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  1. #1
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    Lance going for 6 hours @ Leadville?

    So, when I decided I was going to do Leadville back in '07 I joined the yahoo Leadville group and still recieve their e-mails and sometimes there's some interesting stuff in there, like this interview with Lance saying that this entire year is a build up for Leadville and talking with "the right team" we can go 6 hours :eekster Looks like maybe Lance is either trying to play serious head games or plans on bringing tour type tactics to Leadville His interview is around the 9 minute mark.
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  2. #2
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    Seems a bit ambitious. However, we know he doesn't like to lose. I had a feeling that when he came in second, we'd see more of him.

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    Pretty crazy stuff, but I wouldn't doubt 6 hours. It is going to be an interesting race, I cannot wait!

  4. #4
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    Tour team tactics and Johan Bruneel riding along the trail handing off bottles, team radios, etc. Heck, Johan may even try to get his little team car out on the dirt roads and will fight with Ken if he doesn't let him....although my money is on ken, that guy has some guns on him!
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    i bet he might do it. especialially if Jeremiah Bishop is at his heels.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdudecycling
    Tour team tactics and Johan Bruneel riding along the trail handing off bottles, team radios, etc. !


    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


    You beat me to it...I was thinking he'd be on an ATV...


    No doubt about it...look up "Bad-A--" in the Cycling Dictionary, and Lance's picture is on top



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    It will be interesting if he races and bring teammates. I wonder how Wiens will fare with not just one rider who can keep up with one for most of the race, but a whole of slew of them to pull each other along. I would think part of Wiens success at Leadville has got to be an ability to perform well at altitude. Maybe he'll be the one who breaks another record if Lance shows up again with a bunch of teammates.

    What I'd really like to see is one of the elite roadies competing with elite mountain bikers on a true mountain biking course with a significant percentage of singletrack and some technical riding. I'm thinking guys like Armstrong, Contador, and others would do well at many World Cup XC events just because of their fitness, but I don't see them finishing among the elite World Cup XC racers on a real mountain bike course.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatorback
    What I'd really like to see is one of the elite roadies competing with elite mountain bikers on a true mountain biking course with a significant percentage of singletrack and some technical riding.
    So I assume you mean something other than Leadville?
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  9. #9
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    Is the Leadville 100 all dirt roads?



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  10. #10
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    No, there are some paved roads too.
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  11. #11
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    Sorry, I couldn't resist the snarky reply. Someone will probably have more accurate numbers but there is about 1/4 mile of singletrack, 5 miles of double-track, 25 miles of fire road, 50 miles of graded dirt road and 20 miles of paved road. The only really technically challenging parts are the Powerline Hill and the loose and rocky double track heading up to and down from Columbine Mine. However the extreme elevation and physical exhaustion make the race a lot more difficult then the course conditions would otherwise suggest.
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  12. #12
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    I love Lance and wish him the best, but now he's a pro again I wish he'd f*** off and leave PbVille to us amateurs.
    I didn't get in this year and probably won't next year either if it becomes another big media event like last time.
    Oh, and in case you think I'm just a hater, I REALLY appreciated seeing Lance sitting in his SUV incognito, watching all the slow riders (that would be me) at the bottom of Boulevard!

  13. #13
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    WTF did you find ST in Leadville the only thing even remotely resembling ST was the about 25m of it through to the damn on the way out, other than that there is no ST on that course.

    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473
    Sorry, I couldn't resist the snarky reply. Someone will probably have more accurate numbers but there is about 1/4 mile of singletrack, 5 miles of double-track, 25 miles of fire road, 50 miles of graded dirt road and 20 miles of paved road. The only really technically challenging parts are the Powerline Hill and the loose and rocky double track heading up to and down from Columbine Mine. However the extreme elevation and physical exhaustion make the race a lot more difficult then the course conditions would otherwise suggest.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    WTF did you find ST in Leadville the only thing even remotely resembling ST was the about 25m of it through to the damn on the way out, other than that there is no ST on that course.
    That's the section I was thinking about. I figure you go over it twice so that might round up to 1/4 a mile. But like I said, someone else probably has more accurate numbers.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker
    I love Lance and wish him the best, but now he's a pro again I wish he'd f*** off and leave PbVille to us amateurs.
    I didn't get in this year and probably won't next year either if it becomes another big media event like last time.
    Oh, and in case you think I'm just a hater, I REALLY appreciated seeing Lance sitting in his SUV incognito, watching all the slow riders (that would be me) at the bottom of Boulevard!

    So serious.

  16. #16
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    Likely that Levi won't show now with the broken wrist....or will he?
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  17. #17
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    It would be interesting to see LA at a race like the Breck 100. He has shown that he's a pretty good bike handler so I think he'd do pretty well. Tostado finished in something like 8:30 this year, I wonder what LA could do?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    Likely that Levi won't show now with the broken wrist....or will he?
    Leadville is 4 weeks away. Levi already said this injury will keep him out of anymore big races this year and that its likely the only races will be smaller US based races. Not sure if 4 weeks is enough for his wrist to recover, let alone to keep his fitness. My guess is he will be on the bike in a day or 2.

