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  1. #1
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    AZT 300 unofficial thread

    Anyone considering this one for next year, Scott has not posted here but he has set the date for April 18th. http://www.topofusion.com/azt/race.php

    If I do it again it will just be an excuse to get away for a few days I am thinking 5 days not racing just a semi-fast paced tour. Hell last year Zach and I were the only ones to finish and won in 4 days 15 hours. A far cry from Scotts 2 days 16 hours record setting win the first year.

    Tim
    Last edited by AZTtripper; 12-13-2007 at 07:23 PM.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  2. #2
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    I'd like too.. Need to get in a couple overnight trip/epics in to get the "feel". I would be more inclined to try it touring. I have ridden part of the route. Picked up Azt near the Sonoita exit off i 10 to reddington and over to Catalina hwy. Sleptfroze in a creek bed and continued up and over to Oracle.

    I'd still like to preride the first 80mi. Anybody else thinkin about pre-rides?

  3. #3
    Tucson, AZ
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    I might do it on a horse this year.

  4. #4
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    I'm Down

    Quote Originally Posted by z rocks
    I'd still like to preride the first 80mi. Anybody else thinkin about pre-rides?
    Little cold right now for an overnighter, but we could bust out a SV to Patagonia point to point ride on Sunday if you don't mind dropping a car off in Patagonia on Saturday afternoon(ride from the house!). We could also do Patagonia /Elephant Head/Box Canyon/Hwy 83, first stash a car at the entrance to KY Camp or in Sonoita, then just nip back down the highway to the car when we're done. The second ride would be a bit longer, so we'd probably need lights and lots of warm clothes. Let me know, I'm up for a longer ride/hike-a-bike this weekend.(as long as it's not dumping rain!)

    The "Sierra Vista Prologue" is a nice addition to the first part of the official AZT race route for anyone who's never done it before. Great singletrack on both sides of the Huachucas, and a sweet climb(if that's what you're into, and I know you are) up Garden Canyon and over the pass.
    You COULD do it on a geared bike, but I wouldn't reccomend it!

    Derailleurs are for failures!

  5. #5
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    AZT fun

    Sounds like a plan.... Plant the sag shuttle in Patagonia Saturday, head out bright and early Sunday from the house. Think we may need lights? I know B-man will be into this if he can. Lemme know. Might switch to coasty for a day....

  6. #6
    Scott in Tucson
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    Good job! The 300

    I've had some pretty serious thoughts about racing it again this year. It's a great excuse to spend 3-4 days riding some really fun/hard stuff.

    Race date is April 18th, as Tim said. Near perfect lunar conditions:

    Phase of the Moon on 18 April: waxing gibbous with 97% of the Moon's visible disk illuminated.

    Full Moon on 20 April 2008 at 3:25 a.m. Mountain Standard Time.


    Unless there's objection, I'm going to change the course up on Redington Pass. The idea is to get people off the well traveled road and onto more fun stuff. It'll get rid of the 'funny' feel of riding "away" from where you're about to head, too. Moving time is almost identical for the old vs. new route.

    I'll have a new GPS file soon. Everything else should be about the same, plus or minus trail conditions.

    Rumor is that the first ~3 miles of Oracle Ridge have been seriously rehabbed. I might have to go "hab" it back. What fun will it be if we can ride our bikes up there?!
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  7. #7
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    I might do it on a horse this year.
    There's too much hike-a-horse.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Rumor is that the first ~3 miles of Oracle Ridge have been seriously rehabbed. I might have to go "hab" it back. What fun will it be if we can ride our bikes up there?!
    As long as the "traverse-o-death" is still there, we should be good!
    You COULD do it on a geared bike, but I wouldn't reccomend it!

    Derailleurs are for failures!

  9. #9
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein

    Unless there's objection, I'm going to change the course up on Redington Pass. The idea is to get people off the well traveled road and onto more fun stuff. It'll get rid of the 'funny' feel of riding "away" from where you're about to head, too. Moving time is almost identical for the old vs. new route.
    I think you should add bug springs and green mountain instead of the highway also

  10. #10
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    As long as the "traverse-o-death" is still there, we should be good!
    Mark,

    Have you done the traverse of death? I am glad that it is gone to be honest.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    Mark,

    Have you done the traverse of death? I am glad that it is gone to be honest.
    Just once, but it seemed to last forever!
    You COULD do it on a geared bike, but I wouldn't reccomend it!

    Derailleurs are for failures!

  12. #12
    Really I am that slow
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    so wanna

    But damn its close to trans- Iowa

    hummmm
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  13. #13
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    Wow

    That was quick the first post was up before I finished my coffee. Glad to see a lot of interest.

    Scott: the mores the better I love hike a horse.

    Snot: as was pointed out the first year yes, this is close to the TI you will just have to choose between SINGLE TRACK in AZ and dirt roads in IA.

    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

    Tim
    Last edited by AZTtripper; 12-13-2007 at 07:22 PM.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  14. #14
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper

    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

    Tim
    I think that there is not that much hike-a-bike. I must have cleared more stuff than you guys.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    I think that there is not that much hike-a-bike. I must have cleared more stuff than you guys.
    Then what is the horse all about??
    Dave

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Then what is the horse all about??

    To carry beer, of course!

  17. #17
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    I don't know why, but I'm contemplating this. It could be a great way to "train" for the CTR that I am planning on doing this summer. I'd have to take a close look at how long it would take me as I am a teacher and getting time off like that during the school year is tough. How hard is it to get to the start from the airport (which airport?!). The logistics for me might be tough. Sorry, thinking out loud again.

  18. #18
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    I think you should add bug springs and green mountain instead of the highway also
    Bugs is a possibility, since it's quite rideable at the bottom, and really, a great climb. By then they should have the middle sections built in and more rideable.

    Green, though... !! That might be over the top.

    I'll ask you what you think after you've ridden from Parker Lake to the top of Bugs....
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  19. #19
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    hmmmm

    i could fast tour it and maybe still do transIowa? Kind of a long shot but I'm thinking about it a little bit.
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  20. #20
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    I think that there is not that much hike-a-bike. I must have cleared more stuff than you guys.
    Riiiiiiight...

    Truth be told, there's likely more hiking involved in both the GLR and CTR.

    So, you're right.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  21. #21
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherpaxc
    I don't know why, but I'm contemplating this. It could be a great way to "train" for the CTR that I am planning on doing this summer. I'd have to take a close look at how long it would take me as I am a teacher and getting time off like that during the school year is tough. How hard is it to get to the start from the airport (which airport?!). The logistics for me might be tough. Sorry, thinking out loud again.
    You could fly in to Tucson. There should be a ride set up to get people from there to the start race morning.

    Then you either need to get back to Tucson, or fly out of Phoenix (finish is closer to Phoenix). Round trip to peenix is usually cheaper, so that might work better. You can get a peenix airport to Tucson airport shuttle for fairly cheap.

