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  1. #1
    JeffcoHo
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    Carbon 'bars and seat post for dampening.

    I was having a conversation over a beer and we were talking about the dampening effect of carbon seat post and bars. The problem is I can't remember the names of them.

    What are some good carbon seat posts and handlebars? I am also looking at at least 711mm wide.

    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    Easton Havens are great for dampening. I have them on all my bikes. And the bar is that wide.
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  3. #3
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    Ive got carbon bars and seatpost, and cant tell any difference between the carbon vs aluminum as far as dampening goes. The carbon is super stiff, and I dont think it makes any difference other than weight. This is just my perception of it.

  4. #4
    AZ
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    This seat post?

    Flash Carbon Seatpost

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffcoHo View Post
    I was having a conversation over a beer and we were talking about the dampening effect of carbon seat post and bars. The problem is I can't remember the names of them.

    What are some good carbon seat posts and handlebars? I am also looking at at least 711mm wide.

    Thanks
    Must have been a real short conversation.


    Magura

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  7. #7
    Daniel the Dog
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    I'm sorry but I don't feel a ton of dampening effect. I ride them because they are light and strong.

  8. #8
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    Somebody, maybe Syntace, is making a carbon seatpost the flexes more axially than it does longitudinally. Sounds like a cool idea, but spendy.

    As far as damping goes, that might be noticeable on a road bike, but there is no way switching from alu to carbon bars and post makes as much difference as reducing your tire pressure a few pounds, or even switching from budget 60tpi tires to smooth riding 120 tpi tires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    Somebody, maybe Syntace, is making a carbon seatpost the flexes more axially than it does longitudinally. Sounds like a cool idea, but spendy.
    Yep, Syntace P6-

    Syntace P6 Carbon HiFlex seatpost, Vector Carbon handlebar and Megaforce 2 stem Review | Mountain Bike Review

    I have one but have yet to ride with it, I just wanted to save a little weight and Syntace offers a ten year warranty. Their stuff goes thru some very rigorous stress testing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't feel a ton of dampening effect.
    That's because there isn't any worth considering

    This goes for the Syntace post too BTW., no matter what their marketing department claims.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Easton Havens are great for dampening. I have them on all my bikes. And the bar is that wide.
    Ditto! They are 711mm
    I use extra long grips on them and it makes holing on so much easier.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    That's because there isn't any worth considering

    This goes for the Syntace post too BTW., no matter what their marketing department claims.

    Magura
    The carbon fibre component that I've found makes a noticeable difference to comfort by reducing trail buzz is a carbon railed saddle. Changing from a Specialized Romin Expert saddle with titanium rails to a Specialized Romin Pro saddle with 7x9mm carbon fibre rails was a surprisingly large improvement.

    Even on a full suspension bike the carbon railed saddle gives a smoother ride than the same saddle with titanium rails, as though the tyres are at a slightly lower pressure or the rear shock's brain platform is a click softer.

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    I've been meaning to try a Syntace P6 Hiflex post for a while as apparently they do improve comfort. What's putting me off is that they're an in-line seatpost and I currently use a Thomson Elite layback seatpost so the riding position might not work. There are some other similar seatposts too, such as the Storck and Niner RDO posts which are claimed to offer some flex. This video shows the small amount of movement that is supposed to make a Niner RDO carbon seatpost more comfortable. I haven't actually tried one though.

    Niner RDO Seatpost



    (changed Niner video to a Youtube video that works now.)

    Apparently titanium seatposts can offer some additional comfort also.

    When it comes to handlebars I'd struggle to say that I've noticed any difference in vibration damping between various handlebars. The main factor for limiting vibration though the handlebars seems to be your fork's suspension settings and running the front tyre at lowish pressures.
    Last edited by WR304; 08-17-2012 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    The carbon fibre component that I've found makes a noticeable difference to comfort by reducing trail buzz is a carbon railed saddle. Changing from a Specialized Romin Expert saddle with titanium rails to a Specialized Romin Pro saddle with 7x9mm carbon fibre rails was a surprisingly large improvement.

    Even on a full suspension bike the carbon railed saddle gives a smoother ride than the same saddle with titanium rails, as though the tyres are at a slightly lower pressure or the rear shock's brain platform is a click softer.

