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  1. #1
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    Thoughts on Accelerade (contains sucrose & fructose) vs. maltodextrin only drinks

    So, I am finally taking the time to start to understand the dietary side of endurance racing. After seeing a link to ride424.com on here, I have found the reading to be very informative... assuming it is all accurate and not just a selling feature for Hammer nutrition. After sampling the hammer gel recently versus my old stand by GU gels, I noticed what seemed to be a big difference in performance. After reading all about simple sugars vs. polysachrides, it seems this is the glaring difference in what caused the gained performance from the hammer gel. So, now I am looking at all of my nutrient products to see what they are made of. I see my Accelerade uses sucrose and fructose simple sugars, and whey protein (read that soy protein is better during workout, whey better for recovery). It also list maltodextrin which is recommended. Also, the accelerade uses a 4:1 carb/protein ratio versus the recommended 3:1.

    I'd love to hear the thoughts of the experienced on here. I have a stock of accelerade, and bummed about the possibility of not using it anymore, however proper nutrition is very important to me and I want to make sure I tackle this correctly as I get into the endurance side of things.

  2. #2
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    Recently I switched over to Perpetuem and Hammer Gels from GUs and Accelerade and I can definitely tell a difference in longer, endurance based rides. Scientifically speaking, whether this is from the gels or the drink can not be inferred. But GUs now use maltodextrin so I really don't think there is a difference between Hammer Gels and GUs. Thus I think most of the difference lies in the drink - probably because Perpetuem contains Sodium Phosphate. (The Germans used Sodium Phosphate during the World Wars to improve endurance; the results from clinical studies are impressive, showing more of a drop in TT times than caffeine, even.) That being said, for shorter or races, or for the last 1-2 hours of long ones, I definitely consume simple sugars + caffeine through RedBull or Coffee. Hammer products might keep you going for a long clip at a steady pace, but in my experience they are not the best for surges of raw power needed to get over, for instance, the last mountain climb in a race right before the finish. If you are interested in trying a new sports drink mix, I would just buy that mix and compare that Accelerade on similar training days and see how you feel. If you want to switch, just sell the rest of you Accelerade on eBay.

  3. #3
    Topeak-Ergon Racing
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    Don't make it so complicated. Hammer's info is for selling Hammer's stuff. Accelerade's info is for selling Accelerade's stuff. What's is important then? Calories! You'll need 300-500 an hour to sustain long efforts. You can't get that all from sugar because you'll barf. You can get it all from complex carbs, but your system may not process it fast enough to get it back to sugar so it can be delivered and used by your muscles. So experiment...try so some sugar, complex, heck even a little protein if you buy into that. I personally use a mixture of a sugar drink and a complex carb (maltodextrin) powder for a total of 300-400 calories per hour (or less than $.10 per serving) and then eat solid food on top of that depending on how long I'm out.

    Oh and go find the studies these companies use to tout their 4:1 ratios and sugars are evil slogans. Most of them are single studies with few participants that tend to compare apples to oranges. I

    Eddie O

  4. #4
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    I disagree on the blanket 300-500 calories per hour. While it is an individual thing I think many people will find they will do better on much less than that. But you will only know from trying. Personally I would start in the 250 range and go from there, depending on body weight.

  5. #5
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    For pre-hydration (and post, if i'm dehydrated) I've played with mixing a little powdered Gatorade into Heed. (only powder, as the liquid stuff now uses HFCS)

    I've heard that mixing those too is not good during really hard efforts and can lead to cramping. I may give it a shot, as I agree, that a small amount of simple sugar that your body can convert right away may not be a bad thing. I've read that some have good luck with this type of mixture. I'm going through my own issues with all of this as well, much to consider.

  6. #6
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    I'm confused...

    I have also been getting into the endurance side of things...and reading more on proper nutrition (during the ride). I thought I was doing a good job by drinking Gatorade Endurance, an occasional Red Bull, Powerbar gels, nuts, Clif bars, and SportLegs. I'm 6'0" tall and 215 lbs (naked). I'm training for my first solo 24 hour race next year and will attempt a 100 mile off-road ride next month. Can anyone make some specific recommendations for the 100 miler (i.e. drink, gel, solid food, when to eat, and the correct amount of calories per hour in the saddle)? I NEED SOMEBODY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO!...just saying "experiment and see what works for you" won't help me since I can't make sense of all the literature and opinions out there. Please keep in mind I'm on a budget and cannot afford to go out and drop $100 or more on powder, gels, pills, etc. (I hope I can still fuel myself properly without breaking the bank). Thanks in advance for helping me.

