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  1. #1
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    Leadville tire choice for 29er Arch...help please...

    My new wheelset finally arrived from I9...took way long but am now going to go pick them up in the next 2 days and am looking for input from those who have an opinion on what tire choice I should put on these hoops tubeless. I9 with Stans Arch...

    Have heard/read that the Crossmark is a better tire than the Small Block 8's and have also gotten a recommendation for Bonty XDX's. I want to go tubeless and will bring tubes with me on the ride but also want to finish...help please!

    massalsa

    ps--will also be doing some races here in the midwest prior to LV100 but really am getting geared up for Leadville...then Cheq 40...

  2. #2
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    I've ridden Panaracer Fire XC Pros - fine.
    Continetnal Speed Kings - bad
    Two years I can't remember what, but whatever they were, they were fine.

    I've been riding the Crossmark (26) tubeless so far this year. Based on the way it rides and what seems to work at Leadville, it seems like it'll be a great tire for the race.

    Lots of tire discussion if you do a search on the Yahoo Leadville group over the years.

    For what it's worth, I'm a 11.5 - 12.25 hour type guy...The Conti's cost me about 20 minutes last year with a double flat, but that's no real excuse, 'cause there's always something!

  3. #3
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    Look at Specialized Fast track tyres as well.

    Fast track on the back and a captain on the front seems to work quite well for me.

  4. #4
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    I haven't done Leadville (yet, I'm in for this year!) but have a number of friends who've done it. From what I've been told and from what I've read, there's very little to any terrain that would require any more traction than you'd get from Stan's Crows, or perhaps the Ravens if you're like me and just can't quite bear the thought of the uber-low profile of the Crow's side knobs.

  5. #5
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    Crow rear, Raven front. Take your time going down the Powerline section on the way out -- can't win it there, can certainly lose it there no matter what tire you're running -- and you'll be rolling the lightest/fastest setup possible for a 29er at Leadville.

  6. #6
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    Racing Ralph with snakeskin sidewalls. Roll extremely fast, good volume, actually has a tread when needed. Great all around tire. I have been the running the 2.25 regular sidewall version for three months now with no problems.

  7. #7
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    I'll be running Ravens front and rear. Never done the race, but the tires worked well for me at Cohutta and from what I understand Leadville will not require much more out of a tire.

    LP

  8. #8
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    A few years ago, about 3 miles into the PbVille 100, a sound like a gun shot was heard...a few seconds later I rode past a guy sitting in the bushes with the white goo all over him and his bike. Running a non-tubeless tire with Stans. If this is going to happen to you, just don't do it right in front of me where I will run over you. ;-)

    Much of the Leadville course is smoothish dirt, or even pavement, but there are a few rocky or rutted descents to deal with. I have been considering the Ravens but I am a big guy (185lbs by race day or less I hope) so they really appear to just be too light for me. It will likely either be the Pythons, or possibly Fast Traks this year. SB8's worked great for me a couple years ago but I ran tubes then. If you are a lightweight, the Raven might suit you fine, at least they have beads designed to be run tubeless.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyonrat
    A few years ago, about 3 miles into the PbVille 100, a sound like a gun shot was heard...a few seconds later I rode past a guy sitting in the bushes with the white goo all over him and his bike. Running a non-tubeless tire with Stans.
    While I would never suggest a neophyte with the Stan's system use it for Leadville, my guess (educated by 4 Leadville races) is that there are more pinch flats of tubed-tires on the Powerline outbound every year than there have ever been failures of Stan's/Ghetto tubeless setups at that race. But again, if you're not using tubeless now I wouldn't recommend going to such a setup before this years race -- save it for next time, and give yourself plenty of time to work out any kinks.

    For what it's worth, I ran an Ignitor front and a Crow rear the last time I was there (ghetto tubeless) and they worked fine. The Maxxis Ignitor is by far the most aggressive tire I've run there and it was overkill. On the 26er for the first 3 rides I believe I was on Continental Twisters on the front and various semi-slicks on the rear. At Leadville, traction is not an issue -- rolling-resistance, however, is...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  10. #10
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    I didn't hear the sound, but

    Quote Originally Posted by canyonrat
    A few years ago, about 3 miles into the PbVille 100, a sound like a gun shot was heard...a few seconds later I rode past a guy sitting in the bushes with the white goo all over him and his bike. Running a non-tubeless tire with Stans. If this is going to happen to you, just don't do it right in front of me where I will run over you. ;-)
    I remember seeing that poor guy on the side of the trail - right at the turn off from the pavement, right? He sure looked bummed! At the time, I thought to myself - "that's why I'll never run tubeless".