  19. #19
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    Well after watching todays stage I'd say Lance is going to Leadville in high condition and if he gets some team mates to go with him they might well get the time down close to 6 hours. Sure will be a very interesting race this year, would love to be there to watch it unforld.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    lance just posted on this twitter page that he can't wait for leadville. he will win this year with the condition he is in now. too bad levi got hurt, lance said he was going to get him out there too.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex
    lance just posted on this twitter page that he can't wait for leadville. he will win this year with the condition he is in now. too bad levi got hurt, lance said he was going to get him out there too.

    I don't know...his legs may be a little tired from the tour, 3 weeks isn't a ton of recovery time, plus not sure he's been staying at altitude, at least not Leadville altitute...Weins will have fresh legs...and im sure he wants to make it 7!!
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  22. #22
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    lance just did 21 days of 100+ mile rides with no rest and had no problems at all. I think in 3 weeks he will be perfectly strong for leadville. he does a lot of training at altitude in colorado, so I'm sure he'll be back there before leadville. should be really interesting.

  23. #23
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    Wink

    Stragne that the race has been pushed back a week later than usual - it's normally the 2nd Sat in August - wonder if maybe Ken and Merilee pushed it back to give Lance time to recover from the tour? Either way this is going to be a very interesting race this year wonder how close they'll come to the 6 hour mark?


    Quote Originally Posted by bigdudecycling
    I don't know...his legs may be a little tired from the tour, 3 weeks isn't a ton of recovery time, plus not sure he's been staying at altitude, at least not Leadville altitute...Weins will have fresh legs...and im sure he wants to make it 7!!
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  24. #24
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    <img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/3759676188_5b19de5a51_o.jpg" width="400" height="266" alt="Wiens/Lakata Trans-Alp 2009" /></a>

    <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3758879209_dcdba7a389_o.jpg" width="400" height="600" alt="Wiens/Lakata Trans-Alp 2009" /></a>

    ....and Wiens just finished up racing the 8 day Trans-Alp Stage Race. Wiens and his Austrian Marathon Champion and teammate, Alban Lakata, finished 7th overall.

    Wiens knows it.....any top mtber or road cyclist can win the Leadville 100. It takes the perfect race...and all a top rider can do is go out and hope for their nutrition, fitness, and equipment cards to fall their favor.

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    After watching this year's Tour, I can't imagine how Weins can beat Lance--barring an injury or a mechanical. Not to take anything away from the TransAlp (which is something I could *never* accomplish), but what those cyclists do in the TdF is just in a different league above anything else. 2200mi of distance; 300,000+ft of climbing; 21 days of riding and only TWO rest days?!?!

    A 100mi/14,000ft vertical day on dirt/paved roads should be a walk in the park for Lance...

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    "I love LA"... Randy Newman... Old song, new meaning.... Go Lance Armstrong.

  27. #27
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    So will Lance roll the SuperFly or the SuperFly 100? I certainly would not bet against Lance at the Leadville. Team Astana (or Radio Shack?) at Leadville. Now that would be a sight. Can you say FREIGHT TRAIN!

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    We already know that Lance has decent technical skills from previous MTB races and after seeing the condition that Lance is in now compared to last year I can't see anyone beating him at Leadville (barring injury or mechanical failure). In particular that climb he did up Mont Ventoux (nearly 7,000-foot ascent at an average gradient of 7.6 percent at the end of a 103.8-mile stage) was amazing.

  29. #29
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Dave's a super cool Guy

    Well Jeff, I hope Dave really has kicked up his training from last year, as Lance surely has. I've met Dave twice, once in '07 at Leadville and then last August out on Hartman Rocks and he's a really good guy I hope he can hold off the attacks and win it again, but it'll take some serious effort as everyone knows the shape Lance was in last year and the shape he's in now and there's no comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
    <img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/3759676188_5b19de5a51_o.jpg" width="400" height="266" alt="Wiens/Lakata Trans-Alp 2009" /></a>
    ....and Wiens just finished up racing the 8 day Trans-Alp Stage Race. Wiens and his Austrian Marathon Champion and teammate, Alban Lakata, finished 7th overall.

    Wiens knows it.....any top mtber or road cyclist can win the Leadville 100. It takes the perfect race...and all a top rider can do is go out and hope for their nutrition, fitness, and equipment cards to fall their favor.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Man, I am so pulling for Wiens in this one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingobong
    We already know that Lance has decent technical skills from previous MTB races and after seeing the condition that Lance is in now compared to last year I can't see anyone beating him at Leadville (barring injury or mechanical failure). In particular that climb he did up Mont Ventoux (nearly 7,000-foot ascent at an average gradient of 7.6 percent at the end of a 103.8-mile stage) was amazing.
    The climb is about 3800 ft. elevation at the top is ~7000 but it doesn't start from sea level.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshies
    Not to take anything away from the TransAlp (which is something I could *never* accomplish), but what those cyclists do in the TdF is just in a different league above anything else. 2200mi of distance; 300,000+ft of climbing; 21 days of riding and only TWO rest days?!?!
    Where did you pull those numbers from? I tried searching, and there seems to be no exact info about the elevation gain at TdF. The general note is "like climbing 3 Everests", which would come around 27000 m (3+ times smaller then you posted).
    At the same time TransAlp has about 22000 m of elevation gain in 8 days. I did TransAlp last year and while it's 3 times shorter than TdF (in time spent riding), it's average intensity is higher. TdF GC guys (like Lance) are spending alot of time deep inside the peloton, so I'm sure Dave's legs are not any fresher then Lance's.

