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  1. #1
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    nutrition logistics during a long race/ride

    I have raced a lot of endurance lap style races and a few single loop 100K races. The lap style time races, like a 6 or 12 hour is easy to coordinate the logistics for them as you ride by them every lap. I have been able to handle 100K distances as far as hydration but seem to struggle with nutrition some, I tend to not carry enough therefore I don't take in enough to fuel properly.

    I am working on a mostly liquid based fuel source for the long distance rides and races and plan on having only minimal solid food just incase, along with gel in a flask or two for an emergency. I will be doing at least 2 100 mile, 1 100K, a 24 hour, a 12 hour and a 6 hour races this year along with several long (50 plus) unsupported training rides.

    How do y'all carry the nutrition you use during such rides and races? I had rather not rely on aid stations in races for anything other than water. I of course will be eating some of their food, but not depending on it. I will be wearing my hydration pack which is an Osprey Raptor 14 and have thought about bags like the JPacks.

    Thanks for any input!

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    I try not to rely on liquid based fuel. I find I don't drink enough to get enough food in, so focus on gels and bars. That way I can ensure I eat a set number each hour, then take on liquid as I need, rather than forcing myself to drink, especially if it is not a particularly hot day.

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    That makes sense and is a concern of mine. But during my preseason buildup I am testing it out to see if it will work. But how are you packing and transporting it during a race with no drop bags?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    That makes sense and is a concern of mine. But during my preseason buildup I am testing it out to see if it will work. But how are you packing and transporting it during a race with no drop bags?
    Typically you have a sag wagon that will take drop bags to feed stations on the course, or an option to ride out to those feed stations via service roads to drop your bags yourself. In races like this, I send Tailwind in zip lock bags or water bottles to the feed stations and use that to restock as I ride through.

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    I also have an Osprey Raptor 14 and I did a 12 hour adventure race (trek, mtb, kayak) in the fall and carried everything with me the whole way. I brought 1 cliff bar for each hour out and ate one bar on the hour every hour. then I had 3 or 4 Gatorade gummy "strips" that I ate as needed when I started to feel drained just to get a quick spike in energy. of course, I had my bladder too. i have to say that it worked amazingly for me and i don't think there was much room for me to improve for how my body works. obviously everybody works a bit differently, but hopefully this helps you a bit...

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    For me it is a combo of a tri-bag on the top tube filled with gels, and then the rest in my jersey pockets, topped up by food from the stops, with one bottle on the frame. I just stop at every water stop and fill up.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    That makes sense and is a concern of mine. But during my preseason buildup I am testing it out to see if it will work. But how are you packing and transporting it during a race with no drop bags?
    That's one of the beauty parts of powder. It's really small.

    I think the concern about forcing yourself to hydrate too much in order to keep up with your caloric intake is a short term problem. You learn. You learn what concentration your mixed nutrition needs to be and you learn how to take in the appropriate amount. Once you figure that out you can fuel very easily on the bike. No fiddling around with packaging to eat gels or bars.

    I use Tailwind Nutrition. My system is that I put powder in a top tube bag (jpaks snakpak). I keep it in little screw-top plastic bottles (nalgene 4 oz). I have water in a hydration pack. I mix a bottle every 90-120 minutes. I can mix a bottle in less than a minute without removing my pack. I fill the bottle siphon hose style from the pack on my back.

    In 2013 I rode an ITT of the Vapor Trail 125. I re-filled my hydration pack three times during the trip using purified creek water. I had no solid food with me. I was out for about 22 hours, moving time was 19 hours 45 minutes. Nothing but Tailwind. I've also done a 24 solo, nothing but Tailwind. During lap races of course logistics are easy, but my body was happy with the nutrition.

    Nothing works for everybody, but in my opinion and experience, liquid fuel works best. It's the easiest way for your body to take up calories. It flows into your duodenum and is taken up easily without making the stomach and intestines break it down first.

    Do what you like, but I'd suggest you not just wave off a purely liquid nutrition strategy because of something that you could learn how to avoid.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

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    I send my drink mixes to Aid Stations in a small cooler, or put them in 1.75L OJ bottles with some ice. Different races offer different options for this approach.

    For self-supported training rides, I will mix up a large bottle of highly-concentrated drink mix to sip throughout the ride. Then I either load up the backpack with water or weak drink mix, or I'll drop some water bottles at intermediate points the night before the ride.

    I've run 100 mile races for 15 years using your stated "mostly liquid" approach (Heed/Perpetuem for me). It works great, and I supplement with gel and bars as needed.

