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  1. #1
    eri
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    How long are pedals supposed to last?

    My previous xtr 960 pedals got so loose they eventually wouldn't hold my feet. Bike shop insisted it was the cleats but no improvement when I replaced them.

    Fall of 2016 I got a brand new pair of xtr race pedals. They were nice and tight for about 3 months, then got some play. Today I fell out of one while monkeying around. They are both really loose with plenty of side to side play. It looks like the cause is 3mm wide groove worn into the aluminum face of the pedal body. Same groove on both sides of both pedals.

    I can clip into my friend's xt just fine with my 2 year old giro vr90 shoes and cleats.

    Anyone else having this problem? Pedals toast after ~2000 miles of mtb? Is it the pedals or some other cause like shoes/cleats/etc? Or is this another biking tax? My old 737 look horrible but are still working like new.

    Anyone offering a pedal resurfacing service?

    Thanks!

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-wornpedal.jpg
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  2. #2
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    I'm pretty disappointed with the longevity of the newer xtrs (no idea how the XTs fare). My issue is typically having to "tighten things up" on the spindle but the right pedal on my hardtail is prone to releasing early and I'd always figured it was my fault - I'll check to see how mine look when I get home from work.

    having said that, I'm not sure where the groove you speak of is

  3. #3
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    I have two sets of M9000s, going strong, many races, rides and miles on each. I usually expect my shimano pedals to last indefinitely and I haven't been let down by this.
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  4. #4
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    I'm pretty disappointed with the longevity of the newer xtrs (no idea how the XTs fare). My issue is typically having to "tighten things up" on the spindle but the right pedal on my hardtail is prone to releasing early and I'd always figured it was my fault - I'll check to see how mine look when I get home from work.

    having said that, I'm not sure where the groove you speak of is
    Groove is visible in the above picture as the shiny band just above the word 'tighten'. Its hard to estimate the grooves depth because its wide and smooth and curved, I think its a bit less than a mm deep.

    The bearings and everything are still perfect, like butta, just my shoes now wobble significantly from side to side. Now if I don't pedal smoothly they go click/clack on every stroke.

    I tried tightening the release tension spring but that makes no difference at all, I don't see any other adjustment.

    This is exactly what happened to my beloved 960s. Bearings are still perfect but won't hold the cleat steady.

    I'll contact shimano and see what they say.
    Last edited by eri; 09-13-2017 at 05:49 PM. Reason: remove wrong part of description
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  5. #5
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    I have a pair of Time ATAC that are probably 8 years old and another that are at least 6 years old. Neither showing any sign of giving up anytime soon.
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  6. #6
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    My current generation xtr pedals made it about 6 months on the backup bike before they got sloppy and loose. Good thing they have a warranty...issi sealed bearing pedals and xpedo sealed bearing pedals going strong for years now, no slop.

  7. #7
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    I've had poor luck with XTR longevity twice, and switched back to XT. I get a year out of them on my primary bike, but I do ride a lot.

    pinkpowa, your xpedo comment is interesting. Do they use XT cleats, or slightly different? One of my problems with contemplating any pedal changes is I've got them on 4 bikes.
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    I had XTR's that barely made it through a season but my XT's have been working really well for 5 years and over 10,000 miles. I did have a set of xpedo's for a few years but didn't use them that much because I didn't like the feel of them - they completely stopped holding my cleat recently after far-too-few miles. I replaced them with a low level set of Shimano pedals on my FS bike.

  9. #9
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    Crank Brothers pedals last about 20 minutes. ISSI last about 30. Shimano last about a decade, maybe more. Time are similar.

  10. #10
    eri
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    For you guys that saw the pedals get side-to-side loose and rattely in less than 2-3 years: what do you think was the cause?

    Did you see a worn groove in the body's machined face plate like above? Or is there some other cause?
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  11. #11
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    that groove you have shouldn't (theoretically) affect the release point if I understand the way these things work. (btw, I don't have one of those grooves. maybe a rock in your shoe tread wore that down?). Only the fore and aft pieces should be at play here (as well as the cleat). I've a few laying on my workbench that I need to give some love to.

    No real idea on the root cause of the loosening but I just pull the pedals apart, spend an hour looking for one of the really small loose bearings that I inevitably drop, regrease, retighten... and so far good to go. Pretty simple but honestly something that (IMO) we shouldn't have to do. Ever.

  12. #12
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    that groove you have shouldn't (theoretically) affect the release point if I understand the way these things work. (btw, I don't have one of those grooves. maybe a rock in your shoe tread wore that down?). Only the fore and aft pieces should be at play here (as well as the cleat). I've a few laying on my workbench that I need to give some love to.