    Tucson is right in the middle of the route, so from a bailing perspective, it might make sense to base flights and such from there.

    Just a few thoughts.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  22. #22
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Then what is the horse all about??
    Thought I would go for another record since bike and hike records are already set... horse is the only other thing allowed on the trail.

  23. #23
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    To carry beer, of course!
    And there is that, beer. I am on a 1554 kick lately. We might do a night ride in Sedona or day ride in SoMo tomorrow afternoon, would you be interested in the former?

  24. #24
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    Chad

    How many beers does it take to get the horse to ride a bike? Oh and what does it ride I am guessing it is a full suspension horse. Or does it prefer a rigid 69er like me.

    And then the real question who has the right of way when a person on a horse meets a horse on a bike. On level ground of course because we all know that the climber has the right of way.

    Tim
    Last edited by AZTtripper; 12-13-2007 at 07:20 PM.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  25. #25
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    I only respond to official threads

    so if someone would kindly point me in that direction I'll be on my way

  26. #26
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Punk
    so if someone would kindly point me in that direction I'll be on my way

    I officially invite you to participate, unofficially, in this unofficial discussion of this wholly unofficial race.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  27. #27
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    Seams like as good an excuse as any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    I officially invite you to participate, unofficially, in this unofficial discussion of this wholly unofficial race.
    Seams like as good an excuse as any. . I would highly recommend we all start looking for a better one for ourselves.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  28. #28
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    Horses for Courses?!

    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    Or does it prefer a rigid 69er like me.


    I believe this is illegal in the state of Arizona, ergo the discussion is moot.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    I believe this is illegal in the state of Arizona, ergo the discussion is moot.
    My moto has always been never brake more than one law at a time so as long the bike is not in a Wilderness Area. Well and of course both the bike and horse have to be of legal age and willing and all.

    Tim
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  30. #30
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    I'm in this year

    ...And so excited too. I would have liked to have ridden it with you Chad.

  31. #31
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    velocitramp

    Welcome to the unofficial AZT 300 glad to hear you are planning on joining the race. It is good to start planning early so as to have a good excuse for not showing once the time comes. Just kidding it is a great ride/walk in through the beautiful Sonoran desert.

    Tim
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  32. #32
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    Huachucas and Canelos Pre-Ride Report

    Well, just got back from a nice point to point ride on part of the race course. Three of us set out at 6:30 this morning, Z-rocks, Beto V., and myself. We started out from Sierra Vista, and let me tell you, it was a tad chilly at sunrise down here this morning, somewhere in the mid to high twenties! Cold enough to freeze the water in my camelback hose! Up Garden Canyon, and up and over the Huachucas, down the backside and on to the AZT. We hit Parker lake after about two and a half hours, whereupon Z-rocks decided he wasn't feelin' the love and decided to bail. Apparently when you're used to riding fixie offroad and switch to a freewheel for just one ride it does funny things to your legs.

    Undeterred, Beto and I pushed on. It was just the typical Canelo Hills love fest. Never ending hike-a -bike? Check. Loose babyhead size rocks everywhere? Check. Illegal alien trails more groomed and buff than the AZT proper? Check. Shin shredding hate plants? Check. Trail markers where there were none last time pointing in new, unknown directions? Check. Horse people riding in the mud two or three days earlier and tearing the $hit out of the trail? Check. Great scenery and wicked fun singletrack? Check. No one brought their camera? Check.

    The trail was in decent shape for the most part(decent for the AZT Canelo Hills), with about a dozen blow downs from the recent weather, most of which were small enough to clear ourselves. There was one spot on Canelo West at the start of the grasslands and before redrocks, where previously you would cross a small jeep trail, then jump on some sweet rolling singletrack bench-cun into the side of the hill going down a ridgeline to a small stocktank. There were some new trail markers routing you away from the singletrack and around to the right, through a gate and ending up down by the tank(all jeep trail). Is this a new re-route? I haven't been out there in a while, and have always just taken the singletrack(which we did today also), especially since that section is way fun.

    Anyways, we finished up the ride at about 2:30, coasted down Harshaw road to Patagonia for pizza, beer, and some hot tortilla soup at the Velvet Elvis.
    You COULD do it on a geared bike, but I wouldn't reccomend it!

    Derailleurs are for failures!

  33. #33
    Scott in Tucson
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    Well, just got back from a nice point to point ride on part of the race course.

    Anyways, we finished up the ride at about 2:30, coasted down Harshaw road to Patagonia for pizza, beer, and some hot tortilla soup at the Velvet Elvis.
    Mark,

    Business as usual out in the Canelo Hills, eh?

    Thanks much for the report. You made good time considering the prologue and dead-fall clearing. Nice.

    Not sure about the reroutes, or where exactly the singletrack you've been following is. Tim might be more familiar with new trail sections on Canelo East. As for the west singletrack, there was a long section of dirt road that was replaced by ST a few years ago, but the sign was down the last time I was there. It goes through a short wire gate. That's the way the race route goes.

    I'm intrigued by the S.V. prologue route. I think I've got a GPS file for it from Dejay, but I'd love to see it on the ground sometime.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  34. #34
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    That's the spot. We thought maybe the signs had blown down and someone put them back up wrong.

    If you wanna come down and check it out sometime, lemme know. We usually like to ride out to the lake, loop around the lake shore trail, water up at the store and head back the way we came. Makes for about a seven hour ride and about fifty miles.
    You COULD do it on a geared bike, but I wouldn't reccomend it!

    Derailleurs are for failures!

  35. #35
    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocitramp
    ...And so excited too. I would have liked to have ridden it with you Chad.
    free Pabst and Fat Tire always tastes better with company.

  36. #36
    Just go ride!
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    I am hoping to be there!

    It's been on my calendar for a long time now. I won't have much time-off then, so I'm not sure how I'm gonna make it work, but it is a high priority for me.

    I'm fully expecting more hike-a-bike than the CTR! To be competitive in the race, it sounds like I might have to break down and buy a GPS though...
    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -TJ

  37. #37
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    long course?

    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    Anyone considering this one for next year, Scott has not posted here but he has set the date for April 18th. http://www.topofusion.com/azt/race.php
    Tim
    anyone considering the long course (the 700)? scott, is it worth it? i can't remember what the net fun quotient was when you did it couple yrs ago. the big ditch i suppose is going to suck no matter. seems to me if it's encouraged, that's the direction the true junkies will take AZT eventually, yes?

  38. #38
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    I'm fully expecting more hike-a-bike than the CTR! To be competitive in the race, it sounds like I might have to break down and buy a GPS though...
    You may be disappointed on the hike-a-bike. I can pretty much guarantee better weather, though.

    Re: GPS - it sure helps. One could beat the current record without it, though. With a moderate amount of map work and web reading, one can figure it out, I think.