    Then, last year, after a double pinch flat coming down Powerline, I started thinking the opposite...

    I've been running Maxxis Crossmark on Swiss DT rims tubeless with Stans for well over 500 miles now with no problem (knock on wood). If I do have a problem, now that I've said that, I can predict where it will happen at 6:35 AM on August 15th. Hope I haven't jinxed myself!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT
    While I would never suggest a neophyte with the Stan's system use it for Leadville, my guess (educated by 4 Leadville races) is that there are more pinch flats of tubed-tires on the Powerline outbound every year than there have ever been failures of Stan's/Ghetto tubeless setups at that race. But again, if you're not using tubeless now I wouldn't recommend going to such a setup before this years race -- save it for next time, and give yourself plenty of time to work out any kinks.

    For what it's worth, I ran an Ignitor front and a Crow rear the last time I was there (ghetto tubeless) and they worked fine. The Maxxis Ignitor is by far the most aggressive tire I've run there and it was overkill. On the 26er for the first 3 rides I believe I was on Continental Twisters on the front and various semi-slicks on the rear. At Leadville, traction is not an issue -- rolling-resistance, however, is...
    PeT, what is your weight...I am still sorta tempted on the Crow/Raven...

    I agree about the pinch-flats and making changes a few weeks before the race is normally not best, but with Arch rims and Python or Specialized 2bliss bead tires, it is just like using 26er UST with sealant. Put on the tire, pump it up with a floor pump, go ride. I would not suggest a stan's rimstrip, ghetto, or tubed-tire conversion to a neophyte either.

    The main places traction can be an issue is the top of Columbine descent, and the Powerline descent. Here-here on the rolling resistance thing, the paved climb back up St. Kevins on the return is a soul-crusher, that is all about rolling resistance and what you have left in the tank. But, a buddy of mine who rode 75% of the race with a broken collar bone a few years back after crashing on the powerline descent might disagree about traction not being an issue. Every year there are folks with too-low pressure along there also, one year a guy walking out with a taco'd wheel...so, just don't underestimate it.

    chuckred - yeah, that was the same guy with the Stan's flat...and I thought the exact same thing. Now I just run TLR bead tires with Stans rims...maybe a false sense of security but it is real easy to use and works for me! With tubes I used to run high pressures...29er with 38psi on the front to avoid those pinch flats...with tubeless 29x2.0's now I run like 30-32psi. I have heard lots of good comments on the Crossmark as a tubeless conversion...I just don't want to do any wood-knocking...my training got a little sidetracked this year so don't need more variables in the mix.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyonrat
    PeT, what is your weight...I am still sorta tempted on the Crow/Raven...
    165 lbs. The Crow was ridden for several hundred miles of rocky/cactus-infested Wyoming trail miles prior to the Leadville race. No dents in the rim, no sidewall cuts (and I've cut my share), no problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by canyonrat
    ...Python or Specialized 2bliss bead tires, it is just like using 26er UST with sealant.
    My issue with UST or even the tubeless-ready tires is the stiffer carcass negates the rolling resistance advantage of getting rid of the tube. Supple tires are fast tires. I feel quite confident with the ghetto system I've got going now, enough so that the bead issues sometimes associated with using standard (non-tubeless) tires don't worry me. Actually, I'm more confident about avoiding catastrophic flats with my ghetto tubeless than I am when running tubes.

    Quote Originally Posted by canyonrat
    The main places traction can be an issue is the top of Columbine descent, and the Powerline descent ... crashing on the powerline descent might disagree about traction not being an issue.
    Last time I was at Leadville I followed Ricky Garcia down the Powerline. He's a one-time local who has ridden and finished every Leadville 100, many of them well under 9 hours. At the bottom I thanked him for guiding me down safely and faster than I'd made it before, and he responded with something along the line of "what are these idiots thinking", referring to the half-dozen or so who had slid by us on the steep washed out section to gain 10 seconds on us. So, with all due respect to your friend, I still don't think tire choice is about traction -- it's what's best over the 8+ hours of the race and riding the short sketchy sections sanely. Heck, if the claim of 700 g for the Schwalbe Big Apple slicks is right, that might be the tire for Leadville...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  13. #13
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    Jump to 8:00
    http://www.velonews.tv/

    I dont want to start a whole LA vs. Weins thing. I just find it interesting that he is very very into smashing the record.

