24HOA Conyers, GA
So, I just saw a post on our local board that said the 24HOA at Conyers has changed the date to 10/8-9 instead of 10-15/16....no email notification whatsoever...and I'm on their distribution list for sure. Luckily for me, the date change isn't a huge deal. But, I am not sure I want to do this race anyway....the SOLO entry fee is $305 :eek: :eek: :eek: ...and may I ask why??? :confused:
What do we, as solo riders, get for a $305 entry fee that we don't get at the less expensive 24 hour races? I've raced 24HOA as a team in the past, and I did my first 24 solo this past year and paid $200...which isn't cheap either...but at least they had better prizes!
Has anyone from TwentyFourSports read this? http://forums.mtbr.com/endurance-xc-racing/survey-what-constitutes-good-24-hour-race-113404.html
How do others feel?
I just got a email from them.
Anybody have an idea why they have to change?
Another post said sorry but no refunds. That's BS when people plan in advance to the point of preregistering and then are told there is a new date and there are no refunds. What about weddings or any of a host of other preplanned things for the other weekend.
24HOA is full of it. I wouldn't give them my money if I were you.
Is it just me or...
Is it just me, or is 24 HOA starting to top everyones "You Suck List"?
Seems that way to me. This might be my last year racing their events unless they change their views on the sport...price of fees...and venue locations that are only in California and the far east coast. What about everyone else not living in California or on the East Coast.
I see a firey ball falling thru the sky at a high rate of speed!
If you paid via credit card, you might be able to get it back.
Originally Posted by jimbo
Flip the card over, call the 800 number, and give them an earful...
But as Tom Waits says "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
That sucks. Good luck.
I WAS planning to do Conyers solo this year but am having to check the date change. Yea, I was planning to suck up the cost and do the race but not b/c of Twenty Four Sports and their great race promotion -- I was ONLY planning to do it b/c it's in my back yard and I love riding / racing at Conyers.
I agree with the sentiment expressed about the 24HOA series. There are way too many other races out there that don't cost as much and you get much more in return. You would think that with the sponsors 24 HOA gets, costs should be lower an there'd be more return for ALL riders.
Here's my deal with 'em: we pay TOO much money to do the race AND we provide their labor! Are we all sick in our heads? I have done at least one enduro each month this year and have yet to do either of the above at any of them. And ya know what? I had more fun than I ever have at Conyers. That course kicks back no matter how many times you ride it and how well you know it.
I've been thinking actually of heading to Moab for the Granny Gear race. I've never ridden Moab and I figure if I'm gonna spend a butt load of cash on a race, it might as well be someplace really stinkin' cool!
Nam, what d'ya think? You, Eddie and I could head to Moab! On another note, are you doing SM100? I'm torn between that and a staying local and racing a sprint triathlon. ORAMM's sustained climbs kicked my butt and I'm not sure I'm ready for that sort of demoralizing race so soon after.
Conyers is the best course, I agree. Especially for a 24hour. We need a new promoter to come in and run a 24 there! Anyone up to it? :D
Originally Posted by k2biker
Sorry, can't make it to Moab this year. Too much going on.....and yes, we're heading to SM100. You should too. ;)
I did Southern Lights 24/7 for the first time this year and was shocked there were no manditory work assignments. Not that it is a big stretch to find a volunteer while on a team, but how can this race do so much more on a smaller budget than the 24HOA people?
Here's my deal with 'em: we pay TOO much money to do the race AND we provide their labor!
It's b/c Scott and Jimmy at SL24-7 are way cool! I've done that race since it's inception in 2003 and those guys never fail to exceed expectations. God willing, I will do that race until I die or cannot ride a bike anymore.
To clear the air! - Conyers
First let me say that it's truly unfortunate that the date has had to move to the 8/9. We unfortunately have a choice; move the event as we have done or cancel it. Riders have told us they prefer the move over cancellation.
With regards to the refund policy... NEVER have we said that a team or solo rider could not have a full refund... NEVER! For those of you out there posting faults statements you are damaging the sport... get you facts correct first.
As for the post regarding fees etc; I appreciate each individuals right to speak your mind. Please note that Granny Gears fees are substantially move than ours for example. Do your fact checking before posting. Speaking of Granny Gear... Larid Knight sued Trilife two years ago and the company was lost to bankruptcy. NOTE... he sued use for the rules for 24 hour racing... I ask the question who should control the rules? He sued us for the use of "24 Hours of _______" anything... that's right folks....
Thanks for the reponse.