    No real idea on the root cause of the loosening but I just pull the pedals apart, spend an hour looking for one of the really small loose bearings that I inevitably drop, regrease, retighten... and so far good to go. Pretty simple but honestly something that (IMO) we shouldn't have to do. Ever.
    Are you talking about pedal/shoe looseness, or looseness in the pedal itself (bearing, bushing)?

    If shoe/pedal, what exactly do you disassemble to get the pedal to again hold the cleat securely?

    I think it is unlikely the groove is from a rock, there's no rock there now... But seriously - the groove is the same on both sides of both pedals. Is not a one time event.

    The loosening I am having a problem with is that the shoe can rock side to side, and is also loose front to back. The looseness is entirely the cleat/pedal and shoe/pedal interface. There is no looseness in the pedal alone. Pedal feels great. The looseness is the same on both sides of both pedals.

    The other thing I notice about the pedal is that the front and rear steel clips that directly interact with the cleat feel worn smooth and their inner edge is quite sharp. Could be that this is the part that has worn out?

    Thing is, I don't ride very much at all compared to you guys. These pedals were only used for singlespeeding, they have <250 hours on them. I'd like to figure out what is going wrong so I can fix it.
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  13. #13
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    Ahhh, It sounds like we're talking about some different things. Thanks for clarifying.

    I had some issues a long while back with Crank Homies pedals and some shims I was using for a small leg length discrepancy (~1mm) but don't have that problem with Shimano (knock on wood). Sorry for the sidetrack

  14. #14
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    I have the bottom end spd pedals (540s?) on 3 bikes, all 3 sets are 10+ years old. In the last year I'm noticing the side to side play, almost like it can roll side to side if your shoe is an airplane. Have tried tightening the adjustment but it only makes the cleat harder to get in and doesn't hold the shoe any better.

    I agree, it looks like that groove on both sides is what allows it to float, and new cleats haven't made a difference. It's a great shame, I've never once had to work on the spindles, but I may replace them because I've fallen out while mid air and landed on the seat/my junk in spectacular sketchy fashion. Still think I got my money's worth though!

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  15. #15
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    XTR is more for racing and weight savings than durability IMO. As such I'll favor XT components instead. Heck even the low end models tend to be far more durable perhaps because they are built with heavier components. I have some old ass m520s that have thousands of miles and they are stills going strong though infrequently used.
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  16. #16
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    I've run Time ATAC and Crank Bros. In both cases, I've had pedals last a decade (annual bearing replacement on the Eggbeaters not withstanding). I just retired some Eggbeaters that I've been riding for probably 12 years. One of each brand succumbed to a hard rock strike. In both cases what finally did them in was wear to the top bar, which causes them to loosen up.

    These are both non-adjustable designs, FWIW, Shimano and others that use an adjustable spring are going to be different.
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  17. #17
    eri
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    I called shimano. Guy on phone said he'd never heard of this happening.

    I've called Shimano before about other warranty issues (brake pad separating from backing plate, also rotor that had a loose rivit while still new in box) and they readily acknowledged the issue.

    I don't unclip 'much' but I do know that in the past few years I've become much more aggressive in rotating my feet on the pedals while cornering, sort of like skiing. Could be my pedal wear is exacerbated by this rotation.
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  18. #18
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    The LBS I go to has seen worn contact points on pedals like this - the owner mentioned it as a consideration for why the 540's may be more durable when I was looking at replacement pedals. Mine have never done it for XT or XTR though so it's likely a more rider-specific thing. Apparently because the contact points on some pedals are steel instead of alloy, they are less susceptible to it. The contact points on my xpedo's were magnesium and were quite worn.

  19. #19
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    I've had no issue with a few pairs of xpedos or issi as long as you get the ones with 3 sealed bearings not bushings.

    XTRs aren't light at 300g+, aren't cheap at $180msrp, and aren't reliable as reported anecdotally here. I won't buy another pair.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkpowa View Post
    I've had no issue with a few pairs of xpedos or issi as long as you get the ones with 3 sealed bearings not bushings.
    I already blew out the bearings on one side of my xpedos during the Whiskey 50 race. I replaced the bearings and it's back to smooth, but they are fragile race pedals. I use them now on races where I don't anticipate a lot of rock strikes, switching out the XTRs to save over 100g.
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    Which model xpedos are 400g!?! All mine were 300g or less for the Titanium ones

  22. #22
    It's carbon dontcha know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    I called shimano. Guy on phone said he'd never heard of this happening.