    Pro Tip: If you've got to eat some solid food, the best place is before a LONG descent, to allow for some actual digestion. Nothing pleases me more if I'm in a dogfight during a race than seeing somebody chow down a bunch of solid food right before a massive climb.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Thanks guys thats pretty much where I'm at, liquid nutrition (Tailwind or carborocket 333) I'm still trying to decide what I like the best. I am going to have some roctane gel in a flask for emergency bonks. I was more looking for ideas to carry it during non-lap races. I have done 100k and 12 hours fueling on solids like cliff bars and the like, but they can be a ***** to get open, in your mouth, then down without crashing or choking haha. Most of my races will be in New England so the trails don't offer much trail that is easy to eat on.

    Thanks for the ideas guys. Any more ideas on how to pack individual bottle servings of powder that's quick and easy to use and packs up neat and small? I have done ziplock snack bags and they work, just looking for other ideas...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Thanks for the ideas guys. Any more ideas on how to pack individual bottle servings of powder that's quick and easy to use and packs up neat and small? I have done ziplock snack bags and they work, just looking for other ideas...
    Ziplock bags can be troublesome. Friend of mine dumped in way too much powder because it was awkward and had to deal with it because it was already wet. It wound up ruining his day.

    I mentioned in my post, I use small Nalgene bottles. Like this:

    https://www.campmor.com/c/nalgene-wi...FQW4wAodJ0wMRw

    I have some 2 oz and some 4 oz bottles. It's just a little screw top bottle. I've gotten experienced enough with Tailwind that I can dump some in, mix and taste it, adjust concentration if needed and go. I can get 2+ water bottles out of a 4 oz Nalgene. And one point something from a 2 oz. I'll often use my 2 oz bottles for caffeinated Tailwind I might want.

    You could easily measure single bottle doses into 2 oz Nalgene bottles and have a dump-and-go setup. Most likely your per-bottle dose would be less than the full 2 oz bottle, so you'd be carrying some empty volume, but that's what I'd recommend.

    Baggies are not a great idea for the shaky hands of a tired endurance rider.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

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    I like the idea of those bottles, Ill pick some up and give them a go on my next long rides. I bet they would ride well in my pack. I only resorted to the small ziplock bags because they pack up so small and fit nice in a pocket without digging in to my back.

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    I use Tailwind as nearly my sole fueling choice as well (only really supplemented with a sip of Coke at an aid station from time to time and Clif banana-mango pouches to satisfy my "I want food in my mouth" cravings). I mix mine in my 2L Camelback for endurance races. I haven't gotten too fancy on how to carry extra with me, just pre-measured into a ziplock baggie. I've also run an empty bottle with a few scoops in it on my one MTB that has two bottle cages.

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    So from my understanding: Tailwind is 25g of Carbs per serving, recommended in a large bottle, per hour.

    Now to me that is on the low side of the carb uptake, since the "recommended" amount is 60 - 90g per hour, plus a large amount of water.

    Now I use the Torq gels, which have 28.8g per gel, which I do about 2 per 1.5 hours, plus water as needed, and on long rides some bars for a change.
    While I understand the liquid side of things, there is no way I could drink that amount of water needed to get the same amount of carbs into me. I have tried, and it does not work, for me.

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    Carborocket 333 is 82g, but I have never used it more than 3-4 hours at a time. It may be a bit strong for 10-12 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxShred View Post
    So from my understanding: Tailwind is 25g of Carbs per serving, recommended in a large bottle, per hour.

    Now to me that is on the low side of the carb uptake, since the "recommended" amount is 60 - 90g per hour, plus a large amount of water.

    Now I use the Torq gels, which have 28.8g per gel, which I do about 2 per 1.5 hours, plus water as needed, and on long rides some bars for a change.
    While I understand the liquid side of things, there is no way I could drink that amount of water needed to get the same amount of carbs into me. I have tried, and it does not work, for me.
    "Serving size" is listed as 1 scoop. Typical mix strength is 2-3 scoops in a 24oz bottle. So that would be 50-75g of carbs per bottle. I typically shoot for a bottle an hour unless its hot out and then I up to 1.5 bottles per hour. I've read that a 100kcal Gu gel requires 10oz of water to digest, so if that is true your water needs are the same, but with the calories in the water too you don't have to carry two things, deal with gel wrappers, or need calories in a section of course you can't afford to ride one handed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tailwind
    USAGE

    Each serving is 100 calories. For endurance workouts, mix 2-3 scoops per 24 oz of water per hour. Adjust to your personal calorie needs during training, using hunger as a guide. When it’s dialed in, you’ll feel satisfied and energetic, not hungry or full. On hot days, keep the same calories per hour, but increase water. To use in combo with other foods, reduce Tailwind intake by the calories you’re consuming elsewhere to avoid overloading the gut. For shorter workouts (<2hr), you can use less Tailwind to taste.

