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  1. #1
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    Mixing Hammer Perpetuem...

    Okay, I have a question on how to mix the Perpetuem. I read on the Hammer site that I could make a "4 hour bottle" and wanted to try that today (my final endurance prep ride for a 50 I've got coming up). The site says...

    # The Multi–Hour Bottle – This is by far the most convenient method of fueling because it allows you to be self–sufficient for many hours, requiring only additional plain water along the way. The only limitation is how many scoops you can fit into a bottle. Determine your proper hourly intake of scoops by experimenting with the numbers from the dosage charts. Let’s say you’ve determined through testing that two scoops of Sustained Energy or Perpetuem per hour is your ideal caloric intake. For a four–hour workout, you’ll need eight scoops in a bottle, then filled with water and shaken well. You may need to add a few scoops at a time to get it all to mix well. You then “nurse” this bottle, taking small sips every 15–20 minutes.

    At this concentration, the water in the mixed bottle does not contribute much at all to your hourly fluid intake needs. To meet your fluid requirements, you can carry a second and possibly even a third bottle of plain water, use a hydration system, or know where you can refill along your route. Drink according to the temperature/humidity and your exertion level so that you consume in the range of 16–28 ounces (approx 475–830 ml) of plain water per hour.* This way, as long as you can obtain water along the way, you’re set for hours of hard training.


    That sounded like a good solution, so I put a bit of water in, then 2 scoops, shook it up. Then a bit more water, 2 more scoops, shook it up. So and and so forth until the final 2 scoops to total 8 scoops. Shook that up and all I got from the final 2 scoops was floating debris/chunks. It wouldn't mix.

    What do I need? A blender? Has anyone had any luck getting 8 scoops to mix with water in a bottle?

    The good news, is that I did about 40 miles today with my one "4 hour bottle", a bottle of Heed the first hour, and a fresh bottle of water every 50 minutes. 2 Gels were consumed in there somewhere and one 8 ounce bottle of Pickle Juice. A few Endurolytes tablets every hour and 3 maple walnut bites at about the 3 hour point as well. Stomach felt great, and all went well with the "experiment".

    I just want to know if it is even possible to get 8 scoops of Perpetuem to mix in a water bottle.

    BB

  2. #2
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    Hey, I'm also new to Perpetuem - used it for a couple practice rides and I think two races now - and I did the multi-hour bottle for the Tahoe-Sierra 100. It worked out well for me. I filled two small Camelbak bottles almost completely full of dry Perpetuem powder, maybe 1.5" to 2" from the rim, the day before the race. One hour before the race (5AM) I filled them slowly with water so that they were completely full and shook them as best I could. With that much powder, you are not going to completely mix the liquid/solid, and there will be chunks. (chewy, but they passed through the nozzle) The consistency is like pancake batter. I found it agreeable and useful on the trail. As I got a little room in each bottle, I'd add some water at aid stations and shake it to liquefy the whole thing, and make it easier to take in.

    I finished the race (83 miles, 10:49:00) with maybe 1/3 or 1/2 left in one bottle, and the other empty. I ate little bits at the aid stations, mostly focusing on electrolytes and quick sugars. I also ate a clif bar and some gels too, but most of my calories came from this mixture. It worked well for me. I went through a lot of water in my 100oz hydration pack, with about 4 Nuun tablets per 100oz at a time, maybe 400oz. Probably also 20 or so electrolyte pills. It was warm but not as hot as it could have been. I'm 6'2", 210lbs.

    Here's my race report, it's long.

    Morgan
    Last edited by morganfletcher; 08-25-2011 at 10:40 AM.

  3. #3
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    I can't take the perpetuem any more without nausea 40-50 miles into a race. Tatses like monkey butt too


    I use the Perpetuem solids now...love em, and easy to guage caloric intake by them (3 tabs = 100 cal).

    I put them in my drop bags.



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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSWMTB View Post
    I can't take the perpetuem any more without nausea 40-50 miles into a race. Tatses like monkey butt too


    I use the Perpetuem solids now...love em, and easy to guage caloric intake by them (3 tabs = 100 cal).