    I've called Shimano before about other warranty issues (brake pad separating from backing plate, also rotor that had a loose rivit while still new in box) and they readily acknowledged the issue.

    I don't unclip 'much' but I do know that in the past few years I've become much more aggressive in rotating my feet on the pedals while cornering, sort of like skiing. Could be my pedal wear is exacerbated by this rotation.
    Possibly as I've not seen wear on any of my Shimano's like that and I've a set of 540's which are over 10 years old.

    The only issue I've ever had with Shimano was the XTR spindle snapping on the previous generation. I gave up and went back to XT's.
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  23. #23
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    I was tempted to get xt pedals, you guys are convincing me to keep my 540's!

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  24. #24
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    Love my XTR's. A couple of drops of winter chain lube on the alloy works wonders. Also stops the alloy to rubber squeaking...

  25. #25
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    I've had issues with my last two XTR's wearing out quicker than expected.

    After awhile they get sloppy in the bearings, and then they just fall off the spindle.

    XT's seem better so far, and half the price.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I have a pair of Time ATAC that are probably 8 years old and another that are at least 6 years old. Neither showing any sign of giving up anytime soon.
    Same with mine. These pedals are awesome. I just purchased a new set of "8"s to save a few grams. I hope they are as durable.

  27. #27
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    Dunno, bought an original pair of Eggbeaters and rode them (with annual rebuilds) until the EB3s came out. Have those on two bikes and Mallet Es on another. Rebuilding the first set of 3s pretty soon, but they're 4 seasons old and I never serviced them. Crank Brother's uses a bronze cleat that wears instead of the pedal. Don't know if it's cheaper in the long run, the cleats are pricy, but it works for me.
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  28. #28
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    another good experience with Time pedals. split among 3 bikes and 2 riders, all 3 sets have lasted for 15ish years and still going strong. also they are used in and get packed with sand and mud frequently and still no issues.

  29. #29
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    old. original XTR's would last forever. back in the day. not true today.

    the newer XTR's (since 2015 anyway) don't hold up

    XT's though ? now, they last as long as the old original XTR's

    so, the general school of though around my gang is:

    if you need light, XTR but plan on them giving you issues inside a year
    if you want longevity, XT, last many years
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  30. #30
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    Shimano 520's have lasted forever. YRMV.

  31. #31
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    I'm pretty sure XTR's have a 2 year warranty. If they're screwing up, have your LBS send them back..

  32. #32
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    Dunno, bought an original pair of Eggbeaters and rode them (with annual rebuilds) until the EB3s came out. Have those on two bikes and Mallet Es on another. Rebuilding the first set of 3s pretty soon, but they're 4 seasons old and I never serviced them. Crank Brother's uses a bronze cleat that wears instead of the pedal. Don't know if it's cheaper in the long run, the cleats are pricy, but it works for me.
    Yup, I replace cleats about every six months, but my EggBeater11's have been going strong since April 2013. If I have rebuilt them, it's been only once. Crank brothers have these nice plastic spacers you can install on the ends to reduce the side-to-side rocking that can develop as your shoes wear out. I don't think any other pedals even have a system like that to compensate for shoe wear. I'm surprised to see those Shimano pedals wearing out like that, you'd think the pedal would be made of a harder material than your shoes. Do you have some rocks stuck in your shoe's tread or something?

    Anyway, for long lasting, Crank Brothers are the way to go. Light too. Just don't get the cheapy bushing and stamped steel models.

    Edit: Just adding some info, about 4200 miles on the EB11's and I have about 12,000 miles on a pair of EB3's on my road bike. These newer EB's (circa about 5 years ago) with needle bearings just seem to last forever.
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  33. #33
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    I have that groove worn into my XT pedals. I pulled them off the bike because they keep binding up on the spindle. I put my 540's on and they are significantly better. I have a lot of lateral knee movement. I tried Xpedos, but they don't have as much float on the cleat and I started to have knee issues from that. Ultimately I need to fix the knee movement issue and the rest will get sorted on its own I suspect. Unfortunately, I think fixing the knee movement completely will require a revamp of my genetics.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    Yup, I replace cleats about every six months, but my EggBeater11's have been going strong since April 2013. If I have rebuilt them, it's been only once. Crank brothers have these nice plastic spacers you can install on the ends to reduce the side-to-side rocking that can develop as your shoes wear out. I don't think any other pedals even have a system like that to compensate for shoe wear. I'm surprised to see those Shimano pedals wearing out like that, you'd think the pedal would be made of a harder material than your shoes. Do you have some rocks stuck in your shoe's tread or something?

