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  1. #1
    rider
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    Which seatpost rack is most durable?

    I have heard of a number of seatpost rack failures, even before I started following this ultramarathon MTB thing. I'm thinking of buying the most respected rack out there and not going above 60% of it's rated carrying capacity, or should I keep it even lighter than that??

    I'd really like to ride the GDR next year with a ST or FS bike so if anyone has input on those choices, please chime in as well.

    29erchico

  2. #2
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    Old Man Mountain or Jannd.
    OMM is by other's report- here's a link to a GDR report from last year by Brad Kee, a great guy who gives a big thumb's-up.
    http://www.biowheels.com/Home/Article.asp?ArticleID=432
    I've done over 3000 miles of touring and a ton of grocery hauling with Jandd Racks. Even with an average 40-45 pound loads while touring (hugemoungous Jandd Hurricane bags- by the way- did I say I like Jandd product ), not a problem, even once. The touring included much rough fire road and some trail.

    Peace, Mike

  3. #3
    rider
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    Seatpost rack???

    Mike:

    Thanks for the input, but I went to the two mfr.'s websites that you mentioned and neither of them make a seatpost rack...

    29erchico

  4. #4
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    I should learn how to read. Anyway, that's pretty funny.
    The Old Man Mountain website shows they'll do custom orders, I think- although I did not open the window, to be factually correct.
    I've actually read Brad's report on the GDR (ha-ha). Another racer's seatpost rack broke- Brad was riding a lot with the other person. In the pictures, he's running the OMM rack with a dry bag strapped to the top , no panniers. My opinion: More weight for full-on pannier rack vs. increased durability- for the long tours/races- I'll take the durability.

  5. #5
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    Moooooooots

    I've heard good things.
    http://www.moots.com/store-indivdisp...ium+Components
    Attached Images Attached Images
    WWW.TEAMDICKY.COM

    I get paid 3 every time I post on MTBR.

  6. #6
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    look for a non-quick release rack. All of the failures I've seen in these types of racks are at the attachment point.

    This guy is the strongest I've seen:
    http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=RK7000
    (they have another model for larger diameter posts) notice how the beam is kind of like a giant stem; even with the bolts loose it will not fall off. It's rated for 40# - double what most racks are rated for.

    I have an axiom, like this one: http://www.axiomgear.com/racks_seatp...e_seatpost.php
    (mine doesn't have panier supports). the web page says 25kg capacity, mine says max load 15kg (stamped on the deck). I've never loaded it up anywhere near that, but it stands to reason that if you are carrying 15# a rack that's rated to carry 3 times that will be less likely to fail than one just barely rated for that load.

    if you are really worried about it, axiom also makes a horst-link compatable FS rack that they claim has a 50kg capacity. seems to me like by the way it mounts, if you where to carry anywhere near that you'd basically be riding a rigid bike (because you'd be adding so much unsprung - or partially sprung - weight). but again, if you are only carrying 20#, having a rack that's good for over 100 might give some piece of mind. http://www.axiomgear.com/racks_suspe...suspension.php

  7. #7
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    Have you considered a saddle bag?

    Quote Originally Posted by 29erchico
    I have heard of a number of seatpost rack failures, even before I started following this ultramarathon MTB thing. I'm thinking of buying the most respected rack out there and not going above 60% of it's rated carrying capacity, or should I keep it even lighter than that??

    I'd really like to ride the GDR next year with a ST or FS bike so if anyone has input on those choices, please chime in as well.

    29erchico
    A seatpost rack is a long lever holding a load. Take a book and hold it at arm's length and it is a lot harder to hold up than if you hold it near your chest. A true touring rack has struts supporting it from below to help prevent the lever from having any up and down motion. A seatpost rack is a bastardization of a real rack and is a poor substitute. Have you considered using a saddlebag? Racks are sort of an American phenomenon, and saddlebags are more British. Consider the following saddle:

    http://www.wallbike.com/B17.html

    Those eyelets at the back of the saddle are used to strap on a saddlebag. If you absolutely love your current saddle and don't want to consider a brooks you can add on eyelets with the following:

    http://www.wallbike.com/carradice/clamp.html

    Now consider any one of the following saddlebags to go with:

    http://www.wallbike.com/carradice/ca...addlebags.html

    One of the more gigantic bags you could carry:

    http://www.wallbike.com/carradice/longflaps.html

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    There was a hand full of these on Trans-Iowa last year. If it's a Moots product it has to be good. I even think Curiak used it for GDR the year he broke the record.

  9. #9
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    I just love it when people trot out pics of the carradice stuff. Makes my day (laughing) every time.