    J. Bishop is going too.


    Pick what ever tire you want to, but its not going to matter when the top 5 go off the front. A lot of those guys last year ran Stans tires.

  14. #14
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    I recommend Hutchinson Pythons for Leadville. They are fast rolling tires that are tubeless compatible. Also, the Crossmarks are great tires. I am blown away by how well they stick and dig. Not as fast as the Pythons though IMO.

  15. #15
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    I've only done it once, but didn't want to be suffering any lack of grip on any of the DH's or flats and ran Crossmark REAR/Ignitor FRONT. I flew down P'line and had amazing fun doing it and the Crossmark rolled quite well on the smooth gravel and else where. The Python would also be a good choice I think, but the Racing Ralph wouldn't IMHO (it rolls slower than the Crossmark for sure). Knew a woman who ran the Crows all round and she suffered a wipe out on P'line with them, she said she'd run them in the 50 and they worked fine, but I think conditions were a bit more tacky in that race comapred to the '07 100. FYI I ran tubes with both tyres pumped up around 45 PSI.
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  16. #16
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    I don't know why people make all this fuss about powerline. It wasn't that intimidating or crazy steep...loose in some sections, yes. Get over your back wheel, don't grab a lot of front brake and you're fine. You guys make it sound like its some kind of downhill race course. If you have any kind of bike handling skills, it's a breeze. This was last year, so maybe conditions in previous years were worse.
    I had a racing ralph up front and a small block 8 in the rear on a 355 and arch in the rear...probably overkill for the trail/road conditions. I'll be sporting Stan's crow or raven this year with no reservations. I was wishing for more traction in loose switchbacks coming down from columbine, but that's friggin' .0001% of the course.
    See ya August 15!
    -jon

    PS I bought my way in this year with the Carmichael training camp. I'm riding powerline and columbine this weekend at the camp, so I'll try and post an updated conditions/ruttedness of powerline report.

  17. #17
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    Very true, especially on a tyre combo like yours or mine, but on something like the Crows not so sure you can bomb it so easily. If you run the Crows/Ravens up there this weekend I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on how they handle compared to the previous setup.
    What I don't like about running them is how light and thin they are and the greater risk of tearing, ripping or pinch flatting them if you're pushing hard down say P'line and passing people out in the rough, off line.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlang002
    I don't know why people make all this fuss about powerline. It wasn't that intimidating or crazy steep...loose in some sections, yes. Get over your back wheel, don't grab a lot of front brake and you're fine. You guys make it sound like its some kind of downhill race course. If you have any kind of bike handling skills, it's a breeze. This was last year, so maybe conditions in previous years were worse.
    I had a racing ralph up front and a small block 8 in the rear on a 355 and arch in the rear...probably overkill for the trail/road conditions. I'll be sporting Stan's crow or raven this year with no reservations. I was wishing for more traction in loose switchbacks coming down from columbine, but that's friggin' .0001% of the course.
    See ya August 15!
    -jon

    PS I bought my way in this year with the Carmichael training camp. I'm riding powerline and columbine this weekend at the camp, so I'll try and post an updated conditions/ruttedness of powerline report.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Very true, especially on a tyre combo like yours or mine, but on something like the Crows not so sure you can bomb it so easily. If you run the Crows/Ravens up there this weekend I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on how they handle compared to the previous setup.
    What I don't like about running them is how light and thin they are and the greater risk of tearing, ripping or pinch flatting them if you're pushing hard down say P'line and passing people out in the rough, off line.
    I'll be running Racing Ralphs Friday and then pick up some Crows at the Cycles of Life for Saturday....I think they had some in stock last time I was there. If they don't, I'll just have to make a trip up there the week or two leading up to the 100 to try them out. In in Denver, so it's a short day trip.
    -jon

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    lucky you being so close. cant wait to hear about your tire testing. i am coming out august 2 for the 2 weeks prior to the race and will then be riding powerline and columbine and the rest of the course for the first time.