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Apparently titanium seatposts can offer some additional comfort also.

    When it comes to handlebars I'd struggle to say that I've noticed any difference in vibration damping between various handlebars. The main factor for limiting vibration though the handlebars seems to be your fork's suspension settings and running the front tyre at lowish pressures.
    Comparing two completely different saddles, and claiming the benefit of one over the other, being due to a specific factor, is pretty flawed logic at best

    Regarding the comfort you seem to think you can get from x/y/z material seat post, you are going to be disappointed if you do a bit of measuring or math.

    Let's just make a quick thought experiment:

    If said seat post did actually flex enough to give some comfort, wouldn't you agree that it would have to fit the weight of the rider, like other suspension components?
    A seat post that can carry a 200lb rider and flex, would be pretty rigid under a 130lb rider, don't you think?

    The same goes for saddle rails, handlebars, and so forth.

    Magura

  14. #14
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    Comparing these specific saddles is an interesting one. The Specialized Romin Pro 143mm width (carbon rails) and Specialized Romin Expert 143mm width (titanium rails) aren't completely different saddles. Put them side by side and visually they're the same
    The saddle upper (plastic shell, padding, covering, shape and width) is identical between the two saddles.

    Specialized Romin Pro Saddle

    Specialized Romin Expert Saddle

    Where the two saddles differ is in the saddle rail material and also the connection points between the saddle rails and saddle. The carbon rails being bonded to the saddle. The carbon railed Romin Pro is noticeably more flexible in a fore-aft direction than the Romin Expert when you try and rock it by hand.

    It's when you ride the saddles on the same bike on familiar trails that the added comfort from the Romin Pro becomes apparent.

    I can't really comment on the different seatposts as I haven't tried them.

    Pictured below: Specialized Romin Pro and Specialized Romin Expert saddles have visually identical uppers. The only difference being the saddle rail material and connection points.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon 'bars and seat post for dampening.-romin_expert_pro.jpg  


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    That's because there isn't any worth considering

    This goes for the Syntace post too BTW., no matter what their marketing department claims.

    Magura
    Take that back Magura, I just spent big bucks on that post, lie to me if you have to

    I've never had anything but aluminum bars and seat posts. I aim to try for myself and see If I can discern an appreciatable difference. At least I'll save a little weight.





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  16. #16
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    Why is it $180?
    is it seriously worth that much in benefits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    Why is it $180?
    is it seriously worth that much in benefits?
    Well, as I said I aim to find out. To be sure with the Syntace products you save weight and get a ten year warranty.

    Of course there are diminishing returns after a certain point and I imagine this is the case with high dollar carbon components. An $80 part may be twice as good as a $50 part, but a $180 part may only be marginally better, thatís usually how it goes as you approach the higher end stuff.

    Is it worth it? that will depend on ones wants, needs, and amount of discretionary income. Hell, if I were concerned about the money I damn sure wouldn't have taken up mountain biking.

    Top of the line components are awesome, haters are gonna hate.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Comparing these specific saddles is an interesting one. The Specialized Romin Pro 143mm width (carbon rails) and Specialized Romin Expert 143mm width (titanium rails) aren't completely different saddles. Put them side by side and visually they're the same
    The saddle upper (plastic shell, padding, covering, shape and width) is identical between the two saddles.

    Where the two saddles differ is in the saddle rail material and also the connection points between the saddle rails and saddle. The carbon rails being bonded to the saddle. The carbon railed Romin Pro is noticeably more flexible in a fore-aft direction than the Romin Expert when you try and rock it by hand.

    It's when you ride the saddles on the same bike on familiar trails that the added comfort from the Romin Pro becomes apparent.

    I can't really comment on the different seatposts as I haven't tried them.

    Pictured below: Specialized Romin Pro and Specialized Romin Expert saddles have visually identical uppers. The only difference being the saddle rail material and connection points.
    Visually those saddles are very similar, you are right this far, but they work in two completely different ways.
    What makes the big difference, is the connection points.
    The carbon rail version, is a single piece, thus the built in suspension is based on deflection.
    The titanium rail version is based on defection and pivot points.