    Marshall, FS for the GDR is huge overkill. A softtail fits the bill, but a HT with a Thudbuster would be 95% as good. Then you could use a real (struts) rear rack, with a rack trunk, and not have to worry about breakage. OMM racks seem to be the most popular for GDR racers.

    If you don't have an HT or ST option, and must ride the FS (I'm tellin' ya, DON'T...), I don't think there's much difference between the seatpost racks. They all break, eventually.

    The Moots Tailgator that was suggested is great for short trips where you're carrying 2-3lbs (Great for the Kokopelli or Trans Iowa) but simply not big or sturdy enough for GDR duty (unless you're supplementing it with a Bob or F150...).

    Good luck.

    MC

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    I just love it when people trot out pics of the carradice stuff. Makes my day (laughing) every time.

    Marshall, FS for the GDR is huge overkill. A softtail fits the bill, but a HT with a Thudbuster would be 95% as good. Then you could use a real (struts) rear rack, with a rack trunk, and not have to worry about breakage. OMM racks seem to be the most popular for GDR racers.

    If you don't have an HT or ST option, and must ride the FS (I'm tellin' ya, DON'T...), I don't think there's much difference between the seatpost racks. They all break, eventually.

    The Moots Tailgator that was suggested is great for short trips where you're carrying 2-3lbs (Great for the Kokopelli or Trans Iowa) but simply not big or sturdy enough for GDR duty (unless you're supplementing it with a Bob or F150...).

    Good luck.

    MC
    So you think a Carradice is too. . . what?

    Too heavy? Too weak? Too British? Too retro?

    You can get one of any size, from trunk size to pannier size. You can strap them down with tethers so they don't move a bit or you can let them just dangle from the seat. They are waterproof, attached with materials that won't die from stress fatigue (but could rip if overloaded), and will survive where a seatpost rack would fail. Only a true rack with struts, etc, is stronger, as you stated. But a full on rack adds a good 1-2 lbs to the bike.

    So please, critique the idea. But don't dismiss it out of hand.

  11. #11
    just a guy with a bike
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    The best seatpost rack is none

    I'd echo what MikeC said and amplify it. If you use one, the odds are you'll bust it. And I've been on several ROAD brevets where I've seen guys crack their saddle rails due in part to the added strain of Caradice bags.

    Look at what others have ridden on the GDR and make your choices but the odds are you need less than you think.

    Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
    Issaquah WA USA
    http://kentsbike.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentsbike
    I'd echo what MikeC said and amplify it. If you use one, the odds are you'll bust it. And I've been on several ROAD brevets where I've seen guys crack their saddle rails due in part to the added strain of Caradice bags.

    Look at what others have ridden on the GDR and make your choices but the odds are you need less than you think.

    Kent "Mountain Turtle" Peterson
    Issaquah WA USA
    http://kentsbike.blogspot.com/
    Good lord. Several road brevets where the saddle bag broke the rails? What on earth were they hauling? Other than a change of clothes and some tools there is nothing needed on a brevet. . . Were these breaks on full up saddles designed for bag use (ie, Brooks) or were they conversions with an adapter attached to the saddle?

    I can see where a magnesium or Ti railed saddle with clamp might break, but I would be shocked to hear of a steel railed saddle breaking. If a saddle can hold a 130-250 lb rider the addition of a 15 lbs of bag should be nothing.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morlahach
    So you think a Carradice is too. . . what?

    Too heavy? Too weak? Too British? Too retro?

    You can get one of any size, from trunk size to pannier size. You can strap them down with tethers so they don't move a bit or you can let them just dangle from the seat. They are waterproof, attached with materials that won't die from stress fatigue (but could rip if overloaded), and will survive where a seatpost rack would fail. Only a true rack with struts, etc, is stronger, as you stated. But a full on rack adds a good 1-2 lbs to the bike.

    So please, critique the idea. But don't dismiss it out of hand.
    It makes me laugh all the more when I read of a Carradice zealot trying to defend the bags, and, by extension, their own honor.

    If they work for you, fine, but why try to push them on people? Why insist that it's THE BEST answer, when you only have some of the info? Provide the info you have, then let the poster decide if it works for them.

    They don't work for me, and they only work marginally for the folks I know that have used/are using them.

    MC
    Last edited by mikesee; 01-17-2006 at 12:17 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    It makes laugh all the more when I read of a Carradice zealot trying to defend the bags, and, by extension, their own honor.

    If they work for you, fine, but why try to push them on people? Why insist that it's THE BEST answer, when you only have some of the info? Provide the info you have, then let the poster decide if it works for them.

    They don't work for me, and they only work marginally for the folks I know that have used/are using them.