    However, I think, Dave's chances against Lance are slim - the guy is much stronger, than he was a year ago.

    P.S. TransAlp was shortened this year because of severe weather condition during the first two days. They had like 6,5 stages.
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    An email from the LT100 folks a few weeks ago said Tinker Juarez is registered, and there is a rumor that Jeremiah Bishop is also going to be there.

    It would be cool if JHK would also ride. He spends the summer just over a few ranges in Winter Park, and since he is the reigning USAC Marathon Champ, (as well as XC champ), he would put up a good fight. I'm sure Ken and Merilee would find room for him, especially if Lance wanted the company.

    I can't imagine anyone beating Armstrong. A TdF podium finisher is a completely different animal from even an elite mountain bike racer. So much of Leadville is non-technical climbing, that it really plays into Lance's strengths. Not that he is chopped liver in the technical sections either, from what I hear.

  34. #34
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    I'm looking for Lance to try the GDR next year....
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    An email from the LT100 folks a few weeks ago said Tinker Juarez is registered, and there is a rumor that Jeremiah Bishop is also going to be there.

    It would be cool if JHK would also ride. He spends the summer just over a few ranges in Winter Park, and since he is the reigning USAC Marathon Champ, (as well as XC champ), he would put up a good fight. I'm sure Ken and Merilee would find room for him, especially if Lance wanted the company.

    I can't imagine anyone beating Armstrong. A TdF podium finisher is a completely different animal from even an elite mountain bike racer. So much of Leadville is non-technical climbing, that it really plays into Lance's strengths. Not that he is chopped liver in the technical sections either, from what I hear.
    Yeah, Ken made the announcement at the Silver Rush that Tinker is racing...he also didn't rule out Levi, but I can't see him racing on a healing wrist so soon.
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    I got them from the Bicycling magazine website. They have GPS data for every 2009 TdF stage. Just add up the elevation gain and you get something like 344,000ft or 105,000m. Anyways, it's a bit more than 3 Everests.

    You can find them here: http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com...?tripId=429312

    Quote Originally Posted by slyboots
    Where did you pull those numbers from? I tried searching, and there seems to be no exact info about the elevation gain at TdF. The general note is "like climbing 3 Everests", which would come around 27000 m (3+ times smaller then you posted).
    At the same time TransAlp has about 22000 m of elevation gain in 8 days. I did TransAlp last year and while it's 3 times shorter than TdF (in time spent riding), it's average intensity is higher. TdF GC guys (like Lance) are spending alot of time deep inside the peloton, so I'm sure Dave's legs are not any fresher then Lance's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshies
    I got them from the Bicycling magazine website. They have GPS data for every 2009 TdF stage. Just add up the elevation gain and you get something like 344,000ft or 105,000m. Anyways, it's a bit more than 3 Everests.

    You can find them here: http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com...?tripId=429312
    Eh? Wouldn't 3 Everests be more along the lines of 90,000' ?

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    Sorry, sarcasm...

    It's a hell of a lot more than 3 Everests...

    Quote Originally Posted by jlang002
    Eh? Wouldn't 3 Everests be more along the lines of 90,000' ?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshies
    I got them from the Bicycling magazine website. They have GPS data for every 2009 TdF stage. Just add up the elevation gain and you get something like 344,000ft or 105,000m. Anyways, it's a bit more than 3 Everests.

    You can find them here: http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com...?tripId=429312
    Yeah, I had a look there. Their numbers are total BS.
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  40. #40
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    Holy crap, this is sounding to be a very star studed race this year Wonder if they'll smash ther 6 hours barrier with all those guns coming out for it

    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    An email from the LT100 folks a few weeks ago said Tinker Juarez is registered, and there is a rumor that Jeremiah Bishop is also going to be there.

    It would be cool if JHK would also ride. He spends the summer just over a few ranges in Winter Park, and since he is the reigning USAC Marathon Champ, (as well as XC champ), he would put up a good fight. I'm sure Ken and Merilee would find room for him, especially if Lance wanted the company.

    I can't imagine anyone beating Armstrong. A TdF podium finisher is a completely different animal from even an elite mountain bike racer. So much of Leadville is non-technical climbing, that it really plays into Lance's strengths. Not that he is chopped liver in the technical sections either, from what I hear.
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    Nothing against the roadies riding the tour but I have more respect for the folks who race the Trail Divide. 2745 miles and over 200,000 feet of climbing with no support and no scheduled rest days. As to Leadville, I want to see Dave win again and expect that it will be a record year no matter who crosses the finish line first if the weather is good.

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    the fact that everyone feels it takes a guy who just got third at the Tour De France to beat Wiens, is a real testiment to how good Dave is! And yes the TD/GDR is way more bad ass than the Tour... no daily post-ride massages or safety vehicles.
    Last edited by Lutzy; 07-27-2009 at 07:49 PM.

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    Just to stir things up a bit, I read this article in Last months(?) Bicycling magazine:

    http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...9641-1,00.html

    I wonder how any of the regular pro teams would do with this event.