    That makes for a completely different construction.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Take that back Magura, I just spent big bucks on that post, lie to me if you have to

    I've never had anything but aluminum bars and seat posts. I aim to try for myself and see If I can discern an appreciatable difference. At least I'll save a little weight.
    Well, if you still believe in the marketing department of Syntace, go make a quick experiment.

    Mount your new seat post, measure the distance from the saddle rails to for instance the top of the rear brake caliper.
    Now sit on the bike, and do the same measurement.

    If the difference is less than 10-15mm (approx. half an inch), you got a regular seatpost with a funny story. If it deflects like 10mm or more, well, I'm wrong and the marketing department of Syntace is right


    Magura

  20. #20
    ONE speed under God.
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    I've got a Nashbar carbon post and carbon bar on my rigid 29ER. They have both smoothed out the ride significantly compared to the aluminum parts they replaced... And I would never go for $100 each for these parts when the Nashbar post is $40, and the bar is $45. And since I weigh 255 and these parts work fine, they will probably work for you.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGABIGD View Post
    I've got a Nashbar carbon post and carbon bar on my SS 29ER. I believeThey have both smoothed out the ride significantly compared to the aluminum parts they replaced... And I would never do for $100 for these parts when the Nashbar post is $40, and the bar is $45. And since I weigh 255 and these parts work fine, they will probably work for you.
    Fixed it for you


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  22. #22
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    Here are some links to a few recent magazine tests comparing the relative flex of different seatposts.

    http://www.schmolke-carbon.de/carbon...omprimiert.pdf

    http://velonews.competitor.com/files...90_VeloJun.jpg

    There's also a seatpost test in the German tour quarterly online magazine 01/2012 which I read a few weeks ago but can't find the link to again. If I do find it I'll post the link.

    The previous 4/2011 edition is here.

    www.tour-quarterly.com

    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon 'bars and seat post for dampening.-velo_seatpost1.jpg  

    Carbon 'bars and seat post for dampening.-velo_seatpost2.jpg  

    Carbon 'bars and seat post for dampening.-velonews_seatpost_june2012.jpg  


  23. #23
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    Very interesting physics analysis. So according to this, the posts with more flex give you more of the carbon damping properties it seems. The ones with the least flex don't appear to offer much more damping than an aluminum post, yes ?
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  24. #24
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    That's all good.

    Now where is the test protocol? That should make the first alarm bells go off.

    Which frame was used?
    How far were the posts inserted into the frame?

    That a post with a bigger setback will flex more than one without, does not require a test, as that is simple math.

    Were all seat post clamps of the same length? If not, it would be the saddle rails making a difference.

    Did they measure the load on the bars as well? Not really as far as I can tell. If not, just a couple of centimeters of different body position, would make more difference than the entire scale they work with.

    Depending how heavy the rider is, and the seat tube angle, the flex is going to be more or less.
    With no rider weight indication on the posts, I call marketing babble.

    1 or 2 mm of travel, is not going to make much of a difference on a mountain bike. To get some dampening worth considering, travel is needed.

    You may want to look into the numbers they quote from their test. As far as I can tell, the numbers are of no importance to a MTB. At less than 1G difference, hardly any travel, this will drown in any MTB tire suspension by a magnitude.

    A "test" like the above, is what goes into the category called "technobabble".

    If any of the manufacturers indeed believed their product had the claimed properties, I find it very strange they don't simply get a real test made at an independent institute with credibility?
    Now a proof of such a claim, from an independent test institute, would be worth its weight in gold to the marketing department, and such patent would be worth even more.

    So far all I see, is marketing babble, and goofy patent applications, that never goes past the PCT stage for some reason.

    Magura

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGABIGD View Post
    Very interesting physics analysis. So according to this, the posts with more flex give you more of the carbon damping properties it seems. The ones with the least flex don't appear to offer much more damping than an aluminum post, yes ?
    No, the more travel, the more damping. It's as simple as that.

    Be that steel, aluminum, cryptonite, you name it.

    The damping that composites can offer, is a long way from what that "test" tries to show.
    As in many orders of magnitude.

    What you see in the test, is the results of a spring.


    Magura

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