  16. #16
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    I use powdered drink mixes pre-measured into zip-lock baggies... one bottle's worth into each baggie. Bags can go into a drop back, jersey pocket... where-ever.

    I hate to have too much in my pockets... so, I also use a triathlete style "Bento-Box" mounted to my top-tube for gels and Salt-Stick. Much faster/easier to grab something on the fly than stopping to rummage through a backpack or trying to rummage blindly through jersey pockets.

    Most races provide some opportunity for drop-bags... I always do that even if I don't plan to use it... its always good to have back-up if you need it.

    Lastly... be very careful about putting all your eggs in one basket... i.e. liquid nutrition in your hydration pack. That can be a recipe for disaster. I ALWAYS carry two options, one plain water and one with mix. (2-bottles or 1-bottle and hydration pack). If you over do the carbs, you will be screwed with only one source. I had this happen in a hot race, my stomach starting feeling queasy from carbs and I only had bottles filled with mix... keep drinking and your stomach goes to hell, stop drinking and you get dehydrated. After that episode, I always carry multiple options... usually plain water, hydration mix, bars/gels and salt-stick.
    TTUB - Ventura County California

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    Good call TTUB, I always plan on having at least 1 source of H2O.

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    Opposite approach here on water.

    I find that if I'm going hard, there is never a downside to having a couple hundred calories in each bottle.

    Quite the opposite, in fact. I find that if I'm in an intense battle, I tend to get "behind" on digging around in pockets for calories.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    I've had the issue happen where I needed more water than calories. Now I just keep an empty bottle in the cage and use my hydration pack for water+TW and carry some Gu packs in case things swing the other way and I need more cal and less water. The latter only really happens very early or very late in the race season and/or if it rains during a race.

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    I've also found that falling behind on calories isn't terribly damaging while falling behind on hydration is really bad. I can dig out of a calorie deficit fairly easily, but it takes a long time to dig out of a hydration deficit. This might be a case of identification too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    Opposite approach here on water.

    I find that if I'm going hard, there is never a downside to having a couple hundred calories in each bottle.
    That's my wife's strategy. She thinks it's a waste of time & opportunity to drink pure water. She specifically wants to keep the electrolytes flowing.

    I run two bottles and no pack... it's only a matter of which bottle I reach for. I usually go 50/50 on which bottle I grab, but can tweak that as needed. I also tend to run the 1 mix bottle a little on the concentrated side of the recommended mix schedule.

    Obviously, everyone is a little different. The real key is to experiment in training, know what works for you and duplicate that successful strategy on race day.
    TTUB - Ventura County California

  22. #22
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    I use Tailwind pre-measured into ziplock baggies. With the right amount (2 1/2 scoops for me) for 1 bottle in each baggie. I put the non-caffeinated ones in my right jersey pocket, and the caffeinated ones in my left jersey pocket. So for an 8 hour race, like a typical 100-miler. I might start with 2 bottles on the bike, and 6 baggies of Tailwind, 3 caff in the left pocket, 3 non-caff in the right pocket. I've only done one race that had a drop bag at the halfway point, and I'm not sure if it was worth the time to find my bag and dig through it to get the extra baggies out, compared to just carrying the 4 extra baggies with me during the first half of the race.

    I don't carry any plain water, and definitely not solid food. I think people think there's something magical about solid food, like it has more energy or something, but the only difference with solid food, is that your body has to break it down into a liquid before it can be absorbed, and that's just time wasted that your body isn't absorbing calories and your getting closer to bonking. The body can only absorb about 220-300 calories an hour depending on body weight, level of training, etc. and your burning generally over 600 calories/hour so it's a race of attrition. Anything you're doing to slow down your absorption of calories, like eating solid food, just puts you further behind on your calorie intake. A sip of water to clear your palate is nice sometimes, and felt downright necessary when I used to use Gatorade or Heed, but with Tailwind and the lack of artificial flavors and sweeteners I don't get any of the cloying feeling in my mouth. I do tend to use different flavors in each bag, so that keeps things fresh taste-wise too.
    Wow, GJ, Fruita, and Moab trails are riding great. This is a killer spring for riding!