    Cant wait for your weekend report regarding the course and the tire set ups.

    massalsa

    Also thanks for your insights Lynx.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by massalsa
    lucky you being so close. cant wait to hear about your tire testing. i am coming out august 2 for the 2 weeks prior to the race and will then be riding powerline and columbine and the rest of the course for the first time.

    Cant wait for your weekend report regarding the course and the tire set ups.

    massalsa

    Also thanks for your insights Lynx.
    Well, I never did run Stan's tires this past weekend. I was riding with a Small Block 8 in the rear and 2.25 RR in the front. This combo worked very well and rolled fairly quick. The climbs were in amazing shape, including St. Kevin, Columbine, and Powerline. I doubt they'll be that firm come August 15 though, so expect loose conditions.

    I rescind my earlier statement about running Stan's tires in the race. I had forgotten how loose the powerline descent can get and I'd prefer a bit more control over a bit less rolling resistance. A Stan's tire may be a possibility in the rear, but I need to get back to Leadville one of these weekends and test ride it on Powerline and Columbine. I want something with some side knobs in the front. I found a Crow at Cycles of Life and will mount it up tubeless next weekend.

    After riding Powerline and Columbine, I thought to myself, "Wow, this isn't nearly as hard as last year," when I walked some of Columbine and Powerline. But, I wasn't 40+ miles into the race when you hit Columbine and 75 or so at Powerline on the way back. It's gonne be painful.

    Cheers!
    -jon

  21. #21
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    This will be my 6th Leadville. 3 on a 26 and 3 on a 29er.
    finished all with one sub 9 he finish. Good luck with Pythons for 3 finishes.
    SB8 good, last year Karma 1.95 ran tubed all years. Have some crows
    but concerned
    they may be too light I'm 180 lbs. Had 3 front tire
    sidewall issues
    from a defective Karma mounted 2 days before the event and nail in the rear.
    I always run higher psi at least 40 to 45. No pinch flats.
    Running SB8 this year tubed 44 rear and 40 front on DosNiner.
    I run Stans on a set of wheels I have but trust tubes and higher psi for Leadville. Touch training to take any chances.

  22. #22
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    Interesting thread..
    I'm 185 #'s and and running tubeless with UST rims.
    I trained on Crows last year and had a couple of flats on pavement and fire roads. Limited experience but the Crow wasn't durable for me.
    Road Pythons at Leadville and for lots of training without a problem.
    I'd like to ride the Crows/Ravens and save some weight but I'm not sure it is worth it????
    For me the Leadville question is durability vs weight. Traction not so much, but I'm a very slow descender.

  23. #23
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    My biggest Leadville mistake

    Quote Originally Posted by rides2slow
    Interesting thread..
    I'm 185 #'s and and running tubeless with UST rims.
    I trained on Crows last year and had a couple of flats on pavement and fire roads. Limited experience but the Crow wasn't durable for me.
    Road Pythons at Leadville and for lots of training without a problem.
    I'd like to ride the Crows/Ravens and save some weight but I'm not sure it is worth it????
    For me the Leadville question is durability vs weight. Traction not so much, but I'm a very slow descender.
    Despite knowing intellectually that it was the wrong thing to do, I got seduced into going with superlight tires (Continental Speed King Supersonic) shortly before the race. Despite getting 3 pinch flats in the first three rides, like a fool, I decided to keep using them and ended up with two more pinch flats during the race (and running 45 psi).

    The moral of the story to me is that you shouldn't be trying something new on race day, so unless you're totally comfortable that the choice you make to save weight isn't going to cost you more with other problems, I'd stay with what you're comfortable with. (Assuming that you're already using something XC friendly of course).

  24. #24
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    Very good advice.
    Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by chuckred
    Despite knowing intellectually that it was the wrong thing to do, I got seduced into going with superlight tires (Continental Speed King Supersonic) shortly before the race. Despite getting 3 pinch flats in the first three rides, like a fool, I decided to keep using them and ended up with two more pinch flats during the race (and running 45 psi).

    The moral of the story to me is that you shouldn't be trying something new on race day, so unless you're totally comfortable that the choice you make to save weight isn't going to cost you more with other problems, I'd stay with what you're comfortable with. (Assuming that you're already using something XC friendly of course).

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