    This years tour was a lot of fun to watch, I look forward to any sort of feed from
    Leadville.

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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12wheels
    Nothing against the roadies riding the tour but I have more respect for the folks who race the Trail Divide. 2745 miles and over 200,000 feet of climbing with no support and no scheduled rest days. As to Leadville, I want to see Dave win again and expect that it will be a record year no matter who crosses the finish line first if the weather is good.
    Apples and oranges. Two totally different types of competitions. Regardless - and no disrespect of those who do things like the GDR - there is no way you can compare the aerobic intensity and level of competition of the Tour to something like the GDR. Not to mention, the L100 is about as close to a road race as a mountain bike 100 miler can be (that's why I've said it would be interesting to see LA compete in a race like the Breck 100). No diss to Weins, he's a mountain bike legend and a beast, but I'd guess that he'd tell you that even when he was competing on the MTB WC level, it was several notches below what the grand tour guys compete at.

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    i think weins et al are only a notch down in pure aerobic fitness. technical skills are a different matter entirely.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by markf
    i think weins et al are only a notch down in pure aerobic fitness. technical skills are a different matter entirely.
    Maybe, Wiens in his prime was only a notch or two below pro tour riders, but he hasn't competed at that level in a long time. LA has spent the summer doing the Giro and TDF competing with the very best in the world. Nothing against the trans alps or the L100, or the other races he's been doing, but those are basically citizens races that have a pro field, they're not top of the line pro fields.
    Look at the Firecracker. It's a great race, not easy at all. Dave was 11th more than a half hour behind (in fairness he was higher up during the race but had mechanicals). JHK won that race and is US marathon national champion. A couple weeks later JHK wins the US national XC championships. A couple weeks later, JHK finishes in twenty something place at the Monte St Anne WC race. Maybe he was having an off day, but in the past he has been at best, an occasional threat to finish at the bottom end of the top 10 at WC races. (Once again, not dissing JHK, just pointing out the level of competition that someone like Dave is in)

    I think Wiens or any of the other top mtn bikers vs LA or other elite pro tour riders would be a lot more interesting on a course like the Breck 100 than Leadville. Then technical abilities would come more into play but really, at Leadville it's close to a non issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stosh (Canada)
    Just to stir things up a bit, I read this article in Last months(?) Bicycling magazine:

    http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...9641-1,00.html

    I wonder how any of the regular pro teams would do with this event.

    This years tour was a lot of fun to watch, I look forward to any sort of feed from
    Leadville.

    Stosh

    There is a pretty good data point for this question. Back in the 80's, Jonathan Boyer was a top level pro, winning the Coors Classic, a stage of the Tour of Switzerland, and finishing 12th in the Tour de France. He rode the Race Across America in 1985 and won, but not by as much as you might expect. He thought he was going to blow away the field, but he was pushed.

    Ultra endurance racing is a totally different sport from the Tour de France.

    For MTB content, I'll add that Boyer is actually a native of Moab, and there aren't many of those.

    And yes, he went to jail for boinking an underage girl. We know that.

  48. #48
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    Lance is capable of breaking the 6 hour mark, but cmon.. so is wiens, he proved that he is capable of beating a Lance in training last time around. This time Wiens had fair warning that Lance was coming, and Lance has had A LOT more training, to get back into TDF shape.

    Pluse Lance is a expert mt biker

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    That crash effectively ended the career of Joseba Beloki, who had been on the overall TdF podium three times.

    Lance is a great bike handler, as are all pro road racers. Some are better than others, though. Look at all the 'bad luck' riders like Leipheimer and Vandevelde have had. Lance has sailed through. I was shocked to hear his broken collarbone this year was his first broken bone from cycling. That is just amazing.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshies
    I got them from the Bicycling magazine website. They have GPS data for every 2009 TdF stage. Just add up the elevation gain and you get something like 344,000ft or 105,000m. Anyways, it's a bit more than 3 Everests.

    You can find them here: http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com...?tripId=429312

    My guess is that somewhere along the line, there is a mixup between feet and metres and the total ascent was actually around 105k feet.

  51. #51
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    here's his bike...

    http://twitpic.com/cmtmn
    Last edited by vortrex; 08-03-2009 at 08:53 PM.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex
    here's his bike...

    He's riding an invisible bike? Lance never ceases to amaze.

  53. #53
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    I'll sure as hell believe he'll race that exact bike when there's snow down here He'll be rolling the Stans wheels again most likely, not those Bontrager sleds.

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex
    here's his bike...

    http://twitpic.com/cmtmn
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I'll sure as hell believe he'll race that exact bike when there's snow down here He'll be rolling the Stans wheels again most likely, not those Bontrager sleds.
    You're probably right.....those carbon Bonti XXX wheels are a real tank. No legitimate racer would ever ride those.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I'll sure as hell believe he'll race that exact bike when there's snow down here He'll be rolling the Stans wheels again most likely, not those Bontrager sleds.
    Funny because that is the exact bike he has been training on. But who really cares, Lance could ride a Next full squish and still make a ton of people look silly on it. Not to mention Walmart wouldnt know what to do with all of the business
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  56. #56
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    My bad then, didn't know they were working on carbon 29er wheels if that's the case, then I'd say he might ride them, but last year throwing on the Bontrager wheels for pics and then actually riding the Stans wheels wasn't cool IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by donkey
    You're probably right.....those carbon Bonti XXX wheels are a real tank. No legitimate racer would ever ride those.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    My bad then, didn't know they were working on carbon 29er wheels if that's the case, then I'd say he might ride them, but last year throwing on the Bontrager wheels for pics and then actually riding the Stans wheels wasn't cool IMHO.
    The carbon 29 wheels are available....but the probably wouldn't fit very well on that 26" Trek that he's riding.

