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  1. #1
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    Hammer VS. Infinit Nutrition

    Has anyone tried both and come to a determination of which is better??

    I tried the Hammer perpetuem for a 24 hour solo mtb race last year and I did like it a lot...no gastric issues and it kept me going........BUT juggling the proper dose of perpetuem, gels, and electrolyte tabs was a pain in the ass. On top of that, the perpetuem was nasty tasting when it wasn't ice cold.

    I REALLY like the concept behind Infinit Nutrition....one drink mix that has it all. However, I drank some promotional infinit free stuff (maybe too much?) at the 24 hours of Moab that I rode in a team....I ended up with the classic mid race gas issue. Granted the drink was free and wasn't "customized" for me...maybe that's what caused it?

    I hope to only hear from people who have tried both and decided one is better than the other. I've read plenty of old posts from people who've ONLY tried hammer or ONLY infinit....they were helpful, but just didn't quite answer my question.

    I'd appreciate any input from anyone who may be, or have been in my shoes?
    I've not been killed, only wounded...I'll just lie here a while and bleed, then rise again to fight another day.

  2. #2
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    Well I've tried neither, but think I can offer helpful advice anyway: the only way you will know what works for you is by trying them. Another person's experience may be totally different than yours, so anecdotal tales from others are probably not worth much.

  3. #3
    This place needs an enema
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    I checked both websites and could find zero evidence of anything resembling food, anywhere. Nothin' even looked edible.

    I recommend eating real food.



    Takes some practice to find out what to eat, when, and how much, but it is infinitely more satisfying and successful than consuming whatever it is that H and I are selling.

    Just one guy's opinion...

    MC

  4. #4
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    I do eat real food during the races...but I do like the convenience of the liquid fuel for when I'm riding....so I'm just trying to get opinions about the two product lines.
    I've not been killed, only wounded...I'll just lie here a while and bleed, then rise again to fight another day.

  5. #5
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    I have used both for various length events (primarily the bike portions of long-course triathlons) and now have a strong preference for Infinit.

    I found Hammer's HEED excellent for short time use (under 2 hours), but found that for anything longer than 2 hours the sweetness was too much and I found it very hard to keep taking it in.

    I found Hammer's Perpeteum okay for the first very cold bottle, but after that I could not keep taking it in as the taste required more focus to take than I had. I did not even want to smell it, let alone drink it.

    I think Hammer gels are fine, but I prefer Roctane and Accelerade chocolate.

    For the past few years, I have been using my own mix of Infinit (approx 300 cals/serving) and really think it is excellent. I generally concentrate (up to 3 servings/water bottle - but really prefer 2 servings/water bottle) so I have dialed down the flavor and will take some water with the concentrated mix. It has served me well in many races.

  6. #6
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    I used to use hammer and had some stomach issues. I've been with INFINIT for a few months now and have to say this stuff is amazing. The fact that you can change the calories, carbs, protien, sodium etc to what works for your body not just a generic scopp where you have to guess. Plus the taste of a lot of the drinks are to strong after a long time so the only way to deal with it is to weaken the mix. With INFINIT you can adjust that also.

    Today was a 5 hour ride and all I used was a mix I have designed for 24 hour events, Had zero hunger, no energy loss etc with a total of 5 bottles used.

    Not proping this stuff up because of sponsorship, just because it works amazing

  7. #7
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    I have also tried both and come to prefer Infinit. I tried to for years to use Sustained Energy because I knew so many people who swore by it. But ultimately I had to conclude that it neither worked with my stomach nor fueled me very well (probably one a result of the other). I was wary of Infinit because I figured it was going to be very much the same. However, I found that being able to customize a mix for me allowed me to consume what my body could tolerate and not consume what it couldn't. (Sounds simple but it's true). I'm hooked.

    For the record, I also eat plenty of other stuff during long races but it is handy to have a drink to suck down when you're stomach is turning down whole food.

  8. #8
    Just Wanna Ride!
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    Last edited by NCtrailX; 04-12-2009 at 07:27 PM.

  9. #9
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    For those that have tried the custom Infinit products did you get it right on your first order and if so how? I guess I figure that the first time getting to go completely custom one wouldn't really know exactly what they could tolerate or would want unless you had already found a product that worked. Or did you "copy", from a nutrition standpoint, an existing product you had used with moderate success and made small tweaks to flavor or something? If that is the case where is the advantage?