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    Dld,
    Sounds like a very solid plan, and very similar to what I am wanting to get sorted out for me. But I may carry a gel or two just incase. From the sounds of it you are not wearing a hydration pack of any sort, just two bottles and zip locks of TW in your pockets for the long races? So you are just making sure to top off at aid stations so you don't run out of liquid (I understand knowing the course and the aid stations arrangements to plan accordingly)? I would like to be able to not wear a pack during such a long event and think I can get my kit sorted out so that may be possible...

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    Knowing the aid stations is huge...
    At Leadville last year, all the aid stations had roamers with pitchers of water and drink mix... they would run out to you... just come to a stop, screw off the lid of your bottle and they would just dump in your choice of liquid... super fast.

    If you do run a hydration pack, some racers will bring an extra bladder pre-filled and in their drop bag / or left with friends at aid station... no need to open and refill, just swap out bladders. If you are using a support crew, they can fill the empty for exchange at your next pass.

    At Leadville around the Fish Hatchery... I even had a aid worker run along side me during a short uphill and fill my bottle on the fly... didn't even have to stop!
    TTUB - Ventura County California

  25. #25
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    Damn that is some killer aid stations there!

  26. #26
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Dld,
    Sounds like a very solid plan, and very similar to what I am wanting to get sorted out for me. But I may carry a gel or two just incase. From the sounds of it you are not wearing a hydration pack of any sort, just two bottles and zip locks of TW in your pockets for the long races? So you are just making sure to top off at aid stations so you don't run out of liquid (I understand knowing the course and the aid stations arrangements to plan accordingly)? I would like to be able to not wear a pack during such a long event and think I can get my kit sorted out so that may be possible...
    Depending on length of race, I sometimes carry a gel, as a just in case, like if I spilled a baggie or something. And you're right, that strategy is dependent on using aid stations for water. I happen to have two small camelbaks (50oz), and I've used those for night laps one time (I don't think I filled them all the way because of shorter laps, and at night) and I just dropped off one, and my wife handed me the other one ready to go. That worked well. Nice to not have to worry about reaching for a bottle in the dark. I'm looking at some short (3 hour) races currently, and for one of them the aid stations seem difficult to get to, so I don't think I'll have on-course support. I'm considering using a 50oz camelbak filled with non-caff Tailwind, and then a bottle on the bike with caff'd Tailwind. Trying to decide if I'll lose more time filling the bottles up, or from the extra weight. Leaning toward the camelbak for that so I don't even have to stop. I'd drink from the Camelbak during the first long climb, so it wouldn't be that much weight difference after that.

    As TTUB said, definitely know where the aid stations are, how far apart they'll be time-wise at your pace, and plan accordingly. A pre-filled extra camelbak in a drop bag is a good idea. I hadn't thought of that. I could've just put some full bottles in a drop bag too, instead of just the baggies. Hmmm, ideas for the next time. Depending on the race, it's nice to not have to drop out of a group if you're getting a good draft. Most of my races tend to be singletrack where that doesn't really matter though. If a headwind picks up, it can matter on almost any course though.

    Those do sound like cool aid stations.
    Wow, GJ, Fruita, and Moab trails are riding great. This is a killer spring for riding!

  27. #27
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    Since it looks like the OP is getting some good info into his question, can I steer the topic a bit (based on some things that have been discussed here)?

    I've done much endurance racing in the passed. Specializing in 4-6 hr events and some occasional 12hrs. I've been away from he scene for about 5 yrs and am now working back to that level of fitness. I've got my system worked out pretty well for me. However, none of it is liquid calories. I've tried some of the options and they always leave me bloated and gassy. I feel like my body doesn't process the stuff very well. But I do like the idea of it and after reading some of these replies I'm wondering if there are options that are known to be a little easier on the digestive tract? I need to look into this Tailwind option, everyone seems to be keen on it.

    All that being said, I recently tried to use some "vegan electrolyte" mix (as a healthy gatroaide substitute), and very quickly detected the same flavor/sensation that gave me issues in the past. But I can't pinpoint the EXACT ingredient that does it.

    Thanks
    CJB

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBaron View Post
    Since it looks like the OP is getting some good info into his question, can I steer the topic a bit (based on some things that have been discussed here)?

    I've done much endurance racing in the passed. Specializing in 4-6 hr events and some occasional 12hrs. I've been away from he scene for about 5 yrs and am now working back to that level of fitness. I've got my system worked out pretty well for me. However, none of it is liquid calories. I've tried some of the options and they always leave me bloated and gassy. I feel like my body doesn't process the stuff very well. But I do like the idea of it and after reading some of these replies I'm wondering if there are options that are known to be a little easier on the digestive tract? I need to look into this Tailwind option, everyone seems to be keen on it.