    B
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey
    The carbon 29 wheels are available....but the probably wouldn't fit very well on that 26" Trek that he's riding.

    B
    He converted it sheesh.
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    It's going to be sweet seeing all these pros racing. I really want to see what Jeremiah Bishop can throw into this mix.

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    Bishop is not going, he cracked two vertebrae

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473
    Sorry, I couldn't resist the snarky reply. Someone will probably have more accurate numbers but there is about 1/4 mile of singletrack, 5 miles of double-track, 25 miles of fire road, 50 miles of graded dirt road and 20 miles of paved road. The only really technically challenging parts are the Powerline Hill and the loose and rocky double track heading up to and down from Columbine Mine. However the extreme elevation and physical exhaustion make the race a lot more difficult then the course conditions would otherwise suggest.
    Have you ridden the Leadville course? If not, ride it and then tell me it's not technical. I've raced Leadville twice and ridden the course several more times. The outbound climbs up St. Kevin's, Sugarloaf, and Columbine are plenty technical, especially the rocky and rutted steep of St. Kevins and the top 2 miles of Columbine. No, you're not hopping logs all day, but the rocks, loamy soil, ruts, and slope of the course all make it very challenging. Oh, and then there's the whole altitude thing. Leadville takes plenty of skill and even more grit to complete. I encourage you to try it if you have not already.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phknlwyr
    Have you ridden the Leadville course? If not, ride it and then tell me it's not technical. I've raced Leadville twice and ridden the course several more times. The outbound climbs up St. Kevin's, Sugarloaf, and Columbine are plenty technical, especially the rocky and rutted steep of St. Kevins and the top 2 miles of Columbine. No, you're not hopping logs all day, but the rocks, loamy soil, ruts, and slope of the course all make it very challenging. Oh, and then there's the whole altitude thing. Leadville takes plenty of skill and even more grit to complete. I encourage you to try it if you have not already.
    I think fishman gave appropriate shout outs to the powerline climb and the top of columbine...and the altitude.
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  63. #63
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    I'm sorry, the only really tough thing about Leadville is the altitude, that's it AND yes I tried my hand at it, pushed to hard over the Pline climb back, had run out of my own nutrition and tried to come up with something at the aid station b4 the climb and mixed up some yuky concuption so didn't really feed all the way up the climb, pulled out having a hard time catching my breath @ mile 87.

    Seriously, 2 weeks before I rode the Laramie Enduro and that would absolutely kill you if it was at Leadvilles altitude with the amount of tech and sweet single track. Now if Leadville was @ Laramies altitude, the winner would be done in about 5 hours I'd guess. All Leadville is, is a very hard endurance event, there's no tech, not if you've got even slight handling skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phknlwyr
    Have you ridden the Leadville course? If not, ride it and then tell me it's not technical. I've raced Leadville twice and ridden the course several more times. The outbound climbs up St. Kevin's, Sugarloaf, and Columbine are plenty technical, especially the rocky and rutted steep of St. Kevins and the top 2 miles of Columbine. No, you're not hopping logs all day, but the rocks, loamy soil, ruts, and slope of the course all make it very challenging. Oh, and then there's the whole altitude thing. Leadville takes plenty of skill and even more grit to complete. I encourage you to try it if you have not already.
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  64. #64
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    I agree with Lynx, nobody with any XC racing experience will have any trail-technicality problems at Pbville. Powerline is challenging but I had a blast on it last year (downhill!); the first couple miles of the Columbine descent are tricky mainly because the riders coming uphill use the only decent line and you have to ride downhill through all the rocks & crap.

    Look, I'm not arguing about the race being extremely challenging but it's the altitude not the trail...

    BTW, I think Lance will win handily this year; he was close last year and lets get real, Dave Weins has an outstanding record but could he get third at TdF? Go Dave! But...

    LA is sending some pretty cool photos to his twitter...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker
    LA is sending some pretty cool photos to his twitter...
    One of the more recent ones concerning his two flats on a training ride....he better hope that doesn't happen in Leadville. I'm assuming he's riding the Crows again?

  66. #66
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    Looks like a lot of his training is being done on not so XC trails though, running a full XC rig on trails more towards AM would warrent the flats one would think. Especially because his training sessions are 4-5 hours long on AM trails.

    I mean it makes sense he is basically just altitude training because he certainly does not need the endurance training, and AM would be better for him to get some MTB handling training in, even though I question the need for it.
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  67. #67
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    4 hours ago LA posted a "nice day in Leadville" tweet; three hours ago he posted a "top of Columbine" pic; I guess he didn't get any flats today...