    I put them in my drop bags.
    I thought about those as well, but I already own the container of the drink mix. I don't mind the taste and have yet to experience any nausea. Of course, I only did 40 miles off road yesterday. Maybe consuming more than the 8 scoops would have sent me over the edge. I chose yesterday for the simulation since it was 92 degrees and very humid. Previously, I've only used Perpetuem for races in the 3-4 hour range and only in bottles for the final hour or two of those events. But those didn't have that many scoops in them and there was no formation of chunks like my bottle yesterday due to 8 scoops.

    I'm also interested in trying the EFS products, but no time to really test them out before the event so I will probably go with what I own and have used at this point. I was just curious if anyone had some tips on how to better mix a multi-hour bottle that I will carry.

    BB

  5. #5
    jms
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    I was just curious if anyone had some tips on how to better mix a multi-hour bottle that I will carry.BB
    Mix it a day ahead of time and refrigerate. The chunks tend to dissolve and the consistency and flavor improves.
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  6. #6
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    Might be just as easy to carry a few zip locks with the mixture and just add it in at the aide station...less than a minute....and have to fill the waterbottle anyways. Jason Dal

  7. #7
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    Put the water and powder in a bowl and mix it up! Then pour into a bottle It is easy to get it all dissolved that way.

    I've also found that using the unflavored Perpetum and adding a scoop or two of lemon-lime Heed in place of a scoop or two of Perpetum improves the taste * immensely*.

    Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Okay, I have a question on how to mix the Perpetuem. I read on the Hammer site that I could make a "4 hour bottle" and wanted to try that today (my final endurance prep ride for a 50 I've got coming up). The site says...

    # The Multi–Hour Bottle – This is by far the most convenient method of fueling because it allows you to be self–sufficient for many hours, requiring only additional plain water along the way. The only limitation is how many scoops you can fit into a bottle. Determine your proper hourly intake of scoops by experimenting with the numbers from the dosage charts. Let’s say you’ve determined through testing that two scoops of Sustained Energy or Perpetuem per hour is your ideal caloric intake. For a four–hour workout, you’ll need eight scoops in a bottle, then filled with water and shaken well. You may need to add a few scoops at a time to get it all to mix well. You then “nurse” this bottle, taking small sips every 15–20 minutes.

    At this concentration, the water in the mixed bottle does not contribute much at all to your hourly fluid intake needs. To meet your fluid requirements, you can carry a second and possibly even a third bottle of plain water, use a hydration system, or know where you can refill along your route. Drink according to the temperature/humidity and your exertion level so that you consume in the range of 16–28 ounces (approx 475–830 ml) of plain water per hour.* This way, as long as you can obtain water along the way, you’re set for hours of hard training.


    That sounded like a good solution, so I put a bit of water in, then 2 scoops, shook it up. Then a bit more water, 2 more scoops, shook it up. So and and so forth until the final 2 scoops to total 8 scoops. Shook that up and all I got from the final 2 scoops was floating debris/chunks. It wouldn't mix.

    What do I need? A blender? Has anyone had any luck getting 8 scoops to mix with water in a bottle?

    The good news, is that I did about 40 miles today with my one "4 hour bottle", a bottle of Heed the first hour, and a fresh bottle of water every 50 minutes. 2 Gels were consumed in there somewhere and one 8 ounce bottle of Pickle Juice. A few Endurolytes tablets every hour and 3 maple walnut bites at about the 3 hour point as well. Stomach felt great, and all went well with the "experiment".

    I just want to know if it is even possible to get 8 scoops of Perpetuem to mix in a water bottle.

    BB
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    Joe Partridge

  8. #8
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    A flask is my preferred method to carry up to 4 scoops. Mix in a bowl into a pancake batter-like consistency; pour into flask (a funnel helps); & freeze. Two hours into your ride is the suggested time to start consuming & by then it will have melted enough to "sip." Flasks are available from Hammer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbik View Post
    Might be just as easy to carry a few zip locks with the mixture and just add it in at the aide station...less than a minute....and have to fill the waterbottle anyways. Jason Dal
    I thought about that too, Jason. But I gotta make sure I pass you at one of the aid stations while you are stopped and mixing your drinks.