    All that being said, I recently tried to use some "vegan electrolyte" mix (as a healthy gatroaide substitute), and very quickly detected the same flavor/sensation that gave me issues in the past. But I can't pinpoint the EXACT ingredient that does it.

    Thanks
    CJB
    A lot of folks get the gut bomb from fructose. I imagine it's different for different people. Some products have different ingredients depending on the form it's bought it. Like powdered Gatorade is still the original formula developed by the researchers at the University of Florida. It's still all sucrose and dextrose, albeit with some artificial colorings and flavorings that make it less than ideal for extended use. The bottled version of Gatorade just uses high-fructose corn syrup ever since they got bought by Coke some 20-30 years ago, so basically the same as their soda without carbonation but with different colorings, flavorings, and some sodium added. Just a little something to be aware of.
    Wow, GJ, Fruita, and Moab trails are riding great. This is a killer spring for riding!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    A lot of folks get the gut bomb from fructose. I imagine it's different for different people. Some products have different ingredients depending on the form it's bought it. Like powdered Gatorade is still the original formula developed by the researchers at the University of Florida. It's still all sucrose and dextrose, albeit with some artificial colorings and flavorings that make it less than ideal for extended use. The bottled version of Gatorade just uses high-fructose corn syrup ever since they got bought by Coke some 20-30 years ago, so basically the same as their soda without carbonation but with different colorings, flavorings, and some sodium added. Just a little something to be aware of.
    No I didn't know those details exactly.

    Gatorade is the drink of choice for me. I really like the "endurance formula" that comes in the packets. I do one bottle straight water, the other bottle over-concentrated EF Gatorade. I alternate between the 2 as my tastes desire. Once my mixed bottle gets about half full, I fill it back up with water to a normal dilution. This combo has worked for me for a long while. But I'd truly like to find some liquid calories and reduce my sugar content.

    In reply to OP's question, on long events I run a medium bento box fwd on my top tube, filled with gel packets. I alternate them fwd to back, with one direction containing caffeine, the other non-caf. I set a timer on my watch for 50 min and then skip the first alarm. At 1.6 hrs I start taking a gel every 50 min. If I start to get tired of those flavors, I'll reach for a bar or shot blok from my pocket. I take a few bites and then fold it up and tuck the item under the leg band of my shorts. From there I can quickly grab the item, take another bite and put it back.

    Lastly, buried deep in my middle jersey pocket, I usually have some kind of "treat food". Invariably, late in the race, I'll stop somewhere to refuel/relieve myself/checkpoint and get a craving for something not race-food. My #1 choice is an oatmeal creme pie, but I can also do a mini-pecan pie, or snickers.

    Keep the suggestion coming...

    Thanks
    CJB

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    Dld, I had no idea about the Gatoraid thing. Thank you for sharing that, very interesting! I am really enjoying this thread as race nutrition is all I have been thinking about all winter. I have some good ideas that I want to test come spring, and now thanks to y'all I they have become even more refined. I cant wait until things thaw out here in Maine, long winters!

    CBaron, I really like the idea of setting an alarm every 50 min or so to keep me on track with my nutrition. I have a lot of experience with timed lap races (6 to 12 hours) and as I said before they are easy both logistically and with timing of nutrition as most of them have 45min to 1 hour lap times. Last year I started the single lap 100K and this year I am giving some 100 miler NUE races a shot, so keeping aware of the time is going to be something that I have not practiced much. I think the alarm could be a great way to keep from getting caught up in the racing so much that I forget about nutrition.

    I really appreciate all the suggestions thus far! Cant wait to get off the trainer and outside to test this out!

  31. #31
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    TW powder in 2 oz bottles

    Quote Originally Posted by TomP View Post
    Ziplock bags can be troublesome. Friend of mine dumped in way too much powder because it was awkward and had to deal with it because it was already wet. It wound up ruining his day.

    I mentioned in my post, I use small Nalgene bottles. Like this:

    https://www.campmor.com/c/nalgene-wi...FQW4wAodJ0wMRw

    I have some 2 oz and some 4 oz bottles. It's just a little screw top bottle. I've gotten experienced enough with Tailwind that I can dump some in, mix and taste it, adjust concentration if needed and go. I can get 2+ water bottles out of a 4 oz Nalgene. And one point something from a 2 oz. I'll often use my 2 oz bottles for caffeinated Tailwind I might want.

    You could easily measure single bottle doses into 2 oz Nalgene bottles and have a dump-and-go setup. Most likely your per-bottle dose would be less than the full 2 oz bottle, so you'd be carrying some empty volume, but that's what I'd recommend.