    Hope to see you in April.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  39. #39
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathewsen
    anyone considering the long course (the 700)? scott, is it worth it? i can't remember what the net fun quotient was when you did it couple yrs ago. the big ditch i suppose is going to suck no matter. seems to me if it's encouraged, that's the direction the true junkies will take AZT eventually, yes?
    Good question. Thoughts of the full AZT race have been bouncing around in emails and in my head lately.

    Is it the right time? Maybe.

    Is it worth it? Absolutely.

    A two distance format, with a common start date, is a possible future for this race. But how to set the route (for the 700-800) is less clear, as is setting the start date. Snow on the North Rim is an issue. Three options for high snow years:

    1) cancel - only hold the 300
    2) post-hole for 40 miles
    3) allow riding the road

    Or start in June and see if anyone can survive 110 degrees for a few days.

    The 700 mile route I did in '05 is a set, TT'able route (there's a book with cues to follow), but it's a far cry from the real AZT. It shares very little with the AZT 300 route, which was what makes the 300 so interesting.

    Ideally I would like to see the full AZT route come out like the CTR route - stick with the trail in general, but not get too crazy. Besides the snow issue, the AZT is also unfinished, unlike the CTR. So it may be that waiting a couple more years makes sense.

    But I am not so sure. Thoughts?
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  40. #40
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    Thoughts & questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    But I am not so sure. Thoughts?
    From someone who's never done the AZTx00 and only maybe ever will:

    - I ride in Tucson in June, but in small, metered doses. If the start date is in June you'll deal only with madmen and their widows.

    - What would be the plan for crossing the GCNP? I understood that you had to get double secret permission when you and Lee packed your disassembled bikes through it.

    - You alluded to the date so I'll run with it: is an autumn start better for the overall best climate? I don't know when the snow flies up there, but if it's after mid Octoberish then maybe move the start 6 months.

    - Do you know if anyone has done it North to South? Tequila shots at the finish could provide strong motivation. !Aye chihuahua!

  41. #41
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    Rock Punk “What would be the plan for crossing the GCNP? I understood that you had to get double secret permission when you and Lee packed your disassembled bikes through it.”

    After Scott was given permission to carry through in 05 I just went for it in 06 didn’t tell anyone but the girl in the back country office when getting my camping permit. On the way down from the south rim I ran into a ranger all she cared about was that I had a permit. And she did seam very interested in my trip seamed like she was trying to memorize my name. She said she had met Scott and Lee and then kept repeating my name as thou to remember better.

    mathewsen wrote “the big ditch i suppose is going to suck no matter. seems to me if it's encouraged, that's the direction the true junkies will take AZT eventually, yes?”

    Yes it is definitely the way to go much better than the 215 miles of pavement to ride around. Last year a couple from Washington State attempted the route described in the now out of print complete guide to mountain biking the AZT book. Their plan was to hike through the canyon with their bikes. They had shipped old frame packs to the south rim then the plan was to throw them away on the other side. They ran out of time and bailed at Flagstaff.

    The only hassle I got was from the second mule team driver. The first team I met at a wide spot and the guy was real cool (seamed impressed). The second team was at a tight spot and I had to act quickly to get my pack off and jump up onto ledge to get out of the way. I don’t think he even had to slow down but he did ***** about not knowing what I was going to do with those wheels and get out of the way. I recommended that the couple from WA learn the mule schedule so that they could know when to expect them and find good passing places so as not to be caught by surprise as I was.

    Rock Punk wrote “You alluded to the date so I'll run with it: is an autumn start better for the overall best climate? I don't know when the snow flies up there, but if it's after mid Octoberish then maybe move the start 6 months.

    Do you know if anyone has done it North to South? Tequila shots at the finish could provide strong motivation. !Aye Chihuahua”

    The guide book was written for a North to South trip and recommends a fall start. If you are doing that route it would work out fine I am sure. Living here in Tucson I have always been inclined to start in the spring and take advantage of possible ground water from winter rains. In 04 I rode around the canyon and arrived at the North Rim just before opening day May 15 there was little snow and I got to ride everything north of the Canyon. In 06 I carried through and got to the North Rim In April way before opening day and got snowed out and had to take the highway. Either way you go you could get caught in snow or end up dealing with high temps.
    Last edited by AZTtripper; 12-19-2007 at 04:40 AM.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  42. #42
    Exactly 1/2 of 2-Epic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    A two distance format, with a common start date, is a possible future for this race. But how to set the route (for the 700-800) is less clear, as is setting the start date. Snow on the North Rim is an issue. Three options for high snow years:

    1) cancel - only hold the 300
    2) post-hole for 40 miles
    3) allow riding the road

    Or start in June and see if anyone can survive 110 degrees for a few days.
    Thoughts?
    Hmmm...I think the two ( AZT300 vs. AZT MTB route) are different enough that they should be run at different dates. The 300 has a unique spot on the calendar...one that I don't think would work for Norther AZ. You'd have to bump the whole thing to the fall. I've hit this issue myself.

    Also, aside from the GC jaunt, the full AZT MTB route is a lot less technical - right?

    Seems like 2 very different events that wouldn't benefit from simultaneous starts.
    Dave

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  43. #43
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    Hiking quotient..

    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    You may be disappointed on the hike-a-bike. I can pretty much guarantee better weather, though.

    Re: GPS - it sure helps. One could beat the current record without it, though. With a moderate amount of map work and web reading, one can figure it out, I think.

    Hope to see you in April.
    ,

    Krein,

    Is this a promise? Are you talking less hiking per mile, or overall hiking per event? I would be consulting Eric L post event certainly... I'm assuming you can guarantee less lightning than CTR!?

    More seriously - I am asking regarding the hike a bike AND GPS. Records are great and all, but I'm more concerned with making it through. It would be appealing to think one could buy some maps, show up, scratch their head, try real hard to keep up with other folks, etc., etc., and still find the finish (ie sans electronics). How would you compare the routefinding to GLR for instance? Or maybe better, how would you compare it to Paradox trail, and separately, Tabeguache trail (both of GLR fame)? Or perhaps any other more well known routes..

    Thanks,

    FW

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    ,

    More seriously - I am asking regarding the hike a bike AND GPS.
    FW
    Having done sections of the AZT pre-race and the race last year, I highly recommend that you have a GPS (especially if you plan on riding at night). The GPS will make your race more efficient, since the cue sheets are fairly long and might take some problem solving to understand at some sections. I know that you are anti-GPS, Fred, but I think it might be a good training tool to purchase one. Scott's topofusion is amazing; I highly recommend the purchase of it with a GPS.

    My major caveat: I did not have tire tracks to follow after Patagonia and I was new to a GPS and did not have the entire course on my unit. I used cue sheets for part of the race and the GPS for the last half, so I think I have a unique experience with regards to the race. I had to follow the "tourers" for the 30 miles or so before Patagonia since the cue sheets "were a little off" according to Krein. Not sure if those are fixed, but that area is a bit confusing in some sections if you have never ridden it.

