Iím in flip-flops.), and a roomy forefoot. Not a wide size, per se, just enough room for my foot not to be squished.

    I went into it not knowing about Lakeís at all, and preferring Sidi. I ordered 3 different Sidi styles, in multiple sizes, along with the Lakeís and the new Pearl Izumi X-Project Pro.

    As much as I wanted to like the Sidiís, they actually felt ďcheapĒ and plastic-y to me, and just werenít comfortable, IMO. The PIís felt heavy and bulky, and I hated them. The Lakeís were EASILY the most comfortable and noticeably lighter than the PIís and comparable to the Sidiís. I am a US 10.5/UK 44.5, and I actually had to size down to a 44.0 in the Lakeís because the regular size was so roomy.

    After 3.5 months, and about 1,000 miles, I couldnít be happier. They are super comfortable and stiff, and the real leather upper is so nice. Iíve had a few rides with a bunch of HAB, and the soles barely show any wear. Iíll post up some pics a bit later of how they look. I am sold on these shoes, and Lake, and really canít see going with a different brand/model ever again.


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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Interesting article. As I have mentioned earlier is this thread, I have the Lake MX237ís, and absolutely love them.

    When I was looking for new shoes at the beginning of the year, I had two requirements: the stiffest carbon sole I could find (because I SS a lot, and put a ton of force into my pedals. I donít want a shoe - and I have some - that feels like Iím in flip-flops.), and a roomy forefoot. Not a wide size, per se, just enough room for my foot not to be squished.

    I went into it not knowing about Lakeís at all, and preferring Sidi. I ordered 3 different Sidi styles, in multiple sizes, along with the Lakeís and the new Pearl Izumi X-Project Pro.

    As much as I wanted to like the Sidiís, they actually felt ďcheapĒ and plastic-y to me, and just werenít comfortable, IMO. The PIís felt heavy and bulky, and I hated them. The Lakeís were EASILY the most comfortable and noticeably lighter than the PIís and comparable to the Sidiís. I am a US 10.5/UK 44.5, and I actually had to size down to a 44.0 in the Lakeís because the regular size was so roomy.

    After 3.5 months, and about 1,000 miles, I couldnít be happier. They are super comfortable and stiff, and the real leather upper is so nice. Iíve had a few rides with a bunch of HAB, and the soles barely show any wear. Iíll post up some pics a bit later of how they look. I am sold on these shoes, and Lake, and really canít see going with a different brand/model ever again.


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  70. #70
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    That article is represents my fitting experience, shoe history and thoughts on the subject perfectly.

    For those of you running Lakes, where are you buying them? The closest dealer is 90-minutes from me. I'd love to try some on at an actual bike shop if I could, or barring that, order a couple different pairs online from someplace that offers free returns... but Its hard to find the 241's anywhere and there are only a few options for the 237s.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    That article is represents my fitting experience, shoe history and thoughts on the subject perfectly.

    For those of you running Lakes, where are you buying them? The closest dealer is 90-minutes from me. I'd love to try some on at an actual bike shop if I could, or barring that, order a couple different pairs online from someplace that offers free returns... but Its hard to find the 241's anywhere and there are only a few options for the 237s.
    Backcountry.com

    Free returns. I ordered 6-7 pairs in Jan, and returned all but one. I chatted and emailed with one of their "Gearheads", and explained what I was doing, and he was super helpful.


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    Despite how clunky they look, Shimano AM7 shoes are pretty damn nice. I just did true grit in a pair, which I imagine looked a little off when paired with lycra.

    They're stiff, surprising well ventilated, and the soles are great for off the bike. Plus the upper is more durable than "XC-style" shoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    ...IMO the Lake MX241 is as close as I have found,.
    I've been on the 241s for ~3-4 months and they are definitely NOT anatomically like a foot (Bont has that part covered but they're hard to find and "delicate"). The end of the toe box on these is narrower than the 237s and the seam for the strap of the forefoot boa seems to align with the widest part of peoples feet. Why is the toebox narrower up front? I dunno. Going back to the 237s (endurance model). Anyone looking for a pair of 45.5 wides?