    Baggies are not a great idea for the shaky hands of a tired endurance rider.
    Tom,
    I just ordered eight of those little 2 oz bottles. I plan to carry three with me (in addition to the two liters of mixed TW in my CamelBak) at my next endurance event - planning on 6 hrs (in 3 weeks). I'll let you know how it goes for me. It's got to be better than tearing open the packets with gloves on in the middle of an event!
    Thanks from a fellow TW Trailblazer!
    Matt Eggleton

    P.S. Interested in hearing more about that siphoning technique!

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    I just wanna ride...

  32. #32
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    nutrition logistics during a long race/ride

    Hey MegaMustang, r u going to start at 8:30 am sharp for the Montezuma? Just curious as you'll prolly pass me like at other races where u started after my age division took off before yours. I plan to start at 8:30 am and see how well I do to see if Shenandoah 100 or Leadville MTB 100 is more than a wet dream. I also ordered three of the 2 oz bottles for the TW. As this will be my first long distance race...uh I mean, ride I have no idea about anything.

    I'm thinking how hard can it be to tear open a single serving pack of TW into a bottle, but I remember doing some asinine stuff in an oxygen deprived state during races, so I ordered some containers, too.

    Stuart

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    '15 Specialized Epic Expert Carbon World Cup

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg81 View Post
    Hey MegaMustang, r u going to start at 8:30 am sharp for the Montezuma? Just curious as you'll prolly pass me like at other races where u started after my age division took off before yours. I plan to start at 8:30 am and see how well I do to see if Shenandoah 100 or Leadville MTB 100 is more than a wet dream. I also ordered three of the 2 oz bottles for the TW. As this will be my first long distance race...uh I mean, ride I have no idea about anything.

    I'm thinking how hard can it be to tear open a single serving pack of TW into a bottle, but I remember doing some asinine stuff in an oxygen deprived state during races, so I ordered some containers, too.

    Stuart

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hey Stuart!
    I'll be with a small group associated with a large group, as silly as that sounds. I'm confident a couple/few of us will head out as close to the start time as possible. I'm treating the Quantico Epic (Montezuma's Revenge) as a tune-up for the Mohican 100, so I'm not going to kill myself, but there will be no dilly-dallying either.
    My experience is that the TW packets tear 1/2 way across then turn and tear length-wise. You have to be careful to not have the powder spill out. When you are crouched over, shaking, in a hurry, and trying to do with your gloves on, this can be maddening.
    Will Niccolls took an "infamous" pic of me in this operation/position at the last aid station (mile 92) of the SM100 last year:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater


    BTW, you CAN do the SM100. Register and commit. After you press <<send>> you will be scared to death, but you can do it, for sure!

    Racing at Conway Robinson today? Hope to see you there...
    Matt Eggleton
    I just wanna ride...

  34. #34
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    Nice pic! Lol.

    I registered for the con rob, but can't make it today ... for various reasons, I'm not racing as much this year - not to mention the dearth of races nearby - but I have started laying the ground work for intensive lobbying efforts at home for the SM100 either this year or next year at the latest. Good luck and go fast over the rocks at con rob!
    '15 Specialized Epic Expert Carbon World Cup

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaMustang View Post
    Tom,
    I just ordered eight of those little 2 oz bottles. I plan to carry three with me (in addition to the two liters of mixed TW in my CamelBak) at my next endurance event - planning on 6 hrs (in 3 weeks). I'll let you know how it goes for me. It's got to be better than tearing open the packets with gloves on in the middle of an event!
    Thanks from a fellow TW Trailblazer!
    Matt Eggleton

    P.S. Interested in hearing more about that siphoning technique!
    Crush it Matt!

    Good call on getting the bottles. Not only is it easier to unscrew the cap than tear open a packet, no trash to worry about.

    I'm going to make a short video about how I do my little siphon-and-mix dance. I'll post it up when I get a chance.

    EDIT: shot a quick and dirty short film

    Last edited by TomP; 04-02-2017 at 08:39 AM.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBaron View Post
    Since it looks like the OP is getting some good info into his question, can I steer the topic a bit (based on some things that have been discussed here)?

    I've done much endurance racing in the passed. Specializing in 4-6 hr events and some occasional 12hrs. I've been away from he scene for about 5 yrs and am now working back to that level of fitness. I've got my system worked out pretty well for me. However, none of it is liquid calories. I've tried some of the options and they always leave me bloated and gassy. I feel like my body doesn't process the stuff very well. But I do like the idea of it and after reading some of these replies I'm wondering if there are options that are known to be a little easier on the digestive tract? I need to look into this Tailwind option, everyone seems to be keen on it.