    Has anyone used the Get Started interview with them to great success?

  10. #10
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    I used Infinit's 5+ hour endurance formula as a base and tweaked it. I need a lot more electrolytes than Cytomax and HEED (which makes me wanna puke) for example so I bumped them up to 550g. When you do that the osmality will go up so you have to lower the flavor slider. It all makes sense when you do it on the site. I prefer it over Perpetuum b/c I need the electrolytes and I hate keeping up with pills, gels, solid food and drink and oh yeah, racing my bike.
    Last edited by Asbury; 05-11-2009 at 08:09 AM.
    DO RIGHT AND FEAR NO MAN

  11. #11
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    I'd rather drink Monkey urine than HEED.



    .
    .




    .

  12. #12
    You down with entropy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by js2501
    For those that have tried the custom Infinit products did you get it right on your first order and if so how? I guess I figure that the first time getting to go completely custom one wouldn't really know exactly what they could tolerate or would want unless you had already found a product that worked. Or did you "copy", from a nutrition standpoint, an existing product you had used with moderate success and made small tweaks to flavor or something? If that is the case where is the advantage?

    Has anyone used the Get Started interview with them to great success?

    I created 2 formulas, one with and one without protein. I used a combination of the get started interview + looking at the Etough formulas/other endurance bike formulas + some other tweaking for me.

    So far I am liking what I have, I have been almost 100% liquid on my long endurance rides. the formula with protein has even been good to my while pushing pretty hard (in the past I had some stomach issues with other products). I may further tweak when I re-order but mostly just fine tuning. Right now I can say that I will dial down the flavor a bit on my fruit punch version. Other than that I hope to be testing them out in a race situation this weekend (it was supposed to be last weekend but the race got postponed).

    I did feel that it was a bit of a blind leap creating and ordering my own formula but it has worked out great so far

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSW42
    I'd rather drink Monkey urine than HEED.
    .
    That's funny.

    no it's not beer but I think HEED tastes great compared to other carb/electrolyte drinks. Just not the melon flavor.

    perpetuem has worked for me on 12 and 24hr races. Along with gel, boiled potatoes, and PB-banana sandwiches. I have yet to try infinit.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by esilvassy
    I used a combination of the get started interview + looking at the Etough formulas/other endurance bike formulas + some other tweaking for me.

    Where'd you find the Etough formulas?
    I've not been killed, only wounded...I'll just lie here a while and bleed, then rise again to fight another day.

  15. #15
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    you can find the Eatough formula in the usa site. Look under signature series. if you use discount code MATTMTB it will get you 10 percent off your order

    Here is the link to Chris's premixes. I use a slightly modified version of the 24 hour mix and have ahd awesome results with it.

    http://www.infinitnutrition.us/produ...?idCategory=39

  16. #16
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    No experience with Infinit, but Hammer's Perpetuem works really for me.

    One change I've made for a 33 ounce bottle is that I now use 2 scoops of Perpetuem with 1 or 1.5 scoops of Heed. It really improved the taste for me. A lot crisper and less chalky. A big improvement, especially late in a 100 mile race, when nothing you grab is cold anymore.

    I tried the same thing with powdered Gatorade, and it worked well, too, but with a stronger flavor than the Heed.

    I like real food more than almost anybody I know, but in races, no thanks. Other than a brownie or two, I do races with Perpetuem/Heed and shots, and I prefer to mix and match the shots for variety.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  17. #17
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    the first and only time I did a 24 hour solo I took a break for some real food around 4:30 in the afternoon.....had a brautwurst, potatoe salad, and some baked beans. Three hours later I was finally able to get back on my bike. WHAT was I thinking? haha! It sure tasted good!
    I've not been killed, only wounded...I'll just lie here a while and bleed, then rise again to fight another day.

  18. #18
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    Hey all. I am not going to get into the who's better conversation but I will point of the differenced between the products. They are very different from an ingredient POV.

    Hammer is a 100% maltodextrine product. They do not believe in using simple sugars because they believe it causes an insulyn spike and a resulting "crash".
    They are isotonic, meaning that they should not cause many stomach issues.
    They use Soy as a protein source because certain aminos in whey (L-Gleut) produce ammonia which is a bad thing for athletes.
    To use their system you need to take their drinks, gels and supplement with e-caps.