    Even if I do use a "4 hour bottle", I would still need to bring along some mix along for the 5th hour+ - so I could just bring the zip locks and do it as a routine at the aid stations.

    I think if I ran the mixture through a small blender, I could easily get it to mix up without any floating chunks the morning of (or night before and put it in the fridge).

    Otherwise, the tips/tricks from everyone else sound like a good solution as well (mixing in a bowl, storing it in the fridge over night, mixing a little Heed in with it for flavor, etc...).

    BB

  10. #10
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    BB, try using a Blender Bottle. Used one to mix up Gu Brew for a recent race and was very impressed with the efficacy. Haven't tried it with Perpetuem (because I no longer use Hammer products) but it works great at mixing recovery drinks so I think it should work well for you.

  11. #11
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    Blender bottle worked fine for me when mixing up thick mixes of Perpetuem. Unfortunately, the Perpetuem didn't work well for me, so now I just go with Infinit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastezzie View Post
    BB, try using a Blender Bottle. Used one to mix up Gu Brew for a recent race and was very impressed with the efficacy. Haven't tried it with Perpetuem (because I no longer use Hammer products) but it works great at mixing recovery drinks so I think it should work well for you.
    Thanks guys. Blender Bottle looks good and will travel well to the event compared to a blender.

  13. #13
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    for some reason, infinit has a soapy taste to me...

    I use perp with gatorade, two scoops perp / 1 gator per bottle. One bottle per 20 miles
    plus 2 endurolyte tabs per hour
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  14. #14
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    You don't need the whole blender bottle, I've raced with a blender ball in a camelback bottle makes it waaay easier... Just fits in the bottle and you can start drinking directly after leaving an aid station

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  15. #15
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    use a home blender, then stick in bottle in freezer, so it stays frozen/chilled while travelling to the race. Depending on how frozen it is, I might take it out of the cooler the night before...and then an hour or two of wind "chill" while you ride thaws it out the rest of the way (if it still needs it)...

    see you at dakota50!
    Last edited by rapwithtom; 08-25-2011 at 09:44 PM.
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  16. #16
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    I have used a food processer before. Our Dr. Brown baby formula mixer works great for this, too.


    When I used to try and make the highly concentrated paste to use in a flask I had good luck with a small food processor like this. If I remember right it was just big enough for one flask-worth.
    Last edited by ewarnerusa; 08-29-2011 at 04:07 PM. Reason: added the food processor pic

  17. #17
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    I'm glad I read through this post. I use perp, but never mixed with gatorade, that should help the taste. I am going to try it on my next training ride. Thanks oldassracer!

  18. #18
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    Personally, using the multihour bottle didn't work as well as the snack-sized ziplock baggies with a Perp/Heed mix. I used a Crown Royal bag and an Awesome Strap to carry 'em.
    I plan on using the Perp chews in my Feedbag from here on out.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    I have used a food processer before. Our Dr. Brown baby formula mixer works great for this, too.



    Now THAT is a cool looking contraption!




    .

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSWMTB View Post
    Now THAT is a cool looking contraption!




    .
    Yeah, it was a huge help when my kids were going through formula! I have identical twin boys and my daily routine was to get up at 5:00 am and make 9 bottles of formula for the day. I could make them all at once with this device. At some point during a groggy morning a light bulb went off and I thought about how well it would work to fully dissolve Perpetuem. Do a google search for Dr Browns baby formula mixer for lots of shopping results.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Mix it a day ahead of time and refrigerate. The chunks tend to dissolve and the consistency and flavor improves.
    Even better is freeze it the day before. Make sure to take it out so it defrost or leave room to top off so you get it melting. Freezing seems to really make a huge difference IMHO

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