I did want to clarify, that, I am looking at this from the point of a solo rider. Teams have to pay, what, roughly $100 per person for their entry. Teams of 2 have to pay $205 per person. Then you have the solos that have to pay $305 per person. And, the solo riders are not even going to get to enjoy the other parts of the event. They will either be riding around in circles or sleeping. In my opinion, there is no justification to charge the solo riders that much more than the other competitors.
And, as far as Granny Gear goes...sure their fees might be more expensive...but each year there are more and more 24 hour events and other endurance events to choose from, and most of them are not as pricey.
I thought the other thread on "What Constitutes a good 24 hour race" was a really good one for Race Promoters to read. Some good suggestions on there.
Anyway, thanks again for the response.
Yes it’s been a difficult couple of years... with the complete loss of the company that started 24 Hours of Adrenalin December 3, 2003. Since that time, after Larid Knight's (Granny Gear) lawsuit a staff of 10 lost there jobs and we are currently down to a very small staff. We had to cancel all our development events because we could no longer finance losing efforts. Our level of customer service has dropped because of a reduced staff and we are working hard to ensure fun safe events continue. Jeff you ask why no events other than California or the East Coast... 24 Hours event are popping up all over North America and I for one think this is great for you the riders. I know that we have played a very important roll in developing 24-hour events across North America and the World... I'm proud of what we have been able to accomplish.
Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
Jeff you have a very active voice in the 24-hour community and you can chose to use it in a positive or negative manor.
my commitment is too continue running positive events in the communities we are currently hosting events. It is my goal to provide event weekends welcoming all levels of riders and to work in a positive manor to assist in developing the sport as best we can.
I hope that you would wish us well,
Not The Truth!
NEVER have we said that a team or solo rider could not have a full refund... NEVER! For those of you out there posting faults statements you are damaging the sport... get you facts correct first.
Originally Posted by jimbo
From what I can see you haven't said that refunds are available either. Which is it?
Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
If refunds are available how does one go about it?
Originally Posted by wooglin
I have just been givin the heads up that this thread is out ther. I am sorry to my fellow racers who lose out when stuart changes the date of events or cancels them without thinking of the athletes. It is funny I just emailed him the other day that he was hurting himself by doing this sort of Sh*t.
As far as his answer that it was change the date or cancel, that is bull...I think he has been having such a sucky year, he changed the date because he thought he would get more riders if it was on a opposite weekend as Moab..you are really going to try to tell us, that the GA event site, changes the date on you..come on, contracts were signed along time ago, and if it did happen to be the case, where were you looking out for your riders?
24 Hours of Pisgah
You know, I started a 24 hour race last year . Wow what an eye opening experiance. I advertised and gave (even more than I advertised) all the things I thought were lacking. When I worked out a budget it cost way more than I dreamed to put on the race. Everyone wants a piece of you. You have to get around $100 bucks per person. Well this year I am doing even more than last year, down to a free party with live music for the racers after the race so they can enjoy it. I have free cabins, hot showers,darnd good entry packets. I give a hydration pack or simalar prize to racers at random when they come in. We have drawings, we have a lot of vendors, we have music. We have it all. You know If you want a quality race from someone who races themselves. Look around. Give them a chance. The Burn, Southern Lights. All good races from the little guy. Check out http://enduroadventures.com Give us a shot.
oh by the way..you do not see granny gear mentioned in a negative way inhere, by anyone execpt, twenty 4 sports.
Oh, and also for the record, I was told I could not have a refund for my 400 entry fee into worlds..the only reason I requested a refund, or entry into another 24 event, was do to the fact I am ill with mono, and will not be recovered in time to compete. I have raced at worlds 2 previous times..along with other 24 hour events of theirs, paid them thousands of bills....for him to reply to my email that people like me ruin the sport..funny I thought we were keeping him in business..
I have no problems with your events. They are first class. They are a good time. They do bring out the best in personal performace. I would never talk-down a race or race promoter unless I have a good reason. I am looking forward to World's in Whistler this year, and so are many many others. In fact I have participated in 3 of your events...24 Hours of Winter Park, '02 Worlds, '04 World's, and soon to be '05 World's. In all honesty, I would have never attended these events if it were not for sponsors footing 99.999% of the entry fee. I personally feel that your fees for solo racers is high. When I look at events around the country, they range from $35 to $150 to race at other 24 hour events. Granted you have a moving road show to haul around so I see where you need to charge more.
If I could request a few things to make your events better in my book...
1. Make the race dates. Keep the race dates.
2. Hold your events around the country...West coast, east coast, SE, Midwest, Etc. There is so much potential out there for a new crowd to draw in.