    INFINIT uses a mix of 3 different carbs maltodextrine, glucose and sucrose. Reseach shows that multiple carbs increases caloric absorbtion rates by 25-30%.
    Infinit has an osmolality calculator on the website in order to ensure that your mix is isotonic also, again it should not cause any stomach issues.
    Infinit uses whey because it is more stable in the heat and does not get skunky or sour like soy.
    Infinit allows you to custom make you own "brew" and match calories to body size, electrolyte to sweat rates, add protein or caffiene and also to adjust flavor to make it taste how you want.
    There is no need to supplement with gels, salt pills and in most cases food for racing.

    That is as unbiassed side by side evaluation as I can give you.

  19. #19
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    As someone who has used both Hammer and Infinit products I feel like tossing an opnion into the hat in hopes that it may help you.

    When I started getting into the enduro scene and getting serious about nutrition everyone seemed to think that Hammer was the cat’s meow. So like many others I jumped on board and after a lot of research ordered few tubs of many different powders. I don’t know how much money I spent racing with Hammer products for a year but it seems like most of my money went towards entry fees and Hammer products. I won’t say that Hammer products are bad but I will honestly say that they are touchy and when used properly will work as stated and used within guidelines. What really sucked was bringing along several big tubs (because it was cheaper to buy large amounts) of Heed, Perpetum, Sustained Energy and Recoverite to the races and trying to remember the ratio of what to mix with what to get the desired effect at 3am during a 24 hour race was a bit of a pain. I did have stomach problems when mixing Hammer stuff with certain other products. I also learned the hard way that pre-mixing a bottle of sustained/heed the night before a 100 miler then letting it sit in the heat for 6 hours is a no no!

    At the 24 Hours of Big Bear last year I nabbed a few sample packets of the Infinit Nutrition pre mix long distance formula. After a quick taste test at the Infinit booth I decided to take a chance and run the sample packets as my main drink mix during the race. The pre mix plan sounded like a solid idea and I figured at the worst I could switch back to my Hammer mix. Although the initial taste of the pre mix Infinit stuff was a bit strong for me (I like a very light slightly flavored water taste) I was able to easily drink my bottles throughout each lap and never had any stomach issues. In fact I liked it so much I went back to the booth mid race and begged a few more sample packets to finish out the race. That was the start of it all and ever since then I have used nothing but Infinit Nutrition for my long distance ride all day fuel.

    I will admit that when first ordering your custom blend Infinit Nutrition formula it almost feels like a bit of a leap of faith and most people I talk to say they second guessed themselves a few times but were ultimately happy with the end result. If in doubt you can always do the phone consultation to make sure that you are getting what you need. So what do I like most about Infinit and what keeps my business pointed in their direction. Simple, the product works and works reliably. I always get the same great results from my blends. And I only have to take 2 environmentally friendly bags with me to races. Being a self supported endurance racer I need things to be fast and idiot proof. When I roll into my pit at 5am I pull out one bag and dump 2 scoops of the “Metro goes long” formula into each bottle, give it a few shakes and head back out for another lap.

    Different strokes for different folks for sure but Infinit works for me and that’s all I really need.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by metro
    As someone who has used both Hammer and Infinit products I feel like tossing an opnion into the hat in hopes that it may help you....................When I roll into my pit at 5am I pull out one bag and dump 2 scoops of the “Metro goes long” formula into each bottle, give it a few shakes and head back out for another lap.

    Different strokes for different folks for sure but Infinit works for me and that’s all I really need.

    This seems to be my story word for word...except it sounds like you ride more races than I do! You make a great argument for infinit and covered all the points that I was wondering about...I'm sold, I'll be trying infinit during my next 24 hour race this coming June.

    I am curious though...do you do supplement with any real food? If so, what's working for you???

    Thanks!
    I've not been killed, only wounded...I'll just lie here a while and bleed, then rise again to fight another day.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by metro
    As someone who has used both Hammer and Infinit products I feel like tossing an opnion into the hat in hopes that it may help you.