    On a side note, if I do not race AZT this year, you are welcome to use my GPS. If I do decided to ride/race, you can follow me

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Good question. Thoughts of the full AZT race have been bouncing around in emails and in my head lately.

    Is it the right time? Maybe.

    Is it worth it? Absolutely.

    A two distance format, with a common start date, is a possible future for this race. But how to set the route (for the 700-800) is less clear, as is setting the start date. Snow on the North Rim is an issue. Three options for high snow years:

    1) cancel - only hold the 300
    2) post-hole for 40 miles
    3) allow riding the road

    Or start in June and see if anyone can survive 110 degrees for a few days.

    The 700 mile route I did in '05 is a set, TT'able route (there's a book with cues to follow), but it's a far cry from the real AZT. It shares very little with the AZT 300 route, which was what makes the 300 so interesting.

    Ideally I would like to see the full AZT route come out like the CTR route - stick with the trail in general, but not get too crazy. Besides the snow issue, the AZT is also unfinished, unlike the CTR. So it may be that waiting a couple more years makes sense.

    But I am not so sure. Thoughts?
    questions:
    can you summarize how the 300 route and the first half of the 700 route differ? is there ease of splice? second half too anticlimactic?

    out of 5 years of snowline observations (factoring in diminishing snow levels), how many are truly posthole years by the date riders would arrive to the n. rim? (which would be what? apr 23rd this year)

    i am not a desert rat in tune with this trail's nuance but i can appreciate the speculation for perfect conditions. seems to me for simplicity's sake, tho, that you run them contiguously and take climatology as it comes. allow for legal road alternate in necessary yrs and asterisk such in the annals. my guess is eventually the grand tour will become the favored course length for true junkies...and (historical comparisons aside) why wait on better logistics or route refinement to deliver the essential experience? trying to factor out "acts of god" is human but at the expense of dividing collective azt interest, not so sure. fall has many conflicting events and the late-season charred-brain/legs factor to compete with.

    plus, isn't flower season down south during late april?

  46. #46
    Scott in Tucson
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    Good thoughts so far. First response is about the 700/800 mile full AZT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Punk
    - What would be the plan for crossing the GCNP? I understood that you had to get double secret permission when you and Lee packed your disassembled bikes through it.
    No special permiso required, as per Tim's comments. For the 7 day trip I told no one, got no permits. Rangers tend to freak when they see bike/helmet, but calm down when they see it's not assembled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Punk
    is an autumn start better for the overall best climate? I don't know when the snow flies up there, but if it's after mid Octoberish then maybe move the start 6 months.
    Oct. is possible. Shorter days by about an hour. It's workable as a possible time for the full tour. I started my 7-day trip on October 19th.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Hmmm...I think the two ( AZT300 vs. AZT MTB route) are different enough that they should be run at different dates. Also, aside from the GC jaunt, the full AZT MTB route is a lot less technical - right?
    That's one of the biggest questions. Should the full race follow the route I did in '05, or actually ride more of the trail? My feeling is that Andrea's route needs to die a slow death, remaining for folks with Bob Trailers to tour. Besides avoiding really fun sections, the route is also woefully out of date. The singletrack that has been built (and is now being built) in the last ~6 years is generally rideable and well worth doing.

    So the question remains - how much longer to wait for unfinished sections to be built? Maintaining records will become difficult as pavement is traded for singletrack. But perhaps we don't care much for records.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathewsen
    can you summarize how the 300 route and the first half of the 700 route differ? is there ease of splice? second half too anticlimactic?
    The second half is not at all anticlimactic, but the 300 does end at Superior for a good reason. The Superstitions are a serious blockade for AZT cyclists. Two options exist:

    1) ride some 100 miles of ~busy dirt and pavement to the next "good" section of AZT
    2) follow a slow hike-a-bike / bushwack route pioneered by Blackwell and Morris in '05 (see: http://www.topofusion.com/azt/super.php)

    As for the differences between the 700 (Andrea) route and the 300 - they share about 15 miles of pavement, 2 miles of AZT and 8 miles of 4x4 road. That's it. They really are completely different routes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathewsen
    out of 5 years of snowline observations (factoring in diminishing snow levels), how many are truly posthole years by the date riders would arrive to the n. rim? (which would be what? apr 23rd this year)
    That's a good question. There's no snowtel site up there, but perhaps a call to the Park Service is in order.

    Here's May 13th 2005:

    <img src=http://www.topofusion.com/azt/pictures2/DSC00469.JPG>

    and April ~20 2006:

    <img src=http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4189/2883/320/P4200591.jpg>

    We need more data points, for sure. But generally the north rim does not open until mid-May (that's the date they advertise), so that's a pretty good indicator.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathewsen
    trying to factor out "acts of god" is human but at the expense of dividing collective azt interest, not so sure.
    Sure. If the AZT were finished we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. That's the largest factor holding back a full deal AZT race. The 700 route was a fun TT, but it doesn't deserve a title of "Arizona Trail Race" despite the fact that it could be raced now. In order to avoid further confusion, I think it's best to not hold a race on it.

    I know where Tim stands on this issue (he still hasn't forgiven me for "racing" Andrea's route). But I would like to hear from others...
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  47. #47
    Scott in Tucson
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    This reply is regarding hike-a-bike and GPS use in the 300 only.

    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk

    Is this a promise? Are you talking less hiking per mile, or overall hiking per event? I would be consulting Eric L post event certainly...

    I'm assuming you can guarantee less lightning than CTR!?
    The Arizona Trail 300--less lightning strikes per mile--guaranteed!

    Hike-a-bike is hard to quantify, since it depends on so many things (conditions, skill, weight carried, energy of rider).

    I feel like I walked about the same number of steps in the GLR and AZT 300. But the walking was of a different nature - in the GLR it was often due to heat or lack of energy. Throw in the sections that are legitimate hike-a-bikes (Roubideau, Salt Creek, Rose Garden, etc) and I did quite a bit of walking on the Grand Loop.

    For the CTR, I would not say that there is the same amount of hike-a-bike, per mile, but perhaps the same amount in 500 miles of CT as 300 miles of AZT. But I am less certain of this, since I haven't even ridden the worst part of the CT (Sargents Mesa). I'll need one of you guys to come down and make this comparison for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by frejwilk
    More seriously - I am asking regarding the hike a bike AND GPS. Records are great and all, but I'm more concerned with making it through. It would be appealing to think one could buy some maps, show up, scratch their head, try real hard to keep up with other folks, etc., etc., and still find the finish (ie sans electronics). How would you compare the routefinding to GLR for instance? Or maybe better, how would you compare it to Paradox trail, and separately, Tabeguache trail (both of GLR fame)? Or perhaps any other more well known routes..
    This is really hard to quantify, since I've only approached the AZT with GPS. But my feeling is that the route-finding is much more concrete and easier than either Paradox or Tabeguache. Sections of those trails are so infrequently used and so poorly signed that tire tracks, good map work or a GPS are really necessary. The AZT is used by hikers, has a large organization supporting it, and is generally well signed. There are tricky spots, and signs disappear, but things aren't as mystical as on the GLR.