    Anyway, for long lasting, Crank Brothers are the way to go. Light too. Just don't get the cheapy bushing and stamped steel models.

    Edit: Just adding some info, about 4200 miles on the EB11's and I have about 12,000 miles on a pair of EB3's on my road bike. These newer EB's (circa about 5 years ago) with needle bearings just seem to last forever.
    I use EB2's on all my bikes, MTB and road; on sale you can pick them up for considerably less than the price of a pair of tires; I buy new ones annually for my race MTB and cycle the old pair down to my trail bike, the replacement cycle is much longer for the road bike, about every three years.

    Nobody complains about $100/pair tires being consumables so why should you expect more from a $60 pair of pedals? Keep a spare pair in your toolkit.

  35. #35
    Rod
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    I have egg beaters on 3 bikes. I haven't had great luck with them. I've had them fall apart on my road bike, break from hitting a stump, rock strikes, and breakage from usage. The problem I've noticed with egg beaters is there is a weak spot on the beater itself where the spring is connected. It's narrower in this area and it's the weakest point in the pedal. I've went through 3 sets in a winter.
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  36. #36
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    All mountain bike pedals I have used wear out like that. The bars on Times became thinner and flattened out which allowed my shoe to tip over a bit. All Shimano pedals wear out for me at the shoe pedal interface to some degree and again, become tippy. Cleats do wear out as well. If you push just a cleat into the pedal you'll see the the cleat rides on a steel plate and that wears more slowly and does stabilize the shoe a bit. Plus the shoe also wears and doesn't contact the pedal body as well as when new so the shoe becomes sloppy. This doesn't bother some folks but others may get sore knees because their feet are tipped over.

  37. #37
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    I noticed the 520's on my mtb have spindle play so I swapped them with my road bike for now. You can see how worn down the shaft housing is on my mtb pedals

    It's amazing how much different my road bike pedals feel!

    Thought of this thread when I saw it, these are probably 9 year old pedals

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by phalkon30 View Post
    I noticed the 520's on my mtb have spindle play so I swapped them with my road bike for now. You can see how worn down the shaft housing is on my mtb pedals

    It's amazing how much different my road bike pedals feel!

    Thought of this thread when I saw it, these are probably 9 year old pedals
    You know that the axles came be easily removed and that play adjusted right? You do need the plastic axle assembly removal tool though. It used to come with the pedals. Inside is a small cup and cone assembly.

  39. #39
    eri
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    I took the pedals in to a good bike shop. We carefully examined the shoe pedal interface and there is way way more play than can be accounted for by that little worn groove. It looks and feels like the front/rear steel scoops that hold the cleat are really worn, so much that they no longer contact the cleat. The edge of the scoops are worn and sharp like a knife. I think I've somehow worn away the scoops.

    The same cleats/shoes work great in different pedals. Tension makes no difference.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    I took the pedals in to a good bike shop. We carefully examined the shoe pedal interface and there is way way more play than can be accounted for by that little worn groove. It looks and feels like the front/rear steel scoops that hold the cleat are really worn, so much that they no longer contact the cleat. The edge of the scoops are worn and sharp like a knife. I think I've somehow worn away the scoops.

    The same cleats/shoes work great in different pedals. Tension makes no difference.
    I think you're wasting too much time on these pedals. They're worn out. Just buy a pair of Shimano M520 pedals. They are cheap (I paid around $25) and good.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by someoldfart View Post
    You know that the axles came be easily removed and that play adjusted right? You do need the plastic axle assembly removal tool though. It used to come with the pedals. Inside is a small cup and cone assembly.
    Yeah, I've never done it but looked it up. Tried using a pliers and just screwed up the plastic ring. Honestly I got so many years out of these I'm fine spending another $30 to replace them. My road bike set feel so much better, I should have a long time ago

  42. #42
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    Αnother vote for Μ520's. I got mine in 2008, ride 2-5 times a week, never serviced, still going strong.

  43. #43
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    I 've run the same set of 540's since 2010 and put about 2k per year on them. Not one issue. Ever.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    I took the pedals in to a good bike shop. We carefully examined the shoe pedal interface and there is way way more play than can be accounted for by that little worn groove. It looks and feels like the front/rear steel scoops that hold the cleat are really worn, so much that they no longer contact the cleat. The edge of the scoops are worn and sharp like a knife. I think I've somehow worn away the scoops.

    The same cleats/shoes work great in different pedals. Tension makes no difference.
    I didn't read all the previous posts but... a couple questions

    1) do you ride on trails with little pebbles?
    2) who mounted the cleats? Were you fitted?
    3) do you have any knee, shin or lumbar pain?