  7. #7
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    Gotta pay to play(unfortunetly)

    It sucks to pay a bunch of money for a supplement and then find out with only one use that it explodes in your stomach like an atomic bomb. If you are lucky enough to frequent a shop that will give you enough mix for a bottle to at least try that is great, otherwise ask around in the circle of friends that you ride with. I truly believe after having the exploding stomach syndrome that you just need to try different products and find the one that works for you. Of course that means having someone give you some or sucking it up and paying for it. On paper any product is great for you but until you try it you won't know. The big reminder like everyone always says, try it while training not racing. (IV bags at the ER aren't cheap) This of course comes from someone who knows what it is like to squeeze every penny as far as I can to pay for my riding/racing addiction.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by historeeteacher
    I NEED SOMEBODY TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO!...just saying "experiment and see what works for you" won't help me since I can't make sense of all the literature and opinions out there.
    When people say experiment they mean buy a couple different drinks and see which one you like better. The same goes for gels as well. Unfortunately nutrition tends to be a very individualized thing which I know isn't the answer you are looking to find. I love Cytomax but I have a friend who cramps when he drinks it. So you really do have to try a couple different brands. One good thing is most sell small serving containers that you can get for around $10 to try.
    However there are a couple good rules you can follow. First is the amount of calories and fluid you need to consume. For calories you need to figure out how many calories you are burning per hour and then try and consume around 1/2 of that amount an hour. This becomes extremely important as the amount of time you are exercising increases. Most people can get away with a deficeit during short events of 1-3 hours but as the time increases and the gap grows you will begin to feel like crap. There are several websites you can use to determine your caloric burn based on age, weight, excercise type, and excertion.
    You can then get these calories from several sources including; drinks, gels, gummies, and bars to just name a few. I personally like to use a bar every hour or so for long rides (over 5 hours) because they prevent me from feeling hungry. Personally the best bars I have found are Clif Bars and Lara Bars but this is just personal preference nothing more.

    For hydration a good starting point is one bottle (sorry I'm a "roadie") or .750ml an hour. When I did my first 200 mile ride I was a little worried about hydration and I simply did a little experiment. I weighed myself and then rode for 3 hours and consumed one bottle an hour for the 3 hours. Immediately following the ride I weighed myself and discovered I had lost 1/2 pound. I then adjusted my hydration and the following week did the same test and didn't lose any weight. This may sound a little anal but I had Heat Stroke once and I'm lucky to still be alright so I'm now very careful about my hydration.
    I hope this helps some.

  9. #9
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    It's good to be informed, but don't think about it too hard if what you are using works for you. It has taken a couple of years of experimenting to get my nutrition working, but I rock on Accelerade, home made energy bars, occasional shots of Hammer gel and a Go Fast or two. My only issue with Accelerade is the use of food dye. I've tried most of the other stuff and other than the gels the other products induce GI rebellion.
    Last edited by Loudpawlz; 07-10-2007 at 03:48 PM.

  10. #10
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    the only thing i really know about fueling is that I don't know how to fuel well, at all. the times my fueling has gone well has been when i've remembered to eat and drink, regardless what I've been drinking or eating.

    What I do know, though, is that I think most sports drinks taste like crap, and that's relevant because when something tastes like toe-jam, I don't want to drink it 5 hours into a ride. The fact that you're able to stomach and continue to want to eat during the middle of a ride is a bigger deal to me than what, specifically you're putting into your mouth, as long as you don't go too nuts.

    In race reports from endurance/24 hour races, you hear about guys eating pizza (eddie o), salmon (harlan price), soup (chris eatough) etc. If you can keep it down, eat it, it'll help you keep going.

    Even with all this said, I'm taking part in a study comparing sports drinks, and I'll post the outcomes/my impressions here when I'm finished.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie O
    I personally use a mixture of a sugar drink and a complex carb (maltodextrin) powder for a total of 300-400 calories per hour (or less than $.10 per serving) and then eat solid food on top of that depending on how long I'm out.
    Mind sharing your recipe?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by playpunk
    Even with all this said, I'm taking part in a study comparing sports drinks, and I'll post the outcomes/my impressions here when I'm finished.

    As others have mentioned - sports drinks are VERY person specific. What works for one won't work for others. I love hammer gel, but my stomach can't handle their soy-based Perpetum and Heed doesn't seem to go down good after 3 hours to me. Enervit works good but is $$$. Cytomax is also good but causes me to cramp after 2 hours and the sweetness gets to me.

    At Sea Otter I picked up some samples of Gluekos http://www.gleukos.com/gleukology-FAQs.html Actually, they had several cases at the end and I grabbed 2 cases of it and gave it a try. It's pretty good and super light on your stomach, easy to digest. You can drink it for 6 hours and it works good (for me). All natural, no sweeteners or dyes I don't think.

    My setup is Gluekos, Hammer gel, and home-made energy bars heavy on coarse-ground almonds (Cashews work good too) with coconut for some fat/protein content and calories. I too need some solid foods in me. The only downside to the Gleukos is it is low in calories and you definitely need to be good about eating and shooting gel chasers for added calories.

    Any truth to the rumor your body can only process 275 calories an hour while on the bike? I keep seeing that tossed about.
    Niner Bikes employee. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Niner-...3652275?ref=ts
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  13. #13
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    like everyone else has said, nutrition is very individual. My issue with accelerade is I can't drink it at recommended strength - it tastes like berry flavored milk and seems to cause gastric distress (which might be a benefit, as it could disable other racers with the fumes).

    unflavored perpetum... that stuff is great!