    When the 300 route is off the AZT the cues should be good enough. I have had some confirmation of this, but no one has finished sans GPS, yet, either. More about that below.

    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    My major caveat: I did not have tire tracks to follow after Patagonia and I was new to a GPS and did not have the entire course on my unit. I used cue sheets for part of the race and the GPS for the last half, so I think I have a unique experience with regards to the race. I had to follow the "tourers" for the 30 miles or so before Patagonia since the cue sheets "were a little off" according to Krein. Not sure if those are fixed, but that area is a bit confusing in some sections if you have never ridden it.
    There is a clarification that I need to make on the AZT 300 site.

    The cue sheets are very detailed and quite accurate when the route is OFF the Arizona Trail. This is because the routes are my own creation - not standard, accepted or necessarily known.

    When the route is AZT, I have some rough cues and notes, but generally, it's up to people to follow the GPS or research beforehand. The AZT is a known quantity, with guidebooks and web pages detailing it. With appropriate prep, it really shouldn't be a problem. You won't always know you're on track, but people ride these stretches of trail often without any maps, GPS, or preparation (including the section Chad is referring to).

    That said, a GPS is a great tool to level the playing field for non-locals. It is highly recommended for this race.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    You won't always know you're on track, but people ride these stretches of trail often without any maps, GPS, or preparation (including the section Chad is referring to).

    That said, a GPS is a great tool to level the playing field for non-locals. It is highly recommended for this race.
    The cue sheets are quite detailed. It is obvious that Scott has put a lot of work into the trail and the race. I should also add that I was flying solo and in front after Patagonia, and had never really used a GPS (on a bike). I am sure if you are behind a few people, you will be able to also see tracks in most of the tricky areas.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    So the question remains - how much longer to wait for unfinished sections to be built? Maintaining records will become difficult as pavement is traded for singletrack. But perhaps we don't care much for records.
    Why wait?

    One thought: do as much singletrack as possible without adding horrendous hikes and run with it. Use Andrea's route for reroutes when necessary. As for records, they'd have to be tied to a specific course. New trail and new routes just mean that route has not been raced yet.

    In contrast to the 300, the full route might not get as much play if it's as hard, mile for mile, as the 300. GDR riders could use the full AZT as a springboard for the bigg'n, but if the entire route was as rough as the 300 it might not be so appealing. But I could be off base there?
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    The cue sheets are quite detailed. It is obvious that Scott has put a lot of work into the trail and the race. I should also add that I was flying solo and in front after Patagonia, and had never really used a GPS (on a bike). I am sure if you are behind a few people, you will be able to also see tracks in most of the tricky areas.
    Yep. I should add that if you want to be uber-competitive and have not ridden any of the route before, there's no question you should get a GPS. But if you want to survive and not spend major time lost, you should be fine with the combination of tire tracks, cues, maps and a little AZT research.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Why wait?

    In contrast to the 300, the full route might not get as much play if it's as hard, mile for mile, as the 300. GDR riders could use the full AZT as a springboard for the bigg'n, but if the entire route was as rough as the 300 it might not be so appealing. But I could be off base there?
    You might be a little off. Even Andrea's route, with the GC hike and the singletrack it does have, is significantly different than the on the GDR. Distance wise it's a good stepping stone, but not so much in other ways.

    The route I envision for the 800 version would not be as hard, mile for mile as the 300, so I agree with you there. By nature of the terrain, things get easier as you go north. Once you attain the Mogollon Rim, even Andrea's route follows the trail, and things roll out pretty well. The southern portion is generally more rugged.

    I'm currently liking the idea of both the 300/800 starting at the same time, and if there's snow, the highway is legit. As more trail opens up, it'll just get added, and we'll just keep track of "records" as it goes.

    People can always go back and ride Dave C's race if they wanna ride the AZT on the North Rim.

    So, who's in for 800 miles of AZT this spring!??
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    So, who's in for 800 miles of AZT this spring!??
    I think I'll try and finish the 300 first, thanks.
    You COULD do it on a geared bike, but I wouldn't reccomend it!

    Derailleurs are for failures!

  53. #53
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    On the North Rim in May 2004



    May 04

    Depending on the snow levels and when the last snow falls we could eaisily see this in early to mid May.

    Krein Wrote "Sure. If the AZT were finished we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. That's the largest factor holding back a full deal AZT race. The 700 route was a fun TT, but it doesn't deserve a title of "Arizona Trail Race" despite the fact that it could be raced now. In order to avoid further confusion, I think it's best to not hold a race on it."

    But I would like to hear from others...

    If people want to race on the route from the guide book they should. And they may well want to do it in the fall.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    So, who's in for 800 miles of AZT this spring!??
    It's on my todo list but not this spring. Prolly not any spring TBH. For the entire enchilada I'm pretty sure I'd be starting in Oct. Hitting the N Rim in April...it's gonna be white up there Maybe after my mid-May GLR attempt last year I'm gun shy? Not much you can do about deep snow.

    Besides the snow, would the park service let a biker cross the GC in the spring before the NR was open?
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh

    Besides the snow, would the park service let a biker cross the GC in the spring before the NR was open?

    As in ride the trail? No way in hell. It is perfectly legit to enter the park, however. Folks do ski and snow machine trips all winter.

    To add to the North Rim snow record: I did the KMC scouting trip on April 28th and 29th of this year. The AZT was rideable in it's entirety from 89a south. A few patches of snow to bust through, some boggy spots, but overall very nice.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Maybe after my mid-May GLR attempt last year I'm gun shy? Not much you can do about deep snow.
    True, but with the new route and the fact that the route will change as more trail gets added, the winning time per year starts to mean more than any record. So, if there's snow, take the road.

    Seems like there's maybe a 50/50 chance of making it through, and those times when there isn't snow, the spring offers quite a few advantages over fall.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairball_dh
    Besides the snow, would the park service let a biker cross the GC in the spring before the NR was open?
    Yes, definitely. Both times I crossed (fall too) the NR was not open. Same with Tim in '06.
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  57. #57
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper

    On the North Rim in May 2004
    Tim -- what day in May are these pics (roughly)...? I know you were there before the park opened. Maybe May 10ish?

    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    If people want to race on the route from the guide book they should. And they may well want to do it in the fall.
    And further legitimize it?! Who are you and what have you done with Tim?
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Yep. I should add that if you want to be uber-competitive and have not ridden any of the route before, there's no question you should get a GPS. But if you want to survive and not spend major time lost, you should be fine with the combination of tire tracks, cues, maps and a little AZT research.
    Thanks for the feedback. Chad too.