    MC
    It may shock you that I don't own, and have never owned, a Carradice nor any other saddlebag. I know people who own and love them, so I am relaying their opinion, not my own. I am surprised by Kent's info that a saddle would break while carrying one on a paved brevet, but I don't know what saddle was being used nor what load was in the bag.

    So go ahead and laugh at me as I "trot out" the pictures and hang my "honor" on the utility of Carradice. I certainly have a better picture of you than you do of me.

  15. #15
    just a guy with a bike
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    Broken saddle rails

    Quote Originally Posted by Morlahach
    Good lord. Several road brevets where the saddle bag broke the rails? What on earth were they hauling? Other than a change of clothes and some tools there is nothing needed on a brevet. . . Were these breaks on full up saddles designed for bag use (ie, Brooks) or were they conversions with an adapter attached to the saddle?

    I can see where a magnesium or Ti railed saddle with clamp might break, but I would be shocked to hear of a steel railed saddle breaking. If a saddle can hold a 130-250 lb rider the addition of a 15 lbs of bag should be nothing.
    It's not the weight, it's the leverage. Add fifteen pounds levered off the back and you get strain unlike what you get with the more straight-down pressure from the saddle.

    One instance that I recall clearly was Ron Himschoot on the Rocky Mountain 1200 up in Canada (Kamloops BC, Ice Fields Parkway, etc.) Ron was riding a Brooks, I think it was a B17 with steel rails. Now the edges of the saddle clamps are certainly contributing factors in terms of being stress risers but its the added leveraged weight that seems to be the killer.

    Kent

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentsbike
    It's not the weight, it's the leverage. Add fifteen pounds levered off the back and you get strain unlike what you get with the more straight-down pressure from the saddle.

    One instance that I recall clearly was Ron Himschoot on the Rocky Mountain 1200 up in Canada (Kamloops BC, Ice Fields Parkway, etc.) Ron was riding a Brooks, I think it was a B17 with steel rails. Now the edges of the saddle clamps are certainly contributing factors in terms of being stress risers but its the added leveraged weight that seems to be the killer.

    Kent
    Well, that clinches it then. If a Brooks with steel rails broke it is a terrible design flaw. That saddle is meant for a saddle bag, but it broke nonetheless.

    The whole leverage thing is why I thought the saddle bag would be better than a seat post rack. I figured that the distance between the seat post and the saddle bag would be short enough to prevent it from getting too much leverage.

    The problem with a seat post rack is that you have weight attached to a 1+ foot lever. A saddle bag is attached at the end of a ~3 inch lever. With 1/4 the length it should be exposed to 1/4 the force for any given weight. But evidently the saddle rails aren't strong enough to handle even that.

    Good info, well explained, and politely put.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    I just love it when people trot out pics of the carradice stuff. Makes my day (laughing) every time.

    Marshall, FS for the GDR is huge overkill. A softtail fits the bill, but a HT with a Thudbuster would be 95% as good. Then you could use a real (struts) rear rack, with a rack trunk, and not have to worry about breakage. OMM racks seem to be the most popular for GDR racers.

    If you don't have an HT or ST option, and must ride the FS (I'm tellin' ya, DON'T...), I don't think there's much difference between the seatpost racks. They all break, eventually.

    The Moots Tailgator that was suggested is great for short trips where you're carrying 2-3lbs (Great for the Kokopelli or Trans Iowa) but simply not big or sturdy enough for GDR duty (unless you're supplementing it with a Bob or F150...).

    Good luck.

    MC
    Mike, Kent & everyone:

    Thanks for chiming in. I was on the fence about the FS issue, as I was really close to sending a deposit to Walt to start the design process for a do-it-all-bike (29er por seguro), suspension corrected HT with disc brakes AND rack mounts. Thudbuster was a for sure. Between the Moxie and the Thud I have ridden the design for over a decade & it works really well.

    I just wanted to explore the FS option a bit more. I was hoping to just carry my projected sub six pound total shelter system: bag, bivy, pad, ground cloth & tarp on a seapost rack.
    I MAY be able to get my shelter system down to very near five pounds. But, given the dynamics of such a long dirt ride, even such a light load could very well cause a seatpost rack to fail.

    Kent: the needs reminder is always welcome! Way too easy to confuse wants with needs. Loved your GDR writeup.

    Mike: I would ONLY dream of supplementing my gear capacity with my F150 on the GDR, that's against the rules. But dang, when it comes to dragging stuff around the planet, nothing beats that Rack-It construction rack!

    Ok, I'll be getting a stout steel HT frame from Walt. Three large water bottles will fit inside the main triangle on an XL frame & one below the downtube as well.

    29erchico

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