    When I started getting into the enduro scene and getting serious about nutrition everyone seemed to think that Hammer was the cat’s meow. So like many others I jumped on board and after a lot of research ordered few tubs of many different powders. I don’t know how much money I spent racing with Hammer products for a year but it seems like most of my money went towards entry fees and Hammer products. I won’t say that Hammer products are bad but I will honestly say that they are touchy and when used properly will work as stated and used within guidelines. What really sucked was bringing along several big tubs (because it was cheaper to buy large amounts) of Heed, Perpetum, Sustained Energy and Recoverite to the races and trying to remember the ratio of what to mix with what to get the desired effect at 3am during a 24 hour race was a bit of a pain. I did have stomach problems when mixing Hammer stuff with certain other products. I also learned the hard way that pre-mixing a bottle of sustained/heed the night before a 100 miler then letting it sit in the heat for 6 hours is a no no!

    At the 24 Hours of Big Bear last year I nabbed a few sample packets of the Infinit Nutrition pre mix long distance formula. After a quick taste test at the Infinit booth I decided to take a chance and run the sample packets as my main drink mix during the race. The pre mix plan sounded like a solid idea and I figured at the worst I could switch back to my Hammer mix. Although the initial taste of the pre mix Infinit stuff was a bit strong for me (I like a very light slightly flavored water taste) I was able to easily drink my bottles throughout each lap and never had any stomach issues. In fact I liked it so much I went back to the booth mid race and begged a few more sample packets to finish out the race. That was the start of it all and ever since then I have used nothing but Infinit Nutrition for my long distance ride all day fuel.

    I will admit that when first ordering your custom blend Infinit Nutrition formula it almost feels like a bit of a leap of faith and most people I talk to say they second guessed themselves a few times but were ultimately happy with the end result. If in doubt you can always do the phone consultation to make sure that you are getting what you need. So what do I like most about Infinit and what keeps my business pointed in their direction. Simple, the product works and works reliably. I always get the same great results from my blends. And I only have to take 2 environmentally friendly bags with me to races. Being a self supported endurance racer I need things to be fast and idiot proof. When I roll into my pit at 5am I pull out one bag and dump 2 scoops of the “Metro goes long” formula into each bottle, give it a few shakes and head back out for another lap.

    Different strokes for different folks for sure but Infinit works for me and that’s all I really need.
    Might be too late to be of any use, but did you consider pre-measuring the various Hammer products you needed, putting them into ziploc bags? Roll in, take your bottle, pour in a little water and the contents of one pre-mixed baggie, shake a little, fill with water the rest of the way, shake some more, and away you go.

    Just 'cause one product comes in single serving packets doesn't mean you can't create your own single serving sized packets of other products. For as long as I can recall I've carried refills of powdered mix of whatever liquid nutrition I was using on my longer rides in ziploc bags, refilling water bottles when necessary. A sandwich-sized bag will carry up to a 4hr bottle's worth of SE or Perpetuem, no problem.

    Another pre-race tip: put multiple gel packs in one flask, diluted a little with water so they go down easier. If you can reach for a gel pack in your pocket, you can reach for a flask. No messing around with opening the packs while on the bike and no littering (accidental or otherwise).

  22. #22
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    For you infinit users, I have another question for ya...

    I received an e-mail from some dude at infinit answering a couple questions that I threw at them. He kept talking about keeping things at level 4or5, 1or2...etc. When I look at the sliders, are the tall lines the levels, and the short lines 1/2 a level, or is every line a level? Kinda seems like a dumb question, but I have a hunch that it could make a big difference.

    If anyone has an answer, let me know!
    I've not been killed, only wounded...I'll just lie here a while and bleed, then rise again to fight another day.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steady Grind
    Has anyone tried both and come to a determination of which is better??

    I tried the Hammer perpetuem for a 24 hour solo mtb race last year and I did like it a lot...no gastric issues and it kept me going........BUT juggling the proper dose of perpetuem, gels, and electrolyte tabs was a pain in the ass. On top of that, the perpetuem was nasty tasting when it wasn't ice cold.

    I REALLY like the concept behind Infinit Nutrition....one drink mix that has it all. However, I drank some promotional infinit free stuff (maybe too much?) at the 24 hours of Moab that I rode in a team....I ended up with the classic mid race gas issue. Granted the drink was free and wasn't "customized" for me...maybe that's what caused it?