    Uber-competitive? Maybe ambiguously competitive! Things sound just as I would hope.

    To chime in with routes / detours for the long version. I like your line of thinking about letting things fall where they might with how much trail is finished, or snow blocking the route. Just run it on the best route available, and change it as a better one becomes available, or detour in a big snow year. Records are nice, but a question of who won against who else in a given year is a nice mindset too. Even on a consistent route, so many factors can affect times.

    FW

  59. #59
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    hairball_dh Wrote

    Besides the snow, would the park service let a biker cross the GC in the spring before the NR was open?


    Krein Wrote
    Tim -- what day in May are these pics (roughly)...? I know you were there before the park opened. Maybe May 10ish

    You are welcome anytime on the North Rim when the park is closed you just can't drive in. In 04 I arrived at the North Rim from Jacob Lake after riding around the Canyon. I started back North bound on the AZT just before May 15 when the park opened. As long as the park is closed you can camp for free on the North Rim in the Group Campsite right on the rim. Just find any ranger around the back country office and they will show you a working water tap and point you towards the best campsite on the rim and you may have it all to yourself I have twice.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    hairball_dh Wrote

    Besides the snow, would the park service let a biker cross the GC in the spring before the NR was open?


    .

    Nice chacos. Those things are a bit heavy IMHO for a 700 mile bike trip

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadfbrown
    Nice chacos. Those things are a bit heavy IMHO for a 700 mile bike trip
    Actually for Chacos those are a light pair they have thinner straps and just seam to weigh less than the second pair I bought. The pic thou is from my 2004 trip and if you look at the NR pics you can see that I have a front rack and a Bob trailer. What you can’t see is that I am carrying a 40+ lbs pack that has a pair of hiking boots in it. When I started the ride at the border the bike had rear rack and panniers as well no Bob at that point. Loaded with 9 days worth of food and a stove to cook it the bike weighed 75 lbs. I am not saying that this is a good way to go the Canelos were brutal with all of that weight at least Oracle Ridge was still in good shape that year. The day I rode up El Oso Road I also brought a full large size dromedary bag full of water that’s 20 more lbs. I am not saying it was smart but it was not impossible.

    Will I be carrying Crocs again this year yes are they necessary for the 300 no the 800 yes. I think Scott ended up in his Crocs when he carried across the Canyon in a day and I ended up in my Chacos half way through the second day when I did it. The first day I tried using the new bike shoes I had bought in Flag. I figured they were just broken in and my feet did feel fine all day. I only had to do 7 miles to Phantom and I had a perfectly round blood blister on the bottom of my heel from a circle cut out of the base of the shoe. I tried my thicker socks but then the shoes were too tight so Chacos it was.
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  62. #62
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    Hey Scott,

    I'm going to try and make the trip out to AZ for this one next year, so I guess you can consider this my unofficial entry, on this this unofficial thread, about this unofficial race.

    Sounds like a nice way to sample lots of good singletrack......and I kind of like the hike-a-bike stuff.

    I'll likely fly in/out of Phoenix........unless there are a few more Cali folks who want to posse up for the drive?

    I'm planning on either racing, or starting around race time and going a little further. Time and snowpack dependent.

    If I race, I definitely plan on being competitive.

    I'll be seriously gunning for the win in the rigid 3-speed sub-category, and hope to place well in both "most miles ridden doing a wheelie" and "coolest bike bags"............ but truthfully, I'd be pretty happy with just "miss cogeniality" and a finish.

    Guess I'll have to break down and get a GeePuS.

    Scott- could you whip me up a Mac compatible version of TopoFusion in your spare time?
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainboat
    "most miles ridden doing a wheelie"

    Scott- could you whip me up a Mac compatible version of TopoFusion in your spare time?
    If I'm there I'll give you a run for your money in that catagory and +1 on the mac TopoFusion
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    If I'm there I'll give you a run for your money in that catagory
    Sweet!

    Competition fires me up.........guess I better start "training"
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  65. #65
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    Jeff - welcome to the party and thanks for the laughs. Your bags rock.

    TF for Mac: maybe if I can clone myself and chain the clone to the computer while I go out and ride all the time. There are a handful of Mac TF users, though. They just run it using Parallels or one of the other PC emulation deals.

    Looks like more work on Canelo East is happening. Thought I'd post here in case any AZT racers, past or future want to help out (and gain some recon knowledge of where the trail is going to be come April 18th!).

    That being said, we will be working on the Canelo East passage
    Saturday January 12.

    We'll be meeting at the Canelo Pass trailhead, at 8:30 am. Take Hwy.
    83 South from Sonoita, towards Parker Canyon lake. After you pass
    milepost 16, the highway makes a pretty sharp left, but a dirt road
    shoots off straight ahead. Take the dirt road. If you come to a sign
    on the highway for Canelo ranger station, you've gone too far.

    Once on the dirt road, you should see a sign on the right side of the
    road that says " San Rafael Valley 8 miles ". Keep going 3 miles till
    you come to the trailhead. We'll be hiking in about 2 miles to begin
    our work, which will be a re-route to address some bad erosion, and
    add scenic value. This is a continuing part of the re-route project
    that hinged on moving a fence which forced the trail into unsuitable
    slopes. This is the first time a fence has been moved to accommodate
    the trail, join us in this history making event!
    Also, there's always need to help out on the Cienega Corridor AZT, all of which will eventually find its way into the AZT 300. Details in my signature link. Plenty of dates over the next few months.

    You would do well (for trail karma, of course!) to spend a day working on the AZT before race day. Highly recommended for AZ residents.
    Author of TopoFusion GPS Software. MTB+backpacking = bikepacking.net. Ride Diary.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Jeff - welcome to the party and thanks for the laughs. Your bags rock.

    TF for Mac: maybe if I can clone myself and chain the clone to the computer while I go out and ride all the time. There are a handful of Mac TF users, though. They just run it using Parallels or one of the other PC emulation deals.
    Scott-

    Yeah, I know I just need to spring for Virtual PC or likewise, but I was thinking that if I keep you bogged down with software requests you'll have less time to train........(the race tactics start now!).......Oh, and by the way, if you want some bags for the AZT300, let me know. I'll do some "special" stitching for you (insert evil laughter here). Glad to hear you are still digging your seat bag.
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    Poking around on the AZ Trail

    Was in AZ for work and was curious about the AZ 300 trail so poked about a bit on a couple of sections/miles.

    I learned the following lessons:

    GPS highly recommended in ATV areas and on some less traveled ST sections

    If it’s organic (lots of close encounters with plant life on the less traveled sections are guaranteed) it will try to poke/cut/stab you on the shins, knees, shoulders/arms and hands.