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    Are the rubber outsoles of the 237s replaceable? I like that the rubber covers most of the shank of the shoe, I assume making it less slick on pedals and rocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babybabe View Post
    Are the rubber outsoles of the 237s replaceable? I like that the rubber covers most of the shank of the shoe, I assume making it less slick on pedals and rocks.
    This I donít know...


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    For those of you who have the Lakes, how do you think their sizing compares to other brands?

    Shimano, Specialized, and PI are what I have experience with.

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    For those of you who have the Lakes, how do you think their sizing compares to other brands?

    Shimano, Specialized, and PI are what I have experience with.

    Thanks.
    well, they have a pretty detailed way to fit their shoes so you don't have to guess.

    measure your foot

    Then use their chart to see where you fall

    or you can guess based on other brands

    I use 44w road & 45.5w mtb and 46w winter

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    For those of you who have the Lakes, how do you think their sizing compares to other brands?

    Shimano, Specialized, and PI are what I have experience with.

    Thanks.
    .5 of a Euro size smaller than Spesh, for me.


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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    well, they have a pretty detailed way to fit their shoes so you don't have to guess.

    measure your foot

    Then use their chart to see where you fall

    or you can guess based on other brands
    I've actually been emailing Lake's support, they've been very useful by the way, but the numbers he's suggesting to me for sizing are nuts.

    I wear a 43 in Shimano and Spec., he's recommending a 41.5.

    A half-size down per Waltaz's recommendation would put me at a more reasonable 42.5. I wear a 44 in their 303 winter boots.
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    fwiw, I'd try a used pair off fleabay. That way you haven't sunk $400 or whatever. Just keep in mind the different lasts they have (sport,race...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    Lots of different feet in the world. I tried.. 7-8 pairs of shoes and was only happy in the giro vr 90. I wore them around the office all day to test them.

    The laces let me precisely wrap the front of my foot to control it. Not great to walk in but good enough, most important they give me all day comfort when riding.

    I bought a second pair around black Friday when I found my size on sale for $160.
    How are you liking this shoe? Can you comment on the shape of the footbed? (do you have a high arch, a flat foot, narrow or wide, etc?)

    I'm looking for a new pair of race shoes that uses laces or velcro straps...I'm tired of replacing broken buckles.

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    47 in Shimano (almost too small in length, but not)
    46 in Lake (fits slightly longer than the Shimano 47, may have been able to go a 1/2 size down for a similar fit to the Shimano, but wanted the extra room)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    Just picked up a set of Bont Vaypor G's this weekend. Going to have them molded to my feet after a few rides if there are any troublesome areas. Took them for a light gravel loop yesterday about 90 minutes, felt much stiffer than my Pearl Izumi X Project PRO and Giro VR90's, about the same as my old Sworks from 2014. The volume is definitely lower than Pearls overall but wider in the toebox I think. Boas actually have full range of adjustment instead of slammed all the way down (I have low volume feet).

    Time will tell if they'll help prevent the numb toes I got with the Pearls, but I know right now they're 120g lighter...each. Wouldn't want to walk in them much, but I never hike a bike if I can help it.
    First Endurance race on the Bont Vaypor G yesterday after a handful of training rides <2hrs. I had them heat molded to my feet after a few rides and it definitely made a difference, got the arches lowered, heel cup tightened up a bit. Toe box was pretty good right out of the box but we molded it a bit. Took about 3 cycles to get them to really release and move to what ended up being the final position.