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    I was not able to get a good look at his training bike as he blew past me going 35+ with a nod and a hello yesterday late morning when I was climbing Columbine and he was coming down...was a totally cool experience to see him. I fully expected to see him inbound while I was outbound on race day but to be training on Columbine on the same day was really cool.

    My wife had driven up about 1/2 way with a training partner and our kids and when Lance passed them he said to them, "I never thought that I would see a stroller up here on Columbine."

    It made my wife's trip to see him and hope that it made it enough to come out again next year!

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by massalsa
    I was not able to get a good look at his training bike as he blew past me going 35+ with a nod and a hello yesterday late morning when I was climbing Columbine and he was coming down...was a totally cool experience to see him. I fully expected to see him inbound while I was outbound on race day but to be training on Columbine on the same day was really cool.

    My wife had driven up about 1/2 way with a training partner and our kids and when Lance passed them he said to them, "I never thought that I would see a stroller up here on Columbine."

    It made my wife's trip to see him and hope that it made it enough to come out again next year!
    Hah. Similar experience I had in the race last year. But, without the nod.
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  70. #70
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    Wiens accepts the challenge

    http://link.brightcove.com/services/...id=32371540001

    Nice quote: "Normally we just putz around for the first 45 miles..."

  71. #71
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    No one mentioned the amount of upper body mass that LA has lost since last year, which wouldn't help one bit on a course like leadville. You can't discount an advantage like that.

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    Wiens has said he agrees sub-6 hours is possible, if the conditions and weather are optimal, like they were last year. At the moment, weather.com shows a 60% chance of rain on both Friday and Saturday next week. Hardly optimal, I'd say. Gonna make it tough.

    Plus, it's been said that to do it, it would be helpful to have the right bunch of guys working hard at the beginning and that LA may be bringing a crew with him to do just that. IMHO, it would blow the organizers' credibility to allow anyone new into the start list at this time, given that they're typically so adamant about their entry procedures. How would they explain the sudden inclusion of LA's team into the race at this point?

  73. #73
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    You're being naive two different ways.
    1. The weather in CO, particularly in the mountains, is almost impossible to predict, particularly a week out. They have a saying "if you don't like the weather in Colorado, wait five minutes!". The forecast was bad last year too and it rained a lot the few days I was there before the race, but race day was perfect for everyone who finished in under nine hours. The rest of us got wet on the way back; it's a crap shoot.

    2. LA was "last minute" addition last year and Ken was happy to accomodate; if he wants to bring a crew with him I don't think it will be problem. He's already got Max Taam...

  74. #74
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    What do people think about the team aspect? Personally, I've always felt team tactics was more a road thing, and mountain biking was more about the solo effort. To break a course record or go after a win using a 'team' seems a bit like comparing apples and oranges to older records.

  75. #75
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    I thought Leadville was an individual event, for me a team would stretch the spirt of the rules for a non team race.

    BUT:

    If Leadville is going to allow pacers for one racer, like in their 100 Mile Trail Run does everyone get to bring their own or will it be more like the lead Pace for elites in road marathons.

    Looking forward to hearing the highlights, and the results, however the team issue plays out,

    Stosh
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stosh (Canada)
    I thought Leadville was an individual event, for me a team would stretch the spirt of the rules for a non team race.

    BUT:

    If Leadville is going to allow pacers for one racer, like in their 100 Mile Trail Run does everyone get to bring their own or will it be more like the lead Pace for elites in road marathons.

    Looking forward to hearing the highlights, and the results, however the team issue plays out,

    Stosh

    Pfft.

    There is no "spirit" of the rules to be broken. There are merely rules. Having fast guys to set pace and take the wind for you is not against said rules.

    End of story.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutzy
    What do people think about the team aspect? Personally, I've always felt team tactics was more a road thing, and mountain biking was more about the solo effort. To break a course record or go after a win using a 'team' seems a bit like comparing apples and oranges to older records.
    There are no "rules" about using team tactics in MTB racing and pace lines, when the terrain allows it. Team tactics have long been a part of MTB racing (not like in road racing for sure, but still, team tactics can and do play a role). With all the pavement and easy dirt roads at Leadville it simply invites it. If you have four or five riders who are willing to work together you'd be a fool not to. LA and Weins and some others, rode together taking turns pulling for a good chunk of the first part of the race last year. Then late in the race they worked together at the end till LA blew up just before the finish. It's part of racing.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker
    You're being naive two different ways.
    1. The weather in CO, particularly in the mountains, is almost impossible to predict, particularly a week out. They have a saying "if you don't like the weather in Colorado, wait five minutes!". The forecast was bad last year too and it rained a lot the few days I was there before the race, but race day was perfect for everyone who finished in under nine hours. The rest of us got wet on the way back; it's a crap shoot.

    2. LA was "last minute" addition last year and Ken was happy to accomodate; if he wants to bring a crew with him I don't think it will be problem. He's already got Max Taam...
    Naive??? That's a funny way to put it. I suppose you could've opened w/ "Scott, you ignorant ****", so saying I'm being naive is sort of polite, I guess. For that, thanks.

    Having said that, I'm not saying it will be raining in the Leadville area next Saturday. All I said was that as of today, they're forecasting rain and if it IS raining, breaking 6 hours is gonna be tough. If it doesn't rain, then perhaps it won't be so bad.