    If you run over it, it will try to give you a flat, even if you are carrying your bike and you brush up against just about any plant you may get a nasty sidewall flat (stans works great around the tread area, but not quite as well on the upper sidewall area), top it all off with lots of sharp rocks to take out a sidewall and… well you get the picture, the AZ desert is tough

    Oh and there is a Safeway store (can you say fresh banana’s, etc) on the 300 route in Tucson

    Box Canyon at the end of the route is fun in the day time, but ya it could be spooky at night

    Also:
    The ST coming into Tucson is really fun! Kudos to the trail builders!! (by the way locals, what is this?? 1st Picture)

    Nice ST at the end of the route (ya for about 2 whole miles, 2nd Picture)
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  68. #68
    Scott in Tucson
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    The ST coming into Tucson is really fun! Kudos to the trail builders!! (by the way what is this?? 1st Picture)
    Ah, the castle.

    One day, while laying out the trail you rode, we were approached by a guy riding a huffy that featured no less than 3, count 'em, 3, sets of bar ends. Trusty pistol on his belt, two headlamps, and enough hair to gag a hippie.

    After asking what we were up to, he nonchalantly added, "yeah, that's me up in the castle."

    And we pretty much left it at that.

    Thanks for the report, Marshal. Glad you got to see some pieces of the trail, and hope to see you in April.
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  69. #69
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    Did the last Saturday ride with SDMB and while at the saddle we were talking about the castle. Apparently there is some info at the Cave and the first answer is no you can’t go up there.

    Eventually those last 2 miles will tie into a big new section of single track coming from the Gila River. Then we won’t have to go all the way over to the Box we will be able to stay on the AZT.
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  70. #70
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well No can do.

    Unfortunately, I will once again miss the AZT-300. Geez Louis, I can't believe it's getting bumped once again. 2 months in South America was worth it though! You guys have fun out there this year!
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  71. #71
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    Most recent trail info on the AZT 300 northern section of the route done as a solo over nighter training run.

  72. #72
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    Solo over night ride

    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    Most recent trail info on the AZT 300 northern section of the route done as a solo over nighter training run.
    I likes this (copied from Chad's blog write up)
    This is a ride that any intermediate-advanced mountain biker could do, given a GPS, time (some might need more than others), and a little love for the outdoors.
    Sort of sums up my thinking on this type of riding. The ‘select few’ may go quite a bit faster but if you like being outdoors……….
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  73. #73
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    Water

    I was showing the wife the AZ 300 trail on TopoFusion and got to wondering where the best water is between Patagonia and Hwy 81? This is the part of the trail that I know the least about, anyway I seem to remember reading about a campground along this part of the route? One with regular water?
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    I was showing the wife the AZ 300 trail on TopoFusion and got to wondering where the best water is between Patagonia and Hwy 81? This is the part of the trail that I know the least about, anyway I seem to remember reading about a campground along this part of the route? One with regular water?
    The visitor center at the observatory has water, 1/2 mile off the course though. Nevertheless, you should be able to carry enough water from Patagonia to get you through Salero, Madera Canyon (which might have some water you can pump), Box, and over on to the Cienga Corridor (where there is water at a camp ground in the Colossal Cave Mtn Park). Hope that helps.

  75. #75
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    This is a good source for the AP/Boulder Segment for those that have not ridden this northern section.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    The visitor center at the observatory has water, 1/2 mile off the course though. Nevertheless, you should be able to carry enough water from Patagonia to get you through Salero, Madera Canyon (which might have some water you can pump), Box, and over on to the Cienga Corridor (where there is water at a camp ground in the Colossal Cave Mtn Park). Hope that helps.
    Thanks,
    I know about the water (and ice cream pops) at CC Mnt Park, and will google the observatory, but, so there is only a 'maybe', on route, between Patagonia and hwy 83, good to know
    Last edited by trail717; 03-10-2008 at 10:23 PM.
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  77. #77
    Scott in Tucson
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    Visitor center (whipple obsevatory) is maybe a half mile off route and is a very reliable source. Lee and I were there last week -- drinking fountains by bathrooms.

    Madera Canyon is also usually a reliable source, however Max and I found the pipe on the spigot broken on the recent RATS ride. So it's in the maybe category. There's a creek you cross right before Madera as well, but it's no guarantee, especially if we don't get any more rain.
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  78. #78
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    I believe that the campground/trailhead right after the Elephanthead singletrack has water, bathrooms, etc. We filled up there on our pre-ride of that section last year before hitting Box Canyon.

    Nevermind, missed Scott's last post. Hopefully the pipe will be fixed by then? Not holding my breath though.
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  79. #79
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    A bit of course info

    We're about 30 days from race day. It's easy to see how close the race is -- just look at the moon. It's about full now. When it gets full again.... it's time for the suffering to begin.

    I was asked how much the course (and cues) will change this year. The answer is "not much" especially for planning purposes.

    I'm still waiting / hoping that another piece of brand new AZT will get connected in time for the race. Otherwise I'd already have the cues and GPS file finalized. I will try to get an update on this connection soon. If it's looking less than guaranteed, there will be no change.

    Even if that new piece of trail is in, it won't change much. Just sweet singletrack instead of road. It might add 0.5 miles and a half hour of riding.

    There is one more change I'm debating about -- a different route in the Redington Pass area. Less graded road, less motor vehicle mayhem, more fun (jumps!) riding. Even if this route is "in", the moving time for both is almost exactly the same, and they are both about an hour long.

    So, for planning purposes the current cues and GPS should suit just fine. I'll let everyone know as soon as the GPS and cues are ready.
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    There is one more change I'm debating about -- a different route in the Redington Pass area. Less graded road, less motor vehicle mayhem, more fun (jumps!) riding. Even if this route is "in", the moving time for both is almost exactly the same, and they are both about an hour long.
    ...and consequently, less mortar rounds on Saturday for us? I remarked to you about bugs, then I took it back. Well, sitting at my desk in the warmth of my own house, I am going to say it again..... The addition of bugs would be nice too

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    ...and consequently, less mortar rounds on Saturday for us? I remarked to you about bugs, then I took it back. Well, sitting at my desk in the warmth of my own house, I am going to say it again..... The addition of bugs would be nice too
    I'll make sure someone is at Prison Camp with a camera rolling when they ask you whether you want to go up Bugs or not.

    Set the standard, Chad! If you do it (and make it to Superior) you will have pushed us to a higher standard. At that point, we'll all have to do it in '09.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein

    There is one more change I'm debating about -- a different route in the Redington Pass area. Less graded road, less motor vehicle mayhem, more fun (jumps!) riding. Even if this route is "in", the moving time for both is almost exactly the same, and they are both about an hour long.

    So, for planning purposes the current cues and GPS should suit just fine. I'll let everyone know as soon as the GPS and cues are ready.
    Scott,

    I wouldn't speak for anyone else, but these type of additions should rarely be weighed against 'time'. I've never been there, and it doesn't even sound like a contest. Add more fun always!!!