    Without seeing it first hand especially with the shoe I am going to take a random stab at this. I am assuming the "scoops" are slightly bent not worn. If they are worn that is an after effect. I am also assuming your shoes or they way your cleats are mounted are the core issue. I am assuming where you are seeing the rub on the pedal body is from your shoe not being compatible with that pedal. I would bet that if you took a little rubber off the bottom of the shoe or adjusted the cleat so it didn't have such a tight fit you wouldn't bend the scoop. I am thinking you bent the scoop right away but your shoe kept everything in check until the pedal wore away enough to allow the bent scoop to show its ugly head. I don't know if you can tap the scoop back or if the residual wear makes it a moot point At this point they may be beyond repair.

    I have broken countless egg beaters. In my mind they are good when weight is all you care about. I have been riding my XTR Shimano pedals for around 5000 strava miles a year and they are more than 2 years old.

    I also have a pair of XT pedals that I have owned since 2006. They have been retired to my CX bike. I am a bigger guy at 240-260 depending on season. I ride the Shimano pedals because they are reliable and predictable. I don't have the same confidence with Egg Beaters. That's my opinion of course.

    Shimano is unlikely the issue. People have been riding Shimano pedals for 30 years without issue. Of course there are the one offs but...

    I would bet there is something else happening.

  45. #45
    eri
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    Thank you for the considered response!

    Yes, there are pebbles. Sometimes I've had to pry them from my shoe in order to clip in. I also rode through a wet nw winter with these.
    I mounted them. I'm picky about alignment, cleat is as far back as I can get it.
    Knee/shin/lumbar pain: nope, never

    Never felt any undue difficulty when clipping in. Nothing ever felt strange but I remember it was a huge relief to have secure feet. I should also mention I'm actively rotating my feel as I descend and sometimes I twist my feet when climbing steeps.

    I mostly ride singlespeed now, lots of climbing so lots of pedal pressure (low cadence push and pull), I'm 185 but 200 with pack water, etc. A few times I've bashed the pedals on rocks. The loosening has been gradual over the past 9 months

    Could be they are bent. I have another set on order, i'll take comparative pics when they arrive.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkharris111 View Post
    I didn't read all the previous posts but... a couple questions

    1) do you ride on trails with little pebbles?
    2) who mounted the cleats? Were you fitted?
    3) do you have any knee, shin or lumbar pain?

    Without seeing it first hand especially with the shoe I am going to take a random stab at this. I am assuming the "scoops" are slightly bent not worn. If they are worn that is an after effect. I am also assuming your shoes or they way your cleats are mounted are the core issue. I am assuming where you are seeing the rub on the pedal body is from your shoe not being compatible with that pedal. I would bet that if you took a little rubber off the bottom of the shoe or adjusted the cleat so it didn't have such a tight fit you wouldn't bend the scoop. I am thinking you bent the scoop right away but your shoe kept everything in check until the pedal wore away enough to allow the bent scoop to show its ugly head. I don't know if you can tap the scoop back or if the residual wear makes it a moot point At this point they may be beyond repair.

    I have broken countless egg beaters. In my mind they are good when weight is all you care about. I have been riding my XTR Shimano pedals for around 5000 strava miles a year and they are more than 2 years old.

    I also have a pair of XT pedals that I have owned since 2006. They have been retired to my CX bike. I am a bigger guy at 240-260 depending on season. I ride the Shimano pedals because they are reliable and predictable. I don't have the same confidence with Egg Beaters. That's my opinion of course.

    Shimano is unlikely the issue. People have been riding Shimano pedals for 30 years without issue. Of course there are the one offs but...

    I would bet there is something else happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    Thank you for the considered response!

    Yes, there are pebbles. Sometimes I've had to pry them from my shoe in order to clip in. I also rode through a wet nw winter with these.
    I mounted them. I'm picky about alignment, cleat is as far back as I can get it.
    Knee/shin/lumbar pain: nope, never

    Never felt any undue difficulty when clipping in. Nothing ever felt strange but I remember it was a huge relief to have secure feet. I should also mention I'm actively rotating my feel as I descend and sometimes I twist my feet when climbing steeps.

    I mostly ride singlespeed now, lots of climbing so lots of pedal pressure (low cadence push and pull), I'm 185 but 200 with pack water, etc. A few times I've bashed the pedals on rocks. The loosening has been gradual over the past 9 months

    Could be they are bent. I have another set on order, i'll take comparative pics when they arrive.
    When you get the new ones I would pay special attention to the interface between shoe, cleat and pedal. Your sole shouldn’t have to compress to clip in. From my experience most people mount their cleats right on or maybe a touch behind the ball of their foot and in the middle of the outboard inboard adjustment. If your bike has a funky Q-factor that might not be possible. Keep in mind some shoes do flex under load and that could also be the issue.