    FWIW, I live in CO so I know first hand about the changing weather and the difficulty in predicting the weather more than a few days out. We are, however, having one of the wettest summers I can remember in a long time, and if they're still predicting rain only a few days out, I'd be inclined to believe we're all in for a crappy day.

    As for my second point, I'm quite certain that if LA asks for a favor, he'll get it. Doesn't change the validity of my view on the credibility of the promoters' stance on admissions. No naivete' there.

    As for whether they really have any chance to break 6 hours, I'm not so sure. Wiens stated they didn't really push until about mile 45, which I assume means they went about as hard as they could for the remaining 55. I imagine they can take a little time off the last half, but if they're counting on dropping all 45 minutes in the first 45 miles, they're going to have to ramp up the speed quite a bit. One thing for sure, if they do it, I'll be impressed.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter2468
    Wiens has said he agrees sub-6 hours is possible, if the conditions and weather are optimal, like they were last year. At the moment, weather.com shows a 60% chance of rain on both Friday and Saturday next week. Hardly optimal, I'd say. Gonna make it tough.

    Plus, it's been said that to do it, it would be helpful to have the right bunch of guys working hard at the beginning and that LA may be bringing a crew with him to do just that. IMHO, it would blow the organizers' credibility to allow anyone new into the start list at this time, given that they're typically so adamant about their entry procedures. How would they explain the sudden inclusion of LA's team into the race at this point?

    When you are a worldwide celebrity that brings huge crowds, huge money and huge exposure to anything that you appear in you get "Special treatment!" Does it make it right? It's not my call, but love him or hate him he brings attention to our sport! And ultimately that is a great thing!

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8rhino
    When you are a worldwide celebrity that brings huge crowds, huge money and huge exposure to anything that you appear in you get "Special treatment!" Does it make it right? It's not my call, but love him or hate him he brings attention to our sport! And ultimately that is a great thing!
    Wow, I don't think any of us thought of it that way before.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter2468
    Naive??? That's a funny way to put it. I suppose you could've opened w/ "Scott, you ignorant ****", so saying I'm being naive is sort of polite, I guess. For that, thanks.

    Having said that, I'm not saying it will be raining in the Leadville area next Saturday. All I said was that as of today, they're forecasting rain and if it IS raining, breaking 6 hours is gonna be tough. If it doesn't rain, then perhaps it won't be so bad.

    FWIW, I live in CO so I know first hand about the changing weather and the difficulty in predicting the weather more than a few days out. We are, however, having one of the wettest summers I can remember in a long time, and if they're still predicting rain only a few days out, I'd be inclined to believe we're all in for a crappy day.

    As for my second point, I'm quite certain that if LA asks for a favor, he'll get it. Doesn't change the validity of my view on the credibility of the promoters' stance on admissions. No naivete' there.

    As for whether they really have any chance to break 6 hours, I'm not so sure. Wiens stated they didn't really push until about mile 45, which I assume means they went about as hard as they could for the remaining 55. I imagine they can take a little time off the last half, but if they're counting on dropping all 45 minutes in the first 45 miles, they're going to have to ramp up the speed quite a bit. One thing for sure, if they do it, I'll be impressed.
    It depends which forecasting website you use; Wunderground only goes out to Friday, but says: "Partly sunny. A 20 percent chance of thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs 60 to 70"
    Sounds pretty good to me. I still don't think they'll make six, but WTFDIK?

    As for the admissions process, no argument from me; I "lost" to the Lance Effect this year, boohoo for me Hope to be back in 2010.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker
    It depends which forecasting website you use; Wunderground only goes out to Friday, but says: "Partly sunny. A 20 percent chance of thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs 60 to 70"
    Sounds pretty good to me. I still don't think they'll make six, but WTFDIK?

    As for the admissions process, no argument from me; I "lost" to the Lance Effect this year, boohoo for me Hope to be back in 2010.
    I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure that the "promoters discretion" doesn't effect the total amount of entries available for the lottery.

  83. #83
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    Team

    Agreed that "team" style tactics have always played a role in MTB racing. In fact it was Lance himself who helped teamate Travis Brown win the overall NORBA series one year if I recall correctly.
    I see nothing wrong with team tactics in MTB racing (on course support is a separate issue though), it would really be impossible to disallow team tactics, unless you outlawed drafting, which would be pretty ridiculous. I think organized team work in endurance MTB racing might even make the racing more interesting, especially in 100 milers and stage races.

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    No problem with team tactics here.
    Man you should see the trains at the 101. We had a good one going of about 20 or so. It eventually blew up (all RyderX's fault) but it was fast and it worked out for a lot of riders. One guy who got dropped by the group (unfortunately I was behind him and had to sprint to catch back on) remarked to me as I was going past him, "my god that was fast". I don't know if he had ever been in a pace line like that.

    Whether you are on a team or not, riders are going to work together to distance themselves from other contenders. Who cares if you are wearing the same jersey or not.