    I hope to only hear from people who have tried both and decided one is better than the other. I've read plenty of old posts from people who've ONLY tried hammer or ONLY infinit....they were helpful, but just didn't quite answer my question.

    I'd appreciate any input from anyone who may be, or have been in my shoes?

    You can flavor any "Unflavored" Hammer prodcut with any of their gels....my personal favorite is Espresso and freeze the bottle over night, just take it out in time so it's drinkable before you need it. I have never had a problem with mixing the amount, I just followed the directions on the tub, personally, that works for me. If Perpetum doesn't seem to fit the bill, try Sustained Energy...that's what happened to me, I found out that Sustained worked better for me. Or it could be the other way around.

    For those who use Heed for more than 2 hours should try to use the S.E. or Perpetum after 2 hours. Heed can be a little sweet, but it is designed to work for rides/races under two hours.

    I use Endurolytes at the beginning of the race (if it's hot out), as preventive medicine and use them continually (2-4 per hour) depending how I need them. It's not rocket science doing this and it's just creating some good habits. The little coin purses filled with about 10 little white magical pills tucked under the seam of your bike shorts are easy to get to and you only need one hand to do the whole operation.

    As for the empty tubs....recycle please.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    I checked both websites and could find zero evidence of anything resembling food, anywhere. Nothin' even looked edible.

    I recommend eating real food.



    MC
    Yumm, bacon. That is what I would eat.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt 24 solo
    Today was a 5 hour ride and all I used was a mix I have designed for 24 hour events, Had zero hunger, no energy loss etc with a total of 5 bottles used.
    Are you using a camelback? Or riding laps? That seems like a lot of fluid and bottles to juggle for five hours.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steady Grind
    I am curious though...do you do supplement with any real food? If so, what's working for you???

    Thanks!
    Probably not Bratwurst... Oh god that was funny!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steady Grind
    This seems to be my story word for word...except it sounds like you ride more races than I do! You make a great argument for infinit and covered all the points that I was wondering about...I'm sold, I'll be trying infinit during my next 24 hour race this coming June.

    I am curious though...do you do supplement with any real food? If so, what's working for you???

    Thanks!
    I work with both Eatough and Pua. I will let you know that they are mainly liquid. Chris does eat a little solid food mainly in a bar form, but since he has developed his own custom formula think he has cut the ammount of food down dramaticly. If you did want to check out Eatoughs formulas
    go here

    Pua s 95% liquids. She like a 1/4 blcks of PB and honey with the occational bananna.

    I will see Chris Friday and will try and get a little more info for you.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSW42
    I'd rather drink Monkey urine than HEED.



    .
    Actually....I want to see this happen.

  29. #29
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    I've raced enough endurance races on Infinit that I know it works very well for me. On anything 24hrs or shorter I stick to 100% liquid nutrition via Infinit (using three custom blends I created for myself).

    last November I raced just over 30hrs on 100% Infinit liquid nutrition with the goal being to race the entire 48hr solo on 100% liquid, but my 4yr and 5yr old sons insisted I eat some of their peanuts, pretzels, raisins, and M&M's, otherwise I think I would have been able to do the entire event on 100% liquid.

    I started off with Hammer a few years ago but after a while the taste started to become unbearable, especially in heat. After some stomach issues racing on Hammer I looked for an alternative and started reading favorable reports about Infinit which was a relatively new product in so much that it hadn't really gained mainstream acceptance/visibility. I gave it a try and had excellent results. It's all I use now.

  30. #30
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    I've raced enough endurance races on Infinit that I know it works very well for me. On anything 24hrs or shorter I stick to 100% liquid nutrition via Infinit (using three custom blends I created for myself).
    How much protein are you running in your mix? I have just got my first mix to try for 6/12/24hr races. I have gone for 270cal, 4g protein, 63g carb
    cheers
    Pagey

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    Quote Originally Posted by pagey
    How much protein are you running in your mix? I have just got my first mix to try for 6/12/24hr races. I have gone for 270cal, 4g protein, 63g carb
    I have approx 3.6gms of protein and approx 290-300cals per hr. It works for me.

    Don't be afraid to experiment with the amount of cals per hour, try less and try more, just be sure to listen to your stomach and do the testing at race pace. You'll figure out all the nuances eventually.