3. Lower the fees...please :rolleyes:
4. Low key is good. We don't need a circus. I will gladly pay less it helps.
I took on the challenge of puting on my own race this year. Yes, it was not near the status of the 24HOA, but I have a good idea of what you are/will go through. Can I have my entry back? Can we move the date? Why this? Why that? Etc. Etc. Etc. I got all kinds of e-mails. I do feel your pain.
Please, I beg you please, think hard and long about what you are/will do in the future. The sport at a higher level does depend on you...me...Granny Gear...racers...and all the little unknown events around the world.
prices for 24 hour events
Venue fees (stiff) porta johns, insurance, advertising (flyers,magazine ads; people need to know the date etc. even stiffer) at least a t-shirt, course marking materials, emt, trail work, web-site, entry forms, bib numbers, medals, trophys or what ever . I know I have left stuff out but this is the minimum. A cross country race is around $25 and if you do a series you will most likely stay in a motel for some, and if you are lucky and place, you might even get a pair of socks and then get to drive home. Yes the Horse Park can do what ever they want to do. A promoter is at the mercy of the venue. Without the course what do you have? Nothing.
I am only a local promoter of 24 hour events in Ontario, Canada. Event promotion is a tough business, and I've been doing this for 10 years at a local level.
I will not go into any details about my "battles" with Trilife/Twenty4 Sports, but Stuart always seems to bring up the Granny Gear lawsuit and is still playing the blame game 1.5 years later.
Stuart, you were a great marketer, but made many enemies along the way. I will say you've had a positive impact on the sport, ran some terrific events, and took 24 hour events across North America....great! Laird introduced 24 hour mtb racing and will always be the father of the sport, (I've never been to his events, but I call him from time to time....a nice guy). Start producing better events, and listening to your competitors, or do something else....period. The blame game will get you nowhere, and you've played that tune too long!
Never have I never stated that I started 24 hour racing... larid did. Producing great events is what we have been doing for years and yes these days we are challenged due to the lawsuit from Granny Gear against Trilife... the point is that he wants to own the rules and regulations to 24 hour mountain biking and if he would have won, precedence would have been set and everyone would need to pay the piper. The shear fact that you and larid spoke during the lawsuit speaks volumes. Continue putting on great events, and enjoy kicking a man when he is down.
Originally Posted by chicoracing
I just like to race my bike.
I know how hard it is to put on a "NORBA" type event, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to put on a 24 hour event especially coming all the way from the Great White North.
I appreciate the efforts you all make to give us a fun event.
Personally, I will be at Pisgah and Conyers ;) plus I did Big Bear earlier in the year.
Maybe I can come back in late Oct and give a review of all three :).
Thanks again to all you promoters for putting the races on.
Originally Posted by twenty4 sports
You scheduled an event for Hardwood last year, and changed venues a month and a half before without offering refunds. I registered a number of teams for my competing event who were really mad you wouldn't give them refunds as they didn't like your new venue - some walked away from deposits, some from full entries.
What is your refund policy for a change of date? Similar to a change of venue?
As for my use of "24 Hours of _______" - you are such a hypocrite. You tried bullying me with the same crap once.
Whenever anyone questions your pricing, or events, you tell them they are hurting the sport. This is absolutely ridiculous as you are a for profit company and are accountable to your customers.
Last year you published mistruths about my company and that didn't sit well with me at the time. From my angle the only one to blame for your business problems is you.
P.S. It wasn't all legal fees you took care of with your bankruptcy was it Stuart?
Stuarts policy regarding refunds, Qoute
For those of you who would like to believe Stuart when he says that he has never said no about refunds,I would like to bring to light an email which was sent between Stuart and I,
I have been seeking any type of refund for Worlds this year, due to the fact that I have fell ill with mono. I even suggested to just transfer my registreation to another event once I feel better. This was 2 weeks ago with the initial email.
Someone brought this forum to my attnetion last night. I did some posting and then emailed Stuart, that I had read that he said that they have never said they will not refund, and I thought that was cool, because he originally told me NO REFUND> so I said I would look forward to hearing from him concerning my refund.
I then sat down to go to bed and actually started to feel bad for him, I did post some hurtful stuff.
Then I went to my email to see if he had wrote back..keep in mind, I am a rider, who tarvels all over the country, and pay for everything myself..I do not have health insurance, and now I have big doctors bills.I need every penny I can find.
So I check my email..and he did write back..his professional response, qoute..
"Stop bothering me"
very nice. As a bussiness man, he should remember, this is not a game. His disregard to me as a customer, does not sit well.
I heard through the grape vine that the reason the staff is no longer with the 24 hrs of adrenaline is not because they were all "Let go" it is because they all quit. Couldnt put up with Stuart. All the staff last year and all the staff this year walk out.
Hummm I wonder why?????