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    I have no problem with riders working together in an event but would be disapppointed in Armstrong if he used pacers to beat Wiens. Wiens didn't use them in the past and Armstrong shouldn't need them to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure that the "promoters discretion" doesn't effect the total amount of entries available for the lottery.
    In this case it's not about how many slots are available, but rather how many people were vying for the slots. I have it on relatively good authority that they received somewhere in excess of 10,000 applications for the roughly 1,000 available slots. Previous years were not nearly so high, so the Lance effect in this case made it tougher to get a slot in that your odds were reduced, not the number of slots reduced.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter2468
    LA may be bringing a crew with him...
    Not the crew from Satrielle's Pork Store???









    .
    .




    .

  88. #88
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    Weins can use the "Pacers" just as much as LA. That's when it comes down to who has the best legs at the end?

  89. #89
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    Somebody must have rattled his cage...

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    Maybe a dumb question here, but do team tactics really work on a true singletrack course? I raced the Breck 100 last year and there were alot of sections where I don't think a guy pulling for me would have made any difference at all. The Peaks Trail on loop 1 comes to mind. Most of that section is rocky/rooty singletrack. If the speeds do get high enough for someone pulling to make a difference, you'd rarely be right behind them due to the constant turning. I can see team tactics working in a race like Leadville but I'm not sure they would be as effective on a course with a high percentage of singletrack. BTW, a good friend of mine raced against Lance here in Texas, and he told me his technical ability on a mtb really shouldn't even be a discussion any longer. The course was fairly technical and after the 1st lap of a 3 lap race Lance displayed the most violent attack he'd ever seen in a mtb race. He was going 30-35mph+ on a mostly flat, ever so slight downhill portion of the course. I've raced the same course as a Cat 1 and I/we top out in the mid-high 20ish mph on that same section. When you have an engine like he does you can afford to not be the smoothest rider. I am not a Lance lover by any means, but hearing that made me realize the guy isn't even from this planet. I don't think he would have any problem chewing up a course like the Breck 100. I agree with the post above, at least he is bringing attention to our sport (and we'll get to watch LT100 live b/c of him!)
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  91. #91
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    I'm curious as to who exactly do you guys think these mystery "pacers" would be? Chris Horner? other future team Shack riders? Seems like any top pro that goes to leadville would go there to race, not to be an unneeded pacecar for Lance. Levi vs. Lance on dirt would have been a classic. I think if any 'teammates' are there, it's because he wanted to have some friends in town to hang out/race with and have some fun.

    I only see positive things from Lance racing dirt here in Colorado and I'd love to see how this all unfolds, except I'll be many miles behind, hurtin', and wondering why the helicopter is so far away.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshies
    I got them from the Bicycling magazine website. They have GPS data for every 2009 TdF stage. Just add up the elevation gain and you get something like 344,000ft or 105,000m. Anyways, it's a bit more than 3 Everests.

    You can find them here: http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com...?tripId=429312
    if it was truly 344000 ft of elevation gain, they'd average over 16,000 feet per day.

    that's like doing 3 mont ventoux's per day. and if you watch the tour and the stage profiles...you know that's not happening. in fact there's plenty of stages that are basically flat.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshies
    I got them from the Bicycling magazine website. They have GPS data for every 2009 TdF stage. Just add up the elevation gain and you get something like 344,000ft or 105,000m. Anyways, it's a bit more than 3 Everests.

    You can find them here: http://bicycling.trimbleoutdoors.com...?tripId=429312
    You should learn to be more discriminating when you read things online. For example, the site you reference has some incredibly unbelievable "data" that should make any reasonable person immediately call BS. For example, they show stage two (a relatively flat stage by TdF standards) having over 20,000' of elevation gain. Unless they took the info from a GPS strapped to someone's wrist who was doing side straddle hops the entire day, there's just no way.

  94. #94
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  95. #95
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    it is

    over...
    if LA does not mechanical everyone is going to get cooked!!!period!

    yes, he is not at altitude most of the time, but the climbs in the Giro and Le Tour are absolutely crushing!

    was over in 2000 when LA bonked, in Switzerland, and still won the GC... in that stage it was 165 miles with 3 monster climbs of over 8000ft a piece:-0

    everyone else will be racing for 2nd, and that is not a bad thing, just this guy is in a whole different league...

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    You earn non-sequitur of the day award. ....................WTF?
    "Do not touch the trim"

  97. #97
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    Dave Weins - I'm cheering for you, all the way from Lake City, CO

    Maybe we can get Lance to race the Iditasport Impossible next year?

  98. #98
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    You earn non-sequitur of the day award. ....................WTF?
    Umm, are you referring to 2ninecollussus's post or my reply wondering what that post has to do with LA going for under six hours at Leadville?

  99. #99
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter2468
    In this case it's not about how many slots are available, but rather how many people were vying for the slots. I have it on relatively good authority that they received somewhere in excess of 10,000 applications for the roughly 1,000 available slots. Previous years were not nearly so high, so the Lance effect in this case made it tougher to get a slot in that your odds were reduced, not the number of slots reduced.
    10,000? Pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical that 10,000 people applied for the Leadville 100

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    10,000? Pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical that 10,000 people applied for the Leadville 100
    Cool, you're skeptical. I'm a tad skeptical, too. I'm just telling you what a friend of mine who was talking directly to the race promoter told me he said. I don't know how many actually applied, don't care, either. Regardless, it was harder to get a slot this year than ever before and it was most likely due to a significantly increased applicant pool.

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