    Good luck.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pagey
    How much protein are you running in your mix? I have just got my first mix to try for 6/12/24hr races. I have gone for 270cal, 4g protein, 63g carb
    Normally our clients have two different formulas. This system will take care of 99% of your racing and training.

    1) An endurance mix that is higher calorie with a little protein in it. Use this formula for long training and races > than 3-4 hours. The protein will keep you from getting hungry and allow you to avoid food, salt pills, and gels. This formula is your "go to" mix that you will use for most of your long training and racing. It should be the only thing you need for the long stuff. The goal is to match calories to body size, electrolyte to sweat rate and make it taste how you want. You don't need any pills, bars or food. Just drink and peddle.

    2) The second, is a no protein formula. Protein is great, but it seems like your body starts to not like it after a long time of drinking it. Having a lighter formula that will process super easy is the way to fix yourself on the fly.
    Just reduce calories by 10-15% from your endurance blend, change the carbohydrate blend down to the short distance side to increase the glucose, keep electrolyte the same and REMOVE the protein. The effort here is to have a formula for high stress high heart rate conditions with NO GUT ISSUES. You can also use this for any sprint/XC type racing, running races. This is the formula that you can add caffeine to if you wish.

    Those 2 formulas will cover anything from a sprint up to a 24+ hour race.

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    I should have been more thorough in my response. I use three blends, two of them are my endurance mix and are identical except one has caffeine in it and one doesn't. Both endurance mixes are higher cals, have protein and BCAA's and the slider is focused on slower burning carbs.

    The third blend is my 'Jet Fuel' blend which is a no protein formula, has less calories and is a more sprint oriented (higher intensity fast burning carbs) blend.

    I use the Jet Fuel to clear my gut after quite a few hours of racing on the endurance mix, I only need to use one bottle of Jet Fuel and then I go straight back to my endurance mix; when you need to clear your gut, the Jet Fuel works really well. The Jet Fuel also works well in the last hour or two of a long race.

    Since I mainly race and train on the endurance mix I like to have the caffeine option in it rather than in the Jet Fuel. A common scenario for a morning trg ride might be three bottles of endurance mix, one of those bottles will be caffeinated... or I will equally blend the two endurance mixes into each bottle so all three bottles have a slow and steady feed of caffeine... or...

    I have used a lot of Infinit under a lot of race conditions ranging from multi-hour super hot temps (100+ degrees F) to multi-hour freezing temps (20 degrees F) and it hasn't let me down. Last time I did the math I had over 300hrs of racing (and who knows how many trg hrs) on Infinit and I've come to completely trust it.

    I've tried a lot of stuff out there and this is the best stuff I can find. I like it and it works very well. I buy my own Infinit and I don't get paid to say any of this. Uhmmm, did I leave anything else out? ;-)

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by INFINIT1
    Normally our clients have two different formulas. This system will take care of 99% of your racing and training.

    1) An endurance mix that is higher calorie with a little protein in it. Use this formula for long training and races > than 3-4 hours. The protein will keep you from getting hungry and allow you to avoid food, salt pills, and gels. This formula is your "go to" mix that you will use for most of your long training and racing. It should be the only thing you need for the long stuff. The goal is to match calories to body size, electrolyte to sweat rate and make it taste how you want. You don't need any pills, bars or food. Just drink and peddle.

    2) The second, is a no protein formula. Protein is great, but it seems like your body starts to not like it after a long time of drinking it. Having a lighter formula that will process super easy is the way to fix yourself on the fly.
    Just reduce calories by 10-15% from your endurance blend, change the carbohydrate blend down to the short distance side to increase the glucose, keep electrolyte the same and REMOVE the protein. The effort here is to have a formula for high stress high heart rate conditions with NO GUT ISSUES. You can also use this for any sprint/XC type racing, running races. This is the formula that you can add caffeine to if you wish.

    Those 2 formulas will cover anything from a sprint up to a 24+ hour race.
    How do your product hold up in a Camelbak? The bike I train on is a heavy duty bike w/o bottle cages.

  35. #35
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    I have been mixing my solutions for years and just recently, lets say last week that somebody has improved the combination of carbs protein, caffeine ect, wow. This is the quality thread that is tops on my list. My mix involves either Cyto-max or Heed as my carbs and Soy protein for all rides longer than two hours that was based on Hammer’s advice, and maybe add some L-Glutamine. My training rides are always 4 hours or so and high out-put, my quest is 24 hour events. Don’t we all start off this way…mixing the magic bottles thinking you are doing it right??? Infinity may be what’s right, there just seems to be lots of options…

  36. #36
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    Well I rode my first race on my Infinit mix today. 5 hour race 5 bottles.