    When I lived in the SW I used to get little shards of rock caught in my shoe which made clipping in tough. That’s why I tried the Egg Beaters. I wound up buying better shoes with more open cleats. Specialized carbon somethings. Heaven.

    End of the day I would assume there was an interface problem.

    Good luck.

  47. #47
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    New pedals arrived. Installed and plugged into them with current cleats. Pedal/cleat connection is tight and solid. The sole of the shoe does not touch the pedal.

    With shoe installed I examined the difference in the connection between cleat and pedal. The main difference is a steel nub on the inboard side of pedal that supports the cleat - on my old pedals that nub is worn away.

    Comparison pictures:

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-d7000_20171021_103228small.jpg

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-d7000_20171021_103202small.jpg

    Zoom in on the relevant wear:

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-d7000_2017_10_21-10_32_28zoom.jpg

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-d7000_2017_10_21-10_32_02_zoom.jpg

    The worn arc you see is exactly where the cleat contacts the pedal.

    For a lark I installed the new cleats on my shoes and they made absolutely no difference to shoe/pedal stability: with new cleats the old pedals are just as loose, the new ones are still solid.

    Conclusion: My pedals wore away and no longer support the cleat, gives it space to be all loose and ratty.

    Talked to shimano warranty yesterday and phone guy said the shoe WAS part of the pedal support. Now seeing what the shoe pedal connection looks like on the new pedal with new cleat the guy was just wrong. I'm going to call on Monday and give them an earful.

    I don't consider this normal wear and tear. I'm back to wondering what the heck I do wrong/different that caused these to wear so quickly. Perhaps the metal wasn't adequately hardened?
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    Do you have a pic of the bottom of the shoe?

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    Do your normal shoes wear the insides of the soles (over pronation) as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    New pedals arrived. Installed and plugged into them with current cleats. Pedal/cleat connection is tight and solid. The sole of the shoe does not touch the pedal.

    With shoe installed I examined the difference in the connection between cleat and pedal. The main difference is a steel nub on the inboard side of pedal that supports the cleat - on my old pedals that nub is worn away.

    Comparison pictures:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	d7000_20171021_103202small.jpg 
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ID:	1163471

    Zoom in on the relevant wear:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D7000_2017_10_21-10_32_28zoom.jpg 
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ID:	1163473

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The worn arc you see is exactly where the cleat contacts the pedal.

    For a lark I installed the new cleats on my shoes and they made absolutely no difference to shoe/pedal stability: with new cleats the old pedals are just as loose, the new ones are still solid.

    Conclusion: My pedals wore away and no longer support the cleat, gives it space to be all loose and ratty.

    Talked to shimano warranty yesterday and phone guy said the shoe WAS part of the pedal support. Now seeing what the shoe pedal connection looks like on the new pedal with new cleat the guy was just wrong. I'm going to call on Monday and give them an earful.

    I don't consider this normal wear and tear. I'm back to wondering what the heck I do wrong/different that caused these to wear so quickly. Perhaps the metal wasn't adequately hardened?
    No he's right. If you rely solely on the cleat for stability the pedal wears away quicker. But if the shoe sole contacts the pedal body it is all more stable. I usually replace shoes as they become loose on the pedal. Bottom line though is that shoes and pedals do wear out. Most people don't notice or care about it.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkharris111 View Post
    Do you have a pic of the bottom of the shoe?
    Here you go:

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-d7000_2017_10_22-20_05_20_small.jpg

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-d7000_2017_10_22-20_02_47_small.jpg

    The wear around the edge of the cleat is from after the pedal/cleat interface became loose. It just kept getting worser and worser and now I can pull the cleat out of the old pedal by rocking it far sideways, which is bs.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Do your normal shoes wear the insides of the soles (over pronation) as well?
    Nope. And I don't think these did either, but probably I haven't walked more than 2-3 miles in them.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Quote Originally Posted by someoldfart View Post
    No he's right. If you rely solely on the cleat for stability the pedal wears away quicker. But if the shoe sole contacts the pedal body it is all more stable. I usually replace shoes as they become loose on the pedal. Bottom line though is that shoes and pedals do wear out. Most people don't notice or care about it.
    These shoes never really contacted the pedal until the pedal had become worn. Shoe isn't part of the interface, at least for this cleat/pedal/shoe.