    All that being said, I recently tried to use some "vegan electrolyte" mix (as a healthy gatroaide substitute), and very quickly detected the same flavor/sensation that gave me issues in the past. But I can't pinpoint the EXACT ingredient that does it.

    Thanks
    CJB
    I am not real good with all the nutrition science like some people, I just try a lot of different things and see what works for me. As a guy who has a very sensitive stomach, I can honestly say that I had amazing luck with Tailwind. I used it for the first time in a longer race during BT Epic last year, and it worked wonders. Not a single stomach cramp and my energy levels stayed up for the entire race.

    I highly recommend it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    I have raced a lot of endurance lap style races and a few single loop 100K races. The lap style time races, like a 6 or 12 hour is easy to coordinate the logistics for them as you ride by them every lap. I have been able to handle 100K distances as far as hydration but seem to struggle with nutrition some, I tend to not carry enough therefore I don't take in enough to fuel properly.

    I am working on a mostly liquid based fuel source for the long distance rides and races and plan on having only minimal solid food just incase, along with gel in a flask or two for an emergency. I will be doing at least 2 100 mile, 1 100K, a 24 hour, a 12 hour and a 6 hour races this year along with several long (50 plus) unsupported training rides.

    How do y'all carry the nutrition you use during such rides and races? I had rather not rely on aid stations in races for anything other than water. I of course will be eating some of their food, but not depending on it. I will be wearing my hydration pack which is an Osprey Raptor 14 and have thought about bags like the JPacks.

    Thanks for any input!
    You have to pack it that is all.

    I have been doing unsupported 5-12hr rides/races for a few years now and part of the challenge any of these non lap style races is carrying food/water. You need to learn what your body need for both hydration and food and then how to carry and access that. There are no hard and fast rules since everyone is different. About the only rule is not try something new on race day.

    Here is my preference and what works for me.
    Camelbak - 3L bladder with straight water
    Bike - 2 bottles with electroltye tabs in them

    Food
    Small food bag on top tube (actually kids climbing bag on stem) holding 3-6 cliff bars and 6 salt stick capsules.
    - I have learned that I do best eating real food every 2 hrs in to the ride. If I go longer in between food stops I tend to get behind and it hard to catch up. I need to consume calories BEFORE I need them.

    Some people like nibble on food every 30-40 min, but I get distracted and just seem to work better on a bar every 2hrs. I rotate the flavor of the bars to help.

    Now on really long bike packing rides I have started bringing slim jim mini's they fit in the same bag and provide nice strong salt taste to help keep me going. Again not every will like that.

    In the end you have to experiment and see what works for your body.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbell View Post
    Dld, I had no idea about the Gatoraid thing. Thank you for sharing that, very interesting! I am really enjoying this thread as race nutrition is all I have been thinking about all winter. I have some good ideas that I want to test come spring, and now thanks to y'all I they have become even more refined. I cant wait until things thaw out here in Maine, long winters!

    CBaron, I really like the idea of setting an alarm every 50 min or so to keep me on track with my nutrition. I have a lot of experience with timed lap races (6 to 12 hours) and as I said before they are easy both logistically and with timing of nutrition as most of them have 45min to 1 hour lap times. Last year I started the single lap 100K and this year I am giving some 100 miler NUE races a shot, so keeping aware of the time is going to be something that I have not practiced much. I think the alarm could be a great way to keep from getting caught up in the racing so much that I forget about nutrition.

    I really appreciate all the suggestions thus far! Cant wait to get off the trainer and outside to test this out!
    I use a hydration pack for mountain bike races - easier to drink from vs. having to reach for bottles on the trail. Its a 3L Camelbak, so I fill at the beginning, and again at the midpoint for a 6 hr race (single lap). I add electrolyte tablets (no calories) in the camelbak - that way when I drink, I'm getting water, and electrolytes at the same time.

    For nutrition, I fill two 5-oz Hammer flasks with concentrated perpetuem mix. Each flask is good for 2 hours (400 calories in each), and I keep these in a top tube bag - makes accessing them easy. For hours 5 and 6, I'll either use a 3rd perpetuem flask, or if its warmer, I use perpetuem solids instead (liquid perpetuem can go off after 6 or so hrs in hot weather). If I use the solids, I keep them in 2 tubes in my jersey pocket (6 solids, 200 calories in each tube), and when I need them, empty the tubes into my top tube bag - again making it easy to access when I'm on the trail (I move the empty 5-oz flasks to my jersey pocket).