    I certainly did not run out of energy for the period. I think I will lower the flavour on my next batch though as it was a bit sweet. I'm not sure if that is a flavour issue your just standard mix issue.

    It is the first race I have done in the last 5 years where I did not need gels or real food, so I guess from an energy point it worrks for me.

    A question for Infinit1

    What is the carb mix - 2:1 Maltodextrin to Fructose??
    cheers
    Pagey

  37. #37
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    I have tried Accelerade and both endurance formula's from Hammer and had gut issues with all 3. I went to just a carbohydrate drink and solid food and that gave me gut issues as well. I ended up talking with the owener of Infinit for quite a while one afternoon while the guy was driving to Chicago and told him all the issues I had been having.

    Long story short, I went through the process of creating my own formula for endurance and am almost through the first bag as I prepare for the Lumberjack 100. I haven't had any stomach problems on long rides and the Infinit actually tastes good. I think I may have finally found something that works for me.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pagey
    Well I rode my first race on my Infinit mix today. 5 hour race 5 bottles.

    I
    5 bottles? That seems like a lot of refilling to me. Can you thicken it up for longer rides? With the Hammer stuff I make a real thick 7 hour bottle and wash it down with water or Heed in my Camelbak.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    5 bottles? That seems like a lot of refilling to me. Can you thicken it up for longer rides? With the Hammer stuff I make a real thick 7 hour bottle and wash it down with water or Heed in my Camelbak.
    Sure you can make a thick bottle, but what's the advantage? There's certainly a downside to a thick bottle - maybe not trickling the fuel calories precisely as the hours go by. Refilling doesn't need to be an issue if you are doing laps (and don't have pit support) just get a cheap cooler and put your bottles in it. For the first 24hrs of a 48hr solo I didn't have any support and this is what my bottles looked like before they went into a cooler next to the transition tent.





    If you want 7hrs of fuel and your Camelback carries 75ozs, that's approx 3hrs of liquid fuel if you put the Infinit in the Camelback. For the remaining 4hrs of trg or racing just put the Infinit in baggies and whenever you get near water do a refill and powder fill. Or if you are racing/trg and have a lap-based scenario with a pit area just leave the Infinit in the pit and refill on an as need basis.

    For lap based racing it's pretty rare to have a lap that's longer than 3hrs and carrying 3 bottles on the bike/in jersey is pretty easy, bottles are perfect for understanding visually if you are taking in enough cals.

  40. #40
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    To answer the question about the carb mix, ours is a combination of maltodextine, glucose and sucrose. We stay away from fructose because on the ultra stuff, fructose can irritate your stomach lining. It is the harshest of all the carbs.

    The science of carbohydrate absorbtion is quite clear, the more types of carbs that you get in your nutrition, the more calories that your body absorbs. If you are using a singular carb source product like hammer or gatorade, you are only absorbing 70% of what you could. There are numerous studies that confirm this. If you want a little "light" reading here is just one of the research papers on the subject... oxidation of carbohydrate

    What ever you use out there, make sure that you read the label. Some other products that use multiple carbs are the new Powerbar formulation and Enervit. Most gels are only maltodextrine.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak
    5 bottles? That seems like a lot of refilling to me. Can you thicken it up for longer rides? With the Hammer stuff I make a real thick 7 hour bottle and wash it down with water or Heed in my Camelbak.
    right now I am using 3 hour/serving bottles with Infinit. My next race is lumberjack and it is 4 25 mile laps. There is one aid station about half to 2/3rds of the way through with a run near the pits about 1/3rd through (well that was the setup last year).
    I like having all the fuel I should need for a lap on one bottle. I use a hydration pack for water.
    Maybe its just me but for this type of race, or a point to point it seems to work out better.
    On my long training rides I just have how many ever servings I need past the first bottle in baggies ready to go.

    as others have said I had tried other products in the past and had stomach issues. No problems with Infinit so far. I have even done some pretty intense rides to test out my endurance formula without issue.

    so far so good. the real test will be in just over 2 weeks with Lumberjack

  42. #42
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    I'm about to pull the trigger on Infinit based on reviews here and friends that have had very good success with it.