    50 miles of straight singletrack smashing for 4 hours, had some technical mistakes but the shoes were flawless. No sore arches, no numb toes, just laying down some of the best power numbers in an endurance race yet. Also the best my feet have felt in a long ride that I can remember. Next race is 6 hrs in late May but I think the shoe issue is resolved for me currently. If you get Bonts take the time to get them molded, definitely made a difference for me. I had some numbness and soreness prior to molding, bu they're perfect now.
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    Pinkpowa: Do those Bont's have an armored toe?
    They've got a rubber bit on the toe and the carbon soles curve around on every side of the shoe, so....yes?
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    First Endurance race on the Bont Vaypor G yesterday after a handful of training rides <2hrs. I had them heat molded to my feet after a few rides and it definitely made a difference, got the arches lowered, heel cup tightened up a bit. Toe box was pretty good right out of the box but we molded it a bit. Took about 3 cycles to get them to really release and move to what ended up being the final position.

    50 miles of straight singletrack smashing for 4 hours, had some technical mistakes but the shoes were flawless. No sore arches, no numb toes, just laying down some of the best power numbers in an endurance race yet. Also the best my feet have felt in a long ride that I can remember. Next race is 6 hrs in late May but I think the shoe issue is resolved for me currently. If you get Bonts take the time to get them molded, definitely made a difference for me. I had some numbness and soreness prior to molding, bu they're perfect now.
    been looking at the Bont but don't understand The whole heat molded process. Have to send them off or ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsills View Post
    been looking at the Bont but don't understand The whole heat molded process. Have to send them off or ?
    Nope, you just pull the cleats and insoles and put them in an oven. We used a small one made by Cuisinart maybe? I think you heat them up to 170F or so, I didn't pay attention but your Bont dealer can probably provide more instruction. I saw a few videos on youtube showing the process as well. Pretty slick, I think the Lakes can be heat molded as well?
    -DC, just some XC Bum in Sfla...

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    Yes, the lake shoes go in the oven for 5 min. at 200 degrees.

    Best served with rice and greens.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    I just picked up a pair of Louis Garneau T-Flex 2ls on clearance, anyone have any reviews on these?

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    Can anyone tell me the weigh of the Lake mx237 endurance shoe? I've searched everywhere and don't see it. Or possibly some actual weights? I'm torn between the Lakes and the Bonts

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsills View Post
    Can anyone tell me the weigh of the Lake mx237 endurance shoe? I've searched everywhere and don't see it. Or possibly some actual weights? I'm torn between the Lakes and the Bonts
    I've got a pair arriving in the mail tomorrow and will let you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post
    I just picked up a pair of Louis Garneau T-Flex 2ls on clearance, anyone have any reviews on these?
    Iíve been using the Garneau Copper T-Flex for about a year and just finished the Lumberjack 100 last weekend with them. The Lumberjack has been my longest ride with them (9 hrs, 19 mins) and I had no foot issues. I really like the double boa system as I adjust on the fly if my feat feel too tight or loose or get a minor hot spot. Theyíve been very durable (through rain, mud, snow) and are very stiff. My only complaint is that their advisors put me in a half size too big and the shoe fits a bit loose on me. That being said the boas make up for that and make it feel good.
    2018 Scott Spark RC 900 World Cup | ďIf youíre not first youíre lastĒ

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    Why do you care what your shoes weigh? Do you really think it's going to make a difference?

    Generally I would think the Lake's endurance shoes are a few grams heavier than the XC racer boy shoes, but really that's not the point. Long term comfort takes priority here.

    Work on your fitness, that's where you'll see actual gains. Making a shoe purchase based on weight means your focusing on the wrong thing.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    I've been meaning to update this thread. I now own both the Lake 237s and 241s. They're both great shoes, but if your going to spend this much money, spring the couple extra bucks for the 241s.

    The uppers are much nicer, which frankly was very low on my priority list, but it's significant. Also the moldable heal is the other noticeable difference. My heal slips out of the 237s (only noticeable while walking/hiking) but the 241 heal is molded to my foot and stays put much better.

    Comparing the two, the 241s breath much better, there's vents everywhere. There is zero water protection if that matters to you. The 237s offer a good bit more protection from the elements. The outer shell is synthetic vs leather on the 241s.

    They both have a rubberized sole which I love.