    This isn't cleat wear, or shoe wear, its all from that little nubbin being worn away.

    I'm fine with pedals wearing out, like bearings 'n stuff, but seems bad 'n wrong to have pedals wear out in less than a year. For perspective - I'm on the same chain I was using before I got these pedals it is still below 0.5.

    If they want to bet the farm on that little nubbin then it needs to be made of harder stuff. Either that or Giro didn't build the shoe correctly?

    These pedals lived on my singlespeed so probably 75% of my time I was standing up climbing out of the saddle, and then standing a bunch more to descend.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Interesting. I have an old pair of Shimano race shoes which are a tight fit with XTR and XT pedals. The shoe sole definitely contacts the pedal body. It is quite stable as I think it should be. In the past when I lose that tight fit and the shoe is a bit wobbly on the pedal, I replace the shoe. In my mind the shoe pedal interface should be fairly solid.

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    I will start by saying a agree with the fact these should last longer regardless. I do believe though your interface is the core issue. In other words the shoe you are running is not a good fit for the pedal. The recess in the cleat cavity and the flex of the shoe is the issue IMO. I would stop riding those shoes with those pedals. Either return those and buy some Egg Beaters or up grade your shoe to a more open cleated shoe. You will probably see pretty big benefits from a stiffer shoe as well.

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    I took a look at my shoes and cleats and the only difference I see is I am running a 98A Wellgo cleat instead of the Shimano brand. I forgot about that. I had to change them mid race a few years back. They look identical. single release and 4 degree


    https://www.amazon.com/Wellgo-WPD-98...rds=98a+cleats

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkharris111 View Post
    I will start by saying a agree with the fact these should last longer regardless. I do believe though your interface is the core issue. In other words the shoe you are running is not a good fit for the pedal. The recess in the cleat cavity and the flex of the shoe is the issue IMO. I would stop riding those shoes with those pedals. Either return those and buy some Egg Beaters or up grade your shoe to a more open cleated shoe. You will probably see pretty big benefits from a stiffer shoe as well.
    The shoe is a giro vr90, has a full Easton carbon sole. This is the stiffest (feeling) shoe I've ever had, stiffer than the previous 2 pair of sidi dominators and before that a late 90s specialized xc race shoe. Is a huge relief for the foot that the shoe no longer flexes over the pedal. I wear size 47 so am sensitive to shoe flex and these feel crazy stiff to me.

    The other thing about this shoe, it is the first in >25 years of riding where my foot is controlled and prevents my toes from slamming the front of the shoe. Earth's oceans will rise and magnetosphere will reverse before I will change shoes. I love these shoes. Probably the greatest pain reduction in my cycling.

    What do you mean by more 'open cleated'? These have very open cleat as I understand the term. Here is a photo of the shoe with new cleat and new pedal, you can see the gap between the shoe and the pedal. That shoe is solid on the pedal, no tilt at all.

    How long are pedals supposed to last?-pedalshoe1.jpg

    The other thing I noticed with the new pedals:

    - Wow it feels great to have a secure connection to the bike. Very relaxing to not have to manage a tilting footbed.
    - Is also very relaxing to be back to a very slick active shoe/pedal rotation. The easy rotation feels great to me.

    I rode yesterday a nice singlespeed ride in the woods (new wonderful beautiful Ollalie forest climb outside seattle) 90 minutes of climbing with cadence of 20-40. I noticed for quite a bit of the low cadence stuff that my feet were moving on every pedal stroke. I maintain a whole body side to side lunging motion while climbing the steep stuff and I have a quick kick flourish at the end of the stroke where my heel moves out from the bike (matches my hips which are turned away from the descending pedal.) The motion feels great to me, helps my power and relaxation but maybe all that high-force pedal motion is what is wearing the pedal away?

    So you still really think the problem is the shoe?

    I'm thinking now the wear is simply the result of a heavier guy doing lots of low cadence/high force riding with frequent rotation? Another reason I doubt the problem is the shoe is that its sole is soft vibram rubber, if it was part of side to side support it would squish and allow motion. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced this is problem with the design of this pedal, too much depends on the wear resistance of a tiny piece of steel.

    I'm going to ping shimano again once I get a copy of my purchase receipt, see if there's another pedal that is better suited to my situation (mostly I think this pedal needs a bigger steel contact point for the cleat.) The other option might be to get replacement pieces for the pedals (the metal plate that includes the worn nubbin is bolted to the pedal.)
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Holy betty big ring!! 20-40 Cadence?? Are you sure? If I dip down to 60 I feel like I am bogging down. 20 seems like you would fall over. LOL. How did you adjust the tension? If you stay with that pedal I probably would have them pretty tight.