    My question is - what about caffeine? Is anyone using it for races longer than a few hours?

    I noticed Eatough's 100mi mix has a good bit (looks like a bit over 1/4 on the slider) but I don't know how much that is in mgs.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtnBikeNC
    I'm about to pull the trigger on Infinit based on reviews here and friends that have had very good success with it.

    My question is - what about caffeine? Is anyone using it for races longer than a few hours?

    I noticed Eatough's 100mi mix has a good bit (looks like a bit over 1/4 on the slider) but I don't know how much that is in mgs.
    Yes I use caffeine in one of my blends and yes I use it in races that are longer than a few hours. If you look at my post from 3 days ago you will see I have three blends, two of them are identical blends except one is caffeinated and one isn't. The third blend is completely different that the other two.

    By having a blend that has caffeine in it and one that doesn't you can use the caffeine strategically on an as need basis.

  44. #44
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    To answer the question about the carb mix, ours is a combination of maltodextine, glucose and sucrose. We stay away from fructose because on the ultra stuff, fructose can irritate your stomach lining. It is the harshest of all the carbs.

    The science of carbohydrate absorbtion is quite clear, the more types of carbs that you get in your nutrition, the more calories that your body absorbs. If you are using a singular carb source product like hammer or gatorade, you are only absorbing 70% of what you could. There are numerous studies that confirm this. If you want a little "light" reading here is just one of the research papers on the subject... oxidation of carbohydrate
    So I read throough this document. From what I understand the findings show that a mix of glucose and Sucrose increased performance, but the maltodextine didn't make a difference.

    What is the reason for the Malto in your carb mix?
    cheers
    Pagey

  45. #45
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    Hello everyone,

    I just found out about Infinit myself, so I ordered up the following mix today for my running. I know this is the mountain bike site, but nevertheless, I'd say it's similar. Here's what I made up:



    I experimented with it a bunch and when looking at the nutritional changes for how much you move the slider, this is what I ended up with. Most of my training runs during the week are less than an hour, and my longer runs range from 1-2 hours. Currently, I've been drinking Gatorade G2 Low Cal, usually a bottle during my weekly runs and usually anywhere from 50-75 ounces on the weekends. I'll also eat a Gu every 20-30 minutes, as well. I started with this plan at 243 lbs 2 months ago and have dropped down to 217 lbs so far, but I was way out of shape from when I used to do all of this. I'm trying to get back down to my 185-195 weight that I was when I was really into triathlons and adventure races back in the day over 10 years ago.

    The part I need to figure out is how much I need to be drinking ounces wise per hour and then figure based on that how much of the Infinit I need to mix in for roughly 300 calories/hour best I can tell, right?

    Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Chris

  46. #46
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    Anyone buy the single serving packets of infinit? Can you rip them open yourself with no tools easily, trailside at aid station, or do they need scissors?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfxc
    Anyone buy the single serving packets of infinit? Can you rip them open yourself with no tools easily, trailside at aid station, or do they need scissors?
    I got some and I've used them on trailside. They are super easy to tear open, even with gloves on, they have a little tear notch on each side of the packaging, up near the top.

    Normally I just use baggies and measure out 1hr of my custom blends per baggie. But I'm traveling to Australia for the Worlds 24hr Solo championship and I want to travel with something that customs won't give me any grief with and I think the single packs should do the job pretty well. The single serving packets also make it really easy to give to other riders who always want to know 'what do you race on?', next time I see them I just give them a packet.

  48. #48
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    I have been using Perpetum for about a year for all of my efforts over 3 hours. I seem to suffer from stomach issues every time my efforts extend over 4 hours.

    I have had enough. I'm going to switch to Infinit very soon. These stomach issues really got bad during my 18 hour event this past weekend. It causes me to not eat enough, and eventually stop drinking enough as well.
    CyclingCentralVa.org

  49. #49
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    David, I too had stomach problems after the first 4 hrs in a 24hr race this last weekend
    I was on Hammer stuf, I am going to try Infinit also..
    Dino.

  50. #50
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    I received my first mix listed above this week when I was away and will be trying it out tomorrow and Saturday for the first time. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

    Chris

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