    Please consider the cues being ready within the week of the ride / race. As best you can anyway. Us luddites generally need more travel days than the high tech racers.

    Thank you again. See you soon,

    FW

  83. #83
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    Plus I'm pretty much in favor of anything that means less morter rounds.
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Plus I'm pretty much in favor of anything that means less morter rounds.
    Chris and Fred, You are both welcome to stay at my house anytime you need to during your trip. I normally do not offer accommodations to the enemy, but I will probably be drafting one or both of you guys during the race and figured that was the best way to repay you for your pull.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    Set the standard, Chad! If you do it (and make it to Superior) you will have pushed us to a higher standard. At that point, we'll all have to do it in '09.
    Done and done.

  86. #86
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    Thanks I need to figure out how i'm going to get me and my bicycle down and back. I'd prefer to drive down to AZ and stash the car at/near the end but I need to do a little research and see how long it's going to take to get down there. I'll know more soon though.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Thanks I need to figure out how i'm going to get me and my bicycle down and back. I'd prefer to drive down to AZ and stash the car at/near the end but I need to do a little research and see how long it's going to take to get down there. I'll know more soon though.
    I could wait at the end for you too I did some research and it looks like I will be only a few hours ahead of you and Fred. I will make sure to have some beer ready for both of you possibly leave the campfire going also

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    I could wait at the end for you too I did some research and it looks like I will be only a few hours ahead of you and Fred. I will make sure to have some beer ready for both of you possibly leave the campfire going also
    Please leave the ice cream a little bit away from the fire so it doesn't melt. I'll be wanting that when I stumble in
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    Don't hold yer breath?

    Hello there y'all, so I should be there this year, missed it last year and want to be there so if anyone from Colorado wants to car pool let me know, I won't be able to go till wednesday evening as I have to work, anyways looking forward to it see y'all soon Jefe

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Hello there y'all, so I should be there this year, missed it last year and want to be there so if anyone from Colorado wants to car pool let me know, I won't be able to go till wednesday evening as I have to work, anyways looking forward to it see y'all soon Jefe
    I may be able to carpool from CO and I'd likely leave wed after work as well. Email me directly if you want to go over specifics at all. We've still got time to figure that out.
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  91. #91
    Rocky Mountain High
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    This one is my 2009 goal. Post-GDR I've been hunting and I think this is it. I'm underwater this year, but I'd like to make a strong run at this next year.

    Good luck to everyone this year.



    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    We're about 30 days from race day. It's easy to see how close the race is -- just look at the moon. It's about full now. When it gets full again.... it's time for the suffering to begin.

    I was asked how much the course (and cues) will change this year. The answer is "not much" especially for planning purposes.

    I'm still waiting / hoping that another piece of brand new AZT will get connected in time for the race. Otherwise I'd already have the cues and GPS file finalized. I will try to get an update on this connection soon. If it's looking less than guaranteed, there will be no change.

    Even if that new piece of trail is in, it won't change much. Just sweet singletrack instead of road. It might add 0.5 miles and a half hour of riding.

    There is one more change I'm debating about -- a different route in the Redington Pass area. Less graded road, less motor vehicle mayhem, more fun (jumps!) riding. Even if this route is "in", the moving time for both is almost exactly the same, and they are both about an hour long.

    So, for planning purposes the current cues and GPS should suit just fine. I'll let everyone know as soon as the GPS and cues are ready.
    What have I told you about thinking?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krein
    We're about 30 days from race day.

    I'm still waiting / hoping that another piece of brand new AZT will get connected in time for the race. Otherwise I'd already have the cues and GPS file finalized. I will try to get an update on this connection soon. If it's looking less than guaranteed, there will be no change.
    Mark and I have been out running the sweco for the last three days and today we made the connection with the trail coming up from the Lakes Road. So there is a trail, more or less all the way from the Lakes thru to Sahuarita Road. I am not saying it is all sweet Single Track, the sweco does make one hell of a mess. But it is clear and brush free so that's something.
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  93. #93
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    Anyone that is planning to do the AZT 300, you are more than welcome to stay at my place before/after the race. I have talked to a few of you about the possibility of crashing at my place, but I want to give out the invitation to everyone (with the hope that you will let me draft you on Old Spanish Trail and/or drop some GU packets as you climb Lemmon). Send me a PM if interested.

  94. #94
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    share the road

    Hey anyone want to work out some carpooling/shuttling for this point to point party?
    I plan to leave Flagstaff Wednesday the 16th. I plan to start the race at 9am on the 18th and if all goes good it should take me 3 to 5 days to finish. Drop me a note if ya want to share the shuttle - tmarino @t juniper-solutions D0T C0M

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    Shuttle to start

    Looks like there is pretty good interest in a shuttle to the start. I know that Fred, Jefe, Max, Chad and myself are also all interested in leaving a vehicle at or near the finish and therefore need a good way to get down to the start.

    I up for carpooling or a paid shuttle. Chad/Max thoughts?
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Looks like there is pretty good interest in a shuttle to the start. I know that Fred, Jefe, Max, Chad and myself are also all interested in leaving a vehicle at or near the finish and therefore need a good way to get down to the start.
    I plan on being able to give 4-5 of us a ride down to the start to get dropped off. Troy, you can stay with us if you make it down to Tucson on thrs night, I am sure Max or I can get you over to the starting line come race day.
    Last edited by azepicriderandrunner; 04-02-2008 at 10:03 AM.

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    Cool on the carpool... I am gonna see how the cards fall. I may just drive to Patagonia (love that place) on Wednesday the 16th, then ride to the start. Then when I finish (fingers X) I will just hitch back south...
    Hope to see some of you at the BFL or the Circ and we could talk about our options then.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pivvay
    Looks like there is pretty good interest in a shuttle to the start. I know that Fred, Jefe, Max, Chad and myself are also all interested in leaving a vehicle at or near the finish and therefore need a good way to get down to the start.

    I up for carpooling or a paid shuttle. Chad/Max thoughts?
    I am in the same boat, need to leave a vehicle near the finish and shuttle to the start.
    I can also offer a ride down/back from Colo if anyone needs one
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail717
    I am in the same boat, need to leave a vehicle near the finish and shuttle to the start.
    I can also offer a ride down/back from Colo if anyone needs one
    Marshall,

    Jefe and I are carpooling down. Splitting gas and driving 3 ways is better than 2 if the schedules can be worked out. Maybe drop me an email and we can discuss?

    It seems (almost) everyone headed down needs a shuttle to the start so it sounds like we'll have a big old party in the cars however we do it
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  100. #100
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    If anyone wants to leave a vehicle at the the finish on the 16th just let me know and I will meet you there then get you to the start... hope fully you will be someone that hopes to finish in under 5 days (120 hrs), will carry a mobile phone and would be stoked to get me back to my truck at the start after the race...

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