    I also wear a 47 so I feel your pain regarding shoe flex. By open cleats I am referring to the rubber on the sole of the shoe. My favorite shoe of all time is a SBI Carbon comp circa 2005. I still wear them on my wet and CX rides. The sole is more football cleat than typical cycling shoe. This allows for rocks and shards of anything to fall out before really digging into the pedal or getting in the way of clipping in.

    From everything you are saying I thing it may just be a bad pedal for you. Your mashing and waddling style may put a bunch of extra force on the pedal and having a lightweight (softer) pedal probably isn't a good fit. For them to drop weight typically the remove what they can and use a less dense material. I am a big rider @ 250 currently but I am more of a finesse rider than masher. Typically I am averaging in the 90s for cadence and rarely drop below 75 however I gave up the SS years ago.

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    Also after looking at the pic you could move the cleat more to the outside of the shoe so you improve your Q-factor. If your heel hits due to float you could rotate the heel of the cleat inwards assuming they are single release. Don't go to far though as you could cause knee pain. I trip to a professional fitter may be worth every penny. Write down all your concerns and issues you want to address before you go and send to them so nothing is forgotten and they have time to prep.

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    All my shoes (Diadora, S-Works, Shimano), the rubber touches the pedal body (XTR race) both sides and helps provide a platform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    All my shoes (Diadora, S-Works, Shimano), the rubber touches the pedal body (XTR race) both sides and helps provide a platform.
    I agree with that. What I am referring to is allowing enough room between knobs to allow smaller rocks etc. to not stick in the shoe. Much like a wider knob tire.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkharris111 View Post
    Holy betty big ring!! 20-40 Cadence?? Are you sure? If I dip down to 60 I feel like I am bogging down. 20 seems like you would fall over. LOL. How did you adjust the tension? If you stay with that pedal I probably would have them pretty tight.

    I also wear a 47 so I feel your pain regarding shoe flex. By open cleats I am referring to the rubber on the sole of the shoe. My favorite shoe of all time is a SBI Carbon comp circa 2005. I still wear them on my wet and CX rides. The sole is more football cleat than typical cycling shoe. This allows for rocks and shards of anything to fall out before really digging into the pedal or getting in the way of clipping in.

    From everything you are saying I thing it may just be a bad pedal for you. Your mashing and waddling style may put a bunch of extra force on the pedal and having a lightweight (softer) pedal probably isn't a good fit. For them to drop weight typically the remove what they can and use a less dense material. I am a big rider @ 250 currently but I am more of a finesse rider than masher. Typically I am averaging in the 90s for cadence and rarely drop below 75 however I gave up the SS years ago.

    Also after looking at the pic you could move the cleat more to the outside of the shoe so you improve your Q-factor. If your heel hits due to float you could rotate the heel of the cleat inwards assuming they are single release. Don't go to far though as you could cause knee pain. I trip to a professional fitter may be worth every penny. Write down all your concerns and issues you want to address before you go and send to them so nothing is forgotten and they have time to prep.
    I appreciate your responses.

    The hill has some pretty desperate short steep bits where I sprint hard to maintain 40, but then there's sloggy bits where my pace slows down.

    Because you asked I went and did the math (circumference), my average is usually closer to 50 for the most sustained climb, maybe a little lower because the climbs include some short (swoopy) downhills. I'm guilty of exaggeration but I definitely dip into track stand territory in places and start making grunty noises.

    I'm averaging 1.9k feet per hour but climb averages less than 400 feet per mile. My limit with my gearing is anything sustained at more than ~500 feet per mile, right about there I walk because I'm old and lazy and insufficient eye of the tiger.

    As you know with SS you get lots of low cadence work, but then you also get lots of high cadence too when not climbing steeps so then I'm spun out at 90. I think the low cadence work has really helped my health: I used to have knee and back pain and its all gone now - I think all the standing has built up my glutes and core. I don't feel like I need any sort of bike or pedal fit, I'm ecstatic about my current bike fit and have no health or body wear complaints though I wouldn't say not to a leg massage.

    Back to pedals... yeah. I'll see what shimano says. My multi-decade old 737 are still tight, my thrift store 525 on my trainer are tight after 5+ years. It is just these pedals this year that done wore out so quickly. I kinda think it is a bad design, a few more grams of steel extended further to the inside of the pedal and these would last much longer.

    Thanks much for input people.
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    30 rpm is normal if you're on a single speed.
    I smear chain oil on the "platform" bits of the pedals. Stops them squeaking with the rubber on metal contact.

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