    Sizing: even though these are marketed as having a "bigger toe box" I don't notice that it's any different than my other shoes. I actually bought the 237s in Wide and really like the extra room for my toes. This is my first pair of Lakes so I can't compare it to anything, but my foot does not measure as a wide according to the sizing chart. If I could do it again I would buy the wide 241.

    Lastly I really hate the BOA closures. (my first experience with them) They don't stay tight and I end up having to reach down every 15 minutes and click them tight again. They suck. Give me velcro or plain old laces any day. Stupid.
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    Added Lake MX237 to my list of potential new endurance shoes and did some research and decided to pull trigger, had to online order though. Hopefully Size and fit workout if not I can return.

    Sizing was tough, wear a 45 wide in 303 boots but a bit loose. 43.4-44 in Giro, 44 in Shimano and Sidi. Figured I would start with a 43.5.
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Why do you care what your shoes weigh? Do you really think it's going to make a difference?

    Generally I would think the Lake's endurance shoes are a few grams heavier than the XC racer boy shoes, but really that's not the point. Long term comfort takes priority here.

    Work on your fitness, that's where you'll see actual gains. Making a shoe purchase based on weight means your focusing on the wrong thing.
    Yes, I do. Saving weight where rotating mass is involved will directly impact overall energy used. Especially over 6, 12 and 24 hour races I would think. Pretty basic math and science principles really. Would you try to run a race in mountain boots because they were the most comfortable? At any rate, yes, I was trying to get an idea of what they weigh before ordering them because I wouldn't want them if they were 300+ grams heavier than say the s-works 6. That's nearly 3/4 of a pound of rotating mass that I have to power for roughly 30,000 revolutions over a 6hr race. Yeah, I care about that.

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    I think OneSpeed's point is that weight is pretty far down the list of factors to consider for a new shoe. I'd rate them as follows:

    1) Fit
    2) Fit
    3) Fit
    4) efficiency / comfort
    5) durability
    6) weight

    Those are very different shoes that fit differently and have somewhat different intended application. If it really comes down to a couple shoes that are really down similar, fit well and meet your needs, then you might start considering weight.
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    I bought the Lake MX237's and quite like them. They fit my very wide to box pretty well out of the box (wide size). Though, as with most wide shoes I wear, there its more width and volume at the rear of the foot than I need, making that a little loose, but that's probably just with my weird duck fee.

    I like the Boa closure (though I can't say I like paying the $$$ for them), as its easy to tweak the tightness on my upper foot and lower foot on the fly (largely making up for the rear-foot volume). It took a bit getting used to but now that I just remember that twisting forward (towards the middle) makes them tighter, its good. I have had no slippage issues like OneSpeed reports.

    The shoes are also a very stable pedaling platform, its not so much about the stiffness, more that I feel like my foot is stable and pushing power down into the pedals more efficiently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I think OneSpeed's point is that weight is pretty far down the list of factors to consider for a new shoe. I'd rate them as follows:

    1) Fit
    2) Fit
    3) Fit
    4) efficiency / comfort
    5) durability
    6) weight

    Those are very different shoes that fit differently and have somewhat different intended application. If it really comes down to a couple shoes that are really down similar, fit well and meet your needs, then you might start considering weight.
    Good point. Thank you for helping me look at it a different way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I bought the Lake MX237's and quite like them. They fit my very wide to box pretty well out of the box (wide size). Though, as with most wide shoes I wear, there its more width and volume at the rear of the foot than I need, making that a little loose, but that's probably just with my weird duck fee.
    try using one of those goofy little heel pad things from Dr. Scholl or similar.

    Time for new endurance shoes...-%24-kgrhqiokpmfguejikcvbrqppurz-g%7E%7E_32-540x539-0-0.jpg

    fwiw, that's what I use in my 237s. It doesn't take all of the motion away but most.

    do the new versions use the 2-direction boa (tightening and loosening)? Asking as I'm not particularly happy with my 241s. thanks in advance...

  100. #100
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    Mr Disney:

    They do indeed have the 2-direction boa.
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