    I set a timer on my phone to go off every 20 mins to remind me to eat (and drink, although I usually drink enough - made easy due to the hydration pack). I eat 200 cals an hour pretty reliably this way.

    I like to keep my hydration and nutrition separate - in case my stomach starts to get a little off. In a race earlier this year, I unwisely drank 5-6 oz of coke at the last aid station at hour 5. It took only 5 mins for my stomach to rebel to the sudden influx of concentrated sugar, and for the last 1.5 hrs I wasn't able to consume any more food - just water/electrolyte. So good that I didn't have my nutrition mixed with my water.
    While I love coke after a race, I learned a lesson that sugar doesn't work with my system when its stressed like it is during a race.

    For road racing, my plan is similar, although I swap the hydration pack for 2 water bottles. Getting water bottles in/out of the bottle cage is much easier on the road. For the LT100 this year, I've been debating between the hydration pack and water bottles. I'll like the idea of having nothing on my back so I cool easier, but more importantly I want to make sure I stay hydrated - so will likely go with the hydration pack. Even though the LT100 is some ways more like a road race than a mtn bike race, there are still some extended sections where it would be hard to drink from a bottle e.g. during the columbine descent.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigWheels7 View Post
    I use a hydration pack for mountain bike races - easier to drink from vs. having to reach for bottles on the trail. Its a 3L Camelbak, so I fill at the beginning, and again at the midpoint for a 6 hr race (single lap). I add electrolyte tablets (no calories) in the camelbak - that way when I drink, I'm getting water, and electrolytes at the same time.

    For nutrition, I fill two 5-oz Hammer flasks with concentrated perpetuem mix. Each flask is good for 2 hours (400 calories in each), and I keep these in a top tube bag - makes accessing them easy. For hours 5 and 6, I'll either use a 3rd perpetuem flask, or if its warmer, I use perpetuem solids instead (liquid perpetuem can go off after 6 or so hrs in hot weather). If I use the solids, I keep them in 2 tubes in my jersey pocket (6 solids, 200 calories in each tube), and when I need them, empty the tubes into my top tube bag - again making it easy to access when I'm on the trail (I move the empty 5-oz flasks to my jersey pocket).

    I set a timer on my phone to go off every 20 mins to remind me to eat (and drink, although I usually drink enough - made easy due to the hydration pack). I eat 200 cals an hour pretty reliably this way.

    I like to keep my hydration and nutrition separate - in case my stomach starts to get a little off. In a race earlier this year, I unwisely drank 5-6 oz of coke at the last aid station at hour 5. It took only 5 mins for my stomach to rebel to the sudden influx of concentrated sugar, and for the last 1.5 hrs I wasn't able to consume any more food - just water/electrolyte. So good that I didn't have my nutrition mixed with my water.
    While I love coke after a race, I learned a lesson that sugar doesn't work with my system when its stressed like it is during a race.

    For road racing, my plan is similar, although I swap the hydration pack for 2 water bottles. Getting water bottles in/out of the bottle cage is much easier on the road. For the LT100 this year, I've been debating between the hydration pack and water bottles. I'll like the idea of having nothing on my back so I cool easier, but more importantly I want to make sure I stay hydrated - so will likely go with the hydration pack. Even though the LT100 is some ways more like a road race than a mtn bike race, there are still some extended sections where it would be hard to drink from a bottle e.g. during the columbine descent.
    Your plan sounds solid. I am doing Leadville this year too, and considering using my hydration pack (Camelack Lobo, 3L) for the race. I normally only ride with the pack during long rides in the AZ summer, and have actually grown pretty used to it in my training rides. Best of luck to you, and thanks for your insight on how you approach nutrition and hydration. Good stuff!
    I was too drunk and too much in pain to ride. Good times. - TacoBeer

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    Your plan sounds solid. I am doing Leadville this year too, and considering using my hydration pack (Camelack Lobo, 3L) for the race. I normally only ride with the pack during long rides in the AZ summer, and have actually grown pretty used to it in my training rides. Best of luck to you, and thanks for your insight on how you approach nutrition and hydration. Good stuff!
    For Leadville, what aid stations are you planning on having your crew at? I'm thinking just Twin Lakes, and get additional water if needed at the Carter Summit aid station on the way back. This is my first time riding the 100, so trying to learn what I can on how to plan!

  41. #41
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    I am working on having some Denver friends come up and hang out at Twin Lakes, but really just plan on hitting the aid stations for water/snacks in addition to what I will carry.
    I was too drunk and too much in pain to ride. Good times. - TacoBeer

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