  14. #14
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    Save $$$ - Make your own Drink

    A recent issue of Outside magazine had a recipe for research-based energy drink comprised of maltodextrin, fructose and salt. I found Fructose in bulk at WIld Oats. Where can maltodextrin be purchased?

  15. #15
    Topeak-Ergon Racing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockin
    Mind sharing your recipe?
    3 scoops of Carb Plus (300 calories)
    50-75 calories of Gatorade or up to 100 calories of Power Bar Endurance..


    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter
    Where can maltodextrin be purchased?
    I looked a couple of years ago and had no luck, but that's when I found Carbo Plus, Carbo Hit and X-plode. All of those are plain complex carbo powders (I'm sure it's just maltodextrin) usually marketed to body builders.

    Eddie O

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Any truth to the rumor your body can only process 275 calories an hour while on the bike? I keep seeing that tossed about.
    I was fortunate to be in Colorado Springs for a few years and got to talk to a few coaches and riders. They were all "roadies" but I figure it shouldn't matter to much. They all reccommended basing your consumption on your expenditure or burn. They were lucky enough to have ways to do this that we don't but you can get pretty close using your heartrate, weight, and exercise performed. I used a few different calculators online and got a good average for what my predicted burn was and then I worked from that starting point to dial in my consumption. I now consume between 350-400 calories an hour for rides over 3 hours and it has been fantastic.
    As far as bars that are easy to eat and digest I would reccommend trying Lara Bars. These are by far the best tasting, easy to eat bar I have ever had. I can't say enough about how much I love these things. Everyone who I ride with regularly uses these now which is a pretty good endorsment. However there is one person who didn't like them so even if 10 people love something it still may not work for you.

  17. #17
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    very helpful thread

    hey headhunter, i found it on ebay TM

  18. #18
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    Maltodextrin

    Quote Originally Posted by headhunter
    A recent issue of Outside magazine had a recipe for research-based energy drink comprised of maltodextrin, fructose and salt. I found Fructose in bulk at WIld Oats. Where can maltodextrin be purchased?
    Now Foods (www.nowfoods.com), a supplement maker has a product called Carbo Gain that is 100% maltodextrin:

    http://www.nowfoods.com/?action=item...&item_id=92304

    It is available in a variety of sizes. Health food stores that stock lots of supplements may have it or can order it for you. They have a search you can put in your zip and find local stores that sell their products:

    http://www.nowfoods.com/index.php?cat_id=190

    B

  19. #19
    I am the big German!
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    maltodextrin

    try google and search bulk maltodextrin. I found bulkfoodsdotcom. Not sure about their service. I ordered bulk maltodextrin in the past (from another company) and would mix it with gatorade or someother drink. The maltodextrin is flavorless and you can create some really concentrated mix (on the order of 1000 calories per bottle). I would keep the calories in the bottles and water in the camelbak to keep clean-up easier.

  20. #20
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    Very helpful. Thanks!

    The article and recipe are in the July issue of Outside. I'll post the recipe tonight.

  21. #21
    This place needs an enema
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    Quote Originally Posted by playpunk
    the times my fueling has gone well has been when i've remembered to eat and drink, regardless what I've been drinking or eating.
    For those whose eyes are glazing over from all of the ratios and synthetic names being tossed about (Heed? To whom? Perpetuem?!! Who thinks of this stuff?), the sentence above is perhaps the most useful info you will find no matter how long or hard you dig.

    The fact that you are eating and drinking is far, far more important than *what* you're eating and drinking. If you find that that you get some sort of GI distress from something you've consumed, chances are you've taken in too much of it, or too much combined with too hard of a pace. There are other variables at play (heat, altitude, dehydration) and the only person that can discover and understand how they are interrelated for you is *you*.

    It's a fun, never-ending science project if you let it be.

    Cheers,

    MC

  22. #22
    I'm Idaho!
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    Maltodextrin:
    http://www.myspicer.com/proddetail.asp?prod=8613280

    Buy 25 pounds and it's cheap as dirt. But then you have 25 pounds of it.

  23. #23
    old enough to know better
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    Energy Drink Recipe from July 07 Outside

    Asker Jeukendrup's Recipe:

    1/2 cup maltodextrin
    6 1/2 tsp fructose
    1/4 - 1/2 tsp table salt
    1 liter water


    Outside Magazine July 2007 p. 65

    The article suggested adding additional flavoring to your preference.

  24. #24
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    Stingers

    If you like honey, try Honey Stingers gels. I've had great success with them. Kind of hard to find, though. I buy them from Excel Sprts.

  25. #25
    Topeak-Ergon Racing
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    Quote Originally Posted by normZurawski
    Buy 25 pounds and it's cheap as dirt. But then you have 25 pounds of it.
    We go through 20 lbs in 6 weeks around my house. Thanks for the links.

    Eddie O

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